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dedicon
2006-02-24, 09:30 AM
http://www.mastercollector.com/articles/reviews/TFclubfigure.html


I am almost sure they said his name will not be Landquake, but whatever.

And for some reason, he is a Decepticon...Why does he combine with an Autobot?

Repaint is another bleh....

Nevermore
2006-02-24, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by dedicon
I am almost sure they said his name will not be Landquake, but whatever.

The name "Landquake" was revealed by last month's edition of the club magazine, actually.

dedicon
2006-02-24, 10:02 AM
I am actually a member but i was too lazy to check...just a little moody today after failing again...


Anyway, could be, just didn't sound femiliar to what i remember reading.

Jaynz
2006-02-24, 02:04 PM
That's a whole new level of ugly...

And why are they making a combiner that 'we know' that's part Autobot and part Decepticon? Anyone know of a combiner giant, or just any giant at all, that would fit THAT bill?

Halfshell
2006-02-24, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
And why are they making a combiner that 'we know' that's part Autobot and part Decepticon? Anyone know of a combiner giant, or just any giant at all, that would fit THAT bill?

Cartoon Skyfire when he got a bit confused that time?

... no? I'm out...

Nevermore
2006-02-24, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
That's a whole new level of ugly...

And why are they making a combiner that 'we know' that's part Autobot and part Decepticon? Anyone know of a combiner giant, or just any giant at all, that would fit THAT bill?

Alvarez just said that the combiner would be a new character.

Cyclone_X
2006-02-24, 05:48 PM
is the head remolded? doesnt look like it at a first glance

Jaynz
2006-02-24, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Nevermore
Alvarez just said that the combiner would be a new character.

Hence killing more interest...

Honestly, with the tranlucency and mold choices, Computron (and his members) would have made SO much more sense... the only one you would have to fudge is afterburner.

But now we have an ugly combiner of 'no-names'of both factions (watch a Predacon be next), that combine into a giant that no one has ever previously heard of.

Over the space of a few YEARS, no less.

Anyone really going to care in 2009, when this 'special team' is done?

inflatable dalek
2006-02-24, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Anyone really going to care in 2009, when this 'special team' is done?

E-Bay sellers who can them sell the whole lot as a "Extremely limited exclusive edition"?

Nevermore
2006-02-24, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Cyclone_X
is the head remolded? doesnt look like it at a first glance

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showpost.php?p=1300852&postcount=30

As for the story of Landquake remaining a Decepticon? that will have to wait for another day. Just see how the story unfolds. When we first put out the Skyfall figure we had every intention of retooling the remaining limbs. It was a tough call to not retool Landquake, but unfortunately the cost to produce coupled with the limited quantities that are going to be made just couldn’t be justified. The reason why? When the Botcon 2005 figures were being retooled the wrong metal was used to create the new molds making those figures more expensive to produce by a substantial amount. Because of this unexpected cost, the tooling we wanted to do on Landquake was affected.

In short: The factory screwed up, Fun Publications had to cover up for it, and in the end, the Club members who won't attend BotCon are getting screwed. And to make matters worse, the story will apparently be written along just so it covers up for the mis-matching faction symbols.

I don't regret not being a member of this club, honestly.

Sir Auros
2006-02-24, 09:30 PM
Well, that's the final nail in the coffin for me, I won't be renewing unless Botcon's at a decent time, close to me, and the cost of rejoining would make a significant difference in my Botcon charges.

Denyer
2006-02-24, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Anyone really going to care in 2009 Anyone care that much now?

Serious question. I haven't seen anyone say "wow, look what I got."

Nevermore
2006-02-24, 10:14 PM
More fun news!

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showpost1301564-p91.html

Believe it or not, we were promised within the past 24 hours that the new Botcon set would have no remolds. There might be remolds available in the "at the convention" toys, but not in the box set.

EDIT:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showpost1301613-p95.html

Actualy what was said was that there were no REPAINTS within the boxset. Direct quotes:

Originally Posted by Alvarez
Landquake might not have any remolding, but the BOTCON 2006 FIGURES CERTAINLY DO!


Originally Posted by Alvarez
This years Botcon set does not use the same mold twice.


That doesn't mean the additional sets won't have a repaint or two. I interpret it as the boxset.

dedicon
2006-02-24, 11:45 PM
Well, fooled me once, shame on you, foold me twice, shame on me...

They got me for one year, they won't get me for another.

Maybe Landquake will be worth something on Ebay...

Nevermore
2006-02-25, 11:21 AM
Walky's take on it:

http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/59584.html

Denyer
2006-02-25, 12:00 PM
That unfortunately seems to cover things.

Bit of board cross-promotion, I know, but there's a lot of salient points covered in this thread:

Are you renewing your fan club membership this year?
http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1671

Including responses by the club.

inflatable dalek
2006-02-25, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Nevermore
Walky's take on it:

http://shortpacked.livejournal.com/59584.html

So there's a finincial overspill of some sort? Honestly, thsi lot make DWAS look orgonised...

Nevermore
2006-02-25, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
So there's a finincial overspill of some sort?

See my third post in this thread.

inflatable dalek
2006-02-25, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Nevermore
See my third post in this thread.

See the Walky page you linked to two of your posts ago :)

dedicon
2006-02-25, 02:08 PM
You know what? the more I read about it, and the more i check the comments Alvarez and comapany has made, the more upset i get.

I really can't figure out howcome a fanclub doesn't give a **** about the actual fans.
I remember guys hating 3H after only one of them left, but this is much much worse IMO.

My membership ends in may, I won't be renewing, but I will fight to get Landquake. Not because I like the toy, but because I deserve it according to their announcement.


After that, I really hope this club shuts down quickly ,and Hasbro will give the license to a company that deserves it.

Jaynz
2006-02-25, 02:36 PM
The club's a complete waste. I decided to give it a go (like I did with Hallit, etc...) and .. well, I've got two really crappy magazines to show for it. I cannot even log in to the web-site (nor does it seem I can even get HELP doing so), I never recieved Skyfall... I don't even WANT Landquake, etc... and, despite my initial feelings of giving the Convention a go this yea, I'm not likely to now.

The fans themselves did it better for a long, long time.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-25, 03:56 PM
The whole thing does stink... I'd recommend anyone not renewing, or unhappy with their membership, writes to Hasbro as well as MC as Denyer says*, which will probably have better results - Hasbro did bitchslap 3H as soon as they realised how many fans were unhappy with their handling of things.

As an aside it's amazing how many people are bitching about the publication of ****ty prototype photos that'll be on every board in the world for a couple of weeks, before everyone deletes them from their HD to make space for actual decent photographs of toys that aren't in an ugly block colour, and virtually no-one's mentioned the actual comic and profiles that can't be got by any numbnuts with access and a camera. That's the death of fandom as any sort of creative arena in a nutshell. Nobody gives a **** about any material which takes anything which takes any effort, just pictures of the latest unpainted monstrosity which will be warming toystore shelves in a couple of months. It's sad and disturbing, and the reason I for one just don't really care for the franchise or fandom any more.

EDIT: Beltatedly remembered to stick this in - sorry Denyer :(

dedicon
2006-02-25, 04:38 PM
Hah! Alvarez and company are saying that " at least we give you more than the last company did"....

So now I am so upset, I will review some actions and compare facts of latest years of OTFCC and Botcon compared to this FP crap...

Let us check facts shall we?

1) Botcon/OTFCC itself: The last OTFCC was said to be some sort of dissapointment. I recall it getting alot of bad feedback. BUT, at least the date was ok, if I remember correctly, it was in July or august, right? It was in summer and took some consideration to the fans who are at school/collage/university or any other educational system. Also, I don't recall the first Botcon FB made last year was so good. In fact, it got blasted as well!

2) Exlusives: Well, the exlusives of the middle year's were great. We finally had an Arcee, We had a nice repaint of Nightslash Cheetor and a very cool REPAINT OF A JAPANESE ONLY MOULD in the form of TIGERTRON. Yes they were expensive, but at least they were good enough to make us want one, and shell out the money.

They had the 2 deluxes with the same mould for 60$(or 50, i can't recall). But a) they were remoulded a bit to fit the charecters. B) the colors were good, and used the Dodge Viper original stripes for a good measure.c) They did have exlusives for hotel folks(Snustreaker) and another one they sold as Sideswipe. Again, don't have the price, but they were at least they came with an ok story, and were painted as G1 figures, so they were enough to pass for the fandom.


Oh, but they can change contaxt, say that they ment the year when only one H was left.Let us see what he was offering:

Megazarak: A very nice black repaint of Armada Megatron. I liked it, though sales show otherwise. Money wise he was 60$( Again, from what i recall. If someone could tell me prices i will be glad to update). With him, was the very infamus "Sentinel Maximus" story, but he was supposed to be sold at 60$ as well.

So one repainted ultra and a remoulded mega, both for 60. If you want them both it cost 120$. Now for the value of the New pack. The one with 4 repaints and 3 remoulds.1 of the moulds were used twice for this pack.

So Let us calculate: 1 ultra retails at 25$, 4 Deluxes retail at 40$(was the Buzzclaw mould a deluxe? let's calculate at it is) and 2 basics at 16$. 81$ worth of toys sold for more than 300$. I take 2 ultras for 120$ anyday.

Again, the G1 factor was used, and Ironhide, Ratchet and Chromia were reconfigured with moulds that fit them most. Also, a Japanese NAME also made his comeback, as Deathasorus(SP?) made his return. Though he had a remoulded head, he looks very much like RID Megatron in terms of paintjob...


As for the stuff you can buy in the convention? Ratchet(towline remould/Ironhide remould or repaint), Flamewar
and a third Arcee/Chromia repaint(Flamewar was a repaint too).
They were, as you might expect, way overpriced...



Comics:

So now we are at the comics section: 3H had like 3 editions: one was following BW, one was following BM and it's own writing and one for Universe( which I think Hasbro should've continued instead of just letting the line die cause of the lack of story). I read the BM one and it was quite good, and the Universe needed some work but it had some good ideas behind it, using the potential of the Universe idea.

The FP comics also devide into 2 sections: one is for the Botcon convention, named "Decent in to Evil" and is writted by one of the oldest and most appriciated fans, Ben Yee. Now granted, Ben is a great reviewer, and has contributed the fandom and sometimes writers and producers( he mentions BW producers wanted his help with the Autobots/Decepticons part in "The Agenda" episodes), he is not a comicbook writer. The story is not a good one, it feels very thrown out there. Like the idea was to throw all the exlusive charecters and not make a good storyline(even Ben admits he had a hard time to throw all the charecters in 20 something pages).

As for the comicbook/newsteller? Well, the story is OK, but the newsletter is boring, and not worth the 80$ i pay for being an international costumer. Think about it, 80$ for being a member who will not go to the conventions. I get news either 2 days before or 10 days after the rest. I get an 8 pages long of comics and 8 pages of some 3rd rated article every 2 months, and a bad qualety junk mail every month.

I also get "membership prices" for toys in the clubstore...it's actually retail prices at best and some discounts...2-3 dollars discounts. And the shipping? Well, Internationals always get screwed in that area, but this is too much...20-30$ for sending one Alternator??Say what??


And what does that leave us with? the toy exlusive..The FREE toy exlusive, after I payed 80$ for all that crap they give me a free mould. They promised only Skyfall will be a repaint(and what looks to be like a prototype above anything else) and the rest will be remoulds. Well guess what? the guys who made a 300$ pack used the wrong metal(probebly more expensive, as 300$ won't be enough to cover the price of the titanyum alloy they used for the repainted toys) they didn't have enough money to remould the "Free" mould. and we have to settle for another repaint again...with a story that will explain why they've left the Decepticon logo...another messup to coverup for?


They can claim 3H had more expirience, but that would be a false claim. FP had the GI JOE license for a while now, so they should know already how to do things right...


End of rant.

Cyclone_X
2006-02-26, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by dedicon
We had a nice repaint of Nightslash Cheetor

as a botcon exclusive? the only repaint I know of is last year's yellow Night Slash Cheetor

http://www.tfu.info/2001/Maximal/NightSlashCheetor/cheetor.htm
http://www.tfu.info/2005/Autobot/NSCheetor/cheetor.htm

Nevermore
2006-02-26, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Cyclone_X
as a botcon exclusive? the only repaint I know of is last year's yellow Night Slash Cheetor

http://www.tfu.info/2001/Maximal/NightSlashCheetor/cheetor.htm
http://www.tfu.info/2005/Autobot/NSCheetor/cheetor.htm

This one.
http://www.tfu.info/2002/Autobot/CatSCAN/catscan.htm

Denyer
2006-02-26, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Nobody gives a **** about any material which takes anything which takes any effort, just pictures of the latest unpainted monstrosity That's somewhat harsh considering we're finally getting comics from a company who aren't wankers.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-26, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Denyer
That's somewhat harsh considering we're finally getting comics from a company who aren't wankers.

I'm not talking about the companies that make it - IDW care more about the stories than apocrypha, as, to be fair, did DW before them.

Denyer
2006-02-26, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I'm not talking about the companies that make it Don't think I said you were -- people (fans, producers) do give a **** about creative material, the quality of that material, and generally stuff in addition to toys and protos. C'est le point.

In particular, a fair number of people who've joined the fanclub -- whilst thinking that fiction and backstory are big part of the appeal -- feel let down by the convention and club comics.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-26, 01:38 PM
Some do, yeh. But the impression I get from that thread at the time of reading is that not many do either way - it doesn't seem to be what's important. It's horrible to see a random photo of a figure getting treated like a piece of art, or a fistful of TRU computer codes like a script. More people have probably seen the proto pics of whatever ugly nightmare's coming out next for Cybertron than have read The Story of Hubcap, and that's worrying. There seems to be less fiction, art and comment out there, and more random rumours of what may or may not be the colour scheme for the Azerbaijan version of Cybertron Fudgemaster.

Denyer
2006-02-26, 02:45 PM
It's more that for years fan efforts were all there was -- there's a ton of product out there now. And plenty of people discussing comics, prospects of a movie, etc. Botcon and the club have particular attraction for toy collectors -- mostly because, let's face it, the Botcon comics have been crap and the appeal there for most is the repaints.

That the comics are even more crap now and those folks are starting to complain... well, that's worrying. At least it should be for the club.

The only reason I've read the Hubcap fic you mention is because I went and dug for stuff... TMUK don't exactly make their stuff accessible a lot of the time.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-26, 02:46 PM
Whereas Hasbro prototypes can be seen from space...

Denyer
2006-02-26, 02:48 PM
They're ubiquitous, yes.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-26, 02:55 PM
Defence and midfield? Yeh, sorry, that was unnecessarily glib.

I don't really see how a fan club like that for Transformers can ever really work... though I can't help wondering why the Collector's Club magazine et al isn't just done as a members-only section of a website. It would slice their costs, and let's be honest, it's so easy to scan something now that having the pictures avaliable online (as I say, in a members' area) wouldn't be much of a problem. They could then provide fast, accurate coverage, as well as the other content at a more sedate pace (heck, you could probably get away with putting the comic online a page at the time, as long as some sort of regular but small interval was worked out). They'd also find that more people would take problems to them instead of smearing them all over fandom.

Denyer
2006-02-26, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
They could then provide fast, accurate coverage Yeah, but that would involve knowing what was going on and work on their part -- they're not really going to compete on a news front apart from exclusives. And they're not going to compete on exclusives in this day and age, either, unless they manage to take down unmoderated newsgroups. I'm not saying it's not impolite for people to pass scans around, only that it's not realistic to build a profit model on people not sharing information.

The "comic-page-a-day" starting every month or quarter would probably work.

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
They'd also find that more people would take problems to them instead of smearing them all over fandom. Unlikely. People are taking concerns to the official club message board, but it seems threads are being locked -- possible reports of club members being banned, too (it may just be that the forums were down at the time.)

Cliffjumper
2006-02-26, 04:53 PM
Oh yeh.

Like I sort-of said before getting sidetracked with my poorly-researched dribble was I don't think fandom in general would be able to have something like this really work. In general TF fans are hard to please, and have very little idea of logistics and the like (if they'd remoulded the exclusive, I bet there'd be a stack of complaints somewhere about it just being a remould). You get enough squabbles over free services as it is, introduce money and any sort of power to some fans and you have a mess like this.

I think the idea of a Fan Club's been blown up by the internet (fan clubs/local meetups/penpals would be roughly what we'd be doing now if the internet didn't exist), and it was always going to be difficult to do anything within a realistic budget which would outstrip the free stuff that's out there. It seems to be the old 3H-thing of trying to get what they can from the license (or whatever the precise terms of agreement with Hasbro), without working out whether the thing can support itself, or is even wanted by more than completists.

I mean, if we were to take that there thread and extrapolate it into the club membership (say down 20%, FTSOA), things are only going to get worse and there'll be more "financial overspill" and late deliveries.

It basically sounds like the same problem as the Seibertron Store, with someone setting up something with good will and grand plans, before realising that it's actually going to be quite complex, and losing patience fast with the inevitable disappointed customers.

Denyer
2006-02-26, 06:15 PM
Haven't actually seen much goodwill from the Master Collector side of things, just a company trying to transfer a business model that gets along reasonably well with a fanbase in their thirties, forties and up. Plus refusal to give on scheduling or selling people the items they want.

They won't get good results out of the convention unless they hold it in convention season -- a large chunk of the fandom either has young kids they can't uproot for a day hundreds of miles away, are in education or work in education. Older fans can leave teenage kids at home, have more disposable income, can book the time for specific things, etc.

Selling the exclusives as a set has resulted in a great deal of overstock by the sound of it -- whereas if they split those and sold them through the club (not even to the general public) they'd probably clear most if not all.

It's actually the comparatively reasonable fans bitching for once.

Nevermore
2006-02-26, 08:56 PM
Savage said he wouldn't discount the BotCon set because that would "hurt its aftermarket value".

Denyer
2006-02-26, 10:10 PM
Which is a bollocks argument in itself. Fans don't buy to sell. Scalpers buy to sell. And that's money that the fan club doesn't see any extra profit from.

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 05:31 AM
I think the problem with the fan-fic is that there's so little out right now to draw good fiction from. The G1 stories are seriously played out (which is why they're getting 'reset' all the time)... the Beast Generation played out their arcs, leaving not a WHOLE lot of room for new material unless you really... really screw with things.

The Armada-verse is just so painfulyl god-awful in terms of fiction that it's damn hard to write a mature action-adventure-based set of fiction on it. Believe me, it's damn hard.. the comics couldn't do it without grabbing G1 elements again.

The other aspect is that we've got a fandom that really hates itself, and a lot of the old-guard, capable fan-fiction writers have moved on already. I'm reworking a lot of my old fan-fiction to a completely new series of stories that aren't specifically Transformers, etc...

Leaving... what, for the fan club? A hurried, non-sensical comic? Bad character descriptions? What do they work with, really?

I mean, a lot of people who really really hate me also admit they love my writing, but how many people would really want to see a bit of fiction or writing from me in the official club.

Or Raksha, to go to the extreme, even though she IS a talented writer?

Would Trixter and Walky get a draw in, or would those names ALSO alienate some of the fans? (It would, we've already been down this road).

Of course, we're talking about trying to appeal to a good base of fans, and I'm saying how difficult it is. However, the approach of 'we don't give a rat's ass about you Transformers nerds' is.. well... not exactly what I would try, either.

Nevermore
2006-02-28, 04:47 PM
Blackrock just highlighted his old old open letter to Fun Productions (http://transformingseminarian.blogspot.com/2005/11/open-letter-to-fun-productions-re.html) and Brian Savage's responses (http://transformingseminarian.blogspot.com/2005/11/responses-from-brian-savage.html) again. Is it just me, or is Savage completely dodging every single concern brought up?

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Nevermore
Blackrock just highlighted his old old open letter to Fun Productions (http://transformingseminarian.blogspot.com/2005/11/open-letter-to-fun-productions-re.html) and Brian Savage's responses (http://transformingseminarian.blogspot.com/2005/11/responses-from-brian-savage.html) again. Is it just me, or is Savage completely dodging every single concern brought up?

Savage (wait, is THAT the Savage mentioned in the other thread?) ... anyway, Savage always struck me as outright hostile to the TF fandom, but wanted to expand his 'market' from just GI Joe.

Gotta be honest, I don't think that the fandom, as nasty as it currently is (and has been for a bit) could support a 'professional' convention and fan-club even IF Savage wasn't being such a prat.

Denyer
2006-02-28, 05:23 PM
When people as reasonable and steadfastly polite as Blackrock start getting pissy, you know there are problems.

This is also telling:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=92408&page=4&pp=10

"If they're using USPS, they've likely chosen the worst possible option, "Economy" Surface Parcel Post -- for anything under 5 lb., they charge a flat $24.25."

It seems that MC don't understand international postage at all.

Pete said on these very boards that shipping Skyfall to the UK cost the fan club $16. I've never got mine to check that, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since I weighted a basic and rang the USPO and they said that's about right by air mail. They also said however, that anyone who shipped it by airmail was crazy, because airmail isn't intended for items that size - you're supposed to use Global Priority Mail, which is half the cost at $8, more reliable (well, at least better insured) and actually FASTER than air mail.

And I'm a little disappointed that a thread (elsewhere) would be locked principally for reiterating points -- provided it's not an insult match, not letting complaints fall out of public discussion is probably the only way they're likely to be addressed.

how many people would really want to see a bit of fiction or writing from meThere's always a measure of pettiness, but I think more people care about quality by this point in time than care about who wrote what. Case in point -- Furman on Beast Wars is being well-received.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-28, 05:33 PM
Exactly... I find BW a terrific read, even though I have a fairly low opinion of Furman as a person (erm, in regards to what he chooses to project... I'm sure he's basically a sound chap, but in interviews and the like the fact he's been making love with his ego for the past decade or so tends to come through a bit too much). On the other hand Bob is a totally affable chap (again from interviews), and "Rock 'n' Roll Out" is still piss-poor. It'd basically fit in nicely with my view of Furman if The Gathering was dreadful, but so far it's not been.

As Denyer (Denyer, can you please start saying "I'm Denyer" all the time, like Batman in Shortpacked! please?) said, I doubt most people are bloodyminded enough to care who writes stuff as long as it's good (if they were, well, I doubt the mentally disturbed portion of the fan club subscribers would make a large dent in membership), but then I fail to see where this suddenly turned into a name-dropping "who should write fanfic for the fanclub" thing... I mean, I mentioned fanfic, but only as an example of how stuff that takes proper thought has taken a massive backseat on the majority of Transformers sites.

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 06:04 PM
but then I fail to see where this suddenly turned into a name-dropping "who should write fanfic for the fanclub" thing... I mean, I mentioned fanfic, but only as an example of how stuff that takes proper thought has taken a massive backseat on the majority of Transformers sites. [/B]

I didn't mean to name-drop and bash. I just meant that it's getting pretty hard to push a fan-club work when there really is that much bitterness and divisiveness out there. Furman is recognized as 'above the fandom', which works for him.. but for a fan-driven work, the cliques are everything. :(

RID Scourge
2006-02-28, 06:06 PM
As far as the fiction is concerned, how much do they churn out and how often is it produced?

Given that a professional comic is about $3 (at least the last time I bought one, which was about two years ago), I'd say that they'd have to churn out a lot of material to make me feel as if they had the $40 covered, especially with the "exclusive" that was a repaint of a $5 figure, that had just arrived at my local stores a few weeks prior.

Certainly, I wouldn't expect 12-13 issues that were 20 pages each, since they're a low-production run, but if they didn't provide at least 140-150 pages of fiction, then I'd feel as if I were being millked.

Of course, I'd read it if I got it, but I wouldn't be too fussed if they were to chop off $30, and just give me the toy, as that's what I'd be in it for.

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 06:09 PM
Given that a professional comic is about $3 (at least the last time I bought one, which was about two years ago), I'd say that they'd have to churn out a lot of material to make me feel as if they had the $40 covered, especially with the "exclusive" that was a repaint of a $5 figure, that had just arrived at my local stores a few weeks prior.

Well, the WRITING could be free, if they would just be more approachable fans. I would write it just to have a publishing credit, and do it as a 'fun' project. I know quite a few other talented fans who feel the same way.

Or, hell, just free membership or something...

Denyer
2006-02-28, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
I'm sure he's basically a sound chap I do honestly think it's enthusiasm rather than considering himself the best thing since sliced bread.Originally posted by TFVanguard
Furman is recognized as 'above the fandom',Sort of. He's written more fanfic than the average person in the rest of the fandom, long before any of the revival of the past few years.

I get what you mean -- he's not a particularly active member of forums, etc.

RID Scourge
2006-02-28, 07:07 PM
That could work. I'd definitely sign up for a free fanclub, even if they didn't give me anything. I just can't see paying $40 for what amounts to straw.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-28, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Furman is recognized as 'above the fandom', which works for him..

Not really. I'd bet the number of people who dislike Furman for his pretentious and melodramatic side, and downright dislike what he did with the mythos vastly outnumber the people who'd burn their fan club subscription because someone they could well by now neither know nor care about happens to have some attachment to the thing - all of which is staggeringly irrelevant when it seems that people are largely interested in the exclusive figs and the toy magazines.

How many of you can name the writer of the fan club comics without going to look it up?

Denyer
2006-02-28, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
How many of you can name the writer of the fan club comics without going to look it up? Run Forest, run! They'll never believe your surname is a coincidence!

Ahem.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-28, 07:20 PM
It's Furman, isn't it?

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Denyer
[B]I do honestly think it's enthusiasm rather than considering himself the best thing since sliced bread.Sort of.

Well, you have to remember what the sample size we're dealing with here. How many official Transformers writers have there really been? How many were responsible for a title for months at a stretch? How many consistantly put out decent (if not stellar) work?

Simon Furman. That's it.

I do think that he looks down on the American comic-book industry, but not without some good reason. I have a hard time taking seriously the complaints of artists and writers that can't manage to be on time doing 16 pages of art a month, while demanding six-digit salaries. Since Furman was a work-horse, I can easily see him not being too thrilled (or even being arrogant about how HE works) when compared to the 'industry' around him.

He's written more fanfic than the average person in the rest of the fandom, long before any of the revival of the past few years.

Someone told me that I was the only one to beat him, in terms of raw fic.. but, his sheer volume of work impresses me.

I get what you mean -- he's not a particularly active member of forums, etc.

Right. He's not part of a clique, not looking to jockey positions in web-sites, not 'close personal friends' with certain fans, not an 'inside source', etc.

He's amiable to the fandom, but not part of it. That's a lesson I probably should have learned myself back in the day...

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 07:28 PM
Not really. I'd bet the number of people who dislike Furman for his pretentious and melodramatic side...

Maybe today, it's hard to say. I do think that Furman's been overplayed, but - like I said - he's the only really well established official Transformers writer out there.

A good comic, though, would trump the writer's name recognition any time though. Nothing's going to save the current fan comic, though - it's too disjointed, too random, and too infrequent for the page count.

And, as for someone who has YET to get an exclusive toy and can't remotely justify the insane cost of BotCon, my two comics are all I GOT for my $40.

Granted, if I were to get Skyfall and Landquake tommorow, they would be free for whoever wants them (with shipping). I've got no interest AT ALL in these yokels.

How many of you can name the writer of the fan club comics without going to look it up? [/B]

Forest Lee, wasn't it (at least the previous issue)? Granted, I've got no idea who that is, but their work in the comic has been god-awful thus far.

Edit - Quote tags

Cliffjumper
2006-02-28, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Maybe today, it's hard to say. I do think that Furman's been overplayed, but - like I said - he's the only really well established official Transformers writer out there.

Well, the first part of that sentence is rendered null and void, as it was, the last time I checked, "today", and will continue to be for the time being. We haven't got the past coming up for a while.

The basic point is Furman's name would attract both more bouqettes and brickbats than any fan "name" you'd care to mention. Actually, that's not the basic point, it was the minor segue I tried to make half a page ago. Cliques are for bitchy little girls who let things like that. This is a tiny fraction of fandom which doesn't affect anything, in the same way nobody to do with Doctor Who ever listens to anyone who bangs on about Olympiads.

Denyer
2006-02-28, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
How many consistantly put out decent (if not stellar) work?

Simon Furman. That's it. Not only did Budiansky come up with most of the foundation work, he got straight down to concepts such as the matrix. In the last few years, people have actually started to mature to the stage where they recognise his contribution before creative burnout. It doesn't hurt that more information is available about who did what.

Other official TF writers:

John Grant (let's see if any of the US members recognise him)
Mike Collins
James Hill (notably for the basis of how the Decepticons originated)
Ralph Macchio
Steve Parkhouse
Jim Salicrup
Jamie Delano

That's just early era as well. Furman is simply well-known. 'Crisis of Command' and 'State Games' in particular are both very fondly regarded by most who've had opportunity to observe.

American fans basically got Budiansky and Furman, and didn't notice the initial writers on the comics.

Originally posted by TFVanguard
He's amiable to the fandom, but not part of it.He's far more a part of the fandom than many who claim to be.

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 07:41 PM
Well, it's tough to argue about what people want most out of the club. But, honestly, in two years, will people give a crap about Skyfall and Landquake? Most fans, from what I've seen, don't give a crap now.

But a fiction collection, well done, might be the sort of things that long-term fan interests would go for - could be easily and cheaply republished and repackaged, sampled on the web-site, etc.

Obscure-character, or non-character, exclusives don't really keep the interest once the next new 'exclusive' comes along. We saw that with OTFCC already (the difference in interest between Tigatron and Cat Scan is staggering).

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Denyer
[B]Not only did Budiansky come up with most of the foundation work, he got straight down to concepts such as the matrix.

I'm not saying that they didn't contribute at all. Remember the criteria that I used. As early as issue #9, Budiansky was sorely tapped for ideas and was dong a LOT of bad work. (He had a brief improved stint.. and then utter crap.)

Most of the other authors were only around briefly, even in the UK. This isnt' a comment on their work, just on their 'sellability' as a writer. You have to be very die-hard to know some of the other names out there.

He's far more a part of the fandom than many who claim to be.

I won't argue that there's quite a few 'fans' that haven't talked about Transformers at all in ages, and indeed seem more interested in the 'fan cliques' than what they're fans of, but that's not really an issue for this thread.

I just meant that Furman wasn't mired in the fandom muck that most of the rest of us are or have been.

Denyer
2006-02-28, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
a fiction collection, well done, might be the sort of things that long-term fan interests would go for - could be easily and cheaply republished and repackaged, sampled on the web-site, etc. Well, apart from another company holding the comics license. Though I'd say that the number of people who view the fandom principally as a toy-collecting exercise far outweighs the number of people interested in comics, prose, script-format writing, etc. just as the number of people who'll passively sit down in front of a cartoon is greater than the number of people who can or will read.

I would guess that MC only have rights to publish something included as part of another publication or for purposes of conventions.

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 08:03 PM
Well, apart from another company holding the comics license

Okay, do it through them (it's called 'crossell', people!). There's other ways to pull this off, but the fan club really seems dis-interested in doing ANYTHING with other aspects of the fandom, official or not.

Though I'd say that the number of people who view the fandom principally as a toy-collecting exercise far outweighs the number of people interested in comics, prose, script-format writing, etc.

You're right there, of course, but I think a lot of people have forgotten the lessons of the 1980s. The fiction is what moves the toys. Kids don't want toys of characters that suck, and collectors will only get them to be completist.

In that regard, the club can do a lot better than they are now. If Landquake is so important, for instance, where's the webpage dedicated to him as a character, etc? Where's the Deathsaurus web page? Etc...

There's plenty of places to look for for ideas. See how well Takara's site does for new toy-characters and all that. The fan-club's stuff , by comparison, is a joke.

Edit - Confused by tags!

Denyer
2006-02-28, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Most of the other authors were only around briefly, even in the UK. [...] You have to be very die-hard to know some of the other names out there.Such as John Grant, writing fiction for Transformers until 1988. The reason I know this is because I still have the books in question, it's not that I bothered to track them down long after the fact or read around on the subject.

Originally posted by TFVanguard
Remember the criteria that I used.Which were to some degree circular and constructed to output Furman's name... however, you started off with "the only really well established official Transformers writer out there" -- which doesn't hold up well to other writers being involved for a period of several years.

It's like with Cullen and Welker. The average fan couldn't give you names, but remembers the voices -- hence the non-Furman UK stories that are highly regarded. Where writers have less exposure, a typical marketing slant is to mention other work they've done.

There's interest in Budiansky getting a crack at a modern TF story with IDW.

edit:The fiction is what moves the toys.To kids and a fair number of adult collectors, yes. This is one area in which the fan club could easily win itself some good PR. Ditto for producing profiles to go with any store exclusives that eventually materialise.

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Denyer
[B]Such as John Grant, writing fiction for Transformers until 1988. The reason I know this is because I still have the books in question, it's not that I bothered to track them down long after the fact or read around on the subject.

Right, but there's not a lot of exposure there, hence hurting his 'establishment' with the fandom. Not that I honestly think it matters much these days, the entire comics and cartoon industry desperately needs new writing staffs - even if Furman WAS a Pagan writing god, there's only so far a name can take you - particulary in a fandom that is now roughly 15 years past Furman's ... ahem... Prime.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-28, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard

Most of the other authors were only around briefly, even in the UK. This isnt' a comment on their work, just on their 'sellability' as a writer. You have to be very die-hard to know some of the other names out there.

More people now (as in "today") know who James Hill or Dan Ablett are than know who Raksha is (some, for example, Walky, are possibly better-known, but that's almost like saying Jim Lee's better known than Geoff Senior). Hell, even when I first got online and started to read TF websites, people like Raksha were dead links on Iggy Drouge's site. I'd be curious to know what you mean by "long term fan" - do you mean someone who's been into the franchise since the 1980s, or someone who was on ATT posting spoiler warnings for Beast Wars? If it's the latter, I'd seriously question how many are particularly active in fandom nowadays. Lots of the "old skool" seem to have trudged out of things like conventions having spent the past few years thoroughly immersed in petty fan politics.

I won't argue that there's quite a few 'fans' that haven't talked about Transformers at all in ages, and indeed seem more interested in the 'fan cliques' than what they're fans of, but that's not really an issue for this thread.

Then why exactly bring it up? I simply mentioned that fandom as a whole didn't seem to be doing much work that took imagination, you were the one who started going on about cliches and Regulon Metal Mongers.

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 08:25 PM
I'd be curious to know what you mean by "long term fan" - do you mean someone who's been into the franchise since the 1980s, or someone who was on ATT posting spoiler warnings for Beast Wars?

I didn't say 'long-term', just die-hard. By that I just mean someone who is going to find out information on authors, artists, and so on. Most casual fans, regardless of how long they've been around, might know Furman, might know Budiansky.. but, eh, not so much else if even them.

Then why exactly bring it up? I simply mentioned that fandom as a whole didn't seem to be doing much work that took imagination, you were the one who started going on about cliches and Regulon Metal Mongers.

I just misunderstood the intent of the post. I don't really consider fan-fiction or artwork, etc, to be any measure of a 'real' fan, since people might seriously enjoy Transformers but not have a lot of creative talent.

Denyer
2006-02-28, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
his 'establishment' with the fandom. Ah. I'm using "establishment" in the sense of being consistently paid for follow-up work by the publishing industry, which then sold.

i.e. Furman isn't the only established official writer out there who worked on Transformers, on account of not being.

"Pagan writing god" would make an excellent custom title should Furman ever drop in and want one, though.

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
More people now (as in "today") know who James Hill or Dan Ablett are than know who Raksha is (some, for example, Walky, are possibly better-known, but that's almost like saying Jim Lee's better known than Geoff Senior). Hell, even when I first got online and started to read TF websites, people like Raksha were dead links on Iggy Drouge's site.True. Long before my time, at least as far as activity goes. Willis is probably at least as well known as Senior, who hasn't been involved in comics much since his stint on Transformers -- the latter has a few thousand online fans swapping conversation (if that), the former is currently garnering far more readership.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-28, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
I didn't say 'long-term', just die-hard. By that I just mean someone who is going to find out information on authors, artists, and so on. Most casual fans, regardless of how long they've been around, might know Furman, might know Budiansky.. but, eh, not so much else if even them.

And they'll know anyone else better how? Because without something like that, that's an awe-inspiringly pointless statement. I'd actually stake my left nut that more Transformers fans have heard of Dan Ablett than of any non-commissioned fan you'd care to mention. Sure, less would know him against, say, Woody Allen or JK Rowling, but I'm severly hoping that isn't the zenith of your argument.

I just misunderstood the intent of the post. I don't really consider fan-fiction or artwork, etc, to be any measure of a 'real' fan, since people might seriously enjoy Transformers but not have a lot of creative talent.

Which is why I mentioned discussion or comment (can't remember which, can't be bothered to check) as well (for a start I can neither draw nor write fiction to any standard). My main point was that the apathy of the fan community at large has actually dissuaded many talented fans from actually bothering.

Denyer
2006-02-28, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
nor write fiction to any standard Dunno, at least you manage prose rather than than the //

CYCLONUS: Come out Autobot! My rotors will KILL you dead!
HOT SHOT: Not today i am afraid... Jolt get behind me!

// style practised (and I use the term very loosely) by those whose main exposure to fiction is movies and TV.

Cliffjumper
2006-02-28, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Denyer
CYCLONUS: Come out Autobot! My rotors will KILL you dead!
HOT SHOT: Not today i am afraid... Jolt get behind me!

I'd love to be able to write that.

If I used script prose, I might actually finish a story for one :)

Off-topic (well, like the two pages that precede, I suppose :)) I actually sat down and wrote a bit this morning before work. Wells good, writing does, which is good because I do it for me :)

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 08:48 PM
Ah. I'm using "establishment" in the sense of being consistently paid for follow-up work by the publishing industry, which then sold.[B]

Ah, I'm not quite being that strict with the definition. I'm more looking at an 'established celebrity' mindset, one with some 'name recognition'.

[B]True. Long before my time, at least as far as activity goes. Willis is probably at least as well known as Senior, who hasn't been involved in comics much since his stint on Transformers -- the latter has a few thousand online fans swapping conversation (if that), the former is currently garnering far more readership.

Walky's known for 'Shortpacked', mainly. Not so sure now if he's really known as a Transformers writer, as a lot of his fan base is more comic and toy general. (Indeed, his Batman references are more known than his TF references). He also doesn't quite have the 'pro' image to him, largely due to his medium of choice, though.

Despite that, he's quite obviously a fan, and a Shortpacked-style TF one-page comic for the fan club WOULD be a good idea. I just, sadly, don't think that either Savage would go for it, or Walky would be willing. I would like to be shown wrong, though.

Denyer
2006-02-28, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
Not so sure now if he's really known as a Transformers writer He's known as more of a writer than Senior, I would wager.

I'm more looking at an 'established celebrity' mindset, one with some 'name recognition'.As Cliffy pointed out, that's self-defining. Out of all the TF text/comic fic out there, the more an author has their name on, the more mindset they have. Nevermind that people assume that Furman wrote 'Crisis of Command' and 'State Games' and completely forget about Budiansky writing 'Warrior School'.

Give the fanbase a fresh semi-decent or decent writer, and some of it will take to them. People actually liked James McDonough's work -- if he'd been really good (and shown some originality) he'd be up there with others in terms of mindset. And he came out of nowhere; even when 'Brad Mick' was revealed as a pseudonym, people only knew he was a DW staffer. They still weren't basing their opinion of him on other TF or general comics titles he'd written.

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 08:57 PM
And they'll know anyone else better how? Because without something like that, that's an awe-inspiringly pointless statement.

I actually don't think that 'recognition' is all that important for the fan comic, and certainly not worth the expense on that scale. As I said, it seems like it would make more sense to get a talented writer from the fandom - from merits of ability - who's more likely to work 'on the cheap' just to get published by someone else.

My main point was that the apathy of the fan community at large has actually dissuaded many talented fans from actually bothering.

Apathy for the fiction that's come out in recent years (By and large, there hasn't been much out there that's worth it). I also think, speaking from personal experience, that fan-hostility is a huge part of the dissuasion. Does a fan really want to spend time on art, etc, when he's getting shat upon by his presumed audience? (I'm not the only one who's run through this, a LOT of the older writers and artists have moved on for this very reason.)

// style practised (and I use the term very loosely) by those whose main exposure to fiction is movies and TV.

For seuth! I've been dug at!

Actually, doesn't bother me. The scripts I did (which, unusually, were to draft spec) were just practice. I can easily see why people don't prefer to READ that format, though.

Denyer
2006-02-28, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by TFVanguard
For seuth! I've been dug at! Only very slightly, as I'm assuming you know what punctuation is for, etc. If you'd seen the email submissions I occasionally get... basically, new writers who haven't grasped that 'shorthand' reductions have to come from proficient use of full form, and that the style works particularly badly with fan-characters; situations in which existing characters have been reformatted; characters that are all-new to the reader, etc.

Occasionally, with a really good author -- Gaiman or Ellis good -- script can be followed as a story and you also get more out of it than you might with prose.

But anyway, we're drifting topic-wise a bit...

Originally posted by TFVanguard
t seems like it would make more sense to get a talented writer from the fandom - from merits of ability - who's more likely to work 'on the cheap' just to get published by someone else.Anyone have any background on Forest Lee? Or know if it's a pseudonym?

I haven't seen much if any unreasoning slating of fan creative works. A lot of work that doesn't generate much response at all, but that's because most of it doesn't stand out in any way. I think it's more that people are 'written-out', just as a fair number of the fandom are talked-out on old subjects and stick around for the meta.

Tell you who they could get -- the person who wrote "Courage Under Fire". Which I predictably can't find a link for, so here for anyone who hasn't read...

http://img24.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61413_pg01preview.jpg (http://img24.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61413_pg01preview.jpg) http://img134.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61418_pg02preview.jpg (http://img134.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61418_pg02preview.jpg) http://img128.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61423_pg03preview.jpg (http://img128.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61423_pg03preview.jpg) http://img107.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61428_pg04preview.jpg (http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61428_pg04preview.jpg) http://img105.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61433_pg05preview.jpg (http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61433_pg05preview.jpg) http://img44.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61439_pg06preview.jpg (http://img44.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61439_pg06preview.jpg) http://img41.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61444_pg07preview.jpg (http://img41.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61444_pg07preview.jpg) http://img107.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61449_pg08preview.jpg (http://img107.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61449_pg08preview.jpg) http://img141.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61455_pg09preview.jpg (http://img141.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61455_pg09preview.jpg) http://img105.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61460_pg10preview.jpg (http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61460_pg10preview.jpg) http://img16.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61869_pg11preview.jpg (http://img16.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61869_pg11preview.jpg) http://img46.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61876_pg12preview.jpg (http://img46.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61876_pg12preview.jpg) http://img143.imagevenue.com/loc2/th_61965_pg13preview.jpg (http://img143.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc2&image=61965_pg13preview.jpg) http://img105.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61884_pg14preview.jpg (http://img105.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61884_pg14preview.jpg) http://img139.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61889_pg15preview.jpg (http://img139.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61889_pg15preview.jpg) http://img11.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_61895_pg16preview.jpg (http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=61895_pg16preview.jpg)

Cliffjumper
2006-02-28, 09:41 PM
T'other I would have mentioned is Harry Beejan, who's one of the few fan writers I've ever read whose stuff isn't aimed squarely at one segment of TF fans and totally excluding all others.

Mind you, he seems to have been one of the ones who've sodded off.

Denyer
2006-02-28, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
whose stuff isn't aimed squarely at one segment of TF fans and totally excluding all others. The only exclusion happening is because people refuse to read stuff set in a particular continuity. There's decent cartoon universe fic out there, for example -- Rob Jung did a fair bit (http://www.electric-escape.net/tf/fanfic), or there's Mery's "Means of Persuasion (http://transformersfanfic.com/index.php?view=PublicSubmission%2FBody&categoryType=library&publicsubmission_id=2463)" IIRC, which is a blend continuity.

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 10:00 PM
Occasionally, with a really good author -- Gaiman or Ellis good -- script can be followed as a story and you also get more out of it than you might with prose.

If done right. It's tricky, though. Draft form is easily the best, since you can still describe the scene and new characters as you need them. Director's form is solidly not an entertaining read, though it will discipline you in story structure.

Maybe I should dust off those Alternator fics and finally finish the three-parter... but, yes, that's off-topics.

I think it's more that people are 'written-out', just as a fair number of the fandom are talked-out on old subjects and stick around for the meta.

There is a lot of 'it's been done'. Also, as I said, a lot of the new material just isn't all that inspiring to get a lot of fan-fiction done. The last good source of fan-fiction extensions (on its own) would probably be RID.

Tell you who they could get -- the person who wrote "Courage Under Fire".

A lot of Allspark characters, but I'm not sure who the main author is of the bunch. Beamer, maybe? I dunno. I recognize them all, though.

Definately the sort of thing that SHOULD be in the mag.

Nevermore
2006-02-28, 10:03 PM
Ooh, look, Defunct and Beamer. :)

Jaynz
2006-02-28, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Nevermore
Ooh, look, Defunct and Beamer. :)

And yet no Nevermore. What would your namesake be? A black and purple repaint of Energon Divebomb? A horde of Nevermore drones... would explain how he gets news on all those boards..

Ahem.. anyway...

Nevermore
2006-02-28, 11:08 PM
Eh, it's a little known fact that I took my online moniker from an obscure song (http://www.queenwords.com/lyrics/songs/sng02_08.shtml) from my favorite Queen album (http://213.159.8.214/qph/albums/queen/q02qiigercdback.jpg). :)

If I had to chose, I'd like my TF counterpart to look somewhere close to this (http://www.tfu.info/2003/Cybertron/BlackBumblebee/bumblebee.htm) (toy head design!). :)

Cliffjumper
2006-03-01, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Nevermore
favorite Queen album (http://213.159.8.214/qph/albums/queen/q02qiigercdback.jpg). :)

Innuendo > Queen II :p (and note how good I'm being in not going all partisan and siding with Hot Space; I'm open-minded with music. Well, maybe. Well, not at all)

What? It's as on topic as the last few pages ;) :p

Denyer
2006-03-01, 12:56 PM
Fiction/writers for the club magazine is fairly on-topic.

Cliffjumper
2006-03-01, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Denyer
Fiction/writers for the club magazine is fairly on-topic.

Yeh, alright, alright, no need to bring fact and logic into things.

Nevermore
2006-03-01, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Innuendo > Queen II :p (and note how good I'm being in not going all partisan and siding with Hot Space; I'm open-minded with music. Well, maybe. Well, not at all)

"Innuendo" is the best album from the "late" Queen era, but early Queen surpassed that by far. Queen II > A Night at the Opera > Queen > Innuendo would be my own rating.

"Hot Space" isn't THAT bad, actually. It's got some really crappy songs on the A side (though I do like "Back Chat"), but the B side has some decent stuff on it ("Put Out the Fire", "Las Palabras de Amor" and of course "Under Pressure").

Nevermore
2006-03-03, 08:26 PM
On topic:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showpost1307907-p61.html

- When asked about why Landquake was not remolded

I have answered that, never said people people would not care, I just did not realize it would create such a stir and once the decision was made the focus shifted to other projects. Just to clarify, once and for all, it was a mistake on my part to post that futures club give-aways would have new heads. While that was the intent, it was never a certainity within FP, and from my conversations I took it that it was. My error and I apologize for that.

Jaynz
2006-03-04, 12:34 AM
Did that make sense... seems like part lie, part backtracking, part misleading, topped with an apology? :P

Denyer
2006-03-14, 11:28 PM
Reminder: apparently tomorrow (15th) is the deadline for renewing membership in order to get the Landquake figure.

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=93996