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View Full Version : [New RPG] Transformers vs. Humans


Warcry
2011-01-26, 04:23 AM
It's going to come up eventually, so...

How much damage do you suppose humans would be able to do to a Transformer?

And conversely, how much damage could a Transformer do to human vehicles, buildings or military equipment?

Aero Blade
2011-01-26, 04:33 AM
Will all depend upon specific mechs, but I think the movie had it pretty much on par. Largely the transformers will be able to stomp/smash/blow up most human stuff far easier than the humans can them, but I doubt it'll take long before the humans start to figure out how to work around some things. Humans can probably take on one or two mechs if prepared, but they'd not be able to stand up to the whole of Autobot/Decepticon forces.

optimusskids
2011-01-26, 06:57 AM
hmm I'd imagine that those with a military background would be armoured and therefore less vulnerable than those with a civilian background.

Blaster
2011-01-26, 07:11 AM
Go 80s cartoon style.

HUMANS CAN'T TOUCH US!

Blackjack
2011-01-26, 07:57 AM
Movieverse. When the TFs have just arrived, even a single Transformer, what with being unexpected and stuff, can blow up an entire squad of humans.

But when the humans have recovered and begin pulling out all the stops, they can begin to hurt the TFs. Worse is to come if they reverse-engineer TF tech, which then would become sort of like IDW Ongoing or ROTF.

If little kids barely hitting puberty can knock down Transformers, though, I quit.

Clogs
2011-01-26, 01:34 PM
Well, obviously a huge metallic warrior of death will blat just about anything on Earth and it's bwah-hah-hah all the way.

The Autobots might pull their punches, try to cripple weapons rather than hurt people, surrender or flee if the chance of killing is too high. That won't be the Decepticon mindset, since war machines will know it's more practical to take out both the weapon and the operator and the command centre.

As for humans hurting TFs? Very little chance of causing major problems for the really big hitters; depending on the ordnance, they could be damaged, but still function. Smaller TFs will, potentially, suffer badly given the type of attack they endure.

Reverse-engineering will have to be something we decide on at some point.

tahukanuva
2011-01-26, 03:24 PM
Yeah, I don't see say, Skywarp being too bothered by a local armory. Maybe annoying enough to make him leave, but wouldn't do any serious harm. Hound, however, would probably be a bit worse off.

Only in a super-surprise attack would I expect a Transformer to wipe out an entire military base and leave unscathed.

Aero Blade
2011-01-26, 04:03 PM
The reverse engineering I agree would happen eventually, but it'd probably be late in the game, certainly not something to expect early on. Humans will be scrambling to survive at first, then start to figure things out to defend, then maybe to retaliate.

It'd probably start as scientists scavanging bits and pieces left over from battles, steadily working their way up the line until they work out enough things to attempt capturing a transformer (which will probably wind up being an Autobot, since they're not as likely to kill the woud-be captors). You know where it goes from there. ;)

Blackjack
2011-01-26, 05:40 PM
Or the humans might discover a discarded TF weapon. Hey, if you're in a war you don't keep track of every weapon yoy have, right? I mean, like, when humans do a war they don't expect badgers and bears that come across a discarded handgun to be able to replicate them and hunt down humans with them.

I've always thought of an analog like fighting a bee's nest. A human can destroy a bee's nest and kill all the bees relatively easily as long as he's got the equipment (bug spray) and the element of surprise. But if the bees round up and begin stinging you all over, you'll be an idiot not to leave. It won't kill you unless you have allergics, but it hurts and itches.

Again, not a perfect analog. Bees can't reverse-engineer bug spray to kill us.

optimusskids
2011-01-26, 06:18 PM
I expect the humans to suffer it would be the equivalent of Modern Tech versus flintlock muskets . Also given the range of transformers weapons it would be an interesting challenge to reverse engineer weaponry from it scientists would have to much diverse data.

Crosshairs and Doublecross must wake up in a cold sweat given the lack of standardisation.

I imagine given the limited supplies they'll have brought with them weapons would be kept track of it's not as if they get get another one from the factory.

On a tangent it would be interesting to emphasise that it would give humans a slight advantage and move away from energon being a magic substance used from everything from a food stuff to ammunition. Transformers would have to conserve resources and engineer replacements from the local tech base plus what they have on board their ships. When ammunition for Starscream null rays s gone its gone and he'll have to have standard lasers like everyone else.

Warcry
2011-01-26, 07:06 PM
I've never understood the idea behind humans reverse-engineering TF tech, to be honest. If the Transformers are so advanced that humans can't hurt them without using Transformer tech, then trying to reverse-engineer it would be akin to an engineer from the 1500s trying to build their own F-22. They wouldn't even understand what they were looking at, let alone what to do with it.

I expect the humans to suffer it would be the equivalent of Modern Tech versus flintlock muskets.
Yeah, pretty much. Our weapons would be inferior, no doubt, but they should still be able to do something against Transformers. The watchword for the human armies would probably be 'overkill', but I doubt Transformers would be able to just shrug off an artillery barrage or a strafing run from a fighter jet.

Small arms probably wouldn't do much other than breaking windows/scratching paint, but shoulder-mounted RPGs or heavy machine guns are going to hurt some (how much would depend on the Transformer's Endurance rating). Tank rounds, artillery or missiles from a fighter jet would hurt a lot, but probably won't kill a TF unless they take repeated hits. Cruise missiles or large airborne bombs could probably cripple or outright kill with a direct hit, but then you'd be talking about serious collateral damage against your own civilian population. That's how I see it, anyway.

Aero Blade
2011-01-26, 07:17 PM
Agreed with most of the above, but looks like I need to add a bit to my reverse-engineering bit. Clearly they humans would be able to hurt them with a big enough gun (I have my doubts anyone could stand up to a nuke), but we strike the problem of massive collateral damage.

They way I see reverse-engineering being employed is by those wanting to find a way to neutralize the transformers without the chance of going into a big incident. If you figure out how they work, you can figure out more subtle ways to incapacitate or kill them. Those that are analying the tech to reverse-engineer , it would be less of a weapon-making technique and more of looking for transformer-equivalent biological warfare weaknesses. Why build tons of bombs and blow up your continent to get rid of them, when a virus can shut them down and leave you plenty of spare parts to use for your own purposes? The bees don't have to send their entire hive to repell an intruder if they can figure out how to make someone alergic to a single sting.

Blackjack
2011-01-26, 07:26 PM
Agreed with all of the above.

Can we make a solemn oath not to use the nuke threat thing used in Dreamwave's first mini, AHM and IDW ongoing's second arc?

Selkadoom
2011-03-18, 02:08 AM
Go 80s cartoon style.

HUMANS CAN'T TOUCH US!

I don't know Spike did a decent job.

Heinrad
2011-03-18, 04:52 AM
Could humans reverse engineer TF tech? Ehhhhhh.......... not to the level of building Walther P-38 sized fusion cannons, certainly.

Let's take Kup's musket laser rifle as an example because I happen to have looked over at the figure when I started typing). Ignoring the fact that it's illogical to us(unless we all missed those scenes of Kup using a ramrod to shove a little ball of light down the barrel of his rifle after each shot...... That being said, did we actually see him shoot that much? And what did Recoil think?) as we perceive the musket type of weapon. It could be a reference to how the energy cell is loaded in.

Starting to wander..... anyway, it's basically just a standard, if old, laser rifle. In the broadest technical terms, there isn't a huge amount of development between a musket and a modern rifle. Trigger gets pulled, power ignites, slug is flung forward. We've already cracked laser technology. If Kup dropped his rifle and humans recovered and studied it, what they'd likely get out of it is a better understanding of power. Given a few decades, we might get a vehicle portable one(unless we luck out and Wheeljack gives up an ultra compact nuclear reactor or something), but the best our science would get are hints.

Blackjack
2011-03-18, 12:19 PM
I've always thought the only way humans could realistically battle Transformers is that if they have Transformer backing behind them, like the Machination in IDW comics (the original Skywatch didn't, which is why they were stupid. The second Skywatch are total jackasses and they don't count.). Say, some rogue Decepticon -- Scorponok or Tarantulas or whomever -- gets to work with a bunch of rogue human military unit/terrorist unit akin to MECH or Machination or Cobra, it wouldn't be much of a leap for them to share weaponry to them. Guys as crazy as the 'Cons would surely do that.

While the Autobots? 'WE HAF WITNESSED YOUR HU-MAN CAPACITY FOR WAR. EET WILL SURELY DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD.'

Brave Maximus
2011-03-18, 01:52 PM
I have to agree with Blackjack's viewing on it.
More mercinary minded Cons could certianly "share" tech with humans in return for resources, labs, energy, etc.
Hell, these Cons could even set up factories for them - with fail safes of course - to get what they want.
Some of the less... moral countries, or those with a legit enemy (China, North Korea, Taliban Run Afgahnistan, Russia, etc) - would be willing to give them quite a bit.
I'd say that North Korea and Russia would be the two most legit targets for something like this - with Russia being the better choice. Old War Dogs looking to regain the glory of Mother Russia, to have the world quake at the name of the Red Menace again. And they have the resources.

On the other side of it, Autobot-allied countries could actually find themselves at a serious dis-advantage. Autobots would be unwilling to share on that kind of level, but they still have to fight a signifigantly advanced opponent. Furthermore - I can't imagine the Bots wanting to get involved in human warfare.

That being said, I don't thing current technology is going to leave us defenceless against Transformers Tech.
I think the movies got this one right, actually. Most Transformer armour, while practically impervious to most small arms fire, would be vulnerable to Artillary and Mortar fire. Vehicle mounted Missles, even Bazookas and RPG's could do damage to most Light Armoured Transformers. Those built for war, and Transformers like Megs, Optimus, Grimlock, etc, would pretty much appear indistructable. For those guys, though, just need to get creative. A shape/Limpit charge placed in a joint could do some serious damage. Optics, and other soft targets are always good choices ;)

Humans would just need to step up some forms of military Tech. High Explosive Incindiary (HEI), High Explosive Armour Piercing (HEAP) High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) rounds would need to be miniturized for squad use, As well as looking into things like Rail Weapons (We've been using the technology for decades to propel linear or Bullet trains. Just need to make it work as a weapon system. Not even megs would want to stand in the way of a 20lb Metal slug travelling at Mach 2).

My question is: How much human action do we want in this RPG? Are humans going to be an annoying side thing that crops up every once and a while, OR is this going to be like the Movie-verse, or more? Humans and Transformers working side by side on a regular basis?

Springer85
2011-03-18, 09:39 PM
I could see Tarantulas supplying humans with some form of Cybertronian tech to possibly further his own agenda :glance:

I would at least like some human involvement. Jazz will kinda need it and I have some ideas with Volks and him interacting with humans. :)

Brave Maximus
2011-03-18, 09:50 PM
Personally, I'm all for it.
I think it would be awesome if we could pick one or two additional Human characters and run with them.
See how they interact in the "real world" and having TF's present in their lives.
That being said, I think it should just be regular humans. No superheroes, no mages or what not. Psychics... on a limited level, I can see...

But considering how I'm setting Ginrai up... I'm all for humans.

Second question, though:
Is how to limit them. I think if it were opened up in general, we'd see a lot of "Snake eyes" and other strangeness....

Warcry
2011-03-19, 12:56 AM
Hell, these Cons could even set up factories for them - with fail safes of course - to get what they want.
This I doubt. It would probably be impossible to produce Cybertronian technology with human factories. Or rather, it would be possible but first you would have to teach the humans to build the machines they'd need to run the factories, and the machines they'd need to make those machines, repeated ad nauseum and all the while making sure you don't give away the physics behind any it, lest you vault human science forward a few thousand years inside of a night or two. Probably a lot more trouble than it's worth, in other words.

I think it would be awesome if we could pick one or two additional Human characters and run with them.
Personally, I'd like to see humans get involved in the story when we get to Earth. How they get involved depends a lot, I think, on what's going on when the Transformers get there.

In a previous thread we decided we wanted the Transformers to show up in the near- to mid-future. opskids also suggested having a major conflict going on when they do. He was thinking of arriving in the past and having the Transformers interrupt World War One...but what if they arrive in the 2030s and interrupt World War Three?

Is how to limit them. I think if it were opened up in general, we'd see a lot of "Snake eyes" and other strangeness....
Well, since Snake Eyes fought in Vietnam he'd be in his mid-70s at the youngest by 2030... :glance:

tahukanuva
2011-03-19, 01:52 AM
Don't Matter; it's Snake-Eyes.

Blackjack
2011-03-19, 02:48 AM
Little question: When we do get to Earth, and some of the players decide to pick up humans, will it count against the eight-character-roster?

Personally I think that the independent minded, ah, salesmen among the Transformers like Swindle or Hubcap might deal with the humans, exchanging rudimentary weapons like 'mere' laser pistols for oil or stuff. I mean, what harm could that do, right?

Until some rogue Decepticon like, say, Tarantulas, comes by and teaches the humans how to properly use those big oversized laser pistols...

Warcry
2011-03-19, 04:17 AM
Little question: When we do get to Earth, and some of the players decide to pick up humans, will it count against the eight-character-roster?
Unhelpful answer: maybe. ;)

Do we want it to? Or do we want to create a separate quota for frail, useless flesh creatures human characters?

Blackjack
2011-03-19, 05:19 AM
Unhelpful answer: maybe. ;)

Do we want it to? Or do we want to create a separate quota for frail, useless flesh creatures human characters?

Suggestion time, then...

NPCs?

I know, I know, we've talked about this before but maybe the staff members can NPC human characters -- the obligatory Presidents/Prime Ministers of USA, Russia, North Korea and whatnot, the obligatory terrorists and stuff...

If we use/need them.

And, say, if a player like me wants to play, oh, I don't know... Agent Simmons? Galloway? Gee Bee Blackrock? Sam/Spike Witwicky? Verity Carlo? One of the more 'major' humans, it might count against their roster, or probably a separate quota of one to two humans.

Or something...

optimusskids
2011-03-19, 10:32 AM
The thing is because we're starting afresh there's nothing to stop George Smedley Air Conditioning Salesman from Oaktree Nebraska or whoever from becoming a major character

Springer85
2011-03-19, 04:19 PM
Don't Matter; it's Snake-Eyes.

Agreed. :up:

Brave Maximus
2011-03-19, 05:46 PM
Personally, I'd set a seperate quota for Humans.
Say 2 additional characters, maybe max 1 fan-made, 1 .... "existing"?

As for when:

What about arriving as tensions are mounting/Brush-fire wars are raging. But trying to stay undercover... until full out war breaks out... and then it becomes almost impossible.
I mean, if you have someone like megs allying with say Russia, or even renegades, it could turn the tide of war, really easily ("Hey Megs, we'll give you all the production of oil from one well in Siberia.... if you blow up LA...."

Megatron connects to the black hole, fires 4 or 5 shots at LA... returns to collect his oil.)

Groups like the EDF or NEST or... some spiffily new name we come up with would become crack teams designed to keep TF's out of the war.

Again, I'm just tossing ideas out. But this is how I always pictured TF's interacting on Earth. Decepticons wouldn't care about radiation, civillian casualties, collateral damage. All their after is resources.

tahukanuva
2011-03-19, 08:10 PM
All they have been after is resources. This is a new story, though, unless I've missed something, all we know so far is that Cybertron will be uninhabitable. Maybe they'll be resource hunting on Earth, maybe they'll be prepared enough to not need to stoop to human aid. (The necessary off-world mining would likely still be running, after all.)

I dunno, diving full-on into human stuff right off really loses the whole 'robots in disguise' factor, dunnit?

Blackjack
2011-03-20, 08:47 AM
I dunno, diving full-on into human stuff right off really loses the whole 'robots in disguise' factor, dunnit?

This.

Warcry
2011-03-20, 10:49 AM
Yeah, I sort of agree with that too.

Eventually Transformers are going to be 'out' and the world is going to know about them, but I think it'll take a while before that happens because both sides will think it's in their best interests to stay hidden at least until they've put down roots.

Of course, until their cover is blown we probably won't see Transformers turning into giant metal dinosaurs or dragon-chickens or things like that -- and since most of us probably want to see that it'll have to happen eventually.

Brave Maximus
2011-03-20, 03:08 PM
I always figured humans wouldn't really come into play until the TF's were outed.

But, I also think we have to look at the level of outing. While they may not be "out" to civilians, Govenments are going to have to clue in pretty quickly - if there's any sort of combat.

Satellite and commuinications black outs, civilian reports, strange flashes in the night, GIANT FOOT PRINTS in the earth, battle scortches, that sort of thing - while world Governments are going to start to clue in, unless there's some sort of war-pact signed by Autobots and Decepticons to keep their fighting contained to isolated parts of the pacific and the large deserts of Asia and Africa.

Of course, if we do go with the World War scenario, Government resources would be taxed out, and not able to immediatly investigate, so it will deffinatly buy some more time...


Unless someone plans on doing the "Discovered by 15yo kids" angle....

Aero Blade
2011-03-20, 03:28 PM
Unless someone plans on doing the "Discovered by 15yo kids" angle....

Well they are better about keeping secrets than most ;)

Brave Maximus
2011-03-20, 04:44 PM
For once I want to see some emo-poser-evil kid sitting in the back of Decepticon HQ writing bad poetry and getting under their feet....

Warcry
2011-03-20, 07:09 PM
I can only imagine how well it would go over when Megatron picked some of his Decepticons to be 'Guardians' to the Decepticons trio of annoying evil teenagers...

Lugnut: "I want a different human! This one keeps trying to draw gang signs on my cockpit canopy!"

Jetfire: "Consider yourself lucky! Mine keeps trying to decorate the lab with portraits of some human called 'Manson'. And she keeps trying to get me to wear black eyeliner."

Predacon: "You've both got it lucky! Mine is always cosplaying as Ramjet."

Blackjack
2011-03-20, 11:13 PM
Scorponok: "Jetfire, I must say, black eyeliner suits you, yeeess. But my organic companion infinitely trumps all of yours! He transforms into a techno-organic robot and, uh, cosplays as Optimus Prime. And he's sort of going to betray us later."

Obsidian: "Terrible name for a human though. In fact, terrible name for anything. What the hell does Ginrai even mean?"

Scorponok: "I don't know."

Obsidian: "Then?"

Scorponok: "Look, I justified it as being some random ancient myth thinly veiled with a reference to Beast Machines. Next techno-organic I make, I'll name it after you, yes?"

Skywarp: "Preddy, can I talk to your human? I'll teach him that Ramjet is the least cool of the Seekers a human could cosplay as. Not when you have, say, me. I'm a chick magnet!"

Sixshot: [scowls] "Your humans keep trying to convince me to wipe a town off the map."

Selkadoom
2011-03-22, 12:47 AM
Thundercracker: "Shut it Skywarp we all know I'm the best . Sides you can have my human she keeps painting me pink ' Uggggh ` and decorate me some horrible monstrosity called 'Hello Kitty." ( Shudder )

Thunderwing: I wanted a human but they leave once they see the experiments in my lab. Can't figure out why"

Blaster
2011-03-22, 12:56 AM
Why do these threads keep degenerating into "Retarded Quasi-RP for Infants"?

We have two running RPGs are you guys just cannot contain yourself? And to think, I almost sort of kinda maybe had a little respect for Warcry and then he shits it all way.

Aero Blade
2011-03-22, 01:24 AM
I believe this is what would be considered having fun while waiting on other people to post, or hashing out potential ideas in a purposefully silly manner. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it. I personally have been finding this quite entertaining to check on while waiting for my chances to post.

Brave Maximus
2011-03-22, 03:40 AM
It's Blaster...

I don't think he's actually capable of having fun as we know it ;)

I still miss the old thread about Cliffy's room and TF toys...