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inflatable dalek
2007-07-06, 02:06 PM
Is out right now boys and girls.

I hadn't realised it was out so soon (yay for my amazing mod powers failing me so soon). I haven't read it yet, but it feels very light compared to Galvatron...

zigzagger
2007-07-06, 02:47 PM
I knew about it being out......it must have slipped my mind for a moment :glance:

inflatable dalek
2007-07-06, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by zigzagger
I knew about it being out......it must have slipped my mind for a moment :glance:

We both must have been in denile. There's no excuse for me not being aware Galvatron was out though...

inflatable dalek
2007-07-06, 03:07 PM
And now I've read it. Good grief, it's stageringly bad. Really, really stageringly bad.

And why is Megatron speaking with an Autobot speechbubble? Confused the hell out of me as to who was atacking the NA's. Mind, the Autobots are speaking with strange blue hued bubble that aren't right for either side. Optimus calling Wheeljack "Jack" is probably the lowpoint of the entire history of comics.

On the plus side, it doesn't seem to fit into IDW continuity all that well after all.

MegatronIDW
2007-07-08, 09:50 AM
If by "All that well" you mean NOT AT ALL, then yes, you're right. I mean really, why would Verity have trouble believing in an invasion of Giant robots when she lives on an earth that regularly faces alien invasions, mutants, killer robots called Sentinels and power mad supervillains? There is NO way this can fit into regular IDW continuity...and thank god for that, because it ****. It's even got the obligatory "Heroic misunderstanding" fight scene at the end, which will probably take up all of issue two. Jesus christ, what a waste of paper.

inflatable dalek
2007-07-09, 07:05 PM
There's still chance for the "everyone agrees never to mention it again/amnesia" ending though.

BlueFlame
2007-07-10, 06:33 AM
I loved it. Don't follow the IDW comics, so all I really care about is it being in continuity with the MU, which it is.

YAY! Can't wait for number 2
________
Vaporizer-info.com (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

inflatable dalek
2007-07-10, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by BlueFlame
I loved it. Don't follow the IDW comics, so all I really care about is it being in continuity with the MU, which it is.

So as this is set a while before Civil War have the New Avengers at any point mentioned their exciting battle with Outer Space Robot People?

chiasaur11
2007-07-11, 12:13 AM
No, Tony has his Illuminati buddies erase everyone's memory for no real reason.

But he's right, Honest.

Commander Shockwav
2007-07-14, 02:34 AM
Got it. Nice to see that IDW got their logo on the cover.

Anyway, the story was okay. Just seeing Megatron and Spiderman together again in the same comic was the highpoint for me, striking that nostalgic chord I like to have stroked.

Of course, we know already what each issue will feature. First, the good guys will battle the good guys, then get to know each other and say "Okay then", and then the good guys will battle the bad guys right after the bad guys have already battled each other. Finally, by the last issue, they have figured out who should be battling who in that final climatic battle.

That's usually how these crossovers go, but you know, it's for fun the way I see it. I take it all as lighthearted entertainment and won't scrutinize this kind of series the way I do the good stuff.

Art was good human-wise. Bot-wise, eh.

A "B-". I'll be getting the whole series.

inflatable dalek
2007-07-21, 02:41 PM
The New Avengers Transformers: Man And Machine Issue 1 of 4
by Inflatable Dalek.

Writer: Stuart Moore.
Penciler: Tyler Kirkham.
Inker: Sal Regla.
Colourist: Annette Kwok.
Letterer: Todd Klien.
Cover Artists: Jim Cheung, Mark Morales and Justin Ponsor.
Production: Rick Ginter.
Asst. Editor: Alejandro Arbona.
Editor: Bill Roseman.

Synopsis:
A team of New Avengers lead by Captain America have been dropped by SHIELD into Latveria in order to both investigate an structure emitting strange readings and to find out why dictator Doctor Doom is suddenly bombing the neighbouring country of Symkaria. As they have just become a nuclear power it's vital the New Avengers stop hostilities escalating before all out war breaks out.

Outside the strange building they find numerous destroyed Doombots. Quickly breaking in through a crack Wolverine makes in the wall, the team is strangely on edge and can't stop arguing with each other. Suddenly they are forcibly scanned, and a black car zooms past and grabs Spider-Man. Withdrawing back outside, Captain America calls in help from Falcon and Miss. Marvel.

Elsewhere, strange creatures hidden in shadow debate what is happening, explaining that a machine is being used to make the humans in the two neighbouring nations more aggressive, and it's already working on the Super-Hero's.

Spider-Man comes to find himself on a operating table, where Megatron informs him that the arachnid will help the Decepticons achieve their greatest triumph.

Outside an argument between the Captain and Wolverine is interrupted by the arrival of the Autobots (for the mysterious shadow beings were they). Optimus Prime tries to explain that the situation is a problem the Autobots must solve, but the aggression inducer has left little reason in the humans and they launch a attack on the giant robots...

Characters Featured: Wolverine, Captain America, Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Doombots (deceased), Director Hill, Runabout, Wheeljack, Optimus Prime, Jazz, Prowl, Falcon, Ms. Marvel, Megatron, Bumblebee, Ratchet.
Notes: For the Transformers this purports to take place between Infiltration and Escalation, whilst it's between Breakout and Sentry for the Marvel hero's. All the pre-publicity has emphasised that this is "canon" for both franchises, but at the moment this seems... dubious. For starters it looks like overkill on Megatron's part to be setting up both the aggression plot seen here and the facsimile business we see in Escalation at the same time. Also there doesn't seem to have been any contact between the Autobots and Decepticons between the two mini's. Prime's attitude towards Earth authorities is also drastically different here. Compare how he attempts to explain himself and his mission to Captain America to his attitude of keeping the humans out of it even when they're next to the fighting in Escalation. Not to mention on a more general note, Verity's initial refusal to believe in aliens in Infiltration seems silly if they're supposed to be living in the Marvel Universe where there's buggers of the things. This isn't going in goofs yet as it's early days yet and they may well come up with a contrived way of tying it all together, but if they don't expect this paragraph to be referenced latter (but till them these reviews will be assuming this is set in the main IDW Universe). There's no mention of placement within the issue itself. And speaking of canon: Spider-Man previously meet the Marvel version of the Transformers in US#3. This is being ignored here due to the different continuities (apparently the main Spider-Man comics ret-coned the meeting out some time ago anyway, with Peter Parker claiming he's never been to Oregon in one issue). At one point Captain America claims not to recognise the type of jet making the raids on Symkaria, so despite the blue colour scheme it's presumably not supposed to be Thundercracker who's already in his Earth mode by this point. Where each New Avenger first appears we get a box giving their name, secret identity and special powers, the Autobots just get a name box (whilst Megatron has to introduce himself). The introductory text page uses the silver version of the Autobot logo from the 2007 Movie posters.

Both Symkaria and Latveria are stock made up countries from the Marvel Universe. The (so far off-screen) involvement of Latveria's dictator Doctor Doom is presumably due to his presence in the Fantastic 4 sequel, effectively tying this comic into two of the Summers big Movies. Stuart Moore's most recognisable writing credit is probably for Justice League Adventures. This is the first Transformers title to be published by Marvel since issue 12 of the Generation 2 comic back in 1994. IDW also get their logo on the cover and a thanks on the credits page, but don't seem to have actually been involved in the production of the comic beyond giving some advice on how it can tie into their own titles.

Quote Unquote:

Luke Cage: Doom's Robot army. Someone did a full drive-by on 'em...
Spider-Man: in their own 'Hood. What? I can talk "Street".

Wolverine: That's the second time [Captain America's] told me to shut up. If it happens a third time we've got a problem.

Megatron: Merely a crude prototype... But sufficient to reduce all humans in the vicinity to the mindless clawing animals you truly are.

Goofs:

S.H.I.E.L.D's cunning plant to stop the war: Have the New Avengers walk around a strange building in Latveria on the off-chance Doctor Doom is in it. Why not just have them blow up the base launching the jets?

When we have the group shot of the Autobots in shadow, Jazz is taller than Optimus Prime.

On one panel Prime claims that what they're seeing is a new tactic for Megatron. then Prowl claims "He's right, it's their usual strategy".

The Autobots have blue framed speech bubbles, in Infiltration they were red. Which is what Megatron has here despite the Decepticons having purple ones in the first IDW comic. Mind, they'd dropped the colours by Escalation, so perhaps there's a exciting missing adventure where everyone’s voice changes and this is in the middle of it.

Wolverine's reaction upon hearing a voice coming from a cab is to shout "A talking truck!", rather than just assuming there's a microphone relaying the words of the person inside.

Why doesn't Prime just have his Silumucrum talk for him rather than reveal himself? He could probably make it in the form of a US General and order the Avengers out of there.

On the splash page the Autobots have Jimmy Hill chins. And Ratchet is the only one bothering to look at the Avengers, everyone else is staring off in different directions. Even Prime, who's doing the talking, seems to be looking behind them.

Review:
Avengers Attack!.

The bulk of crossovers comics involving Transformers-mostly with GI Joe- are staggeringly bad. Ancient Relics is fun, the last two Devil's Due Joe crossovers have been entertainingly daft but the rest are as entertaining as a Jodie Marsh reality show. Sadly Man and Machine does not buck this trend.

Plot wise it's identical to 98% of these crossovers, the hero's meet and have a misunderstanding and fight (before no doubt realising their mistake next issue). Deeply dull and padded out with a uninteresting sequence of the Avengers wandering down a hall of mirrors whist Spider-Man talks like a cock. Hopefully Megatron will dissect him before they can rescue him.

Art wise things are very mediocre, as well as the odd chins the Autobots are sprouting Wolverine seems to have borrowed J-Lo's arse, whilst Optimus Prime is doing a Pat Lee pose on the splash page. Tellingly the pre-publicity has focused more on the cover artists than the chap actually drawing the comic, with good reason it would seem.

All in all, the rubishness of this can be summed up by Prime calling Wheeljack "'Jack" at one point. Frankly a crossover with Steed and Mrs. Peel would have been more fun...

[two out of five]

Halfshell
2007-07-21, 02:45 PM
What's Megatron's alt mode? Or what does his robot mode infer it to be?

Just running on the "set between Infiltration and Escalation" thing.

No Jessica Jones in it? It can **** right off, then.

inflatable dalek
2007-07-21, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Brendocon
What's Megatron's alt mode? Or what does his robot mode infer it to be?

Just running on the "set between Infiltration and Escalation" thing.


You don't actually get a full body shot of Megatron so it's hard to tell. He does have that grey tube thing on his shoulder, but I can't remember if it was there in his Cybertronian mode as well. yay me and my fantastic research.

StoneCold Skywarp
2007-07-24, 11:23 AM
Review's up.

Hull
2007-07-25, 07:06 PM
I also thought it was terrible. So far the covers I've seen look pretty great, but I really wished they'd worried a little less about attempting some sort of continuity and just focused on making a good, original story. As it is now, I don't think I'll pick up issue #2.

Zeeks
2007-07-26, 05:51 PM
I truly look forward to what the revelation of Doom's role in this is going to be.

Zeeks
2007-07-27, 03:03 AM
Actually, if it is possible, I would like to add a few points to my esteemed Dalek's review inasmuch as Doom is concerned:

1. The Doombots that were slaughtered were not the ordinary run-of-the-mill Doombots- these were the identical replicas of Doom himself, and their heirarchy is in the upper guard of Castle Doom. This basically means one thing: If Doom rolled out the big guns, something huge is going down.

2. In an interview with Toy Fare, Stuart Moore stated that, in terms of the Marvel Time Line, these events were to occur pre-Civil War. If that is the case, it could be possible that they goofed because prior to Civil War, Doom was still locked in hell courtesy of the bumbling Richards Family. It was not until he heard the call of Thor's Hammer that he broke free (full story in the "Road to Civil War" issue of the Fantastic Four), however, when that exact moment came, it is not specifically known.

chiasaur11
2007-07-27, 04:54 PM
Eh, Doom-like Doombots aren't that special. Every single time he invites Richards over: those doombots.

Don't want to deal with solicitors: Those Doombot.

Face it, that kinda doombot is lucky if it lasts a week.

Zeeks
2007-07-30, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by chiasaur11
Eh, Doom-like Doombots aren't that special. Every single time he invites Richards over: those doombots.

Don't want to deal with solicitors: Those Doombot.

Face it, that kinda doombot is lucky if it lasts a week.

You sound awful sure of yourself. I know my facts, because they are backed up by 45 years of written history. Care to place a wager?

chiasaur11
2007-07-31, 03:16 AM
I, of course exaggerated for comic purposes, and they are the top rank.(except maybe the giant ones in marvel megamorphs)

However, they still show up every time doom fights the FF and blow up and if not "Doom" turns out to be a doombot.

He even uses 'em in plots way below his level (according to him).

If you doubt, check out the Simonson run's first arc. He uses one just to play a prank on Richards.

Not that big a deal they're being used.

zigzagger
2007-08-07, 06:16 AM
Your all purpose New Avengers/Transformers #2 discussion/reactions thread.

The crossover continues this week. Place your praise and revilement here.

Zeeks
2007-08-08, 07:44 PM
THE NEW AVENGERS/TRANSFORMERS: MAN AND MACHINE #2 OF 4
THE DOOM REVIEW BY KREMZEEK75

Issue Review:
Well, well- looks like Moore upped the ante a bit by leaking in some crucial information regarding the story itself- Seems Megatron and Co. discovered and subsequently stole Dr. Doom’s mind controlling Psycho-Prism, which now permits the Decepticons to absorb the anomalies present in the physiology of the Avengers. Surprise! Prime and the Avengers have to stop them.

It seems history does indeed repeat itself as Dalek mentioned in his review of the first issue- man and machine meet, squabble, then side with one another to conquer the opposition. However, those that make up the sides are not who you would normally think- The last notable time Doom teamed up with “the good guys” was during the Onslaught crisis in the Marvel Universe. But in true Doom fashion, there is something else going on here- Doom just up and leaves to find a diplomatic solution with the country of Symkaria, which was pitted against Latveria by Megatron using the Psycho Prism.

The alliances are uneasy at best- I was quite shocked to hear Prime utter “Autobots- standard human containment techniques- no killing… unless absolutely necessary.” I never thought in my wildest dreams that Prime had the faintest inkling of that kind of brutality, I mean, didn’t we all grow up with Prime protecting humans no matter what the cost? I.E. remember the episode of Megatron’s Master Plan where the Autobots were set up and likewise deported due to a plan concocted by Mayor Sean Burger and Megatron? Even in the very end, he never had a single thought of retribution against the Humans who left the Autobots in the dust. In terms of actual dialogue, the issue is mainly carried by the Avengers with a few speech bubbles thrown in by the Autobots, particularly Ratchet. The main Transformers dialogue is all from Megatron, who is siphoning Spiderman’s blood molecules and placing his anomalous power within the Decepticons. Of course, it is mostly along the lines of “We are superior, We will rule the Universe, all will fall to me, blah blah blah” and in true Spiderman fashion, a couple of wise-cracks are thrown in to offset the “seriousness” of Megatron’s usual power speech.

On the Avengers side of things, Captain America is still carrying the team leadership quite nicely. Wolverine is still an animal. And the last page appearance by Iron Man was a nice twist- definitely not your usual Iron Man visage. Ms. Marvel throws a fit about Ratchet implanting a counter active device to the Psycho-Prism, which seemed to be more important at viewing versus the actual interaction between man and machine. The last page does promise something better to come, though- my anticipation of the next issue is high.

Notes:
Since I’m the resident Latverian Authority at the Archive, my concentration on this review is pure Doom. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Transformers, but my allegiance is with the Marvel Universe and Doom himself. Moore captured Doom in all his glory- the Ego, the speech pattern of always including his own name in his dialogue, his superiority over enemy and ally alike, and the honor that Doom holds personally for his own country. Make no mistake- no one is going to harm a single hair on a Latverian without being scalped entirely by Doom. When I saw the subduing of Wolverine by Doom, it showed his mastery of cunning and logic in mastering the Animalistic tendencies of everyone’s beloved Pin Up boy for Marvel. And of course, the Ego- “You may now give thanks… to Doom.” Fact of the matter is: Doom is important to the story and the Universe itself, even if he needs to toot his own horn once in a while. If he had not explained the entire mess to both the Avengers and the Autobots, they would still be beating each other over the head with severed limbs due to the madness implanted by the Psycho-Prism. The one thing that bothers me about this is the sudden retreat to find “diplomatic solutions”- I’m worried about that because if it turns out that Doom is actually aiding the Decepticons, that would totally destroy his honor in the story. OR (and I truly hope this is the case) he’s going to come up with something that will turn the tide in the Autobots’/Avengers’ favor.

Zeeks’ favorite quote:
Wolverine: “Seems like all you want is for us to do your dirty work!”
Doom: “Very perceptive, mutant. What else are one’s lesser for?”

Zeeks’ wishes for something better:
I prefer the Autobots talk for themselves instead of using their Silumucrums, which they used throughout the second half of the issue.
When Megatron reveals his whole plan is to just destroy the Avengers, I was kind of let down. Since when did one as great as Megatron ever really care about the puny Earth Creatures?

This issue gets 3 1/2 doombots out of 5.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/kremzeek/Signatures/3andahalfdoombots.jpg

zigzagger
2007-08-09, 12:13 AM
So, is this the review you wanted me to look over?

Zeeks
2007-08-09, 01:11 AM
Sure. This could be in addition to something more TF based.

zigzagger
2007-08-09, 01:20 AM
I personally don't think it has to be. I think it would be fun presenting it as a Doom perspective towards the events in the book. Perhaps special note could be made, assuming that's what you were going for (I was initially under the impression that was what you wanted to do)

Zeeks
2007-08-09, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by zigzagger
I personally don't think it has to be. I think it would be fun presenting it as a Doom perspective towards the events in the book. Perhaps special note could be made, assuming that's what you were going for (I was initially under the impression that was what you wanted to do)

Absolutely. Sounds like a plan. :cool:

Aardvark
2007-08-09, 05:38 PM
Right the mystery ‘Con as seen in this thread ( http://tfarchive.com/community/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39868) is:


Hey guys -- Stuart Moore here, writer of NEW AVENGERS/TRANSFORMERS and the RAMJET SPOTLIGHT. I think I can clear up some of the Decepticon-fusion...

The "new" character introduced in the miniseries is indeed Ramjet, who spins off into his own Spotlight right afterward. The "supposedly new" character seen in the preliminary, uncorrected preview pages to issue #2 was actually an art mistake! It's Thundercracker, and he's been corrected for the final book, which goes on sale tomorrow.

Hope that helps. Though I did enjoy the speculation...! (http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?t=2259&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30)

Halfshell
2007-08-09, 05:44 PM
So they not only drew completely the wrong character, but made up an entirely new design in the process?

It's like the original cartoon all over again...

inflatable dalek
2007-08-09, 05:51 PM
All those wasted hours of speculation on a cock-up.

Aardvark
2007-08-09, 06:03 PM
I'm sure the E-Hobby guys will be delighted with this.

I actually read both issues in my local comic place today (No way am I paying for this -- though believe me, I am "paying for it"). My initial thoughts were:

Why is this in any shape or form in-continuity? Why does the artist choose to ignore the established IDW designs? Is Wolverine meant to be “super-deformed” on the cover? Granted this is his first IDW appearance, but why did he use Ramjet’s toy design too? He looks utterly ridiculous. Why did I read this when I knew it would do nothing but make me think the aforementioned thoughts? No offense intended. : )

Halfshell
2007-08-09, 06:07 PM
My initial thoughts about this crossover were "well, it makes a change from GI Joe." But having read the majority of reactions, it seems the spirit has been retained.

Which toy design have they used for Rammers? I noticed the Spotlight cover is essentially his Classics toy, which was nice...

Aardvark
2007-08-09, 06:14 PM
He's got the bug-eyed 1985 seeker look going on. 'Course, Musso's doing the Spotlight issue -- though as stated, Moore retains writing duties.

Halfshell
2007-08-09, 06:23 PM
See, I never got the point of them stressing that a Spotlight would feature a "new" character. I mean with the exception of Prime, all the blighters have been introductory issues... unless I'm missing something, of course...

Aardvark
2007-08-09, 06:32 PM
I think the point that they were stressing was that a new character would debut in the crossover -- probably in a "This is 100% canon and isn't going to be forgotten about" kind of way. God, I'm still clinging to the hope that that isn't the case.

inflatable dalek
2007-08-09, 08:06 PM
To be fair, Ramjet probably looks odd because of having to to photoshop him in over a character who- sespite supposedly being based on a repaint of the same toy- looks nothing like him. I can't wait to read this tomorow now...

inflatable dalek
2007-08-10, 02:22 PM
I have to apologise to the writter- I'd misread that quote to mean that they'd drawn Thundercracker instead of Ramjet and still gotten him wrong. In fact it is Crackery, and has been corrected as such in the comic. So only a 100% cock up instead of a 278% one. Could the original page go on the site somewhere? In the Misc section mayhaps?

Anyway, the stupidist things about this issue:

The plane Captain America didn't recognise the make of last issue was Thundercracker. Who already had his Earth mode at this point. So did the Cap not brush up on his Ladybird Book Of Modern Planes?

Ramjet's amazing appearence- being told to go stand in another room. Love the fact that Megatron berates him for wanting to replace him, even though he's the only Decepticon in this issue that hasn't tried to **** him one yet. He's also left his cone at home.

Wolverine and Nick Cage geting PWND by Bumblebee's hologram.

The amazing science- putting mutant spider power in an advanced outer space robot person makes their guns fire real good.

Stark seemingly having been monitoring the situation for a while but not bothering to tell his team mates about the agro beam. Same goes for him never bothering to mention he's known about the giant robots for a while.

The Avengers generally being so stupid as to be dribling into a corner. Ms. Marvel gets beaten by an airbag.

And sorry Zeeks, but Dr. Doom's appearence was pants as well. Basically turns up, seemingly on foot, makes a token "I also have a movie out this summer" appearence and then wanders of. On foot. To go to another country. Full of people who want to kill him.

Halfshell
2007-08-10, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
The plane Captain America didn't recognise the make of last issue was Thundercracker. Who already had his Earth mode at this point. So did the Cap not brush up on his Ladybird Book Of Modern Planes?

I was about to say that it also means he, shockingly, hasn't seen Top Gun. But it'll be the IDW redesigns, won't it? Which renders my point moot.

inflatable dalek
2007-08-10, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Brendocon
I was about to say that it also means he, shockingly, hasn't seen Top Gun. But it'll be the IDW redesigns, won't it? Which renders my point moot.

Well, it's a bit odd. The Autobots look like the IDW versions (and use the Silumucrums we know and love), but the seekers seem to be based on the original toys, hence Ramjet having his cone down.

Halfshell
2007-08-10, 03:02 PM
Actually, now that I think about it, Top Gun probably doesn't exist in the TF universe, seeing as there's a TF toy in it.

Explained!

inflatable dalek
2007-08-10, 03:08 PM
So what was Captain America- a guy who frequently hangs out with the armed forces- doing in the 80's that ment he never saw an F15?

Oh, and I'm not really sure why Megatron's bothering with Spidey-power when he has the Ore-13 to do the same effect. Nor why he gives it to the other Decepticons whilst he's latter very careful to keep the Ore-13 to himself. Nor why the Autobots are surprised when super-powered Decepticons attack them when they know about the Ore-13.

hey, perhaps it isn't canon after all?

Halfshell
2007-08-10, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
So what was Captain America- a guy who frequently hangs out with the armed forces- doing in the 80's that ment he never saw an F15?

Probably beating up Johnny Foreigner for daring to be different. And eating lots of apple pie.

I'm not bothered that he's never seen an F15, I was just concerned that he'd apparently never seen Top Gun.

inflatable dalek
2007-08-10, 03:15 PM
Ahhh, I get you now. Never having seen Top Gun myself I didn't realise it had a Transformer toy in it and assumed you ment Cap should recognise Thundercracker because of the planes in that film.

Reading this comic has affected my IQ.

Halfshell
2007-08-10, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
Ahhh, I get you now. Never having seen Top Gun myself I didn't realise it had a Transformer toy in it and assumed you ment Cap should recognise Thundercracker because of the planes in that film.


Uhm... I did.

It goes like this:

- Regardless of plane knowledge, everybody has seen Top Gun. And if they haven't, they should. As such, no right minded individual should see that type of jet and think "it's no configuration I've ever seen before!" Because the film is full of them (and they're greenish, like MP Starscream)

- But Top Gun features a brief cameo from a Starscream toy (see, Goose's son has a plane that's the same as the one his dad flies in). Which means that Top Gun can't exist in the TF universe.

- Therefore Cap is just not up on his planes.

Because you don't need to have an indepth knowledge of aeronautics to recognise Thundercracker's alt form. You just need to be familiar with cheesetastic 80s movies.

inflatable dalek
2007-08-10, 03:32 PM
Legend and Days of Thunder are the only 80's Cruise films I've actually watched. And the latter only in the hope Nicole would get them out.

Come to that, I don't think any of my family has ever sat through more that ten minuets of ToP Gun without setting fire to something...

Halfshell
2007-08-10, 03:37 PM
Far as I can remember, Top Gun and Days of Thunder are essentially the exact same film anyway.

TG should be watched with your attention on Goose as the star.

Zeeks
2007-08-10, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by inflatable dalek

And sorry Zeeks, but Dr. Doom's appearence was pants as well. Basically turns up, seemingly on foot, makes a token "I also have a movie out this summer" appearence and then wanders of. On foot. To go to another country. Full of people who want to kill him.
But of course, my silvery round friend. Adds to the intrigue of the character. Doom has so many mechanations at his disposal-and yet he wanders off afoot. Why is this? Hopefully we will find out if Moore is going to make these circumstances a significant part of the plot. Maybe it will just turn out to be a Doombot (I hope that's not the case). You are absolutely correct: that move *is* highly unorthodox for one such as Doom, which leads me to believe that there is something more going on here.

And, yes, I'm sure that his inclusion in the story was to help the character's stature on being exposed in the media (in addition to the movie.) And why not? Fact o the matter is: Doom has largely been absent from comics for the last few years after Waid decimated the character back in the "Unthinkable" arc in FF. Even when the first FF movie came out, there wasn't much ado about Doom at all. It wasn't until Brubaker opened the flood gates with "Books of Doom" that the appearances started pouring in, which is something I plan to address in detail both at my own forum and in the General Comics Section here.

Dead Man Wade
2007-08-10, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Kremzeek75
that move *is* highly unorthodox for one such as Doom, which leads me to believe that there is something more going on here.

Or, maybe, you're giving them too much credit.

Cliffjumper
2007-08-10, 03:56 PM
They flew F-14s in Top Gun, not F-15s. Goose's son is a pillock.

Every time an issue of this is coming out, I'm throwing £1.70 down a drain. I'm wasting the money, but saving on the pain.

Zeeks
2007-08-10, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Dead Man Wade
Or, maybe, you're giving them too much credit.

That is a possibility, too. Only time and Moore will tell.

One afterthought, though- it was damned nice seeing Victor take down Logan. Doom was pleased. :D

Halfshell
2007-08-10, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
They flew F-14s in Top Gun, not F-15s.

And that's exactly why I deliberately avoided mentioning types... I kept wanting to write 14, but thinking "aren't the seekers 15s?"

Yay for me. Or not, as it kinda undermines everything I've written.

Though, to the untrained eye, they are pretty much indistinguishable. So my basic point still stands. Nobody who's seen Top Gun would look at Thundercracker and say they don't recognise the config.

inflatable dalek
2007-08-10, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Dead Man Wade
Or, maybe, you're giving them too much credit.

I'm going with option two I'm afraid.

To be honest, when it comes to iconic manly man films I really should see Top Gun is waaaaaaaaaay behind Rocky on my list...

MegatronIDW
2007-08-13, 07:38 PM
I don't utterly hate this series. That's about as much praise as I can give it.
The Ramjet spotlight is not something I'm that worried about. It won't reference any of thise, as I doubt IDW would get away with using Marvel characters in their own comics so I assume that it will ignore this story. Even if it is referenced, I'm sure it will be possible to think of a way to explain it away.
This story DEFINETLY aint cannon though. I've tried to think of a way to fit it into the IDW universe and I can't. Megatron clearly indicates that he and Prime haven't met for ages in Escalation yet he sees him clearly here, in a story that's meant to take place BEFORE Escalation.
Things I like: Doom. Megatron. The fact that they haven't names a brand new character Ramjet (Brought back bad memories of Armada *Shudder*) Spidey. The fact that there was a decent reason for the characters to fight this time. (Mind control, as opposed to "Hey! There giant robots! Let's beat them up!" which seemed to be all the justification for a slug fest we used to get)
What I didn't like: Plot holes! The fact that poor Ramjet gets treated so supsiciously by Megs. I mean, the guy nearly killed Optimus Prime and he's scared of a seeker whose never been much more than cannon fodder?! Ramjet would last five seconds against the big M and yet Megatron treats him as though he's a serious threat to his leadership. illogical much? The fact that Moore seems sketchy on how the Decepticons operate. There's no evidence in the IDW verse that they have ever used mind control. And the fact that it's out of continuity. I wouldn't normally mind but this was sold as being able to fit into the IDW cannon and I bought it because I expected it to. I don't want to come across as a "Sad fan" who spends hours piecing a contunity together but I only have so much money to spend on comics and I don't really want to spend it on something that isn't even part of the IDW storyline.
I doubt I'll be buying the rest of it, though I'll still pick up the Ramjet spotlight if only to see how they fit him into what they've done so far with Infiltration, Stormbringer, Escalation, Devastation and the other spotlights.

Denyer
2007-08-30, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Brendocon
So they not only drew completely the wrong character, but made up an entirely new design in the process?Mebbe the official explanation is "customer feedback"...

This reads worse on paper than it does on-screen, for some reason. Or maybe I was tripping on lack of sleep when I read it the first time.

Might just email Steve now and try to convert the remaining two issue sub into the spotlight. I don't doubt that'll also be a bit off, but it might not directly reference this.

inflatable dalek
2007-08-30, 02:31 PM
Alright, my copy of this has now vanished. Which one of you sicko's stole it then?

Denyer
2007-08-30, 03:29 PM
If you can't find it, drop me a PM for either a digital or paper copy...

inflatable dalek
2007-08-30, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Denyer
If you can't find it, drop me a PM for either a digital or paper copy...

Cool, I'm going to have a bloody good search again first though lest I end up with two copies. It should have been in the "To review" pile...

zigzagger
2007-09-10, 07:06 AM
Your all purpose reaction/discussion thread for the upcoming third installment of the crossover, which is due the 12th of this month.
Speak of its greatness or spit forth your venom here!

inflatable dalek
2007-09-14, 05:00 PM
Well, that bloody well sucked. In fact I can only assume this was put out to make the Megatron comic look good in comparison.

This issues amazing Ramjet action- standing about whilst Doom fries Prowl. Well worth including him.

Iron man's super suit seemingly being sod all use against transformers as no one seems to actually get badly injured.

Prowl being stupid enough to make his "Ahhhhh **** humans. **** them right in the eye" comments in front of someone who'll report it back to the US Government. Way to make new enemies Prowl. At least when Prime does it it's a case of "We must blow them all up or we die!".

How did Doom get back in the Dome without anyone seeing him after he walked off last issue? Why does Megatron even pretend to work with him when the one thing he does (zapping Prowl) any mook could do?

AskShockwave
2007-09-15, 01:10 PM
Jazz and Bumblebee, if they were to transform into their slightly more-useful-in-combat robot modes, would be face-to-groin with prime, according to Kirkham. Runabout has a near impregnable bonnet, and the decepticons outside the dome seem to be on some sort of sponsored silence.

You can almost forgive the terrible dialouge, substandard mecha and abyss-like plot holes, but it's the sheer laziness with the action scenes that pisses me off. There's absolutely no dynamic to any of them whatsoever. In the first scene, 'about and 'amuck get blown away by (the) Iron (Giant) Man. In the very next scene, they're back, parked, right side up, in front of him. Wolverine jumps on Runabout (going for the windshield as opposed to, I don't know, the engine? The tyres?). Runabout stays parked.

.......gah. I can think of a million ways any of this could have been better. But hey, Prowl does something, which is always a treat.

inflatable dalek
2007-09-15, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by AskShockwave

.......gah. I can think of a million ways any of this could have been better. But hey, Prowl does something, which is always a treat.

He does stupid things though. :(

Fully agree that the battle scenes are as dynamic as an episode of Last of the Summer Wine. It's a bit surprising only flyingwoman wants to blow the dome up as well, surely Steve would've never become a Captain if he couldn't make the tough choices?

Denyer
2007-09-15, 01:32 PM
Skimmed. I suppose it's switch-brain-off fun for some readers... it's selling pretty well, apparently. (Someone mentioned 60K at the IDW board, IIRC.)

To say I don't have much faith the Ramjet spotlight will be any good is an understatement.

inflatable dalek
2007-09-15, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Denyer
Skimmed. I suppose it's switch-brain-off fun for some readers... it's selling pretty well, apparently. (Someone mentioned 60K at the IDW board, IIRC.)

:eek:

A lot of Marvel fans must buy any old crap then.

Cliffjumper
2007-09-15, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
surely Steve would've never become a Captain if he couldn't make the tough choices?

Not really a priority when you have supersoldier serum in you, I guess...

inflatable dalek
2007-09-15, 01:47 PM
The soldier serum should make him a great grunt, to actually get promoted to a position of authority without being able to prioritise the mission over the men is a bit worrying...

Denyer
2007-09-15, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
A lot of Marvel fans must buy any old crap then.
Did you read any Civil War? Or any of the mightygodking parodies? Or House of M, come to think of it...

Marvel still put out a few books I like, Wisdom being the most recent I think.

Cliffjumper
2007-09-15, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
The soldier serum should make him a great grunt, to actually get promoted to a position of authority without being able to prioritise the mission over the men is a bit worrying...

Probably, but it's what happened - he was handed the rank on the back of the enhancements, IIRC. Though I'm pretty sure the Super Soldier serum boosted his intelligence as well. Been a while since I read the origin - Jack Kirby's art is just prepostorously ugly.

inflatable dalek
2007-09-15, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Denyer
Did you read any Civil War? Or any of the mightygodking parodies? Or House of M, come to think of it...

Nope, nope and nope. Last Marvel book I read wa The Ultimates 2 (well, I'm still getting Astonishing, but realised upon reading the last issue I'd completely forgotten what the hell was going on...)

Jack Kirby's art is just prepostorously ugly.

Isn't that like something that results in a bitch slapping from comic fans (I've never read anything by him so can't comment, but the way peeps go on I thought he was supposed to be the best?)

Philister
2007-09-23, 07:30 AM
I read issue #3 yesterday and I really consider not picking up #4. This series is so atrociously bad it gives "Buster Witwicky and the Car-wash of Doom" a run for its money.

What goes through the mind of the writers in such a series? Something like "Okay, people like Spider-Man and the New Avengers, people like the Transformers (the movie just came out so it must be cool), so let's put them together, fight a bit, then join forces and somehow it all resolves. Plot? What plot? We got giant robots and Marvel heroes. Who needs plot?"

Denyer
2007-09-24, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Philister
it gives "Buster Witwicky and the Car-wash of Doom" a run for its money.
Nah, that's a deliberately cheesy story that gets undue stick IMO.

TF/Avengers doesn't work even taken on those terms.

Zeeks
2007-10-10, 11:32 PM
discuss.

my opinion: what a let down.

DrSpengler
2007-10-11, 12:14 AM
Yeah, I really didn't like the series, either.

And yay, they did a parody of the cover of Marvel Transformers #3. That totally made the whole lackluster mini worthwhile.

I hate to think that this thing is canon. Hopefully Spotlight Ramjet will make no references to the thing and I can pretend like it never happened.

inflatable dalek
2007-10-13, 04:28 PM
Wow, that is amazingly bad. Loved the tokenistic attempt to tie into Escalation by having Megatron say he'll fight Prime latter- even though Prime's completely defenceless in front of him and it would only take two seconds. Not to mention the whole "Them meeting" thing contradicts Escalation anyway...

AskShockwave
2007-10-13, 08:09 PM
You know what? I can't even be bothered to type what I disliked about this ish. It felt cathartic to moan about the previous three, but this was so bad, so very, very bad....

Mind you, if I HAD to choose my top three gripes, they would be
3) the amount of times Doom talks about himself in the third person.
2) The newly powered up Ratchet 'n' Prowl double act using their new energy to punch Megatron, once, each, before...yup... reverting to car mode. To tackle him with machine guns.
1) It has to be this. After three issues of standing around outside the dome, wondering how to get in, Bumblebee and Jazz orbital bounce inside. That easy.

Gwarh. When does Devestation hit British shores again? I'm not sure I can hold out much longer...

Philister
2007-10-13, 08:52 PM
My absolute favorites in this series:

1) Ramjet, who stands around doing absolutely nothing and then leaves, saying he'll soon be leader of the Decepticons. Isn't that Starscream's job?

2) Doom, who hasn't talked about himself in the third person this much and this melodramatically since the old Lee/Kirby days. Only back then he actually had plot to talk about.

Sadly, from what I hear this superb series stands the best chance of actually being published here in Germany. Out of all the TF comics, we'll get this one (if we get anything at all). Whatever did we do ?

Ozz
2007-10-14, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by DrSpengler
And yay, they did a parody of the cover of Marvel Transformers #3. That totally made the whole lackluster mini worthwhile.

My favourite moment in the whole series. Though I wondered a bit if it was intentional. :o

Originally posted by DrSpengler
I hate to think that this thing is canon. Hopefully Spotlight Ramjet will make no references to the thing and I can pretend like it never happened.

Well, I'm afraid that it will open with Ramjet flying thinking how good idea it was to leave Megatron's psycho-prism to Autobots.