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Denyer
2007-10-22, 01:07 AM
Talk about 'em here if you so desire, though I think most people here got the Titan volumes for the stuff they wanted.

So far they've included a smattering of US issues, an expanding roster of UK material, inclusions in TF Magazine, and announced 'Essentials'-style trades.

Information about the original comics can be found here:

http://tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/ (issues)

http://tfarchive.com/comics/titan/reprints/ (other reprints)

...and information about the new reprints here:

http://tfarchive.com/comics/idw/

inflatable dalek
2007-10-22, 07:01 AM
Can I say again how ****ed off I am still at the moving of the "Ultra Magnus defeated!" cliffhanger from the end of one issue to the start of the next, seeming deliberately and for no good reason? Especially as The Best of Simon Furman gets it right...

Brimstone
2008-02-25, 01:08 AM
So, why is there no mention anywhere of the new IDW reprints of the original US Marvel series? I can't find a thread about it, so I'll post it here.

This book is huge, and a steal for the price for someone like me who hasn't picked up any of the previous reprints and doesn't have many of the original US comics. I hope they go ahead with their plan and reprint all of them. It would be a very nice collection to get all these.

There are a couple that aren't reprinted (though a synopsis is given on both by a one Stuart Denyer/Denyar...is that Denyer from here? Since it was spelled a couple ways, I wasn't sure. If it is...sorry they spelled your name wrong once, man.)

Anywho...if there's a thread somewhere on this, sorry I posted in the wrong place, but would appreciate a redirect. :)

Denyer
2008-02-25, 01:27 AM
So, why is there no mention anywhere of the new IDW reprints of the original US Marvel series?
This is basically it for now -- most of the chat about Generations happened in the news forum, tended to take the view that UK stuff should be moved onto, and I think most people here have got TPBs or issues for Marvel stuff that IDW's released so far. Personally I picked up a few Generations issues for the Roche artwork.

Don't suppose you've got a digital camera? I have no idea what Justin will have used, and mail-order stuff. Did later announcements turn out to be correct and the book's in colour?

sorry they spelled your name wrong
No surprises... for my part, I'm just hoping I didn't typo any numbers if those bits got kept. That and the stuff for the first volume is quite chatty / a lot of panels were off-limits; the second volume notes are more straightforward summary and I wasn't making up a format for them by that point.

Starfield
2008-02-25, 04:26 AM
What issues are in "Classic Transformers Volume 1 (http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Transformers-1-Bob-Budianski/dp/160010147X)"?

The Amazon blurb just says "Car Wash of Doom," "Crater Critters," and "Warrior School"

Denyer
2008-02-25, 08:00 AM
AFAIK, V1 covers the period of US #1-16 and V2 about the same amount of material.

zigzagger
2008-02-25, 08:27 AM
AFAIK, V1 covers the period of US #1-16 and V2 about the same amount of material.
Hmmm. Interesting. So, if the book is 312 pages and is in chronological order, Car Wash of Doom is not in this volume then (it being #31)? Must be a generalized solicitation for all the volumes (assuming enough volumes are released to complete the series). Or does it skip a few issues?

Denyer
2008-02-25, 08:39 AM
Again AFAIK, there are two issues in the first book that couldn't be reprinted in full, with it being a similar case for V2.

What Amazon have is a speculative solicit from about half a year ago (which is the lead time Amazon require for listings) that they don't appear to have changed despite updating cover info recently -- the Diamond info gives:

http://www.comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=208&itemid=10559

this first volume offers some of the most beloved stories from the past, including the seminal “The Last Stand,” “The Worse of Two Evils,” “I, Robot Master,” and many others.

It's really a very bad idea for the info given to Amazon to contain any specifics, as they then become the source of info for other sites & stores / the info that comes out of search engines.

adamtrion
2008-02-25, 03:19 PM
The reprinted comics in "Classic Transformers Volume 1" are in B&W, right?

I was thinking of buying it as a present for a friend of mine but I dont know if the art will be plesent to look at without colors (as it wasnt drawn to be published in this format).

To Brimstone: you gave a description of the trade, could you please tell what do you think of how the art came out? + how long/detailed are the synopsis for issue 3 &9?

DrSpengler
2008-02-25, 03:39 PM
The reprinted comics in "Classic Transformers Volume 1" are in B&W, right?

I was thinking of buying it as a present for a friend of mine but I dont know if the art will be plesent to look at without colors (as it wasnt drawn to be published in this format).

Well, to be honest, Nel Yomtov's coloring on the old Marvel book was so awful that it often times hindered the thing. The only problem with black and white I can imagine is telling the repaints apart, though half the time they refer to themselves by name via crude exposition anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

adamtrion
2008-02-25, 04:41 PM
Does anyone knows why Titan got permission to print issues #3 & 9 and IDW didn't?

IDW did publish issue#7 and Circuit Breaker/Josie Beller did appeared in it.

It doesnt make sense to me.

+ if the only problem with those two issues are the Marvel Characters why not just change the characters appearance? I mean, the reprints are B&W anyway, how hard would it be to give Peter Parker a moustache and change his logo from Spider to say Lobster? and give Circuit Breaker some clothes?

After all, the comics were made by order of Hasbro and they didn't ask for those characters to be in the Transformers comics.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-25, 04:50 PM
Does anyone knows why Titan got permission to print issues #3 & 9 and IDW didn't?[/b]

Because Titan pay for all the appropriate licences, and IDW didn't.

if the only problem with those two issues are the Marvel Characters why not just change the characters appearance? I mean, the reprints are B&W anyway, how hard would it be to give Peter Parker a moustache and change his logo from Spider to say Lobster? and give Circuit Breaker some clothes?Because that'd be retarded, and just annoy people? Aside from Lobsters not being known for their webs?

After all, the comics were made by order of Hasbro and they didn't ask for those characters to be in the Transformers comics.No, they asked for Marvel's help in setting up, oh, the entire fictional universe. Spider-Man probably didn't hurt sales, and therefore was a factor in the full series being commissioned. I'd rather only be able to get reprints from a certain publisher than have just four issues.

IDW are the ones who want to supplement their income on the property with minimum costs by repackaging material that was repackaged a couple of years ago.

Well, to be honest, Nel Yomtov's coloring on the old Marvel book was so awful that it often times hindered the thing. The only problem with black and white I can imagine is telling the repaints apart, though half the time they refer to themselves by name via crude exposition anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

I can concur here... Over in the UK, for the first six months or so we got half of the strip in B&W, and it often looked better than Crayola Yomtov's inept antics. And with characters that shared anything approaching similar character models, chances are Yomtov would **** it up anyway. The qualifier would be if they could get hold of original pencil/ink art rather than just greyscaling the pages. Actually, that would still look better than anything Yomtov managed. Inept, colourblind idiot.

adamtrion
2008-02-25, 05:18 PM
Because Titan pay for all the appropriate licences, and IDW didn't.

nice to know.

Because that'd be retarded, and just annoy people? Aside from Lobsters not being known for their webs?

I dont agree.

A) Hasbro own the comics and they have the right to publish it (or sell the rights to publish it) any time they want without it being an issue with Marvel.

B) The change of the name and appernce of Circuit Breaker to say 'Robot Breaker' (or something else) is not that critical and the same goes for Spidey. It's not like the TF are within thr main Marvel Universe.
+ the Lobster was only a suggestion (and a kind of in joke to readers of Spidey comics). he can easily be painted all black and named the 'black ant', Tarantulas or whatever.

Its a practical solution. not eveybodys cup of tea but a solution none the less.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-25, 05:33 PM
Legally, I don't think it would be. I'm pretty sure legally I couldn't trace a Spider-Man comic, but change his name to The Tarantula (he was painted all-damn black in the bloody comic in the first place...) or whatever and put it out. Otherwise Marvel could just change every single trademark in the TF series and put it out as The Robotoids.

If IDW gave a toss enough, they'd probably have to totally redraw the comic, replacing Peter and Josie with some of their own famous characters, like... erm... ah... But even if IDW owned more than Verity, Rad and Carlos, the whole point of Generations from their point of view is that it's free money. If they gave a **** about putting out a complete set of reprints, they wouldn't have ran #7 and then #13 in two months. The original mini has also been reprinted more times than the bible... So their taking your hasn't left you totally satisfied? I doubt they care.

And I see no real problem with Marvel retaining the rights to characters they have the rights to. That they have no rights whatsoever to a comic they developed, created and produced for eight years is a little more insane, IMO. Both are just vagaries of licensed comics, and Hasbro obviously didn't object to Josie at the time as she appeared for most of the title's life.

Denyer
2008-02-25, 05:36 PM
The reprinted comics in "Classic Transformers Volume 1" are in B&W, right?
It's apparently (as in, a senior editor has pointed out publicly a format change was decided after the solicit was written and released to Diamond) in colour -- I can't say 100% as I haven't seen a copy yet. Wait for Brimstone to post again.

Does anyone knows why Titan got permission to print issues #3 & 9 and IDW didn't?
Because Titan pay for all the appropriate licences, and IDW didn't.
Not as I understand it. Marvel won't make an equivalent deal with IDW for whatever reason -- history's shown their legal department is particularly touchy about Spider-Man, so I'd guess it's because IDW are a direct US comics competitor in a way Titan aren't.

Hasbro own the comics and they have the right to publish it (or sell the rights to publish it) any time they want without it being an issue with Marvel.
No they don't, as both Spider-Man and Circuit Breaker are pre-existing Marvel characters that weren't created for Transformers. Marvel can't reprint the material without Hasbro's say-so, but Hasbro can't authorise anyone to use the Marvel likenesses. It isn't as simple as changing names.

That much is a fairly simple legal situation...

And I don't know how many of the notes were used, but I sent about three sides of A4 including text and panel selections per issue that needed them.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-25, 05:49 PM
Not as I understand it. Marvel won't make an equivalent deal with IDW for whatever reason -- history's shown their legal department is particularly touchy about Spider-Man, so I'd guess it's because IDW are a direct US comics competitor in a way Titan aren't.

I suspect it really is as simple as that they're competitors... In broad terms it can seem a little petty, but comics is a business and Marvel'd look like idiots in the unlikely, but theoretically possible, event that in five years time IDW run them out of business.

TF #3 only really works with Spider-Man, as most of his powers get a work-out - Spidey-sense and the webs being the most notable (and, as comic powers go, pretty unique - I read on some Yahoo! Group that the Spider's web pistol disappears in later strips because Marvel had a quiet word). Renaming/redrawing would result in a clone of Spider-Man, and while Marvel would possibly let that go in a pastische (sp?) cameo in another comic, if it was done to try and basically take the piss, their legal team would grind IDW into the dust because they'd have a pretty enforcable case that their flagship character had been openly ripped off.

Have they had to do anything about the Savage Land mentions? Was the text modified, or is that minor enough that a blind eye was turned?

Denyer
2008-02-25, 06:00 PM
Have they had to do anything about the Savage Land mentions? Was the text modified, or is that minor enough that a blind eye was turned?
With no actual likenesses involved, I'm 99% sure it passes. As does using panels from the other issues that mention character names but don't show them, going on correspondence I've had. Not sure if the shadow of Circuit Breaker is going to have made it in for one panel choice, for example... but it may be more a case of showing willing to Marvel, and they're not going to care about unidentifiable specks in the background of panels for other choices.

All in all, it was an interesting exercise in working around restrictions...

Titan's arrangement with Marvel actually came at a point Marvel had different people in management authorising, and is a deal for other material besides TFs.

How IDW got permission to reprint US #75, I don't know.

edit:
IDW did publish issue#7 and Circuit Breaker/Josie Beller did appeared in it.

She's not Circuit Breaker in that issue, and it appears to be the costumed character Marvel have a trademark for.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-25, 06:16 PM
It's cool knowing a celebrity :)


Titan's arrangement with Marvel actually came at a point Marvel had different people in management authorising, and is a deal for other material besides TFs.

Yeh, I think the telling thing about Titan is that, I believe, they're licensed to reprint DC and Marvel material. Compared to that, being allowed to run TF #3 is small beer...

US #75, my guess is that Circuit Breaker not having a particularly large role is a bit of a factor, maybe meaning Marvel let it fly as a one-off. The co-starring role she had in the earlier issues is probably not so subtle. Maybe a simple case of Marvel were amicable enough for one time, but felt the full series reprint was too much?

inflatable dalek
2008-02-25, 07:21 PM
She's not Circuit Breaker in that issue, and it appears to be the costumed character Marvel have a trademark for.


I'm still not sure how that works, where she's in the costume she's Marvel property and when she's not she isn't. If nothing else- considering the bunged her in Secret Wars solely on the off chance they'd want to exploit her latter without owing Hasbro anything- Marvel would have made sure to stake a claim to the whole character including her secret identity?

EDIT: Denyer, you relise as a credited contributor to a official TF Product you could probably bblag your way onto the guest list of conventions now? ;)

Denyer
2008-02-25, 07:25 PM
It's cool knowing a celebrity :)
There's not really a shortage of people who can précis and know more than the average punter about the material...

The co-starring role she had in the earlier issues
#9 is the introduction of the character, after all -- although there's an earlier appearance in non-TF comics (which is why she's Marvel property) it is where all of the origin stuff was detailed.

I'd hazard a guess at a request via Hasbro being used to get #75, but the parent company likely wouldn't press a point to get Spider-Man material. Marvel (or someone there) was probably acting with as much goodwill as they could reasonably swing without internal conflict. For the rest I doubt anyone's actively protecting Circuit Breaker much, but for purposes of these two books it's in the same batch of requests as the other -- and is the main intro of the character. (All spec, mind.)

In Budiansky's run, the Marvel trademarks are inessential. In Furman's it'd gut the main arc to have to remove and work around all of the Neo-Knight panel appearances.

edit:I'm still not sure how that works, where she's in the costume she's Marvel property and when she's not she isn't.
Trademarks have to be registered. As far as I'm aware Marvel don't hold the copyright on the TF comics; Hasbro do. Apparently no-one registered TM details for a "Josie Beller; generic human female whose likeness changes between issues."

Not even sure if Peter Parker is trademarked, though use a character called that and attach spider-stuff and you'd be heading for a fall.

Bear in mind that a guide to something has a little extra legal flexibility, because it's a written work about a work. Limited use of material may qualify for fair use.

zigzagger
2008-02-25, 08:23 PM
There's not really a shortage of people who can précis and know more than the average punter about the material...


Oh, come off it. You should be proud of yourself!

Denyer
2008-02-25, 08:30 PM
Oh, I'm happy to have been asked. It's not creating in the same sense as, say, a colourist though...

inflatable dalek
2008-02-25, 08:44 PM
Oh, I'm happy to have been asked. It's not creating in the same sense as, say, a colourist though...

Well no, you're not as good as Nel Yomotov and you never will be.

Mildly interesting fact vaguely related in that it's an appearance of Transformer related names in another companies fiction I'll throw in here as it's not really worth its own thread- This months Colin Baker Doctor Who audio from Big Finish features evil disguised aliens named Vorath, Llyra, Kord and Duros (from the same author that gave us Time Lord Straxus last year).

Denyer
2008-02-25, 09:07 PM
Heh.

you're not as good as Nel Yomtov
I would hope not.

It's not entirely his fault though; the colour separation and printing processes US comics were stuck on were shite compared to what UK publishers were using.

And was I dreaming or was there somewhere Yomtov's quoted as being really happy to have been around for the whole run? Titan foreword, letters page? (Will dig out the stack later, as that's going to bug me until I find it...) He seemed pleasant, anyway, and somewhat undeserving of the lynching that would probably occur if he showed up at conventions.

inflatable dalek
2008-02-25, 09:16 PM
It's not entirely his fault though; the colour separation and printing processes US comics were stuck on were shite compared to what UK publishers were using.

yeah, he's not responsible for flaws in the colouring system, and it's easy to forgive him getting otherwise identical characters mixed up, things like the cover where Defensor and Bruticus are both block coloured (one in pink!) is fairly unforgivable.

And was I dreaming or was there somewhere Yomtov's quoted as being really happy to have been around for the whole run? Titan foreword, letters page?

Letters page to US 80 IIRC (I've only ever seen one other interview with him, a very short one on some fan site where he fell over himself to take credit for making the US version of Man of Iron a bit crap).

Cliffjumper
2008-02-25, 09:22 PM
Fiction's covered by a different type of legal stuff, which is why the comics can use Bluestreak, Hot Rod etc. while the toys can't.

As said, there's no need to register Josie - she'd be useless to any other company, it's the Circuit Breaker stuff which makes her interesting (allegedly, anyway). Josie belongs to Hasbro, I guess, which'd come in helpful if IDW ever went for a GB Blackrock: Origin mini... I doubt it's much of a problem for Marvel as they'll never use Circuit Breaker for anything, but then at the same time if they let IDW use her, and a Circuit Breaker series became a shock hit, Marvel would probably either a) be a laughing stock or b) simply withdraw permission. It's not likely, as comic buyers aren't that stupid (well, okay, people bought Death's Head II, Hearts of Steel and loads of stuff by Jeph Loeb, so they probably are), but Marvel have got to cover themselves, basically, and there's no reason they should give stuff to the competition, especially in a collapsing market.

And regarding Josie, her origin actually is pretty much covered in the Secret Wars II issue that got out before her introduction in TF #9, thanks to the powers of infodump. The entirety of her appearance is attached below. And while we're here, it's worth noting Marvel UK pulled a similar stunt with Death's Head and the "High Noon Tex" strip - this is the difference between them and someone Marvel-created like Impactor or Jhiaxus, who regardless of their creation turned up first in the TF comic, and thus belong to Hasbro [/recap]

The whole shebang is probably simply a lot more effort than it's worth to IDW - their Marvel reprints are a simple way of getting money in, while keeping the material in circulation, they aren't about to take on Marvel about it.

Denyer
2008-02-25, 09:31 PM
things like the cover where Defensor and Bruticus are both block coloured (one in pink!) is fairly unforgivable.
http://tfarchive.com/comics/covers/marvel.php?dir=Marvel+US&gal=01-40&img=US+35.jpg

Thing is, it's got to be deliberate. It's better-shaded than the correctly coloured pages inside. Perhaps covers had to be submitted earlier (which would explain how bad some of them are compared to interior art) and/or reference materials weren't available before a deadline?

Letters page to US 80 IIRC
Rings a bell. Have we got that filed somewhere? Can't seem to spot it...

edit:
her origin actually is pretty much covered in
You know what I mean. One sentence isn't an origin story.

Bloody hell, Secret Wars II is awful -- read the entire thing just to make sure there was no other reference...

Cliffjumper
2008-02-25, 09:38 PM
It was at Rob Jung's site for years, IIRC. I'm pretty sure I sent a scan of Transmissions from #80 your way. Here it is again anyway.


It's not entirely his fault though; the colour separation and printing processes US comics were stuck on were shite compared to what UK publishers were using.

I don't know, I have a stack of similar-vintage Marvel, ranging from flagship titles to other franchise crap, and none of them are as lazily or sloppily coloured. I mean, I bet his is a nice chap. But Alan Moore's a giant cock. Guess which one's got some talent, though. It's a shame it goes that way, but it doesn't really mask than Nel's 80 issue run was largely a result of Marvel's contempt for toy comics, and Nel not ever being poached for a 'better' book.

EDIT: Yeh, I sort of meant "legally covered" :)

And hey, I bought the thing for the same purpose. That's ****ing painful...

Denyer
2008-02-25, 09:47 PM
It was at Rob Jung's site for years, IIRC. I'm pretty sure I sent a scan of Transmissions from #80 your way.
Cheers. I assume either is where I've seen it. I'll whack it up into one of the gallery directories.

--> that was t'interview: http://www.electric-escape.net/node/593

I have a stack of similar-vintage Marvel, ranging from flagship titles to other franchise crap, and none of them are as lazily or sloppily coloured.
Is it simply a case of talent / sloppiness, or was the work for a toy book not actually paid enough to make spending time on it viable? Is there any gamut there? How much of Fantastic Four, etc. was he doing concurrently?

I mean, the UK industry was propped up by old women making bingo money, and sometimes by editors grabbing markers and handling the selections before things went off to be separated.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-25, 10:04 PM
I dunno, msot of Marvel's colourists worked on a lot of books at the same time, and Transformers really does stand out as a particularly badly coloured book (and, more often than not, drawn - I've genuinely yet to find a Marvel book that's as badly drawn as Jose Delbo's middle run on Transformers)
- and this is compared to stuff like Rom, Micronauts, GI Joe and so on. None of them have such a massive frequency of errors, and while they do use block colouring, it's never quite as abysmally done.

inflatable dalek
2008-02-26, 06:49 AM
http://tfarchive.com/comics/covers/marvel.php?dir=Marvel+US&gal=01-40&img=US+35.jpg

Thing is, it's got to be deliberate. It's better-shaded than the correctly coloured pages inside. Perhaps covers had to be submitted earlier (which would explain how bad some of them are compared to interior art) and/or reference materials weren't available before a deadline?

I'd assumed it was deliberate as well, which is why I find it the most staggering lapse of judgement he did (in my review of the trade I was joking when I sdaid the UK team was so embarrassed by it even a Dan Reed replacement was considered a better bet, but only just).



Bloody hell, Secret Wars II is awful -- read the entire thing just to make sure there was no other reference...

That was going to be my next question (having given up on trying to sort out the legalities in my head)- Does that cameo actually work in the context of the issue? Because in isolation it seems really...odd. Still, Jets will be pleased by the George and Lyn arse in the air pose she's doing at the end.

I'm still baffled anyone thought she might be a breakaway hit really. You look at Death's Head's first appearance you can see why Furman and Marvel UK worked to get him out of Hasbro copyright, a character with a lot of potential for something different. I can even sort of see why a suddenly desperate for work Furman would try to big up a Neo Nights spin off however hackneyed and crap they were. But what the hell would a Circuit Breaker comic have been about? Her entire thing is hatred of Transformers, without them she's as viable a character as Bomber Bill.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-26, 12:42 PM
I dunno, there's no reason she couldn't have worked with any robots. She hardly ever calls them Transformers, it's always robots, robots, robots. And in 1984 robots were the thing, and if nothing else at least then Marvel would be free to use her in Rom or whatever. I think it was more company practice with any super-human - I mean, you never know what's going to be a hit. Wolverine started off as a one-issue Hulk adversary, the Punisher was similarly designed but for Spider-Man ("What's his thing? He tries to kill superheroes with guns? Can't see that going anywhere..."), Sabretooth started off in Power Man and Iron Fist, Psylocke as Captain Britain's powerless sister, and so on. It's basically a case of why wouldn't Marvel - why assume she wouldn't be popular and just hope you were proved out wrong when you can fairly painlessly claim ownership in the first place?

And Secret Wars II is an incredibly dull, disjointed series. That's basically what it's like most of the way through.

EDIT: And regarding that there cover, it's cover-dated December 1987, which means June '87 at the earliest. Considering the toys would have been easily avaliable, and that Sunbow managed to debut the animation models in January 1986 (and I'm willing to bet even a G1 episode took long to make than a US Marvel comic...), and that a year previously Marvel had bought out the first issue in a limited series of character models that included both Bruticus and Defensor in full colour, lack of research material isn't much of a factor. It's either a lack of talent (in thinking that it would actually look good) or a lack of effort (in not bothering to look up what colours they were meant to be).

To be fair to Nel, he does pick up a bit when some decent artists come on board later on. To be fair to the world, he had plenty to pick up and only managed to move from awful to mediocre, and is pretty much the only weak link in the final batch of issues. Mid-run, it's probably a cycle of despair on the Marvel US stuff - Budiansky has to see Delbo do that to his scripts, and then Delbo has to see Yomtov do that to his art. That this winning team lasted so long without the comic getting cancelled or any of them getting killed for crimes against the medium is a minor miracle.

inflatable dalek
2008-02-26, 04:14 PM
I dunno, there's no reason she couldn't have worked with any robots. She hardly ever calls them Transformers, it's always robots, robots, robots.

Mind, does she actually know what they're called? Blackrock may have mentioned it but she hardly listens to poor old G.B.


To be fair to Nel, he does pick up a bit when some decent artists come on board later on.


Oddly his stuff looks good with Senior's art, but then what wouldn't.

Halfshell
2008-02-26, 04:22 PM
B) The change of the name and appernce of Circuit Breaker to say 'Robot Breaker' (or something else) is not that critical and the same goes for Spidey. It's not like the TF are within thr main Marvel Universe.
+ the Lobster was only a suggestion (and a kind of in joke to readers of Spidey comics). he can easily be painted all black and named the 'black ant', Tarantulas or whatever.

Its a practical solution. not eveybodys cup of tea but a solution none the less.

Right.

Marvel own Death's Head. Would you support the idea of IDW tweaking his appearance and calling him something else in a reprint of "Wanted"?

Seriously?

Let's rerelease The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. But because we can't quite wrangle legal agreements with Lee Van Cleef, we'll digitally replace him with Leo Di Caprio. And call him Devil Ears or something.

That sound good?

adamtrion
2008-02-26, 09:23 PM
Right.

Marvel own Death's Head. Would you support the idea of IDW tweaking his appearance and calling him something else in a reprint of "Wanted"?

Seriously?

Let's rerelease The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. But because we can't quite wrangle legal agreements with Lee Van Cleef, we'll digitally replace him with Leo Di Caprio. And call him Devil Ears or something.

That sound good?

Who talked about the UK reprints? I was talking about the US ones, as they are the ones IDW reprinting in the Classic B&W trades.

Spider-Man appeared once! and it wasn't realy importent to the story that Marvel use Spidey. they could easily used Captain America for example.

If Spideys appearance is the only problem in reprinting issue #3 whenever Hasbro wants to - then I see no problem in changing the look of the character.

Same goes for Circuit Breaker. Yes, with some editing one can go around her character in the issues she appears in but its more simple to redesign the character.

+ As I said earlier, its not a perfect soluition, not everyone (mostly purist) wou't like it but its "A" solution non the less. Of course, paying Marvel is another solution.

I for one don't like the dirty trick Marvel did with Circuit Breaker and Death's Head, but they did do it.

Denyer
2008-02-26, 10:00 PM
Of course, paying Marvel is another solution.
No, it isn't. Titan's contract with Marvel was made under a different management team, for a different sum of material, and they operate in different markets.

with some editing one can go around her character in the issues she appears in but its more simple to redesign the character.
Let's see... find someone who's more than happy to bang out a synopsis of the storyline with annotations and usable panels, or... pay artists and colourists with leanings towards retro at page rate to alter or redo most of the material per issue.

Titan put out the #1-16 storyline over almost three trades at an RRP of $17 to $20 a pop. Being generous, let's call the IDW printing fourteen issues and say it's equivalent to a couple of Titan trades... that's $34-40 bucks. The 300+ page collection has an RRP of $20 and is available elsewhere for about $14.

It's not aimed at completists or people who already have the Titan volumes. It's a cheap and cheerful way to read a chunk of early Marvel US stuff.

Halfshell
2008-02-26, 10:26 PM
Who talked about the UK reprints? I was talking about the US ones, as they are the ones IDW reprinting in the Classic B&W trades.

Principle still stands.

Brimstone
2008-02-26, 11:02 PM
Holy crap! This went from a three post thread to...two pages. LOL! Sorry for the delay in response:

Yes, it is in color. For the most part, I think it printed out rather well. There are a few pages where the art seems to bleed a little bit (looks like too much ink on the page). But, overall I'm impressed with the printing. That's not to say, though, that I'm impressed with the colors...but, it's what I expected from a comic done in the mid-eighties. :)

Now, all that being said, I don't know what the main concerns were about the color. Maybe the originals were brilliant and these only look...odd...because of this printing. But, for the price and size of this book (it's quite thick...almost an inch...sorry, don't know the page count off the top of my head) it did not disappoint. The MSRP in US dollars is 20 bucks...I thought it was a steal for 14 comics (and two synopses of comics).

Yes I have a digital camera. What specifically would you like me to take a picture of?

Um...what other questions were there?

Denyer
2008-02-26, 11:09 PM
Yes I have a digital camera. What specifically would you like me to take a picture of?
The layout mainly, which'd give me an idea of what text got used -- something like the first page or two of synopsis? High-res and dumped somewhere like Imageshack if possible, but no worries if not.

The colour bleeding is probably exactly like it is in the original comics, but if you happen to get a shot of that as well I can compare if you want...

Brimstone
2008-02-27, 12:29 AM
The layout mainly, which'd give me an idea of what text got used -- something like the first page or two of synopsis? High-res and dumped somewhere like Imageshack if possible, but no worries if not.

The colour bleeding is probably exactly like it is in the original comics, but if you happen to get a shot of that as well I can compare if you want...Sounds good. I'll send a PM when I get that out there and let you know where it is. Both are about three pages long, if I remember correctly.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-27, 01:49 PM
Are they not sending you a complimentary copy then, Mr. D? :(

Spider-Man appeared once! and it wasn't realy importent to the story that Marvel use Spidey. they could easily used Captain America for example.

Actually, beforehand it wasn't. but as the story stands now, it is. He uses pretty specific powers - webs and spidey sense.

If Spideys appearance is the only problem in reprinting issue #3 whenever Hasbro wants to - then I see no problem in changing the look of the character.

Ahhh, here's the problem. I foolishly assumed you'd actually read the intervening posts. You plainly haven't. The redraw would have to be radical, basically a top-to-bottom remake, otherwise you end up with IDW publishing a comic that rips off the rather non-generic Spider-Man (yeh, people can keep their elitist comments about the actual material to one side, the point is his powers are pretty unique). The idea of the latter would rouse Marvel's legal team (especially the attempt to find a loophole), who could probably bankrupt IDW by taking them to court regardless of the verdict.

Same goes for Circuit Breaker. Yes, with some editing one can go around her character in the issues she appears in but its more simple to redesign the character.

You're right - the same does go for Circuit Breaker. So, therefore, there's exactly the same problem.

As I said earlier, its not a perfect soluition, not everyone (mostly purist) wou't like it but its "A" solution non the less.

Yeh, it's a solution that would probably see IDW taken to the cleaners by Marvel. The only reason IDW are doing reprints (especially of the whole run) is because they're cheap and easy - it's a simple side-effect of them owning the current licence. Even if simply redrawing the characters was a legally-sound move (which, for the umpteenth time, it isn't), it could well be more effort than it's worth.

I for one don't like the dirty trick Marvel did with Circuit Breaker and Death's Head, but they did do it.

Yeh, it's a dirty trick wanting to keep hold of a character they created, those dirty bastards. Whereas it's moraly sound that the hard work they put in making the Transformers stand out from Gobots, Convertors, etc (Don't get me wrong, I love the toylines, but the fiction can piss off - aside from someone somewhere thinking Fleetway, the creators of Action, The Spider, White Eyes and so on would be a great choice for spinning out a toy-plugging commercial that wasn't full of brutal deaths and mild dystopia it was all awful), and thus contributing to it still being talked about 25 years later can be shipped around to whatever label kerb-crawls up to Hasbro.

Besides which, I can't speak for any certainty regarding CB (though it's a possible factor), you know who's responsible for the "Dirty trick" pulled by Marvel regarding Death's Head? One Simon Furman, who saw Geoff Senior's early design for a hi-then-die character, thought it had potential and talked Marvel UK into registering it as their own character so Hasbro wouldn't get their hands on it. Of course, it was ironic that they then largely did what they wanted (i.e. DH2 - or is it even more ironic that when Furman got him back for DH3 his material was even worse?), but he was the one who came up with the idea (do you think he'd have written "High Noon Tex" and the subsequent series otherwise?). Death's Head was certainly sales gold for the UK comic, and reprints starring him were enough to get cover status in later issues, so the comic was undoubtedly better off with him. There's no evidence Circuit Breaker hurt the US series either - it would seem Hasbro did that with their character-cramming.

Denyer
2008-02-27, 03:00 PM
Are they not sending you a complimentary copy then, Mr. D? :(
In theory -- and I was very kindly offered my pick of other trades, but I've been sticking to issues on IDW stuff and intend to carry on. The company is currently in the process of moving premises, so I wouldn't expect it to be much of a priority.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/circuitb.htm

"Josie Beller created by Bob Budiansky and Alan Kupperberg; Circuit Breaker created by Bob Budiansky and Mike Manley, first depicted in a story by Jim Shooter and Al Milgrom."

(In other respects the page is extremely out-of-date.)

Cliffjumper
2008-02-27, 03:07 PM
That's cool, then :) I'm still waiting for my complimentary copy of "War & Peace" from DW, incidentally, seeing as it involved the inner robot of Magnus being revealed as Prime's brother. I wrote that when I was five.

There's every chance, am I right, that Bob did the same thing with CB as Furman did for DH? Or is it more likely it was simply a Marvel policy?

Interestingly Marvel do, or did very recently, retain some sort of rights to Micronauts...

Denyer
2008-02-27, 03:26 PM
Oh yeah, it was entirely deliberate. Ben Yee's site is down right now, so archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040605091755/www.bwtf.com/interviews/bb204b.shtml

As far as Circuit Breaker appearing in "Secret Wars", one of the indicias of the Transformers book was that everything was copyright of Hasbro. And I felt like Circuit Breaker had enough potential that maybe she could be spun off into something one day and I didn't want Hasbro to own her. She had nothing to do with the toys, she was a human character and so I spoke to Jim Shooter about it and he agreed to feature her briefly in "Secret Wars" before she was printed in Transformers. So that was to keep the copyright under Marvel, not Hasbro.

I think he's confusing the legal terminology of trademarks / copyrights somewhat, but the meaning is clear. AFAIK, Hasbro do have the copyright of issues but can't authorise use of Marvel trademarks to reprint them.

It is possible Marvel have a controlling copyright on some material, with a contract covering later usage.

inflatable dalek
2008-02-27, 03:28 PM
Interestingly Marvel do, or did very recently, retain some sort of rights to Micronauts...

Interesting, I recall reading on OG somewhere recently that a Marvel Essentials of one of their other books (Iron Fist?) had to leave an issue out due a crossover with Micronauts, so I guess they don't anymore then (unless I'm getting muddled on my 80's franchises. The point that it's not just Transformers that suffers in this regard).

Obviously Marvel have no creative control over what happens with the original comic, but do they still recieve any royalty payments from it (not a huge amount I'd imagine though).

Denyer
2008-02-27, 03:33 PM
They might from the Titan deal, but the work for Hasbro was most likely done as work-for-hire with rights being assigned to the commissioning company.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-27, 03:39 PM
They appeared in Vol. 4 of Captain Marvel in, what, 2002 or 2003. Thing is I'm really not au fait with Micronauts (despite somehow accumulating around thrity issues), and for all I know the characters featured in Captain Marvel are ones that Marvel own the rights to through some similar dealy.

EDIT: Could well have been before the licence went to Devil's Due... not sure that Marvel would have kept it renewed just so Peter David could use them, though. I would look up the CM issues, but that's involve reading Volume "Ahahahaha! Genis has gone nuts! Oh no, he's sane! No, he was kidding, he's still nuts! Wow, we really are spinning this out to thirty issues and pissing all over our work with the excellent third volume, aren't we" 4.

Oh yeah, it was entirely deliberate. Ben Yee's site is down right now, so archive:

Top linking. Did I just not do research when I did the comic guide, or was this much info just not around?

Personally, I can't begrudge Bob for wanting Circuit Breaker, even if she was a bit naff. Her belonging to Marvel is a more than a fair trade-off, seeing as Hasbro got to keep, well, everything else - the core personalities for most characters have been kept consistent since '84, so without him (and a bit of Jim Shooter) we'd basically have nothing. It's just a shame she was a bit crap and never got him much success. Still, there was always Sleepwalker, eh Bob? No, Bob, put the razor down...

While I remember to say, as I've been meaning to for a bit, if you want a sort of gallery of odds and sods scanned from Marvel comics, I'm willing to help, ineptness notwithstanding (and the selling of a lot of the American issues)... how much do Transfans have covered?

Denyer
2008-02-27, 03:47 PM
Did I just not do research when I did the comic guide, or was this much info just not around?
That interview's from the start of 2004; don't remember when you started the guide... there's another decent one here --

http://www.alteredstatesmag.com/features/qanda/bbudiansky_1.php

You did read the interview --

http://tfarchive.com/community/showthread.php?postid=313741

edit: And a TMUK one I'd forgotten about --

http://www.geocities.com/charlesrocketboy/Budiansky.htm

While I remember to say, as I've been meaning to for a bit, if you want a sort of gallery of odds and sods scanned from Marvel comics, I'm willing to help, ineptness notwithstanding (and the selling of a lot of the American issues)... how much do Transfans have covered?

UK letters pages. I'd like equivalent scans here without actually nicking theirs (I know we're on the same server, and they might've had Brendan's cover scans, but would regard it as crossing a line to just annex 'em), plus anything else of interest that's staggeringly unlikely to be reprinted, really... whatever you're willing to do. I've never collected individual issues in an organised manner.

I'm particularly interested in any US letters pages, which I don't think are available anywhere (or I'm being thick and missing)...

Cliffjumper
2008-02-27, 03:55 PM
So I did do research, but just not very well? Heartening to know ;) The whole thing's broadly slated for a rewrite, but the original was a massive amount of work.

And yep, that should be doable, but probably a bit slowly until we move rooms around and I get the scanner in the same room as the actual PC. Three years, and writing that sentence still leaves me gobsmacked.

inflatable dalek
2008-02-27, 03:56 PM
They appeared in Vol. 4 of Captain Marvel in, what, 2002 or 2003. Thing is I'm really not au fait with Micronauts (despite somehow accumulating around thrity issues), and for all I know the characters featured in Captain Marvel are ones that Marvel own the rights to through some similar dealy.

Having checked, it was Rom who's appearance caused the issue not to be reprinted. I didn't know Machine Man debuted in the 2001 comic, does that affect Marvel's ownership of him? And how the hell can anyone do a comic based on that film?


Personally, I can't begrudge Bob for wanting Circuit Breaker, even if she was a bit naff. Her belonging to Marvel is a more than a fair trade-off, seeing as Hasbro got to keep, well, everything else - the core personalities for most characters have been kept consistent since '84, so without him (and a bit of Jim Shooter) we'd basically have nothing. It's just a shame she was a bit crap and never got him much success. Still, there was always Sleepwalker, eh Bob? No, Bob, put the razor down...

He's got the resembalence to the Ghostbusters 2 guy going on as well...

Cliffjumper
2008-02-27, 04:02 PM
Havong checked, ot was Rom who's appearence caused the issue not to be reprinted. I didn't know Machine Man debutd in the 2001 comic, does that affect Marvel's ownership of him? And how the hell can anyone do a comic based on that film?

I dunno, the 2001 comic was made years earlier - probably a totally different set of legal rules covering a film adaptation and a merchandise comic, especially in the silver age. Chances are it was as simple as what Clarke created was his, and what Marvel created was theirs. oh, and in answer to the second question, the answer is badly, though it was more modelled on the book. It's certainly the weirdest place of debut for any halfway successful mainstream superhero, though. The Machine Man 2020 mini is actually a pretty good comic, probably the best back-up strip TF ever got in (especially as GI Joe was reprints, generally, of the poor American material).

inflatable dalek
2008-02-27, 04:11 PM
So good then ran it twice didn't they? I seem to recall seeing some panels from the 2001 comic in an old issue of Starburst, the artist seemed to not graps the whole appeal of the films visual look by drawing space in technicolor. I never knew they went onto original stories though.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-27, 04:19 PM
I can't remember that they did, TBH - I've only read a handful of issues. IIRC, Machine Man's role wasn't conventional, he was a robot on Earth at the start or something being shown off, and I guess someone just thought "Hey, that guy's cool, let's give him his own series!". We're talking the same company that gave Night Thrasher, Hercules, Wonder Man and Bishop their own series, God knows what they're on most of the time.

inflatable dalek
2008-02-27, 04:26 PM
nd again seems to be missing the point of the film/book (all the tech is what was considered feasible for the real 2001- and for the most part it turned out to be evn if we didn't implement it in space travel). Circuit Breaker- The Robot Killer! suddenly seems a likely comic success.

Starfield
2008-02-28, 12:13 AM
If you ask me, it makes no sense for Marvel to object to Spider-Man being reprinted. It is basically a free advertisement for Spider-Man.

Similar for Circuit Breaker. If Marvel wanted to launch a Circuit Breaker title, would it be easier if she were already known from the Transformers books?

inflatable dalek
2008-02-28, 07:00 AM
If you ask me, it makes no sense for Marvel to object to Spider-Man being reprinted. It is basically a free advertisement for Spider-Man.

I can see them been fine liscencing Circuit Breaker reprints (it's not as if the character does anything else for them), but come on, does Spider-Man really need free advertising? Really?

In a bored moment I actually looked up Machine Man's history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_%28comics%29

It seems the 2001 comic was original material, but it's easy to see why Cliffy thinks this wasn't the case as the first seven issues seem to be a barely disguised reworking of the film (another monkey, another monolith, another star child ect). The last two issues introduced Machine Man and have so little to do with the film them seem to be regarded as little more than a back door pilot.

Halfshell
2008-02-28, 01:31 PM
If you ask me, it makes no sense for Marvel to object to Spider-Man being reprinted. It is basically a free advertisement for Spider-Man.

You're assuming that anybody is going to want to read a single issue of his comic following the appearance in #3.

Maybe they wanted bags of cash as compensation for the damage to his reputation that the reprint would cause. Maybe they denied usage on grounds of good taste.

Extension of logic time: Marvel shouldn't want any money from the Spidey movies, as they just serve as advertisement for the comics.

IDW would make money off something that contains a Marvel-owned character. Marvel would want some of it. It's how the business works.

Similar for Circuit Breaker. If Marvel wanted to launch a Circuit Breaker title, would it be easier if she were already known from the Transformers books?

Did you see a massive Nate Grey relaunch off the back of the recent Age of Apocalypse TPBs? I didn't.

I can't really see "recently featured in some reprints of a 20 year old comic, put out by a different publisher" as featuring heavily in the marketing drive for a character that nobody cared about the first time round.

Denyer
2008-02-28, 01:44 PM
Marvel would want some of it.

For the scale of the reprint, and extent of the appearance, in fiscal terms it probably isn't worth the billing of a lawyer's time to look over a contract.

It may also bear noting that Hasbro didn't want Spider-Man in the issue in the first place, due to another company having the toy license for his normal red/blue costume -- Marvel was being generous in offering the exposure, and in compromising by suggesting the black costume.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-28, 01:45 PM
Aye, the Transformers thing is, I think, as painful for Spidey-fans as it is vice-versa, and Marvel wouldn't gain anything - if I was to scan all the Spider-Man issues that are currently not in print, that would be free advertising for Spidey... I don't think it'd fly as an excuse. Free advertising does have its' limits, especially when it comes down to copyright violations.

Though, TBH, Marvel's reasons are neither here nor there - it's their right to veto the reprint, and while a complete run would have been nice (this aside, the package sounds a lot more interesting than Titan's botched job), their move is legally and commercially pretty bullet-proof.

I think if it was an individual's work (say, someone right-on and popular like Warren Ellis) rather than faceless ol' Marvel who owned the character, no-one would be questioning the copyright owner's rights (in this case technically the creators as well) to block the reprint. I mean, yeh, it's cool to rally against The Man for his land-baron tendancies, but when you're arguing that Hasbro are the wronged party the "Yeh, I really like him so I'll ignore legal precedent" tends to disappear.

Starfield
2008-02-28, 02:50 PM
You're assuming that anybody is going to want to read a single issue of his comic following the appearance in #3.

Maybe they wanted bags of cash as compensation for the damage to his reputation that the reprint would cause. Maybe they denied usage on grounds of good taste.
Ha ha! I hadn't considered that. Good point! I haven't read that issue in a long time. I ordered the IDW reprint out of curiosity. Maybe the laws should be that Spidy's image remains with that comic--that comic being considered a property as a unit--with no new Spidy apperances in future comics.

It is ironic that Marvel created that issue and now might be ashamed if it was republished.

if I was to scan all the Spider-Man issues that are currently not in print, that would be free advertising for Spidey... I don't think it'd fly as an excuse. Free advertising does have its' limits, especially when it comes down to copyright violations.
Marvel would have the right to stop you, but I think they would be stupid to. It is free advertising. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles has it right. They have the old issues free online (http://www.ninjaturtles.com/html/comic.htm). I imagine it helps out their current stuff.

Denyer
2008-02-28, 03:13 PM
I think if it was an individual's work (say, someone right-on and popular like Warren Ellis) rather than faceless ol' Marvel who owned the character, no-one would be questioning the copyright owner's rights (in this case technically the creators as well) to block the reprint.
If any copyright holder can't be bothered to keep material available and in-print (whether digitally or in print) I don't see many good reasons why they should be granted exclusive rights over its reproduction. Then there's the question of whether copyright holders should be allowed to set arbitrarily high licensee fees to to keep material inaccessible.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-28, 03:19 PM
I also imagine a big factor is that not enough people would pay money for it. IDW aren't going to put the comics free online as long as some people are willing to pay for fifty cent back issues that Ashley Wood's scrawled on the front of.

The problem is clearly with a competitor that specialises in renting licenses in their domestic market, and that makes perfect sense - why whore a key property out to anyone else? Whether the material is 25 years old or brand new is surely neither here nor there, Spider-Man is one of Marvel's characters, and they only want him to appear in Marvel comics in their core market. Reprinting TF#3 wouldn't have any beneficial effect for them, anyone interested will already be aware of the character. As said, a character with three mega-grossing films, a score of healthy solo series and general recognition as one of the very biggest comics characters doesn't need free advertising.

Starfield
2008-02-28, 03:24 PM
Reprinting TF#3 wouldn't have any beneficial effect for them, anyone interested will already be aware of the character.I'm just saying that in a more fair world, it should be too late for Marvel to do anything about TF#3. Spider-Man's image is in that comic. It is a historical fact. Whoever owns TF#3 should be able to reproduce it as-is. TF#3 should be treated as property as a unit.

Cliffjumper
2008-02-28, 03:28 PM
If any copyright holder can't be bothered to keep material available and in-print (whether digitally or in print) I don't see many good reasons why they should be granted rights over its reproduction. Then there's the question of whether copyright holders should be allowed to set arbitrarily high licensee fees to to keep material inaccessible.

Thing is, it's not that simple in this case - Marvel are just as unable to print the material as IDW/Hasbro, and as far as we know have been since 1995. Marvel US and Marvel UK both reprinted the story (US - Magazine, Collected Comics; UK - Collected Comics, Complete Works), what, twice after its' initial appearance in each market, making a total of six different avaliable versions, and Titan bought it out, what, four years ago.

Of course, my personal belief is that scans of anything out of print are fair game. And scans of anything bundled in a contrived TPB with a dozen other easily avaliable stories just to boost sales and/or a writer's ego (so my scanning and hosting antics will soon involve "Wrath of Guardian/Grimlock", albeit a long time after the event).

I wonder what the line will be on any GI Joe related material (e.g. G2) - I'm guessing that will be no problem, what with the crossovers, even if Hasbro have pimped the license out to two different companies, yeh?

I'm just saying that in a more fair world, it should be too late for Marvel to do anything about TF#3. Spider-Man's image is in that comic. It is a historical fact. Whoever owns TF#3 should be able to reproduce it as-is. TF#3 should be treated as property as a unit.

I'd say it'd be fairer if anything Marvel produced remained in their control rather than Hasbro's, TBH. It's a little difficult using the word "fair" in relation to anything created as work-for-hire - Bob Budiansky gave us Transformers as the Western world knows it, and I doubt he gets much payment for that as it was done as work-for-hire. That's not especially fair.

Halfshell
2008-02-28, 03:29 PM
I wonder what the line will be on any GI Joe related material (e.g. G2) - I'm guessing that will be no problem, what with the crossovers, even if Hasbro have pimped the license out to two different companies, yeh?

Fairly sure IDW have got the Joe license now. Though that may still be officially unconfirmed...

Cliffjumper
2008-02-28, 03:33 PM
Shows you how much attention I pay. Way I think of GI Joe is we got "Ancient Relics", Flint, that tricked-out A-10 and the Baroness back in the 1980s. We don't really need anything else from the thing.

Denyer
2008-02-28, 03:35 PM
Thing is, it's not that simple in this case - Marvel are just as unable to print the material as IDW/Hasbro
Compulsory licensing is that simple; the complexity comes in estimating value.

The fact that Marvel are unable to reprint something they have a copyright or trademark on should severely limit its commercial value to them, hence a lower licensing fee being appropriate.

Of course, turnaround is fair play -- if Marvel wanted to license the other 99% of material that doesn't belong to them, they should be allowed to for a fee commensurate with its commercial value.

inflatable dalek
2008-02-28, 08:42 PM
Fairly sure IDW have got the Joe license now. Though that may still be officially unconfirmed...


And I'm really hoping that rather then do a new crossover they just reprint the Marvel ones (if only Ancient Relics). Actually, how about instead of a new New Avengers crossover they just sort it out so Marvel can reprint issue 3 in isolation? Yes, reprinting one bit of a four part story would normally be a bit odd, but in terms of how much it makes sense, quality of art and colouring, characterisation and how much it feels like a modern comic it beats Man and Machine hands down.

EDIT: I wonder iof Marvel can claim money of Titan for Furman shamelessly reusing the Rhythms of Darkness script for Twilights Last Gleaming...

adamtrion
2008-02-28, 11:07 PM
It doesn't look like (to me at least) IDW will be reprinting the Marvel UK exclusive stories in their Classic trades (if they are planning to release sevrel of them).

The UK stories are very tied together, one story leads to another and due to IDW inability to publish comics with Marvel characters all the Death's Head stories can't be reprinted which explain how Cyclonus and Scourge got to the past and how Rodimus and compeby went back to earth after Galvatron.

So if they want to publish a sort of chronological trades they be better of reprinting the G.I.Joe VS TF mini series.

My guess is, if the first two trades are successful they will release the rest of the US issues at least up to #75 because after that the Neo Knights play a large rule and it will be hard to edit them out (like in say issue #75 itself).

But it would be nice if they include in the trades (as they are supposed to be in B&W) a few of the UK stories like Deathbringer, Race with the Devil, Out to Lunch, the Big Showdown - stories that contribute or expand on the US stories.

LKW
2008-02-29, 02:22 AM
I wonder what the line will be on any GI Joe related material (e.g. G2) - I'm guessing that will be no problem, what with the crossovers, even if Hasbro have pimped the license out to two different companies, yeh?


Hasbro themselves reprinted eighteen of Marvel’s (often very good to excellent) G.I. Joe issues in the past few years, packaged with their comic book three packs (which, incidentally, included some toy incarnations of characters created by Marvel for the series, such as Kwinn and the October Guard – raising hopes for the possibility of someday having a Buster Witwicky/G. B. Blackrock/Bomber Bill three pack! ;) ). Hasbro blanked out any mention of Marvel from the cover reproductions, and only Hasbro is mentioned in the copyright space on the first page. There was one three pack in the line based on a Devil’s Due issue; for that reprint, Hasbro left intact both the Image symbol on the front cover and the entire Devil’s Due information page on the inside of the cover, presumably because DD were (?) the current comic rights holder. So, I’m inclined to agree that the scattering of the Joe comic licence wouldn’t interfere with IDW using the G2 Joe material if Hasbro agreed, even if IDW doesn’t end up with the G.I. Joe comic franchise.

And, congratulations again on being tapped as a contributor for IDW, Denyer! This honestly does make me much more inclined to look for this collection…. Oh, and I do have an almost complete (I only have TPB versions of #65 and #71, and #5 is missing but really should be here somewhere) collection of the Marvel US issues, and a scanner, if you do want those letters pages….

Denyer
2008-02-29, 03:28 AM
It doesn't look like (to me at least) IDW will be reprinting the Marvel UK exclusive stories in their Classic trades [...] The UK stories are very tied together, one story leads to another
Target: 2006, various Dinobots stories, and Space Pirates are a go so far... and the ongoing nature of the UK comic didn't stop Titan from publishing stories out of order, did it? The material got divided up into roughly themed books (often with random filler at the end.) The only way to publish the stuff contiguously is to include the US stories at appropriate points -- and even then it was a bodge in the original comics.

and I do have an almost complete (I only have TPB versions of #65 and #71, and #5 is missing but really should be here somewhere) collection of the Marvel US issues, and a scanner, if you do want those letters pages…
Is it alright if I give you a yell once I've got whatever Tom can provide? No point in people redoing work if it ain't necessary. :)

Cliffjumper
2008-02-29, 10:12 AM
I know I've got #5 somewhere, Marvel UK botched the cover so that was a keeper. Sadly, the Furman issues were the ones I largely sold to buy random robots. I'll dig out what I've got that didn't go/survived the damp that decimated my complete US run, though, and put up a list :)

Re: Titan's UK trades. Don't get me started on what a shit job they made of the ordering. "If you don't have working knowledge of this story which hasn't been reprinted yet, you're pretty much ****ed matey!" should have been the foreword for most of them.

LKW
2008-02-29, 09:23 PM
Is it alright if I give you a yell once I've got whatever Tom can provide? No point in people redoing work if it ain't necessary. :)

No prob :) Perfectly sensible :up:

Denyer
2008-03-05, 01:38 AM
Got hands on a copy... paper quality and covers are nice, colours are a lot stronger than original 80s newsprint is by now, scanning's generally come out alright (a little dark in places, but Titan volumes frequently suffered from stuff being washed-out instead.) Tiny shame the double-page spread in #5 has been split; if a space-filler was needed, the alternate ending to from the old UK Complete Works 2 book could've been added as a curio (or to get truly obscure, though copyright would probably have ruled it out, maybe the page with a 'V' show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_%28The_Original_Miniseries%29) screengrab Shockwave's watching in the UK printing of The New Order.) The interleaving of covers is handled more consistently than Titan and the Victory pages are a nice teaser for UK reprints.

Surprised that notes seem to have made it more-or-less intact, aside from "the cassette 'Con" not making sense with the preceding paragraph having moved to the end and a doubling of a sentence elsewhere. And my evil writing-things-in-English (as opposed to American) has been 'corrected'. ;)

Neat good-value collection that should hopefully snag some first-time readers for where it all started.

inflatable dalek
2008-03-30, 08:49 PM
And for those of you desperate to get hold of a copy of issue three in book form, it looks like it's going to be included in the second of Titan's "Best of" collections:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1845769546/thetransfor06-21

Now, if we just persuade them to do the Death's Head stuff we'll be set to go go...

Gouki
2008-03-30, 10:43 PM
So if they sell well, the plan is to reprint all of Marvels G1 work, and possibly the G2 stuff, or what?

Denyer
2008-03-31, 12:25 AM
IDW are keen to put everything they can into print and keep it available.

They're a bit more limited than Titan because Titan aren't a publisher of singles in the US direct market, and Marvel won't make the same kind of deals.

On the other hand, hopefully we might see stuff from IDW that Titan didn't get around to reprinting -- IDW aren't working from the same archive of scanned material, they're taking fresh scans from the issues. It should mean that UK stuff gets a better treatment, as in the Titan volumes some stories are quite washed-out.

Cliffjumper
2008-03-31, 04:27 PM
And for those of you desperate to get hold of a copy of issue three in book form, it looks like it's going to be included in the second of Titan's "Best of" collections:

Along with "the introduction of Spike Witwicky (as seen in the movie)", apparently. Technically I can think of a few ways around that, but I'm willing to bet the thing won't include "Trial by Fire", and it isn't referring to Spike having a minor role in the '86 film. But then, given Titan's choices whenever it's not "just print this block of issues in order", God only knows...

Best of Bob, I'm guessing by the inclusion of #3, will be showing off his editorial skills, yeh?

If anyone's that interested in #3, the original is about £3 IIRC, and you won't have to let Titan **** you in the arse by paying twice that for a book chock-full of stuff you already have three times over.

Denyer
2008-03-31, 04:44 PM
Answers on a postcard as to what the **** Titan are playing at, BTW... they've got a non-international license at the moment, which means that in theory they can reprint anything but not distribute it to the US (unlike first time around, when they solicited new titles through Diamond)... but they appear to be doing grab-bags rather than reissuing their existing out-of-print volumes. And they've had the limited license for longer than this, which makes you wonder why they weren't doing anything closer to the film hype period.

I think there's a good chance they're aiming to stay under the radar and not have anyone else complain to Hasbro about the way the license has been split, TBH.

It'll certainly be a shocker if these volumes turn up on Diamond. Doubtful, though, as they don't even seem to be on Amazon US.

Cliffjumper
2008-03-31, 04:53 PM
I go for the "low profile" option myself. Reissuing the existing trades would no doubt piss IDW off, as it'd negate the (debatable) purpose of Generations/the trades/Best Of The UK That Can Be Stretched Out To Fill A Nice Profitable Mini-Series.

It'd be nicer for the fans if Titan could just keep their US reprints in circulation, though - some cheapness (the awful cover galleries and complete lack of any interesting extras) and poor titling aside, they didn't do too badly with them. The UK books they made such an arse out of that they don't deserve to see a penny on them, TBH.

Though whichever publisher gets their thumb out of their anus and puts "Man of Iron" (the full Hart version, none of that Yomtov shit thangyewverymuch) back in print will basically by my soul. Well, unless Titan manage to include it in a collection with US #52, the second part of "Second Generations", a random "Dread Tidings" page, the TF Universe profile for Huffer and a script for the GI Joe crossover that has all the vowels missing, anyway.

adamtrion
2008-04-07, 02:52 PM
ok, so the contents of the 2nd Classic TPB is out:

CLASSIC TRANSFORMERS, VOLUME 2

Written by Bob Budiansky, art by Don Perlin and Herb Trimpe.

Continuing IDW's re-presentation of the beginnings of the Transformers' comics lore. Join the original G1 characters as the ongoing war continues between the Autobots and Decepticons. In this second collection, including issues #17-30, the Autobots create Omega Supreme, Shockwave cedes command to Megatron, and the cast of mechanoids on Earth grows. Includes classic stories such as "Plight of the Bumblebee," "Command Performances," "Showdown," "Funeral for a Friend," and more.

340 pages, $19.99.

So as we can see, again, the TF/G.I.Joe marvel crossover is not collected even due its in continuity but all in all its a very good collection, 14 comics (2 of them probebly summeries) which cost 20$ while in the old Titan trades 6 issues cost the same.

The only problematic issues in this trade are #23 and 24, sadly they are quite importent as they tell the origin of the "special teams" in the us run.

Too bad IDW couldnt combine the UK comics with the US ones to try and create the best chronological comics TPBs they can.

And theres also something weird, wasnt "Plight of the Bumblebee" already collected in the first Classic trade?

But still, this trade I'm definitely geting, its too good a deal to miss.

Denyer
2008-04-13, 06:44 PM
they are quite importent as they tell the origin of the "special teams" in the us run.
With so-so art and very little drama -- I never got what the big deal with the Scramble City combiner teams was; it was presented as revolutionary whilst Devastator was already around and had been for ages. The UK stories dealing with same are a bit more wry.

Not sure why you think #24 is unprintable; Circuit Breaker is on the last page of #21, and then present for most of #22 and #23. Afterdeath has actually already been reprinted (http://tfarchive.com/comics/idw/guide.php?s=generations) in the Generations selection.

Bear in mind that the solicitations were written and sent out months ago.

inflatable dalek
2008-04-13, 07:02 PM
I flicked through this the other week whilst up Brum, sadly for Denyer's royalties four pages recapping missing issues wasn't enough incentive to buy again, but I'd still recommend it to those that don't have the bulk of the material.

adamtrion
2008-04-13, 07:22 PM
Not sure why you think #24 is unprintable; Circuit Breaker is on the last page of #21, and then present for most of #22 and #23.
.

I meant #22 and #23, my mistake.

Cliffjumper
2008-04-14, 09:42 PM
The UK stories dealing with same are a bit more wry.

Seriously? Apart from the prelude with Smokescreen getting some decent use (not just me, c'mon, he's hilarious!) I find the UK stories to be even more leaden - "Second Generation" is a toy commercial with an unrelated Robot Master-MC'd fight stuck on the end, whereas the US stories ("Aerialbots Over America" & "Heavy Traffic") are amiable mid-run Bob madness, complete with Air Raid doing his usual trick of somehow being the generic Aerialbot picked out to hand everyone their arse (see also the Season 3 episodes where he helps pin down Cyclonus and neuters Trypticon). Plus the British one managed to have really, really bad art - either Stokes or Kitson completely phoning it in...

Denyer
2008-04-15, 10:46 PM
Seriously?

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2817/6405aaafy2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Lil' bit of meta, anyway.

Cliffjumper
2008-04-16, 01:11 PM
Heh, did forget about that bit... Would it really have been that hard for Furman to write a decent story involving the teams, though? It's a bit much for him to go all snarky when poor Bob was doing most of the hard work...

I do think IDW are missing a trick by not weaving the UK stuff into their reprints. I mean, sure, stop when the black & white kicks in (both to make it a smooth read and to keep the books a little more linear), but otherwise it'd be rather neat, and I'd buy it for one (Titan making the UK trades a totally different size to the US ones was a big mistake on their part, IMO - Jeff Anderson looks better at 2/3rds size).

Denyer
2008-06-10, 06:06 PM
Just got some info on this --

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1845769104/thetransfor06-21

-- one of the sellers helpfully listed the contents directly, the other pointed me towards this --

http://www.comicscreatorsguild.co.uk/nowreadthis/?p=2062

Apparently what Titan have done is glued bits of their earlier Primal Scream, Matrix Quest, All Fall Down and End Of The Road volumes, omitting the Rhythms of Darkness (#67) and Human Factor (#68) diversions along with some context (as Primal Scream, introducing the Primus/Unicron dichotomy to US readers, was #61.)

But it is a twelve issue and apparently normal-sized trade edition currently available for £5 from Amazon, if you live in the UK or import.

Which is something of an improvement on the original RRP of £14.99 per TPB.

Cliffjumper
2008-06-10, 06:10 PM
It ends in the right place, cuts the right stuff, has a name that vaguely applies to the material within and is being sold at a decent price. Are we sure that it's Titan?

inflatable dalek
2008-06-11, 12:40 PM
Well, the cover is stupidly wrong if that makes you feel better.

inflatable dalek
2008-06-14, 03:42 PM
I flicked through this yesterday, a very nice collection that's well worth bit for those that don't have it. I fell bad about my earlier snideness and will from here on in endeavour to be a better person to all.

I also brought the second Captain Britian trade, which as well as being nicely put together (not only all all the covers still in colour, which would have cost a bit more in a otherwise B&W book, but they even include all the Spider-Man Has Captain Britain As Dead Weight Around His Neck covers despite most of them barely having the Cap in em), it's also got an introduction by Budiansky where he rather tounge in cheekly reveals the creatively bankrupt story behind the characters origins ("He should be like Captain America crossed with Peter Parker with Daredevil's stick").

Denyer
2008-09-03, 11:35 AM
Volume three is slated to include "Man of Iron" but no word on whether it'll be US colours --

http://tfarchive.com/comics/idw/guide.php?s=books#classic3

(NB: by my math, if "finally we visit with THE QUINTESSONS!" that's issues #33-43 [Big Broadcast of 2006] for a total of eleven rather than fourteen. They could be intending to add in Headmasters #1-4, which'd raise it to fifteen.)

Cliffjumper
2008-09-03, 12:23 PM
Is there that Circuit Breaker one in there? Minus that one and you'd have 14 :)

Reprinting Man of Iron and using Nel Yomtov's colours would be a catastrophically stupid move; although using Gina's would show Nel up yet more again.

Denyer
2008-09-03, 12:58 PM
"Monstercon from Mars!" is #45, so definitely not part of a run that ends in an issue featuring Quintessons. Adding in Headmasters would make sense, and thus far things have been chronological.

Presumably either the solicit was written by someone who didn't follow the notes, or (looking on the bright side) 'visit' might mean that a picture of some Quintessons has been included rather than BBo2006...

Cliffjumper
2008-09-03, 01:41 PM
Ahhh - US issue numbers have never been my strong-point, I'm alright up until about the mid-20s then I'm on guesswork :)


Horrible, horrible thought - adding in the Movie adaptation (meet the Quintessons, see) instead of HM would make it 14 issues ;)

Halfshell
2008-09-03, 01:43 PM
by my math

s.

adamtrion
2008-09-14, 07:54 AM
Volume three is slated to include "Man of Iron" but no word on whether it'll be US colours --

http://tfarchive.com/comics/idw/guide.php?s=books#classic3

(NB: by my math, if "finally we visit with THE QUINTESSONS!" that's issues #33-43 [Big Broadcast of 2006] for a total of eleven rather than fourteen. They could be intending to add in Headmasters #1-4, which'd raise it to fifteen.)

Well... Vol.2 ended in issue #30 so Vol.3 should include issues #31-32

so if we consider this + the fact that each Vol is basiclly 14 issues (more or less) Vol.3 should include issues #31-37+HM #1-4+#38-40

only if the HM Mini is not included the issues #41-44 will be in Vol.3

Mu guess that BBof2006 will not be in Vol.3 (as well as isuues #41, 42, 44) and that theres a mistake in the summery, just like in Vol.2 (with the Plight of the Bumblebee)

inflatable dalek
2008-09-14, 01:46 PM
Speaking of possible solicitation mistakes:

http://tfarchive.com/comics/idw/guide.php?s=dreamwave#armada2

The one for DW G1 V3 claims it has issues 0-5, or one short of the end of that story arc. A mistake, as far as they can legally go with the reprints or a case of the legal issues all being sorted and they want a even five issue split between their last two volumes? If it's the one of the latter two that's going to be a fairly pointless purchase isn't it? Shame as the Sunstorm Arc was probably the most sustained run of least crap DW did with G1.

Cliffjumper
2008-09-14, 02:17 PM
Yeh, they'd be better off just stretching the trade to seven issues (though this is IDW, we must think of the dorrah), and padding up the second one (there's the Summer Special strip, whatever they could secure in terms of unpublished material, they could get some irrelevant people like Andrea LaFrance, CR Dolrailer's voice actor and tree called Jimmy in - Titan-style - to write padding articles, throw in a comprehensive cover gallery, or even some sort of mini-essay actually explaining what they've got in their hands, why it wasn't finished and the suchlike).

All assuming this isn't legal fidgy-widgy, but then I doubt IDW would bother reprinting a half-complete story on the off-chance litigation sorts out the rest - if they're touching V3 at all, my guess is they have some sort of arrangement for doing all of the published material (my lose understanding is everything published defaults to Hasbro, whether DW ****ed the creators in the arse over it or not)

adamtrion
2008-10-14, 05:24 PM
OK, not good.

It seems that Classic Transformers, Vol. 3 trade will not include the Headmasters Mini series

As of now, its look like the trade will include issues #(!?31), 32 - 43 or...
issues #33 - 43 + ??? either way I don't see how this trade can collect 14 issues based on the released summery. its either missing 1 or 3 issues unless, as we guessed before, the whole summery is a mistake but if it is, where's IDW control group/guy that handles the press releases?

Denyer
2008-10-14, 05:30 PM
either way I dont see how this trade can collect 14 issues based on there relesed summery.
Ditto. Wondered about it elsewhere, IIRC.

You could email Denton? (That name in lowercase @idwpublishing.com)

Or I'll do it when I get time to fix up new guide pages for the site.

adamtrion
2008-10-14, 08:54 PM
I sent him an e-mail, if he'll respond I will relay his answer regarding the content of the trade

adamtrion
2008-10-15, 08:15 AM
OK, I got a reply very fast and this is the content of the Classic Transformers Trades at least up to vol.4:

Vol 1: #1–16
Vol 2: #17–32
Vol 3: #33–46
Vol 4: #47–61

So it seems that the "Classic Transformers" trades don't collect the additional mini series, maybe they'll be collected together at the end?

Denyer
2008-10-15, 08:27 PM
Yeah, if someone's in the office they're really good with queries.

I wouldn't hold your breath for the story arcs including the Neo-Knights... there's a substantial amount of material that technically can't be reprinted, unless a new agreement's been reached.

Thanks for the info.

adamtrion
2008-10-17, 08:07 PM
I'm not.

Becuase of the big involvement of the Neo-Knight in the last 7 issues it will be very hard to edite them out (even duo I believe the big issue is not with the Neo-Knights but with Circuit Breaker) but theres still a lot of issues IDW could print in the fifth volume

Like: Issues # 62-67, 69-70 and then the uk Earthforce stories that branch out from issue #70 and they could even include the uk stories dealing with thunderwing/Micromasters/Survivoers or... if they don't or can't mix UK stories with US ones then just print the Headmasters series and the TF/G.I.JOE mini (or the Marvel movie adaptation [Heck, they printed BBo2006])

What realy bugs me is why the Headmasters mini wasn't included? I mean. I can think of several reasons why IDW didnt reprint the G.I.JOE crossover, but there was no reason to ommiet the Headmasters series.

Anyway, the end of issue #61 is a very good cliffhanger ending and if someone wants to read what happens next he can get the Titan trade "Best Of Transformers Volume 1".

Let's just hope IDW will at least reprint G2 (with "Ghosts" [and maybe the G.I.JOE lead story]).

inflatable dalek
2008-10-17, 10:52 PM
In a ideal world whatever deal they made with Marvel for #75 [And who knows, perhaps they were just willing to stump up for Marvel's asking price for reprint rights on the one issue they couldn't not represent at some point?] would also extend to the issues immediately before and after (well not The Crap One With The Funny Artist). If not, ending the classics line with natural conclusion of On The Edge... and perhaps a quick "Here's what you could have read" recap of the rest would be the more readable option.

Incidentally, Eye of the Storm also misses out The Crap One With the Funny Artist so The Complete Essential Neo Knights may be some time off.

Last Second Though: Is Circuit Breaker actually seen with the other Knights in US #80?

Cliffjumper
2008-10-17, 11:02 PM
On third thought, the Titan trades for Furman's US material are basically free.

adamtrion
2008-11-22, 01:13 PM
So according amazon.ca it seems that Classic Transformers Volume 4 will be available in june and a new "Transformers: Best of UK Omnibus" (that includes Dinobots, Space Pirats and Time Wars) in August.

Strangely, no word of a "City of Fear" trade (which supposed to collect uk issues #164-171 + ???[I have no idea what issues]) and it also strange that IDW did not include Target 2006 in their Best of UK Omnibus.

Maybe, if IDW will reprint the Pray story then the next omnibus will include Target, Pray and CoF (although "Dinobots" would have fited better before "Pray")

adamtrion
2009-04-02, 10:05 PM
So the two last issues of the IDW "CoF" collecteion are #4 = uk152/3 & #5 = uk170/1

Now, I can understand reprinting uk170/1 beacuse they are a direct follow up to the main CoF story and they lead into uk issues #172/3 that were reprinted in IDW's "Space Pirates" collecteion and I can understand reprinting uk152/3 as they show how/why the sparkbots arrived to earth, I even understand why they reprinted uk152/3 after the main story as they wanted to start stright with CoF (but I hope that for the trade they will be reprinted in the correct order).

What I dont understand is why IDW did not reprint issues uk160/1?

not only the story in those issues fits with the overall name of this collecteion but! it also leads stright to the CoF story and follows uk152/3 events.
IDW could have left out uk170/1 as they do not contribute anything to the overall stroy.

I geuss they decided not to reprint them due to their unwillingless or some other reason that prevented them from reprinting the TF/Action Force crossover and thats a real shame. The story in uk160/1 is a wonderful one. a real soul(spark) searcher.

I hope that IDW will reprint the "Pray" collecteion next, with issues uk101-102, but as they left out uk160/1 they probobly wont reprint uk137/8 and with out those, Shockwave words in uk152 wont make sense for new readers who dont know what he means by them.

adamtrion
2009-05-11, 07:22 PM
So as expected IDW is now reprinting "Pray", lets hope they'll reprint issues #101-102 and dont make a mass of thing like they did on 'CoF".

Cliffjumper
2009-07-31, 06:17 PM
Random update: got the Eye of the Storm Best Of as a belated Xmas gift. As a warning, three or four pages of #75 are shockingly reproduced, as in I could do better with a scanner and my printer. Which is a bit sloppy, as most of it is very sharp. Skips Rhythms, Human Factor and the last page of #75, and further strengthens my believe that Marvel's desire to swing the axe at that point might not have been the worst decision in the world, at least resulting in a final issue that didn't stink. Furman foreword is only about 6/10 on the twatometer too, which is a novelty in itself, though he completely wusses out on giving Dwayne Turner an absolute hammering.

If my brother's best mate's parents got it for me, I guess it's haunting a clearance store somewhere, so anyone interested might want to keep an eye out.

inflatable dalek
2009-07-31, 09:53 PM
It wouldn't be the first three pages of #75 that are shoody? The colours are washed out in my copy of the earlier titan collection, I've never been sure if it was a flaw in the scanning, or a one off fault with the printing of my copy.

Cliffjumper
2009-07-31, 10:27 PM
No, it's the very first one and two later ones - Xaaron/Primus being all explodified, and another one a bit later. It's unusual for Titan, who are generally pretty good at that sort of thing. Actually, everyone's pretty good at that sort of thing, so bad show for them. Guess someone forgot to hit "Auto Contrast" on Picasa.

inflatable dalek
2009-07-31, 10:36 PM
No, it's the very first one and two later ones - Xaaron/Primus being all explodified, and another one a bit later. It's unusual for Titan, who are generally pretty good at that sort of thing. Actually, everyone's pretty good at that sort of thing, so bad show for them. Guess someone forgot to hit "Auto Contrast" on Picasa.


Having now double checked my memory was cheating, it's exactly the same pages in both editions. Assuming it wasn't a problem with the original issue itself (which I guess it wasn't from your comments) it looks as if they cocked up first time round and no one pointed it out to them/they couldn't be arsed to correct it for the second time through.

Though to put my slightly charitable hat on, whoever put the book together clearly didn't have much in the way of budget from Titan to work with (the random mish mash cover screams money for old rope) so new corrective scans may have been out of the question. Not much of an excuse though, a new copy of the issue to use wouldn't have been that much. Hell, they could even have borrowed whatever scans IDW have been using (assuming its not the same ones of course).

Cliffjumper
2009-07-31, 10:44 PM
Trust me from some experience - if they're using (obviously hi-res, industry) scans instead of original artwork (I've no idea of the process behind actually making a trade for general comics that weren't originally made in the digital age, but I'd be fascinated to find out... I know the Steel Claw/Spider books were made with scans, but that was because IPC thoughtfully burnt the original pages in Takara-esque fashion... there's one in the Spider collection, where the strip's first page was the Lion cover and seems to have been batch-processed with the rest, despite being printed on significantly different paper stock and colour palette), the 'error' pages tend to be what raw scans look like, the rest look like scans tend to after the contrast and the like's been sorted (which tends to level out any fading and the like from the pages).

My word, what a long, boring sentence. In this case it likely wasn't caught from the first Titan print, but would've just been plain sloppiness first time round.

inflatable dalek
2009-07-31, 10:55 PM
If memory serves the opening page of ...All This and Civil War 2! is likely a scan as it still includes the Marvel copyright information at the bottom from the original issue (the only Titan reprint to do so). Based on Furman's convention anecdotes at least one of the Headmasters issues is all scans as well, though him saying they had to hunt for certain rather than all or the bulk of issues on Ebay at least suggests they had access to the original masters for most of them. Unless they used Furman's own incomplete collection for the rest?

I know Panini's archive is excellent and contains masters for Marvel UK stuff that predates Transformers but how much access Titan would have been able to gain to that I'm not sure. I do know that some of the pages for the Cattilla arc was clearly taken from a incredibly battered and smudged issue though.

Cliffjumper
2009-07-31, 11:04 PM
Which, when you think about it, as absurd - that's a fairly common issue, and all chippiness aside, I'd gladly have either scanned or lent my copy, which is probably excellent. Why they buy the things instead of just firing up a bat-signal to fans is baffling... I guess they're worried about people being dicks and trying to weedle money out of them, or maybe it's just considered unprofessional (which, as they tend to let people know they're scans, is a bit silly).

inflatable dalek
2009-07-31, 11:16 PM
Though to be completely fair to them, it could be a out of Titan's control printing error that's produced the effect rather than a fault with the scans as such, but to me at least the result really looks more like a sup par original has been used than anything, especially as it's pages from the same issue. Dan Reed's art for Survivors looks terrible as well, but I think that's more a case of the style not shrinking very well than anything.

The fan thing is odd, I know Titan have used help from the James Bond fanbase (well, mainly one very diligent fan) in order to complete their collections of the newspaper strips (all taken from actual newspapers and including stuff neither printed in English nor in the UK). Perhaps their procedure is to only turn to the fans if they can't get copies by other means, even if those copies aren't as good as they might be?

I suppose part of the problem with getting hold of the masters is that, whilst Marvel and Panini may still have them they also don't own the material anymore and without the financial gain there's little incentive to them to go traipsing through the vaults to make someone else cash, and rightly so really. It's not as if their archivists have nothing else to do.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-03, 03:29 PM
So, is the printing of And There Shall Come A Leader in The Best of Optimus Prime book the first time IDW have done a UK story that Titan skipped? Whilst it's at least a bit better that it's a cheap paperback rather than one of those big expensive hardbacks (as Wrath of Grimlock was nearly threatened to be in) it's a shame for those who don't have it it's in amongst a lot of American stories that, for the most part, aren't very good (and in the case of first issue of the Animated Movie adaptation I'm fairly sure has been in another one of their Best Of collections).

An update to something I said in my last post:


The fan thing is odd, I know Titan have used help from the James Bond fanbase (well, mainly one very diligent fan) in order to complete their collections of the newspaper strips (all taken from actual newspapers and including stuff neither printed in English nor in the UK).

For the last few collections they have had access to the Express archives, and as well as high wuality original art to just about every published strip, they also uncovered try out art, unpulished unfinished stories and strips to already replublished stories not previously found due to them only being seen in Scotland. Makes you wonder what TF stuff Panini might have in their archive as well.

I'm also fairly certain now that Titan's version of Vicious Circle used original art as well rather than scans. Goldbug's head colour mistake is corrected throughout and, as Titan themselves only fixed mistakes that had been corrected in previous reprints, suggests to me Marvel fixed it themselves, possibly in preperation for a reprint that never happened. Perhaps they were planning to follow up the Wanted... Galvatron filler reprint with the entire storyline at one point?

adamtrion
2010-11-05, 08:19 PM
Delete by user

Ozz
2010-12-17, 10:35 AM
Hi y'all.

After reading this topic, am I right to assume that old Titan trades are better way to have complete Marvel US run in TPBs?

I don't mind that I'd have to pay more for them than for IDW Classics, I prefer to pay more but have all stories rather than summaries of some of them (the same way I didn't buy cheaper Marvel Essentials but decided to wait for them to put old series in full colour, which eventually happened).

So is there any reason that IDW trades are better than Titan ones other than price?

I see that the only problem might be actually finding some of them (it appears that I can't use Amazon Marketplace).

Re #75 and colours on some pages: I could swear there's the same problem with Polish version of this issue that was released here by Semic in 1995.

Re old post about Micronauts: The ones that were used in Marvel comics from 90's onwards are those they have rights to (weren't based on toys I guess?). They were in Cable, Captain Marvel and in last few years Bug was secondary character in Abnett and Lanning's cosmic stories, while Arcturus Rann and some chick turned up in Hulk spin-offs. I also think they don't call themselves Micronauts anymore, but Microns or something similar.

Cliffjumper
2010-12-17, 01:44 PM
YAY OZZ.

Not seen an IDW Marvel trade, but TBH it's difficult to see what's wrong with Titan's books. The UK ones were spottier due to the arse backwards way they were done, but the US ones were basically faultless (because, let's be honest, no-one wants to randomly read Man of Iron with awful colours even fruther out of sequence, and no-one wants to read Big Broadcast fullstop). Each IDW volume seems to be missing pages or whatever, and while I'm not sure if they've got so far as I understand it here'll be huge problems with the Neo-Knights to come. I can't see how IDW's paper stock would be any better either.

As for price, you'd be surprised - the first four released (the Furman stuff) you can't give away, while the end of run low print ones seem to be quite cheap as well...From experience, the pricier ones are the first couple chronologically, for some reason (underestimating demand for non-Furman material?), but even then we're not talking much more than RRP. But I'd say across the whole lot it probably evens out and a full set wouldn't be that much more expensive than the IDW ones.

inflatable dalek
2010-12-17, 05:15 PM
The IDW books are actually pretty decent in and of themselves (if there's one thing they are good at it's decently presented reprints), but the out of their control need to remove the direct Marvel stuff does mean the Titan books are always going to be the best simply due to having reprinted more. Though the rights issues over the really minor characters were apparently resolved for the later collections, Circuit Breaker and the Neo Knights both show up unedited. Even if the earlier ones were to be reprinted complete at some point down the line though that still means no Spider-Man.

Only proviso I can think of with the Titan stuff is that unless I'm much mistaken (and I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) is Ozz isn't in the UK, and I'm not sure how easy to get hold of they are outside our fair isle when Forbidden Planet seem to be sitting on all the stock. That said, a couple of them were actually still in stock (with very low numbers left) on Amazon proper rather than Marketplace last time I looked whenever I did the Legacy of Unicron review, so that might be worth a butchers as well.

Blackjack
2010-12-18, 12:10 AM
I have bits of both Titan and IDW reprints. Quality wise, Titan is better. IDW's reprint of the Underbase saga completely botched up everyone in the background into vague masses of lines, while in Titan they are clearly printed. Also, at times the ink tone is too dark. That final issue where Bludgeon watches the Decepticons standing over dead Autobots is so dark that Stranglehold, Fangry and the others are blobs of black.

IDW's reprints doesn't have any Circuit Breaker/Spider-Man stories up until the Neo-Knights arc, though. Denyer makes summaries of them, but it isn't just the same.

But IDW reprinted Man of Iron and the Movie Adaptation, and some of the post-Universe profiles included in the comics.

Denyer
2010-12-18, 09:13 AM
Hey Ozz.

Some of the later Titan editions, such as Dark Star, definitely seem to have had smaller print runs -- it took me a while to rebuild/finish my set after losing some of the volumes.

I've got a spare copy of Legacy of Unicron if you need that one from the UK stuff. Just let me know what your address is now.

Some Marketplace sellers will do international shipping but not all -- I don't think there'd be any specific exclusion for mainland Europe, just people not ticking the boxes to sell worldwide.

Cliffjumper
2010-12-18, 04:16 PM
It is a shame you're not UK-based, as - like Dalek says - Forbidden Planet banches often have a random grab-bag reduced.

http://forbiddenplanet.com/?q=Transformers+Titan - not sure if they do international shipping; what's reduced and what isn't seems to be pretty arbitrary, and is completely different to what was and wasn't when I checked in the summer.

I'm always tempted by the hardbacks, hardback T'P'Bs just feel so great, plus the covers on the TF ones are much better than Wildman's Photoshop collages of characters who may or may not appear within.

inflatable dalek
2010-12-18, 06:53 PM
I think the first handful of covers are very good, but they do gradually get worse and worse as it goes on. Presumably he just had more empathy for issues he worked on, but things like Defensor standing like a Big Issue seller, random targetmaster guns transforming badly and trying to sell a book on the recognisability of a Micromaster are all more than a bit crap.

I wish I'd gone for the hardbacks as well now (though wasn't End of the Road a convention exclusive?), it's just so slightly mindblowing to think it's possible to have this silly comic from my childhood in a range of fancy pants editions.

I've told this story before, but I still remember the real excitement of seeing "Transformers: End of the Road" listed amongst a lot of forthcoming Titan stuff in an issue of Dreamwatch. Just before the nostalgia boom kicked off and before I discovered places like this there was nothing to suggest to me anyone else remembered to cared about these comics. A book throwing any issues together was just the most wonderful and unexpected idea. If you'd have told my 21 year old self we'd wind up with just about everything collected multiple times his head would have exploded. It almost feels like we've been spoilt that we've wound in the situation where some of the collections from various publishers aren't as good as they could be.

Ozz
2010-12-20, 05:49 PM
Thanks for replies, guys.

Yeah, the main problem for me is that I'm somehow limited (that might not be the best word, but you get what I mean) to online shops that accept Visa and ship abroad. Between Amazons and US shops like Mile High Comics and My Comic Shop I'm not without options, but it could be better.

I actually don't know any UK-based online shops other than Book Depository. At first glance it looks like Forbidden Planet wants me to pay much more for shipping than for the item itself.

From what I read, I can't use Amazon Marketplace because Poland is not one of the countries there are included in the service. I think if I tried to buy something there and have them ship it here, they wouldn't let me. Which is a shame, because I would use the hell out of it.

I guess I'll check what's available in usual places and then look around if I can find the rest. I see I should have done it earlier.

Cliffjumper
2010-12-20, 05:57 PM
http://silveracre.com is UK-based, and IIRC had respectable international shipping. What their stock and prices for the TPBs are, though, I dunno, or what payment options they accept.

inflatable dalek
2010-12-20, 09:15 PM
It's been a few years since I used them but generally I'd agree with Cliffy, top notch sellers bar the (possibly no longer the case) habit of listing issues as being in stock that aren't.

inflatable dalek
2010-12-24, 03:25 PM
Interesting related development here, in their March solicitations IDW have that months issue of the Classic Doctor Who reprints (a slight misnomer considering the quality of what's in it) has Death's Head's Doctor Who appearance in it:

http://comicnewsi.com/article.php?catid=208&itemid=13223

IDW’s newly recolored reprints of classics Doctor Who tales continue with the Seventh Doctor! See how the Doctor outwits the reptillian ICE WARRIORS in the finale to “A Cold Day in Hell.” Also included are the complete tales “Redemption” and “The Crossroads of Time.” [[That's the one with DH if you don't know] Features an all-new cover by Robert Hack and new colors by Charlie Kirchoff.

So, something different in the deal over Doctor Who (Panini, former Marvel UK with close ties to the old parent company who still own the rights to these strips and get money from them, does that make it easier?)? Or has the latest attempt to relaunch the character once again resulting in the comic he's featured in going tits up almost instantly meant he's been downgraded to Circuit Breaker "Yeah, sure, reprint it and bung us a fiver, we really don't care" level?

The Doctor defeats the Ice Warriors by:

Turning the heating on.

Furman never really got the hang of writing Who.

inflatable dalek
2011-01-25, 07:30 PM
Having been confronted with a whole wall of the Titan hardbacks in Brum today I've bitten the bullet and decided to start collecting them to replace my paperbacks, between that and the Forbbiden Planet website order I've just placed I've now got half the collection (or will do soon anyway, *fingers crossed as I've not ordered from them before and haven't heard great things about their customer service*).

The books themselves are especially lovely, it's just so nice to have this stuff in fancy hardback. And, speaking to the man behind the counter I do have the feeling they petty much do have a warehouse full of the buggers they get fresh boxes from every so often.

Oh, and all the hardbacks (bar End of the Road, which IIRC was a bit different to the others and a convention exclusive or something?) are still in stock on Amazon, though a few are down to their last copies. Though as the prices are higher than two quid each I'll personally hold out on seeing what's in FP next time I'm up Brum around next payday.

So Ozz, if you're still interested in the titan books drop me a PM and I'll do you a deal on the paperbacks that have been duplicated already.

Brimstone
2011-01-25, 07:33 PM
So...did anyone else have trouble getting Vol. 6? My local comic book store seems to have their heads up their butts about this one and don't know what the deal is and never received it. (even though I see it's on Amazon.com!)

inflatable dalek
2011-01-29, 08:32 AM
Here's an odd one, has anyone seen this cover to Primal Scream before? Genuine or some sort of bootleg?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Transformers-Vol-11-Primal-Scream-Simon-Furman-Geo-/180593657312?pt=UK_Books_Comics_Magazines_US_Comics_ET&hash=item2a0c3885e0

Blackjack
2011-01-29, 08:34 AM
I bought one copy of issue 6 from the local bookshop. Bad inking on that last issue of Marvel, too. Basically anyone block-coloured in the shade of dark blue becomes black splotches.

Cliffjumper
2011-01-29, 12:43 PM
Here's an odd one, has anyone seen this cover to Primal Scream before? Genuine or some sort of bootleg?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Transformers-Vol-11-Primal-Scream-Simon-Furman-Geo-/180593657312?pt=UK_Books_Comics_Magazines_US_Comics_ET&hash=item2a0c3885e0

That's the cover from the BotCon exclusive version of All Fall Down.

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/c/c8/All_fall_down_botcon_cover.jpg

Judging by the rest of the listing, someone's just dragged that off Google Images and dropped it in there; it was probably mistakenly used as a mock-up for Amazon or somewhere at some point. That will not be what the book looks like if you buy that auction...

inflatable dalek
2011-01-29, 12:56 PM
Judging by the rest of the listing, someone's just dragged that off Google Images and dropped it in there; it was probably mistakenly used as a mock-up for Amazon or somewhere at some point. That will not be what the book looks like if you buy that auction...

Thanks for the info, I wasn't going to bite as I've already got a Primal Scream shooting my way through the either so I was more curious than anything. Nice to see some Geoff Senior art I didn't know about either.

Having had a proper look at the books I've gotten so far, what really makes them work for me is that unlike most hardback trade paperbacks I've got there's no dust jackets. Which means they look and feel like the old UK Annuals. Which is a very silly reason to like a book but it's strangely comforting, especially as they'll be in the bookcase next to the Annuals.

Furman talks about Titan and the reprints a bit here and confirms various things already talked about in this thread (ie, Titan got the rights for basically nothing pretty much entirely down to Furman's suggestion, Marvel were very cooperative all the way through due to their good relations and so on). Just in case anyone still thinks IDW are still being stupid for not just renaming Spider-Man The Black Eight Legged Thing:

[Be warned, you do have to put up with the interviewer claiming Furman "Created" the characters (take that Bob!) and saying not once but twice what a good job he did when he invented Straxus. Some of the stuff towards the end on the IDW stuff shows perhaps why he mismanaged that so badly, responding to complaints that Infiltration was "Glacial" by doing a bok full or robots just to get those fans to stfu doesn't really deal with the problems in your main arc].

BSyBtqe67uk

Cliffjumper
2011-01-29, 01:22 PM
As a general point in case you didn't twig All Fall Down was the one that was convention only (well, so was Target IIRC, but they didn't do any other UK hardbacks anyway), but a regular version (Howard Chaykin draws Bludgeon) followed I think a year or two later, presumably whenever Titan twigged they were going the whole way.

inflatable dalek
2011-01-29, 01:34 PM
As a general point in case you didn't twig All Fall Down was the one that was convention only (well, so was Target IIRC, but they didn't do any other UK hardbacks anyway), but a regular version (Howard Chaykin draws Bludgeon) followed I think a year or two later, presumably whenever Titan twigged they were going the whole way.

I remembered they didn't do one at the time it was first published but don't think I'd heard of the convention version. Wasn't End of the Road in some way limited as well or am I misremembering?

Considering the range was winding down the sales had gradually fallen it was actually a nice touch they did a mass release All Fall Down hardback as well to let people complete the set, especially going to the effort of making it different art from the Botcon version (reusing may have pissed off the people who brought first time but they'd have been legally OK with it).

Mind, I suppose the hardbacks would have been more likely to have kept steady sales wise as anyone likely to pay twenty quid was likely to stay the course.


Target: 2006 actually seems to be fairly easy to get hold of (Forbidden Planet are selling it for a fiver for example). I suspect a minimum print run would be larger than the average convention attendance of the time and having to do a second run to correct the printing mistake probably resulted in a fair few surplus copies running around. I guess FP picked them up from the same warehouse they're getting all the other hardbacks from.

inflatable dalek
2011-01-31, 08:51 PM
I've bitten the bullet and decided to start collecting them to replace my paperbacks, between that and the Forbbiden Planet website order I've just placed I've now got half the collection (or will do soon anyway, *fingers crossed as I've not ordered from them before and haven't heard great things about their customer service*).


Yeah, so much for crossed fingers. Seems that just because they have the hardback art on the order page doesn't mean that it's actually going to be the hardback they send you. Anyone thinking of ordering anything be sure not to be a berk like me and check it has [HARDBACK] after the title to be absolutely sure.

Luckily it's only two pounds lost if they get funny about a refund/exchange (technically it's not the product as advertised, but they're no doubt covered by the usual "Cover art may not be exact" thing and it doesn't actually say it's the hardback anywhere on the page). If they don't though I'll be cancelling my still processing Beginnings order.

Ozz
2011-02-01, 09:17 PM
Did they at least list correct ISBN number? That's something I expect I can trust if the title and/or cover art are suspicious. Thanks to comparing ISBNs between two Amazons I just got this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Realm-Kings-Imperial-Guard-TPB/dp/0785145974/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1296594750&sr=1-2) for half the price it should be sold for. At least now I don't feel I had to pay for that Hulk crap that fills quarter of this book. :o

inflatable dalek
2011-02-01, 09:34 PM
It would seem so. Though as they've yet to bother to reply to my message (and remember, we're not talking some little Ebay seller here but a major company) I'm keeping the moral high ground. Bastards.

Cliffjumper
2011-02-01, 10:11 PM
Major company's a bit of a push for Forbidden Planet, isn't it? I suspect staff are too busy comparing Johnny the Homicidal Maniac t-shirts to do customer service...

adamtrion
2011-03-17, 08:52 PM
It seems IDW decided to republish TF: Generation as TF: Classic vol.1 - why? is it a test run before they republish a remastered Classic TF trades?any thoughts?

http://i.newsarama.com/images/TRANSFORMERS_Classic_Vol1_cover.jpg


Transformers Classics, Vol. 1
Bob Budiansky, Bill Mantlo, Ralph Macchio, Jim Salicrup (w) • Frank Springer, Alan Kupperberg, William Johnson, Mike Manley, Ricardo Villamonte, Herb Trimpe, Don Perlin (a) • Guido Guidi (c)
Relive the original Transformers stories that started it all—now re-mastered and re-presented! Pulling from the original '80s Marvel material, this first volume offers some of the most beloved stories from TRANSFORMERS' history, including the seminal "Car Wash of Doom," "Crater Critters," "Warrior School!" and many others in their entirety.
TPB • FC • $24.99 • 276 Pages • ISBN: 978-1-60010-935-5

Sales Points:
Now re-mastered and re-collected!

adamtrion
2011-03-25, 06:28 PM
This is the best news I read all year!

Transformers Classics: UK Volume 1 [Paperback]
Bill Mantlo (Author), Ralph Macchio (Author), Jim Salicrup (Author), Steve Parkhouse (Author), Simon Furman (Author), Frank Springer (Author), John Ridgway (Author), Mike Collins (Author)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Classic Transformers tales from the UK continuity begins here! Re-mastered and re-colored, these vintage Transformers stories are presented in chronological order, many published for the first time in the United States! Writer and life-long Transformers fan James Roberts provides in-depth, historical perspective in each volume, and Transformers UK artist Andrew Wildman provides new covers.

http://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Classics-UK-Bill-Mantlo/dp/1600109438/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301027540&sr=1-5

inflatable dalek
2011-03-25, 06:48 PM
So a proper, chronological ordering of all the Marvel stuff? That's brilliant! If slightly annoying as I'm only two books short of getting all the Titan hardbacks. But you know, if they do this, and most importantly of all, do it right (presenting all the covers including those for the US reprints, splitting each US issue in half again might be a bit too intrusive but at least make sure all the dialogue changes that affect the plots get carried over. Will they leave those two pages out the first issue?) they will actually have a sale here. I've been wanting this since for years, so it would disingenuous not to fully support this. I'm actually genuinely excited.

From the look of it, we getting up to at least Enemy With in this book then? With Raiders being a strong contender as well, putting all the early coy "Ah yes, when exactly?" UK stuff together and kicking off the second book with the début of Bob on writing.

adamtrion
2011-03-26, 12:01 AM
There are 3 major things to consider here

1.IDW has the G.I.Joe license but do they have the Action Force license as well?

2.What they’ll do with the Death’s Head issues? A summery or complete reprint? And if there’re going with a complete reprint what about Circuit Breaker and Spider-Man?

3I don’t think IDW will go the way of “a proper, chronological ordering of all the Marvel stuff” (meaning, chronologically based on story elements) but chronologically based on date of publication but if I’m wrong - where are they going to place “Earthfoce” which leads to a splinter reality?

inflatable dalek
2011-03-26, 08:47 AM
Oh sure, I was talking publishing chronology rather than timeline. Else it'd be kicking off with State Games. I wouldn't be totally surprised if the B&W stuff gets put together in the last book just for ease of reading, breaking up the US strips that much (with the Joe crossover as well!) would be a bit unfair on them.

IDW have reprinted (or at least are about to) Death's Heads showing in Doctor Who Magazine so presumably they're going to be OK with his TF stuff, indeed, it'd be fairly pointless even attempting this if you couldn't touch such a large chunk of material. Spider-Man's likely to be the only one stiff off limits to them.

Denyer
2011-03-28, 01:24 PM
It's a nice idea, and if there's a lot of commentary rather than just a couple of essays per book (i.e. similar to what's been online for years) I might go for it. The notion of re-colouring material is a bit odd, though.

A volume of full-size b&w stories (coloured or not) would definitely be a sale.

a proper, chronological ordering of all the Marvel stuff?
Haven't we learnt by now not to trust advertising copy?

inflatable dalek
2011-03-28, 01:36 PM
It's a nice idea, and if there's a lot of commentary rather than just a couple of essays per book (i.e. similar to what's been online for years) I might go for it. The notion of re-colouring material is a bit odd, though.

Yeah, I can see the appeal in jazzing up the American colouring (which is abysmal and both the recoloured Joe stuff and Dark Horses Marvel Star Wars stuff looks very lovely) but the British stuff generally still kicks ass. Though if it just boils down to being part of the remastering process and they'll match the original as closely as possible I guess it's harmless enough. Though if they're being as authentic as possible that does raise the question about the early hale B&W issues.

A volume of full-size b&w stories (coloured or not) would definitely be a sale.

Yep, surprised it hasn't happened already to be honest considering of all the previously collected matterial a decent size and paper quality reprint of the B&W stuff is something people would likely most want to see. It would probably all fit in one of those Omnibus books as well. Also have no problem with it being coloured either as, unlike, say, the Marvel Doctor Who stuff, most of the artists clearly aren't drawing with B&W in mind (hello Mr. Wildman and you world of empty white backgrounds).


Haven't we learnt by now not to trust advertising copy?

True, some la de dah common sense merchant at the IDW forums has suggested the credits for the American team in the solicitation is just a mistake and it'll just be the UK stuff alone. After all, is it really worth representing the US material again just for the sake of spelling colour right?

Ozz
2011-04-04, 06:56 AM
IDW is going to reprint hardcovers with original art from Marvel's comics, starting with Walt Simonson's Thor. This piece of info hit the web on Friday, but so far I haven't found anything suggesting that it was a joke.

I wonder if it means anything in the context of future Marvel's TFs reprints.

Cliffjumper
2011-04-04, 05:37 PM
Classic Transformers tales from the UK continuity begins here!

YAY!

Re-mastered and re-colored, these vintage Transformers stories are presented in chronological order, many published for the first time in the United States!

YAY!

Writer and life-long Transformers fan James Roberts provides in-depth, historical perspective in each volume,

YAY!

and Transformers UK artist Andrew Wildman provides new covers.

Yaaa... Ah. Any chance they'll be getting professional artists who can draw in to do alternate covers, or is my Man of Iron cover going to have Runamuck, Ramhorn's cassette mode and a bit of Skyhammer on it?

Eh, what am I talking about, I've got the whole run in complete "not ****ed around with by morons for the sake of ****ing around" format.

inflatable dalek
2011-04-08, 07:00 PM
According to Transfans (what, you expect me to check the IDW forum directly?), the content is all UK and includes the following:

Man of Iron
The Enemy Within
Raiders of the Last Ark
Decepticon Dambusters
Wrath of Guardian/Wrath of Grimlock
Christmas Breaker!
Crisis of Command
A Plague of Insecticons
...And There Shall Come A Leader
Missing In Action (text story)
Hunted! (text story)

Rather nicely, I think that's all the main comic stuff (bar Ancient Relics) not yet collected together in any book in one place. Plus they're doing all the fictional content of the Annuals as well, which is unexpected, but nice (I wonder if that will extend to the "Story so far" recap things that had framing devices?).

So that's this book at least I'll be picking up, just to have these stories on the bookcase. The rest will depend on what Robert's contribution is like.

Denyer
2011-04-08, 09:26 PM
Have they already done State Games and Peace, then?

Wonder if Ghosts will also get dusted off at some point.

Cliffjumper
2011-04-09, 03:49 AM
Have they already done State Games and Peace, then?

Wonder if Ghosts will also get dusted off at some point.

State Games'd be in the next one... wouldn't it?

inflatable dalek
2011-04-09, 02:21 PM
Yep.

As far as I'm aware none of the text stories have ever been reprinted before (unless you want to stretch to include the summary of what happened on Cybertron in the Titan Target: 2006 book). And There Shall Come A Leader... was in the Best of Optimus Prime book, but I don't think any of the other uncollected Annual stories (which would be just Peace and To A Power Unknown right?) have been done by IDW.

Terome
2011-04-14, 06:04 AM
Rather sweetly, it seems that the scans of all this material comes from James Roberts' personal collection.

So says Andy Schmidt in an interview on Moonbase 2. (http://moonbase2.madmooseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9931)

inflatable dalek
2011-05-13, 10:49 PM
I picked up the Omnibus of the Armada series today (as I'm planning to either sell on or burn my DW and IDW inderviduals and am just cherry picking what I want in trades. Yes, I still like Armada for my sins. The last issue was actually better than I remembered as well. Though as I remembered it being shit "Not so bad up till it suddenly just stops in a shit way" isn't that much of an improvement) and too many of the pages looked like amazingly bad scans.

Now this is a comic that isn't even ten years old yet, even if IDW don't have access to the original masters because Pat Lee stuck them in a strippers bra it really shouldn't have been that hard for IDW to get decent high quality scans of the material (as they seem to have for the bulk of the pages, it's the last few issues that really struggle). I really hope they can do better with much older material than this. God knows what Raiders might end up looking like...

[They also manage to include some brand new misplaced speech bubbles as well, as Prime's conversation with Jetfire when he comes to rescue him from Spinster gets duplicated a few pages earlier. Sloppy stuff, considering they've apparently added new errors to the GI Joe issues Marvel didn't reprint I'm actually dreading to think what they'll do with a full remaster of the Marvel stuff].

inflatable dalek
2011-06-15, 07:44 PM
So my cunning plan to get all the Titan hardbacks is in danger of coming a cropper due to the Showdown book being seemingly impossible to get at a non silly price (or at least from a source I'd trust, there's one person selling it for a tenner on Amazon Marketplace but the entry calls it a paperback despite the ISBN being for the hardback and it being on the hardback page). Nothing on Ebay, did they only print like six copies?

inflatable dalek
2011-08-24, 07:09 AM
A tripple post of power!

The Wiki entry on the book has Wildman's work in progress (well. at least I'm hoping it'll be in colour) cover to the first UK reprints book. Now, I know it's unfair to judge an unfinished piece of work... but it is a bit cack:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Image:Classicuk1.jpg

I've genuinely no idea who that's supposed to be beneath Megatron, and I really hope the odd gangly old man penis hand thing Prime seems to have going on is going to be sorted out for the final cover.

Oh, and I completed my Titan hardback collection! Yay me:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150266630194219&set=a.10150194261529219.317413.611524218&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150266630159219&set=a.10150194261529219.317413.611524218&type=1&theater