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zigzagger
2011-08-27, 06:25 AM
The Transformers: Volume 6: Police Action TPB will contain Ongoing issues #25, #27, #29 and Spotlight: Prowl (http://tfarchive.com/community/showthread.php?t=48567) (not merged here).

Book description @ Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Transformers-6-Chaos-Police-Action/dp/1613771649/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1324600184&sr=8-1)

-ziggy

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Your all purpose Transformers #25 reaction and discussion thread.

Out September 7.

An uncharacteristically early preview for Transformers #25 has recently been posted by John Barber (http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewtopic.php?t=10462) at the IDW forums.

Preview @ issuu.com (http://issuu.com/idwpublishing/docs/transformers_ongoing_25_preview?viewMode=magazine)

Note: there seems to be viewing issues on some people's end (mine included).

Denyer
2011-08-27, 10:28 AM
It's very, very slow for a Flash interface, so I'm guessing it's their server bandwidth that's the bottleneck and makes things seem to freeze (and possibly actually freeze, depending on how the plugin is integrated with the browser -- I'd suggest Chrome for this.)

On the comic: nothing of interest, personally. It's gone right back to snail's-pace-who-gives-a-****-how-many-pages-we-waste, by the looks of it.

StarscreamX
2011-08-27, 06:03 PM
Why do the Autobots give a damn that Jazz killed a human? Optimus Prime killed a human. Grimlock and the Dinobots killed a TON of humans. Hot Rod and Wheeljack killed a whole bunch of them too.

And yay, more Spike Witwicky and Skywatch. Thrilling

On the bright side at least it's only two weeks until we get back to the interesting story on Cybertron with the Autobots and Galvatron

Red Dave Prime
2011-08-28, 08:15 AM
I would be guessing it's because Jazz killed a human who was not attacking them (I know, very hazey in the issue it happened, but the guy had agreed to stand down) where as Dinobots, Hot rod etc. killed a load of humans attacking them in mech suits. Primes one is a little bit harder to defend though...

Bucquoy
2011-08-28, 08:34 AM
Prime killing a human? My memory fails me - was it in Escalation?

Cliffjumper
2011-08-28, 02:45 PM
Did he kill that guy in the bit nicked from the first Bay film? Or was he just injured?

I never really thought the Autobots had a solid inflexible code regarding killings - try not to kill innocents if remotely possible, try and take prisoners if it's remotely possible, but at the end of the day, they're fighting a war, not playing cops and robbers (well, apart from in most of the shit cartoons anyway, where instead they're learning to play basketball and building robot dinosaurs). They're not the Avengers or something.

Disclaimer: I didn't read the comics pages as they sound like they're by the same tools and hacks as usual; I'm not even loading IDW pages unless they contain Roberts.

Blackjack
2011-08-28, 02:57 PM
The problem with Jazz killing a human is because Mike Costa thinks the ongoing is not part of a prior established continuity, and just as he ignores the fact that Pretenders are weapons of destruction, the Combaticons are a crack assault team, Optimus isn't emo and stuff like that.

At the very least, when Furman wrote IDW any Sunstreaker copy that were killed also means a human death (or mentally dead anyway)... and the likes of Wheeljack and Hot Rod killed Sunstreaker clones as well, not just the likes of the Dinobots.

And in AHM Sideswipe totally killed Onion boy.

Why they made such a big deal that Jazz killed a human? Or that Spike killed Scrapper? It's because Costa's Optimus, Bumblebee and bitchy humans are wimps. Is why.

StarscreamX
2011-08-28, 03:28 PM
The problem with Jazz killing a human is because Mike Costa thinks the ongoing is not part of a prior established continuity, and just as he ignores the fact that Pretenders are weapons of destruction, the Combaticons are a crack assault team, Optimus isn't emo and stuff like that.

At the very least, when Furman wrote IDW any Sunstreaker copy that were killed also means a human death (or mentally dead anyway)... and the likes of Wheeljack and Hot Rod killed Sunstreaker clones as well, not just the likes of the Dinobots.

And in AHM Sideswipe totally killed Onion boy.

Why they made such a big deal that Jazz killed a human? Or that Spike killed Scrapper? It's because Costa's Optimus, Bumblebee and bitchy humans are wimps. Is why.

I can sort of understand the big deal made about Scrapper because he was wounded and surrendering and not really a threat to anyone and Spike killed him in cold blood. Arguably the sensible thing to do as it means the Constructicons can't form Devastator now but its the kind of thing the Autobots do disaprove of. It's the same sort of thing they threw Impactor in jail for, killing a defenceless enemy.

But the big deal being made about Jazz killing an armed and dangerous man who could have killed a lot of Autobots is bloody stupid.

Did he kill that guy in the bit nicked from the first Bay film? Or was he just injured?

It looked like he was dead in the issue. Prime didn't seem to care either way though, which makes the Autobot's sudden horror at the idea of killing a human in self defence pretty weird


I never really thought the Autobots had a solid inflexible code regarding killings - try not to kill innocents if remotely possible, try and take prisoners if it's remotely possible, but at the end of the day, they're fighting a war, not playing cops and robbers (well, apart from in most of the shit cartoons anyway, where instead they're learning to play basketball and building robot dinosaurs). They're not the Avengers or something.

Disclaimer: I didn't read the comics pages as they sound like they're by the same tools and hacks as usual; I'm not even loading IDW pages unless they contain Roberts.

Yeah I agree with that. The Autobots try not to kill when possible, except for the Wreckers and maybe one or two of the less peaceful Autobots like Grimlock and his Dynobots.

Damn, I could really go for a scene of Optimus Prime playing basketball right now. It would be miles better than him sitting in a cell and moping like he did for the first five issues of Costa's run

Prime killing a human? My memory fails me - was it in Escalation?

Yeah, he stood in front of a getaway vehicle being used by one of the Machination's agents and let it crash into him, killing the driver.

I would be guessing it's because Jazz killed a human who was not attacking them (I know, very hazey in the issue it happened, but the guy had agreed to stand down) where as Dinobots, Hot rod etc. killed a load of humans attacking them in mech suits. Primes one is a little bit harder to defend though...

I guess that's true but the human DID have a gun pointed right at Bumblebee and it wasn't clear whether he was going to kill him or not. His finger was still on the trigger and if Jazz hadn't acted, Bumblebee could have died.

Cliffjumper
2011-08-28, 03:50 PM
It looked like he was dead in the issue. Prime didn't seem to care either way though, which makes the Autobot's sudden horror at the idea of killing a human in self defence pretty weird

Agreed - I think it was left purposefully ambiguous in the issue as to whether the mook is dead or just hugely injured, but killing the guy is certainly an eventuality Prime is prepared for - even for a Transformers brain, it would be nigh-on impossible to cause a car accident like that and guarantee the health of whoever's driving.

Yeah I agree with that. The Autobots try not to kill when possible, except for the Wreckers and maybe one or two of the less peaceful Autobots like Grimlock and his Dynobots.

I'd say even the Wreckers and Dinos have some sort of belief against killing unless necessary - it's just that both groups are generally deployed in the sort of situation where it is necessary.

For what's it's worth, I always thought Impactor's actions were totally correct for the situation he's in, but I can see why an example was made of him by high command having to officially frown on them; I also subscribe to the theory that Prowl effectively orders Impactor to execute Squadron X and Impactor has a fair idea of the price he'll pay.

I somehow suspect this whole Jazz thing is nowhere near as skillfully written, however.

StarscreamX
2011-08-28, 05:37 PM
Agreed - I think it was left purposefully ambiguous in the issue as to whether the mook is dead or just hugely injured, but killing the guy is certainly an eventuality Prime is prepared for - even for a Transformers brain, it would be nigh-on impossible to cause a car accident like that and guarantee the health of whoever's driving.


Agreed which makes sense in the situation. The Machination were heavily armed and had already apparently killed one Autobot and were escaping with what Prime THOUGHT was Cybertronian technology that could do untold damage to the world.


I'd say even the Wreckers and Dinos have some sort of belief against killing unless necessary - it's just that both groups are generally deployed in the sort of situation where it is necessary.

Some of the Wreckers probably..Springer, Top Spin and Kup probably don't like to kill unless they have to. Especially Top Spin as he only joined the Wrecker's to watch out for Twin Twist. From what we've seen of Whirl it seems like he is probably a little eager to kill, given his treatment of prisoners back when he was a cop. And Springer thought he was too unstable to be a Wrecker in the 'Bullets' story and Guzzle was pretty gleeful when he got his hands on those cerebro-centric bullets

The Dinobots I'm not so sure about. They were pretty brutal in those flashbacks to Cybertron in Maximum Dinobots but I think Swoop and maybe Sludge and Slag are probably less brutal than Grimlock or Snarl


For what's it's worth, I always thought Impactor's actions were totally correct for the situation he's in, but I can see why an example was made of him by high command having to officially frown on them; I also subscribe to the theory that Prowl effectively orders Impactor to execute Squadron X and Impactor has a fair idea of the price he'll pay.


Impactor was really in a total no-win situation. Either he could kill prisoners in handcuffs or let them go free, knowing for a fact that they would slaughter countless innocents.

I think Prowl definitely knew exactly what Impactor would do in that situation. It fits with his manipulative personality to deliberately be an officious prick to Impactor, KNOWING that he would rebel and disobey his orders.

I somehow suspect this whole Jazz thing is nowhere near as skillfully written, however

I think your suspicions are going to turn out to be correct :(

The one bright spot is that Costa seems to be writing Prowl more like Roche and Roberts wrote him. So maybe one good thing will come out of the Skywatch story

I'm still hoping that Ben Simpson jackass is a Decepticon facsimile their using to turn the public against the Autobots, but I have my doubts that Costa would do something like that. Though Ore 13 got a mention back in Revenge of the Decepticons so that suggests he's read at least some of Furman's stuff

Fergurg
2011-08-28, 08:18 PM
Something else to remember about Jazz's actions: he was ordered by Optimus Prime to not get involved. So a human died at his hands as a direct result of him violating orders.

As for Spike killing Scrapper, it may be justified, but once the enemy surrenders, their life is supposed to be safe. Scrapper was killed after he surrendered and agreed to submit to being locked in auto mode, so it's not like he was even threatening to escape at that point. Read that last page: even Spike felt he did something evil.

StarscreamX
2011-08-28, 10:13 PM
Something else to remember about Jazz's actions: he was ordered by Optimus Prime to not get involved. So a human died at his hands as a direct result of him violating orders.

That's true. But given how Autobots have treated humans in the past, those orders and the reaction to Jazz not obeying them don't make much sense :(


As for Spike killing Scrapper, it may be justified, but once the enemy surrenders, their life is supposed to be safe. Scrapper was killed after he surrendered and agreed to submit to being locked in auto mode, so it's not like he was even threatening to escape at that point. Read that last page: even Spike felt he did something evil.

Agreed I can understand why Optimus is pissed about what Spike did. Scrapper was defenceless and Spike had the power to lock him up where he couldn't do any harm. I can see why the Autobots would be angry with Spike about what he did

Blackjack
2011-08-29, 03:12 AM
That's true. But given how Autobots have treated humans in the past, those orders and the reaction to Jazz not obeying them don't make much sense :(

Agreed.

The beat cop was aiming a weapon that could kill about ten or so Autobots. Not to mention probably causing other damages as well. Orders or no, it made sense that Jazz would want to kill the human, if only to protect his pals.

inflatable dalek
2011-08-29, 07:03 AM
The beat cop was aiming a weapon that could kill about ten or so Autobots. Not to mention probably causing other damages as well. Orders or no, it made sense that Jazz would want to kill the human, if only to protect his pals.


Not having read the issue in question this is just speculative on my part: If the humans (somehow) have hand-held weapons that can kill ten Transformers at a time not pissing them off by killing their troops when you don't have too would be a high priority. Jazz could have gotten a lot of his colleges killed as a result. Mind, it doesn't sound like the choice is being presented like that.


On a similar note with Impactor, considering the generally poor regard the Transformers are held in by the rest of the Galaxy letting Squadron X go so as not to piss the Pova People off needlessly was likely a sacrifice worth making (though it's a nice touch of ambiguity that we never find out what they'd actually be capable of doing in retaliation to Impactor's acts). Equally, even if Prowl was deliberately planting a seed, there's no way Impactor could get less than the maximum punishment. In an army you need your troops, even the ones who are part of fairly autonomous units, to obey all orders instantly. The higher ups will almost always have access to more information than the grunts and can't have them deciding they know best. Especially when it comes to "Don't kill people" orders.

Blackjack
2011-08-29, 08:57 AM
Not having read the issue in question this is just speculative on my part: If the humans (somehow) have hand-held weapons that can kill ten Transformers at a time not pissing them off by killing their troops when you don't have too would be a high priority. Jazz could have gotten a lot of his colleges killed as a result. Mind, it doesn't sound like the choice is being presented like that.

Megatron dumps a bunch of wounded Autobots who can't fight back within reach of the beat cop with a handheld Megatron gun which blows stuff up and apparently can kill Autobots (Bumblebee was shot through the stomach and he was only crippled for, like, six issues.

Bumblebee tries to talk beat cop down through some Costa's multi-panel conversations. Jazz pops up and cooks the guy with his flamethrower.

Everybody is shocked.

Cliffjumper
2011-08-29, 10:27 AM
Not having read the issue in question this is just speculative on my part: If the humans (somehow) have hand-held weapons that can kill ten Transformers at a time not pissing them off by killing their troops when you don't have too would be a high priority. Jazz could have gotten a lot of his colleges killed as a result. Mind, it doesn't sound like the choice is being presented like that.

See above; context is king. We're talking a one-off situation rather than the US Army being equipped with personal anti-Transformer weaponry.

On a similar note with Impactor, considering the generally poor regard the Transformers are held in by the rest of the Galaxy letting Squadron X go so as not to piss the Pova People off needlessly was likely a sacrifice worth making (though it's a nice touch of ambiguity that we never find out what they'd actually be capable of doing in retaliation to Impactor's acts).

The Povians would already be pissed off to some extent that there's a Transformers scrap happening on their planet; the damage is already done. The Povians won't co-operate with prisoners being held until a prison ship arrives; however, as they didn't bother intervening in the huge firefight that could well have had casualties. It could be diplomacy; US military units generally avoid chasing terrorists to the UK and having pitched gun-battles in Birmingham; if they did, it would be politically awkward. However, if they did it would also be pretty difficult to see what British government would do about it beyond asking them not to and a few meaningless slaps on the wrist. To further extent the analogy, if this theoretical US unit captured the terrorists alive, the UK authorities could make things tricky and embarrassing when it came to extraction/collection

Plus how much of what Prowl says about the Povians is him nudging Impactor towards the result they both want? Taking anything IDW Prowl says at face value is pure folly, IMO.

Of course, the onion in the ointment is that the Wreckers must have got to and back off Pova somehow, and surely could cram Squadron X in whatever transport, especially if they pull their arms and legs off.

Equally, even if Prowl was deliberately planting a seed, there's no way Impactor could get less than the maximum punishment. In an army you need your troops, even the ones who are part of fairly autonomous units, to obey all orders instantly. The higher ups will almost always have access to more information than the grunts and can't have them deciding they know best. Especially when it comes to "Don't kill people" orders.

Well, obviously. Impactor's being set up to do Prowl's dirty work, and almost certainly knows it. He [Impactor] arguably knows that stopping Squadron X then and there is more important than his own personal freedom. Prowl knows Impactor and how he's going to react.

StarscreamX
2011-08-29, 03:12 PM
Judging from his story in All Hail Megatron Prowl seems to know how to predict how EVERYONE will react.

He's like the Autobot version of Shockwave :sweatdrop

Auntie Slag
2011-08-29, 09:59 PM
Judging from his story in All Hail Megatron Prowl seems to know how to predict how EVERYONE will react.

Oh its not that big a deal. Megatron was doing this in Simon Furman's first transformers story 'The Enemy Within'; predicting Brawn's reactions to suit Megatron's own ends for dealing with Starscream.

I quite like the fact that Prowl's smarts makes him as vicious as any Wrecker whilst keeping his hands clean. Its delicious really. That crafty little squirrel.

Cunning Ravage
2011-08-30, 02:41 AM
He's like the Autobot version of Shockwave :sweatdrop

He always sort of was, both share the same function and both are 'logic for everything!' types. It's just it's never been explored with Prowl.

StarscreamX
2011-08-30, 01:56 PM
Oh its not that big a deal. Megatron was doing this in Simon Furman's first transformers story 'The Enemy Within'; predicting Brawn's reactions to suit Megatron's own ends for dealing with Starscream.


Easy to forget that Megatron was actually pretty smart, back before he started beating his own troops senseless and blowing himself up on space bridges

I've always found it oddly hillarious that in the Marvel and Marvel UK stuff it's Galvatron who's the (Fairly) sane, rational leader who get's pissed off by Megatron's raging insanity. It's like the cartoon on opposite day.


I quite like the fact that Prowl's smarts makes him as vicious as any Wrecker whilst keeping his hands clean. Its delicious really. That crafty little squirrel.

Yeah I like how he seems able to predict how the more "Maverick" Autobots like Springer or Impactor will react and manipulate them to get what he wants

Then of course there's how he conveniently made sure Kup had a "Heroic Sacrifice", right about the time Optimus and the other Autobots found out that Prowl had made alterations to his body in Infestation. I get the feeling Prowl was counting on Kup not surviving taking out Britt and the Undermind so there wouldn't be any uncomfortable questions asked about just WHAT he did to the poor old Autobot on Kimia :eek:

Ulcrain
2011-09-01, 09:40 PM
Just cross your fingers and hope Skywatch get's disbanded at the end of this.

Cliffjumper
2011-09-01, 10:56 PM
Didn't Winter fly it into the sun in the end?

StarscreamX
2011-09-03, 11:54 AM
Just cross your fingers and hope Skywatch get's disbanded at the end of this.

Maybe Jazz will step on Spike :p

Ulcrain
2011-09-04, 03:43 AM
Our Spike will get picked up by Hook and truned into Shockwaves science experiment

inflatable dalek
2011-09-04, 04:11 AM
Didn't Winter fly it into the sun in the end?

Nah, Skywatch is the one where Bob Peck has to stop an evil Luke Skywalker from playing the Jester in those bloody awful Flash episodes isn't it?

StarscreamX
2011-09-07, 03:30 PM
Well it wasn't as shit as I feared it would be. The focus stayed mostly on the Autobots despite being set on Earth and the Skywatch redshirts didn't clutter up too many pages. And Prowl was nicely written as the cold son of a bitch he should be, completely unconcerned when Spike almost gets smushed to paste by Breakdown and noting that Ben Simpson needs to be "Dealt with"

Also Prowl mocking Spike's booty calls made me chuckle:lol:

On the downside the treatment of Jazz seen in the preview sadly isn't any less ridiculous in context. But it's hinted that Ben Simpson may be connected to the Decepticons which increases the chances that he's a facsimile like I hope he is, instead of just a two dimensional Graydon Creed rip off.

And apparently the Decepticon's on Earth are up to something. Odds are that it's Shockwave behind it as he's the most likely one to be leading the Decepticon's now that Starscream's lost the Matrix. After all that's the only reason he wound up leader and no one is likely to follow him without it.

Red Dave Prime
2011-09-10, 10:04 PM
Yup, not bad but it's a comedown from the highs of 22/23 and the epic vibe of 24. The arts ok, but the main action scene had me scratching my head a little as I really wasnt sure of what happened.

The plot is fine enough. There's a bit of intrigue but I'm not sure if any of us really care enough about this. It just doesnt seem to be a big deal. Spike executed the leader of the unit which formed devastator who probably slaughtered the most humans? I think that can be forgiven to be honest.

There's also some silliness that Prime went back to cybertron to reclaim it from a great threat and left Omega Supreme, Magnus, Jazz and Prowl behind. And surely Jazz was the perfect candidate to leave Earth?

So not terrible but it still feels pointless at this point and I really just want to see more of the Galvatron/ chaos arc.

One last thing, IDW have claimed that Chaos was where Costa was always heading. Now that makes some sense with Spike but the Prowl here is much more the Roche/Roberts Prowl and nothing like the terrible version Costa initially wrote. There's no way that this is how Costa saw Prowl evolving. And that really annoyed me for some reason. I think it's cause if you are going to make a drastic change to a character then A) have a reason other then you didnt read the previous material and B) that you wouldnt stick to your guns even when you were slatted for it.

Ulcrain
2011-09-11, 05:46 AM
It just doesnt seem to be a big deal. Spike executed the leader of the unit which formed devastator who probably slaughtered the most humans? I think that can be forgiven to be honest.

Spike exeacuted Scrapper while he was surrendering. Even in the real life milatery that's seen as a wrong thing to do.

And surely Jazz was the perfect candidate to leave Earth?

I presume Optimus wanted Bumblebee to have relieible second in commond and thought Jazz would be good for the job.

zigzagger
2011-09-11, 06:11 AM
I think it's cause if you are going to make a drastic change to a character then A) have a reason other then you didnt read the previous material and B) that you wouldnt stick to your guns even when you were slatted for it.

Yep. It's made all the more frustrating by the complete role reversal of Prowl and Streetwise from the very first issue. The scenario is practically the same. Even Breakdown is there. I suspect this was intentional (?????)

Right, onto the issue. The bad first...

I'm probably in the same camp as those who are wondering why this story is even being told. It isn't necessarily bad, and in all fairness we ALL knew that it was never, ever, ever going to live up to Roberts' arc, but why return to, arguably, Costa's most contentious plot thread?

Do we really need to be reminded of how much a complete, unsympathetic prick Spike is? Unless, again, that was Costa's intention - which then I have to ask (again), why are we reading this story when the far more interesting one is happening on Cybertron?

Magnus, Prowl and the others remained on Earth because of this guy? Because he killed Devastator's leg? I find the less I think about this motivation, the better.

On the plus side, we have the duplicitous Prowl that I personally adore driving the story. While it isn't really all that remarkable, there's just a smidgen of intrigue going on here. Most (though certainly not all) of Prowl's dialogue is spot-on, too.

Oh...and Streetwise got to do something. Protectobots are typically underused in fiction, so I'm all for some love being thrown in their direction. Pity the two we see here act like complete buffoons.

Sigh, oh well...

Prowl's indifference to Spike being run down by Breakdown was pretty funny, though :) At least, that's how I wanted to read it.

StarscreamX
2011-09-11, 11:16 AM
Yep. It's made all the more frustrating by the complete role reversal of Prowl and Streetwise from the very first issue. The scenario is practically the same. Even Breakdown is there. I suspect this was intentional (?????)

Right, onto the issue. The bad first...

I'm probably in the same camp as those who are wondering why this story is even being told. It isn't necessarily bad, and in all fairness we ALL knew that it was never, ever, ever going to live up to Roberts' arc, but why return to, arguably, Costa's most contentious plot thread?

Do we really need to be reminded of how much a complete, unsympathetic prick Spike is? Unless, again, that was Costa's intention - which then I have to ask (again), why are we reading this story when the far more interesting one is happening on Cybertron?

I can't quite decide if Costa always intended Spike to be a villain in the end or if he just writes the most unsympathetic, dull and douchey heroes of all time. Spike started off a a skirt chasing prick and from there he only seems to have gotten worse :(



On the plus side, we have the duplicitous Prowl that I personally adore driving the story. While it isn't really all that remarkable, there's just a smidgen of intrigue going on here. Most (though certainly not all) of Prowl's dialogue is spot-on, too.

Oh...and Streetwise got to do something. Protectobots are typically underused in fiction, so I'm all for some love being thrown in their direction. Pity the two we see here act like complete buffoons.

Sigh, oh well...

Prowl's indifference to Spike being run down by Breakdown was pretty funny, though :) At least, that's how I wanted to read it.

Yeah his only worry was that his investigation might be ruined, Spike nearly becoming roadkill obviously didn't bother him for any reason other than that. :lol:

I love how Spike, the big bad secret agent apparently doesn't notice the bright silver race car with a big-ass Decepticon logo on it until it's literally crashed into him. Look, listen and live Spike :p

Yup, not bad but it's a comedown from the highs of 22/23 and the epic vibe of 24. The arts ok, but the main action scene had me scratching my head a little as I really wasnt sure of what happened.

The plot is fine enough. There's a bit of intrigue but I'm not sure if any of us really care enough about this. It just doesnt seem to be a big deal. Spike executed the leader of the unit which formed devastator who probably slaughtered the most humans? I think that can be forgiven to be honest.

There's also some silliness that Prime went back to cybertron to reclaim it from a great threat and left Omega Supreme, Magnus, Jazz and Prowl behind. And surely Jazz was the perfect candidate to leave Earth?

So not terrible but it still feels pointless at this point and I really just want to see more of the Galvatron/ chaos arc.

I agree with this. The story on Cybertron is definitely far more interesting than what's going on with Skywatch on Earth and I'm glad that we won't have to wait a whole month to get the second part of Chaos.


One last thing, IDW have claimed that Chaos was where Costa was always heading. Now that makes some sense with Spike but the Prowl here is much more the Roche/Roberts Prowl and nothing like the terrible version Costa initially wrote. There's no way that this is how Costa saw Prowl evolving. And that really annoyed me for some reason. I think it's cause if you are going to make a drastic change to a character then A) have a reason other then you didnt read the previous material and B) that you wouldnt stick to your guns even when you were slatted for it.

I was okay with that as the Roche/Roberts version of Prowl is far more interesting than the terrible human loving Prowl that Costa tried to create. Costa's Prowl was prettty much just the G1 cartoon character with no real interesting personality.

Red Dave Prime
2011-09-11, 11:46 AM
Yeah, given Spikes knowledge and experience of Breakdown and Prowl, how in the hell does he not spot them, even without the insignia???

And while it's fair to say that Spike executed a surrendering enemy, scrapper would surely have been executed considering how many lives he took a-la many of the nazi death camp generals and even more recently Saddam? It would be fair enough for Spike to say that there was no legal precedent for a trial for scrapper and he could not let the Autobots simply take him into custody (ok, he should have done this with the whole consturcticon unit but you get my point)

Paul053
2011-09-14, 02:45 PM
After reading this issue, I've no idea how much I hate about Spike this character. Costa is doing his best same old thing at making things worse. Honestly, really don't want to see those stupid Skywatch agents anymore and don't want to see that leader Bumblebee, too. Cybertron's story is more interesting now.

BTW, isn't there always trouble following Spike *@&# with a woman?

StarscreamX
2011-09-15, 03:59 PM
After reading this issue, I've no idea how much I hate about Spike this character. Costa is doing his best same old thing at making things worse. Honestly, really don't want to see those stupid Skywatch agents anymore and don't want to see that leader Bumblebee, too. Cybertron's story is more interesting now.

BTW, isn't there always trouble following Spike *@&# with a woman?

Spike getting some is indeed a harbinger of terrible things ahead. Not least of which is the possibility of him having a kid and continuing the Witwicky line, which is a horrifying thought

Red Dave Prime
2011-09-15, 09:33 PM
Daniel Jr? Say it ain't so...

Has Costa ever explained what he wanted out of this Spike character? At every point he has come across as a really bad, annoying extra that wasnt needed. I know Human characters generally come across badly in TF comics but Spike feels like he was written specifically to annoy the readers.

Ulcrain
2011-09-15, 10:06 PM
Just pray that Skywatch gets disbandead after this, people.

Intrestingly, with the mention of what Part 2 will have a plan that Skywatch has may mean that will happen...

Blackjack
2011-09-16, 09:27 AM
What the heck is this, what the bloody heck.

To be fair, Prowl is growing organically from his terrible early-Costa interpretation, slowly, mind you, back to his Furman/Roche baseline. Though the initial change is still very jarring. Magnus is pretty win, as well. But really the rest of the issue is a big mess, which makes me wonder why Costa even bothered with the Earth arc itself.

Don't care about Ben Simpson, very uninteresting after that introduction moment.

Don't care about Pennington, guy should've died and it'd have more impact.

The Scrapper story is terrible and for it to be the main driving force behind this is rubbish. Really, the Autobots left Magnus, Bumblebee, Jazz and Prowl, four of their highest-ranking people, in order to investigate one of their allies killing one of their enemies? Really it is so WTF when you think about it.

Jazz killing a human and all the emo shock following it is uninteresting.

Bumblebee is dull.

Spike Witwicky should not exist. It is a wonder he could take down any Decepticons.

WTF, with Prowl and Streetwise? Why the hell are their roles switched? It might be intentional, but knowing Costa who gave Hot Rod a revamp until the emo Rod and the crazy Rod don't seem like the same character.

Hot Spot is a dunce.

Art is gorgeous, though.

Ulcrain
2011-09-16, 09:32 AM
Hey, look on the brightside, at least we get to see Spike ''Dickhead'' Witwicky get nearly runover:D.

Blackjack
2011-09-16, 09:45 AM
Hey, look on the brightside, at least we get to see Spike ''Dickhead'' Witwicky get nearly runover:D.

I want to see him actually get ran over. :(

But knowing that Spike is Costa's 'main character' it's not bloody likely.

Paul053
2011-09-16, 01:37 PM
I want to see him actually get ran over. :(

But knowing that Spike is Costa's 'main character' it's not bloody likely.

Does it matter? How time times Pennington should have died but he is still there. And he is not even a "support" character.

StarscreamX
2011-09-16, 04:46 PM
What the heck is this, what the bloody heck.

To be fair, Prowl is growing organically from his terrible early-Costa interpretation, slowly, mind you, back to his Furman/Roche baseline. Though the initial change is still very jarring. Magnus is pretty win, as well. But really the rest of the issue is a big mess, which makes me wonder why Costa even bothered with the Earth arc itself.

Magnus was much better here than in the first six issues when he was being a dick to everyone


Don't care about Ben Simpson, very uninteresting after that introduction moment.

Don't care about Pennington, guy should've died and it'd have more impact.

How the hell is Pennington still alive? He got hit by a Stunticon. A big lump of alien metal moving at intense speed slammed right into him. It's like in the cartoon when Megatron or whoever would bitch slap Spike and he'd be perfectly okay


The Scrapper story is terrible and for it to be the main driving force behind this is rubbish. Really, the Autobots left Magnus, Bumblebee, Jazz and Prowl, four of their highest-ranking people, in order to investigate one of their allies killing one of their enemies? Really it is so WTF when you think about it.

Jazz killing a human and all the emo shock following it is uninteresting.

Bumblebee is dull.

That Bumblebee and Jazz conversation was like watching paint dry.


Spike Witwicky should not exist. It is a wonder he could take down any Decepticons.

Truer words have never been spoken


WTF, with Prowl and Streetwise? Why the hell are their roles switched? It might be intentional, but knowing Costa who gave Hot Rod a revamp until the emo Rod and the crazy Rod don't seem like the same character.

Hot Spot is a dunce.

Art is gorgeous, though.

Hot Spot being so thick was a WTF moment. It makes you start to wonder if maybe this is why the Autobots haven't beaten the Decepticons in four million years. This is the kind of 'bot who's on the Autobots side

Daniel Jr? Say it ain't so...


I've seen Spike's parenting skills in Headmasters, he should never have kids ever. EVER


Has Costa ever explained what he wanted out of this Spike character? At every point he has come across as a really bad, annoying extra that wasnt needed. I know Human characters generally come across badly in TF comics but Spike feels like he was written specifically to annoy the readers.

I can't shake the feeling that Costa wishes he was writing another G.I Joe book and created Skywatch to be an incredibly lame stand in for them. They seem like a cheap knock off of the team. All of Skywatch are pretty annoying really. The idea that humans are somehow better than Transformers is bloody stupid right away as Transformers are light years more advanced than humanity. Yet we get bollocks like Spike killing Scrapper using detergent or whatever the hell was in that weapon he made while bitch and whining about how much Transformers suck. Or the moronic scenes of Autobots being beaten by Skywatch or those nutters who had the Megatron guns.

Or worst of all, the godawful International Incident arc with effing Combaticons being bossed around by stupid humans. It just feels like Costa has no interest in Transformers and wants to write these dull lousy human characters as better than them :(

Paul053
2011-09-16, 05:39 PM
It just feels like Costa has no interest in Transformers and wants to write these dull lousy human characters as better than them :(
And he has 2 year contracts, IIRC.

Red Dave Prime
2011-09-17, 12:59 AM
Remember in Issue 3 when the humans didnt even need the robo-suits to take down the autobots? Now that sucked.

I'll be glad if we can take a while away from earth after all this. At least we can have a mild re-boot of the earth scenario. It would be kind of fun if the autobots returned to earth to find it invaded by an outside alien force and the autobots had to use their alt modes to mount an underground resistance.

Of course knowing IDW, if they did this the invaders would be the Quintessions.

StarscreamX
2011-09-17, 01:49 AM
Remember in Issue 3 when the humans didnt even need the robo-suits to take down the autobots? Now that sucked.


Oh yeah, that spiky haired twit. I'd almost managed to forget the stupidity of that arc :(


I'll be glad if we can take a while away from earth after all this. At least we can have a mild re-boot of the earth scenario. It would be kind of fun if the autobots returned to earth to find it invaded by an outside alien force and the autobots had to use their alt modes to mount an underground resistance.


I'm thinking that the Roche/Roberts series isn't going to be set on earth. I'm glad we're finally seeing more of the Autobots in space in Chaos and I'm hoping that's gonna continue


And he has 2 year contracts, IIRC.

I think that he's going to be leaving Transformers after Chaos. Though even if he isn't we're going to have a new ongoing written by Roberts with art by Roche :clap::love:

Ulcrain
2011-09-17, 01:50 AM
Remember brave fellows, there is light at the end of the tunnel

Red Dave Prime
2011-09-19, 09:55 PM
Good god man, control yourself! For all we know, that light could be the infamous IDW train heading our way!!

Ulcrain
2011-09-19, 10:03 PM
What, you don't think James Roberts and Nick Rouche getting an ongoing is a good thing?

Red Dave Prime
2011-09-19, 10:54 PM
Oh I do, most certainly. But IDW have had good starts before and then collapsed. I'm hoping that doesnt happen this time because these two guys have shown they can do an engaging and interesting take on the transformers but with IDW I've learnt to take it one issue at a time.

zigzagger
2011-10-04, 10:37 PM
Your all purpose Transformers #27 reaction and discussion thread.

Preview is up @ Comics Continuum (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1110/04/idwfirsts.htm).

StarscreamX
2011-10-05, 06:46 PM
I'm guessing Brawl's "Spotter" is probably either Blast Off or Vortex but part of me is really hoping it's Banzai Tron and that the fact that the Combaticons are supposed to be highly trained psychotic agents of the Decepticon Secret Service and not morons who work for pathetic humans is finally going to be acknowledged

Prowl may be a total bastard but you've got to hand it to him, he's also pretty bad ass here. Though why is Streetwise being written as a dumb ass in this arc? Is Costa trying to do some kind of "Buddy cop" thing here, with the cold, methodical Prowl being the "Wise old cop" and Streetwise being the "Hot headed rookie".

Screw it, from this point on I'm going to imagine that Prowl sounds like Morgan Freeman :swirly:

Red Dave Prime
2011-10-05, 08:49 PM
Anyone else finding Cahills art, while decent, tends to get confused when action is involved? That bit with the building collapsing just doesnt look right, and in the last issue, the car ramming scene seemed off to me.

Other than that, theres a lot of page/ Panel wastage going on here. Vintage IDW. But I did like Prowls remark about Perceptor. That made me smile.

Obviously this is the weaker of the 2 stories that are going on. Its not that its really any worse written, but as a plot it seems so small compared to whats going on with Galvatron. I feel they may have been better served doing this one first THEN tying up into Chaos but I'm sure they have a reason for running both at the same time. I'm guessing they link up at the end. Or not. Its IDW, who knows.

StarscreamX
2011-10-06, 11:18 AM
Okay, I've got to hand it to Costa. He surprised me with this issue and in a GOOD way. For months now we've all hated Spike for being a boring, macho posturing, arrogant, stupid, action movie cliche dickhead with almost no redeeming features. And in this issue it turns out that every single bit of that was completely intentional on Costa's part. Spike's never been the hero. He's just been a douche who thinks he's the hero of an action movie and gets away with it because his daddy has friends in the right places.

Basically the last three or so pages of this issue are one huge deconstruction of why, in real life, it's utterly STUPID for anyone to act the way Spike does, especially when they're in a position of authority. It's one big "Take that" to the action movie hero cliche. Although it's possible that Costa has only done this story to try and address complaints from readers, giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming this is always what he had planned it's actually a pretty decent bit of writing

On the giant robot side of things it looks like the Decepticons have already found a new leader. Brawl doesn't say who, but he's working for someone else and with Shockwave and co on their way to Cybertron for the storyline going on there, my money is on Starscream or someone we haven't seen before. Or maybe an old favourite like Scorponok or Bludgeon

Speaking of ol' Skeletor, he gets another random mention in this issue, after getting one in Chaos as well. Foreshadowing maybe? It's confirmed that he's still out there, so hopefully Roche and Roberts make use of him in their new More than Meets the Eye ongoing.

Red Dave Prime
2011-10-13, 10:30 AM
Not too shabby. Theres a nice bit of development going on with Spike that has me wondering where the next issue goes. Also curious who the decepticon commander will be - couldnt tell much from the shape.

Its not a stand-out issue or anything but honestly nothing felt out of place or wrong in this one. The worse thing I could find was the collapse of the building scene looked strange - Does Streetwise ram Prowl out of there or push him along the ground? Anyway, thats a minor point and this isnt bad. Not essential but nothing to complain about.

zigzagger
2011-10-28, 08:21 PM
This is your all purpose Transformers #29 reaction and discussion thread.

Preview is up @ Newsarama (http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=44722&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+newsaramacomics+%28Newsarama.com+comics%29).

Bucquoy
2011-10-29, 09:16 AM
I'm not impressed. Lots of dialogue, with poor Jazz once again on the receiving end, though I somehow like the way Spike plays Prowl to the wall.

All in all, the preview leaves me with the feeling of a predictable mid-season epsiode of the average 80's detective tv show.

Denyer
2011-10-29, 10:54 AM
Lots of dialogue can be a plus. Given an interesting plot.

Cliffjumper
2011-10-29, 01:10 PM
TOO MANY WORDS WANT ROBO SMASH.

Red Dave Prime
2011-10-30, 11:05 PM
Anyone else feel the art looks a little rushed? Havent really taken to Cahills style anyway but this issue looks particularly basic.

As for plot - again, its just so meh. Could they not have ditched the spike thing (fun though his interaction with prowl was) and just had a 4 parter focused on Ben Simpson? Surely that would have been much more interesting. After 2 issues of nothing on him, to throw him in now is going to feel rushed.

StarscreamX
2011-11-02, 07:23 PM
Well bloody hell

Ben Simpson was a facsimile! I'd been hoping this was going to turn out to be the case, both because it's nice to see that the older stuff hasn't been completely tossed away and because it makes the plot of Revenge of the Decepticons and Megatron's plan seem marginally more bearable. And it's nice to see the Decepticons acting the way they're supposed to in the IDW continuity instead of as the brainless thugs they've become since All Hail Megatron

Though...Swindle? REALLY? SWINDLE is the mastermind behind this big Decepticon/Human conspiracy? Effing Swindle?!

Whatever

And I have no idea if Costa always intended Spike to be a villain or if he just realised that no one likes the little douche bag and threw it in at the last minute but honestly at this point I think I'm past caring. There's so much here that makes no bloody sense at all but at the end of the day, Spike is screwed, Skywatch is getting shut down and have lost all their stolen Transformers tech so we'll have no more "Humans are totally a threat to Transformers!" bollocks and the Autobots have decided to say "**** it" and get the hell off of Earth.

After so many long, boring and now utterly pointless issues of Costa trying to convince us how ****ing magic and special humans are, the moral of this story is: Actually, humans are a bit crap really. :clap:

Ulcrain
2011-11-03, 06:00 AM
Costa's redememed himself a bit, hasn't he?

Red Dave Prime
2011-11-03, 01:26 PM
Wow, take about lame ending. This wraps up everything but in the most boring way possible. Just two things in my head about this. One is why did they bother, the autobots had enough of a reason to leave earth. Two, why did I pay for this?

Dont have an answer to that one. Three issues of nothing. Could've been done in a Swindle Spotlight to tie things up.

Suppose all I can say is Costa you have been dreadful. There hasnt been a single good plotline in the 2 years he has run things. Yes, we've had the odd good moment and the odd decent issue but nothing ever went anywhere decent. We'll all point to international incident as being terrible but look how the Revenge of Megatron started ok and then snowballed into silly. Sure Furman had a similar failing but at least he tried for a much grander scheme and it was mostly entertaining, even up to the muddled end.

Even when we got a bit of an upswing towards the last few issues, there was always the feeling that Costa was trying to work out who should be doing what as he went along. No sense of an overall plan, and many characters changing to suit the role needed.

As D-ream said: Things can only get better.....

(cant they?)

Paul053
2011-11-04, 03:44 PM
Is.......this............it?

Seriously, this is the end? People above me said enough about the story. All I want to say is finally no more Costa. Yeah! No more. No..... more......... I hope.

NebulanFree
2011-11-06, 10:44 PM
So Costa spent all of this time assuring us that he had some sort of master plan here and it amounted to his simply undoing everything? This isn't something that could have been done twenty issues ago to spare us these doldrums?

...and his Joe efforts have been so ...adequate....

Thanks, Costa. Bye.

Knightdramon
2011-11-07, 10:06 AM
The entire issue read as if it came out of nowhere. It's as if it was thought off a week ago.

I'm no big fan of Spike, but it all felt pointless. So he's frowned upon for killing Scrapper? He goes running because he was accused of killing Scrapper? The only non-decent thing he did was collaborating with Swindle, if anything.

And that was completely out of the left field.

Not that I don't respect the writer's intention or anything, but the entire earth story was quasi-mysterious just for the shake of it. Meh.

Paul053
2011-11-07, 03:44 PM
I'm no big fan of Spike, but it all felt pointless. So he's frowned upon for killing Scrapper? He goes running because he was accused of killing Scrapper? The only non-decent thing he did was collaborating with Swindle, if anything.
Yeah, I think he ran because of working with a Decepticon. Not really for killing Scrapper.

Red Dave Prime
2011-11-07, 03:54 PM
And that bit made no sense really. Spike was given the shockwave style blaster in AHM - so obviously humans had learned some of the tech from having Shockwave and the rest captive. There's also no sign AT ALL during Costas run that Spike was involved in technology. Hell, his whole point in killing Scrapper the way he did was to show that a human didnt need advanced tech to take a cybertronian done. Now we are to believe that he was getting tech from swindle all along? That makes no sense.

(I could harp on the fact that Magnus and Prowl believe Swindle (****ing Swindle!!!) so quickly. But I feel like I've kicked this issue about enough)

StarscreamX
2011-11-08, 07:41 PM
Why was Spike Witwicky working with Swindle, a Decepticon war criminal? I guesss we'll never know. So, just to re-state we will never know, you're not going to find out later :p

Blackjack
2011-11-10, 03:32 PM
I don't think it's a good conclusion, even if Costa had actually planned for Swindle and Spike to be the 'big bad salesman' from the start. Swindle getting some sinister character moment is pretty good, and this is probably the first conversation with Spike that doesn't make me want to strangle the git.

Following Scrapper's murder is still a bit bollocks, though. The whole 'part of our alliance means you don't kill Decepticons' thing, even if it sort-of makes sense, well, why wasn't it mentioned before?

And really, we've never gotten any hints before that Spike is a bad guy. In all previous issues of the ongoing Spike has always been that Mary Sue. A good guy who can shoot Decepticons and rides around in a Decepticon like an idiot and visits cheap whores in Albuquerque and has some shitty Drift background and has a whole issue where he disses the whole concept of Transformers and he kills a Decepticon with kitchen acid so he must be badass and is able to know when Prowl tries to investigate him because he's such an awesome guy oh my god

He's a dick, but a 'good guy' nonetheless in his prior appearances.

I think it's more of Costa egging on the massive backlash on Spike Witwicky. I do hope this plot thread is closed here, and we don't spend another six issue for the Autobots and Pennington to hunt down Spike.

Jazz just... drives out of the base? Really? After so many issues of angsting that he's not allowed out of the base, what does he do, drive out of base? Bah. Anticlimatic.

Ben Simpson being a fascimile, and the technology being dubbed as obsolete after the Furman eras, yeah. I could see that happening. A nice enough explanation.

All the humans, the girl soldier, uninteresting general and Ben Simpson are all dealt with, so it's actually a pretty clear-cut conclusion for Earth. Costa best leave Earth now because as Prowl says, they've overstayed their welcome.

Ulcrain
2011-11-10, 07:25 PM
Jazz put it best.

Prime1
2011-11-13, 04:45 AM
Idw has no guts or Costa is just a bad writer

Im sorry and this is totally my opinion, but I love the premises that idw goes with, like All Hail Megatron, and like this story which is built on top of AHM, would have served best to end in controversy, it would have made much more sense, for the real reveal to be something like spike working with swindle intentionally behind the autobots backs, but what spike and the humans were really up to was to eliminate all Transformers, there are lines in these stories that would make this stick, and it makes more sense as to why spike took off, and it would have given Jazz a reason to go do what he did given he is special ops and once the autobots had been plotted against to be taken out it gave him that authorization to do it no matter what Ultra Magnus says, and in fact ben simpson had absolutely nothing to do with spike or the machination, he was nothing but a facismile planted by Megatron/Shockwave or whatever u like, just a minor distraction, but letting the autobots see humans for their treachary, issue #7 and Megatrons words would have made perfect sense here, and would show that the autobot/human alliance where the autobots went about it with trust the whole time the humans were planning to eliminate them, which would definately make the title the last story on earth, truly seem like the last story on earth, because after this the autobots truly never need to go to earth again, like said this is just my opinion, I just think that Costa could have written this alot better, but im ok with the ending, and im glad its ending.

Decepticon Spike
2011-11-20, 10:55 PM
I'm not impressed. Lots of dialogue, with poor Jazz once again on the receiving end, though I somehow like the way Spike plays Prowl to the wall.

All in all, the preview leaves me with the feeling of a predictable mid-season epsiode of the average 80's detective tv show.

I have to agree for the most part.