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zigzagger
2008-10-03, 08:57 PM
The end has come. Revelation concludes here as the cast makes a mad dash to the finish line! This is your all purpose, no holds barred, Spotlight: Sideswipe - Revelation Part 4 reaction and discussion thread. Come, tell us what you thought.

Due to arrive October 8th according to grahamcrackers.com release schedule.
http://www.grahamcrackers.com/newcomics.htm

Blackjack
2008-10-07, 03:15 PM
Finally! According to Furman's blog, the ending may be unexpected. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

Sideswipe and Sunstreaker have a twist to their relationship... Wonder what it is?

Ooh... Interesting!

Halfshell
2008-10-07, 03:20 PM
Finally! According to Furman's blog, the ending may be unexpected. Riiiiiiiiiiight.

By some. Which is a fair comment, because different people expect different things. ;)

Sideswipe and Sunstreaker have a twist to their relationship... Wonder what it is?

[/has read the 5-page preview, so knows] :(

Red Dave Prime
2008-10-08, 11:08 AM
Yeah, I regret reading that 5 page preview. Like looking at your christmas presents before the big day. Plus now theres only 17 pages left! My initial feeling is that this wont be able to go out on a massive high but it could still be a decent enough ending.

And the magnificance still bugs me. The worst plot device ever. Hands down. Even worse than that dallas-bobby-in-the-shower-its-all-a-dream thing.

Commander Shockwav
2008-10-08, 10:51 PM
Huh. That was actually a strong finish to something that held the potential for disaster. Like most, I was very worried about how this would end.

Instead, we get one of the greatest artistic performances in TF comic history and a deftly handled conclusion to a convoluted story that seemed to have no chance of finding a decent finish in the four spotlight issues it was allotted.

E.J.'s performance is spectacular, to say the least, the highlight of not only Revelations but of IDW's stint since tackling the Transformers. Not having been E.J.'s biggest fan, he certainly won me over here and accomplished something artistically that even the Roches and Figueroas of the world have to envy.

And again, as with the first two issues of this series, I have to credit Simon for making this story pallatable in the face of ridiculous constrictions placed upon him. Was it perfect? No. There were many gaps in the story that needed to be filled, and were either inadequately brought to conclusion, or simply ignored altogether. Again, no fault of Simon's.

It just really hurts to know that IDW could have given Simon two more measly issues to work with, and nobody would have suffered in the least from it, yet we would have had a much stronger finish. A finish that would have likely earned it's place amongst the great TF comic epics of the past like Target 2006.

Didn't like to see all the Con bigwigs get wasted in one fashion or other. Here's to hoping IDW gives Simon or Shane a chance to continue with these guys at some point. I guess potentially, we could see them again. None of them really got blown to bits. Granted, Jhiaxus didn't look too hot, but it was clearly stated the guy can't be killed while on Gorlam Prime.

Objectively speaking, without regard to the situation under which this story was presented, I would give this a "B". But despite it's flaws, this issue gets an "A" from me. Primarily because I can appreciate the challenge presented to Simon in doing this event justice and exceeding mine, and probably many others, expectations here. And certainly, with E.J.'s masterful performance, the flaws inherent here aren't even worth discussing.

Yep, an "A".

Potatobot
2008-10-09, 05:34 AM
it felt too squeezed together.
the fight between sideswipe and grindcore (worst name ever) and straxus couldve been a whole issue in of itself but instead they're super tuff in one panel and super beat in the other.
it would have been nice seeing sideswipe use skill and stubborness to wear them down forcing them to run out of time(energy?) early since they cant last as long as galvatron.

how did they get past monstructor and sixshot?????
was jetfire supposed to be logged into all three guardians?
that couldve also been an entire issue in of itself with more time spent on the 4 new pretenders and them dealing with the new power....

Unicron
2008-10-09, 07:26 AM
how did they get past monstructor and sixshot?????
was jetfire supposed to be logged into all three guardians?

My impression was that they had teams distracting Monstructor, Sixshot and even Thunderwing, while Hound's crew used the spacebridge on Earth to sneak in behind the guardians in order to get at the nega-cores.

And yeah, I agree they crammed a little too much in at the expense of things that should have gotten more time (like the Pretenders, Sideswipe's fight on Earth, The Prime fight and such, Bludgeon even). But they managed to wrap it (almost) all up in a way that wasn't as incredibly stupid or horrible as I had expected. Well, except for the Magic 8-Ball. But atleast that was something they set up in an earlier comic, so its not like they just made up something at the last minute.

Rossum
2008-10-09, 02:27 PM
I'm surprised at the somewhat lackluster reactions from a lot of people so far. I'm inclined to agree with Commander Shockwav that the issue's flaws are largely a result of the shortened arc, and it's worth looking past those in evaluating the story. It was a good read, with a fair share of memorable moments, and the art gave the whole thing a boost.

And yeah, I agree they crammed a little too much in at the expense of things that should have gotten more time (like the Pretenders, Sideswipe's fight on Earth, The Prime fight and such, Bludgeon even). But they managed to wrap it (almost) all up in a way that wasn't as incredibly stupid or horrible as I had expected.

I think I appreciate this more than anything; Simon Furman managed to wrap up the arc and most of the plot lines in a convincing way (with a nod to the Earth events, even), without resorting to any more Magnificence-type devices. Nothing felt quite as epic or exciting as it should have, but again, that's more likely a result of not having time to build things up properly. And for me, there were at least a few unexpected parts - Sideswipe's dislike and abandonment of Sunstreaker and Galavatron taking up the Darkness.

I think Revelation is going to read very oddly as a follow-on to Infiltration, Escalation and Devastation, unfortunately. It almost works better taken as a side story, given that the previous main characters (Ratchet, his pet humans, all the other Autobots from the Earth team) get little or no mention.

Red Dave Prime
2008-10-09, 05:32 PM
Some good, some bad. Everythings so crammed together, I'm just left wondering how things were meant to be played out. Yeah, things were obviously speeded up but how much things changed from the original plan would be enlightening. Was sideswipe really meant to just beat down grindcore and straxus? Bearing that in mind they should have just had one opponent for him because it was a bit unbelieveable.

Was the magic 8-ball really meant to reveal everything? I hope not because it would make me lose faith in Furmans ability to write a story.

Also the way the autobots got around the gaurdians was a bit farcical (sixshot seems to have just sat outside his cave the whole time!), altough the single panl of monstroctur versus the combaticons was excellent.

Credit it where its due, the art is lovely and the story just about holds together but I cant rate the issue as highly as others just because they over did the slow playing of arcs 2 and 3 (infiltration works fine for me).

Onefinal thought, Jetfires monologue at the end opens up some very interesting questions. I originally assumed it that megatron would be defeated once and for all by the autobots in AHM but now I'm thinking that shockwave may take him down. If nothing else the future for the IDW series still looks interesting.

zigzagger
2008-10-09, 11:42 PM
Out of curiosity, how will this be formatted for the trade version? I've managed to miss news on this (edit: I'm going to do some sleuthing). Will it still receive the Spotlight caption, or will the trade simply be referred to as Revelation? Or, as we've read them - both? Just curious is all, though I'd imagine a TPB being called Transformers: Revelation would more...accessible to newer readers. But whatever. I guess it's not that important. At least the lot of us understand the format, right...convoluted as it might seem.

And no, I haven't received my copy yet. The local comicbook shops (the shops near campus) for some odd reason weren't carrying it, though they usually carry the Spotlights :(. So, I ordered mine. Sigh, seems to happen to me when a story arc is about to conclude itself, that I can't seem to get my mits on the final issue. I'm patient though.

Tornatron
2008-10-10, 12:56 AM
I must say that I am very dissapointed with revelations, but not with the story telling of Furman, but with IDW, why could this have not been a six part story that way so Furman could actually explain some things

like maybe i missed this but, what was the hole point of expansion, what is the darkness, how was skyfire just able to perfect the pretender process

Im very dissapointed that 2 and a half yr setup was just brisked away into 4 issues, for lack of a better term I feel cheated, it's hard to understand how this gets 4 issues and max dino's gets 5 and all hail gets 12, doesn't make any sense

I hope shane gets it right with AHM, if not I can't see myself staying on with IDW and this is coming from somebody who buys everything IDW puts out TF related, simply because I love having new TF stories, but if there going to do stuff like this I can't hang around

Red Dave Prime
2008-10-10, 01:05 AM
I'd guess that the dead universe characters and plot were seen as less mainstream as the Dinobots and the somewhat more regular (i.e. toy based) Scorponok and co. But yeah, this should at least have gotten the six issue arc. Spotlight Nemisis prime and Spotlight Jetfire would seem the most obvious 2 to me.

Starfield
2008-10-10, 03:54 PM
Looks great! Some panels look positively CGI to me. I'm probably demonstrating my ignorance of modern comic books (are they all "computer generated" nowadays?), but some really do have more of a CGI feel to them than normal.

Vida
2008-10-10, 04:06 PM
So I need a bit of an explanation here. Does that mean there are two cybertrons then? The one the Autobots/Decepticons are from and this new one? Also, why didnt Bludgeon murder Jetfire on the spot as compared to just holding his sword near his neck threatingly? All this stuff mashed together really had me confused and I guess I really do need to re-read this one. Also, can someone remind me how that humanoid type world turned 'cybertronian'? Was it from the bots trapped in the deadverse?

Sorry for all the questions that I should probably already know the answers too...

But I have to agree, it did feel like a cheap end and anticlimactic. Could have been soooo much more with a few more issues.

-Tony Vida; TK 3204; Austin, Tx

Red Dave Prime
2008-10-11, 12:09 AM
Ok, I cant say this is exactly what happens but I THINK...

Jet fires end speech is coming after quite a few years. He talks of the machination empire (maximum dinobots), Megatrons full on assault (All Hail Megatron) and the return of Shockwave (an as-yet untitled series I assume). During this time golorin prime (sorry about the spelling) evolved from organic to full on cybernetic (it was half way through this stage when spotlight:nightbeat occured)

At some point the planet went into a sort of down stasis to complete the change over (spotlight:hardhead). While its never stated, the involvement of the micromasters and possible the dead universe crew themselves seems to have helped the evolution along. Its possible the micromasters are the result of Jhiaxus interfering or some of the natural populace helping/ in thrall the the dead universe bots.

My guess is that this interference/ assistence has sub-counsciously affected the evolution of the planet and its possible thats why it has ended up as cybertron mark 2 if you will.

Again, its a bit unclear so this is only how I see it. Hope that helps.

inflatable dalek
2008-10-11, 02:57 PM
Stunning, absolutely stunning art. EJ's very best work and a good contender for the best stuff IDW have done to date. It really did hold things together in a better way than last months did.

As for the story, well, pretty much every page had a great moment on it, the reveal of the Pretenders, Hardhead Ex Machina and Jhiaxus' final fate all amongst them. The problem was it felt like there was about 50 pages missing between each one in the issue. hugely disjointed and frequently confusing. Arcee and Banzaitron's alliance being reduced to one panel with them and some random Decepticons fighting Monstructor, Galvatron just showing up out of no where, the other Dead universe cast being pointless, no explanation of what happened to Hardhead next (if he can't die and thr Dead Universe has been destroyed does that mean he spends the rest of time having to watch Arcee get her kicks?), no real explanation of what The Darkness was nor what its goals were (basically Furman might as well have done the full on evil Matrix again. Speaking of which, does Optimus have the Matrix or not? I'm still not sure), Cyclonsu taking far to long to destroy an underarmed science vessel...

Lots of these problems can be put down to the rushed ending but the biggest can't, and that is that the last two issues were Spotlights on the wrong people. Dealer and Sideswipe's arcs were irrelevant to the Dead Universe plot and should either have been delt with in Maximim Dinobots or simply left behind so that the stuff that did get focused on got enough attention. As said above, it should have been Spotlight Nemesis Prime and Jetfire.

EDIT: And Machination Empire really doesn't gell with hardly anyone in AHM being aware of the evil terrorist controlled robots and mistaking them for film stars does it?

Rossum
2008-10-11, 05:17 PM
EDIT: And Machination Empire really doesn't gel with hardly anyone in AHM being aware of the evil terrorist controlled robots and mistaking them for film stars does it?

Nnnnope.

More and more I wonder why they decided to have AHM be in continuity with the -tions. Not only does it dampen the effectiveness of the events of Revelation and Maximum Dinobots, but it's placed a burden on AHM to stay consistent with them, something that obviously wasn't expected when the story was thought up.

Denyer
2008-10-11, 05:42 PM
Beautiful, and by comparison a lot of other art that's been seen on Transformers over the years is doodling on the back of highschool notebooks. Something that's emphasised by going from Khanna to Su in the last two issues. If the whole thing was done in this style, most of us would probably be too slack-jawed to poke at the plot, even as compressed as it's been in Revelation.

This issue, far less than the previous one, felt dense and fast-paced rather than actually rushed. The six pages or so that are devoted to Sideswipe aren't a bad character spotlight, though with similar ratios in the other three issues and retailers being set against ordering Spotlight comics... the decision to run this arc as Spotlights seems likely to have have a main outcome of diminishing support for them even more. People can't just pick up a comic about a character they like and expect to know what the hell's going on. In that sense, quite a number of the Spotlights are self-limiting their appeal. Maybe the next series of them will be genuinely standalone and pull sales back, I don't know, but things don't look good on that score.

Stuff I really liked... not too much dwelling on fights and the 'new' grunts from the Dead Universe. The sense that dealing with Nova and the rest is, to an extent, another threat du jour, business as usual and that the Autobot army is stunningly effective at working together once mobilised -- which they'd have to be to have survived these many millennia. Arcee confronting Jhiaxus, and the comic relief of the scene later on in the issue. The feeling of threads coming together. Sideswipe's reassessment and "I Just Don't Care" -- everyone's had one of those type of realignments of values at some time or other.

The Magnificence is something I felt should really have been addressed more on-panel last issue. The fact it's a device that can apparently interrogate space-time and read current events, possibly past ones (and in all likelihood read minds) isn't really the problem. We get stuff like that all the time in Star Trek and Doctor Who. It's the unbalancing effect of leaving this part-explained and open-ended...

...I mean, considering how many panels of Spotlight: Doubledealer were dedicated to climbing a rock, with art that was functional at best, would it'd've killed to throw in brief speculation from Hot Rod as to what the thing is, and a "whoops, it seems to have [turn to camera] blown itself out querying events half the galaxy away"? Just a bit of closure on the insanely powerful macguffin and some guess as to what it was / how it worked within the context of the story, y'know?

This needs dealing with before any other storylines in which it would be the deciding factor take place. As it stands, there's no good reason at all why the Autobots wouldn't see coming anything that could result in a large-scale Decepticon victory and it makes AHM feel even more out-of-place and barely in continuity.

"The Machination Empire" makes me hopeful that Maximum Dinobots won't be too Earth-centred... and that maybe we'll get a Shockwave story that does justice to the effect his actions have had upon the plot as a whole. Jetfire's talking some time in the future, so it's even possible the Shockwave strand could come up in AHM (what I assume's being alluded to with "Megatron's all-out assault" and the Shockwave bit follows it in the sentence.)

Hardhead would benefit from some follow-up, but I suspect is going to be stuck in a lonely vigil on Gorlam Prime (something else that also richly deserves follow-up and defence, as it should be a very attractive target -- not to mention something that the inhabitants of other planets in the area would be rightly nervous and concerned about.)

Anyway, solely on the basis of this comic, rather than what's gone before, this is the best TF stuff to come out of IDW. 10/10.

Commander Shockwav
2008-10-11, 06:16 PM
Despite the compact nature of this issue and the frantic wrapping up of plot threads, there are still so many open-ended questions remaining from this that one thing is absolutely essential to the future of IDW's Transformers success.

And that is, Shane and Simon have to be on the same page.

They have to communicate. In no way does Revelations provide all the answers, yet it has impacted just about every bot in the TF universe in some way or another.

Shane has no choice now but to at least acknowledge what Furman has done, and work off of that. If he wants to take things in that new direction, that's all well and good. But work from what Furman's given him.

Otherwise, there's going to be chaos.

Denyer
2008-10-11, 06:21 PM
I can see how a few things could work out, but mostly I'm with Sideswipe in not particularly caring... we'll see what Max Dinos comes up with, but if that's the wrap point for collecting I'm not going to be too upset. Having mixed feelings about a company that's done a great many good things but also presented some severe editing difficulties (not just typos and production problems, things like Megatron: Origin getting to press without changes, shortchanging this series after over two years of build-up, etc... there's been a waste of potential.)

Terome
2008-10-11, 08:55 PM
Art yes, truncated story but nice ideas yes. It is comforting to know that the IDWniverse now has a sufficient number of holes in to inspire a whole new generation of Transformers readers to put on their thinking caps and fill them in without the drag factor of monthly deadlines, realities of the modern publishing industry or a slightly worrisome editorial policy. Give it a few years and we'll have Eugenesises cropping up all over the place.

Halfshell
2008-10-13, 05:00 PM
Solar Pool?

Pardon? What?

Eh?

Terome
2008-10-13, 05:09 PM
You know, like the bottomless pit that Shockwave keeps in his office. Just be thankful that the whole prison colony didn't blow up this time.

Halfshell
2008-10-13, 05:13 PM
I love the fact that the Epic Showdown between Primes consisted of:

- They stand about talking for a bit
- Nemesis zaps Optimus with THE EVIL MATRIX a few times
- Optimus says THE EVIL MATRIX wants to move to him
- Galvatron turns up and shoots Nemesis, then absorbs THE EVIL MATRIX himself
- Optimus throws Galvatron into The Magical Doom Portal That I'm Sure Wasn't There Earlier

I mean climactic's not quite the word.

Looked pretty though.

Terome
2008-10-13, 05:23 PM
You've got to wonder what Optimus' plan, going in there, was in the first. It was only an incredibly bizarre string of flukes that saved his hide. And never mind the solar pool, how'd Galvatron get there? Wasn't he in space with Cyclonus a second ago?

The solar pool is great stuff though. Along with Sixshot's pencil-graphite armour, it's another totally harmless thing that seems to befuddle Transformers no end. Galvatron has spent almost all of his page-space so far flying around in space and getting blown up and being shot in the head. Guess the puddle of sunshine didn't really do the trick, everyone.

The upside is that we now know that Galvatron's gun is the second gun in the IDWniverse that has been shown to actually work. It must be Jhiaxus' way out crazy technology. Or maybe it's made out of peanuts or something.

inflatable dalek
2008-10-13, 06:51 PM
My multi step guide to how I'd have made this series better (that's better, not necessaries good. That might have been to much of a challenge considering the constraints). This means loosing some nice indervidual bits, but I think increasing the overall strength of the comic:

The big one first, loose everything about Dealer and Sideswipe (though keep the latter as a grunt in the battle). Then use the extra space for the following:

Instead of the Magnificence have Jetfire and the others work out the DU plan through a chain of logical deduction (not really that hard with some careful writing).

Lose the Arcee Banzaitron team up, she gets to the Decepticon base and finds them all dead but then follows the trail using her tracking skills. Show her finding Mosntructor on the planet and calling into Fort Max so he knows where she is (and where one of the Nega Cores is. Factor in Ultra Magnus could make the Bhul connection himself and you don't need the Magnificence at all for that) before taking him on single handed in a battle of the freaks.

Drop the Pretenders. When the Nega Cores are collected have Ultra Magnus go with Arcee to Gorlam and be ready to make the ultimate sacrifice himself by going into the pool with them... Only for the now undead Hardhead to pop out and insist on doing it himself (a shameless rehash of Impactors death, but far better than a shameless rehash of "Look at this never seen before hole in the floor". Plus deals with Hardhead's fate).

Use the extra space freed up by the above for the following-

A better sense of people travelling from place to place, most specifically establish Galvatron arriving at Garrus and blasting his way in (making it look like he's come to help his boss).

Better and more elaborate fight scene between the two Prime's, not forgetting the fact Nemesis is supposed to be a semi sympathetic character who just wants to go home. Rather than "The Darkness" he just has the Matrix. It isn't evil or tainted but once it actually has the option to leave the guy who has renounced his role and go to another more suitable candidate it does, which is what starts to give Optimus the edge in the battle (and have this be Prime's plan all along so he doesn't seem to be winging it so badly). [Alternately, if you want to keep the Eviltrix make sure a cliffhanger is prime being taken over by the evil Twin Peaks style].

Galvatron arrives and finishes off Nemesis, and demands the Matrix for himself lest he use his death grip on Prime. But now joined with the Matrix for the first time ever Optimus makes short work of him [not perfect, but using a already established McGuffin rather than having a brand new one just show up out of no where is a better alternative].

Throw into the mix: Giving Sixshot something to do (fighting another team of Autobots in a more on screen battle), have Ultra Magnus zap Arcee and take her back to prison, drop Grindcore and have Cyclonus on Earth instead (as he no longer has any Pretenders to fight).

Terome
2008-10-13, 07:13 PM
^ Yes, that sounds like it would produce something that would have made a lot more sense. It's been suggested a few times on the various boards that Nemesis Prime and Jetfire would have made better Spotlight candidates, which is something I'd agree with too.

It's pretty impressive just how much the Autobots manage to accomplish with absolutely no communication with Optimus at all. All that rumination on the Autobot command structure seemed to go right out the window, with everyone taking their orders from some cop, to astounding success. I guess Ultra Magnus, Jetfire and Fortress Maximus just kind of lose their moxy in between this and All Hail Megatron. Money is on Jetfire becoming a Decepticon again, Ultra Magnus being reluctant to take command and Fortress Maximus suddenly becoming a pacifist. Takers?

But mark my words, the sheer wackiness, nay, zaniness of Revelation will assure its longevity in the Annals Of Fondness for years to come. If Call Of The Stupid Goddamn Primitives can coast by in the fandom memory on what people call, in the face of all evidence, 'good art,' then I reckon Revelation is practically immortal.

Denyer
2008-10-13, 07:19 PM
Money is on Jetfire becoming a Decepticon again, Ultra Magnus being reluctant to take command and Fortress Maximus suddenly becoming a pacifist. Takers?
Money is on the author of AHM not really having thought much about characters introduced in the post-Movie era or who didn't get screen time. And no reference whatsoever to there being an entire other planet of Transformers now...

Terome
2008-10-13, 07:24 PM
Money is on the author of AHM not really having thought much about characters introduced in the post-Movie era or who didn't get screen time. And no reference whatsoever to there being an entire other planet of Transformers now...

Yeah, me too. I was being kind...

inflatable dalek
2008-10-13, 07:26 PM
Well, Fort Max deserves to be demoted anyway. Not only does the top security prison he runs get broken into twice in a week, not only does he have the strange policy of keeping the prisoners guns with their bodies, not only can Galvatron just wander in without being noticed but he keeps a dangerous solar pool in the middle of the floor without so much as a "Watch your step" sign.

Terome
2008-10-13, 07:30 PM
I'd love to see the various cock-ups the cast has committed (Optimus especially) be addressed further down the line. I don't have much hope of this happening. But it would be nice to have Prowl or someone assess / recap the whole of Revelation with a critical tone.

Halfshell
2008-10-13, 07:49 PM
And no reference whatsoever to there being an entire other planet of Transformers now...

Not necessarily "now" - the epilogue seems set way off in t'future, post-Maximum Dinobots, post-AHM, post-whenever-Shockwave-resurges. Gorlam Prime is likely still in chrysalis.

I'd love a "Cybertron 2: Planet Micro" spin-off. "Hi, I'm Hardhead, protector of what used to be known as Gorlam Prime. That's the dead body of my pal Nightbeat, whilst this disembodied head is Jhiaxus. The pink thing over there that's been psychotically hacking away on Jhiaxus' body for the past thousand years is Arcee. Join us on another wacky pint-sized Transformers adventure. Yay. Watch out for the Solar Pool on your way in."

The first story can have Roadhandler and Stormcloud wrasslin' each other. But this time, Stormcloud's the good guy! Huzzah!

I'd buy that for a dollar.

Terome
2008-10-13, 07:56 PM
I am fully prepared for the new Cybertron to turn out to be The Movie Cybertron, or Those Japanese Shows Cybertron or Beast Machines Cybertron or some such thing. That would be fun for a little while. Probably not as fun as the rasslin', but we live in a flawed world.

inflatable dalek
2008-10-13, 08:10 PM
They should have used this cast iron opportunity to introduce Gobotron. Then the next title could have been about Cy-Kill traveling throughout the history or the multiverse only to be horribly killed by Megatron in a ironic jokey way everywhere he goes (like the chap from Life the Universe and Everything).

Terome
2008-10-13, 08:27 PM
It would also pave the way for Spotlight: Tux, which I think is something that has to happen fairly soon.

zigzagger
2008-10-14, 02:37 AM
Solar Pool?

Pardon? What?

Eh?

I had considered that the solar pool was, some how, Galvatron's handy work, but quickly ruled that one out - mainly because it doesn't make much sense. Why would Galvatron go to all the trouble to mysteriously generate a solar pool, whatever that is, when he could've just as easily killed Optimus with his death touch (or try to), and then take the "Darkness" all for himself (seeing as he had no issues with taking Bricktop Prime out).

That doesn't answer your question though, does it?

I'm sorry :(

inflatable dalek
2008-10-14, 06:25 AM
And speaking of unanswerable questions, was there any rhyme or reason as to why Galvatron and Nova had death grips when none of the other DU cast did (or at least if they did, never bothered to use them in situations when they'd come in handy. Max's crew would have lasted three seconds)? Is it a demarcation thing?

Not necessarily a criticism depending on how you look at it, but I did find it a bit odd that despite the big epic life and death struggle this was supposed to be not one of the good guys died [permanently, Hardhead doesn't count] in the issue? [Unless the Combaticons were killed off panel that is]. In fact, if we allow for the ambiguity about the rest of Banzaitron's team at his headquarters did any named characters die in all four issues bar Nightbeat, Drench and Manta Ray? With only the former actually feeling like a substantial loss.

Denyer
2008-10-14, 06:54 AM
Solar Pool?

Pardon? What?

Eh?
The base's power source?

inflatable dalek
2008-10-14, 07:08 AM
The base's power source?


In the middle of a corridor? Completely unprotected? In exactly the right spot for any passing escaping prisoner to either destroy the electricity supply or even throw a few pursing guards in?

Terome
2008-10-14, 07:25 AM
Not necessarily a criticism depending on how you look at it, but I did find it a bit odd that despite the big epic life and death struggle this was supposed to be not one of the good guys died [permanently, Hardhead doesn't count] in the issue?

Does Hound's arm count? It seemed to be a big deal at the time.

Halfshell
2008-10-14, 07:50 AM
did any named characters die in all four issues bar Nightbeat, Drench and Manta Ray? With only the former actually feeling like a substantial loss.

Dealer.

A couple of Micromasters.

Red Dave Prime
2008-10-14, 08:50 AM
my bets for future developments:

Spotlight blur will feature a solar pool in the background. It wont be explained but at various points in the comic robots will be hurled in, sometimes by other bots, sometimes just by off-screen forces.

Grimlock will hurl Scorponok into a mysterious solar pool at the end of maximum dinobots. Sunstreaker may also regain his head and hurl Onion boy into said pool as well so as to hide his shame. Sideswipe wont care. Hot Rod will ask the magnificence if the autobots will ever use it again. It says Neh.

AHM will end when Megatron is hurled into a mysterious solar pool by Shockwave. The Decepticons become Movie Stars proper and Spotlight:Skullgrin will be announced.

The new six-parter is announced as Shockwavetion, written by furman and detailing a day in the life of everyones favourite one-eyed decepticon. IDW will cut things short however and it will end up only featuring his early-morning coffee routine. Part six will feature the lunch trolloy on the last page with the words to be continued.

Finally spotlight: Solar Pool will end IDWs trans former series. Answering all the questions we have about the solar pool it will be the most succesfull tf comic ever. Nick Roche will do covers.

Commander Shockwav
2008-10-14, 01:29 PM
My multi step guide to how I'd have made this series better (that's better, not necessaries good. That might have been to much of a challenge considering the constraints). This means loosing some nice indervidual bits, but I think increasing the overall strength of the comic:

The big one first, loose everything about Dealer and Sideswipe (though keep the latter as a grunt in the battle). Then use the extra space for the following:

Instead of the Magnificence have Jetfire and the others work out the DU plan through a chain of logical deduction (not really that hard with some careful writing).

Lose the Arcee Banzaitron team up, she gets to the Decepticon base and finds them all dead but then follows the trail using her tracking skills. Show her finding Mosntructor on the planet and calling into Fort Max so he knows where she is (and where one of the Nega Cores is. Factor in Ultra Magnus could make the Bhul connection himself and you don't need the Magnificence at all for that) before taking him on single handed in a battle of the freaks.

Drop the Pretenders. When the Nega Cores are collected have Ultra Magnus go with Arcee to Gorlam and be ready to make the ultimate sacrifice himself by going into the pool with them... Only for the now undead Hardhead to pop out and insist on doing it himself (a shameless rehash of Impactors death, but far better than a shameless rehash of "Look at this never seen before hole in the floor". Plus deals with Hardhead's fate).

Use the extra space freed up by the above for the following-

A better sense of people travelling from place to place, most specifically establish Galvatron arriving at Garrus and blasting his way in (making it look like he's come to help his boss).

Better and more elaborate fight scene between the two Prime's, not forgetting the fact Nemesis is supposed to be a semi sympathetic character who just wants to go home. Rather than "The Darkness" he just has the Matrix. It isn't evil or tainted but once it actually has the option to leave the guy who has renounced his role and go to another more suitable candidate it does, which is what starts to give Optimus the edge in the battle (and have this be Prime's plan all along so he doesn't seem to be winging it so badly). [Alternately, if you want to keep the Eviltrix make sure a cliffhanger is prime being taken over by the evil Twin Peaks style].

Galvatron arrives and finishes off Nemesis, and demands the Matrix for himself lest he use his death grip on Prime. But now joined with the Matrix for the first time ever Optimus makes short work of him [not perfect, but using a already established McGuffin rather than having a brand new one just show up out of no where is a better alternative].

Throw into the mix: Giving Sixshot something to do (fighting another team of Autobots in a more on screen battle), have Ultra Magnus zap Arcee and take her back to prison, drop Grindcore and have Cyclonus on Earth instead (as he no longer has any Pretenders to fight).


Nice.

You're right. That would have been much better. :up:

Commander Shockwav
2008-10-14, 01:35 PM
Watch out for the Solar Pool on your way in."


:lol:

One thing Revelations has given us, for sure.

And that's plentiful material for jokes revolving around convenient plot devices for years to come.

"Shockwave did it" has company now.

When faced with a problem, you know what to do. Throw it in that them thar solar pool! :swirly:

zigzagger
2008-10-14, 01:46 PM
Ah, here we go. My earlier question possibly answered. Maybe.

http://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Revelations-Simon-Furman/dp/1600104215/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223924451&sr=1-3

Halfshell
2008-10-14, 01:50 PM
Ah, here we go. My earlier question possibly answered. Maybe.

http://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Revelations-Simon-Furman/dp/1600104215/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223924451&sr=1-3

Wouldn't put too much stock in that, seeing as they've pluralised it. ;)

wolfbolt86
2008-10-14, 03:12 PM
I liked it, but it was a very fast read. Dealing with the pretenders for a moment. Doesn't it seem that the only one in IDW's story with seeable organic tissue is bludgeon? The other five seem to be just exo-suites. I did like the story very much.

inflatable dalek
2008-10-15, 07:24 AM
When faced with a problem, you know what to do. Throw it in that them thar solar pool! :swirly:

It wouldn't be so bad (just mostly bad) if the name wasn't so bloody stupid. Energon Pool, Nucleon Pool, Smelting Pool... Anything a bit more made up would make it easier to suspend the old disbelief. But even the most tech unsavey of people have a decent grasp of the fact that most machines with "solar" in the name aren't capable of frying undead giant robots when you chuck them together.

zigzagger
2008-10-15, 07:51 AM
Maybe it's a tanning bed.

Halfshell
2008-10-15, 07:55 AM
Mmm. If it had been "the nuclear reactor" or "the furnace" or "the space bridge portal that I used to get here undetected" it would have been fine.

But instead we get a Magical McGuffin Plot Device that none of us have heard of before.

Hell, maybe the original plan had a page in an earlier issue 2 explaining that Garrus 9 is indeed run on a procession of open-top self-sustaining nuclear reactors that resemble mini suns (Galvy did say "that" solar pool, which infers there may have been others about), but as it stands, it's completely and utterly out of nowhere.

Commander Shockwav
2008-10-15, 02:31 PM
Mmm. If it had been "the nuclear reactor" or "the furnace" or "the space bridge portal that I used to get here undetected" it would have been fine.

But instead we get a Magical McGuffin Plot Device that none of us have heard of before.


And we're all better off for it. :)

Starfield
2008-10-15, 05:17 PM
I assumed Prime would end the issue in his All-Hail-Megatron coma. I'm not reading AHM, but I heard Prime was out of commission at the beginning. Now Prime has to get into another big fight and lose?

Clogs
2008-10-16, 01:33 PM
Got hold of a copy at last and it's OK.

Liked the revelations about Sideswipe's relationship with Sunny.

Sure, there's few TV cartoon faults in the action (viz. villain gets the drop on hero, but is distracted by his triumphant plans turning rapidly into disasters), but it wasn't bad at all. I rather liked the art and the pacing was just fine, for I do not believe a whole comic dedicated to watching Siders trash stuff would be worth more than a yawn.

There was the tendency to do the typical 'in one might bound...' towards the very end of the story. Look, if it needs to overrun into 5 issues, find the ink and paper, m'kay?

zigzagger
2008-10-18, 04:11 AM
Alright, just to make sure I'm on the right page, this is the solar pool (above Prime)?
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1232/solarpoolcv2.th.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=solarpoolcv2.jpg)

EDIT: If so, then after checking Spotlight Doubledealer, it's there also...I think. It's a furnace then? (I'll get an image up here in a second)

RE-EDIT: Looks like it might be it. In front of Prime - it's the furnace looking machine with the solar panel devices hanging above it. That, or it's simply a random piece of machinery.
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/552/solarpool2wj5.th.jpg (http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=solarpool2wj5.jpg)

Halfshell
2008-10-18, 09:17 AM
Yeah, but what is it?

zigzagger
2008-10-18, 10:15 AM
I...I still have no idea. :(

I'm going with the furnace-thingy option - it confounds me slightly less. Sadly though, the fact that I just noticed it after deliberately looking out for it, doesn't really help matters much, I'm afraid. I'd think a relevant, story-ending, plot device would make its' presence better known before hand, but I guess not (edit: well, knowing it appeared beforehand sort of helps, but they're still no "what's...".) I not even sure why I posted the images now...just wanted to share, I guess.

**kicks can and shuffles off**

Red Dave Prime
2008-10-18, 11:54 AM
Forget JFK, this conspiracy behind the mystery of the Solar Panel looks to be the real McCoy.

Who Built it?
Why was it put there?
Shouldnt there have been a sign similar to the wet floor safety signs around it?
Is it possible that Galvatron never stood behind Nemisis Prime in all their time in the dark universe and saw the chance to shoot him in the back?

People, we're through the looking glass here...

inflatable dalek
2008-10-18, 02:29 PM
Speaking of Galvatron, how was he going to stop the Darkness continuing to follow the line of succession and just going to the next Prime when Optimus died?


And I can exclusively reveal that within the Solar Pool lies the Bartender from the last episode of Quantum Leap.

Halfshell
2008-10-18, 07:52 PM
Speaking of Galvatron, how was he going to stop the Darkness continuing to follow the line of succession and just going to the next Prime when Optimus died?

By destroying the universe, probably.

Maybe being outside the Prime lineage would have helped? IE it would default to transferring to Galvatron's successor. And as he doesn't have one...

Starfield
2008-10-29, 06:53 PM
I totally mis-read Galvatron's death scene. I was anticipating some use of Galvatron's death-by-touch superpower he used against Leadfoot and the Reapers. So when Prime touched Galvatron, I was expecting someone to die. When it wasn't Prime I interpreted it as Prime somehow turned the power back on Galvatron, with the Darkness or something. I didn't know exactly how. Then Galvatron died by his own superpower.

I was expecting that so much, I didn't even notice that Galvatron got thrown into a furnace I didn't even know was right there.

Good comic otherwise.

wyze2099
2008-10-31, 04:46 PM
Y'know, all one would have to do to kill Jhiaxus is to move his body parts out of that between-dimension. Moving him to the Living Universe would allow Arcee to kill him once and for all (and it's not as if he could defend himself or escape), and moving him to the Dead Universe would eliminate an extra step. Wouldn't be as satisfying, but c'mon, if Jhiaxus' immortality only works when he's in the between-verse, then there's a clear way around that.

Red Dave Prime
2008-10-31, 09:53 PM
Looking for logic in revalations is a pointless and depressing situation. Actually, scratch that, the whole IDW universe is filled with silly. I try not to look too much into it because I know it leads to thoughts like the one above.

wyze2099
2008-11-01, 04:01 AM
Well, true, but ... can't the same be said of the entire Transformers franchise? There's lots of silly to be had in every sector of it. But there's also plenty of awesome as well, and the IDWverse is no exception.

Red Dave Prime
2008-11-01, 08:26 AM
I wouldnt have bought every issue if I didnt agree with you on that. I just wish they'd look at things a little more closely before they decide to do something.

The bare bones of the revelations series was decent but knowing they only had 4 issues they should have (and could have) left a few things on the shelf. Bludgeon didnt need to re-appear (indeed that bit made no sense to me at all) the magnififcence should have just been a map of locations which would have allowed the autobots to find the other locations. They had found thunderstorm by a plauseable way and jetficould have found out most of what hot rod did by the mind link with Jhiaxus. But maybe furmans desire to tie up all his threads (or maybe even he was told he had to) led to an over cast and over worked plot is.

But in between the nagging , yeah, its mostly good stuff. Even Spotlight:Mirage gave me some entertainment.

inflatable dalek
2008-11-19, 09:40 AM
Rereading it for the review I realised one thing that pretty much passed me by amidst all the compression is the reason Galvatron wants the Darkness. So what do we think the super secret origin he learnt was? Considering his seeming survival at the end (not much of a fuel reactor is it?) and the likely content of The 13 I suspect he'll turn out to be connected to Unicron. Or, at a extreme pinch, he's really a future/alternate Universe Megatron after all. Either (or both if we're going down the "There's one Unicron across the Multiverse" thing) would be rather disappointing after the promised new direction for the character.

And another thought- I never did like the slightly contrived way the Autobots abandoned Earth at the end of Devastation, it felt forced and trying to hard to be surprising. And now its turned out to be completely pointless hasn't it? Barely any of the characters from Prime's team showed up in the title, and, other than Prowl, those who did (Hot Rod and Nightbeat) would have done pretty much the same things even if the ship had stayed on Earth whilst Optimus just took a shuttle with Prowl on it to the prison.

Red Dave Prime
2008-11-19, 03:29 PM
For all that we can excuse them for having rushed the ending a re-read of the 4 parts of revelations are really shit. It feels so rushed and small scalled that I reckon it could have been covered with less (un-needed) complications in one 6 issue series rather then over the course of all those spotlights and so much of the regular (and growing more pointless by the minute) arcs.

Its all well and good having a grand plan for an epic event but this didnt work. The issues read all right on their own I suppose with Cyclonus getting the best of it. But as a grand plan it falls very flat. I have no problem if furman and IDW had hinted at the expansion arc early on but by spotlight prime and indeed escalation we are already in full swing on the plot and its the main story.

Question here folks: Where do you see TF going into 2009/10? should IDW stop its current direction after maximum dinobots and all hail megatron have shut up shop and try something vastly different for long term fans or try a proper "ultimates" series and put slightly different slants on characters and plots from earlier times? Should the stories be more adult ( I dont mean gory or violent, I mean in terms of how the world is written adn the character developments) or should it continue in the paddling-pool depth it currently has so that at least the plots can be the focus of things.

Cliffjumper
2008-11-19, 03:58 PM
I dunno, I feel AHM is already an attempt to Ultimize the TFs (Let's put to one side whether it's any good or not), with only a little lip-service to the rest of the continuity (mainly so it doesn't have to do a dull 'arrival on Earth' arc), complete with uncomplicated characters for people who haven't seen anything since 1985 will be happy with, plus what probably passes for dynamic adult scripting in Sean McCarthy's mind (OMFG THEY KILL HUMNS AN THE DECEP ARE WINING! OMFG ASSPLODE!!!!).

I'm guessing at some stage this was genuinely going to be a sequel to Furman's work done with communications between the writers and everything, and then something changed (probably the way the Dead Furmanverse started creaking like a whore that's been working the docks for three decades) and McCarthy became the golden boy, but publication was too close to genuinely break away from Furman's stuff. Either that or IDW royally ****ed up once more...

Starfield
2008-11-19, 04:12 PM
Question here folks: Where do you see TF going into 2009/10? should IDW stop its current direction after maximum dinobots and all hail megatron have shut up shop and try something vastly different for long term fans or try a proper "ultimates" series and put slightly different slants on characters and plots from earlier times?The basic setup of infiltration was a pretty good new interesting take on "Autobots wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons." It took out a lot of mystical, fantastic, epic forces. It really did look like a real war between the two might look. What they needed was to set that up fast (half the first issue), then have individual issues be a more-or-less contained story within that setup. I guess you would call that an "ongoing." That fell apart somehow and quickly fell into the mystical (dead universe), fantastic (reapers), and epic (expansion). Maybe having "series" drives stories to be epic.

What I'd like is to see infiltration done right, but that setup is probably unusable for a while.

But Stormbringer went epic, and I liked that, so perhaps I'm not the best judge.

Denyer
2008-11-19, 06:15 PM
Where do you see TF going into 2009/10?
If it weren't for the fact Hasbro are apparently happy with sales trends, cancellation of non-movie books.

Dunno. There's currently nothing on the table I'm interested in except the wrap-up story in Maximum Dinobots and a few likely Spotlights.

And the continuity of the previous two years or so has been reduced to trying to salvage things rather than looking forward -- it's hard to actually be optimistic.

Red Dave Prime
2008-11-19, 06:17 PM
Completely agree with both your comments there starfield.

Not sure if I'd see AHM as an "ultimate" in that it doesnt start anything off but it is much closer then infiltration was in terms of cartoon appeal. In a nutshell, IDW need to up the quality of the writing if they are to get non-tf fans to buy their book. The stories have to be compelling and appealling in of themselves and not just because you stick the TF logo on top.

Cliffjumper
2008-11-19, 06:32 PM
I dunno, I think McCarthy's aim is to do an Ultimates, he just isn't that interested in a set-up story (if he was any good, I'd find this forgivable). We've just been dropped into the second arc in a way, and Transformers is a title that can be better off without super origins and arrivals - everyone knows the basics like the back of their hands (Decepticons try to conquer Earth, Autobots stop them), another retelling isn't necessary (besides, with McCarthy it'd be a more violent version of More Than Meets the Eye anyway). It's a new continuity bar a few footnotes, as McCarthy is doing what he likes with the backstory and the characters - if someone can whip up a convoluted explanation for Kup being alright, it's a bonus.

Considering AHM seems to be the steadiest seller IDW have had from TF for a while, I doubt we'll see much of a change. I'm not sure what could be done to bring in casual readers anyway - comics are a shrinking market, and if it goes superb and gets top notices, chances are it'll alienate the morons lapping up the Sunbowfest McCarthy's crapping out, meaning no gain in sales.

Red Dave Prime
2008-11-19, 08:54 PM
chances are it'll alienate the morons lapping up the Sunbowfest McCarthy's crapping out

You have a lovely way with words :)

Agree with your post though, just feel that the origin story could have been to reset the characters a bit better. It didnt need to be exactly the same as the original cartoon or comic (in the same way Ultimate spiderman took key events and villians but put its own spin on things)

I for one like the AHM series but more as a diversion. I knock furman a good bit here but I think he was heading in a more interesting direction. Just needed a good (strong?) editor to keep him on track.

Cliffjumper
2008-11-19, 09:37 PM
Pre-Devastation, I'd have agreed... however, I think things were wobbling off the rails a long time ago, to be honest, not just when IDW started mucking things around.


I think I'm being unclear on the Ultimate/AHM thing... I think AHM is the closest we're going to get for a while, even if it's not a neat fit. A well-promoted Ultimate Transformers fresh continuity thing being pitched at around the same time as AHM might have got some serious attention and sales. However, I think now AHM's out, the gain just isn't there as it wouldn't be such a contrast to the main material as it would have been to Furman's.

Erm... clarification on that... Furmanverse compared to Ultimate Transformers is two totally different kettles of fish, so potential big gain... AHM compared to Ultimate Transformers wouldn't be much of a difference beyond, as you say, another new starting arc (especially as Sean seems to be IDW's boy at the moment and would likely be the writer). By doing the half in-continuity half fresh-start AHM, IDW have managed to minimise the gain in readers while alienating a lot of Furman's readers.

A smarter idea would have been to do the Big Sales Push Ultimate Transformers book genuinely alongside the Furman material, thus keeping established readers more interested - they're more likely to pick up two books out of loyalty (heck, people bought Generations, after all...).

Instead we get a series widely promoted by this convoluted idea of being set a year ahead of the still-running Furmanverse material (making that strangely redundant at the same time), but is actually effectively a reboot. Someone at IDW drew a salary for making a decision like that...

Red Dave Prime
2008-11-20, 12:45 AM
I like to think that Jetfires last few panels were furmans way of getting back at this... "We see of the Machination Empire, we stop megatron (ta-da!!) AND THEN we fight the returning shockwave...." Yep, anytime jetfires in trouble between now and Galvatron reappearing wont have quite the same amount of tension in it... unless they really do just ignore the furman stuff.

inflatable dalek
2008-11-20, 09:30 AM
I like to think that Jetfires last few panels were furmans way of getting back at this... "We see of the Machination Empire, we stop megatron (ta-da!!) AND THEN we fight the returning shockwave...."

There's nothing actually to say that the Megatron stuff referred to there is AHM. It's probable, but it could equally refer to something in X-TREME HARDCORE DINOBOTS BITCH.