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Springer85
2010-11-09, 09:56 PM
Your all purpose Transformers #13 reaction and discussion thingy.

Out November 10.

-ziggy

----

TRANSFORMERS #13
Written by Mike Costa with art by Nick Roche.
Covers by Don Figueroa and Nick Roche

RODIMUS might be impulsive, but he’s not stupid. The last anyone saw of him, he was rocketing off Earth in disgrace and a stolen ship. In this issue we finally see where he went, what his plan was, and which long-absent DECEPTICONS he came up against. Mike Costa and fan-favorite artist Nick Roche deliver a stand-alone issue that sets up the entire second year of the hit ongoing series.

*2 regular covers will be shipped in a 1-to-1 ratio.
FC • 32 pages • $3.995 page preview over here: http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/5-page-preview-of-transformers-ongoing-13/20170/

Auntie Slag
2010-11-09, 10:57 PM
I love 'Cover B' of Hot Rod leaping off the hilltop like a superman, very dynamic and fun. More of that would be great, and less of the Starscream strangling Hot Rod cover. It's nice enough but rather meh, which an image like that really shouldn't be. I'm with bolting into the future rather than endless nods to the past, unless they're done well (LSotW). :)

Speaking of which, this issue has a lovely whiff of 'Kup's Story' from Marvel UK issue 133 I think?

horizon
2010-11-10, 05:36 AM
Jeez, did the art turn this mediocre?

Commander Shockwav
2010-11-11, 02:23 AM
At least there are no humans throwing bottles of acid at the faces of Decepticons.

But in the interest of staying consistent, it does have it's share of some ridiculously silly parts, the most silly being Razorclaw accidentally swallowing one of Bombshell's cerebroshells and suddenly falling under the mental sway of Bombsh....wait...he fell under the mental sway of Hot Rod. Because, uh, because, I guess Hot Rod, uh, also shares a link to Bombshell's cerebroshells? :eyebrow:

And just last issue, I was saying at least Razorclaw was spared humiliation as a pet of the Chinese.

See, here's the problem. Costa has made the Decepticons a bunch of incompetent clowns. Even the one's made out to be credible threats in the past, like Razorclaw, he has managed to castrate. There is no intrigue or sense of urgency in this story now because of it. It's almost comical, almost The Three Stooges comical, the way the Decepticons are being portrayed. I was just waiting for Starscream to let out a Curly-esque "nyah, nyah" after he slaps Bombshells hand away reaching for the Matrix. Seriously, the Decepticon's on that asteroid have acted like a bunch of impetuous drunks on an acid trip. I mean, out of the entire Decepticon cast, only Swindle has a shred of competency? Does it always have to take Shockwave to enter the fray before real evil rears it's ugly head? Here comes Menasor! Oh. No wait. There he goes, falling apart. Hey, it's the Combaticons! Uh, why is Onslaught bowing to the the North Korean head of state? Look! A Constructicon survived! Oh no! Acid! Ruuuuun!

Sigh. At least now we have Megatron, who begins his new stint in a way befitting a true Decepticon warrior. The ending, I actually liked, as I didn't see that coming. Finally, chalk one up for the Cons.

Give it a "C+", mainly for the ending. Though I enjoy Roche's pencils, I'm thinking the return of Don is just what we need to get this thing at least looking serious again. With a badass Megatron in tow, I'm hoping that's what we will get.

snavej
2010-11-11, 07:27 PM
Did any Decepticon even bother to investigate the power of the Matrix? They were treating it like an ornament! Maybe they are simply incapable of understanding it.

Perhaps Hot Rod got lucky with the cerebro shell. If Bombshell quickly 'tuned' it so that it would interface with Hot Rod, the Autobot could then use it on Razorclaw. That's my guess.

Red Dave Prime
2010-11-11, 10:47 PM
Love the art - really like the way Roche put his own spin on dons tidings design. Looking forward to picking this one up just for the art.

Regarding bombshell, in the earlier issue it shows that the victim is open to suggestion from anyone so it may be stupid but it does follow the previous stuff properly

Paul053
2010-11-13, 06:15 AM
And just last issue, I was saying at least Razorclaw was spared humiliation as a pet of the Chinese.


So, last issue Razorclaw was on earth and this issue he is here? What the????? Is this a practical joke that assumed nobody was paying any attentions on last issue? Or is this just a typical G1 cartoon error? Come on Roche, you should slap Costa's head and said "Waht are you doing?". Or you are also one of the people who did not pay anything attentions on last issue. Give you some credit, though. At least I didn't see a full page filled with two big faces talking each other.

Commander Shockwav
2010-11-13, 05:17 PM
So, last issue Razorclaw was on earth and this issue he is here? What the????? Is this a practical joke that assumed nobody was paying any attentions on last issue? Or is this just a typical G1 cartoon error? Come on Roche, you should slap Costa's head and said "Waht are you doing?". Or you are also one of the people who did not pay anything attentions on last issue. Give you some credit, though. At least I didn't see a full page filled with two big faces talking each other.

No, Razorclaw wasn't on Earth with his other fellow Predacons, that's why I said he was spared the humiliation.

Red Dave Prime
2010-11-13, 10:34 PM
Ok, quite liked this. Really like the more cartoony style of roches art. Bags of character and energy.

The story itself is very simple so theres not much for costa to mess up. All the characters act closer to how they should than previous costa works. Even rodimus feels more like the early character than the rodimus that irked me through the early costa arc.

The best bit of course is the return of Megatron. The new design isnt completely to my taste (is it the animated version or war for cybertron?) but its great that he's no longer a little gun. Now can someone give soundwave a new alt form?



Also, if some people felt that AHM was a longer version of DWs prime directive, then they may also feel some deja-vu with the return of a darker, more serious version of Megatron - similar to DWs own ongoing round about issue 10-12.

More than his new body, Megatron also should bring back a sense of purpose not just to the decepticon rabble but to the comic as a whole. He looks a serious threat and it should give the ongoing the serious kick it needs. Fingers crossed anyway.

The end panel is an interesting one and theres an obvious "out" basically, rodimus is blasted into space by megatron and left with a massive hole in his chest, seemingly dead. But he still has the matrix so that could bring him back to life further down the road

But hopefully its a indication of things to come regarding Megatron - And hopefully this atitude will be inflicted on starscream. As he sits around through this issue you get the feeling even HE is bored with his own character. Lets face it, theres nothing left to do with the guy and with the seekers no longer really any kind of faction (ramjet and thrust are dead, dirge is a maybe dead from his encounter on nebulos with thunderwing and thundercracker is an autobot - sort of) theres not much of a point to having him as a main. My suggestion is that Megatron truly destroys Screamer next issue. Be done with the treachorous decepticon arc, its been done to death. At least his death could lead to a potential thundercracker revenge plot aganst Megatron.

But yeah, a good issue more for what it might lead to than whats actually within the covers.


EDIT: Just remembered that dirge goes down in AHM when he gets shoved through the space bridge. So thats all the Conehead seekers down :(

Paul053
2010-11-14, 05:57 AM
Okay, now I have read the issue. So Costa intentionally left Razorclaw on the asteroid so he can be a joke for Hot Rod to play with? Initially I thought he was on earth even while reading #12 (see, I am also the one who doesn't pay much attention) because they (all combiners) all should stick together in my thought.

@Red Dave Prime, see, I didn't pay much attention on the head count again. Yeah, all the seekers (Acid Storm doesn't count) are gone except Thundercracker who still haven't had a Hasbro version of deluxe class repaint in classics (generation) line yet, and he is sort of an Autobot now. Who knows what will he do when he knows Megatron is back.

About Hot Rod, do you really think the upgraded Bumblebee will be gone for good also? He kind of suffers the similar injury.

Red Dave Prime
2010-11-14, 11:09 AM
Bumblebees wound looked so over the top. I cant believe that we've seen the last of upgraded bee. Besides, Rodimus is left floating in space where as Bee is with the autobots (and the humans to an extent)

Funny thought - regarding the shot on Bumblebee, I thought the only way for that to seem plausible was if it did indeed turn out to be megatron that the human was holding. It clearly wasnt so it would appear that Megatrons super powerful new arm cannon is the same as.... a human laser pistol.

For fecks sake costa...

Paul053
2010-11-15, 03:52 PM
Rodimus is left floating in space

Now I think he will be "accidentally" picked up by Cosmos.........

Megatrons super powerful new arm cannon is the same as.... a human laser pistol.

:lol: See! We humans can evolve faster and greater than robots.

Blackjack
2010-11-18, 12:54 PM
Issue twelve was pure dirge. The whole international incident arc, plus issue eight (one-that-should-never-be-spoken-of-again) is a cheap filler that detracts from the more interesting plots that Costa had seeded before. God, issue twelve just had the exact same conclusion with AHM, but with Cosmos subbing in for Thundercracker (or Superion or Skyblast if you want to compare it with Dreamwave's comics). And the whole International Incident crap/dirge/bad fanfic simply falls flat on its face.

It's kind of annoying, really, to have average/mediocre issues, a couple of good ones, a string of plodding nonsense, and another semi-good issue. This yo-yo quality really vexes me... Costa clearly can write a good story when he sets his mind to it. There are times when that happened (the Ironhide mini, as well as issues 4, 5, 7 and 13 being the prime only examples), so why the hell does he write like a lost fanboy the rest of the time?

Considering that the ongoing has exceeded the Dead-Furmanverse and AHM in issue numbers, it has told a story that seems more insubstantial than either one of those two.

Issue thirteen was great, but anything touched by Nick Roche would be. In fact, I suspect that the continuity references thrown in by Hot Rod was all Nick Roche's work.

zigzagger
2010-12-08, 01:05 AM
This is your all purpose Transformers #14 reaction and discussion thread.

Out December 8.

Preview @ Comicbook Resources (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=7177).

Commander Shockwav
2010-12-08, 11:25 PM
If one accepts the premise that humans can be legitimate opponents to Transformers if properly armed (which I don't think I can) then this issue wasn't bad. In fact, I'd say I was a bit intrigued for the first time since the first six-issue arc about where things are going.

Most intriguing to me now is the newly arising question, "What are Megatron's remains doing on Earth?". Now, I'm not sure what will happen with this or what Costa will do with it, but I see a potentially kickass twist that could occur here if done right. Consider that issue when Starscream's Decepticons on that asteroid were first shown. Seemingly out of nowhere, Shockwave was present, for just one panel. And since that time, he has remained conspicuously absent. No sign of him in the last issue when Hot Rod attacked. Interestingly, Megatron's new body is much more akin to Shockwave himself, in both color and design. Also interestingly, the new Megatron showed no concern for the very item he chased around the galaxy, the Matrix. I would think that strange for Megatron and out of character. But not so much for Shockwave, who never really desired it.

So what if, what if, this new Megatron isn't Megatron at all? What if this is Shockwave given new form? A form, dare I say, that somewhat mimics his new upcoming form in the movie, given his sillohuette in the prequel comics yet to be published?

Why would Shockwave do this? I don't know, but I would think an adept writer could certainly create a good enough motive to make this one of the greatest twists in a comic book since Ratchet and Megs got blown together into one being. Perhaps Shockwave might do this to more easily usurp Decepticon authority. Megatron's troops would never question Megatron. They might do so with Shockwave.

Is this what Costa is up to? After all, we know the new big baddy for the upcoming movie is Shockers. What better way to bring him back into the spotlight and have him assume command of the Decepticon army without firing a shot? I would take a lot back if it were true. But I'm not holding my breath.

Say what you will about the faces, Don's art still fascinates me. His angles and proportions are always spot on. He makes the bots sleek and deadly looking, and I think that certainly adds a more serious undertone to a story that sorely needs to jettison that cartoony feel. If only he could stay on permanently.

It continues to be absolutely infuriatingly stupid though, this idea that the Autobots are "stuck" on Earth, which Magnus again reminds us about this issue as well. I am begging Mike to please never mention this again. No matter how many times he tries to convince us this makes sense, it never really will. So let's just assume that for whatever reason, the Autobots are there and leave it at that.

Give this issue a "C+".

Red Dave Prime
2010-12-09, 09:44 PM
Think I agree with most everything you said there shocks. Dons art does seem to suit Costa best, as you say adding realism to a script which often has none.
He also does faces better than most (altough Spikes face warping is getting ever more ridiculous issue to issue)

The plot itself is interesting - at least regarding whats with all the guns and megs head. I like you're idea as its something I never would have expected and it somewhat makes sense but does costa really have the balls to ax megs in that matter? It would also negate issue 7 completely (altough that kind of thing never seems to bother IDW). Must say thats Dons drawing of new megatron looks great.

Back to the issue itself and yeah, some interesting things to at least carry me into the next one. But stuff like autobots stuck on earth (come on!), the guy getting a massively powerful weapon from a webboard which is evidently being monitored by the goverment (double come on!) take any gloss off. Its a stay of execution but next issue better start the good stuff - simply wanting to know whats going on isnt good enough anymore.

Commander Shockwav
2010-12-09, 10:36 PM
The plot itself is interesting - at least regarding whats with all the guns and megs head. I like you're idea as its something I never would have expected and it somewhat makes sense but does costa really have the balls to ax megs in that matter? It would also negate issue 7 completely (altough that kind of thing never seems to bother IDW).

It doesn't have to mean permanent axing of Megs. A good writer could easily make Megatron's return after Shockwave impersonates him as triumphant as it deserves to be.

And with Abbnett and Lanning bringing Galvatron into the fold, who likely has a special affinity for the dead, Megatron's return at that juncture would make even more sense.

Seriously, the possibilities of making a real kickass story in Transformers are endless. It's frustrating when Costa and McCarthy continue to give us such cliche and predicatable material and expect us to like it. For God's sake, most of us have been reading Transformers for over a decade. Give us something we haven't seen before!

Red Dave Prime
2010-12-10, 04:48 PM
Dunno, that Megs head looks really fooked. Doubt you could recreate Megatron if he was in that condition. Curious about the workers assembling the guns - if they are facims it may start to tie together a bit better.

One thing I hate about this plot though is that a gun that size can be that powerful. It sort of made a little sense when Megatron himself was the weapon and he was jacked up on ore-13 but if weapons that powerful can be that small (and mass produced it seems) why dont the transformers themselves equip them as standard weapons? Imagine a robot sized pistol which housed six of those bad boys? It would take down nearly any regular transformer with one shot (going on the fact one nearly killed a re-inforced bumblebee.

Also have to give credit where its due - snarvj called it somewhat correctly. That was a Megatron Pistol in the guys hand. Theres a joke in there about "great" minds thinking alike but I'll take the high road...

snavej
2010-12-13, 05:25 PM
A whiff of the ludicrous: humans managing to make such powerful guns. Either they're world-class scientists/engineers or maybe it's easier than we thought, e.g. 'use two egg boxes, not just one'.:)

Megatron's severed head: a bit like the situation in T.F. /G.I. Joe 'Art of War'.

Paul053
2010-12-16, 05:34 AM
Wow, no wonder Comm. Shock sounds so anxious this time. This issue does bring up a lot of potentials. But how many time have IDW and Costa failed and ruined those potentials? Anyway, back to the head. Didn't Starscream brought the whole Megatron's body back to space at the end of AHM? Don't tell me he left the head behind. Then what about issue 7? Please also don't tell me this is a typical G1 cartoon error. For some reason, that "Earth's Children" spokesperson reminds me so much of Iron Man 2's Justin Hammer.

zigzagger
2011-01-05, 06:33 PM
Your all purpose Transformers #15 reaction and discussion thingy.

Out today.

Preview @ IDW Publishing (http://idwpublishing.com/news/article/1568/).

Commander Shockwav
2011-01-06, 10:16 PM
Huh. Two good issues in a row. I think we might be starting to get somewhere.

Megatron is back, but I still think my suspicions will prove true, that Shockwave is behind all of this. For one, the issue is narrated in such a way where it is not clear who the narrator is, referring to Megatron in the third person. So the narrator can't be Megatron himself. Secondly, the narration boxes are purple. Thirdly, we see that Megatron is resurrected by Shockwave himself.

And finally, the statement by Shockwave that "some of us are capable of performing two tasks at once" in reference to building Megatron a new body whilst building a space bridge. But is there a hidden meaning behind this statement?

Also, whether intentional or accidental, Megatron doesn't sound like Megatron at all. Somehow, he seems more...calculating and under control.

All of which point to Shockwave taking it from here. Which would be awesome.

The bots in this look great. Shockwave, Soundwave, Starscream, they look as good as they ever have. Don is the man. I was sad to here he will be leaving the book. He just makes things feel so much heavier and lends that darker tone to things that Guido and Nick just can't reproduce.

Also, looking forward to Magnus and Brawn getting some screen time. It's always nice when a bot gets 'spotlighted' in the story itself, if you will.

Give this issue an "A-" I'm seeing potential here. The only downside is that we're being sucked back to Earth. Guess that asteroid wasn't a stepping stone to greater things after all.

Paul053
2011-01-07, 08:30 PM
Read it. Yeah, a word that I've not been used for long in the series, better. Or few more words, much, much better. Really a lot of potentials, hope Mike can keep up with them while creating them. Only part that still dragged me down is the first three pages that still full of two people talking, but at least slightly better than Bee-Cracker and Prime-Spike.

Yes, I'm sure that narrator is Shockwave, which makes this issue even better. I'm also curious to see how much Megatron will be changed when back in action.

Don's drawing here is much better than the first six when he tried the new design out. I Also have the same feeling it will be sad and pity if he is really leaving.

I think Starscream should bring Skywarp along with him because Skywarp is really the one who did THAT thing to Thundercracker, right?

Neuronutter
2011-01-13, 04:07 PM
Glad to hear the series is improving. I was considering dropping it but now I'll wait and see if the trend continues. Also, Don's off the book again? And Milne's on it? I wish Don would make up his mind and either commit to the series, then we can have some consistency, or leave permanently. I'd rather see him on it, but the constant changing is frustrating.

snavej
2011-01-14, 06:40 PM
I wonder if all the little Walthers transform into Mini Megs?! It would be like 'Emperor Zurg' from 'Toy Story 2', only more destructive!

Paul053
2011-01-14, 07:04 PM
I wonder if all the little Walthers transform into Mini Megs?! It would be like 'Emperor Zurg' from 'Toy Story 2', only more destructive!

I thought about that, too. And then another even more crazy though coming out, will they combine back to............ Oh well, that's too much.

Blackjack
2011-01-15, 09:07 AM
A lot, lot better than the dire and forgettable International Incident thing, thankfully. I mean, you could basically skip the whole four issues, plus the Spike one, and and read straight from issue 7 to 13 without anything.

Although do we need four pages of seeing random gunner look at his daughter in the radio and whatnot? Kind of boring, and could've been condensed to one page.

A conspiracy website to sow hatred of transformers: a great, fresh idea. But AHM had lots of great, fresh ideas as well. Love the touch of using the Drift cover for the website's heading, though.

Frenzy and Rumble switching colours: unprofessional.

People forgetting Frenzy had already been captured in Bumblebee #2: stupid.

People ignoring the Bumblebee mini: brilliant.

It seems that the Ben guy is a fascimile or otherwise a mind-controlled human. Soundwave breaking out the Autobots is great fun, and Ultra Magnus and Brawn are both great value here. Smokescreen snapping out against the humans is well done as well. Irritating spiky-haired Skywatch agent being run down by Dead End? Nice.

Megatron guns? Meh. But if the weapons are reverse-engineered from Megatron, it does gives stuff credence. Like a rogue Skywatch group.

Bunch of plot holes in it, but not as bad as the past few issues.

What I hope wouldn't be f***ed up completely, like Shockwav and Red had said, is Megatron. We had him monologue in issue 7, we had him rebuilt in a new body last issue.... and now we have him as a disembodied head here. I don't know, this might be another chance for bad continuity.

Don's art is amazing, and his humans are nicer at least. Great touch with changing the eyes to be able to emote.

Better than the crap we had before, thankfully. More like this, please. But almost every arc IDW churns out had a great start. We'll see if this holds. I'm through with hope.

Blackjack
2011-01-15, 11:25 AM
Read this one too. Impressed, truly am. Like issue four. Which brings to bear, if Costa could write gems like this why the hell did he **** the International Incident arc up?

Brawn was amazing, Starscream, Shockwave, Megatron, Ultra Magnus are all amazing... the plot isn't another boring rehash for once. The anti-TF human organization is believable enough, and the fact that they have backing with subconscious whatnot from Megatron in those guns is a nice touch. Though for all the crap made out of the cerebro shells in past issues I'd have expected them to be used instead.

That montage of scenes explaining what happened between AHM and now is great. Shockwave is in tiptop form, despite his eye colour change. Don's art is amazing.

Do we need more humans? Why the hell does Doctor Einstein is needed when this could be a job for someone like First Aid or Wheeljack to undertake?

Not sure if the narrator is Shockwave. I thought he was Megatron, but after reading Shockwav's argument... well, I dunno, I've read it as being Megatron in the first place. I think it's left vague on purpose. I do hope Shockwave would have lots of machinations behind the scenes. :up:

Don't like the Thundercracker development.

Why the hell is Screamer in his F22 body when two issues ago he's in his F15?

Next issue seems to be Spotlight Brawn. Wheeee.

Red Dave Prime
2011-01-24, 09:20 PM
Nice issue. Plenty of little seeds to mull over and guess what may/may not be going on. Some parts feel a bit hokey - Prime and the others not being able to establish radio contact? fine but they better be offline if thats the case. Megatron fearing the matrix around starscream but not when it was around Rodimus (or Prime in AHM for that matter). Also the bit when it flashed back to Megatron shooting Rodimus, I swear it looks like the old Megatron Cannon Arm.
I'm also not massively sold on Magnus thinking the gun is megatron. Surely even a basic scan would reveal that?

But these niggles dont take away from what is overall an enjoyable issue that could lead on to good stuff. I know a lot of people have sworn of the IDW stuff and I wouldnt send out the "all clear to return" just yet but this isnt looking too bad.

Edit: On the subject of the narative, I'm not sure if its any particular transformer. I get the feeling its just a narative.

snavej
2011-01-27, 11:15 AM
Can an Autobot scan spot this 'fake Megatron'? It depends on how the shrinking-to-gun-mode process works and also if the Autobots managed to obtain recent scans of the real (gun) Megatron for comparison. The Decepticon leader would resist being scanned unless he wanted it for some reason.

Red Dave Prime
2011-01-27, 11:31 AM
I can understand if they were decieved from a distance but it's a bit much to expect that they would be decieved up close. And if all those guns do turn into even mini megatons, it flies in the face of the fact that the deceptions had very low fuel reserves.

snavej
2011-01-27, 01:40 PM
Yes, Autobots would be master scanners by now. However, some people suspect that Megatron and others use extra dimensions to store excess mass when they shrink. If true, this would complicate the situation.

With regard to energy, people like Shockwave are experts and could dredge up a bit more from somewhere. Shockwave is said to contain a small nuclear reactor. We don't really know all the details of that asteroid and the space around it.

Red Dave Prime
2011-01-27, 01:47 PM
I think you should name these "people" you speak of. The public has a right to know.

snavej
2011-01-27, 03:06 PM
I don't know all the names: I only heard about it second-hand. Nothing is proven, as far as I know. I did find this, which talks about the theories (and absurdities!):

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Size_changing

The extra mass has to go somewhere else, otherwise most people would be unable to lift gun Megatron or similar shrinking Transformers. [Law of conservation of mass.]

Purely as an illustration of the concept, Alan Moore talks about storage in other dimensions in his 'Miracleman' comic stories.

Cliffjumper
2011-01-27, 03:20 PM
The storage in Miracleman involves straight-swapping bodies via what's basically teleport; it does not involve any kind of mass reduction, Miracleman and Mike Moran are seperate entities, one of which just happens to be stored in a 'limbo' dimension when the other is out on Earth or whatever.

They do not transform into each other, they swap places (cf. Captain Marvel/Billy Batson and Captain Marvel/Rick Jones, for obvious reasons), meaning one can survive more or less independantly of each other (for instance, Johnny Bates is dead, but Kid Miracleman is still alive, just trapped in the limbo dimension with seemingly non-lethal, unrelated injuries; a similar concept was later used by Miller in The Dark Knight Strikes again, with Captain Marvel living on despite the death of Billy Batson). This would be the equivalent of Optimus Prime swapping places with a truck which his cloned brain controls. i.e. nothing like what happens.

Have you actually read Miracleman or was it just another attempt to cite something completely irrelevant in a desperate grab for the middlebrow ground?

inflatable dalek
2011-01-27, 09:17 PM
Mass shifting's been inconsistently treated by IDW pretty much from the start anyway. It started off as this amazing difficult thing that takes a minimum of normal pure Energon and causes huge atmospheric disruptions whenever it's done. And then because something Soundwave does as standard with no problems whatsoever. And that was with the same writer still working within his Masterplan(tm).

Blackjack
2011-01-28, 11:09 AM
Soundwave: superior. Continuity: inferior.

Neuronutter
2011-02-10, 07:47 PM
Transformers #16 is out, apparently. Anyone know if it was any good (as I didn't buy it)?

Anyway, the usual thing: Voice your opinion, vent your spleen, etc.

Link to a preview? (http://www.mtv.com/geek/comics/issues/?id=803) Copied from IDWForum.

(Also, how do I make this thread sticky?)

Commander Shockwav
2011-02-10, 09:24 PM
This issue makes the third somewhat competent issue in a row. Admittedly, I enjoyed this one.

For one, having seen Milne's past panel-cramped Pat Lee-ish work, I was concerned I would again get nauseous trying to decipher it. But this issue was the best from Milne I've ever seen, and the similarity to Don's work, including the angles and scale, was striking. Obviously, it was purposeful in keeping with Don, and he pulled it off. Stick with this, Alex. It works. Magnus looked kickass.

Another plus were the character interactions. Putting aside the ridiculous scenario of humans pwning Transformers repeatedly, and putting aside the ridiculous notion that somehow Earth holds a special place in the universe and so they must remain there, the character interactions were fun, especially between the trio of Brawn, Screamer, and Cracker. Not so sure about the believability of Brawn's wailing on Screamer so convincingly (then again, he is the Autobot' s 'second strongest'), but that's what I want to see in my Transformers comic. Bot on Bot action, with no human's around to interfere.

Plot-wise is, of course, where the utter failing of Costa's work has lied since day one. The story just gets sillier and sillier, something that tends to happen when you trap the Transformers on a giant mudball planet. Now, Megatron's back! For revenge! Look out humans!

Seriously, revenge? My, my, how far we've fallen from Simon's cool, collected version of Megatron. On the one hand, we're told Megatron has wised up, is back in control. So what does he do? He makes it his purpose to return to this backwater planet just because that's where a single human shot him in the face. Oh no, he's not interested anymore in the Autobots with whom he's waged war on for millenia. He wants them flesh bags to pay. Ultra Magnus, buddy, you're just gettin in the way.

You almost get the sense the thought process behind this was Costa thinking to himself "so you readers won't be convinced about the power of humans and their cocktail bombs, but by golly George, Megatron sure as hell will be!"

It's been said before, many a time, by many a fan, on many a TF message board. Do us all, and yourself, a favor IDW and get the Transformers the hell off Earth.

Give this issue an "A-". Probably the best issue since #4. Which was twelves issues ago. That's a year.

inflatable dalek
2011-02-10, 09:32 PM
(Also, how do I make this thread sticky?)

Just like that.

Neuronutter
2011-02-10, 10:27 PM
Just like that.

Cheers!


But this issue was the best from Milne I've ever seen. Magnus looked kickass.

He looked great in the preview.

Bot on Bot action, with no human's around to interfere.

Bot on Bot action, eh? Sounds kinky!

My, my, how far we've fallen from Simon's cool, collected version of Megatron.

I miss him. Time to go back and reread Escalation me thinks.

It's been said before, many a time, by many a fan, on many a TF message board. Do us all, and yourself, a favor IDW and get the Transformers the hell off Earth.

I also miss the days of Stormbringer. Heck I miss Simon's run.

Give this issue an "A-". Probably the best issue since #4. Which was twelves issues ago. That's a year.

So 16 issues in, compared to Simon and that other twats name, which run did you enjoy the most? Comparing the ongoing, AHM and the -ations.

Commander Shockwav
2011-02-11, 01:06 AM
Definitely Simon's run, and at the time, found even that mediocre.

Little did I know what waited over the horizon....

Neuronutter
2011-02-11, 01:24 AM
Definitely Simon's run, and at the time, found even that mediocre.

Little did I know what waited over the horizon....

Grass is greener and all that...

Paul053
2011-02-17, 07:56 PM
Just read this issue. This is nice. And just like shocky said, it took them a year to come back to........... this (gesture the whole thing).

Alex's art is soooo good here. So much better than what he's done to Megatron Origin and Drift. I think the point is to keep it simple and clean as his style is usually very busy especially on the background.

I'm very surprised to see that blond guy (Pennington?) is still alive. Thought he was killed by Soundwave.

Very interesting to know where and how Magnus put down Bumblebee when he transformed. As Bumblebee is laying lifelessly (plus Gears) in his truck mode with all those life support equipments (and an old man).

At the end, Prime and the crews return was very predicable. And why do I have the feeling Brawn will be killed or seriously injured next issue. Well, just my guess.

Red Dave Prime
2011-02-20, 07:48 PM
Things are tripping along. Megatron make his big return and looks great. Magnus comes across really well and the pace is nice and urgent (reminded me very much of the first three issues of devastation)

But!

The humans are just too over-powered at this point. I mean, a rabble of effectively red necks are armed with high-powered lasers? Its just a bit too much for my tastes. I dont mind the military having limited access but this is just that bit too far.

Also, Starscream is again being treacherous. I'm sorry but I just dont care and any focus on this plot point just undermines Megatrons new attitude. Why has he not blasted screamer apart by now? It just doesnt make sense.

If they wanted to do a decepticon uprising (again...) why not have Thundercracker decide he wants to lead and offer the other cons a more noble life? At least it would be different.

So, more than any other time, I feel that the end of this one is going to go a long way to deciding if its good or not.
We know there is a Megs/ Prime smackdown coming. if thats the end-game of all this, I'll be a bit disappointed

Springer85
2011-03-08, 05:58 PM
Transformers #17 reaction and discussion thread

Out March 9.

- ziggy

-----

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?gid=3023 @ Newsarama.

Anybody still reading this title?

Red Dave Prime
2011-03-09, 02:28 AM
I'm still in there. Its not been brilliant but the last few issues havent been too bad. There's a nagging feeling of being here before - this feels like the ambush that occurred in issue 7 of AHM (I think) but in real time. But enough critical expectations - I'll give it a fair chance.

One thing I will say is that Alex Milne is on fire on those preview pages. The robots look great and the humans dont look too shabby either. Great work from a guy I never rated before.

Also props to the Soundwave-Magnus cover - great stuff even if it probably has no relation to the actual plotline.

Commander Shockwav
2011-03-10, 01:15 AM
Hahahaa! Soundwave! Hahahaha!

Ahem, okay.

Gotta give props to Milne. He has never impressed me before, but these last two issues he has blown me away with his Figueroa-esque style. Where did he get this from?

So anyway, things get maybe a little more interesting plot wise, but trying to squeeze out an interesting story after 25 years that has humans as it's basis when it comes to Transformers is like, to quote John Candy, trying to play Pick-Up-Sticks with your * cheeks. Ain't going to happen.

Anyway, if Costa were trapped in a cage with a bunch of hungry lions and the only way out would be to write a decent human-focused Transformers story where 1) humans must be the focus and 2) the Transformers can't leave Earth, I guess he does a pretty good job with what he's got.

But unless there's something about the way IDW treats their employees, this isn't the case. We are being willingly served up a full human-based platter here, and Costa is trying valiantly to make it palatable.

I just don't buy the spiel that humans are necessary to ground a TF story. If human-based stories were ever good, that time has come and gone with so many different renditions and takes on their involvement in the TF universe. After a cartoon that featured humans galore, the Marvel run which featured Buster Witwicky and family, Circuit Breaker (who at least had super powers and didn't just throw Malatov cocktails into the faces of Decepticons), the Mechanic, that loon Robot Master, the Space Knights, after DW which gave us that dude that was selling bots on the black market and ended up a statue, after Furman gave us Verity and pals along with the Machination and Skywatch, isn't it time to retire the humans and give us what we really want? For G.B. Blackrock's sake, let the human's rest in peace!

And what's the surest way to make sure a TF survives? Shoot em in the face! They're guaranteed to come back.

Hahahaha! Soundwave! Hahahaha!

Sorry. Loved that part.

Give it a "C+". Take the humans out and the plot would just be so much better. It just gets harder and harder to ignore them.

Auntie Slag
2011-03-10, 07:27 AM
Humans are fine when the plot handles them well. Professor Morris for instance always made for a good story, even if he was only in a couple.

Perhaps rather insignificant, but that army guy in Snarl's issue of Dinobot Hunt was very mature and believable.

Moreover, I like Sam in the live action TF movies. If it were only about the Transformers I don't think I would enjoy them as much.

And I like the idea of hurling a molotov in a robots face, nothing wrong with that.

Commander Shockwav
2011-03-10, 09:29 PM
But that's my point, humans have been done well before. Why must they continue to stand as an integral part of the story to keep in "grounded" when most fans prefer not to see them?

Auntie Slag
2011-03-10, 11:03 PM
Who are these 'most fans' you speak of? How do you know that so many people don't want humans to feature in Transformers stories?

You say the time has come and gone for humans in a TF story and yet Sam Witwicky is a very fun character to my mind, and he is the equal (in the first film arguably) to any of the Transformers themselves. I wouldn't like it half as much without the humans in it.

For my part, I really don't care whether humans feature in any more comics or not, but its fairly clear that they're vital in the movies, the sheer stupidity of Sam and Simmonds far outweighs the twins antics for example.

I would argue that there are plenty of good stories out there with humans as the focus in a Transformers story. Just because the comic book writers haven't managed it doesn't mean it should be given up on.

You could assign Freeway to protect Charlie Sheen. Smokescreen could spend his free time assisting pontoon players in a casino scam. Hound could go climbing in the rockies with a small bunch of college guys and end up having a dramatic fight amidst crumbling hillside against Skywarp and Frenzy. I don't know...

Impactor, Greenpeace and the Japanese whaling commission.

Humans have got plenty of mileage.

Commander Shockwav
2011-03-11, 01:44 AM
Aliens and other races in the universe have even more mileage. Transformers should tap that potential instead of languishing on Earth.

And I agree about the movies, where humans are pretty much essential due to budgetary reasons. I'm only talking about the comic book here.

Granted, maybe if the writers were stronger, they could do a good job of it with humans. But we don't have strong writers. We have mediocre writers at best right now, who are somehow convinced that Spike and freakin Campologno are kickass characters to feature in the story.

Blackjack
2011-03-11, 12:54 PM
Disagree with the bit about aliens. IDW did that with the ugly things in Spotlight Drift, in Defiance, in Spotlight Wheelie, and never do I feel sorry for the aliens who died, nor do I ever liked an alien character. I mean, those ugly Mecannibals, giant women, and slimy Jabba the Hutt lookalike are more interesting than the likes of Buster Witwicky or Professor Morris or G.B. Blackrock?

Granted, there are lots of stupid human characters out there. The humans in AHM, IDW's Spike Witwicky, the Animated villains, Skywatch, almost every other human in the ongoing, the Armada kids, the Cybertron kids, Koji whatshisface, Circuit Breaker, the bloody Neo Knights, Bomber Bill, IDW's Spike Witwicky, Lazarus, IDW's Spike Witwicky...

But there are also good human ones out there. Sam Witwicky, Simmons, the soldiers and Galloway from the live-action movies. Sari also proved not as annoying as I'd thought she would be. Ditto for the Prime-era kids. And Verity and Hunter. Unnecessary, perhaps, but good characters nevertheless.

I'd argue about the merits of humans.

But I'll never argue that Costa's recent work with them are any good. He's finally got the Transformers bit nailed down after the disastrous International Inci****ingdent thing, but the humans are still BLAH and BLAH. Unlike Furman's humans, who are unobstructive if they aren't essential to the plot -- I dare you to recall the name of the Machination strike team in the -ions series. Can't remember them? Good. Because they are there to be forgotten. -- Costa's humans try to get their way in front of the proverbial camera all the time.

I mean, issue eight. Spike kills a Decepticon with a bottle of acid. What.

Bloody Skywatch is immortal, damn it! I thought there would be some credibility by having Dead End run Pennington down, but no. He survives. Why do we even want him to survive when someone like Scrapper or Quake or Dreadwind gets killed off?

Red Dave Prime
2011-03-11, 02:36 PM
I thought there would be some credibility by having Dead End run Pennington down, but no. He survives. Why do we even want him to survive when someone like Scrapper or Quake or Dreadwind gets killed off?

Very good point that. It is Transformers on the title after all.

I do prefer the humans in the story overall even if they arent done in the way I would like at present. I really liked the idea that Infiltration (and the first live movie in a manner) presented the transformers - hugely powerful but scarce in number so they have to use espionage and deception to take over worlds. It was nicely different, gave great scope for a mature scenario where humanity has as a whole to face a threat from within (thought it had great parrallells to how Countrys deal with terrorism from within their own populace). True, things diluted quickly but for the first few issues my hopes were high.

And as much fun as aliens will be, I'd imagine the only ones who will get any great empathy from the reader are those that would have been human-like anyway - so why move on.

Finally, I also prefer my Transformers to have Alt forms that are disguses, not secondary modes of attack. The earth based stories help carry this scenario.

Anyway... Back to the comic at hand. Its not bad, but anyone else get the feeling that this has turned into an episode of the cartoon again. Not so much in what happens but the way everything resolves itself. In the early parts the megatron guns landed in mass amounts in other countrys outside the us but the feeling I get from the resolution here is like an episode of the cartoon where Megatrons latest plan is foiled - Damn and Blast. Would have been much more fun if Megs had presented an army of gun wielding humans to take on prime. The end with Jazz is also a huge over reaction and goes against both Jazz's supposed love of other life forms and the cool and calm chartacter presented in AHM.

Soundwave? Well, Hardhead did take out Nightbeat in a similar manner so its not that bad. Ditto for Many a Con in LSOTW

Artwork on the other hand is great - still cant believe alex had it in him. Dare I say that he is the best of IDWs current artists to draw humans? Only Su betters him to my mind.

Commander Shockwav
2011-03-11, 02:51 PM
I see the potential not so much in alien races per se, but in another race of warrior robots.

I disagree with needing humans to provide that, well, human aspect to the story. The Transformers themselves are more human than robot in their personality, so you can easily empathize with them. You don't need humans for the story to be more human. You just need good writing.

And you guys keep brining up the humans in the movie, which I thought were very good too, so there's no point of contention there. Sam was actually one of the stronger characters in the first movie. The second movie, well, nothing could save that craptacular piece of garbage.

Red Dave Prime
2011-03-11, 05:58 PM
I dont think its a strict case of providing the humanity through their character. Its more helping to create the spectacle of the robots themselves. After all without the humans to provide scale they are just big robots. Having humans reacting to them gives them the "special" feel in my opinion. Thats not to say that everything needs to be human centric. But a balanced approach with the humans help ground the main arcs isnt a bad thing.

And saying that, I would also point out the biggest problem with costa is that in making humans just as dangerous as a transformer he has undermined that point. Might as well set it in space with a race of aliens called costaites.

Paul053
2011-03-13, 06:14 AM
Huh? Prime was missed coloring in page 11? Are we back to G1 cartoon? Megatron's master plan got blown up by one easy obvious little thing. I think we are really back to G1 cartoon. :lol:

Hugely disappointed in this issue, human is not a problem. The writers just didn't do them well. Sometimes having humans is a good temporarily relief among all the metals, and a good distraction, too if do it well. Many times when we were watching G1 cartoons and the movies with human mixing with robots, my wife said she was scared because she felt humans are so "fragile" comparing to those bots. That makes sense to realize Autobots are here to protect (when I told her about the headmaster thing, her first impression was "oh...... that's sick"). This protect-destroy rule runs well and long and now Costa actually brings a new idea to tip the balance and destroy the entire philosophy. It feels could be hard to clean up now but also kind of interesting to see how things turn out. Again, only if the writers do it right.


Jazz, oh Jazz. When did he become Hot Rod..........

Praise Alex. He is now really amazing.

Neuronutter
2011-03-15, 05:32 PM
Soundwave? Well, Hardhead did take out Nightbeat in a similar manner so its not that bad. Ditto for Many a Con in LSOTW


Well, for someone who's sorta been looking forward to this issue and trying to avoid spoilers I think I know almost everything that happens, including to Soundwave, from reading on message boards. That'll learn me!

Man, did Nightbeats death in SL Hardhead sting. That was really powerful and, to my mind, one of the best issues of Furmans run.

Red Dave Prime
2011-03-15, 11:21 PM
Shit man, sorry about that. Honestly, I figured very few are reading this so didnt need think to spoiler. (is it just me and Commander Shockwave that are actually paying for this)

As for Furmans work, I'd agree with your thinking. The first two issues in revelations were both crackers. Wonderfully drawn, excellent character work and well paced to advance the main plots and still work as individual issues in themselves.

Auntie Slag
2011-03-15, 11:28 PM
If we're going down the road of spoilers would you mind telling me what happened to Jazz? i.e. the whole 'when did Jazz become Hot Rod' comment?

Is this a reference to Jazz getting shot through the chest too, or is he Mr. super agent? In which case why not, as that's his specialty (and way before Hot Rod called it, too).

Maybe you can hide it in a white spoiler box for other readers. I'm unlikely to buy the comic so I don't mind :)

(more likely to buy the TPB than anything).

Red Dave Prime
2011-03-15, 11:38 PM
Jazz acts completely rashly and blasts a human armed with one of the megatron guns to save some autobots. Its so out of character. And silly. Especially as the human was starting to stand down.

Hope that helps.

Auntie Slag
2011-03-15, 11:46 PM
Ah cool, thanks RDP.:smokin:

Neuronutter
2011-03-16, 12:19 PM
Shit man, sorry about that. Honestly, I figured very few are reading this so didnt need think to spoiler. (is it just me and Commander Shockwave that are actually paying for this)

As for Furmans work, I'd agree with your thinking. The first two issues in revelations were both crackers. Wonderfully drawn, excellent character work and well paced to advance the main plots and still work as individual issues in themselves.

No worries. I was daft enough to go on the IDW board before this, so I knew most things, but finding out about Jazz and Soundwave has spoiled the issue quite a bit. That'll teach me for not waiting to read the issue first. Heh!

Neuronutter
2011-03-18, 12:14 AM
OK, read it, kinda enjoyed it. I'm still not seeing where Costa's going and after 17 issues I'd expect to have some idea. As for the rest of it, it was fine. But Megatron mind controlling humans to turn them against the Autobots still seems too much like an episode of the cartoon. The Megs of the ations would never bother with such petty games. And the cop decides the nutcases are right and the 'Bots need to die? Also what was Magnus doing to Soundwave's foot? And I agree with Shockwav's assessment of Soundwave's assassination. Bloody hilarious. And I thought the whole Jazz thing was really stupid. I just sat there groaning.

The art was great, Milne's really improved lately. I thought the colouring was very flat though, especially page 8, and that detracted from the art.

Unfortunately I still feel like I'm waiting for things to get good, on the promise that it will, 17 issues later. Now I'm past the point of wanting good. I want it to be great and I can't really see that happening. Oh well.

Paul053
2011-03-18, 01:27 AM
OK, read it, kinda enjoyed it. I'm still not seeing where Costa's going and after 17 issues I'd expect to have some idea. As for the rest of it, it was fine. But Megatron mind controlling humans to turn them against the Autobots still seems too much like an episode of the cartoon.

I think IDW is trying to make a Transformers soap opera.

About Alex, here are two comments on his deviantART about people praising his recent good work.

i'm glad you like the book. just one thing. I'm not Don. (someone double quoted him "DON")

not that i'm aware of. i just following the design that Don came up with

What do you think? Why do I feel people say he is even better after following Don's design and style? And I sort of have the same feeling. :|

Commander Shockwav
2011-03-18, 09:23 PM
Because he is better following Don. His other stay-puff marshmellow work sucks.

Neuronutter
2011-04-13, 04:38 PM
Transformers #18 is out this week so here's your standard, all-purpose, voice-your-opinion, thread. Enjoy!

Commander Shockwav
2011-04-14, 12:52 AM
Unfortunately, as this story unfolds, the failings inherent in it become that much more obvious.

Costa has tried to give the Transformers a more serious tone, tried to inject deeper, more mature elements in the plot. The idea that in some way humans are more advanced than these metallic visitors from space is an interesting one. But it's one of those gambles you take that, if not brilliantly written and executed correctly, like a ballerina performing a triple axle, could land you flat on your ass. Well. Ass? Meet floor. Floor? Meet ass.

Why does this plot element land us on our derrières? Because Costa has decided to make that special quality that elevates humans above robots, of all things, a technological one. Can you say 'misfire'? The last thing humans exceed the Transformers at is technology, yet Prime is quick to point out to Megatron that "look how special the humans are! They made a better gun in just three years whereas I've been toting this piece of crap weapon around for millenia!" Never has the word "duh" been so appropriate as in that moment.

If you want to showcase the superiority of humans over machines, you just don't go that route. You focus on something we have that the Transformers might yearn for. We've seen this featured in Budiansky's writing, in Furman's writing. Even they, back in the 80's, knew that to make mankind shine in the face of super advanced warring robots capable of teleportation and interstellar travel, you focus on one thing. The heart and soul. The humanity of our race. That's why that issue featuring Thundercracker worked so well. Because what intrigued him, what lured him in, was our being human. Why did Costa let go of that?

I guess this was just too ambitious an idea. It's one thing to come up with clever ideas. It's another entirely to bring it to life in the pages of a comic.

Beyond this failure lay others. The showdown between Prime and Megatron was just disappointing. It irks me that Megatron has suddenly garnered an infatuation with employing lowly humans as a primary weapon. It's so out of character, clashing not just with the Megatron of other previously established continuities, but with IDW Megatron himself. He literally pulls up a seat to watch events unfold. Like a Sunday night football game, all he needs is some Kremzeek and he's good to go.

I think I can honestly say that this version of both Megatron and Optimus Prime are the most annoying I've yet to see. Optimus Prime has been an epic failure of a character since issue #1. First, Prime's passive, almost passively aggressive, really. The next issue he's manic. Who exactly is Optimus Prime? I want to know! To me, he's almost like the once-wise grandfather suffering Alzheimer's. You almost get the sense that the other Autobots are following his orders out of pity due to his suffering early onset cybernetic dementia. I mean, his wires may literally be crossing.

Are we really going to continue this charade of Bumblebee calling the shots when the entire issue it's Prime barking orders at everyone? Has it ever felt for even one moment that Bumblebee has been leadership material? Again, it's almost senile the way Prime defers to Bumblebee in some instances, and could give a rat's ass about him at others.

Prime doesn't want to believe that Spike killed, wait for it...wait for it.... a Decepticon. Yet in the issue prior he proceeds to blow the head off of Soundwave. Guess he was confident that wasn't a kill shot, huh? If that's not a kill shot, what is?

This story is all over the place. It's been 18 issues with only two or three I would say were strong reads. I just want to see this stop.

The word to describe this ongoing is "confused".

Not to be entirely negative, Milne's art again shines. That one page with Prime crashing through the ceiling with Shockers in the background aghast almost makes up for all the cluttered art in Megatron:Origin. Alex has come a long way since then. He's improving leaps and bounds, which is exciting.

Give it a "D+". Art is the only thing worth praising here.

Neuronutter
2011-04-14, 11:53 AM
Good review. But it's spelled derrière. And aggressive has two g's. Still checking your work. Heh!

Commander Shockwav
2011-04-14, 03:25 PM
Donkey chains. That's German for "thank you".

Red Dave Prime
2011-04-18, 09:09 PM
Always thught it was donkey shame...

Will pick this up Wednesday I hope. Curious to how much of a cluster **** it turns into.

Commander Shockwav
2011-04-19, 03:11 AM
I don't think others will find it as flawed as I do. Certain things about it bother me so much, it's hard for me to enjoy whatever good is in it.

Blackjack
2011-04-19, 11:39 AM
While Shockwav and I disagree about Infestation, I agree wholeheartedly for this shite. It's so banal and repetitive and going nowhere.

Milne's art has improved, that much I will say, but there are bits where he flutters, like that moment when Magnus apologizes early on in the beginning.

The bit of leadership tug-of-war between OP and Bee is a whole load of bull crap, that bit I need to emphasize again and again.

Paul053
2011-04-19, 04:29 PM
Read it last night. Totally not enjoying it like previous few issues.

(Do I need to SPOIL this?)

First, the fact that BB is still a leader is really, really meaningless and irritating. Costa shouldn't even bring that up initially.

Second, how come Prime is still a cry baby. The first few issues I can understand that. He lost Ironhide and blah, blah, blah. And I mentioned before I was hoping the return of Megatron will be a wake up call for Prime (and for Costa), but no. He cries even louder. There are times Prime may lose patience but choking Megatron at why you never die thing is just so out of character. Well, can Costa even get the character right? He failed so many of them.

Third, Shocky was so right on the human technology side but put this aside, the Costa version of robot binding to human is also meaningless and confusing. So Prime is like "okay humans, we Autobots are protecting you now so you cannot kill or harm any robots even a Decepticon who are trying to kill you". Where did he come out things like that or what makes him can think like that? And since when did Prime trust humans that much? There are tons of humans out there trying to kill any robots on sight. They watched the news and why he still keep that trust. If Prime really trust humans, they really don't need to be in disguise initially, right?

Then Megatron is back for humans and now toying Prime's mind?

These whole things are now made to be confused and not making logical sense. Sorry, I may be out of line but I'm just not happy reading it.

Red Dave Prime
2011-04-26, 10:16 AM
This issue doesnt read too badly until a second after you finish a page and your mind starts pointing out the massive problems in the concept.

Start with the plus points: Milnes art still holding up well. Also kudos for Shockwaves nod to ore 13 ( I guess thats how they closed up that arc). And the kinetic Harpoon idea is nice enough...

Now the Silly stuff: The kinetic Harpoon, going by Megatrons own description, isn't actually more powerful than Megatrons new super-charged shoulder cannon. Also, havent Transformers had the ability to bombard planets to complete destruction from space anyway? Finally on this, are all the other cons destroyed in the blast? They're not nearly as powerful as all new megs.

Soundwave however didn't die despite a huge hole in his head. I could spoiler that but I know we all saw this coming. This really irked me. If they wanted Soundwave to survive why not have him shot in the chest? A head shot like that should be final. As it is, we cant expect anyone to die because all damage is repairable. Hell, looks like Hot rod is alive too...

Super-powerful Megs seems a bit too powerful at this point. Especially if you think back to the issue with the decepticons feasting on each other. It seems too unbelievable that they could build a Body which is that God-level. And seeing how powerful he is, why they just shackle him at the end instead of removing his spark (or just having Omega transform and crush him anyway) seems more than a little stupid. Especially given Primes actions at the start of the issue (see below)

And while we are on this point, Megatron is the wrong choice for his role in this story. I kinda liked the general idea (not the execution though) that someone would mess with primes devotion to the human race but Megatron is not the guy. Maybe bombshell would have been a better head-****.

But the main silly of this issue is what follows:
Prime wants revenge, goes to kill Megatron,
Fails, but Megs beats him senseless and surrenders (?) Then torments Prime over the fact that Spike executed Scrapper (which leaves Prime all confused) - despite the fact that Jazz just blasted a human and that prime has already killed a human back in escalation and that prime was all keen on killing

Megatron at the start of the issue!

Its just too silly to let slide. I dont mind a few plot problems in general but so much here fails under the smallest bit of thinking that they all add up and become one giant problem. And yes, it's a much better arc than the previous one but what could have been worse then international incident?

Look IDW, in Milne you have a decent enough artist. And costas not too bad at writing in general. But can you at least have someone with a larger view of the history of your own comic to give it a quick read-through before giving it the ok so that it all makes sense to the people who are funding it?

Blackjack
2011-04-26, 12:53 PM
Exactly. It holds up to the first reading. 'Huh. Not as terrible as it could have been.' then come the kinetic harpoon shit, and you go 'WTF? WTF? Double-You Tee EFFFF?' when the whole Prime-Megatron shit comes up. How Prime refuses to believe Spike has killed Scrapper, how they don't ****ing kill Megatron right away, how... well, just about everything.

Agreed with Megatron not being the type to mess with people's heads. Bombshell, maybe. Or Venom. Or even Soundwave.

Also pissed off at the dead-not-dead status of Soundwave. Hot Rod's obviously not dead, not with the Matrix hanging off him. Sunstreaker's back. Ironhide's back. Galvatron's back. Even that Penning-whatshisname survived being ran over by Dead End when his character doesn't even contribute anything to the story.

NOBODY'S GONNA DIE UNLESS THEY CAME OUT AFTER 1986, DANGNABIT. Or unless their name is Gears.

Who wants to bet Scrapper will be revived within the year? Making Devastator Mark Two as the excuse, no doubt.

I keep ranting here because I can't be arsed to summarize the issue in a formal review.

Red Dave Prime
2011-04-26, 01:02 PM
The goofs section of this issues review may just drive you insane Blackjack

(nice one on the reviews by the way, always look forward to reading them)

Neuronutter
2011-04-26, 11:14 PM
Despite myself, I actually enjoyed this. I thought it was fun, and well written, like things were finally pulling together, if only a little. I really didn't want to like it and I still think this version of Megs is odd, but the effect on Prime is undeniable. Plus the art is fantastic and I even thought the artist was Don at several points, high praise indeed considering how little I like Milne's art in general.

So overall, not bad. An improvement and maybe, just maybe, headed in the right direction. I can see from the other comments though I'm in the minority.

Neuronutter
2011-04-26, 11:16 PM
Exactly. It holds up to the first reading. 'Huh. Not as terrible as it could have been.'

I'll have to reread it and see if my opinion changes.


Agreed with Megatron not being the type to mess with people's heads. Bombshell, maybe. Or Venom. Or even Soundwave.

Yeah, it is a little odd.


NOBODY'S GONNA DIE UNLESS THEY CAME OUT AFTER 1986, DANGNABIT. Or unless their name is Gears.

Poor Nightbeat!

Red Dave Prime
2011-04-28, 08:30 PM
If they can revive Soundwave, then they can revive Scrapper so really, Spike did feck all.