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Brave Maximus
2011-09-29, 05:26 AM
Alright, so, in the RPG we're already developing the Master Technology, and I thought it would be interesting to get people's take on it (I also had some questions about one particular brand... we'll get to those in a minute).

Headmasters: I think the idea that HM's were designed for fuel conservation and to allow smaller robots access to bigger bodies seems the most logical (does anyone want to binary bond to a squishy? Honnestly I'm curious. I think the tech might be able to be adapted to use organics...) - I will admit, I have modified my guys just a little as "I transform into a HEAD!" seems a bit silly to me - especially when you're as big as Fortress.

Powermasters: Do we like the idea of bonding to squishies to have access to more power, or should it just be an extension of the HM process - the real bot is the "engine" with a sparkless transector?

Target Masters: One of the more wonky designs from the Masters line (though not the weirdest...) - why would you want a gun that can override you in a combat situation? For me, I think it made the most sense for something like Stepper's reissue - the gun was shoulder mounted - this gives you an extra pair of eyes in the back of your head - someone to cover you. Working very much in the same way in vehicle mode - a mounted weapon that could fire while you did the piloting, instead of having to do both.
The second thing - for the purposes of the RPG - does a target master team count as one character or two?

Weird Japanese Masters:

God Masters: Ok... the idea is pretty weird, with Super Robot Powers tossed in for fun.... I came up with a somewhat plausable explination for Ginrai... But for the others? Shooting lighting bolts and using soul power?

Brain Masters: Ummm... really? Ok, these guys stand in the chest of the transector and then part of them gets pushed up and they become the brains and face.... Basically Head Masters 2.0

Breast Masters: Because... everyone loves Breast... Beasts... seriously... did anyone write this stuff with a strait face? Ok so - Triple changing Target Masters that want to be Soundwave - Goes from weapon to chest armour to beastie. I don't know why... but they do.
Same deal - do they count as one or two characters?

So what are your thoughts on the brands of Masters?

Blackjack
2011-09-29, 06:17 AM
Headmasters: I think the idea that HM's were designed for fuel conservation and to allow smaller robots access to bigger bodies seems the most logical (does anyone want to binary bond to a squishy? Honnestly I'm curious. I think the tech might be able to be adapted to use organics...) - I will admit, I have modified my guys just a little as "I transform into a HEAD!" seems a bit silly to me - especially when you're as big as Fortress.

Scorponok for one would be curious on bonding with organics, but he won't test it on himself...

Personally I don't want to make Scorponok a Headmaster, not until we're much later into the game.

Powermasters: Do we like the idea of bonding to squishies to have access to more power, or should it just be an extension of the HM process - the real bot is the "engine" with a sparkless transector?

The whole concept of Powermasters is that the engine provides the larger Transformer with a lot of energy, right? Humans doing that never made sense for me. Why don't we change 'human' into Minicon? That way more Minicons can come to play and stuff.

Target Masters: One of the more wonky designs from the Masters line (though not the weirdest...) - why would you want a gun that can override you in a combat situation? For me, I think it made the most sense for something like Stepper's reissue - the gun was shoulder mounted - this gives you an extra pair of eyes in the back of your head - someone to cover you. Working very much in the same way in vehicle mode - a mounted weapon that could fire while you did the piloting, instead of having to do both.

I've always thought that the gun does the aiming and shooting while the larger Transformer focuses on moving around, evading shots and stuff like that. Though yeah, being mounted on the shoulder makes much more sense than being held by the Targetmaster bulk.

[qutoe]Breast Masters: Because... everyone loves Breast... Beasts... seriously... did anyone write this stuff with a strait face? Ok so - Triple changing Target Masters that want to be Soundwave - Goes from weapon to chest armour to beastie. I don't know why... but they do.
Same deal - do they count as one or two characters?[/quote]

BREAST FORCE BREAST FORCE BREAST FORCE

Brave Maximus
2011-09-29, 06:43 AM
Yeah, I know it's the Breast Force...

but Breast Masters sound so much better...

Besides, doesn't the Breast Force only include the Leokaiser team and Breast Masters cover Dezarus as well?

In the same way that Brain Masters include Star Saber in the cool crowd?

Ulcrain
2011-09-29, 07:48 AM
Personily, I don't want characters who become Headmasters to be stuck without a head if they don't have their pathner.

Springer85
2011-09-29, 09:27 AM
Well, the one thing I actualy "liked" about IDW's approach to the Master tech is that it was introduced as a way for Humans to control Cybertronians. It sort of made sense to me.

I hope that we wait a very very long time before introducing any (other) master tech though. If we introduce everything in the first year of the new RPG, we'll have nothing left :lol:

Blackjack
2011-09-29, 12:32 PM
No Action Master love in this thread?

Besides, doesn't the Breast Force only include the Leokaiser team and Breast Masters cover Dezarus as well?

IIRC all seven of them were Breast Force, and the Liokaiser team was called... the Liokaiser team, or the Breastforce combiner.

In the same way that Brain Masters include Star Saber in the cool crowd?

Can I put it on record here that Brainmasters is a stupid name?

Personily, I don't want characters who become Headmasters to be stuck without a head if they don't have their pathner.

This.

Terribly silly when I saw it in the cartoon (what with everyone just reverting into their alternate modes when their partner decides to walk around), and in the Marvel comics poor Fortress Maximus had to be stuffed in a closet because Spike didn't want to be involved. IDW had it as a delicate process that could easily go either way for the two involved in the process.

Personally, the only way this has worked for me is that the process can only go well if both human and Autobot/Decepticon agree or something.

Well, the one thing I actualy "liked" about IDW's approach to the Master tech is that it was introduced as a way for Humans to control Cybertronians. It sort of made sense to me.

Speaking of which, are we going to have a shifty Sector Seven/NEST/MECH/Machination/Skywatch whatever organization on Earth? Methinks it might be good to introduce them in the Fallen thread as a bunch of investigators investigating the Cyberglyphs on the Fallen's prison or something.

I hope that we wait a very very long time before introducing any (other) master tech though. If we introduce everything in the first year of the new RPG, we'll have nothing left :lol:

Yeah. Ditto for combiners. That way they'll seem more of a threat. More OMFG IT'S A GESTALT instead of the cartoon's 'hey, it's a bunch of guys we that combine into a big idiot we can trip with a wire'. More OMFG THE HEADMASTERS ARE SO MUCH FASTER AND QUICKER than 'ho hum, the guy has a human for a head, big deal'.

Brave Maximus
2011-09-29, 05:30 PM
It's not like we have a lot of Master Tech running around atm
AFAIK, there aren't ANY right now - with Fortress Maximus being the first introduced, followed (maybe) by Skyfall, who I'm actually reconsidering as a character.

I know some other players want to play Headmasters, but have no idea how or when they want to change over.

And yes Brain Master and Breast Force are just silly.

Lastly: NEST/Sector 7/Evil Humans that use a serpent for their symbol/MECH/ETC would deffinatly be a fun and logical group(s) to bond with. Could even be interesting if the humans FORCED the bond to control TF's.

I like the idea of introducing some humans now, in the Fallen Thread.....
Poor Warcry... more PM's

Springer85
2011-09-29, 05:34 PM
As for Target Masters, I like the concept that they introduced with the Action Masters like with Rad + Lionizer, Jackpot + Sights. Those make sense to me and I'll probably even pick an action master to introduce the concept too. Eventually, if nobody else beats me to it.On second thought, I want to play an additional 'Con. *Goes browsing*

Lastly: NEST/Sector 7/Evil Humans that use a serpent for their symbol/MECH/ETC would deffinatly be a fun and logical group(s) to bond with. Could even be interesting if the humans FORCED the bond to control TF's.

That's how I would like to see it too.

Brave Maximus
2011-09-29, 05:43 PM
I think that's the best thing about the Master Tech (except the aforementioned Breast and Brains) - is that it can be adapted to the situation. Want a gun that sits on your shoulder or spoiler and can target itself - classic target master. Want a partner than can run around and help you then provide you with a BFG? Action Master TM is for you! Want to be a little robot that can be a bigger robot? You're from the planet Master! Want a squishy to natter away in your head? You've obviously visited Nebulos!

Warcry
2011-09-30, 03:39 AM
When we discussed this a while back, I think the decision we came to was that almost all of the classic gimmicks were stupid when taken at face value. So we said that we wouldn't have combiners, masters, Pretenders or the like into the game until someone could come up with a decent explanation for the technology and an interesting story hook to introduce it.

Since then we've introduced multichangers as ungodly bioweapons and Pretenders (or at least the concept of them) as a life-support system for injured robots, so there's certainly no reason why we can't do the same for any of the other old subgroups as time goes on. So if you can come up with a logical reason why your characters' tits transform into a gun, more power to you.

Brave Maximus
2011-09-30, 04:37 AM
So if you can come up with a logical reason why your characters' tits transform into a gun, more power to you.


LINE OF THE DAY!!!!

the Archive needs a "like" button....

Shine
2011-09-30, 12:56 PM
So we said that we wouldn't have combiners, masters, Pretenders or the like into the game until someone could come up with a decent explanation for the technology and an interesting story hook to introduce it.
Really? What was the problem with combiners? Out of all the Transformers' technology, that was the one I was looking forward to most. lol

Wait, what kinds of technology are happening in this game? I was under the impression that most of it was going to make an appearance at some point...

As far as Headmasters go, I'm terribly sorry, but it's a dumb concept (to a lesser degree so are Powermasters). I made a similarish thread a couple of months ago and I can't justify a smaller robot living inside of a bigger robot's head--or whatever it does: lives inside his partner's head or acts as the head while his partner is in robot form. And seriously, what goes on up there when the Headmaster is in robot form? Does the little robot actually speak, or does he only speak when the Headmaster transforms to alternate form? Thinking about it makes my brain hurt.

Targetmasters I can tolerate, not that my interest is great enough to green light a future Targetmaster. But at least the robot can provide some serious firepower for his partner.

Now, having said that, I do really like the Breast Animal partners the Breastforce have. Stupid name for them, I know, but they look great and very useful. I'm all for them!

Oh, and Mini-Cons. If Mini-Cons come into play--and the Armada Air Defense Team are allowed--I'm claiming them now. :D

Blackjack
2011-09-30, 02:34 PM
Really? What was the problem with combiners? Out of all the Transformers' technology, that was the one I was looking forward to most. lol

Mostly that it has become somewhat stale over the numerous times it has been used. Combiners are treated as big, lumbering powerhouses without much of a brain. And in the cartoon they can be tripped with a tripwire.

Not to mention that the mental bonds are never properly explored.

I think, if, say, Menasor or Devastator or whatever are introduced, they would be weapons of destruction on par with Sixshot or Omega Supreme. Maybe not Omega, but thereabouts.

Wait, what kinds of technology are happening in this game? I was under the impression that most of it was going to make an appearance at some point...

Whatever we need ;)

Oh, and Mini-Cons. If Mini-Cons come into play--and the Armada Air Defense Team are allowed--I'm claiming them now. :D

Ginrai is a Minicon.

A technoorganic minicon. Which explains all his funky powers.

Brave Maximus
2011-09-30, 04:39 PM
As far as what technology is making an appearance, Warcry pretty much said it -> what ever we need, as long as there's a good reason for it. Saying "I want 5 robots to join into one robot so they can go smashy smashy" isn't the best reason. Why not just build a bigger robot? What's the benifits of making 5 into one? If you can come up with a plausible explination, we'll toss Team Science on it and off we go ;) (or AT or Wheeljack and Perceptor or... etc).

As for the uses of Headmasters - it depends what form we're going for. I've always liked the Transector version (same with Power/God Masters). In that the body is just a body, no spark, no life. The head is actually the robot and he can run around and operate on his own, until he needs a ride, or more power, or stregth or... then he attaches to his Transector and boom, big robot!
This is actually really useful for characters like Fortress Maximus, who are so effin large, that trying any normal interaction in their full size is next to impossible. (Fortress is still huge, even with Mass shifting)

And yes, Minicons are in the RPG - but are treated the same as any other team - you'd have to claim them all individually.
Minicons are actually going to play a bit of back story in 2 of my characters....
Oh, and Ginrai. It was the only way to explain God Master powers without getting REALLY silly.

Blackjack
2011-09-30, 04:56 PM
As far as what technology is making an appearance, Warcry pretty much said it -> what ever we need, as long as there's a good reason for it.

Blackjack not Warcry :(

Blackjack is prettier than Warcry -sulks-

EDIT: just realised Warcry said the same thing, but 'whatever we need' is Blackjack quote. -still sulks-

Saying "I want 5 robots to join into one robot so they can go smashy smashy" isn't the best reason. Why not just build a bigger robot? What's the benifits of making 5 into one? If you can come up with a plausible explination, we'll toss Team Science on it and off we go ;) (or AT or Wheeljack and Perceptor or... etc).

To be fair, Team Science doesn't need much more of a reason than 'we're curious to see if it'll work', which is why they're making triple changers even though they've already made a six changer.

The Autobots, on the other hand...

As for the uses of Headmasters - it depends what form we're going for. I've always liked the Transector version (same with Power/God Masters). In that the body is just a body, no spark, no life. The head is actually the robot and he can run around and operate on his own, until he needs a ride, or more power, or stregth or... then he attaches to his Transector and boom, big robot!

This, though I also like the reverse version, that the large body is the original, and the head can transform into a smaller robot in order to interact with normal people. Kind of like how Metroplex needed Scamper and Sixsgun.

(Fortress is still huge, even with Mass shifting)

Do we have mass shifting? IIRC we never reached a conclusion on this...

Minicons are actually going to play a bit of back story in 2 of my characters....

I had Prowl order around a Minicon around, and Obsidian used to have a Minicon subordinate and have more than once protected a Minicon settlement.

Just to say.

Oh, and Ginrai. It was the only way to explain God Master powers without getting REALLY silly.

Minicons --> explains power boosts and generally badass stuff
Scorponok --> explains techno organic origin, thereby making him sort-of human
Powerlink --> allows him to combine with bigger transectors
Scorponok again --> has a Godbomber trailer in his basement

We're fans, baby. We make things like this work.

Brave Maximus
2011-09-30, 05:22 PM
Sorry ><

"As Warcry AND Blackjack said" - I just looked at the first person to say something ><

I was thinking more of getting mod approval
On that vein though, is there anything Team Science wouldn't do?

There has to be mass shifting...
if there isn't Fortress will need a Headmaster himself ><
And the other guy will... just not work lol.
Just chalk it up to a crazy Minicon Tech. Though, with it connecting to the Fallen's prision, it could actually cause some fun.

I actually didn't know we had more minicons running around - bonus

Scorponok's basement = house of "fun"


Edit: I just realized I didn't quote any of Blackjack's comments in here... I am not re-editing it in... ><

Springer85
2011-09-30, 06:03 PM
On that vein though, is there anything Team Science wouldn't do?

Tarantulas will do whatever he wants and then laugh at it like a maniac :p

Wheeljack on the other hand won't do anything unethical. He'll stretch the borders a litlle, but that's it. Right now he's the only one that managed to create a Pretender like process without the need of a Vector Computer.

He also prefers to create things that are used for defensive matters. Meaning that if he sees a reason to help create a Gestalt because it'll give the bots a strategic/defensive advantage, he'll do it. I'm sure he and Alpha Trion would have lots of fun creating crazy stuff in the lab :D

Warcry
2011-09-30, 06:55 PM
As far as Headmasters go, I'm terribly sorry, but it's a dumb concept (to a lesser degree so are Powermasters).
Yeah...Headmasters don't make much sense to me either, really. Even though people laughed about Brainmasters earlier in this thread, I think that's a much better way for a small robot to control a larger body. Why become a vital part of the larger robot's anatomy and expose yourself to attack when you could be hidden behind a foot of armour? Points for style, I guess?

And Powermasters are just silly. "Sorry, Prime. I can't go into battle until my human partner wolfs down fifty cheeseburgers." Nonsense!

Targetmasters I can tolerate, not that my interest is great enough to green light a future Targetmaster. But at least the robot can provide some serious firepower for his partner.
Targetmasters I like. It makes sense that a Minicon that turns into a gun could be more powerful than a normal handheld weapon. I'd like to see them treated more like independent characters, though, and less like the accessories they were in the 80s fiction.

Saying "I want 5 robots to join into one robot so they can go smashy smashy" isn't the best reason. Why not just build a bigger robot? What's the benifits of making 5 into one? If you can come up with a plausible explination, we'll toss Team Science on it and off we go ;) (or AT or Wheeljack and Perceptor or... etc).
Basically, yeah. I mean, five robots bolted together are liable to be less effective than if you had the five of them acting as a unit. I could see mad scientists doing it just because they could, or maybe building them as a last-ditch desperate attempt to have something that could stand against a giant like Trypticon. Maybe even the result of a failed Duocon-like experiment, where the combined robot is the 'real' character and the smaller components only have a part of his consciousness.

There's a lot of ways you could make it work if you wanted to, but thinking of gestalts strictly in terms of a weapon they don't make much sense.

Blackjack is prettier than Warcry -sulks-
I prefer 'handsome' actually. :glance:

This, though I also like the reverse version, that the large body is the original, and the head can transform into a smaller robot in order to interact with normal people. Kind of like how Metroplex needed Scamper and Sixsgun.
That's not a bad idea either, although it might actually work better with something like Breastforce. The biggest problem Headmasters have to overcome is that they lose their head when the smaller body is walking around. Not so much a problem when you're Fortress Maximus transformed into base mode, but someone like Hardhead or Chromedome is pretty well neutralized without their head.

Do we have mass shifting? IIRC we never reached a conclusion on this...
As long as it's not taken to absurd levels I don't see a problem with it. Soundwave turning from a tape deck to a 30 foot tall robot or Powerglide's robot mode being smaller than Skids is probably a bit much. But as long as your robot mode is vaguely in scale with your alt I don't think it'll cause any trouble.

Brave Maximus
2011-09-30, 07:01 PM
Maybe even the result of a failed Duocon-like experiment, where the combined robot is the 'real' character and the smaller components only have a part of his consciousness.

That's an interesting concept actually. Sort of like my old Sixwing back in the day (though, he seems a lot closer to PowerCore Combiners... and mine came first!!!)
At that point though, would it count as one character, or 5? I can actually see someone like Computron or the Micromaster 6formers starting out as one being and then being split. Maybe even Raiden (since he forms one long train...) or Railracer

As long as it's not taken to absurd levels I don't see a problem with it. Soundwave turning from a tape deck to a 30 foot tall robot or Powerglide's robot mode being smaller than Skids is probably a bit much. But as long as your robot mode is vaguely in scale with your alt I don't think it'll cause any trouble.

*looks at Fortress Maximus... then looks at this post.... then back at Fort Max*

~Some exceptions to allow for sanity are allowed... right?

Warcry
2011-09-30, 07:11 PM
That's an interesting concept actually. Sort of like my old Sixwing back in the day (though, he seems a lot closer to PowerCore Combiners... and mine came first!!!)
At that point though, would it count as one character, or 5?
That's hard to say, really. I guess it would depend on how the character(s) was going to be played. Is he combined all the time, or usually split up? Are his parts in one place, or do they go to different locations? Stuff like that.

*looks at Fortress Maximus... then looks at this post.... then back at Fort Max*

~Some exceptions to allow for sanity are allowed... right?
Fort Max is big enough that as long as he's still perceived as 'huge' by the other characters it shouldn't be an issue.

Brave Maximus
2011-09-30, 07:25 PM
Fort Max is big enough that as long as he's still perceived as 'huge' by the other characters it shouldn't be an issue.

I'm meaning more for Cerebros and Fortress Robot modes....

Anyway, I think I'm going off on a tangent...

But, since it was brought up here:

What are your (Warcry specifically) and our (RPG players in general) thoughts on Minicon Super Weapons:

The Star Saber, Skyboom Shield, Requiem Blaster, Umbral Blaster, Energon Saber... think that's it, did I miss anything?

Edit: I also know there's more mods in the RPG... but they don't post here... so Warcry gets the brunt of my questions.

Warcry
2011-09-30, 08:23 PM
If you want to play three Minicons that combine into a sword or a gun, feel free. Don't expect them to be all that much more powerful than a regular weapon of that size/type, though. We'd already agreed that Minicons shouldn't be as super-powerful as they are in Armada, so that would have to carry forward to their combined weapon modes and the like too.

Now if those Minicons happened to get an injection of Dark Energon... :glance:

Ulcrain
2011-09-30, 08:31 PM
Dark Enegons around?

On topic however, I agree with Brave. Japan did the Headmaster concept much better.

Springer85
2011-09-30, 09:50 PM
Dark Enegons around?

Eventually, yes :)

If you want to play three Minicons that combine into a sword or a gun, feel free. Don't expect them to be all that much more powerful than a regular weapon of that size/type, though. We'd already agreed that Minicons shouldn't be as super-powerful as they are in Armada, so that would have to carry forward to their combined weapon modes and the like too.

I suddenly have an inkling for playing Leader-1... :glance: Even know who to pair him with too. You know what? Consider him selected! :D

Shine
2011-10-01, 12:23 PM
Mostly that it has become somewhat stale over the numerous times it has been used. Combiners are treated as big, lumbering powerhouses without much of a brain. And in the cartoon they can be tripped with a tripwire.
This is true for the majority of them, but don't forget about Predaking, Defensor, Computron and Piranacon. They are intelligent beings, able to act accordingly and independently. So they can't all be considered to be big, dumb robots.

Not to mention that the mental bonds are never properly explored.
All the more reason for gestalts to exist.

The bonds between the combiner team members are unique and they intrigue me greatly (and other people, too, I hope). There's an abundance of potential to be had with them in terms of inter-team relationships, particularly after their gestalt has been created.

I think, if, say, Menasor or Devastator or whatever are introduced, they would be weapons of destruction on par with Sixshot or Omega Supreme. Maybe not Omega, but thereabouts.
I agree. Omega has always seemed to be the best of the "big guys". It would only make sense if he were more capable than a gestalt.

Whatever we need ;)
This is good to know. :)

If you want to play three Minicons that combine into a sword or a gun, feel free. Don't expect them to be all that much more powerful than a regular weapon of that size/type, though. We'd already agreed that Minicons shouldn't be as super-powerful as they are in Armada, so that would have to carry forward to their combined weapon modes and the like too.
This is sweet! I'm so tempted to claim the Air Defense Team!

I agree that they shouldn't be super-powerful as you say, but I think they should still be powerful nonetheless; noticeably better than most weapons. But perhaps only as good as the one who wields them to make it more balanced.

Springer85
2011-10-01, 02:48 PM
This is true for the majority of them, but don't forget about Predaking, Defensor, Computron and Piranacon. They are intelligent beings, able to act accordingly and independently. So they can't all be considered to be big, dumb robots.

Wel, Superion, Defensor, Computron and Predaking all share a common goal as a unit. Don't know about the Seacons, but if you go by the Japanese version, Snaptrap really is the only one with a sane mind and the others are basically just drones more or less.

Also, with Menasor/The Stunticons, I've always found them more effective and a bigger threat as a unit that's not combined instead of combined into Menasor.

All the more reason for gestalts to exist.

The bonds between the combiner team members are unique and they intrigue me greatly (and other people, too, I hope). There's an abundance of potential to be had with them in terms of inter-team relationships, particularly after their gestalt has been created.

I agree and I'll have to say that I'll be happy to have Tarantulas (and probably Team Science) explore that, but I agree with Warcry & Blackjack, that there has to be a reason for it. I could imagine that the Decepticons having a hard time beating Omega Supreme could considered a good reason for Team Science to explore options ;)

I agree. Omega has always seemed to be the best of the "big guys". It would only make sense if he were more capable than a gestalt.

The name alone makes him a badass :D

This is sweet! I'm so tempted to claim the Air Defense Team!

I agree that they shouldn't be super-powerful as you say, but I think they should still be powerful nonetheless; noticeably better than most weapons. But perhaps only as good as the one who wields them to make it more balanced.

Cool! Leader-1 could use some friends to interact with :)

I'm hoping that the Sword is not going to be like Wolverine's Adamantium or something. Able to cut through anything. that is. I'm fine with it being unbreakable or whatever but making it do one hit kills and ripping the planet in half in the proces is something I would rather not see. :|

Warcry
2011-10-02, 01:49 AM
The bonds between the combiner team members are unique and they intrigue me greatly (and other people, too, I hope). There's an abundance of potential to be had with them in terms of inter-team relationships, particularly after their gestalt has been created.
You can't necessarily assume that any gestalt we create will be one of the preexisting teams, though. We could just as easily make a combiner team out of Lugnut, Skywarp, Thrust and a couple other jets as Predaking or Menasor.

I agree. Omega has always seemed to be the best of the "big guys". It would only make sense if he were more capable than a gestalt.
Well, he's five miles long and has an plasma cannon powered by nuclear reactor in this universe, so he'd damn well better be. But he doesn't even have a robot mode, so the odds of him getting into a fistfight with Abominus or someone are probably pretty low. ;)

Sky Lynx is probably the most apt comparison we've got so far.

I agree that they shouldn't be super-powerful as you say, but I think they should still be powerful nonetheless; noticeably better than most weapons. But perhaps only as good as the one who wields them to make it more balanced.
I'll be honest. I'm not sold on how three airplanes that combine into something that kinda looks like a sword is going to be a better weapon than an actual blade. How would you explain that?

Blackjack
2011-10-02, 08:07 AM
On that vein though, is there anything Team Science wouldn't do?

Scorponok would never try and find the solution to the timeless conundrum of why cables will invariably tie themselves into mind-boggling knots the moment you put them in the drawer.

Scorponok's basement = house of "fun"

But there is free candy there, kids!

Edit: I just realized I didn't quote any of Blackjack's comments in here... I am not re-editing it in... ><

-Sulks even more-

Wheeljack on the other hand won't do anything unethical. He'll stretch the borders a litlle, but that's it.

For unethical Autobot shit, we have Prowl.

And Powermasters are just silly. "Sorry, Prime. I can't go into battle until my human partner wolfs down fifty cheeseburgers." Nonsense!

I've always thought Power core combiners are like Powermasters, but instead of cheeseburger-eating humans, they have Minicons that allow them to combine and stuff like that.

I'd like to see them treated more like independent characters, though, and less like the accessories they were in the 80s fiction.

This.

There's a lot of ways you could make it work if you wanted to, but thinking of gestalts strictly in terms of a weapon they don't make much sense.

The same reason humans want to build Gundam mobile suits. Rule of cool.

I prefer 'handsome' actually. :glance:

Blackjack is both prettier and handsomer than Warcry but he feels 'prettier' fits better with the whole third-person emo sulking.

The biggest problem Headmasters have to overcome is that they lose their head when the smaller body is walking around. Not so much a problem when you're Fortress Maximus transformed into base mode, but someone like Hardhead or Chromedome is pretty well neutralized without their head.

Which is why Scorponok will never be a Headmaster.

I think, just like Brave Max said, Headmasters seem to be more sensible as a method for organics to forcibly control Transformers.

The Star Saber, Skyboom Shield, Requiem Blaster, Umbral Blaster, Energon Saber... think that's it, did I miss anything?

The Blizzard Saber, the Dark Saber, the Burning Saber, the Nemesis Saber, the Cosmotector Shield, X-Dimensional versions of the original three weapons... Japanese-exclusive chase Minicons FTW!

Sentinel's Skyboom Shield is named after the 'legendary Minicon weapon', but I left it vague in case someone wants to play Dirt Boss, Mirage and Downshift.

Now if those Minicons happened to get an injection of Dark Energon... :glance:

They become the Dark Saber!

I want to play the Race Team, just to convert them into the Linkage comics' Midshift and whatever.

The Fallen now has a sudden urge to start a Minicon collection.

This is true for the majority of them, but don't forget about Predaking, Defensor, Computron and Piranacon. They are intelligent beings, able to act accordingly and independently. So they can't all be considered to be big, dumb robots.

In profile and tech specs, sure, but in the cartoon and indeed most fictional portrayals Predaking and Defensor are just as smart (or rather, not smart) as any of the others. Apart from the Japanese series, Piranacon appeared twice, three times tops over the years and didn't do much in his appearances.

Computron? Guy's the smartest, but he's like the first generation of computers, slow to reach a decision.

The bonds between the combiner team members are unique and they intrigue me greatly (and other people, too, I hope). There's an abundance of potential to be had with them in terms of inter-team relationships, particularly after their gestalt has been created.

This is :up:

I agree. Omega has always seemed to be the best of the "big guys". It would only make sense if he were more capable than a gestalt.

IIRC Warcry's Omega Supreme is going to be the 'end-all-and-be-all' of the Autobots, and that includes gestalts and stuff. And maybe even Fortress Maximus.

Which leaves the Decepticons currently standing with a grand total of one WMD: Sixshot. QED Sixshot is now as powerful as those two. [/random logic out of my ass]

I agree that they shouldn't be super-powerful as you say, but I think they should still be powerful nonetheless; noticeably better than most weapons. But perhaps only as good as the one who wields them to make it more balanced.

I'm hoping that the Sword is not going to be like Wolverine's Adamantium or something. Able to cut through anything. that is. I'm fine with it being unbreakable or whatever but making it do one hit kills and ripping the planet in half in the proces is something I would rather not see. :|

Definitely more powerful than regular weapons, but I think we'd prefer them to be 'a powerful sword' instead of 'I CAN CUTZ EVERYWUN WITH MAGIK STAR SABER SOWRD WTFLOLYEAH'.

Though please treat them as more 'three Minicons' than the Armada cartoon's 'just a sword plot device'.

I agree and I'll have to say that I'll be happy to have Tarantulas (and probably Team Science) explore that, but I agree with Warcry & Blackjack, that there has to be a reason for it. I could imagine that the Decepticons having a hard time beating Omega Supreme could considered a good reason for Team Science to explore options ;)

AN ARMY OF SIXSHOTS

Or, alternatively, Menasor.

You can't necessarily assume that any gestalt we create will be one of the preexisting teams, though. We could just as easily make a combiner team out of Lugnut, Skywarp, Thrust and a couple other jets as Predaking or Menasor.

Lugnut would combine with Skywarp? Willingly? :glance:

It's a wee bit inappropriate, but that will give Skywarp a lot of opportunities for sexual euphemism jokes. Not that he understands what the jokes would be about, being part of an asexual species and all, but still...

Well, he's five miles long and has an plasma cannon powered by nuclear reactor in this universe, so he'd damn well better be. But he doesn't even have a robot mode, so the odds of him getting into a fistfight with Abominus or someone are probably pretty low. ;)

That's why the Autobots have Fortress Maxie and Sky Lynx, then.

I'll be honest. I'm not sold on how three airplanes that combine into something that kinda looks like a sword is going to be a better weapon than an actual blade. How would you explain that?

MAGIC

TO SELL TOYS

Minicon power.

Shine
2011-10-02, 11:36 AM
Don't know about the Seacons, but if you go by the Japanese version, Snaptrap really is the only one with a sane mind and the others are basically just drones more or less
Ugh, the Japanese ruined what could have been a great combiner team. I mean, look at them! They look awesome and they have awesome colours! But, no, they sucked.

Also, with Menasor/The Stunticons, I've always found them more effective and a bigger threat as a unit that's not combined instead of combined into Menasor.
*Nods* That's what I think too. Not that the Stunticons would be a very structured and disciplined team, mind you. But that's what makes them so fun!

Cool! Leader-1 could use some friends to interact with :)

I'm hoping that the Sword is not going to be like Wolverine's Adamantium or something. Able to cut through anything. that is. I'm fine with it being unbreakable or whatever but making it do one hit kills and ripping the planet in half in the proces is something I would rather not see. :|
Definitely thinking about those Mini-Cons... Sounds like a lot of fun. :)

Nah, nothing like that. Just a powerful weapon; nothing out of the ordinary but still powerful (make sense? Probably not...).

I'll be honest. I'm not sold on how three airplanes that combine into something that kinda looks like a sword is going to be a better weapon than an actual blade. How would you explain that?
I ain't explainin' nothin'. Now you go take this here keyboard and--

I'm cool with the Air Defense Team just being that: a trio of jets. The sword aspect is a bit peculiar, so I'm happy to leave it out.

*Wants to quote Blackjack but is honest-to-God too lazy to do it*

Springer85
2011-10-02, 11:43 AM
And what if Team Science starts to experiment on Monicons and in the proces create the Star Saber?

Shine
2011-10-02, 12:07 PM
And what if Team Science starts to experiment on Monicons and in the proces create the Star Saber?
Easy answer. I'm all for it. :D

If that did happen, I would like to choose someone else's character to wield them and consequently bond with (in the way of friendship, nothing else!). I feel that would be a decent way of having them interact with the Autobots/Decepticons. Of course, that's just an idea if the possibility of the Star Saber becomes real.

Blackjack
2011-10-02, 12:09 PM
*Wants to quote Blackjack but is honest-to-God too lazy to do it*

I HATE ALL OF YOU

-sulks-

Shine
2011-10-02, 12:11 PM
I HATE ALL OF YOU

-sulks-
You shouldn't have said so much!

Springer85
2011-10-02, 12:17 PM
You shouldn't have said so much!

He's lying. I know Blackjack loves me. He searched the depths of The Pit to find me, kick me in the arse and make me return to the RPG :p

Brave Maximus
2011-10-02, 02:21 PM
The Fallen now has a sudden urge to start a Minicon collection.

You already have one character doing that... isn't it enough...


But, as they say - gotta catch them all

(I'm actually still trying to find the alt colour for the emergency Minicon team. The one with Hotspot and Smokescreen colours)

Blackjack
2011-10-02, 02:41 PM
]You shouldn't have said so much!

:o is what happen when I sleep deprived.

He's lying. I know Blackjack loves me. He searched the depths of The Pit to find me, kick me in the arse and make me return to the RPG :p

Yep, that's my fault all right! G'wan, thank me.

But I still hate all of you. So there.

You already have one character doing that... isn't it enough...

Do I?

Chaos demands that the end of the world be brought by rainbow-coloured aborable tiny robots whose every word is censored (bleep bleep bleep, what?) that combine into... stuff that looks vaguely like weapons.

And ponies. With marshmallow wings.

Warcry
2011-10-03, 05:20 AM
Scorponok would never try and find the solution to the timeless conundrum of why cables will invariably tie themselves into mind-boggling knots the moment you put them in the drawer.
Predacon would! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!

I've always thought Power core combiners are like Powermasters, but instead of cheeseburger-eating humans, they have Minicons that allow them to combine and stuff like that.
I'm not sure that's really an apt comparison. Half of them are basically Targetmasters and the other half are gestalts. Although Minicons from Armada have a lot of Powermaster-like traits.

Computron? Guy's the smartest, but he's like the first generation of computers, slow to reach a decision.
Can you tell he was written in the 80s?

IIRC Warcry's Omega Supreme is going to be the 'end-all-and-be-all' of the Autobots, and that includes gestalts and stuff. And maybe even Fortress Maximus.
Omega may disagree with you on the 'Autobot' part. Especially while loons like Sentinel are in the decision-making loop. He'll evacuate them, sure, but don't expect him to fight unless threatened.

Lugnut would combine with Skywarp? Willingly? :glance:
Willingly? Of course not. But if Lord Megatron orders it...

It's a wee bit inappropriate, but that will give Skywarp a lot of opportunities for sexual euphemism jokes. Not that he understands what the jokes would be about, being part of an asexual species and all, but still...
*ban*

If that did happen, I would like to choose someone else's character to wield them and consequently bond with (in the way of friendship, nothing else!). I feel that would be a decent way of having them interact with the Autobots/Decepticons. Of course, that's just an idea if the possibility of the Star Saber becomes real.
That's a good enough explanation for me.

Chaos demands that the end of the world be brought by rainbow-coloured aborable tiny robots whose every word is censored (bleep bleep bleep, what?) that combine into... stuff that looks vaguely like weapons.

And ponies. With marshmallow wings.
Now, now. We have several different worlds we can destroy. Why tie ourselves to one single way of destroying them, when there's so many others to explore?

Blackjack
2011-10-03, 07:29 AM
Predacon would! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!

Scorponok: "Tell Predacon not to divide by zero. If he does, he'll implode the universe.... Actually, that sounds like a fun thing. I'll help him."


Omega may disagree with you on the 'Autobot' part. Especially while loons like Sentinel are in the decision-making loop. He'll evacuate them, sure, but don't expect him to fight unless threatened.

Sentinel's not stupid. He's just egomaniacal. And a huge dick.

Willingly? Of course not. But if Lord Megatron orders it...

Skywarp is as excited as Spongebob Squarepants at the thought.

*ban*

Skywarp: *teleports, dodges ban, sticks tongue out*

Now, now. We have several different worlds we can destroy. Why tie ourselves to one single way of destroying them, when there's so many others to explore?

Chaos demands new ways on how the world is going to end.

Fallen: "This morning I have a vision that Unicron wants the world to end with the Insecticons as his main heralds. Unicron feels a kinship to their eternal hunger. Oh, and also, I'm supposed to go around houses and give out pamphlets for my morning show. If you donate to the Church of Entropy, we will guarantee that a divine lightning bolt will strike those that offend you! Chaos wins... and makes money in the meantime as well."

Ulcrain
2011-11-26, 10:39 PM
On a idea, we could have team sciance invent the gestal progress to combat Omega Supreme.