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Cliffjumper
2010-06-17, 12:04 PM
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/TomPrankerd/th_FULL_FORCE.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/TomPrankerd/?action=view&current=FULL_FORCE.jpg)

First lot of GI Joe impulse buys turned up today - except the AWE-Striker is Action Force. Woo! Bit of a lucky fluke, as the Action Force comic is likely to determine recruitment. Also got Barbecue (who's backpack just will not stay on) and Mainframe. Zartan's a bit outnumbered until the random bunch of recent-ish two-packs I also bought turn up.

Halfshell
2010-06-17, 12:31 PM
Surely Zartan can just pretend to be one of the Joes in the interim?

Wildrider
2010-06-17, 02:47 PM
The're awesomely addictive aren't they? I went through major six months of impulse buying of joes, lots of hits and misses on eBay, several figures turning up sans their elasticated groins. But great fun.

Got some classics, like the sniper in the wooly beany, Longshot? (Probably an X-Man memory) and also picked up an Awe Striker and some kind of beige desert half track, which appeared to have a kitchen in the back.

Some of my favourite characters like Beachead and Tunnel Rat just had cool figures, I also had a future guy Sci-Fi or somethign he was alser sniper, his outfit was pure Robocop, always wanted the Hovercraft and the Oil Rig defence platform (TAKE THAT BRITISH PETROLEUM!).

I also had a really cool guy in fatigues a jungle hat and a shotgun, it wasn't Recondo in his battle kayak, one of the later ones.

Ah memories, I still have the German chemical weapons guy Airtight? His weapon was crap. But his outfit was cool and I used to look out for him in the comics.

Ah nostalgia has flooded my sinuses, GO JOE! I still have some of the newer edition two packs, with Snake Eyes and Stormshadow etc, the heads seem a bit small and the legs too long, but hey a Beach Head isa Beach Head

"LIIIIIIIIIIIUUUEETENAAANT FALCON FRONT AND CENTRE!"

Cliffjumper
2010-06-17, 02:58 PM
Yeh, the two-pack ones do look a bit weird, but I won ten of the packs in a job lot, so that'll do as a starter, I can 'upgrade' to better figures at a later point (plus IIRC they all have multiple weapons. The Action Force comic guys like Shipwreck, Bazooka, Airtight, Quick-Kick and Lady Jaye are high up on the list too... It's quite cheap at about a fiver for a complete figure. Always wanted the Joe artic buggy thing (Snowcat, I think) for some reason too.

Only thing is I think Cobra are going to be massively outnumbered because half of their figures are dreadful, and army building will probably be expensive and tedious (I like the Crimson Guard, but spaffing a few quid a time on figures I'd already own... eh), as job lots of the same figure don't seem to come up too much.

Only real disappointment is they still don't seem to have done a decent Baroness - the old one looks too much like a drag artist, while the 2-pack one was anorexic. Might go for the new film one as a cheap place-holder.

inflatable dalek
2010-06-17, 05:02 PM
Only real disappointment is they still don't seem to have done a decent Baroness - the old one looks too much like a drag artist, while the 2-pack one was anorexic. Might go for the new film one as a cheap place-holder.

Miller would certainly be my cheap place holder.

Heinrad
2010-06-21, 04:51 PM
If they aren't horribly expensive, BATs might make for good army building figures. At least, the ones that came out in the 80s, or the 80s-ish ones they put out a couple of years ago. The BAT IIs that came out about the time Snake Eyes and the Day-Glo ninjas showed up aren't terrible, but you'll want to paint all of their accessory packs so they aren't whatever day-glo color Hasbro thought would get the kids buying them.

Sad to say, I think the BATs were the best thing to come out of G.I. Joe. Of course, that could just be me.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-22, 06:23 PM
I got my Rattler! ****ing excellent toy. Huge, compatible with hardly any figures, made out of the cheapest plastic imaginable (there's already a stress mark on one of the rear wheels), great stuff.

Sades
2010-06-22, 06:43 PM
So you're probably going to hate it in about six months?

inflatable dalek
2010-06-22, 06:52 PM
Though I generally had no interest in Action Force/GI Joe The Action Force (that give-away comic was a bit odd wasn't it? "Lets team up Duke!" "OK Flint. Weren't we working for the same group before anyway though?" "Don't be silly") that tiger painted airplane advertised on the back of the TF comic was one that strangely fascinated me as a kid.

Halfshell
2010-06-22, 07:37 PM
I had (I think) all of Tiger Force, plus the vehicles.

All your (third) favourite Joes! But with awesome tiger style uniforms!

How is that not uberkewl?

inflatable dalek
2010-06-22, 07:39 PM
Wild Bill was one of them wasn't he?

I don't think we had any Action Force toys as a kid. Never went into soldier stuff at all really.

Pissin' Poonani
2010-06-22, 07:40 PM
Used to love Action Force as a kid. My personal favourites toy-wise were Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, my Crimson Guardsman and Zartan. My favourite vehicle was this really cool blue Cobra quad-bike, but a friend of mine had the AF F-15. That thing was ****ing huge.

Me and my brother still have a few bits left in the loft, but most are broken or incomplete (or horrendously yellowed, like the Snow Cat). Storm Shadow got mauled by one of our dogs which left him with the skin texture of Deadpool, which in retrospect is actually pretty cool.

Sades
2010-06-22, 07:59 PM
We had a few Joes, but I don't remember specifics. My memories of being a kid is choppy at best at this point. I remember a few of the vehicles, but only after we'd had them for years and they were pretty well played with, ie. missing cockpit covers and whatnot.

The toys I remember best right now are the Bucky O'Hare toys. Don't ask me why I started recalling Bucky O'Hare when trying to recall GI Joe.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-22, 08:14 PM
So you're probably going to hate it in about six months?

Oh yes - I can see why the chap I bought it off had kept it MISB. I'm not even 100% sure the undercarriage will actually support the thing with two figures in it.

This is the precise one I own - http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/08/rattler/ - seems to be the original with minor retouches. I genuinely love the thing, albeit for largely nostalgic reasons (had a battered one as a kid... with no landing gear). I don't remember the turret being set up so the gunner can only face forward, but that's probably me. I do remember thinking the tail could be detached and used as a glider, but apparently it's not meant to be.

Together with the two-packs I've a nice little army building, and am planning to go Action Force-mental on the 28th when I get paid.

Fun fact: In the UK comics, Wild Bill came from Hull.

Halfshell
2010-06-22, 08:21 PM
Wild Bill was one of them wasn't he?

Apparently not (thanks to some doublechecking on yojoe.com). They redecoed his helicopter, but with a different pilot. They redid the Snowcat too. Plus Flint, Duke, Roadblock... awh, there were ones I didn't have. :-/

Once upon a time that news would have made me go out and buy them all. Now... ah well. :) At least I had some.

I was asked what I wanted for Christmas by my uncle one year whilst living abroad. I furnished the family with a list of Tiger Forcey Joe stuff that they could pick from, as I didn't have any of it. Then a big box turned up at Christmas with the entire content of the list in it. That makes up for it all.

I remember there were three or four of us on the same street who just used to amalgamate our collections to maximise the awesome. I had Tiger Force, somebody else had some chunky green APC that may have been Rolling Thunder, and another lad had the huge tall light brown headquarters unit.

It was awesome. :)

inflatable dalek
2010-06-22, 08:21 PM
Fun fact: In the UK comics, Wild Bill came from Hull.

Now I didn't know that, I thought it was just a case of them having a couple of UK based Joes in Flint and Lady Jay and just bringing in guys over from the American series "On assignment" as needed. So did they really edit any mentions of Wild Bill being American in the reprints?

Looking into it vaguely recently, I didn't realise how all over the place the American content in the Action Force comic was, I'm guessing the random order was down to the way the toys were released over here? Pretty much makes it impossible to view a single giant UK/US Joe/Force continuity, unlike the UK TF stuff.

EDIT:

The Snowcat in tiger colours? Awesome.

Halfshell
2010-06-22, 08:25 PM
Tigercat FTW.

http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/88/tigercat/

inflatable dalek
2010-06-22, 08:27 PM
That's one versatile bit of kit. Shame they didn't think to rename the driver as well. Tigerbite actually sounds pretty cool.

Halfshell
2010-06-22, 08:30 PM
It was only the vehicles that got renamed. Because everbody else was the exact same character, but, like, drafted into this awesome new Tiger-themed unit.

Don't question it. I didn't.

inflatable dalek
2010-06-22, 08:33 PM
They could have given them awesome new tiger themed code names as well. Even if I can't come up with anything better than replacing the first word with "Tiger" that's still the same level of imagination considered good enough for the vehicles.

Halfshell
2010-06-22, 08:35 PM
Aaah. Tiger Force Psyche-Out was a European exclusive, and there's a separate section for that. So glad I've found him on the site now - thought I was going insane.

Sades
2010-06-22, 08:39 PM
We never got planes, for some reason. Planes would have been so awesome.

Oh, I think I might have lied... thought technically speaking the Tomahawk isn't a plane.

http://www.yojoe.com/action/88/frostbite2.shtml

I remember having that guy kicking around. I'm pretty sure we had three or four different versions of that guy, in fact. Or it could just be that multiples were bought to keep us kids from fighting.

[edit] Snowcat, yes. The other(s)? I don't remember that version of vehicle so they probably came in boxes of garage-sale toys we picked up, minus vehicles. Or I just forgot.

Air Chariot. :up:

['nother edit] Was totally thinking of something else. Dagnabit.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-22, 09:50 PM
It's weird now much bits of the line have imprinted on me considering (or maybe because) I didn't have much of it. I really want one of those little one-man Cobra helicopters just because I really, really remember the little ball-turret on the front. I also really remember how pasty most of the original figures were - the strangest thing about the new stuff is that they're generally a fairly normal colour.

UK releases, if I'm remembering what I read the other day correctly, were roughly a year behind, as opposed to basically the same as with Transformers, plus a lot of the early stuff was skipped by Palitoy in favour of their own originated stuff (and lots of early Joes were completely recoloured to be SAS figures and the like). There was also a lot less released over here, with a lot of the overtly American stuff skipped - this is why the UK original material exists, so that pages and pages weren't spent advertising figures that weren't in UK shops.

Most characters were reassigned to various nationalities (Flint, Crankcase and Wild Bill were British, Barbecue was Italian, Airtight was German, Beach Head was from New Zealand and so on). Duke, Scarlett, Snake-Eyes and others were still American, but as part of the American branch of Action Force (which is why the 'joining forces' bit doesn't make sense - the US reprints had always purported to just show the further advenures of the US branch of Action Force, not GI Joe). IIRC Destro was Scottish in the US material anyway.

Weird as it sounds, I kinda prefer the idea of International Heroes to the occasional nationalistic bent of Hama's comics - there's at least one scene where civilians are demonstrated to be bad people because they own German cars rather than the multicoloured tanks crapped out by American manufacturers.

Sades
2010-06-22, 10:07 PM
You know what I found strange? The website said that the Canadian toys had the American flag swapped out for the Canadian one, but all I can remember (what I can remember, anyway) on our toys was American flags. Highly possible that a lot of them had swapped out insignia, as I know there's a host of figures we had that I haven't looked for yet (I can't spend all day looking at Joe figures) but from what I can recall, it was American. I guess it's time for a sibling poll.

inflatable dalek
2010-06-22, 10:09 PM
Interestingly enough the film is much more of an Action Force movie in a lot of ways, even down to the nationality reassignments (in relation to the original RAH stuff of course). Though considering no one seemed to notice this effort they might as well have not bothered.

I didn't know Flint wasn't British in the American version as well, I guess because the 80's film (my main reference point for what these characters sound like) either doesn't have a speaking part for him or it's not very memorable. I always thought that little badge on his cap was some sort of regimental thing.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-22, 10:47 PM
He actually got to be a bit important in the old film, just not in a very time-consuming way (he's in charge of the squad that finds Roadblock, and technically leads the assault on Cobra-La after contacting Hot Rod Falcon, Arcee Jinx, Blurr Big Lob & co.). He does have a fairly neutral accent, though.

Fun fact: lots of armies have regiments. Flint was ex-special forces both sides of the Atlantic, though obviously the British version was ex-SAS and thus among the hardest men to ever walk the Earth, the American version less so. I'm seriously tempted to round up all the Palitoy SAS stuff (http://www.bloodforthebaron.com/toys/002/index.html) (Blood for the Baron, while completely biased towards the Fleetway/Palitoy axis rather than Marvel/Hasbro, is the flat-out best site to read for this stuff), because they're the ****ing SAS. Who cares if they don't have elbows or knees?

S_Windell
2010-06-23, 08:42 AM
Got some classics, like the sniper in the wooly beany, Longshot?

I also had a really cool guy in fatigues a jungle hat and a shotgun, it wasn't Recondo in his battle kayak, one of the later ones.

Ah memories, I still have the German chemical weapons guy Airtight? His weapon was crap. But his outfit was cool and I used to look out for him in the comics.

The sniper/wool cap guy is Lowlight. One of my favorite figures from the line! And a potentially cool but underused character. Longshot would've been a nice name for him though. In fact, it took me a few seconds before I go, "wait, no...he wasn't called that..." ;)

The guy with the jungle gear and shotgun. Did he come with some type of dog? I think I know exactly who you mean. But surely you'd remember and mention the dog if it's him...

Airtight was really cool looking, yeah. But he didn't really have a weapon, per se, it was chem neutralization gear, which in the least made sense.

I didn't know Flint wasn't British in the American version as well, I guess because the 80's film (my main reference point for what these characters sound like) either doesn't have a speaking part for him or it's not very memorable. I always thought that little badge on his cap was some sort of regimental thing.

He has a grand total of ONE line in the movie. Incidentally, most of the emblems on those figures are loosely based on real life American military ones. The one on Flint's beret is most likely based on the Army's 86th division...

http://www.atthefront.com/us/insignia/images/divisionalpatches/us_insig_86ID.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.org/portal/forum/image.php?u=4490&dateline=1192040536

Cliffjumper
2010-06-23, 09:16 AM
Flint has more than one line in the animated movie - it's him who suggests taking a team of Joes to look for the team of Joes who got lost because they're short on numbers (go figure), and he calls Falcon to explain the effect of the spores. Not sure if he gets some more generic stuff in there, though.

It's probably to his credit that he's not in it much, though - it's a terrible, terrible movie. God knows what out-and-out fans of the cartoon made of their favourites being basically made to look shit (TF:TM has nothing on it for humiliating existing characters, be it Snake-Eyes getting clobbered by one of those dolphin-nosed guards, most of the big name Cobras being glorified extras, the moronic Cobra-La...).

inflatable dalek
2010-06-23, 10:29 AM
I don't know, I only really perk up during the Cobra-La stuff, mainly because the design work and thought put into creating a techno-organic culture is really impressive. I especially love the little crab carpet. What happens to Cobra Commander is frankly still terrifying as well.

The Joe stuff on the other hand, apart from them having an internationally famous wrestler working for their top secret organisation under his own stage name, is just a bit dull. And even in the 80's Falcon would probably be done for sexual harassment of Jinx. And would Hawk really be allowed to have his own brother under his command? We're not allowed family on the same department at work and we're only a supermarket.

Never knew American units had those little coat of arms style badges as well. And now I know ect.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-23, 11:54 AM
Not sure how it's sexual harrassment seeing as they're obviously in some form of relationship before his security ****-up - they've dated recently (as she tells Zaranna), she's just trying to get on with her work. He was Duke's brother (or was it half-brother?) in the film (in the comic he's just some guy, IIRC, though he's in it less than Chuckles), and it seemed to be news to Hawk at least.

GI Joe's an ad-hoc unit featuring basketball players, MPOs, ninjas, a guy wearing a Cobra uniform with graffiti on it, a lump in a Hawaiian shirt (one of at least two dumb Joes), a couple of pacifists, at least two dogs and so on. Seeing as they couldn't hope to function as any sort of integrated conventional military unit it follows that they aren't bound to typical regulations. Plus it makes sense - they're meant to be the cream of all the various branches, why let something like that get in the way of a promising recruit?

IIRC the only reason it doesn't really happen in the army now is to avoid Saving Private Ryan-style scenarios, as much for PR as anything else. Family being kept seperate in the workplace is largely for the security of the employer - if a manager's brother is the one with their hand in the till, they're less likely to ship them, and so on.

inflatable dalek
2010-06-23, 12:16 PM
He was Duke's brother (or was it half-brother?) in the film (in the comic he's just some guy, IIRC, though he's in it less than Chuckles), and it seemed to be news to Hawk at least.

Errr, well done, you spotted my deliberate mistake. Made on purpose because...err...

Visionaries. Now there was a proper toyline. Action Force didn't have holograms the losers.

IIRC the only reason it doesn't really happen in the army now is to avoid Saving Private Ryan-style scenarios, as much for PR as anything else. Family being kept seperate in the workplace is largely for the security of the employer - if a manager's brother is the one with their hand in the till, they're less likely to ship them, and so on.

I don't know, I think the film shows a pretty good argument for it. He lies to his superiors (or at least withholds) about having them being brothers, argues in favour of him in a way he probably wouldn't for Joe Bloggs in the same position and ultimately gets himself "Put in a coma" by taking a snake for him. Not a good day for Duke all in all (though I suppose you could argue he'd take the snake for anyone as he's just that kind of guy even if the higher ups would probably rather not have their top rank soliders doing that sort of thing due to being more valuable).

Cliffjumper
2010-06-23, 12:40 PM
What top ranks? In the cartoon, the only person who outranks Duke is Hawk (IIRC Flint is on the same level as Duke), who doesn't have a problem with it.
The cartoon version has an even loser military structure than the comic version. It's not like Duke completely screwed GI Joe with his actions - his pleas for clemency at the court martial lead to the Joes ending the film victorious and with a much-improved Lieutenant Falcon.

inflatable dalek
2010-06-23, 12:49 PM
[distracting from the increasing level of inaccuracy in my posts]Plasitc dinosaurs! Now they were awesome toys. Better than soldiers and cheaper yet basically the same as the official Jurassic Park stuff.[/Distracting from the increasing level of inaccuracy in my posts]

Interesting to see how many people did have lots of the toys here actually, I've tended to find Action Force has completely slipped through the cracks of people's memories even though the film and other tapes likely did well at a rental level. I've found it saves time when trying to encourage people to watch the new film just to say it's based on Action Man (roughly true, even if I don't think the version of Action Man most people my age think of when I say that had anything to do with it. But at least just about everyone's heard of it, I find trying to explain Action Force usually gets people backing away slowly).

Halfshell
2010-06-23, 03:03 PM
Following my research for my earlier post last night, I went rummaging about online for DVDs of the series.

I found the entire collection boxset on Amazon.com in chunky deluxe packaging and was tempted.

Really nice of them to put a clip of the series on the product page. Killed my enthusiasm stone dead. Yay. :)

inflatable dalek
2010-06-23, 03:11 PM
Damn, that is a really nice box though.

Halfshell
2010-06-23, 03:13 PM
I know!

If it were half the price and had some actual content in it, I'd be all over that.

Hound
2010-06-23, 03:25 PM
I wants it!

inflatable dalek
2010-06-23, 03:43 PM
Buy it, take the DVD's out, put something useful like a bicycle pump inside and sell it to Halfshell to make half your money back.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-23, 09:46 PM
Rise of Cobra is probably the shittest film I've seen for a long, long time. LOL comedy black guy! Black guy makes jokes and refuses to take situation seriously! LOL funny black man! LOL funny black man can't use his stupid suit properly because he's a funny silly black man! LOL funny black man thinks the dead guy's breakdancing because that's all funny black men understand! And the crazy Moroccan doesn't get similies! He's not as funny as the other one because he's not as black, but it's still pretty lawlsome.

Love Cakebastard's hilarious "Northerner doing a Rab C Nesbitt impression" as well. Just about pips Jonathan Price's Martin Sheen impression. Is it intentional that everyone's a c*nt? I'm meant to want GI Joe to lose this one, right? Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow aside, what the Hell is the difference between this and some shitty random action film made by talentless ****wits? Just so we're clear, the guy playing Hawk did spent all the filming having one long stroke, yeh?

When the **** is this film going to stop?

Also, I reckon Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow were childhood rivals. If only there were a few more scenes of kids fighting to make it clear.


HAHAHAHAHAH! Funny black man made a funny after saving the world! Love the way the girl who's probably meant to be hot can't just be bad, she's got to be mind-controlled or what-****ing-ever. This is a turd of a film.

inflatable dalek
2010-06-23, 10:38 PM
Rise of Cobra is probably the shittest film I've seen for a long, long time.

Either you've not watched any films whatsoever in a long time or I'll be... glowering at you. Yeah, take that glowering bitch.

LOL comedy black guy! Black guy makes jokes and refuses to take situation seriously! LOL funny black man!

LOL Comedy Black Guy LOL funny black man can't use his stupid suit properly because he's a funny silly black man![/quote]

Does he actually use the suit that much worse than Duke? Especially considering he's only let through the training because they need Duke and he''ll only join if Ripcord can as well? He's still standing at the end despite the fact he should be dead ten times over and he doesn't get captured like Duke does either.

LOL funny black man thinks the dead guy's breakdancing because that's all funny black men understand!

He makes a crap joke about the [deeply silly] sight in front of him. I can't see gags about break-dancing as just being a "Black Guy" thing now though, it's fairly mainstream these days isn't it?

And the crazy Moroccan doesn't get similies! He's not as funny as the other one because he's not as black, but it's still pretty lawlsome.

The serious pro faced soldier guy. A cliché yes, but not really anything to do with colour (BlokeFromLost is basically playing the same hard core old soldier guy that Jesse Ventura plays in [i]Predator after all).

Love Cakebastard's hilarious "Northerner doing a Rab C Nesbitt impression" as well. Just about pips Jonathan Price's Martin Sheen impression.

I don't mind Eccles in this, he's clearly hamming it up but in a fun way. I'm not sure Price actually sounds any different from an American when he's speaking normally these days anyway so the accent didn't bother me there either.

Is it intentional that everyone's a c*nt? I'm meant to want GI Joe to lose this one, right? Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow aside, what the Hell is the difference between this and some shitty random action film made by talentless ****wits?

Snake-Eyes himself isn't very much like the original RAH versions though is he? You've got a mute ninja who can't speak because of a hideous disfigurement who was like a brother to Storm Shadow Vs. a ninja who choses not to speak and never much liked the guy in white to start with [Assuming the "aside" bit means "aside from these two what makes it GI Joe"].

I really can't see how anyone could hate this film. It's very, very, very silly, but it's fun, passes the two hours without getting boring, the cast is pretty much spot on and is all round a better young kids film than Revenge of the Fallen is.

I don't understand any accusation of racism towards it either (as implied by the spoof "LOL Black man" stuff), Ripcord is the film's second lead, and despite having a lot of comedy stuff (though that's relative in a film that's not very serious anyway) saves the day and gets the [white] lead good female character (as opposed to Duke, who ends up with the lead villainess).

Plus, Waynas is pretty much playing himself, or at least his standard screen persona. I'm not sure how "Black actor plays his standard part" is worthy of mockery when Skids and Mudflap (white actors throw a bunch of Wigger clichés about) isn't.

EDIT: Though for the record I don't think either is racist, and find the twins funny as silly comic relief, mainly because that's what my cousins were a few years ago.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-23, 10:55 PM
His only really painful jokes are when he's drugged and when he's off duty and trying to get his end away on Scarlette.

No, for the first half of the film (6 hours?) there's very little that doesn't sound like it's from Scary Movie. And yeh, he saved the day (lucky he save the American missile till last, it'd be pretty difficult to care if the last missile was heading for all those foreign ****ers in Moscow, right? Russki doesn't like NASCAR, Russki can ****ing burn).

Does he actually use the suit that much worse than Duke? Probably not, but it's only for the black guy that it's played for laughs, LOL comedy black guy.

He makes a crap joke about the [deeply silly] sight in front of him. I can't see gags about break-dancing as just being a "Black Guy" thing now though, it's fairly mainstream these days isn't it? Probably not to the guys who made this film. So, there's this deeply silly sight in front of him, and the LOL black guy responds by making a jive-ass whack joke about breakdancing. Completely innocent in context.

The serious pro faced soldier guy. A cliché yes, but not really anything to do with colour (BlokeFromLost is basically playing the same hard core old soldier guy that Jesse Ventura plays in Predator after all).Yeh, they did seriously miss a trick by not giving the other black guy any stupid jokes, didn't they?

I don't mind Eccles in this, he's clearly hamming it up but in a fun way.

No he's not, he's exactly the same as he is in everything else, but occasionally he does a cod Scottish accent if there's nothing particularly complicated he ahs to do like walking and speaking.

Snake-Eyes himself isn't very much like the original RAH versions though is he? You've got a mute ninja who can't speak because of a hideous disfigurement who was like a brother to Storm Shadow Vs. a ninja who choses not to speak and never much liked the guy in white to start with [Assuming the "aside" bit means "aside from these two what makes it GI Joe"]. Snake-Eyes is changed in a way that makes some sort of sense (though quite why they bothered giving his suit a mouth I don't know... Plus he looks kinda stupid when everyone else is dressed in boring fatigues). Say, Scarlett was changed in such a way as to make it completely pointless (she's a really good shot! With her laser crossbow with its' built in tracking computer, because she can't just be a good shot). As was, basically, everyone else bar Storm Shadow.

I really can't see how anyone could hate this film. It's very, very, very silly, but it's fun, passes the two hours without getting boring, the cast is pretty much spot on and is all round a better young kids film than Revenge of the Fallen is. Possibly because it's stupid beyond words and no amount of irony can save it? Seriously, that's a Hell of a lot of money to waste on a film with next to no redeeming features. It gets boring very, very quickly once you realise it has nothing in the tank beyond "This film is really ****ing stupid". Also, fun fact: I'm not a young kid. A 12A certificate suggests this isn't aimed at sugar-driven spastics waiting for Ben 10 or Transformers Animated to come on.

I don't understand any accusation of racism towards it eitherPossibly because there wasn't one. I'm not saying it's racist at all, there are black people out there who are pricks on that quantum level. I'm just saying it was repetitive shit for the sort of people who go and see Epic Movie. It's his standard screen persona? Good for the ****, give him a bun. That makes watching it completely tolerable.

S_Windell
2010-06-24, 01:48 AM
Flint has more than one line in the animated movie - it's him who suggests taking a team of Joes to look for the team of Joes who got lost because they're short on numbers (go figure), and he calls Falcon to explain the effect of the spores. Not sure if he gets some more generic stuff in there, though.

Yes. I remember him and Iceberg being rounded up by Hawk to lead the rescue mission. That's where he gets the one line I remembered. "We're gonna need all the help we can get to whack back," or something like that. I had forgotten about his call to Falcon.

S_Windell
2010-06-24, 02:28 AM
And would Hawk really be allowed to have his own brother under his command? We're not allowed family on the same department at work and we're only a supermarket.

Siblings in the same military unit in the US has been outlawed since the early fifties. Aside from the possibility of nepotism, or just the accusation of it, there's the issue of putting a full generation of one family in the same dangerous situation.

The Sullivan brothers are often cited as inspiring this. (I couldn't find anything officiating this, but I've heard it since at least having to watch their movie in middle school, and the timeline makes it seem likely.) All five died during the same week in WWII while stationed on the same ship. The movie, of course, is sensationalized, making it appear as if they all died at the exact same time. As if the truth weren't bad enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fighting_Sullivans

IIRC the only reason it doesn't really happen in the army now is to avoid Saving Private Ryan-style scenarios, as much for PR as anything else.

For whatever reason, I've never seen Private Ryan. But the wiki entry for the Sullivan Bros. movie agrees...

"The story inspired, in part, the 1998 movie Saving Private Ryan."

Halfshell
2010-06-24, 07:51 AM
Rise of Cobra is a staggeringly abysmal film. Awful dialogue, trite plotting, panto acting, cliché twists and moralising, bad cgi and it's got a ****ing Wayans brother in it.

But, all that aside, I couldn't help but enjoy it. It was ****ing terrible and I felt dirty, but I was smiling as I walked out of the cinema.

I like to think that, on some level, it knew it was terrible so decided to embrace the fact and run with it. I like to think that.

[EDIT] Aha. Found my initial reaction thread:
http://www.tfarchive.com/community/showthread.php?t=47246
Bear in mind I didn't technically pay to see it, either, which often helps.

inflatable dalek
2010-06-24, 01:49 PM
No, for the first half of the film (6 hours?) there's very little that doesn't sound like it's from Scary Movie. And yeh, he saved the day (lucky he save the American missile till last, it'd be pretty difficult to care if the last missile was heading for all those foreign ****ers in Moscow, right? Russki doesn't like NASCAR, Russki can ****ing burn).

See, this is what I meant about how they might as well have not bothered trying to make the film as unjingoistic as possible. You've got an international team based outside of the US fighting a terrorist group led be a bitter ex-US soldier vying over a plot to take over the world where attacking America isn't the most important part of it and people still complain about things like them making the rescuing of Washington the films climax. Which seems fair enough to me for an American made film.

Plus, in terms of ecconomy of stroytelling, if he'd done the Russian missile last and crashed into the Kremlin it would have just made the ending go on longer as the Russians would no doubt be a bit pissed at a seemingly random attack by an American pilot.

Probably not, but it's only for the black guy that it's played for laughs, LOL comedy black guy.

I'll take that over Duke's pro faced dullness. He was by far the real weak link in the film for me, whilst it was understandable to have a "Normal" soldier as the lead who can ask all the exposition questions and center the films (God help me) "Emotional Core" how it's done does make him instantly forgettable.

Probably not to the guys who made this film. So, there's this deeply silly sight in front of him, and the LOL black guy responds by making a jive-ass whack joke about breakdancing. Completely innocent in context.

Alright then, considering there's pretty much certainly a joke needed there (mainly for younger viewers to distract them from what's basically a really gtimace inducing thing being done to the body) and Ripcord's the most likely of the characters there to make a quip at that (Breaker's the only other one with a sense of humour and he's busy) point what would you have had him say? And even if he'd done a completely different gag would you still be going LOL Comedy Black Guy at it?


No he's not, he's exactly the same as he is in everything else, but occasionally he does a cod Scottish accent if there's nothing particularly complicated he ahs to do like walking and speaking.

His schit worked fine for the role of an arrogant tosser though. I also liked how they pre-empted him not coming back for any sequels by making sure they could easily recast for the next one as well (indeed, I don't think that was him at all after the characters last line).


Possibly because it's stupid beyond words and no amount of irony can save it? Seriously, that's a Hell of a lot of money to waste on a film with next to no redeeming features. It gets boring very, very quickly once you realise it has nothing in the tank beyond "This film is really ****ing stupid". Also, fun fact: I'm not a young kid. A 12A certificate suggests this isn't aimed at sugar-driven spastics waiting for Ben 10 or Transformers Animated to come on.

I don't know, it's obviously fairly cheap as far as these films go, most of the effects sequences are terrible and don't actually seem to have been finished (the Eiffel Tower in particular looked like an animatic). As a film that doesn't have any pretensions over than to be fun though it's a decent enough way to pass a couple of hours. Not by any means the greatest film ever made, but not really deserving of any (Aha!)venom(Aha!) either.

I hadn't noticed it was a 12A before, seems a little high considering the gernerally bloodless nature of the film and the way they're careful to keep plenty of gags going to stop the more violent bits getting to intense. Something to do with the mind control bits perhaps? Either way though, nothing to stop those kids going to see it at the cinema with their parents anyway.

Not that they, or much of anyone, went to see it in this country anyway.


Possibly because there wasn't one. I'm not saying it's racist at all, there are black people out there who are pricks on that quantum level. I'm just saying it was repetitive shit for the sort of people who go and see Epic Movie. It's his standard screen persona? Good for the ****, give him a bun. That makes watching it completely tolerable.

Well, if you're not saying how the character's written was racist I'm not sure why you mention his colour every time you slag him off.

Persoanlly with more "Wacky" comedians I tend to find how much I tolerate them varies from film to film depending on how the script and direction handles them. Jim Carry and Eddie Murphy can be either brilliant or terrible from film to film. With this Waynas guy the one other thing I've seen him in was a ****ing terrible performance (Dungeon's and Dragons IIRC), here I found he actually worked though. The people I saw it with who've had the misfortune to see some of those -Movie movies were actually surprised at how much they liked his character here.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-24, 05:59 PM
I'll take that over Duke's pro faced dullness. He was by far the real weak link in the film for me, whilst it was understandable to have a "Normal" soldier as the lead who can ask all the exposition questions and center the films (God help me) "Emotional Core" how it's done does make him instantly forgettable.

I'd take neither of them, and next time not watch something so monumentally shitty. Duke being a dull prick doesn't somehow make people around him better. On their own merits, basically none of the actors or characters were any good at all, trying to rate them in order is like trying to rank issues of Youngblood - they're all shit, so what's the point? I will say that Duke was easier to ignore than most of the characters, though.

And even if he'd done a completely different gag would you still be going LOL Comedy Black Guy at it?Yup, because he was the LOL Comedy Black Guy. That was his character. His actions didn't change that, regardless of what he was doing he was only five seconds away from making some inane quip in case we forget that he might be a soldier, but hey, he's pretry chilled out and craaazy.

His schit worked fine for the role of an arrogant tosser though.No it didn't. It worked fine for a piece of formica from Salford doing a ninth-rate Jocky Scott impression. Wha's in cherge here? Teckle! It says something that he stood out as bad and unconvincing in a film packed to overflowing with the bad and unconvincing.

As a film that doesn't have any pretensions over than to be fun though it's a decent enough way to pass a couple of hours. Shame it doesn't manage it. I can't, offhand, think of many films that are actually less fun. In every respect - the effects, the plot, the acting, the level of excitement - it was like watching the world's longest PS1 cutscene. I like big dumb action, but the film is moronic in every way possible, probably making up a couple more along the way.

And the film has plenty of pretensions - there are a number of scenes (like the dreadful Paris chase) that are clearly meant to blow my socks off that fail through the people involved not having enough talent. There are scenes which are meant to have an emotional payoff (such as the whole Duke/Baroness crap) that fail because they're trite, badly written and badly acted. I'm probably meant to give a shit about Comedy Black Guy and Crap Scarlett's will-they-won't-they shit, but I actually can't remember if they get it together at the end of the film or not.

Now, those might not be the lofty aims that a film made by someone other than the director of the Mummy Returns (and the Mummy films do work, because the lead character's fun, and played by a fairly decent action/comedy actor - rather than a bunch of ****s played by a bunch of ****s) would aspire to, but they're still clear aims of the film that it can't follow through on because nobody involved has the talent to pull them off.

Well, if you're not saying how the character's written was racist I'm not sure why you mention his colour every time you slag him off.Because that's what his character was - Comedy Black Guy. Happens in lots of films (Rush Hour leaps to mind). Not racist, just unimaginative. In this case, incredibly laboured and not funny, and indicative of the production-line don't-give-a-shit nature of the film.

This film, basically, is a mix of everything people feared the Bay films would be, both from its' relation to its' origins (remove Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow - which in plot terms wouldn't actually cause too many problems - and change a few names and you've got yourself a licence free film, albeit of incredibly low quality) and in terms of its actual quality.

Halfshell
2010-06-24, 06:14 PM
Yup, because he was the LOL Comedy Black Guy. That was his character. His actions didn't change that, regardless of what he was doing he was only five seconds away from making some inane quip in case we forget that he might be a soldier, but hey, he's pretry chilled out and craaazy.

"Man you got some realistic hair... and a kung fu grip!" is perhaps the single stupidest line of dialogue I've ever encountered in a film. Forget the "ha - injoke"ness of it, it makes absolutely no sense in any context whatsoever.

there are a number of scenes (like the dreadful Paris chase) that are clearly meant to blow my socks off that fail through the people involved not having enough talent.

With bits of it being oddly reminiscent of the Mission City battle from TF. Ie Ironhide's flip. Weird.

I enjoyed it. Not sure I'd watch it again, but I enjoyed it. Though not enough to actually defend it on any level whatsoever. It's awful. Being vaguely aware of its shitness and thus having a slight air of fun if you're in the right mood is its only redeeming feature. And that's the only thing really lifting it above, say, AvP2. Pretty damning.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-24, 06:35 PM
Yeh, that and the "Real American Hero" bit just didn't make any sense, because there's no reason anyone would say those things unless they were trying to work references to a certain toyline into things. Minor crimes in the grand scheme of the film, though...

Found the thing very low on irony and self-awareness myself. They all seemed to be taking it very, very seriously - not just playing it straight as opposed to camping it up, but actually aiming for intensity.

And yup, there were definite attempts to tap the Baygeist in there. I think that's what made it so utterly pointless - Lennox & Epps actually did GI Joe better (having read the Joe comics since seeing the TF films, they're not a million miles away from being comic Duke & Roadblock), plus it really highlighted a) just how derivative the film was and b) just how bad it was.

If it was the only brainless action film ever made, I could maybe see that as some sort of credit to the thing. However, there are already plenty of two hours of stupid films out there that aren't as badly made, what's the point? What does this actually have to recommend it over any other film people are actually likely to choose to watch?

Hound
2010-06-24, 09:40 PM
I can't, offhand, think of many films that are actually less fun.I can:
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Batman and Robin
Whichever Harry Potter it was that came out last.
TF Revenge of the Fallen
That Treasure Planet Disney movie.
The last Pirates of the Caribbean
Gladiator
X-Men 3
Star Trek 1 & 5
Superman Returns
Both Scooby-Doo movies
Alvin and the Chipmunks

There are probably more but that's what I got so far...

Cliffjumper
2010-06-24, 10:33 PM
I can:
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

Might actually run it close.

Batman and RobinNah, Schwartzenegger's funnier than anything in this.

Whichever Harry Potter it was that came out last.Nope, a lot more fun there, even if it's not really my thing.

TF Revenge of the Fallen...had competently directed action scenes, quality special effects, more likable actors, at least some heroic characters who didn't earn themselves a healthy dose of cancer.

That Treasure Planet Disney movie.
The last Pirates of the Caribbean
...
X-Men 3Not seen.

GladiatorSeriously? http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k83/slartibucket/smileys/9bbc76d5.gif

Star Trek 1 & 51 has some serious visual imagination. V is B-movie terrible, and occasionally amusing. V is also a lot shorter than GI Joe...


Superman Returns
Both Scooby-Doo movies
Alvin and the Chipmunks

Not seen. Hard to imagine Returns is much worse than III, though. And III isn't as bad as RoC.

There are probably more but that's what I got so far...I've got League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, V for Vendetta, Heaven's Gate (believe the hype on that one, trust me), The Rookie, The Grandmother, Castle of Fu Manchu, Siesta, Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle and The Green Berets. Up until about 2002 I had a computer with an old bit of OS software called Cinemania, which you could use to keep track of all the films you'd seen... the last time I remember taking note of the number I'd seen it was something like 1200.

I can think of nine that were worse than this after some thought, and I went through some serious completist binges (e.g. I've seen every film Steve McQueen was ever in, I think all of Hammer horror, everything Andy Garcia/Clint Eastwood/Mickey Rourke/David Bowie/Johnny Depp/Gabriel Byrne/Malcolm McDowell was in up until about 2000, most survivng Lugosis, probably a hundred or so Spaghetti westerns...).

Hound
2010-06-24, 11:09 PM
Might actually run it close.I think what hurts LoEG so much more than GIJoe is the quality of the source material.

You cannot possibly know how much I envy you having not seen those 6 movies I listed.

There is nothing funny in Batman and Robin, it's so bad that it's gone past "so bad it's funny". It might be one of the worst films of all time. Absolutely nothing in it that isn't completely mindless Hollywood playing to the lowest common denominator bullshit.

STI suffers from being at least an hour longer than it had any business being.

I'll give you STV, I actually find Spock and McCoy mostly brilliant considering the story they find themselves in and Kirk not completely awful for the whole film despite Shatner being the director.

...had competently directed action scenesThat all the Transformers look like shit in.

RotF is almost as sorry as Batman and Robin in that it shamelessly (and shamefully, at the same time) manages to reach that same Plataea of mindless lowest common denominator bullshit and might even push it a bit farther.

It's only redeeming quality being that it manages a couple of characters that aren't so awful that you want to rip a limb from and beat them to death with it.

As for Gladiator, I don't know that it's fair I include it as I bought the DVD when it first came out having not seen the movie prior and found it so horribly dull and pointless that I've not watched it ever again. I actually don't remember almost anything about the movie anymore. I couldn't argue anything specific about the movie, I just feel angry that I paid for it and it was boring as hell.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-25, 12:36 AM
I think what hurts LoEG so much more than GIJoe is the quality of the source material.

See, the problem with source material is that quality matters less than compatibility (have ou read the book Bullitt is based on? It's dire). The problem with Alan Moore's stuff is that he's the best ****ing comic writer ever simply because he uses the medium to its' fullest extent - his comics are written to be comics, and are difficult to transfer to another medium. I mean, if you take Watchmen, the film went down pretty well and was seen as a fairly faithful adaptation (that seems to be the general consenus anyway - I couldn't stand it, though felt it's the best Moore-based film yet) - what that means is that they didn't change too much and didn't get too much wrong. For something as good as Moore's work, you're always going to have an imperfect adaptation, it's just a question of how much it misses by.

Whereas I'd say GI Joe would be a good source for adaptation - the basic material was created for two medias, after all. The concepts are fairly simple and hard to **** up.

(None of which, incidentally, exonerates LoEG from being a complete piece of shit)

To segue for a second, if I was in charge I'd have basically knobbed the loose concept of the Dirty Dozen, in loose terms of concept. Have your Duke character as a rookie still, establish Cobra as these bad bastards, have a team of a half-dozen or so Joes drilling to drop into Cobra Island and stop them. Establish a more comicbook/retro feel, brighten up the uniforms a bit (hell, give them uniforms rather than wetsuits).

TBH, all the OTT gadgetry made it feel like it was a SpyKids film with GI Joe grafted onto it at the last moment. As the above hopefully demonstrates, I wasn't expecting a serious war movie (TBH, I'm fed up to the back teeth of practically every single war film preaching how war is Hell - we know, for ****'s sake, let's have some variety), but I wasn't expecting some stupid spy-cum-scifi movie.

There is nothing funny in Batman and Robin, it's so bad that it's gone past "so bad it's funny". It might be one of the worst films of all time. Absolutely nothing in it that isn't completely mindless Hollywood playing to the lowest common denominator bullshit.Yup. And exactly the same can be said of GI Joe, but I'd probably watch B&R before I thought of watching RoC again (thankfully it's not a choice I'll ever have to make).

STI suffers from being at least an hour longer than it had any business being.I quite like the slow pace and visuals of the thing if I'm in the right mood. But I'll agree for the sake of argument - the thing is, if you sat down with an editing suite you could probably solve that, or at least cut it down a bit. Not for RoC, though.

I'll give you STV, I actually find Spock and McCoy mostly brilliant considering the story they find themselves in and Kirk not completely awful for the whole film despite Shatner being the director.Yeh, it's a very hokey kind of bad (and probably benefits from being part of a long-established series with decent films either side). Some of the little bits are alright, it never feels very long, and is rarely boring.

That all the Transformers look like shit in.

RotF is almost as sorry as Batman and Robin in that it shamelessly (and shamefully, at the same time) manages to reach that same Plataea of mindless lowest common denominator bullshit and might even push it a bit farther.I'd say it doesn't even come close to RoC in terms of the lowest common denominator, which takes the GI Joe concept and thinks "Right, how much do we have to change this so everyone will think it's awesome?". Cobra are in Paris? Better have a car chase. But wait, we can't have tanks or anything chasing Cobra, what to do? I know, we'll have some sort of magic exosuits that make the characters run really fast and jump really high! Infiltrate an underwater base? We can't just have trained troops slipping in, let's throw in a massed submarine assault!".

And the worst bit? Most of the dreadful bits come from these things that are grafted on - the Paris chase is incredibly inept when there's surely no need to have GI Joe characters running around in indestructible speed-suits. Again, someone involved somewhere in the process had the idea of the chase scene in their head before they knew what film they were making, and it was bolted onto GI Joe. RoC is a production line film which nobody involved in gave a flying **** about, dumbed to appeal to spastics and trying to check every box on the blockbuster checklist.

Whether you like the robot designs or not, ROTF has the effects talent to pull off pretty much everything it aims for (which is especially impressive considering it aims a lot higher visuals-wise). ROTF is also peppered with lots of good bits - the entire Shanghai sequence, Bay's loyalty to Ironhide, Prime unleashed in the forest, Bumblebee's friendship with Sam, Simmons, Ravage's raid on Diego Garcia. You can argue whether the film has much more, and whether or not other aspects overrule them, but there are good bits in. There was nothing good about RoC.

It's only redeeming quality being that it manages a couple of characters that aren't so awful that you want to rip a limb from and beat them to death with it.I don't agree, but again let's say I do: that's more than RoC acheived. I even wished pain on the relatively well-realised Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow by the end once it became clear we were going to have a leaden flashback every time they appeared in the same damn shot.

As for Gladiator, I don't know that it's fair I include it as I bought the DVD when it first came out having not seen the movie prior and found it so horribly dull and pointless that I've not watched it ever again. I actually don't remember almost anything about the movie anymore. I couldn't argue anything specific about the movie, I just feel angry that I paid for it and it was boring as hell.Russell Crowe puts in a good, macho performance, it pulls off practically all the spectacle it aims for, makes the most of a fairly slight plot and is fairly well placed. It's not quite the all-conquering epic many make it out to be (for my money, Master and Commander is far superior), but it's a decent action film that's something of a throwback. It's basically everything RoC completely fails to be.

Sunstreaker2
2010-06-25, 12:50 AM
I liked the A-Team movie?

Hound
2010-06-25, 05:15 AM
I quite like the slow pace and visuals of the thing if I'm in the right mood. But I'll agree for the sake of argument - the thing is, if you sat down with an editing suite you could probably solve that, or at least cut it down a bit. Not for RoC, though.Ok, but I can sit down and watch the GIJoe movie and enjoy it for what it is, probably get a chuckle here and there and say what parts I like and don't. STI I can sit down and watch, cringe at the acting mostly and more to the point probably fall asleep to it before it reaches the half way mark. It's boring.
I'd say it doesn't even come close to RoC in terms of the lowest common denominator, which takes the GI Joe concept and thinks "Right, how much do we have to change this so everyone will think it's awesome?"No, I'm sure they didn't right away take a look at Transformers and go, "Right, how much do we have to change this so everyone will think it's awesome?" Heh...

The first shot of Megan Fox is her ass. I'm sure Bay was all about substance...
I don't agree, but again let's say I do: that's more than RoC acheived.Oh yeah, the two robots badly pretending to be Marlan Wayans in Don't Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking Your Juice in the Hood were just genius. Wheelie was also grand. Those were the TFs that actually had any character and they were played entirely for laughs. Which would have been fine except instead of amused I found myself annoyed. Then there's the human characters which all get the same treatment except for Sam and Mikaela and the two military guys, even then Sam and Mikaela still manage to mostly annoy.

While the characters in GIJoe aren't exceptional I don't hate them. Even Wayans is remarkably toned down from anything else I've seen him in.

Of course it's also possible that because I've more emotionally invested in TFs than GIJoe my perception of each isn't entirely unbiased.
Russell Crowe puts in a good, macho performance, it pulls off practically all the spectacle it aims for, makes the most of a fairly slight plot and is fairly well placed. It's not quite the all-conquering epic many make it out to be (for my money, Master and Commander is far superior), but it's a decent action film that's something of a throwback. It's basically everything RoC completely fails to be.Maybe I need to give the movie another watch one of these days. I just don't remember having any emotional reaction to the movie at all while watching it. I was just uninterested or maybe just really tired that day and couldn't focus, I dunno...

Halfshell
2010-06-25, 08:15 AM
Found the thing very low on irony and self-awareness myself. They all seemed to be taking it very, very seriously - not just playing it straight as opposed to camping it up, but actually aiming for intensity.

I meant that the film itself knows it's shit, rather than the actors playing it as knowing it's shit. Almost as if it's doing it all on purpose... genetically designed to be godawful, even down to playing it deadly straight.

I hope, anyway. Because let's face it, the alternative is that everybody involved actually thought they were making a genuine action film. Which is too scary to put into words, given the overall content.

I like Gladiator.

inflatable dalek
2010-06-25, 10:57 AM
This thread broke my internet yesterday.

So, quick as possible catchup...

"Man you got some realistic hair... and a kung fu grip!" is perhaps the single stupidest line of dialogue I've ever encountered in a film. Forget the "ha - injoke"ness of it, it makes absolutely no sense in any context whatsoever.

I've seen people say stranger things that that under medication (and other, less legal substances).


Yeh, that and the "Real American Hero" bit just didn't make any sense, because there's no reason anyone would say those things unless they were trying to work references to a certain toyline into things. Minor crimes in the grand scheme of the film, though...

I don't know, would the RAH bit have actually stood out to you at all if you hadn't been aware of it's meaning beforehand? It seems fairly natural dialogue to me, Ripcord bigging up his friend as the dogs bollocks.

Found the thing very low on irony and self-awareness myself. They all seemed to be taking it very, very seriously - not just playing it straight as opposed to camping it up, but actually aiming for intensity.

Duke was (though that's the nature of the part), just about everyone else seemed to be having fun to me though. Especially the Third Rock From the Sun bloke, absolutely nailed that part perfectly. Special mention to Pryce for hamming it up marvellously as a cowardly President but still showing his skills as an actor in his last scene by managing to seem like a different person when just relaxing in his office (to the point where they almost didn't need the whistling). Quaid, The Mummy and Breaker were also having a blast as well.

V is also a lot shorter than GI Joe...

By 11 minuets. It might have seemed an eternity to you but there's not much in it and both are unusually short for big Summer blockbusters (not that that's automatically a bad thing).

Of the long list of films mentioned, I'd suppose being completely objective Trek V is by far the most incompetently made, but I still have a sneaking fondness for it. I actually fell asleep during Gladiator and haven't been overwhelmed to revisit up, but that's more to do with my post-Beautiful Mind Crowe hatred than anything else.

Batman and Robin is also fairly terrible (nothing wrong with a camp comedy Batman, but the 60's show cast new to make it work they had to play it straight, everyones to arch in this film), but Arnie is fun, it's endlessly quotable and is probably a better young kids film than any of the others, my six year old cousin loves it. The guy who says "...AND YOU ARRRRRRE?" to Poison Ivy in the auction and manages to put the emphasis on every word was very nearly the 8th Doctor as well.

Though at the end of the day, I could spend hours naming films I've found to be worse (and films I've found to be much better. I'm not claiming it to be at either end of the quality scale, just that I enjoyed it.

The first shot of Megan Fox is her ass. I'm sure Bay was all about substance...

I have no objections to Megan Fox's arse. IIRC from his SFX interview Bay decided to put that shot in because every single teenage boy he'd met since the first one had asked more questions about Fox than they had the robots. Give the people what they want.


Of course it's also possible that because I've more emotionally invested in TFs than GIJoe my perception of each isn't entirely unbiased.

To b fair, I would probably die a thousand death's if a Transformers movie turned out like this. My complete detachment from the Joe source material means I don't care the movie is frothy nonsense. Perhaps that's a double standard, so shoot me.

nd the worst bit? Most of the dreadful bits come from these things that are grafted on - the Paris chase is incredibly inept when there's surely no need to have GI Joe characters running around in indestructible speed-suits.

Now there's where we differ again, I thought the super suit chase, something that on paper shouldn't have worked, was the highlight of the film. Fast paced, coupled with some decent real stunts with the cars (better than the dodgy CGI going on the other side of Paris) and fun.

Sunstreaker2
2010-06-25, 11:51 PM
Okay, guess you guys either never saw the A-Team movie or liked it. :p

Cliffjumper
2010-06-29, 06:29 PM
I've seen people say stranger things that that under medication (and other, less legal substances).

Rarely - they usually just say everyday things in strange contexts.

I don't know, would the RAH bit have actually stood out to you at all if you hadn't been aware of it's meaning beforehand? It seems fairly natural dialogue to me, Ripcord bigging up his friend as the dogs bollocks.

Nothing in the film sounded like natural dialogue. The leaden delivery of that line, like the little pauses for everyone to laugh at the crazy black guy, killed any chance of subtlety.

Quaid, The Mummy and Breaker were also having a blast as well.

Well, there we go, as long as the well-paid actors are having a fun jolly why give a shit about the end product, eh?

Now there's where we differ again, I thought the super suit chase, something that on paper shouldn't have worked, was the highlight of the film. Fast paced, coupled with some decent real stunts with the cars (better than the dodgy CGI going on the other side of Paris) and fun.

Which good stunts? It looked like something out of SkyKids 3, and was basically the moment any patina of credibility disappeared.

inflatable dalek
2010-06-29, 06:37 PM
Well, there we go, as long as the well-paid actors are having a fun jolly why give a shit about the end product, eh?

Personally I found the fact the cast were enjoying themselves helped the overall film greatly.



Which good stunts? It looked like something out of SkyKids 3, and was basically the moment any patina of credibility disappeared.

The bit with them going right through the train was especially fun.

What's wrong with being like Spy Kids anyway?

Cliffjumper
2010-06-29, 07:06 PM
That Skykids had already done it and if they'd wanted to do a Spykids film they should have done that.

Personally I found the fact the cast were enjoying themselves helped the overall film greatly.

Personally I'd rather they did their jobs and acted instead. Maybe I'm just too used to watching actual good films.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-30, 02:17 PM
In news not related to a dire rogue TV Movie, I've gone a bit AF/Joe mental with my huge overtime payment...

Recent arrivals: -

Eighties Gung-Ho: as gay as a fence.
Alpine: Bloody awesome, it's just a shame his skin is literally the same colour as his trousers.
Blowtorch: kind-of a lame prototype of Barbecue. Cool suit, but the solid mask that stops his head turning is a pain.
Quick Kick: bought as a concession to his UK comic appearances, and not bad. I especially like his sword's storage on his backpack. Less impressed with the way said backpack seems to be grafted to his skin.
Airtight: Awesome fella, partner in crime for Barbecue. What the world needs, though, is a Masterpiece Blades & Centurion twin-pack so I can get around to recreating "Ancient Relics".
Quarrel: Action Force redeco of the original Scarlet as a UK paratroop-style chick. The general butchness of the figure and the new scheme means she basically looks totally different to the more modern Scarlet I already have.
Baroness: The original, who isn't quite as square-jawed in the plastic. Certainly better than the anoreix mid-2000s one I had a while back, anyway.
Comics three-pack containing Duke, Roadblock and Destro (plus that issue where Storm Shadow rescues Cobra Commander in that snowy forest): mainly bought for Destro, who's cool (and doesn't have a soundchip that goes "Nae batter!" or "Take this Goodwillie ya wee ****!"). I'm guessing this is one of the precedents for that King Grimlock MP, as the Joes use the Marvel palette in eye-bleeding fashion, notably Roadblock's bright yellow trousers.
25th Anniversary HISS: Pretty cool - the shape of the thing actually really reminds me of the Gobots' Command Center in its' flying mode, which is a plus.I've got something like 25 more items on the way too. Thus far it's generally been surprisingly cheap, through a mix of the smallish UK fandom (who seem even more cowardly and uncertain than Transformers fans when it comes to online auctions - one good reducer will land you most items because others always seem to give up and wait for one 10p cheaper) and the wide number of Chinese factory thieves who steal vast quantities of the same figure and auction them with very reasonable shipping.

The only frustration so far is my problem with waiting for figures to actually come up in UK auctions - I'm quite after both Falcon and Lifeline, who don't seem particularly scarce, but there are never any for sale in the UK, but dozens in America all listed by sellers who think £25 is perfectly reasonable shipping for a 3 3/4" figure.

Hound
2010-06-30, 02:25 PM
...but dozens in America all listed by sellers who think £25 is perfectly reasonable shipping for a 3 3/4" figure.Y'know, while searching for TFs recently I've been amazed by how much more reasonable the shipping by sellers in the UK is than these people in the US. It's crazy...

Cliffjumper
2010-06-30, 03:11 PM
Y'know, while searching for TFs recently I've been amazed by how much more reasonable the shipping by sellers in the UK is than these people in the US. It's crazy...

Part of it, I believe, is the postal services - Royal Mail have a certain amount of built-in insurance. However, the difference is bigger than it should be - a lot of it seems to be sellers being basically unwilling to ship outside America unless there's some sort of extra incentive.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170506057327 - UK shipping quoted at $34 US.

Hound
2010-06-30, 03:26 PM
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170506057327 - UK shipping quoted at $34 US.****!

Halfshell
2010-06-30, 03:32 PM
Yeah, but that's Priority International Mail!

Because obviously if you're willing to fork out $0.99 for a 23 year old toy, you're going to want it as fast as physically possible.

Hound
2010-06-30, 03:39 PM
I could buy him and then send him to you for probably way cheaper.

Cliffjumper
2010-06-30, 03:41 PM
I keep working out setups to take more pictures, but as soon as I get it just right new stuff arrives. And I've already lost track of which gun belongs to which chap, and am much too lazy to use YoJoe to work it out. I do love the way the newer ones have little holsters with actual pistols in, though - when I was a nipper it used to frustrate me beyond reason that your bloke would be basically fist-fighting with someone when he had three weapons moulded onto his legs.

EDIT@ Hound: Cheers for the offer, I think I'll just learn a bit of patience, there were a couple of 'em on ebay UK pretty cheap that ended before I got paid :)

Cliffjumper
2010-07-01, 01:56 PM
Got 25th Anniversary Bazooka, Lady Jaye, Major Bludd and Snake-Eyes (commando). Snake-Eyes reassigned as Stalker accordingly (http://www.bloodforthebaron.com/toys/002/sas/018/index.html) (saving me about twenty quid and getting the chap knees into the bargain). The 25th figures seem ****ing massive, don't they? Bazooka's about a head taller than anyone else, which isn't such a problem, but having Lady Jaye towering over, say, Airtight is weird. I'm planning on mining the 25th anniversary figures so it's not a huge problem, but it's tough on the guys who haven't been done in that style.

Also downloaded the first couple of cartoon minis. The first few minutes are less than encouraging what with the world's slowest, dullest theme tune. No, wait, there's some serious porn-funk disco music now. Awesome. Everyone's talking really sloooowly.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-01, 05:40 PM
Did they recast, like, everyone for the cartoon movie? About the only voices that seem particularly recognisable are Duke, Flint and Cobra Commander...

The second mini's a lot better, possibly just because of the higher quantity of Flint.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-01, 05:54 PM
All the same actors as far as I know. So is it actually good enough to be worth getting the super super boxset? If only in a G1 cartoon "Light fluff to have on when ironing" way?

Hound
2010-07-01, 05:58 PM
Did they recast, like, everyone for the cartoon movie? About the only voices that seem particularly recognisable are Duke, Flint and Cobra Commander...

The second mini's a lot better, possibly just because of the higher quantity of Flint.Yeah but there's no Hawk!

AFAIK, there was no recasting for the cartoon movie. Cullen is still doing Gung-Ho and Ross is still Shipwreck, Welker is still everybody else...

Cliffjumper
2010-07-01, 06:03 PM
It's so far quite low on the insultingly stupid, actually. Not good - no smarter than, say, the film's non-Cobra La bits, but not being particularly into the characters while at the same time being vaguely aware of them is actually a pretty good level - Duke or Roadblock doing something stupid is less irritating than Optimus Prime doing something stupid, y'know?

That said, they might've packed the mini-series in the same way Transformers and Gobots did, and the 'regular' episodes could be shit - I remember one or two I saw on those Tempo Action & Adventure tapes were Sea Change/Making Tracks level shite, without the "I had Seapsray/Tracks as a kid and kinda liked him, so I'll put up with this" factor.

The second one's not bad in a rambling 1980s toy cartoon sort of way. The first one is very... drowsy, with quite cheap animation and quite a dull look to it.

Hound
2010-07-01, 09:11 PM
I haven't seen all of season 2 but as a whole it doesn't get quite as ridiculous as the TF cartoon got. That's not to say there isn't any absurdness. There's just not a "Carnage in C-Minor" is what I'm saying. Generally there's less animation errors I think, at least I didn't notice it like I do with TF. Still it is a Sunbow cartoon so it's not any kind of masterpiece of art.

As for the mini-series I'm fond of both equally, them being more or less the same exact story. Shipwreck being in the second makes it a little more likable I suppose...

Cliffjumper
2010-07-02, 12:55 PM
The regular episodes are a bit Transformers, but it just washes over nicely for the large part. The voices are starting to sound a bit better, though I think it was mainly me - so used to hearing Flint or Destro say two lines hundreds of times that it sounds weird when they say much more. At the same time, glad I didn't spend any money on it. I'm current watching what seems to be A Prime Problem with Dukes.

Major toy arrival day:

- XF-14 Skystriker: Excellent, and not quite as huge as I feared (bit worried it would dwarf the Rattler). Only missing Ace, but not the end of the world.
- X-30 Conquest: Basically free with the above. Niftier than I was expecting.
- 25th Cobra Commander (with the mask, not the hood), Baroness, Firefly, Crimson Guard, Cobra Trooper: Generally verrry nice, it's currently very tempting to army build but that'd cost a fortune right now, must find time to go through the Chinese factory thieves and see what prices I can get. The only one that's a minor let down is the Baroness, who still isn't quite right; the legs up to her elbows are certainly very strange. Might have to get a 25th Destro now so she doesn't tower over him, though I might just keep the original.
- 25th Snake-Eyes, Shipwreck, Will Bill, Snow Job, Gung Ho: Pretty good once more. Snake-Eyes is the grill-mask version, because that's the way Geoff Senior drew him. Shipwreck is excellent, as is Snow Job with his skiing kit. Gung-Ho cranks down the gay just enough without losing being Gung Ho. The only problem with Wild Bill is I think those pistol holsters are going to stop him fitting in a Dragonfly if I ever get one - they certainly mean he can't go in a Skystriker. A lot of the 25th anniversary's lovely rubber belts and packs are a bit incompatible, sadly.

I also got Iceberg, Dialtone and Hawk (the one with the brown jacket, like in the '87 film), but they had the misfortune to arrive on the same day as the above mentioned and thus haven't been looked at.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-02, 01:29 PM
OMFG Shipwreck just dropped a coyote down a ravine.

Hound
2010-07-02, 04:17 PM
Looks like you've got a mission for Alpine!

Cliffjumper
2010-07-02, 09:58 PM
Looks like you've got a mission for Alpine!

Not my Shipwreck, the Shipwreck on the telly... He's flying in this helicopter thing and this coyote leaps up and grabs his bellbottoms, so he flies over a ravine (and I mean a big ****ing ravine), kicks it off and laughs. I love Shipwreck.

I'm quite enjoying the cartoon - objectively thus far it's better than Transformers, it seems a lot better with a) sharing out screentime effectively and b) making the characters have a smidgeon of individuality (unlike Transformers, where most of the Autobots are basically the same). That said, like with Gobots, there are definite staple plots here that Don Glut-esque hacks probably rewrote for five or six different series. The voices for the unnamed Cobra troopers also throw me as well - every now and then some random trooper will shout something generic like "Get him!" in Optimus Prime's voice.

Hound
2010-07-03, 05:17 AM
The voices for the unnamed Cobra troopers also throw me as well - every now and then some random trooper will shout something generic like "Get him!" in Optimus Prime's voice.Wait til you get to the episode with Airborne and his brother. Hope you don't mind hearing Optimus yell "TOMMY!" for a whole episode...

inflatable dalek
2010-07-03, 06:57 AM
Not my Shipwreck, the Shipwreck on the telly... He's flying in this helicopter thing and this coyote leaps up and grabs his bellbottoms, so he flies over a ravine (and I mean a big ****ing ravine), kicks it off and laughs. I love Shipwreck.

I think you've just sold me on that boxset come payday.

Halfshell
2010-07-03, 10:45 AM
There's one thing that's really, really stopping me from wanting that boxset.

It's the knowledge that every episode will have this:
5YjfGex5JHY

Instead of this:
eCaoBYYj3_I

inflatable dalek
2010-07-03, 03:07 PM
It just sounds so much better doesn't it? Even beyond nostalgia reasons. Though did it really have its own completely original opening animation or was GI Joe like Transformers with different versions for every season with that one of the other ones (and possibly with the music more based on the version that goes with those credits)?

Surely it must be an extra on the DVD's at least?

EDIT: Though come to think of it, they'd have only bothered to redub the few episodes that actually made it onto video wouldn't they?

And look, Ultra Serious British Guy starts his voiceover as Flint comes on screen, he must be British! [According to my logic as a child].

Actually, if cartoon Flint wasn't a Brit why did his daughter talk like that in the TF cartoon?

Halfshell
2010-07-03, 03:24 PM
It just sounds so much better doesn't it? Even beyond nostalgia reasons.

Mmm. It's just that little bit more uptempo, giving it a more kinetic sense of urgency. I could probably get used to the more langorous US version if not for the awful use of pronouns (it's a collective - use "it" or "they", not "he").

It is however purely nostalgia that I prefer the Action Force opening to the movie. Until I got the GI Joe version on DVD I didn't even know it had been chopped... I prefer the shorter non-lyrical intro solely because it's the only one I ever saw. Though I rationalise it by saying that it's got more frantic editing and is therefore more exciting. Yes, that's it.

I remember being so awestruck when I got some videos with episodes of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on... ever after that the changes in the credits that had been made for the Hero version jarred every time I saw them.

I'll always prefer the Action Force intro, though.

Though did it really have its own completely original opening animation or was GI Joe like Transformers with different versions for every season with that one of the other ones (and possibly with the music more based on the version that goes with those credits)?

They only did two seasons, iirc. Beyond the minis. The season 1 credits are what I linked above, season 2 as follows:

BeP_OhS9_Kc

I'm willing to stand corrected, though. The first two minis and Serpentor intro eps may well have had their own sequences.

EDIT: Though come to think of it, they'd have only bothered to redub the few episodes that actually made it onto video wouldn't they?

Almost certainly. I don't know if it was even on tv over here... if it was it was probably incorporated into one of the Saturday morning shows and possibly had the credits chopped out. My only exposure came as vids, but then I was mostly ex-pat at the time.

And look, Ultra Serious British Guy starts his voiceover as Flint comes on screen, he must be British! [According to my logic as a child].

I'd buy that for 60-odd pence.

Actually, if cartoon Flint wasn't a Brit why did his daughter talk like that in the TF cartoon?

Maybe her mum was of The Empire? Maybe everybody speaks the Queen's in the future? Except for Spike and Daniel.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-03, 03:27 PM
It's a GI Joe title sequence - I think for the first full season. Is that Patrick Allen doing the voiceover?

Flint does actually have a fairly neutral-macho voice. The Joe characters only seem to be particularly American if they're from the South. The other strange thing is that Roadblock doesn't seem to rhyme that often - which makes no sense; he talks normally when he's hanging out with the Joes, but you have Nemesis Enforcer knock the crap out of him and sent him out into the Himalayas blind and holding a snake-thing and suddenly he talks in verse...

Plus there's just been an episode based entirely on that old "I am the viper and I'm here to vipe your vindows" joke.

EDIT: The TV theme tunes thus far suck - with the whole "existing music only" thing I'd got it into my head they all had something close to the rocked-out version used at the start of that (at least the GI Joe section - it's as corny as ****, yet strangely compelling... the TV versions just sound like Willie Nelson's singing them).

Halfshell
2010-07-03, 03:28 PM
Hang on. There's this too...

vw4pJaYjNQo

Which has the higher tempo music, with the GI Joe lyrics. But oddly the visuals include clips from the movie, which doesn't fit with... well, anything, as it says it's from the Serpentor eps.

I'm confused.

Halfshell
2010-07-03, 03:38 PM
Aaaand [I know I'm double posting but who's online says Dalek's replying and it'll get lost in the shuffle unless I go for the overlap like a shit fullback who doesn't realise he's meant to be defending] then there's this:

LGe8eFKBZmA

Which has different animation, the slowed down theme tune, a different spoken word voice-over and specifies "Cobra and Destro" as opposed to "Cobra, the Enemy". I'm guessing that's from the original mini.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-03, 03:38 PM
Yeh, that's the Movie theme (it might have been used on, like, Season 2, not got that far yet). That's nearly all Movie clips, and older stuff (from commercials I think) - could well be for a syndicated rerun, and IIRC the film was the last thing Sunbow did and I doubt DIC used their animation for title sequences. In which case you'd have to wonder why they didn't simply edit down the Statue of Liberty battle...

EDIT: Yep, that's the first mini.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-03, 03:42 PM
Might be be from some equivalent to the "5th Season" of Transformers, with Slaughter filling the Powermaster Prime role and cheap new credits made of old clips, including the movie as presumably a five part version of that would have been featured as well?

Is that actually Flint's normal voice saying "YO JO!" in the other American credits sequences?

By the time I saw the Joe film on DVD it had been so long since I'd seen it on video that I can't remember the editing differences, though obviously the song wouldn't have been on there. The fact they tried to do a musical number is part of the reason I can't hate it. I don't think I've seen a Ninja version of the Turltes cartoon, even now. When a friend got some Thundercats videos second hand at the start of the decade the edits to Panthro were amazingly obvious though. And different from episode to episode, on one they just stuck a different clip in his place, in the other they just cut him out entirely with a jump in the music.

We all agree the Rank gong man and deep husky voiceover version of Transformers is the best?

I've chatted about this with friends before, and non of us can every remember seeing Action Force on TV, only on video. I know that's not conclusive, but I certainly didn't see a TV episode until the early 90's, we only ever bothered with the movie video. Though thanks to the Temple trailer I knew the theme off by heart.

Halfshell
2010-07-03, 03:45 PM
Yeh, that's the Movie theme

Quite right. It's not the AF theme, but the extended movie one. I knew I'd heard it somewhere else today (I've done FAR too much research on this... as an aside, the Silverhawks intro is fab and I'd forgotten how AWESOME the intro to Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors was).

I know what you mean about it being strangely compelling. I'm getting used to it slowly but it's still not a patch on the uptempo Action Force version.

The one occasion where I tried watching the GI Joe Movie DVD I turned off after a few minutes because it was nowhere near as good as I remember. It's only today that I've realised I was just thrown by the different [read: proper] intro. Much in the same way TF:TM is wrong without the Rank gong and the scrolling text intro. Puts you on the wrongfoot for the entire thing.

could well be for a syndicated rerun, and IIRC the film was the last thing Sunbow did and I doubt DIC used their animation for title sequences.

That makes more sense. I always forget that season 2 of Transformers actually comprised the new episodes plus a rerun of season 1 with the new credits thrown on. That's entirely likely then.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-03, 03:46 PM
Two straight posts praising the rank Gong man. That officially makes it the best version.

Halfshell
2010-07-03, 03:50 PM
I don't think I've seen a Ninja version of the Turltes cartoon, even now.

Hero version, complete with really obvious stuttering freeze frame on Michelangelo as the logo pops up
5QkBT0uke4o

And the unedited version. I think that freeze might be the only difference but dammit once I'd seen it flow I never forgave it.
LxrON0RBnCQ

We all agree the Rank gong man and deep husky voiceover version of Transformers is the best?

I wrote my post before reading that. :o

inflatable dalek
2010-07-03, 04:01 PM
And the unedited version. I think that freeze might be the only difference but dammit once I'd seen it flow I never forgave it.

A few other brief shots of Nunchucks have been removed, and a (reletively) lengthy clip of Michaelangelo using them before Splinter gets changed has been replaced with Kang. Hilariously though they haven't noticed the final shot of the Terrordome rising up starts with a close up of them in his hands.

The edits to the film completely change the tone of the ending, in the one released here Shredder basically commits comedy suicide by running off the end of the building. In the original Splinter murders him by throwing him off the edge with Mike's discarded weapon.

Am I the only one who prefers the TV origin to Splinter as opposed to the film/original comic take?


I wrote my post before reading that. :o

Great minds think alike.

And us two numpties.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-03, 04:02 PM
There're at least two different versions of the Action Force dub out there - the original release had the Statue of Liberty battle - I can't remember what they did with the music, though I definitely remember the COBRA! COBRAAA! bit being in there... I have half an idea that the GI Joe lyrics were left intact, but the Action Force voiceover was dubbed on. Then there was a budget one from the 1990s, which was called GI Joe on the sleeve, used on of the cartoon intros in place of the Statue of Liberty sequence (and thus was a massive disappointment when I picked it up in a charity shop a few years ago), but used the Action Force dialogue dubs. I've got the proper American version as a DVD rip, and it still throws me that the dialogue's different.

If Action Force was shown on TV, it'd have been on satellite most likely... ITV were about the only people who'd show toy cartoons (C4 couldn't afford them), and I suspect anything that wasn't major just got squeezed out. Even Transformers, a real heavyweight over here, only had something like the first season and a bit of the second actually screened on terrestrial TV.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-03, 04:06 PM
Hilariously though they haven't noticed the final shot of the Terrordome rising up starts with a close up of them in his hands.

They had no problem with him holding them, he just never got to use them. Same thing tended to happen to Donatello's whacking stick... Which is why everyone in Britain liked Leonardo and Raphael better than the two wuss ones.

Halfshell
2010-07-03, 04:13 PM
There're at least two different versions of the Action Force dub out there - the original release had the Statue of Liberty battle - I can't remember what they did with the music, though I definitely remember the COBRA! COBRAAA! bit being in there... I have half an idea that the GI Joe lyrics were left intact, but the Action Force voiceover was dubbed on.

The one I had on video (well, the one my dad copied to betamax from a video we rented... don't tell anybody) almost certainly had this intro:

BRf4c-p6VWg

It was only on seeing it today that I remembered it. One of those instant recognition things. Faster paced, no voices, cut down so that it's so much busier and approximately 98% explosions.

The DVD I picked up in Woolies for about £2 had the full length American credits on. :/

inflatable dalek
2010-07-03, 04:18 PM
You seem to have linked that wrong, but having looked on youtube directly...

It's a different voiceover guy doing the Action Force speech! Ruins the whole thing. Couldn't they have just used the TV version?

Halfshell
2010-07-03, 04:20 PM
You seem to have linked that wrong

LIES!

but having looked on youtube directly...

You have no way of knowing that it's the same video I intended to link to linked to.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-03, 04:24 PM
Yet strangely it is.

I'm currently rewatching Danger Mouse (mainly because everytime I check Facebook I see him on my T-shirt in my newish profile pic and it puts me in the mood). That's probably the best cartoon theme tune of all time isn't it?

Though it's annoying the complete series boxset keeps the individual volumes random ordering as you never know if it's going to be one of the ten minuet early episodes or the later half hour ones ("Ah, just enough time for some Danger Mouse before I go to work... Errr, whys it still on?").

Halfshell
2010-07-03, 04:26 PM
("Ah, just enough time for some Danger Mouse before I go to work... Errr, whys it still on?").

Yeah, I made it about halfway through the second disc before I got properly fed up of never knowing how long I was going to be there for. I probably should get back to it at some point.

I also keep meaning to order the Count Duckula boxset.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-03, 04:28 PM
Oh yeh, now I see it that's definately the one (especially remember the titles). Wonder where the Cobra thing got imprinted, then? Ahhh... Possibly Brendan's downloads here, which I'd have got a good 3/4 years before I saw the film again.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-03, 04:35 PM
Yeah, I made it about halfway through the second disc before I got properly fed up of never knowing how long I was going to be there for. I probably should get back to it at some point.

At least it's not just me. I think that was the reason I didn't finish the set first time round as well. It doesn't help though that the DVD player in my bedroom is a cheap one that doesn't have the option on the on-screen display to see how much the running time is. Great, great show though. I'm probably physically laughing out loud more than I should be at my age.

I also keep meaning to order the Count Duckula boxset.

My Mother's just decided to get it me for my birthday. In four months. She'll never remember.

I have no memory of that Action Force film opening either, though the only bits that really stuck in the mind was the "Wassssssss onccczzzze A mannnnnnnn" stuff.

Halfshell
2010-07-03, 09:26 PM
nx7uxUaePBQ

Highlight of my evening: Youtube comment "It all sounds like Rammstein to me"

inflatable dalek
2010-07-04, 02:52 AM
Do you know that's the second video you've embedded in this thread that the uploader has fixed so it won't work if embedded? EDIT: Oddly the other one was the American version of the Turtles theme. It's like the Hero Turtle people are trying to to stop others finding out about the nunchucks.

It comes to something that the Germans get a less edited version than us.

Halfshell
2010-07-04, 06:15 AM
Do you know that's the second video you've embedded in this thread that the uploader has fixed so it won't work if embedded?

Yes. Link still works though.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-04, 01:09 PM
"Worlds Without End", which I've just finished, wins point for actually being fairly good. It's a alternate-universe-where-Cobra wins one, and it's not perfect, but there's stuff I really wouldn't expect from Sunbow in it - a rolecall of the dead AU Joes, Steeler having a complete breakdown and then finding his double's skeleton along with those of other Joes, and then Steeler, Clutch and Grunt decide to stay and face almost certain death with the alternate universe resistance.

I mean, Christ, did Transformers ever give three old characters that sort of send-off? It's not Watchmen, but it's really not bad for a 1980s kids cartoon.

Halfshell
2010-07-04, 01:20 PM
I remember that one really vividly from when I had it as a kid. Really quite good stuff, for what it is. If I'd had any actual connection to Steeler or Clutch it could possibly have traumatised me.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-04, 01:28 PM
It was the "Hey, we're not using these old guys anymore, let's give them an ending" bit that really got me - the equivalent of Bluestreak, Mirage and Sunstreaker being taken along for Chaos and then left to look after the planet instead of just completely disappearing.

Plus it's a Flint episode instead of a Duke one. I tell you what, it'd be interesting to see how many of the UK VHS releases were skewed that way...

Halfshell
2010-07-04, 02:04 PM
To be honest, I don't remember much of Duke at all beyond his turn in the Movie (and possibly Serpentor?).

I had it in my mind as a kid that Duke wasn't in Action Force at all, only GI Joe. I remember when I first encountered Duke in the cartoon I rationalised him as "the American equivalent of Flint." The AF comic reprints in TF may possibly have caused/reinforced this notion.

The whole Pyramids of Darkness series, the Serpentor saga and War Without End are the only episodes that I properly remember outside of the movie.

I've got vague memories of one with some stepford thing in a town called Springfield [which may have been connected to WWOE, I'm not sure]... plus the one where the Dreadknocks form a band and another where they go searching for some sort of memento from Dracula to help defeat Serpentor.

But War Without End was the one that always stuck in my mind, partly for the creepy alternate universe stuff, partly the whole "finding your own dead alternate self" thing, and also for invoking the sense of "we're never going to see these characters again" for perhaps the first time in watching a cartoon. I'd already seen TF:TM by that point, so was used to robots dying but knew they could always come back. Even though I didn't really have much attachment to Clutch, I just felt an inarticulable sadness at the knowledge that he was gone. Quite affecting stuff for a kid. I've been quite intrigued to see it again, but was scared that it was just my childhood memories being dodgy... good to see it still stands up.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-04, 02:42 PM
I remember thinking Duke must've been new - what with the injury midway through (yeh, totally bought it as a nipper) I basically had him down as Ultra Magnus, and remember being downright baffled by the tiny/non-existent roles for Flint, Destro, Bazooka, Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow etc. - and kept expecting Flint to die, like Optimus Prime. Serpentor I could just never work out - so, he's in Cobra and he outranks Cobra Commander? Eh? He was a bit try-hard with all those snakes and junk as well.

We can look back and laugh at the spit-and-bailing-twine patch-up Hasbro/Marvel UK did at the time, but it didn't half work, did it?

I don't think I really saw many episodes - the only one that really stuck in my mind is the one where a bunch of them pretend to be Wild Bill's family at a ranch for some random reason, which'd inevitably be the tape my parents rented. Weirdly, one of my strongest AF memories is my mum matter-of-factly explaining it was called GI Joe in America, which I just accepted (because she's my mum and mums know everything) at the time, but now I'm quite baffled as to how she knew this in, what, 1987.

Halfshell
2010-07-04, 02:53 PM
I think I'd seen Arise Serpentor Arise before the Movie, so fortunately that one didn't mix me up at all.

Wasn't GI Joe the US name equivalent of Action Man as well? Knowing that AM evolved into AF, probably not a leap to know that Joe was still the equivalent.

I was aware of it whilst I was getting the toys, but that may have been because most of what I got were imports. Some with German cards, some with English, some with American. I remember spending ages poring over the "also available" checklists on the back of the German ones, memorising the foreign names. My BAT was called something totally different. RAAST or something like that. And I had a Cosmoviper instead of an Astroviper. I think. Yay.

Then of course there was that wacky GI Joe / Action Force crossover pullout comic in the middle of one of the TF issues. Which made me absolutely certain that yes, Duke was off running GI Joe with Scarlett which is why they wasn't in any of the Action Force episodes.

We can look back and laugh at the spit-and-bailing-twine patch-up Hasbro/Marvel UK did at the time, but it didn't half work, did it?

Yep. They'd never get away with it nowadays as the internet means knowledge is readily available to anybody who knows how to go looking. I had no idea at the time that half the stories in the TF comics were reprints from the US with the other half being weaved around it. Sticks out like a sore thumb once you realise, but the point being none of us had any reason to question it. Things occasionally didn't add up, but no worse than Shrapnel being on Junk after he'd been recycled.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-04, 04:54 PM
Apparently all three Joe's from Worlds Without End show up again later on, two as background guys in the film and one as a regular in the Dic show, with no explanation. Interestingly, even though the Dic show seems to be hated and ignored by most fans the Movie appearence of these guys doesn't seem to be put down to a mistake and people seem to accept they just came back. I don't know if that's because the Joe cartoon was less error filled than Transformers so fans just take what it says on faith more than we do.


The patching up of the Action Force/Joe stories was well done, especially considering that unlike Transformers they weren't just reprinting the American stuff in order from the start but basically began in the middle and then went on to do stories in a seemingly random way (but I'm guessing to tie into the release pattern of the toys over here).

The letters page of the Ancients Relics issues has a few letters from both Americans and Brits talking about the GI Joe comic, if that was fairly common and cliffy ever brought the title that's where his Mum might have picked up that info. Though considering how well remembered and iconic Action Man still is in this country that might still have been a well known tidbit as Halfshell says.

I actually always thought Serpentor was pretty cool as a kid, but as said, my only exposure to the cartoon was the film where he seems comparatively normal.

Just to clarify something from earlier, it's not just nostalgia reasons I think the British version of the Transformers film works better. The opening narration makes it much, much more accessible to new viewers by explaining the backstory. I know the opening Ironhide/Prime scene tries to do a bit of that but doesn't really manage it, and the only thing the post credits narration does is establish the changes to the set up since the TV show.

And remember, this was a film that was trying to reach as wide an audience as possible even though the hordes of 8 year olds who knew it all backwards would potentially have been enough to keep the film in the green. Hence the "Big Name" casting and the "Oh shit" (which according to the Chris McFeelgood commentary was included solely to get the film a higher rating so it would play later in the day when older collage students might go see it).

What does the American version give us? Some Superman rip off credits highlighting names that as a kid you don't care about and as an adult 95% have faded into complete obscurity (Judd Nelson is actually a less exciting name than some of the shows regular voice actors. He never got an axe in the back in a Kubrik film for a start).

The narration is very well written and read as well, just simple exposition manages to feel hugely dramatic. Compared to the UK version of Star Trek IV, which opens with a bored Shatner recounting the plot of the last two films in a Captain's log with clips only for the second scene of the film proper to do pretty much exactly the same thing in the Federation Council scene, it's masterful.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-04, 06:35 PM
"Traitor" is 75% great until the massive, massive amount of backtracking at the end - I was expecting a bit, but not that much.

How is it that in a series which basically features an armed Village People, Cobra Commander is still the gayest man in it?

Halfshell
2010-07-04, 06:44 PM
Half the character models would never make it to air nowadays, I'm sure. Black leather catsuit, pimp masks, Dr Mindbender, Serpentor's in no way phallic snake weapons, Tomax/Xamot... there's subtext in the show that rivals only Thundercats.

Can we look forward to an in-depth episode guide on Counter-X one day? Or do the BATs not fulfill the robot quota?

inflatable dalek
2010-07-04, 06:45 PM
Is it [Traitor] basically the same show as the Transformers episode?

It's actually surprising to think the G1 cartoon never did an alternate Universe story considering how ubiquitous they are. Certainly would have seemed more likely than GI Joe doing one.

EDIT: Doctor Mindbender is awesome in every way.

Halfshell
2010-07-04, 06:49 PM
It's actually surprising to think the G1 cartoon never did an alternate Universe story considering how ubiquitous they are. Certainly would have seemed more likely than GI Joe doing one.

Given all the continuity deviations, are we sure they didn't?

Cliffjumper
2010-07-04, 07:23 PM
Can we look forward to an in-depth episode guide on Counter-X one day? Or do the BATs not fulfill the robot quota?

It's looking possible. I like it, and therefore it's probably going to get on the site. There's not much mileage in toy reviews (especially as I've already mixed up everyone's guns [Flint has six] and the vehicles won't fit in the lightbox), so...

Nah, Traitor is better done than the TF episode - for a start there's considerable doubt as to whether Dusty's a traitor or not up until about 10 minutes from the end, whereas the TF one shows that Cliffjumper's being a dick pretty much from the start. There is one about Shipwreck copping off with a mermaid that's basically Sea Change with a few character ames changed, though.

I love the twins. So cheesy, but so random. Cobra's basically a big fetish ball. Talking of Mindbender, I didn't realise how 'late' some characters were - bearing down on the end of Season 1, there's no sign of him, Beach Head, Lifeline, Hawk... er... Iceberg. I know they had to have someone to introduce in Season 2, but this series badly needs more Beach Head. Beach Head's fantastic, though having only really remembered him being in the movie, I'm kinda disappointed to find out that he's apparently a wussy US Ranger with a wussy little beard. BOOOO! He should be from New Zealand, and a former SAS Vietnam vet. You can respect that. I actually bought the version that didn't have a balaclava-less head you could switch in just so as not to shatter the illusion.

Ohhh, here's the one where the Drednoks form a band. Oh my. Other hand, Lady Jaye in those leg-warmers you only ever see in Sarah Young films... Oh shit, Sheryl Formosa syndrome.

EDIT: Apparently, Clutch, Steeler and Grunt are only in the opening of the film, which doesn't explictly connect with the rest of the narrative - with Serpentor out of the way I'm not even 100% sure there's much to say when it happens, unless Beach Head or Iceberg have a really specific intro.

Halfshell
2010-07-04, 07:58 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure the intro sequence to the movie actually has anything to do with anything else. I mean if we take it literally, Duke's just killed the entire Cobra high command.

Ohhh, here's the one where the Drednoks form a band. Oh my.

I always tend to associate it with Megatron's Masterplan. Possibly because of the "look - we're not evil, we've got a nightclub!" scene.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-04, 08:22 PM
No Doctor Mindbender in the first season? Bah.

Mind, my love for him is entirely based on him getting the single best moment in the G2 crossover ("What happened to Michael Jackson's face?"). He may well be shite the rest of the time.

Halfshell
2010-07-04, 08:25 PM
No Doctor Mindbender in the first season? Bah.

I think that the Generic Eastern European Doktor's first appearance is in the Serpentor Mini, which kicks off season 2. Think Beach Head and Hawk first crop up in that, too, along with Sarge Slaughter.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-04, 08:26 PM
I could never work out what GI Joe were playing at in the opening. I mean, pretty much the entire ****ing team's there, with full air support - were they letting Cobra rough people up just to wait for the most dramatic moment to save the day? Were they just dicking with Cobra so they'd think they might actually win for a minute?

inflatable dalek
2010-07-04, 08:30 PM
and Hawn

I think you're confusing the popular 80's toy based action adventure cartoon GI Joe with the "kooky" comedy Sargent Benjamin.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-04, 08:42 PM
Sargent Benjamin

I think you're confusing the army rank of Sergeant with that twat off Channel 4.

Halfshell
2010-07-04, 09:02 PM
Pedantry Backfire is always funny. And proves why Dalek is the last person who should be correcting other people's typos.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-04, 09:08 PM
At the risk of jinxing the second part, the Springfield one is pretty impressive so far, and quite traumatic for this sort of thing, especially as it's a two-parter. There's a lot of filler in the first series, but when they get it right and do something a bit different it's coming off - they seem to be more ambitious for the multi-parters. Not sure how much of this was written by The Glut, though - maybe they wouldn't let him write for the thing?

EDIT: IMDB seems thrown by the AF thing, but it looks like he wrote one on, surprise surprise, ****ing dinosaurs. Twat.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-04, 09:28 PM
Oh, and as it;'s not likely to be released on DVD, this might tick a few boxes: -

http://rapid.org/board/showpost.php?p=1090277

Cliffjumper
2010-07-04, 10:59 PM
Two and a bit episodes into the Serpentor, Arise mini, aka "Doesn't Sgt. Slaughter rock and everyone else suck?". This is as new toy pushy as TF ever was, real Key to Vector Sigma stuff - suddenly everyone you knew and loved from last year is a piece of crap that can be thrown around by anyone new. Slaughter's cartoony superstrength is the real low - I can buy him going one-on-one with Nemesis Enforcer, but the big pile-ons here are just pathetic. I also love the way they completely sidestep that Duke's effectively demoted. And Roadblock's suddenly started rhyming. Oh dear, oh dear.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-05, 08:48 AM
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/TomPrankerd/th_fight1.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/TomPrankerd/?action=view&current=fight1.jpg) http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/TomPrankerd/th_fight2.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/TomPrankerd/?action=view&current=fight2.jpg)

Halfshell
2010-07-05, 09:55 AM
At the risk of jinxing the second part, the Springfield one is pretty impressive so far, and quite traumatic for this sort of thing, especially as it's a two-parter.

Right, my memories are getting crossed. Flint's Vacation is the stepford one I was thinking of. Possible it was on the same tape as the Springfield episodes.

There's a lot of filler in the first series, but when they get it right and do something a bit different it's coming off

Glancing through episode guides, I had no idea there was so much of it. Looks like we were quite lucky in that AF cut through most of the filler and delivered the quality eps. And Cold Slither.

Just looked up Glut on Wikipedia. "He was also responsible for creating some of the characters and much of the backstory for the Masters of the Universe toy line, which served as the basis for the popular TV show".

Suddenly vast chunks of MotU make so much more sense.

I love the way his wiki entry makes a big deal about his Empire Strikes Back novelisation being "national number 1 best seller for six weeks". Back in the days before home video when people bought film tie-ins because they liked the film and had no other way of re-experiencing it other than in print form. Reflects more on the popularity of the movie than his ability to retell somebody else's story.

Awh, Tomax and Xamot had different voice actors. I don't know why that surprises me... in a way it makes sense, but still.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-05, 10:52 AM
Glut's Wikipedia page is one of those ones that smacks of being self-penned, isn't it? Not sure if it's still like it, but Scott Ciencin (Hardwired) used to have a beaut as well. I think rule of thumb is that if you've got time to whitewash your own Wikipedia page you aren't a success at what you're doing...

Season 2 thus far is proving pretty terrible, nearly all the one-off quirky focus episode type things.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-05, 11:09 AM
Season 2 thus far is proving pretty terrible, nearly all the one-off quirky focus episode type things.

See, you've very nearly convinced me that the fancy boxset will be worth getting at some point (if nothing else there's a good chance it will have a decent resale value down the line if it's terrible). But if season 2 does wind up being crap overall in your eyes I might save my money after all. I'm so weak willed.

You know what makes the Action Force credits awesome? Wild Bill's little OK gesture and wink and he flies past. Though I'd always remembered the lyrics having them fighting for freedom over the sea as well as land and air.

In fairness to Glutt, the actual set up and world building for He-Man is great stuff with a lot of potential, it's just in the execution it pretty much falls flat (though if he wrote a good chunk of the episodes as well he's no one else to blame). To a certain extent that's true of Thundercats as well.

Halfshell
2010-07-05, 11:17 AM
Though I'd always remembered the lyrics having them fighting for freedom over the sea as well as land and air.

Until I dug out the videos over the weekend I was absolutely certain in my mind that the main difference between GI Joe and Action Force was that the Joes fought over land, sea and air. Whereas AF only had two of them.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-05, 11:25 AM
Which makes you wonder exactly what Shipwreak and those USS Flagg (and how did an army General get a navy boat named after him anyway?) people were up to all the time.

As for the high camp/innuendo factor of show, it says a lot that even the seemingly straight laced seeming Sargent Slaughter is quoting Rocky Horror in the intro to that Serpentor episode. Right after seemingly being tied up as part of some BDSM game.

EDIT: Oh yeah, good toy layout as well Cliffy.

Halfshell
2010-07-05, 11:37 AM
I remember that Manta Force were split over air/naval/terrain and it may have just injected into my brain the notion that "hang on, why don't Action Force do all three?"

Absolutely certain that I heard/saw a Joe slogan of "land, sea and air" somewhere, though. Possibly in one of the variant vids I posted earlier in the thread...

Cliffjumper
2010-07-05, 11:40 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Dwight_D_Eisenhower - there was also a few Royal Navy ones (HMS Iron Duke, Agamemnon, Duke of Wellington, Caesar, Hannibal, Albemarle etc.). Americans'll name aircraft carriers after anything, including Gerald ****ing Ford.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-05, 11:43 AM
Absolutely certain that I heard/saw a Joe slogan of "land, sea and air" somewhere, though. Possibly in one of the variant vids I posted earlier in the thread...


The version with clips from the movie has it (and as such the actual film one might as well). It's the only one of all the versions in this thread though and I'd have sworn on Hound's life the Action Force version was like that.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-06, 09:48 PM
Operation Dragonfly is so incredibly terrible I'm not bothering downloading the rest of Season 3. Cheesy dialogue, gaudy animation and designs, a shitload of Sgnt Slghtr, a nearly all-new voice cast (they're terrible), loads of new characters (they're terrible) and (aside from the weird continuity pick-up of Cobra Commander, very strange as they don't seem to have bothered with anything else) very little connection to the Sunbow stuff.

So, in summation:

1st mini: not bad per se, but very boring.
2nd mini: simple good fun - the right mix of brighter characters and not being shit.
1st season: mixed bag, a few very good episodes, a couple of very poor ones, a lot that didn't really stick in the mind. Wins through with the most likeable bunch of characters.
2nd season: starts off with a truly shameless five-part toy commercial (seriously, Rebirth has nothing on it) and loads of shit-eating kiddy-fiddler Sgnt Slghtr rubbish. Followed by 25 'quirky' focus episodes, though Slghtr aside (and Lifeline - I've no problem with him being a pacifist, but does he ahve to mention it every time he opens his mouth - "Sure, Beach-head, I'll sort that leg out, but if you were a pacifist like me it never would have happened, war is so stupid, I hope no-one notices my toy has a gun") the new characters aren't bad.
Movie: Tat, but old nostalgic tat.
3rd season: Like waking up one morning to find Hitler's come back to life and he's decided to start his Fourth Reich by shitting on your duvet.

Halfshell
2010-07-06, 09:52 PM
Try Resolute. It was written by Warren "I have no clue who any of these characters are and have license to do as I please" Eliis. Supposedly it's good. I've not seen it yet.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-06, 09:56 PM
Yeh, it's on the list... It'll either be excellent or completely pointless.

Halfshell
2010-07-06, 09:59 PM
I'm scared to watch it. In my mind, it's Nextwave with Joes. I don't want that illusion shattered.

tahukanuva
2010-07-07, 12:48 AM
Yeh, it's on the list... It'll either be excellent or completely pointless.

Mixture of both, really. Really fun to watch, but in retrospect it didn't much go anywhere. A string of really awesome individual scenes, I suppose. It was my first exposure to Ellis, and encouraged me to read Planetary, so I might have my view distorted by that.

Halfshell
2010-07-11, 03:20 PM
Funky finding:

http://www.toyloft.co.uk/cart/videos.htm

spensive though.

Intrigued by the last couple "GI Joe: The Action Force". Obvs the same tag they gave the comic towards the end, but I'd be interested to see the credits to the toon.

This, on the other hand, is just ****ing surreal:

HJ6fIuJFSzc

French credits. Different music, with an extended version of the AF credits.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-11, 09:54 PM
Nice find with the videos. I wonder who exactly you contact to try and get information about released episodes...

DrSpengler
2010-07-12, 01:06 AM
Try Resolute. It was written by Warren "I have no clue who any of these characters are and have license to do as I please" Eliis. Supposedly it's good. I've not seen it yet.

It's good and bad.

Animation is terrific and the action is choreographed really well.

Story is pretty cut and dry stuff, focusing heavy on the Snake-Eyes/Storm Shadow back story from the comics, albeit removing any of Storm Shadow's sympathetic aspects. The rest is a lot of gratuitous "OMG blood! And guts! And death! In a CARTOON!!?!?!"

The voice over cast is very, VERY limited. We're talking 3 or 4 people, here. Steve Blum and Charlie Adler play somewhere around 12 characters a piece. Grey Delisle does all the females.

That's not to say the voices are bad; many of them fit quite well. Charlie Adler's Cobra Commander is excellent and almost frightening in its way, though some of his dialogue can get wayyyy too meta (he gives a speech about how in the past he only pretended to act cowardly and incompetent and that THIS TIME there would be no power plays from his subordinates undercutting his authority, etc).

Though all the black characters sound like white people doing their best impressions of what they think black people sound like. It's hilarious, in its way.


Resolute was alright. Very pretty to look at, well-acted with the major roles, but a bit too juvenile here and there and not written particularly deeply.

Granted, I don't really have much of an opinion of Ellis since I haven't read a whole lot of his stuff. All that comes to mind at the moment was his Ghost Rider annual, which was fantastic, but I don't think I've read anything else.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-12, 06:38 AM
Nice find with the videos. I wonder who exactly you contact to try and get information about released episodes...


I'm actually surprised they released so many (plus presumably as with Transformers there were different releases of the same tapes over and over. I wonder what their Girl Who Loved Powerglide was?). Does a quick glance back up your theory it was mainly Flint focused episodes that got the treatment?

The episode I saw on video back in the 90's (a neighbour brought it round) had blue glowing crystals glowing underground and, confusingly to me at the time, the same music as Transformers.

This is where you say I'm misremembering an episode of Rainbow or something.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-12, 07:08 PM
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/TomPrankerd/WTF.jpg

Wildrider
2010-07-12, 08:33 PM
Girl Who Loved Powerglide was?). .

I distinctly remember an episode on a tape I owned where a bunch of Joes were sent into an alternate timeline in a dystopian land where Cobra had won and most of the Joes if not all of them were dead. It had a few characters of note in, Flint, Lady Jayne (Hawt!), but also Steeler, the tank driver who as far as I was aware had received little or no characterisation up to that point.

I remember he drove a Grizzly tank and had cool Cyclops esque helmet, which he would wear above his eyes and never use. Anyway the timeline jump occurred right in the middle of Steeler having some kind of post traumatic stress breakdown, lamenting on the futility of war and resolving to quit war and tanks.

*POOF*

Destro hiding in a tree sends everyone into an alternate timeline, needlesss to say Steeler takes this bad, especially when he reads on a database of Joes that about 90% of his buddies are K.I.A.

Long story short, turns out alternate timeline Steeler was the Baroness's lover, now also a double agent and Steeler finds redemption of sorts and decides he has something worth fighting for in this new future and stays for some Grizzly Tank sex while the others go back to their own time.

None of the Joes are particularyly upset and seem quite glad to be rid of Steeler's moaning.

Actually this is NOTHING like 'Powerglide...' but its the one episode that has stuck with and was actually quite depressing and harrowing as a child.

Although another stand out moment is when Flint miraculously stumbles across a run dwon old pumping station, handily selling the requisite nine motorbikes the Joes need to get around. Good old Flint, he ripped off that old codger too.

Halfshell
2010-07-12, 08:48 PM
The Altverse eps were "Worlds Without End" or something. As discussed earlier in this very thread. Or the other one. I can't recall.

Vivid memories of it, too. Cracking stuff.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-12, 08:50 PM
Yeh, the bit with the shop is daft, really - the chap doesn't ask quesions about the non-Cobra soldiers buying stuff, or apparently look at the pile of notes until Flint & co. are on their way. But that and the way they completely brush over how they skip into an alternate reality aren't big problems when the rest of it's pretty good - not only does Steeler basically have a breakdown, but it's pretty spooky still when he, Clutch and Grunt find their own bodies, if only partly because you aren't expecting that in the cartoon famous for animating parachutists from practically every exploding plane. The three do come from basically nowhere - the toyline had a year or so headstart on the cartoon, so only a few of the first series Joes actually get much to do in it (basically Hawk - who only appeared in his old man toy form from the second season on - and Scarlett until Lady Jaye came along). Even Stalker and Snake Eyes don't get much to do after the first miniseries (Storm Shadow's rival in the cartoon is Spirit).

Still not fluent enough to say which of those eps are "Flint" ones apart from the obvious (Worlds Without End and Flint's Vacation, plus Where the Reptiles Roam is a Wild Bill focus). As the season goes on a bit they seemed to stop using Flint and Duke as alternate team leaders and use more expansive plots that gave them both something to do anyway. I doubt they went mad synching it up, though - Duke, Hawk and so on were still in British shops after all, and by the time the Action Force comic went monthly even the homemade strips were basically G. I. Joe stories with a few names changed, a bias towards European locations (which wasn't unheard of in the American comic either) and some slightly desperate birthplaces in the profiles (Falcon is from Glastonbury, Rock 'n' Roll from Truro). There's no real reason for the cartoon to particularly follow the Marvel UK comics, after all - Transformers rarely did.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-16, 08:07 PM
Just been showing my Brother the Action Force credits, and my Mother has confirmed it is indeed Patrick Allen doing the voice over.

Strange to think the last voice we'd have heard (would still hear?) in the event of all out nuclear war would be the man who did the narration to Action Force.

Skyquake87
2010-07-16, 08:19 PM
I had the Rattler when I was young. i loved it. that and the Dragonfly copter were the only Action Force things i owned. I liked that you had to assemble most of it yourself. i don't remember the rattler being terribly fragile myself, but unlike my Playmobile and Corgi cars, i wasn't prone to launching it down the stairs. I liked Wild Weasel (was that the pilots name?) he was just awesome. this blood red dude sitting in this huge f**k off dark blue death machine! Brilliant.

Halfshell
2010-07-16, 08:22 PM
Just been showing my Brother the Action Force credits, and my Mother has confirmed it is indeed Patrick Allen doing the voice over.

Known to his enemies as... The Hawk.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-16, 08:23 PM
The Rattler's not so much fragile as has lots of eay to remove and lose parts.

Got a Dragonfly the other day too - not mad on that one. It looks great, but it's a pain in the arse getting anyone in and out of it - probably just my ropey example, but the canopy wobbles out of its' little runners very easily, and removing the pilots tends to bring the seat thing with it. The problem with most of the vehicles is they don't have screw-holes, which means taking them apart and rejigging things (in this case, working out exactly where the seat section is meant to sit and getting a good look at the runners for the canopy) is impossible unless you want to risk writing the thing off altogether.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-16, 08:26 PM
JStrange to think the last voice we'd have heard (would still hear?) in the event of all out nuclear war would be the man who did the narration to Action Force.

To be fair, he did narrate basically everything in the 1980s - Blackadder, Barratt homes adverts, Frankie singles... Probably even enough to forgive him for banking the money and doing all the links for E4, aka the Cnut Channel.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-16, 09:56 PM
Known to his enemies as... The Hawk.


Though for the British version Flint was in charge.

To be fair, he did narrate basically everything in the 1980s - Blackadder, Barratt homes adverts, Frankie singles... Probably even enough to forgive him for banking the money and doing all the links for E4, aka the Cnut Channel.

If only he'd been involved with one of the good Blackadder seasons. Still, no doubt being the voice of Action Force makes up for it.

[I should say by "Confirms" I mean my Mum went "Hey, that's the nuclear warning bloke, you know, that guy who did that thing. Pat something" "Patrick Allen?" "Yeah, that's him"]

Hound
2010-07-16, 11:25 PM
Got my GIJoe complete series boxset today.

Yeah I had the Rhino releases but this set has bonus features not available otherwise.

Yeah I'm a sucker. Still, got it a little dinged up from Amazon for less than $70US.

I hope my nephew doesn't mind getting the used sets I've had for years for his birthday this year.

Halfshell
2010-07-17, 12:16 AM
Got my GIJoe complete series boxset today.

Me too. Plastic seems a little bit "sheet of thin cardboard coated in that really tacky textured plastic that we make backpacks out of", but eh. It'll do.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-17, 06:18 AM
Still, even with the shity box you've still got your monies worth in quality Sunbow entertainment eh?

EDIT: Thinking about those GI Joe: The Action Force tapes I'll bet it's either a simple repackaging of previous releases with Action Force left intact, or just the original Joe episodes as by that point there'd presumably be no chance of Sunbow redoing the credits or re-dubbing the voices for shows that hadn't been done the first time round.

Was replacing the Battle version of Action Force with what we now know and love (?!) a couple of years after it started in America done in anticipation of the film, increasing the chances of it getting a cinema release over here by creating more familiarity with the characters? If I'm right on the dates work would have been well underway on the film but no one would have known it would wind up a straight to video flop when Action Force started.

Halfshell
2010-07-17, 09:52 AM
I think the GI Joe: TAF eps were ones that, by and large, hadn't been released as Action Force. I can't recall and I'm too lazy to check. I've got a notepad file somewhere with details of all the eps I've traced as being on UK VHS, but it's not on this PC.

Me too. Plastic seems a little bit "sheet of thin cardboard coated in that really tacky textured plastic that we make backpacks out of", but eh. It'll do.

Scratch this - it's painted cardboard. I can tell because it's scuffed at the corners already.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-17, 11:58 AM
I think the GI Joe: TAF eps were ones that, by and large, hadn't been released as Action Force. I can't recall and I'm too lazy to check. I've got a notepad file somewhere with details of all the eps I've traced as being on UK VHS, but it's not on this PC.

Of the tapes on that list in the link, there's one episode on the GIJ:TAF tapes that's on the earlier ones. Of course, that may not be a complete list of videos but unless an earlier Action Force branded release for the whole lot can turn up I'd be inclined to go with it being the original Yank versions.

I take it the DIC show never made it over here? Though I suppose with the film still doing the video rental rounds the opening mini series could have been edited together and promoted as a follow up movie.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-17, 12:04 PM
Was replacing the Battle version of Action Force with what we now know and love (?!) a couple of years after it started in America done in anticipation of the film, increasing the chances of it getting a cinema release over here by creating more familiarity with the characters? If I'm right on the dates work would have been well underway on the film but no one would have known it would wind up a straight to video flop when Action Force started.

Nope, much simpler than that. Fleetway's deal was with Palitoy, who reworked Action Force when they saw the sales GI Joe was scoring, and to make it less work (switching Scarlett, Clutch, Americanstalker, Steeler and so on to plausible real army troopers? No problem, can probably even sneak in Gung Ho and Snake Eyes as random freaks without making them look weird alongside the paratroopers... No, wait, the whole line's like that now). So they switched to simply repackaging GI Joe, and left Battle to hammer some sort of storyline out of the switch (amazingly, it seems they managed it).

However, when the chap who owned Palitoy died, the company was sold off to Hasbro (which is where they got the Action Man licence from), who had a deal with Marvel. Marvel kept things simple and ignored the Battle continuity. If the Movie was a factor, they wouldn't have bothered with a lot of the messing around they did do, and would've worked towards making it in continuity. As it was, when the film did roll around, the Action Force strip that tied into the movie was outside of continuity with the rest of the comic.

What's worth remembering is that there was nothing particularly to say the film would have been a success... Tie-in cartoons were still in their infancy and there was a lot to learn. What Hasbro learnt was that parents were happy for kids to watch for free or even to rent a tape for £2.50 for an hour's peace and quiet, but weren't too hot on going along for an hour and a half and basically being forced to watch with the kids for £whatever a head.

Nowadays toy tie-in films and the like tend to be straight to DVD when they're not shown on TV, with very rare exceptions (we're talking Pokemon level phenomenon), precisely from the lessons learnt at Hasbro's expense in 86/87. I genuinely can't think of a toy tie-in film (as opposed to a film with lots of toy tie-ins, like Star Wars or the current TF films) that's actually ever been a box office success, and in 1984 neither could anyone else, so the idea that they'd wrench the whole line to one side for it would be mad.

Halfshell
2010-07-17, 12:57 PM
The GI Joe movie didn't even get a cinema release in the US did it? Coming as it did off the [lack of?] success of the TF film. Or is that one of those apocryphal pieces of knowledge that was floating about ten years ago when people just passed off whatever their mate told them as fact and the only effect that TF:TM had on GI Joe and The Silurians was that line about Duke being okay?

Cliffjumper
2010-07-17, 01:25 PM
From what I gather, GI Joe was going to come out first, but hit some major problems. It was delayed, and in the meantime TF:TM (and the My Little Pony movie) bombed and Hasbro pulled whatever they could out of the GI Joe Movie, though by this stage that was basically the score (which worked for the thing... I'll take a fairly well utilised set of respectable library cues over that nonce Bush anyday) and the cinema run. I've read speculation that the rest of Falcon's unit were going to be all-star rather than Don Johnson and Sunbow jobbers, but nothing solid.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-17, 03:38 PM
I'd assume if they were earmarked for "Names" it would have been at the "Man who talks fastest" and "Bloke from Heart to Heart" evel rather than the dizzy heights of Johnson and The Penguin.


However, when the chap who owned Palitoy died, the company was sold off to Hasbro (which is where they got the Action Man licence from), who had a deal with Marvel.

Now I didn't know Hasbro didn't acquire the Action Man rights until later even though it was always based on their toys. Though it makes sense, similar to how Bandai may own the Machine Robo toys but don't have any rights to the Gobots fiction, right?

Marvel kept things simple and ignored the Battle continuity. If the Movie was a factor, they wouldn't have bothered with a lot of the messing around they did do, and would've worked towards making it in continuity. As it was, when the film did roll around, the Action Force strip that tied into the movie was outside of continuity with the rest of the comic.

I knew they'd done a strip that acted as a prequel to the film (something about the BET wasn't it?) but didn't realise it had been presented as specifically out of continuity rather than a make do and try and have it fit thing. It was a few years after the actual film though wasn't it?

What's worth remembering is that there was nothing particularly to say the film would have been a success... Tie-in cartoons were still in their infancy and there was a lot to learn. What Hasbro learnt was that parents were happy for kids to watch for free or even to rent a tape for £2.50 for an hour's peace and quiet, but weren't too hot on going along for an hour and a half and basically being forced to watch with the kids for £whatever a head.

Yep, part of the fun I get from both the TF and Joe films (no idea bout the Pony one) is that there's no ground rules established for this sort of thing yet and everyone involved has clearly gone a bit mad with the newfound freedoms. I can't off the top of my head, think of any earlier proper theatrical films directly tied into an ongoing cartoon (possibly that He-Man She-Ra thing? The DVD I watched mentioned it getting a premier screening at a cinema but I'm not sure that wasn't a one off special thing with it being more a TV/Video thing). Hell, films based around live action TV shows weren't so common at the time.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-17, 03:59 PM
Now I didn't know Hasbro didn't acquire the Action Man rights until later even though it was always based on their toys. Though it makes sense, similar to how Bandai may own the Machine Robo toys but don't have any rights to the Gobots fiction, right?

At the time, yeh - Action Man as a toyline actually completely dusted the original GI Joe (the original production of Action Man lasted almost until Palitoy folded - Hasbro UK bought them largely for the facilites rather than the brands). The American version's sales were hit by the Vietnam backblast, hence some of the superhero-influenced stuff like Mike Power. It also helped that the UK stuff didn't push the "patriotic hero" stuff quite so much, meaning lots of mileage out of German uniforms and the like, and didn't make the guy a character either - meaning (finaces permitted, Action Man was a rich kid's toyline even at the time) there was nothing to stop you owning a dozen of them.

I knew they'd done a strip that acted as a prequel to the film (something about the BET wasn't it?) but didn't realise it had been presented as specifically out of continuity rather than a make do and try and have it fit thing. It was a few years after the actual film though wasn't it? May '88, which probably more or less ties into the UK VHS release. It features the characters largely in cartoon mode, which would require some rejigging considering what was happening in both comics at the time (IIRC in the main comic, which was also being printed in the UK alongside the new material, Serpentor's arrival threw Cobra basically into civil war, and there was never the weirdness of Cobra Commander and Destro working as his subordinates.

Hell, films based around live action TV shows weren't so common at the time.Nope, more imagination kicking around at the time - Star Trek had done well, but no-one else was really jumping the bandwagon. It was more of a British phenomenon at the time, mainly for sitcoms, and resulting in a fair few of the worst films ever made (including the astoundingly daft idea of Rising Damp without Richard Beckinsale).

inflatable dalek
2010-07-17, 04:54 PM
Nope, more imagination kicking around at the time - Star Trek had done well, but no-one else was really jumping the bandwagon. It was more of a British phenomenon at the time, mainly for sitcoms, and resulting in a fair few of the worst films ever made (including the astoundingly daft idea of Rising Damp without Richard Beckinsale).

To a certain extent it made sense for British TV anyway, without any equivalent to the American syndication market even one of the shows on the BBC's repeat till Doomsday list would probably only be shown again once a year at most, with no other way for people to see it. Sticking the script of a few shows together and making a film out of it (which is what the bulk of them are, I think the Steptoe and Are You Being Served films have original plots but the rest tend to be a "How it all began" retelling). Which is probably why so many of them are that bad, the pacing and gag rate of a half hour show doesn't translate well when just dumped in a Movie.

Other than Star Trek and Batman I'm struggling to think of an in-continuity film based on an American live action show that pre-dates the TF film.

If memory serves, the Joe people were pissed at having to change Duke's "Death" because of Transformers flopping, understandable really as it was their idea first.

Halfshell
2010-07-17, 05:03 PM
Other than Star Trek and Batman I'm struggling to think of an in-continuity film based on an American live action show that pre-dates the TF film.

My approximately two minutes of "in depth" research turns up Maxwell Smart and The Nude Bomb, but that's debatable as half the characters were either recast or not in it at all without mention.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-17, 05:08 PM
I think the fact that Star Trek, though a huge finincial success, was an incredibly tortuous production with an insanely huge budget probably put people off for a long time. Indeed, though remakes of pretty much any TV show that was popular a decade or more ago are fairly common these days theatrical films using the original cast are still incredibly rare. X-Files, Serenity (an extraordinary case that one) and the ever constant Trek films are the only main ones I can think of. Most of which were flops on at least underperformed on their original release, indeed they only reversed the dwindling Trek fortunes by effectively coming up with a conceit that let them do a remake that the fans could accept as a continuation.

Oh, hang on a sec, Sex and the City is probably the most successful recent example isn't it?

Halfshell
2010-07-17, 05:13 PM
Sex & The City and The Simpsons are probably the best recent examples.

In the Loop has debatable canonicity.

Oh, and pre-TF there's also the desperate big-screen money-grabbing re-edit of the Battlestar Galactica openers.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-17, 05:18 PM
Sex & The City and The Simpsons are probably the best recent examples.

I'd forgotten about The Simpsons (in relation to cartoon based films rather than live action of course, on the same note South Park is great).


Oh, and pre-TF there's also the desperate big-screen money-grabbing re-edit of the Battlestar Galactica openers.

The UK/Europe got a lot of that, the pilots for Buck Rogers and The Incredible Hulk were released as films over here as well IIRC.

I think another reason for it being off putting is that you inherit a cast with diva ego's even before you've had a hit film. Look at Shatner and Nimoy basically improvising huge chunks of the first Trek film.

Halfshell
2010-07-17, 05:22 PM
I'd forgotten about The Simpsons (in relation to cartoon based films rather than live action of course, on the same note South Park is great).

You mean you haven't seen the live action Simpsons movie?

Sunstreaker2
2010-07-18, 01:42 AM
My only big problem with GI Joe: The Rise of Cobra is that they managed to entirely screw up the Baroness.

She's a simple character. Hot, smart, has an accent, hangs out with Destro. How do you screw that up?

LKW
2010-07-18, 03:07 AM
I haven't seen the G.I. Joe live action movie yet (didn't look like I'd want to spend the money), but I can confirm that the MOTU cartoon - "He-Man and She-Ra in the Secret of the Sword" or whatever - did make it to theaters, as I saw it in one. Don't think it made all that much of a splash, though it didn't stop them from rolling out the She-Ra cartoon, but it definitely did have some sort of a release.

Speaking of Duke's non-death - which I've also heard was nixed in the aftermath of the TF:TM debacle: does anybody know if Ron Friedman just had it in for Michael Bell? Not only does he try to make his Duke character the one Joe fatality, but he has Prowl executed by one shot - from Scavenger? Ironhide and Rachet take a barrage from Megatron and everybody else - and Prowl's punctured through with one shot? From that little pistol? (Maybe the similar Prowl/Duke voices bugged his ears?)

inflatable dalek
2010-07-18, 03:51 AM
You mean you haven't seen the live action Simpsons movie?

No, but I've read the Stephen King novelization (cunningly called Under the Dome to fool people. When your 80 thousand page very serious book has the same basic plot as a comedy cartoon film it's time to stop).


She's a simple character. Hot, smart, has an accent, hangs out with Destro. How do you screw that up?


Errr, she was hot (come on, even if you hated the film Sienna Miller is very nice), she had an "accent", despite being a brainwashed stooge she still managed to be smart and she hung out with Destro for pretty much the whole film. So, by your criteria, how did they screw her up?

inflatable dalek
2010-07-18, 10:40 AM
So I remembered the DVD of the 80's film I've got has an episode of the cartoon on it (Cobra's Creatures) so I watched it. Typical fluff, but good fun. I like how Doctor Lucifer's machine can control any animal in the world... as long as it's got a label on his control panel. Britain being overrun by Rhino's was nice as well (and as we didn't get a scene of the UK returning to normal as we do with the other places under siege does that mean we're still under rhino rule?).

The odd thing though was that Chris Latta, though still instantly recognisable, was putting effort into speaking more slowly and with more ssssss's than usual, but in the film itself he's just Starscream.

It uses the "Cobra and Destro" credits as well, but that's hardly conclusive as it's clearly not the show as broadcast, the end credits (the music for which is ****ing awful) don't have any actual credits, completely textless.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-18, 02:46 PM
The odd thing though was that Chris Latta, though still instantly recognisable, was putting effort into speaking more slowly and with more ssssss's than usual, but in the film itself he's just Starscream.

Chris Latta is shit, that's why. His screechy voice "acting" is a large factor in the cartoon's ongoing quest to undermine Cobra Commander as any sort of threat, and gels beautifully with Sunbow's plan to make the character look as inept as possible (at least Megatron gave the impression of being in charge through slapping underlings about; with Cobra Commander you've no idea why).

Halfshell
2010-07-18, 04:53 PM
I always assumed Cobra Commander had naked pictures of everybody, or something. It was the only thing that made sense.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-18, 05:35 PM
Thing was, there were chances for them to sort it out... There's a highly imaginative one where Flint, Lady Jaye, the Baroness and the Commander are kidnapped by a copyright-friendly version of Arcade and forced to work together to escape. Now, there's a plot that'd allow them to make him a little bit more awesome without straying out of the good-guys-always-win sandbox. But no, he's so pathetic and rubbish at everything (everything - walking in a straight line, working out the basics of what the **** is going on, bitching with Flint, everything) that the Baroness just sides with Flint. Argh.

Just finished reading the first Devil's Due run... It's... interesting. Lots of nice bits of characterisation and a good blend of guys who were awesome in the comic and guys who were awesome in the cartoon (was Beach Head even in the American comic?), but I'm not sure how many of the "OMFG! Serpentor!" "OMFG, Red Shadows!" bits will actually stand up on second reading, a lot of it may have worked because of my refusal to check back and see if it actually made any sense.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-18, 06:40 PM
It says a lot Cobra Commander wound up getting usurped by a guy made up out of dead people.

I assume you're not going to be masochistic enough to bother with the modern TF/Joe crossovers, but will you be trying the IDW stuff?

Hound
2010-07-18, 06:53 PM
Have you read Special Missions? (I mean the Marvel comic)

The IDW stuff is alright, though the Cobra mini and series I've liked a whole lot. Origins is sometimes good. The regular has had a few good issues I suppose too.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-18, 07:06 PM
Have you read Special Missions? (I mean the Marvel comic)


Mmm, read the first couple (keep forgetting to go bck and finish), very impressed - the slimmed down cast and focused storylines remind me a lot of the UK Marvel stuff. A lot of DD's Front Line works for the same reason (there's a great one with Chuckles as a deep cover agent, which didn't really come to anything as he died pointlessly in a big epic)... DD's biggest fault, though, is bigging up their own characters ("Hey, Kakamura... we'll put the boot into Ninja Force for a minute, but if you're okay with Snake-Eyes you're okay with us, right readers?"... the raver slut Drednok is pretty annoying too).

Not onto IDW yet, DD's America's Elite and Reloaded are ahead of it in the queue at the moment.

Did re-read the various crossovers, curious as to whether knowing/liking GI Joe any more would change them, and it just meant I was annoyed by both sets of characters getting railroaded this time (there seemed to be a lot of Brad Mick style quoting of the '87 film too). The Dreamwave one is still the best by far for imagination alone, even if it does stop making sense after about the midway point.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-19, 06:37 AM
Of the recent ones I still prefer the last two Duvil's Due ones, though Art of War is better than Black Horizon (you can tell Wildman's heart isn't in it, which is actually more annoying than Ng doing all thumbs double act with Milne) they both have a nice batshit insane quality to them, and SerpentO.R. is actually very well done. AoW is an issue too long though.

The Dreamwave crossover looks great, and has some lovely ideas (love the way Duke gets killed off so casually) but suffers from the piss poor ending, the fact that despite the different trappings it pretty much the same plot as the concurrent Devil's Due series (and indeed the then still fresh first Dreamwave mini) and that the art at times doesn't help with telling who's who.

Ancient Relics pretty much pisses all over them though. [To be whorish and dirty for a second if I may, my full thoughts on all the crossovers can be found on the Webb Page].

Cliffjumper
2010-07-19, 11:50 AM
Busted my O-ring virginity - that's one BAT back in action.

EDIT: ****, no it's not, I forgot the crotch piece.

EDIT 2: There we are. It's actually quite simple to do once you engage common sense, the way the band basically holds it all together while you screw is rather neat. I do like fixing knackered old toys, it's like there's one more BAT figure in the world, thanks to me :)

Halfshell
2010-07-19, 11:52 AM
Busted my O-ring virginity

Is that your way of saying you found an elastic band that fits?

Cliffjumper
2010-07-19, 12:27 PM
Is that your way of saying you found an elastic band that fits?

Yeh. Action Master Prime's.

(to be fair, he's got no arms).

Halfshell
2010-07-19, 12:38 PM
One of the things I always liked about the figures were that they were easy to fix, if you had the parts to cannibalise. All you need is a crosshead screwdriver and a little bit of patience to stop the band contracting too quickly and everything flying everywhere.

Going back to the Cobra Commander thing - to their credit, one of the driving plots of the movie was everybody basically just admitting that he's shit.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-19, 01:22 PM
Nice for collecting, too - I got a second Airtight with very loose elbows. Between that one and my one with loose knees, I now have one nice, tight version, with less paint wear on the head too. I read somewhere the bands are a fairly common type used in plumbing, and might have to try and find some next time I'm in town - it'll certainly add options for buying figures.

Everyone noticing he's shit in the film (to be fair, it's the reason they Frankenstein up a Serpentor) is slightly undermined by the Starscream-esque sarcasm not being rumbled before everyone follows the orders of the man they've just been calling inept. Not that the four or five of them running around with pistols (notice how Storm Shadow, who'd have been a handy man to have against Pythona, disappears) when there are presumably legions of troopers to do the job was that smart anyway... Oh no, a gay dentist with a pistol, that'll stop 'em.


Also got the Tactical Battle Platform (http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/85/battleplatform/) today. Cocking awesome, it is. Plus no stickers on it and a neutral colour scheme means Cobra have nabbed it. Also got a HAVOC, by god is that a weird thing.

Halfshell
2010-07-19, 01:30 PM
"We are the Cobra Silurians, and we are here because Cobra Commander is shit! We told you to make Serpentor because Cobra Commander was shit. But still you follow him, so we are here to turn him into a snake!"

That's a special kind of awesome.

The standard build of the Joe figures also meant that when inner thighs broke I ended up with a few characters with multicoloured legs. Which was preferable. I mean it's not like you can use a junked Bomb-Burst to repair Swoop.

I seem to recall being quite gutted when my Serpentor toy died, as iirc his silly snake cowl thing meant I couldn't unscrew his back without destroying it totally. :/

Cliffjumper
2010-07-19, 04:50 PM
Yeh, similar problem with Zandar here - the band is perishing fast, but accoridng to YoJoe he's sealed because of the colour-chaning paint. Bugger.


Regarding the film, I could never work out why Cobra-La went to great lengths to talk Cobra around, and then basically ignored them - if they were so useless that Golobulus had to plant something in Mindbender's head, why did they need them anyway? Even using the Drednoks to bust out Serpentor seems pretty unnecessary when you see the shit they have for getting the BET.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-19, 07:27 PM
In the second season of the cartoon was Serpentor actually any less shit than Cobra Commander? Mind, he wins points for the awesome voice. They should have just put Dr. Mindbender in charge.

One thing I was also reminded by watching the start of the film to check I wasn't imagining CC's voice being different: What the hell nationality is cartoon Destro supposed to be?

Cliffjumper
2010-07-19, 08:24 PM
He's not, particularly. I think he's referenced as European, but that's it. The Marvel comics skirted around his nationality a bit as well, IIRC - he's from a Scottish family and maintains a Scottish castle, but I don't remember him being particularly Scottish - he might be like one of those Americans who uses a great-great grandfather who knobbed an Irish whore fresh from the boat as a reason to go out and get pissed on "Saint Pat's". But with a castle.

When Hama did get onto a British regular - Big Ben (sadly not the one with no time for crime... well, actually, it might be, but in camos) - the dialogue's very "Cor blimey, the Queen's fish and chips by crikey!", which leaves me to think that if Destro was overtly Scottish Hama would have indulged himself in a few "See you Jimmy"-style gems. I seem to remember some of his castle staff were, actually. Can you imagine the Glasgow kiss you could land on someone if you had a steel mask on?

The cartoon's actually slightly less nationalistic than the cartoon - there are certainly few episodes where heroic characters berate civilians for owning German cars, for instance, and the majority of the voices are actually fairly neutral, with only the odd one like the Baroness or Wild Bill really playing up an accent. Oh, and Iceberg's girlfriend, Passthedutchyonthelefthandsidemon.

Serpentor isn't much of an improvement on Cobra Commander strategy-wise, but at least was able to beat anyone else from Cobra until they agreed. If Cobra Commander tried to slap, say, Xamot into line he'd have got his faceplate kicked in...

Halfshell
2010-07-19, 10:05 PM
It's funny how THIS I COMMAND is the catchphrase of the person who outranks the Commander.

I AM COBRA COMMANDER AND THIS I REQUEST POLITELY! or you won't get paid... not that you should get paid anyway, seeing as you always botch the job but you're all far too scary for me to fire you... why did I hire insane ninja assassins and people who have full-facial metal helmets?

Why do I have it in my mind that Clan Zartan and the Dreadknocks were Australian?

Cliffjumper
2010-07-20, 03:49 AM
One of them was (either Torch or Ripper... the other one was something like that)... Two were Hilarious British (Buzzer and Zarana).

inflatable dalek
2010-07-20, 06:05 AM
One of them was (either Torch or Ripper... the other one was something like that)... Two were Hilarious British (Buzzer and Zarana).


Are you sure the one was Australian and it wasn't just a really bad attempt at a Brit accent?

Halfshell
2010-07-20, 03:11 PM
Aha. Right, here we go.

Torch - New South Wales
http://www.yojoe.com/filecard/85/torch.shtml

Ripper - Tasmania
http://www.yojoe.com/filecard/85/ripper.shtml

Buzzer - Cambridge, but absconded to Australia
http://www.yojoe.com/filecard/85/buzzer.shtml

Sorted then.
[EDIT] Oh, hang on.

Monkeywrench - Actual North Wales, met the others Daaahn Under
http://www.yojoe.com/filecard/86/monkeywrench.shtml

Thrasher's filecard says bugger all of any use. Was it the Serpentor mini or the Movie where they introduced Thrasher and Monkeywrench? Joepedia seems to be utterly useless.

Hound
2010-07-20, 03:19 PM
I'm pretty sure the filecards say at least one of them is Australian.

Edit: Torch and Ripper
http://www.yojoe.com/filecard/85/

Halfshell
2010-07-20, 03:22 PM
Sorry Houndy. :/

Actually, Joepedia contains one useful bit of information. Thrasher was born in Belgium. Slightly desperate, innit?

Hound
2010-07-20, 03:25 PM
I'd have been first, if I'd not been playing Reversi at the same time...

Hound
2010-07-20, 03:28 PM
Thrasher's filecard says bugger all of any use. Was it the Serpentor mini or the Movie where they introduced Thrasher and Monkeywrench? Joepedia seems to be utterly useless.It's before the movie, probably the Serpentor mini. Been a while since I watched it. I'm 5 DVDs into the series though. I'll get there eventually and I finally get to watch the last half of season 2! Yay... maybe.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-20, 03:42 PM
I wouldn't hurry if I was you... There's a cute one revolving around Zarana and Mainframe, but most of the second series is pretty terrible. Lots of focuses on new figures, which are entirely dependant on their wild quirks (as with TF, Joe seems to have loaded anyone from about 1986 onwards with massive personality disorders).

Er, Thrasher and Monkeywrench join in the Serpentor mini, IIRC. Zartan is holding auditions for a new Drednok (no, seriously), and Monkeywrench lands the job, but the auditions are busted by GI Joe (not anyone who's in season 1, you understand, but Sergeant "Wow, the Sarge sure is awesome" Slaughter and a couple of people who go "Wow, the Sarge sure is awesome"). Thrasher heads back and saves the Drednoks (who are largely shit now, featuring only one new figure, Monkeywrench) in the Brand New And Much Better Than That Hiss Tank You've Got Thunder Machine, Avaliable In Shops Now.

It's difficult to emphasise a) just how toy-driven the second series is (imagine a whole series of The Rebirth) and b) just how much of a cockmuncher Sergeant Slaughter is. He's tolerable in isolated film viewings because he's so what-the-****, but watch a few episodes of everyone sticking their tongues up his anus (and that voice...) and it grates somewhat.

Halfshell
2010-07-20, 03:51 PM
Er, Thrasher and Monkeywrench join in the Serpentor mini, IIRC. Zartan is holding auditions for a new Drednok (no, seriously), and Monkeywrench lands the job, but the auditions are busted by GI Joe (not anyone who's in season 1, you understand, but Sergeant "Wow, the Sarge sure is awesome" Slaughter and a couple of people who go "Wow, the Sarge sure is awesome"). Thrasher heads back and saves the Drednoks (who are largely shit now, featuring only one new figure, Monkeywrench) in the Brand New And Much Better Than That Hiss Tank You've Got Thunder Machine, Avaliable In Shops Now.

Ah yes. I remember now. I had the basics down (the auditions, Monkeywrench, Thrasher being a twat), but couldn't remember when it was. I could have worked it out on the grounds that there's no room in the narrative during the movie, but that doesn't really stand up as a rationale in this sort of thing.

I had no idea until recently that there were only two seasons. Probably due to the fragmented UK releases. My only contact with Zandar and Zarana was having the former's toy and their brief cameos in Serpentor and The Movie. For all I know, Arise Serpentor was the EPIC CLIMAX to season 3. Instead no, it's "hello second season, **** off anybody who was already on sale."

Cliffjumper
2010-07-20, 04:08 PM
Always liked Zandar for some reason - might have been the awesome voice. Can't have been much else, TBH. The second series was a big disappointment, TBH, as the first one wasn't actually too "look at this toy!!!! BUY THIS TOY!!!" - most of it seems to be covered in the second mini, and the first full season just sort of gets on with it. Plus most of the new characters are pretty awful - Hawk's incredibly bland, Slaughter's a cock, Lifeline's a pain in the arse (take a shot every time he mentions he's a pacifist, whether anyone asks or not) and so on. It's like Season 3 of Transformers, but without the excuse of a 20-year gap or the odd bone thrown to the likes of Perceptor and Blaster.

The minis confuse things as far as seasons go - the first one is sort-of-season-1 but with only five episodes, whereas the second mini and the actual first season feel more like a second season with all the basics already covered.

Hound
2010-07-20, 04:08 PM
But Beachhead is in season 2. I love Beachhead...

Cliffjumper
2010-07-20, 05:23 PM
Yeh, he is awesome when he's a) given something to do and b) that something isn't going "Wow, Sarge is so awesome". Iceberg's alright too.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-20, 07:43 PM
Joepedia seems to be utterly useless.

I was surprised how poor the web resources are compared to the ones for Transformers, I guess Joe fans have more in the way of social lives or something. I was able to pick up the And Now You Know book dirt cheap from the Forbiden Planet shop in Manchester, it might be worth keeping an eye out in other branches as (unlike the publishers TF book which has been pretty much surplanted by the internet) it's still the best fiction guide I've seen.

Was anyone else surprised when they found out Sgt Slaughter wasn't just a new celebrity voice character for the film?

Halfshell
2010-07-20, 07:51 PM
Was anyone else surprised when they found out Sgt Slaughter wasn't just a new celebrity voice character for the film?

No. Because I saw the Serpentor mini before the Movie.

And as far as web resources go, YoJoe.com is staggeringly comprehensive from what I've seen (certainly on a par with TFU.info if not ahead). The regular Wiki articles seem quite decent too... it's just the specialist Wiki doesn't seem to attract any interest at all from people willing to actually put a shift in.

Maybe there's something political going on there... wouldn't be the first time.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-20, 07:52 PM
Joepedia is pretty ****ing lame, yep - keep getting vaguely tempted to sign up and edit, but can't really be ****ed. Weirdly, it's very comprehensive for Action Force, though... I think it might be that the toys are so well covered at YoJoe (which is everything TFU.info wishes it was...) that it'd seem a bit redundant. The fiction is largely terrible, which probably doesn't help. On the other hand, when I have read Joepedia, I've not yet wanted to reach into the internet and strangle the thing, a nice chance from when you're just trying to look something up on the TFWalki and have to pick through shit jokes and anal pedantry to find an answer to a simple question.

That said, what they do do which I like is the simple summaries of each year, which is a great little primer for getting a feel for the line.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-20, 08:09 PM
I've only really looked at the comic stuff at Yo Joe, didn't realise the toy stuff was more comprehensively done.

Is there any truth in the story that, as well as Slaughter, they tried to make "Rocky" a Joe as well?

Cliffjumper
2010-07-20, 08:20 PM
Yup - only got stopped at the last minute. His profile actually made the Order of Battle series (GI Joe's version of the Marvel/TF Universe books) and a retraction was put in the final issue, so that's about as last minute as you can get. Big Boa was going to be his opposite number. First reading the comic I thought this was some insanely elaborate in-joke, but no - http://www.yojoe.com/archive/unproduced/rocky.shtml

What's interesting is that his functions were basically covered by Slaughter a year or so later.

EDIT: Hmm, looks like we nearly had another Spasma - http://www.yojoe.com/archive/unproduced/spasma2.shtml

inflatable dalek
2010-07-20, 08:25 PM
Weird, you'd have thought Rambo would have been the obvious Stallone choice. Though I suppose with his ability to single handedly kill the entire Russian army the other Joe's would have been even more redundant than they were made by Slaughter's pile up skills.

EDIT: WTF is that unreleased one supposed to be?

Cliffjumper
2010-07-20, 08:37 PM
I'd guess it's that Rambo's just a hardcore Vietnam vet who's good with a gun - that'd overlap with basically every single GI Joe character, so they could get Rambo for free really. From about 1986 the line was trying to diversify, having already hoovered up the 'maverick soldier' sections of the market, which is why there are then ninjas, martial arts experts (Quick-Kick is basically The Karate Kid all grown up as far as looks go), spacemen (which is where Spasma comes in - the Star Brigade line featured everyone in spacesuits, plus a couple of alien bad guys - it's not much of a coincidence the series was cancelled soon after), cyborgs, eco-freaks, bikers and so on... So Rocky would give them another diverse chap who'd perhaps sell to someone who wasn't into toy soldiers particularly.

Hound
2010-07-20, 08:58 PM
No one's going to mention William "The Refrigerator" Perry?

Man, the 1985 Chicago Bears, those were the days...

Cliffjumper
2010-07-20, 09:38 PM
It'll be the lack of homosexual rugby fans in the topic.

Rewatching season 2, it's actually quite fun in a retarded sort of way as it goes on. Right now, Destro's doing standup on a Cobrathon hosted by the Baroness in a dress that's really rather something.

Halfshell
2010-07-20, 09:54 PM
Just watched the MASS Device, which I'd never seen before. Cheap and cheerful fun. Very Sunbow, with a couple of "er... yeah... what?" moments*, but overall quite enjoyable.

Don't think I've ever been exposed to Major Bludd before. He raises two questions - first is why somebody with only one eye is allowed to pilot an aircraft, the second is what the hell his accent is meant to be.

The commercial bumpers could end up being seriously annoying. Hound - you're further along in the set, are they all the way through or do they stop after a while?

* - most specifically the whole "Snake Eyes gets saved by Blind Hagrid" sequence. I thought maybe it was Zartan, which would then explain the booby trapped canister, though seemingly not. Points for Cover Girl knowing Timber's name though, especially as a plot point mere moments before was Snake Eyes not telling anybody because he's mute. But there we go.

Decent opener. More non-sequitur "straight in at the deep end" than More Than Meets The Eye, with less standing about introducing characters and more people shooting at each other without hitting the target. Yay. And with Bludd and the Baroness being so good at disguises, I wonder why they needed Zartan involved. Good to see Cobra Commander was completely ****ing useless right from the get-go though, not just randomly depowered as newer toys came along. Consistency. Good to see.

[EDIT] Just bought 25th Anniversary Cobra Commander. Resisting the urge to just buy everything... will team him with Masterpiece Megatron as the founding members of my Evil League of Rubishness (Evil League of Evil is already taken, see). Future entrants may include Skeletor and either Mr Sinister or Apocalypse.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-21, 04:42 AM
The faceplate version? Careful, they're addictive... :o

Bludd's an odd one - from what I can gather, Hasbro were very slow to cotton onto the fact Cobra figures would actually sell (Cobra Commander was initially mail-in only), so by the time of the MASS device there were only something like 4 or 5 'named' Cobras out there, thus guaranteeing Bludd some early exposure. As soon as characters with more interesting abilities than "has a gun" pop up, he basically disappears - by season 1 he's barely in it. I think he's meant to be Australian, but it ends up being typical Sunbow Limey.

Incidentally, that's about the most you'll see of Snake-Eyes in the cartoon too... Between the guy being the star of the Marvel comic and really the line in general, it was quite a surprise to see he's barely in the cartoon - I always thought he got sledged a bit with his pathetic showing in the film, but in context of the series it's one of his crowning moments to even be picked for Roadblock's team of guys who were quite good for the last couple of series but are now going to get their arses handed to them to show how awesome Cobra-La are.

Hound
2010-07-21, 05:20 AM
The commercial bumpers could end up being seriously annoying. Hound - you're further along in the set, are they all the way through or do they stop after a while?So far they're all the way through.

I really hate them. It's not like you can fast forward through them either unless you've got super reflexes or something and don't mind doing it 2 times every single episode. Aargh!

Yeah, cartoon Cobra Commander and Snake-Eyes are a lot of the reason I really prefer the Marvel comic. It's a shame none of the writers at Sunbow had enough imagination to suggest that stories might be a whole lot more interesting if the villains weren't a squad of complete ****-ups. I really do think that both GIJoe and Transformers would have been a whole lot better if someone had.

Seriously, doesn't it make your heroes seem more... heroic if they are managing to defeat those who pose a genuine threat rather than a pack of retards*?

At least some of the secondary bad guys like Storm Shadow and Firefly are mostly kind of cool.

Cliffy, are you getting the Crimson Twins or did you already?

*I really shouldn't say "retards" it not fair to the retarded...

inflatable dalek
2010-07-21, 06:35 AM
Incidentally, that's about the most you'll see of Snake-Eyes in the cartoon too...


Snake Eye's did share a barking bit in the episode on the film DVD, where he and Spirit manage to convey a complicated plan to their pets and get them to act it out. Said plan involved Timber and the eagle pretending to be brainwashed and bringing their owners in under guard. This completely fools the Cobra troops (or I suppose I should say The Enemy. Great he got his name in the theme tune) who give them the run of the castle even though not only should they know no one use the High Freak on these animals but the machine doesn't even seem to have pictures of eagles or wolves on it.

If you're rewatching so soon I take it some sort of cunning writing project is underway?

Halfshell
2010-07-21, 08:06 AM
The faceplate version? Careful, they're addictive... :o

Yep to the faceplate. The hood's one of those things that's kinda cool in theory, but whenever I look at the toy I just think "er... yeah, I'll pass ta." The immediate compulsion is "buy everything in sight" but all the different versions mean I can't quite decide which ones look best.

Anniversary wise, I may end up getting Destro, Baroness, the Twins and Zartan. Maybe Storm Shadow. Joe-wise, the only one that interests me is Snake Eyes. Now, if they'd done a 25th pack that contained Lightfoot, Spearhead, Hardball, Shockwave, Repeater and Fast Draw, then I'd be alllll over it. But there we go.

Given the TFs I just bought, I can't afford to go anywhere near completist on another line for quite a while. :/

Bludd's an odd one - from what I can gather, Hasbro were very slow to cotton onto the fact Cobra figures would actually sell (Cobra Commander was initially mail-in only), so by the time of the MASS device there were only something like 4 or 5 'named' Cobras out there, thus guaranteeing Bludd some early exposure.

Wasn't Bludd mail-in initially too? He's always an odd one. I knew he was about early on, but obviously the problem with the limited AF episodes is that there were all these characters that we were vaguely aware of but had no idea how integral they were. Bludd is seemingly Reflector, but for all I know Scrap-Iron might be comic Bludgeon. All these things keep me intrigued. :)

But yeah, Destro and the Baroness are working with an army of blueshirts commanded by some weirdo in a mask... and then there's Bludd. All very strange.

Incidentally, that's about the most you'll see of Snake-Eyes in the cartoon too...

I seem to recall him being relatively prominent in bits of Pyramid of Darkness, which I'll get to over the weekend. I remember some scene with him and Shipwreck traveling along a railway on one of those pump action platform things that I can never remember the word for. Ah well. At least he got the comic...

So far they're all the way through.

I really hate them. It's not like you can fast forward through them either unless you've got super reflexes or something and don't mind doing it 2 times every single episode. Aargh!

:( I like the "play multi-part episodes seamlessly" option. That's good. I don't understand why there's an ad bumper before the end credits though...

Try signing off a formal email with "regards" once you've realised the g is directly beneath t. Nervy.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-21, 08:20 AM
:( I like the "play multi-part episodes seamlessly" option. That's good. I don't understand why there's an ad bumper before the end credits though...

Wacky American TV, quick adverts right before the credits. There might have been a "Next Time/Coming Soon" trailer in-between on original broadcast though, that's how it works on live action shows anyway. mind, longer US shows also have adverts right after the opening credits as well, I don't know if something as short as the Joe and TF cartoons would though (if nothing else they don't have pre-credit sequences either).

Back when Virgin 1 started they initially put the ad breaks in the same places as they would have been in America. A seemingly laudable idea as it avoided the old ITV/Sky problem of going to a break in the middle of a line, but they quickly stopped as I'm guessing they had complaints from people about them doing ads right as shows start and finish.

Halfshell
2010-07-21, 08:31 AM
Wacky American TV, quick adverts right before the credits. There might have been a "Next Time/Coming Soon" trailer in-between on original broadcast though, that's how it works on live action shows anyway. mind, longer US shows also have adverts right after the opening credits as well

I know all that already, but thanks for playing. You go home with a TFArchive pen. Isn't that nice?

The DVDs have a "GI Joe will be back after these messages!" bumper about 6-8 minutes in, followed by "now back to GI Joe!". Then again with about 6 minutes left. But right before the end credits, there's a "back after these messages" followed immediately by the credits. No "now back to GI Joe". Which means that the episode ends, we cut to commercial, then into the credits without even "coming back". Which is weird. Unless I'm remembering wrong.

And it's not a "next time!" gap. Firstly because it's an "after these messages" type deal. Secondly because it was a year before the second mini aired, so there wasn't even a next time to promote.

The show's over! Now here's an advert! Now here's the credits! Now here's some more adverts before the next program!

Can somebody who's actually in American and saw this sort of thing as-aired confirm if that's a legit phenomenon? Because that just seems excessive.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-21, 09:06 AM
I know all that already, but thanks for playing. You go home with a TFArchive pen. Isn't that nice?

I don't like how when you turn it upside down all the clothes on the picture of Hound fall off.

The DVDs have a "GI Joe will be back after these messages!" bumper about 6-8 minutes in, followed by "now back to GI Joe!". Then again with about 6 minutes left. But right before the end credits, there's a "back after these messages" followed immediately by the credits. No "now back to GI Joe". Which means that the episode ends, we cut to commercial, then into the credits without even "coming back". Which is weird. Unless I'm remembering wrong.

Ah got you, I thought you were questioning the presence of the ad break rather than the absence of the return bumper.

And it's not a "next time!" gap. Firstly because it's an "after these messages" type deal. Secondly because it was a year before the second mini aired, so there wasn't even a next time to promote.

I meant a next time trailer after the "messages" rather than what the bumper would cut to. Still applies to the first four shows though. For the fifth (and last ever episodes/end of seasons finals in general over there) they can either have an slightly longer break, a trailer for whatever's replacing it in that time slot or, in repeats/syndication, a trailer for whatever episode they decide to show next (all the "Next Time" promo's on the original Star Trek DVD's were created especially for syndication, hence the first episode of each season managing to have one. Stations just drop in whichever one they need depending on the order they decide on).


Can somebody who's actually in American and saw this sort of thing as-aired confirm if that's a legit phenomenon? Because that just seems excessive.

Though not American I can confirm the R1 TF DVD's are exactly the same (well, the Rhino ones anyway, though if the new Joe DVD's keep them in no doubt the current TF ones do as well).

Halfshell
2010-07-21, 09:26 AM
Ah got you, I thought you were questioning the presence of the ad break rather than the absence of the return bumper.

I'm questioning if it's actually an ad break. I know there's a bumper there, as I can see there's a bumper there. I'm looking for clarification of how it originally aired on t'telly.

I meant a next time trailer after the "messages" rather than what the bumper would cut to. Still applies to the first four shows though

Not if, as my understanding is, the original airing had it all on the same day. My "extensive" research says it was chopped up into five parts for syndication, but first aired all on t'same day, like.

Though not American I can confirm the R1 TF DVD's are exactly the same (well, the Rhino ones anyway, though if the new Joe DVD's keep them in no doubt the current TF ones do as well).

Considering the other changes between the Rhino and Shout versions, nothing should just be assumed.

Halfshell
2010-07-21, 09:33 AM
Not if, as my understanding is, the original airing had it all on the same day. My "extensive" research says it was chopped up into five parts for syndication, but first aired all on t'same day, like.

This is wrong.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-21, 09:38 AM
Not if, as my understanding is, the original airing had it all on the same day. My "extensive" research says it was chopped up into five parts for syndication, but first aired all on t'same day, like.

So would the aforementioned "Watch the multi-part stories seamlessly" option basically be how it was originally broadcast or did they just show one episode after the other?

Glancing at the airdates on the TF wiki, it seems the first two parts of More Than Meets the Eye were shown on the same day but not the third. Curious.

Though weren't Transformers and GI Joe both sold straight into syndication? In that case, are the broadcast dates the actual definate date each episode was first shown or is the same as with The Next Generation where the official date is just when the studio released the tapes with each individual stations showing being at any point in the following seven days?

I think I'm now needlessly confused. Mainly by my own doing. A lesson to us all.


EDIT @Halfshell's last post: So it wasn't shown all on the same day or it was but as individual episodes with no need to split it in repeats?

Halfshell
2010-07-21, 09:52 AM
So would the aforementioned "Watch the multi-part stories seamlessly" option basically be how it was originally broadcast or did they just show one episode after the other?

It just chops the credits off. The timer still resets itself between episodes and there's a pause whilst it loads up the next ones.

Though weren't Transformers and GI Joe both sold straight into syndication? In that case, are the broadcast dates the actual definate date each episode was first shown or is the same as with The Next Generation where the official date is just when the studio released the tapes with each individual stations showing being at any point in the following seven days?

Everything I can find just lists the dates (always the same dates) as first airing. No indication on what station(s) though.

EDIT @Halfshell's last post: So it wasn't shown all on the same day or it was but as individual episodes with no need to split it in repeats?

The info is fuzzy. They probably stripped the titles for syndication and replaced it with whatever season's credits were for the time, as per TF. This is why I want answers from an actual American rather than somebody who's just theorising in the same way I already have. :)

Halfshell
2010-07-21, 10:54 AM
[EDIT] Just bought 25th Anniversary Cobra Commander. Resisting the urge to just buy everything... will team him with Masterpiece Megatron as the founding members of my Evil League of Rubishness (Evil League of Evil is already taken, see). Future entrants may include Skeletor and either Mr Sinister or Apocalypse.

Have just purchased Marvel Universe 3.75" Green Goblin and Magneto*, to flesh out the Evil League of Rubbishness. I think I've got a 200x series Skeletor knocking about somewhere already...

Looking at maybe adding a 25th Baroness too. Hrmmm.

* who comes packed with Spidey-in-the-costume-from-TF#3. Go thematics!

[EDIT] Bollocks. Just bought the Baroness, Storm Shadow, Flint, Lady Jaye and Snake Eyes from the 25th Anniversary 5 Packs. Plus the 25th Zartan that comes with the chameleon ski. And, apparently, Nemesis Immortal Enforcer. Because he's evil, rubbish and kinda cool looking.

Just Destro and the Twins to go. And maybe some other AF stalwarts.

I suck at willpower. :(

Cliffjumper
2010-07-21, 12:38 PM
Shit, sorry :( I would recommend some of the more awesome Joes, but I won't now... the 25th anniversary figures are like crack, sadly - it's bits like the pistol holsters and moving feet that really kick them into touch. Careful with Lady Jaye's javelin thing, though - it bends so easily that mine just has the backpack and a generic assault rifle.

Much prefer the faceplate myself for the same reason - it just somehow breaks plausibility that the cloth would be in exactly the same position the whole time if it's plastic, but fabric would look a bit silly.

Not seen GI Joe, obviously, but when I went to America a few years ago I was amazed at the number of adverts in reruns of Buffy - I definitely remember there being break, pre-credits and credits, break, but can't recall for the ending. I also saw American Pie, edited so much that it actually ceased to make sense. And lots of Joe Schmoe, which was ****ing ace.

@ Hound: Nah, not got Tomax/Xamot yet - I'm weighing up whether to sink serious funds into the 25th version or just get the originals, which seem to be very popular with Chinese factory thieves.

I got 25th Falcon today... He's nowhere near lunky enough, sadly.

Hound
2010-07-21, 02:34 PM
The show's over! Now here's an advert! Now here's the credits! Now here's some more adverts before the next program!Well yeah, gotta maximize the time spent turning us kids into consumer drones during the cartoons meant to turn us into consumer drones. Right Tom? :p

Cliffjumper
2010-07-21, 03:22 PM
Dunno what you're talking about, I'm in complete control.


Ooooh, 25th anniversary Doc...

Cliffjumper
2010-07-21, 04:10 PM
They've just turned Iceberg into a whale. How the Hell did I miss that first time around?

inflatable dalek
2010-07-21, 07:32 PM
Not seen GI Joe, obviously, but when I went to America a few years ago I was amazed at the number of adverts in reruns of Buffy - I definitely remember there being break, pre-credits and credits, break, but can't recall for the ending.


And over the years the amount of adverts have slowly increased as well, I think 24 is (or I should say was at this point) down to 41 minuets.

I'm actually surprised, considering we've had Star Wars and Mr. Potato Head, that Hasbro has never done Joe Transformer toys. Though slightly thankful.

Halfshell
2010-07-21, 07:47 PM
Well Takara beat them to it by about thirty years. Or if my understanding of the origin of Microchange is correct, anyway.

Right - watching the second mini. I know NEW TOY it's the NEW TOY second mini NEW TOY because there's NEW TOY lots of characters who weren't in the last one. Which is handy, because at the moment Duke's been taken hostage in Cobra headquarters and is being made to fight against his will whilst Cobra use Destro's new machine to try and control the world. Which is essentially all that had happened by this point in the previous mini.

Nice of them to ignore the "Cobra Commander was captured" ending to the previous one by just having him captured in the first five minutes of this and then busted loose by Zartan.

It's a good thing Zartan's fantastically cool, because the introduction of him and the Dreadnocks is about as NEW TOY expository as anything Transformers ever foisted upon us. I'm not sure why his armour keeps glowing, but it's a good thing they had him explain that sunlight cripples his camoflauge abilities because otherwise I wouldn't know why his skin changed colour. Gotta love how Destro makes a big deal out of the Dreadnocks not being Cobra agents, just hired mercenaries despite everybody in the room knowing, just as NEW TOY Crimson Guard hands Cobra Commander his hood so he can change into his NEW TOY costume. Good grief.

Three minutes into the second episode and no sign of the twins yet, though. Maybe they're not in it. Ho hum. But still, Flint.

Oh, and to settle the earlier questions - the Action Force credits are a chopped down version of the intro to this one (but with better music, obviously). The French version (or whatever it was I found earlier) has most of the footage, sans the "Revenge of Cobra" title screen.

OH MY GOD MASTERPIECE KING GRIMLOCK HAS AN LED HAND TO LIGHT UP THE SWORD.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-21, 07:53 PM
So would you say there's a lot of new toys in it?

Halfshell
2010-07-21, 07:59 PM
Scrap Iron, Storm Shadow, Firefly, Flint, Lady Jaye, Mutt, Occasionally-rhyming Roadblock, Spirit, Zartan and Chamelon Ski, Buzzer, Ripper, Torch, Crimson Guard, New Cobra Commander, New Snake Eyes, Cobra Stinger, Cobra Glider... er...

They could have spread it out a bit, but no, this is all within the first fifteen minutes.

OH NO THEY OPENED THE SKYLIGHT WITH ZARTAN IN THE ROOM HE DOESN'T LIKE SUNLIGHT SEE HOW HIS SKIN CHANGES COLOUR, THE TOY DOES THAT YOU KNOW.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-21, 08:03 PM
I find Revenge calms down a but quicker, and is a bit better with the extant characters (e.g. once we've got a bit of a feel for Flint, Duke comes back into the plot). Compare and constrast when you get to the Serpentor one...

It probably helps that the characters rapidly introduced in Revenge go on to be in a fairly even season, whereas the ones in Serpentor go on to be in a fairly dodgy one.

Halfshell
2010-07-21, 08:07 PM
Yeah, it's evened out a bit now that the pace has slowed and things are actually happening.

The beginning just reminded me of that "ALL OF THEM!!!" bit from the beginning of Rebirth, when suddenly "all the Decepticons" consists of a whole load we've never even heard of before and they're fighting Autobots who've never been mentioned either. But without the godawful "my Autobot counterpart is near by" part.

HEY IT'S SHIPWRECK! AWESOME! Not only did they hold somebody back, but it's somebody cool who they held back to introduce in a cool way. Cool!

inflatable dalek
2010-07-21, 08:20 PM
Thinking about the Action Force credits, does the fact Patrick Allen does the voiceover mean the dub/re-edit was done in this country? And if so does that mean it's not the original actors doing the "FULL FORCE!!!" lines?

Oddly it sounds like the same guy doing both versions of the Movie voiceover, suggesting that was all done at the same time (though for a film intended for cinematic release there'd be more of a focus on international versions I suppose).

EDIT: Just watched the Joe version and yes, Action Force is vastly superior. All the sound effects are different as well, suggesting whoever did it didn't have access to a "clear" version of them and had to add their own.

Halfshell
2010-07-21, 08:51 PM
We've had Cutter, Recondo and the Moccasin now, too. Much better pacing. Shame it's devolved into another "Cobra and GI Joe must race against time and each other to recover crucial components from around the world, using their specialist NEW TOY vehicles where applicable." Funny feeling Pyramid of Darkness follows the same basic plot.

Even Spirit's been separated from the rest in possession of one part. Though points are awarded for the inclusion of Storm Shadow into the subplot.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-21, 09:02 PM
And if so does that mean it's not the original actors doing the "FULL FORCE!!!" lines?

Erm... yeh. Watch the Action Force dub of the film and it's pretty obvious the partially dubbed dialogue is done by completely different people - sometimes the impressions are passable (if still noticeable due to being, well, dubbed), sometimes they're not (they don't get many of the Cobra ones right).

Shipwreck's ace, and is a bit of a high point whenever he turns up. The main difference between the two minis is that most of the characters being shoved into the second one are much more interesting (I mean, Stalker... boring). It's also surprising how less twatty Roadblock is when he isn't rhyming the whole time (he inexplicably starts doing this in Season 2).

inflatable dalek
2010-07-22, 06:15 AM
Erm... yeh. Watch the Action Force dub of the film and it's pretty obvious the partially dubbed dialogue is done by completely different people - sometimes the impressions are passable (if still noticeable due to being, well, dubbed), sometimes they're not (they don't get many of the Cobra ones right).

I must admit I've never noticed, but I've got the DVD that switches from Joe to Force halfway through so that's more than distracting enough by itself. It probably was done in the UK then, I wonder if the company gets an inserted credit on the AF closing titles?

There's a good chance then that the laser and other SF sounds in the titles were taken from the BBC sound effects LP, it was used by pretty much everyone in the '80's (to the point where Cosgrove Hall got a legal letter asking them to stop using it in Dangermouse, which brings us almost full circle).

Halfshell
2010-07-22, 07:51 AM
I like how Revenge of Cobra ends with Cobra Commander captured, Destro free and plotting, and Breaker left to use the Cobra machine to undo the damage done... but with hilarious side-effects.

It's like all those Roger Moore Bonds where, because there wasn't home video, they could get away with giving them all exactly the same plot.

That was actually alright once it calmed down a bit.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-22, 08:02 AM
No doubt the next mini will deal with CC's awesome escape rather than just forgetting it ever happened, right?

At least the first season of Transformers would spend all of five seconds at the start of each story dealing with their strange obsession with ending most of the early episodes with everyone thinking Megatron's dead. Even if it mostly boils down to "So, you escaped from Castrovalva!" stuff.

Halfshell
2010-07-22, 08:08 AM
At least the first season of Transformers would spend all of five seconds at the start of each story dealing with their strange obsession with ending most of the early episodes with everyone thinking Megatron's dead.

Did it?

At all?

Ever?

All I can remember is the "the Decepticons are defeated, the Ark refueled and we're out of here" ending to More Than Meets The Eye being ignored completely, and then Heavy Metal War ending with "they're all thrown in the lava... oh, but they're still alive."

Aside from that, when did a season 1 episode end with people thinking Megatron was dead? Unless "retreat" is Cybertronian for "I'm going to die now."

[EDIT] Right, just skimmed Spengler's ep guide. At the end of Transport to Oblivion, Starscream thinks he's dead but we know otherwise. Starscream discovers the truth next episode. At the end of The Ultimate Doom, Spike thinks he's dead, Prime suspects to the contrary and the viewer knows the truth. Seemingly untouched next time out.

So, er, once then. And it's Starscream rather than everybody. Well done.

Halfshell
2010-07-22, 05:46 PM
So far, so awesome on the Pyramid of Darkness front. Though I might be biased based on it being the first story I've seen before (loads of times, at that... stunned how much I remember, though).

Well paced, subverts the "well we're on a top secret mission, so be careful because Cobra might be about... hey, there they are!" intro quite well. Duke's still a hostage within the first episode, but other than that all good.

Very few new toys characters to introduced, so it's quite calm and sedate. Lovely use of divvying people up into pairs and letting them just do the double act thing... Flint/Lady Jaye, Dusty/Mutt, Shipwreck/Polly (okay, and Snake Eyes). Polly's awesome. Airtight and I think Leatherneck?

And Roadblock is rhyming almost constantly. Boo!

Cliffjumper
2010-07-22, 06:05 PM
Always thought Leatherneck was a Season 2 chap... Gung-Ho? Footloose? I've put my disc with the three minis down somewhere...

Halfshell
2010-07-22, 06:09 PM
It's Footloose. They just said. Yay me. Alpine and Bazooka's another one.

Just bought Bazooka, Hawk, Roadblock, Barbecue and Mutt. Oops. Oh dear, they did all three Dreadnocks. This could be interesting. And by interesting I mean expensive.

I want to stab Quick Kick in the face. I think I repressed him from before.

Cliffjumper
2010-07-22, 06:18 PM
Yeh - I love him in the Action Force comics (weirdly he barely featured in the American stuff before being Underbased by some twat fifty issues later), but in the cartoon he's a rpat. "I work in Hollywood, therefore everything I say should be a film quote! And I'll say from what film the whole time too!". I should warn he gets at least one 'focus' episode too.

Bazooka's ****ing massive - he was, I think, the first or second 25th figure I had and he scared the crap out of me because I thought they'd all be completely incompatible with the older stuff, but he's bigger even than the rest of the 25th figures and looks a bit less mad with a buffer...

Halfshell
2010-07-22, 06:26 PM
Yeah, I thought he looked a bit chunky.

"Like the guy says, aaand awaaaaay we go."

Did the Karate Kock just quote Powerglide? FFS.

inflatable dalek
2010-07-22, 08:04 PM
Just flicked through the end of the film and yes, now it's pointed out the fact other actors are doing the changed lines is incrediably obvious. Silliest bit being when Hawk, having presumably originally called Falcon a Joe, now calls him a "Force". Which just sounds odd.

I think Action Force has been ruined forever for me now. :(

Oh, and I was wrong, there's no sound effects in the AF titles, the stuff at the start (and randomly a bit in the middle) actually sounds more like the bloke doing the music hitting a few laserish sounding synth sounds to roughly match what's on screen.

Does the fancy boxset include a copy of the film?

Cliffjumper
2010-07-22, 08:28 PM
If it's the second half, you probably miss the worst bits - the Cobra High Command get the worst voices; whoever's doing it can manage a basic soldier voice, but struggles with the various nutjobs.

Watched with a bit more knowledge, aside from the numerous shared plot points there's definitely another thing in common between it and TF:TM - it gets progressively less interesting as it goes along. Statue of Liberty? Hell yeh! Pythona's assassination attempt? Great. Battle for the BET? Good. Beach Head drilling the Rawhides? Decent. Serpentor's escape? Alright. Then the plot proper kicks in and it's a shitty rollercoaster into terribleness largely full of characters no-one really likes.

Finished the Devil's Due comic, and it's not bad, especially once Blaylock is put out of his misery and the cartoon influence fades. America's Elite is basically The Authority with soldiers, but it's nicely done and the twelve-part World War III is quite well done with some great payoffs to stuff they've been building up to for ages, some great tiny cameos (Quarrel! Blades! Dolphin! Moondancer! Okay, they possibly die immediately, but still, Action Force in GI Joe!), Snake-Eyes free of ninja bullshit, pretty much every storyline actually tied up... Good stuff.

Not brave enough to chance IDW yet (not really into a reboot, which'll compare badly with Devil's Due largely working with the Marvel material, while Larry Hama picking up where he left off in 1995 was one of the low points of DD and I can't see IDW changing that). Probably going to wait until WW3 is out of my mind so I don't automatically resent IDW's material for terminating the book.

Hound
2010-07-22, 11:56 PM
Don't Forget to read some of those mini-series. GIJoe Declassified is one of my favorite Joe comics. The DD Special Missions comics and Snake Eyes Declassified are pretty good I think, it's been awhile.

The rest I don't remember being all that thrilled with...

Edit: @Dalek, no, it didn't come with the film. At least mine didn't...

Halfshell
2010-07-23, 12:37 AM
The film isn't included, though there is an empty space at the back of the season 2 case to allow for it.