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relak
2012-04-16, 01:43 AM
So the story just ends at "THe Ascending"???

Seriously??
And we're supposed to believe that Big Convoy, The Pack and even Grimlock ended up as mindless vehicon drones by the time Beast Machines comes about???

I was hoping the Beast Wars comics would be a trilogy.
I wonder whats keeping IDW from making just one more miniseries that shows how the Maximals reacted to Megatron's planet wide coup.

AT least show them putting up a fight and going out in one final blaze of glory.

Did the series sell badly???

On a side note, how does the Gathering and AScending tie into the other comics. Is it connected only to the animated series? Or the other comics? or Perhaps IDW's G1?

Cliffjumper
2012-04-16, 06:52 AM
http://tfarchive.com/comics/idw/sales.php
BEAST WARS: THE GATHERING 058 - FEB06/#1 - 34,047 094 - MAR06/#2 - 25,737 087 - APR06/#3 - 23,966 100 - MAY06/#4 - 22,590

BEAST WARS: THE ASCENDING 160 - OCT07/#1 - 14,223 173 - OCT07/#2 - 12,327 161 - DEC07/#3 - 11,711 156 - JAN08/#4 - 11,493
Dwindling sales seem most likely (while those figures aren't abysmal per se, the 8k drop between minis probably set off a few alarms) - largely negative reception, having plenty of other titles and Furman effectively being canned were probably also contributing factors.

EDIT: IIRC it's in-continuity with the BW cartoon (just in a stupid, pointless way) and has nothing to do with any of the other comics.

Skyquake87
2012-04-16, 08:17 AM
Eh, I hope there's no more Beast Wars comics...at least from IDW.

The Gathering was okay, although as Cliffy will tell you does give Furman another opportunity to wheel out Grimlock. As we have been discussing in another thread, this mini works as its a proper mini series - it has a beginning, middle and end. Whilst I think the temporal shift is bobbins and there are far too many characters introduced (including some in TM2 bodies - which would require exposure to that alien drive that Megatron possessed...) to give anything other than a vague outline too, it sets out its stall, tells a simple straight forward story. Job done. It also features some of the best colouring IDW have ever managed.

The Ascending, by comparrison is awful. Unfamiliar as i am with the Japanese BW, the grafting of those elements was handled really badly, plus Unicron. Again. The Angolmois energy being like bad spinach was dreadful and the killing off of Razorbeast was no doubt Furman being hardcore, but its just rubbish. The artwork from Fig comes at a time he decides he's had enough of drawing big robots so its rushed and not up to his usual standards. He must have left pretty late in the day too, as poor old Guido has to step and seems to be working under duress. Having introduced a ton of characters in the first mini, he then compounds his error by introducing even more in the second and there's just too much going on to be given adequate page time. The ending is pish too and the colouring is dreadful.

In all honesty, as much as I would like to see some Beast Wars comics, the TV show did such a good job of opening and concluding that era that further discussion and debate is irrelevant, and that is ultimately how I view these comics.

Then we have the sourcebook. I was so looking forward to having the toy profiles collected, but no, they are all re-written to fit into IDWs Beast Universe and to refelct the TV show. The involvement of Ben Yee also hamstrings the whole enterprise as he has a massive fangasm cramming in too much reference to every facet of transformers old and new, making BW seem less original and fresh than it was, well cheers for that. There's also the p*sspoor explaining away of characters with toys that didn't appear in the show (Transmetal Airazor, for example) which leads to some awful b*ll*cks about alt modes being stored in subspace or some such. I'd have just been honest and hold my hand up and say the toys don't quite match the telly series, so don't start crying about it. Its not like there's a precedent for this or anything...

Sigh.

IDW.

*blows enormous raspberry*

Cliffjumper
2012-04-16, 08:26 AM
In all honesty, as much as I would like to see some Beast Wars comics, the TV show did such a good job of opening and concluding that era that further discussion and debate is irrelevant, and that is ultimately how I view these comics.

That for me would be the clincher - BW/BM form a pretty solid finished story. I see little need for anything set before, during and after that wouldn't be dull joining-the-dots. To be fair the IDW comics do make the sensible enough basic step of avoiding the cast of the TV show, but they bluntly completely miss the reason the show's so good and surely must have ended up pleasing basically nobody, unless there really were thousands of people losing sleep at the idea of B'Boom and Optimus Minor never getting to do anything. Much like the way the Movie comics always missed the point by either bringing in Loads And Loads of characters or just turning people into ersatz G1 characters.

Fully agree on the sourcebooks being complete fail as well.

relak
2012-04-16, 02:10 PM
That for me would be the clincher - BW/BM form a pretty solid finished story. I see little need for anything set before, during and after that wouldn't be dull joining-the-dots. To be fair the IDW comics do make the sensible enough basic step of avoiding the cast of the TV show, but they bluntly completely miss the reason the show's so good and surely must have ended up pleasing basically nobody, unless there really were thousands of people losing sleep at the idea of B'Boom and Optimus Minor never getting to do anything. Much like the way the Movie comics always missed the point by either bringing in Loads And Loads of characters or just turning people into ersatz G1 characters.

Fully agree on the sourcebooks being complete fail as well.

Come on. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that the era during megatons conquest of cyber.tron has lots of potential. Where did he get the virus from? How did he amass the resources for a planet wide coup.? Did the maximals resist? I had always imagined it would be the next g2. Lots of badass senseless deaths.

Cliffjumper
2012-04-16, 03:01 PM
"Badass senseless deaths" of who? A bunch of characters we've never heard of and don't care about? Fine for 3H or FP or someone else with the clout to make their fanfic into real comics. Not so much for the rest of us.

gregles
2012-04-16, 03:35 PM
I kind of liked the angle dreamwave were going to take a beast wars comic in. The mini teaser they printed was full of intrigue and mystery. I couldn't tell but it seemed that they were going to ignore beast machines and go off in a tangent storyline.

as for idw it suferd from way too many characters with some with pretty cool designs some really ugly but non with any kind of personality kind of the opposite to the tv show really. It had one cool thing about them tho, magmatron he was cool villain .When I saw him in the gathering I didn't know about the Japanese beast wars so I thought that his crazy and cool design was just something they made up for the comic and was way too out there to exist as real life toy when I found out he actually existed I had to own him

Cliffjumper
2012-04-16, 04:19 PM
IIRC Razorbeast's second-hand value on ebay rocketed after the mini too.

inflatable dalek
2012-04-16, 07:34 PM
Even with the tendancy for initially positive feedback to turn sour I don't think there's ever been such a drop off over an IDW series as there was for the two Beast Wars minis, we all were pretty much unanimous in our praise for issue one but by the 8th I don't think even the maddest Furman fan had much love for it.

The initial set up is actually fairly promising, being basically Beast Wars: The Next Generation, a sequel rather than trying to shoehorn new adventures into the main narrative. The problem is it's a set up for an ongoing series, or at least an ongoing series of mini-series. Furman was obviously expecting to do lots more, hence the sheer number of characters and plot threads set up.

Obviously the dwindling sales (Christ, imagine a world where an IDW comic sold 34 hundred issues. It's worth noting the "Disapointing" final is about par for the course these days) did cause a rethink, because after spending four issues setting up this spin off series the next four spend all their time shutting it down. Hard. In a comical and stupid fashion. Razorbeast's death should be impressive, but it happens off page like an afterthought and just makes you realise he was the only Maximal in the whole book with a personality.

And yes, the Unicron and Botcon Toy stuff is basically a massive "**** Off" to anyone not versed in the stuff, none of its properly explained and worse than that how it does or doesn't fit in with the Japanese shows is deeply confusing to anyone who is familiar with it. Apparently the only reason it doesn't properly incorporate the Japanese shows is than Ben Yee finds them "Silly". From a series that gave us an episode that was based around killer farts.

And how much of a mess the Sourcebook is can't be understated. Characters randomly changed, toys where the only difference between them was the name they had in the East and West got different profiles (the equivalent of giving Cosmos and Adams separate profiles. The common sense approach would have been to go with whichever one of the two had appeared in media and profile them even if you used the Western name), profiles that were synopsis rather than profiles and on and on and on.

gregles
2012-04-16, 10:22 PM
I think we can all agree idw had its faults if they was to do another beast wars comic which would work how do you think they should attempt it? any cool ideas?

relak
2012-04-16, 11:39 PM
"Badass senseless deaths" of who? A bunch of characters we've never heard of and don't care about? Fine for 3H or FP or someone else with the clout to make their fanfic into real comics. Not so much for the rest of us.

Well, for me I know those characters having watched the Japan beast wars series. I viewed the comics as a sort of American remake of that series.

Gregles>>lio convoy, the pack, grimlock and the survivors of the ascending must deal with mysterious disappearances of maximals. It is soon revealed that be megatron is behind it all and that a maximal traitor is helping them. As he is growing in power, meg prepares to unleash the transformation virus, backed by a battalion of vehicle drones. The maximals launch a last ditch attempt to stop him and many are killed by vehicle drones when they find out the drones used to be former allies.in the meantime, grimlock and a small team pursue the traitor off planet. They catch up to the traitor but in the battle, their ship is trashed and they are stranded. The maximals on cyber.tron almost succeed but just as lio is about to deal the fatal blow to megatron, the virus is unleashed thus defeating the maximals.
Megatron is triumphant.
In the epilogue we see a familiar autobit shuttle arrive in cyber tron airspace...

Skyquake87
2012-04-17, 07:38 AM
Megatron cooking up his virus and dumping it on Cybertron just doesn't have enough to sustain a series though. It'd be like Outbreak or Contagion.

I don't need to see "awesome badass deaths" (jesus, who does?), the imagined horror of the set up in Beast Machines is far far worse than anything that could be commited to page and really does not - and should not- be elaborated on.

relak
2012-04-17, 08:25 AM
Megatron cooking up his virus and dumping it on Cybertron just doesn't have enough to sustain a series though. It'd be like Outbreak or Contagion.

I don't need to see "awesome badass deaths" (jesus, who does?), the imagined horror of the set up in Beast Machines is far far worse than anything that could be commited to page and really does not - and should not- be elaborated on.
Not if we see it from MEgatron's POV

There are so many questions to be answered
1) How did he make the virus? Megatron was never the "genetic genius" that TArantulus was. He most likely had help.
- No one else noticed that the Virus spread in a green cloud similar to Anglomois?? Perhaps a remaining agent of Unicron?
-- That would explain the seemingly magical quality of the virus to revert Transmetal 2 Maximals to their original beast modes.

2) Nightscream himself said that there were survivors who were not immediately affected by the virus
- Didnt those survivors head to the source of the virus explosion (since nightscream recounted that the virus emmited from a single source in the city, there is at least some knowledge about where megatron launched it from)

Four issues should be more than enough to cover that story without being too long

Issue 1 can deal with MEgatron's motivations behind the planet wide coup and his hatred toward his organic component (despite his Transmetal 2 form being immensely powerful)

Issue 2 can deal with how he came into contact with his collaborator and how he created the virus

Issue 3 deals with the Virus' release and fallout on the population as well as how the more notable characters like THe Pack and Big Convoy deal with it. The MAximal Elders are assisinated by the first wave of Vehicons which proceed to hunt down the survivors.

Issue 4 will be the "last stand" issue with the survivors launching a last ditch against Megatron. Stuck in beast mode, they fall to the Vehicon army in a blaze of glory. Issue ends with the arrival of Optimus Primal's Maximals.

gregles
2012-04-17, 09:13 AM
fitting any extra story around the existing beast wars story is hard as the story with the maximals and predacons on earth in the cartoon is very self contained and there isn't much room to cram any extra storyline between this and its sequel beast machines either. the idw clearly struggled with this as the stories could be argued were a little over-thought, complicated and forgot to give there characters sympathetic personalities. I have also read that comic set just before they time jumped mostly cybertron which got me thinking would extra storylines set before going to pre-historic earth actually be beast wars at all? its not like there would be that many beast modes

If I was to do some extra beast wars fiction (as I mentioned with the dreamwave mini-comic) maybe do a kind of alternative sequel to beast machines. Given that the beast wars franchise is built on time travel it wouldn't be that ridiculous for them to do this. Maybe some maximals or predacons from the future fled megatrons transformation virus and traveled back in time to stop the maximuls with the captured megatron from taking off from earth. these rouges would have then have to get beast modes themselves. I would gradually phase in some of the cooler Japanese characters but try and give them as varied personalities as possible and try and add an extra original unexplained mystery to the story so the storyline wasn't just going round in circles.

If hasbro has already closed the book on the original beast wars story which is fair enough as it has been a success for them and we don't want to see the beast wars carrying on for the sake of it until all quality control drains out of it, maybe they could elaborate on the animated beast era or give prime a beast era. In prime they have talked several times about ancient cybertronians leaving artefacts on earth and that army which perished on earth which was resurrected by megatron in darkness rising could have been from the pre-historic time and have had beast alt modes. This would make a prime beast wars a bit depressing as if the eventually likeable casts ultimate fate is to be turned into a zombie bots it could have a element of tragedy. Maybe this prime beast cast could discover that unicron is at the centre of earth and they sacrifice themselves to keep unicron asleep and a secret. just my idea.

I know this is slightly off subject but if hasbro wanted to ever do a modern beast wars series with modern C.G.I. this could really make it look cool, imagine dinosaur bots which alt mode looks as photo realistic as the dinosaurs in jurassic park or an optimus primal which looks as realistic as the monkey in the recent planet of the apes movie, it could make there transformation to robot amazing, strange and almost scary to watch. If this was mixed with backgrounds with look more photo realistic with lighting which looks more like daylight rather than electric light of the original this could all add up to make a new beast wars a whole new experience. What do you lot think?

relak
2012-04-17, 01:25 PM
King Kong Vs the T-Rex in PeterJackson's movie is how i envision Optimus Primal Vs Megatron and Dinobot in beast modes.
Minus the woman.

inflatable dalek
2012-04-17, 06:53 PM
I think the route to go would have been to incorporate BW into the Spotlight series, small self contained one off stories about the actual TV cast.

relak
2012-04-18, 12:44 AM
I think the route to go would have been to incorporate BW into the Spotlight series, small self contained one off stories about the actual TV cast.
that would have worked.

I always felt that the DW Beast Wars story in the Summer Special was more like a RAttrap spotlight.

OR they could have one-shots that fleshed out deleted scenes from the original series. Like that bit about Dinobot's spark returning to Dinobot II

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-04-19, 07:50 PM
To me a better idea would be to an all new different Beast Wars series set in the IDW G1 Universe.

relak
2012-04-20, 12:14 AM
To me a better idea would be to an all new different Beast Wars series set in the IDW G1 Universe.

I originally thought the comics would eventually tie into IDW's G1.