PDA

View Full Version : After All Hail Megatron...


Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-22, 06:53 AM
I'm new here, I'm not ready for an initiation ritual ^_^'


Anyways, after aforemention Magnum Opus, I just can't take the guy seriously anymore. I mean, everytime I see Megatron in any shape or form I keep seeing the skinhead retard going on a rant about how he totally planned everything before getting shot in the face by the establishment th- I mean, Spike Witwicky:(


Anyone with similar feelings?

Knightdramon
2013-01-22, 09:50 AM
Shit happens ;)

After the first 13 or so issues of the ongoing and especially Chaos Theory, I don't really doubt Megatron. And in AHM, after around half his troops turned on him, he could still hold on his own...that's not light stuff mate :D

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-22, 10:28 AM
Shit happens ;)

After the first 13 or so issues of the ongoing and especially Chaos Theory, I don't really doubt Megatron. And in AHM, after around half his troops turned on him, he could still hold on his own...that's not light stuff mate :D


I haven't checked out Chaos theory, as it isn't in my library, I don't know any way to, uh, 'acquire' it online, and I haven't been following comic discussions since AHM, I can't know for sure, but even TFP, with it's reasonably sane and intelligent Megatron, couldn't convince me, well, I don't have high hopes:confused:



A big problem with IDW is the inconsistency of character power levels. On one hand, Megatron is so powerful that he could:

1) Bitch-slap Optimus without ultra energon

2) Single-handedly flatten Jeruselum

3) Outmuscle goddamn Devastator


On the other hand, he's so flimsy that the Shockwave gun could put him in a coma.


If we are supposed to believe that Megatron does not have the resilience of a dirigible, than the alternative explanation is that USA reverse-engineered, miniaturized and improved on cybertronian tech within one freakin' year.*


*Moments like this makes me wonder why Michael Bay gets so much pinko vitriol

inflatable dalek
2013-01-22, 11:34 AM
Yeah, the inconsistent silly writing on Megatron is one of the many problems with AHM.

I'd second Chaos Theory as well worth a read for rehabilitating the character. If you've a device that supports it both issues (22 and 23 of the original ongoing, writtn by James Roberts rather than Mike Costa, thankfully) are still on sale at Comixology. I believe for 99 cents/50ish pence each. The framing device is somewhat related to the ongoing plots but is fairly self explanatory and the flashback story is entirely self contained and some of the best writing Megatron and Prime/Pax have ever had.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-22, 11:42 AM
I have a problem though Dalek:


1) I'm sort of working-class. My mother ain't risking buying stuff online for me.


2) There was the whole "IDW comics not available in Europe" deal mentioned a while ago and I'm not sure if it hit my country or not.


I was kind of hoping for, uh, under-the-market types:halo:

Summerhayes
2013-01-22, 05:22 PM
My mother ain't risking buying stuff online for me.
I bet you're younger than me aren't you? Ha!
It's not a great risk, as its quite cheap and one you have it is yours.

2) There was the whole "IDW comics not available in Europe" deal mentioned a while ago and I'm not sure if it hit my country or not.
If you're in England, not an issue. Anywhere else in Europe, umm .. . pass.


I was kind of hoping for, uh, under-the-market types:halo:
What kind of board do you think this is!? A stupid and unsubtle one that does that sort of thing in the open where a quick Google search can show every word that was said?



Anyhoo, on the subject of Megatron, he comes across a lot better in more recent issues where he has been often discussed and rarely seen, besides flashbacks, which has given the characters reputation room to grow without losing every week.

Red Dave Prime
2013-01-22, 09:32 PM
What kind of board do you think this is!? A stupid and unsubtle one that does that sort of thing in the open where a quick Google search can show every word that was said?


I'm a frequent downloader of stuff but only if I'm planning to but it or already have it. Despite the up and downs of IDWs stuff I do want them to continue what they do.

The only thing I havent paid real money for is Regen One, because I really dont think its worth my money. (I did get the #0 issue of it)

inflatable dalek
2013-01-22, 09:51 PM
General board policy is we don't formally share links to in print/copyrighted material but we don't pass judgement on people who do get their comics that way (the site itself is of course full of copyrighted imagery used without permission so it would be rather hypocritical if we did).

For anyone who is looking for such things, Google is, as they say, your friend. A search for the story you're after on the big torrent sites may reap rewards.


[And for what it's worth, Red Dave Prime's method is how I first read Last Stand of the Wreckers before commiting to the trade. And the hardback. And to the making of my James Roberts shrine cum prison.]

Denyer
2013-01-22, 11:25 PM
General ethos of "if you like it and want to see more, buy and support". I have several shelves of books that are a direct result of reading scans, library copies (when I was younger) and lends from friends. It's much the same with CDs and DVDs. Also, scans tend to turn up before the paper copies arrive in the mail.

I personally wouldn't recommend torrents unless it's something where the IP owners aren't minded to pursue people and you might have a reasonable moral leg to stand on; eg, BBC shows as a license payer. File hosts are a better bet. As a very generic tip, google for anything and add "rar" after it.

The way I'm enjoying things like LSoTW and MTMTE is by pretending virtually nothing happened between the end of Escalation and them, just a fill-in-the-blanks "the war is in an apparently serious ceasefire period".

I bet you're younger than me aren't you
Someone has to be...

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-23, 12:47 AM
I bet you're younger than me aren't you? Ha!
It's not a great risk, as its quite cheap and one you have it is yours.

I know it's not risky to buy stuff online (my aunt does it), but Mother still doesn't want to :/


Besides, imports run high taxes in my land:rant:


P.S. How old are you?


If you're in England, not an issue. Anywhere else in Europe, umm .. . pass.


Former British colony (doesn't care to reveal location, loons like Cloudstrifer/Bowspearer might come after me for infidleity/nazism:glance:) so I can't be anywhere in Europe. Still would nice to confirm availability, though the first problem still remains.



What kind of board do you think this is!? A stupid and unsubtle one that does that sort of thing in the open where a quick Google search can show every word that was said?


Apologies for poor 'net Fu:|


Anyhoo, on the subject of Megatron, he comes across a lot better in more recent issues where he has been often discussed and rarely seen, besides flashbacks, which has given the characters reputation room to grow without losing every week.


I haven't gotten around to MTMTE, but I agree. An ominous "Big Brother"-styled tyrant is more intimidating than a Commodus patishe:D

Terome
2013-01-24, 10:53 AM
The way I'm enjoying things like LSoTW and MTMTE is by pretending virtually nothing happened between the end of Escalation and them, just a fill-in-the-blanks "the war is in an apparently serious ceasefire period".



Hey, that just about works if you squint. The Autobots skip out from Earth, the Decepticon army are left to fall afoul of the Reapers, something something Wreckers, Nova Prime and co. crop up on Cybertron and do wacky bad guy stuff, something something Death Of Optimus Prime. Almost makes a lick of sense!

inflatable dalek
2013-01-24, 10:56 AM
IDW have done comics not written by James Roberts?

Knightdramon
2013-01-24, 01:59 PM
I'm probably in the extreme minority that likes AHM, right?

I mean, the Decepticons are finally being shown to kill and obliterate cities after 25 years, drawing [by Guido Guidi] is fantastic, the autobots are stranded on Cybertron with a swarm of oil-thirsty cannibalistic half forms resulting from a freak experiment, and about to turn on each other, there's a traitor among them seeking resolution and even has a big battle at the end.

Maybe the execution of it all [and Prime's revival] was somewhat lacking, but that's some nice stuff there!!

Anyways, Megatron has one portrayal so far on his power levels; batright insane and off the scale!

He survives an all out assault by Sentinel Prime's full arsenal, he survives almost being drained by Zeta Prime, a fistful of Metroplex, being shot at by Cybetronian technology AND having his head bashed in by Optimus, a fight with a being comprised of thousands of Cybertronians...and those are *some* of his on-page battles!

Seriously, for me, half the appeal of Megatron is that for all the pseudo mysticism that all the Primes follow with the matrix, their different goals, their different ways of ruling [including Rodimus, we have 6 named Primes in the IDW universe so far], Megatron is just...plain old Megatron. No matrix, no senate, no fancy wings, no connection to Primus or whatever...just a tyrant that not only has to be the strongest there is, but has to watch his back from his own troops as well!

inflatable dalek
2013-01-24, 02:10 PM
I think the one place I was too hard on it first time round was Guido's art. I still think there are place the bright crisp cartoon character models don't suit the tone the script is aiming for (bits like Devastator drowning thousands of fleeing New Yorkers are really trying too hard to be dark and gritty)... But as I find the script bobbins I don't care. It's just lovely stuff. How lovely being thrown into sharp relief by how... misjudged the style on the following Ongoing was.

There are sporadic good bits, mostly in the first half. The fresh take on Frenzy, Wheeljack's bonkers plan that works because Cliffjumper is OCD... Err... the Hutchinson covers.

The destruction of the cities would have a lot more impact for me if the book was consistent about it. How much of the planet they've leveled seems to vary wildly from issue to issue. Hell, even how much of New York has been ripped down and rebuilt is never the same two issues in a row.

Cyberstrike nTo
2013-01-24, 04:06 PM
Despite all it flaws I still find AHM the best TF comic series IDW has done to date with Chaos Theory is a very close second.

Warcry
2013-01-24, 04:52 PM
Never been a big fan of Megatron as a character. His portrayal over the years has been all over the map, so AHM's poor handling of the character really just felt like more of the same to me. No one ever really seems to know what to do with the guy, and he swings from a brilliant supervillain to a raving madman to an ignorant thug to an anti-hero who went too far on such a regular basis that I'm honestly happier with Transformers fiction when he's not in it. Shockwave, Soundwave, Ratbat, Scorponok, Bludgeon, Galvatron and in recent years Overlord have all proven to be more interesting lead villains than Megatron, because they've got consistent, understandable personalities and motivations.

I've never really been a fan of AHM either. I don't think it's terrible, and it's certainly better than most of Costa's run and no worse than most of Furman's. The biggest problem with the story -- and IMO the root cause of all the other, smaller problems -- is that McCarthy was trying to tell a story that didn't work well in comic form. AHM would have made a great big, dumb Bay-esque action film, but a lot of the big action scenes that are supposed to carry a lot of impact fell flat for me in comic form. On the other hand, the spotlights that tied into the series were quite good -- Blurr and Cliffjumper were notable for giving characterization backstory to two characters who'd been nothing more than bland ciphers before -- so in hindsight I can't judge McCarthy too harshly.

Auntie Slag
2013-01-24, 05:10 PM
I liked some of the Costa stuff too. Especially the way Spike took out Scrapper, I don't know why that sequence gets such a hard time in the fandom. Similarly I liked the first few issues leading up to the Menasor incident, and the Thundercracker elements.

I also like Megatron: Origin. The arts heavy going, and the story isn't lacking in places, but I like big chunks of its ideas. Its just that it's outclassed by Chaos Theory and MTMTE, the former which has (I agree with Warcry), finally given Megatron a focus for his character rather than the bonkers loon interpretation that he never was.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-26, 02:29 AM
I'm probably in the extreme minority that likes AHM, right?

I mean, the Decepticons are finally being shown to kill and obliterate cities after 25 years, drawing [by Guido Guidi] is fantastic, the autobots are stranded on Cybertron with a swarm of oil-thirsty cannibalistic half forms resulting from a freak experiment, and about to turn on each other, there's a traitor among them seeking resolution and even has a big battle at the end.


I'm afraid i'm with Dalek here, we barely seen the Decepticons obliterate one city, let alone the the entire world, or even galaxy. New York alternates being a Decepticon Fortress to being slightly run down, Israel and China gets forgotten after #6, and France wasn't even touched!


Anyways, Megatron has one portrayal so far on his power levels; batright insane and off the scale!

He survives an all out assault by Sentinel Prime's full arsenal, he survives almost being drained by Zeta Prime, a fistful of Metroplex, being shot at by Cybetronian technology AND having his head bashed in by Optimus, a fight with a being comprised of thousands of Cybertronians...and those are *some* of his on-page battles!

Seriously, for me, half the appeal of Megatron is that for all the pseudo mysticism that all the Primes follow with the matrix, their different goals, their different ways of ruling , Megatron is just...plain old Megatron. No matrix, no senate, no fancy wings, no connection to Primus or whatever...just a tyrant that not only has to be the strongest there is, but has to watch his back from his own troops as well!


And yet a punk-ass bitch like Spike Witwicky took him down, with a cheap knock-off no less.


Despite all it flaws I still find [i]AHM the best TF comic series IDW has done to date with Chaos Theory is a very close second.

But you don't like the live-action movies.


Is it just me, or are your opinions inconsistent:confused:

inflatable dalek
2013-01-26, 12:54 PM
I'm afraid i'm with Dalek here, we barely seen the Decepticons obliterate one city, let alone the the entire world, or even galaxy. New York alternates being a Decepticon Fortress to being slightly run down, Israel and China gets forgotten after #6, and France wasn't even touched!


I think all that, and many of the books other issues boil down to our own friend, the thing I've foamed at the mouth about before: Piss poor editing. AHM blatantly flams about all over the place as it desperately responds to criticism resulting in all sorts of oddities. Why I'm not sure as sales were steady (if not the big ball achingly super super sales McCarthy came on here to lie about) so they'd have been better off sticking to their guns for the people who presumably did like it. Andy Schmidt was basically useless across his entire run as chief wasn't he?

And of course France (and seemingly most of Europe, I think Coda basically forgot China got attacked so Sparkplug could have a rant about how the two representatives don't know what's its been like for the US...) was left untouched so we could see how lilly livered and cowardly those stinking European bastards are compared to the heroic against all odds God Damn Heroes of the U.S.Of.A.


[And before someone points it out, I know McCarthy is Australian. That doesn't actually prevent him from writing an "AMERICA!!!!!!!!!" book, even if that's really odd...]

I think the most telling thing McCarthy ever said was a response to complaints about the first issue where he said no one would call a movie crap after the first five minutes and everyone should wait and see.

Which manages to completely miss the point that he's not writing a movie, but working in a diffent medium and format. AHM is serial storytelling, you can and should get something extra from rereading the thing in one go but each instalment still needs to work in and of itself, rather than waiting around for issue 12 to be able to go "Hey, it wasn't crap after all!".

And that ignores the fact that I suspect most of us have switched channels on a film if it seems crap after five minutes.

Knightdramon
2013-01-26, 03:53 PM
And yet a punk-ass bitch like Spike Witwicky took him down, with a cheap knock-off no less.



That shot just about paralyzed him for one second, which Prime took advantage of and hit the exact same spot with Meg's own fusion cannon, essentially shattering his frontal lobe.

And hey, humans reverse engineered Battle suits and killing weapons from technology acquired from Swindle, so imagine the riffle being reverse engineered from Shockwave's arm itself. The same guy who almost OHKO five dinobots, Scorponok and at least one Omega Sentinel all by himself :p

The fact that Megatron's head didn't burn into a crisp from a blast of a gun from that technology says something!!

Cyberstrike nTo
2013-01-26, 10:26 PM
But you don't like the live-action movies.


Is it just me, or are your opinions inconsistent:confused:

Where I ever said that I didn't like the LAM movies?

Red Dave Prime
2013-01-27, 01:12 AM
That shot just about paralyzed him for one second, which Prime took advantage of and hit the exact same spot with Meg's own fusion cannon, essentially shattering his frontal lobe.

And hey, humans reverse engineered Battle suits and killing weapons from technology acquired from Swindle, so imagine the riffle being reverse engineered from Shockwave's arm itself. The same guy who almost OHKO five dinobots, Scorponok and at least one Omega Sentinel all by himself :p

The fact that Megatron's head didn't burn into a crisp from a blast of a gun from that technology says something!!

Yeah, I think it's often overlooked that Megatron has just come out of a fight with Devastator and is in the middle of a tussle with Prime when Spike hits the super-shot.

Its still shit but its not like he is taking a pristine Megatron out with just one hit. As you say, the final blow is a heavy whack from Optimus. So for those of you who dont like it, you cant just skip the part where Spike shots Megatron and imagine that Prime simply fights back.

Everyones a winner with selective editing!

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-27, 03:32 AM
That shot just about paralyzed him for one second, which Prime took advantage of and hit the exact same spot with Meg's own fusion cannon, essentially shattering his frontal lobe.

And hey, humans reverse engineered Battle suits and killing weapons from technology acquired from Swindle, so imagine the riffle being reverse engineered from Shockwave's arm itself. The same guy who almost OHKO five dinobots, Scorponok and at least one Omega Sentinel all by himself :p

The fact that Megatron's head didn't burn into a crisp from a blast of a gun from that technology says something!!

In one year, in one year! Last I recall Sector 7 did not have any mini fusion cannons, despite having Megatron for 40-50 years.


Where I ever said that I didn't like the LAM movies?


You said this:

Anyone got that Darth Vader "NOOOO!" meme? Because that sums up my feelings for this.



Yeah, I think it's often overlooked that Megatron has just come out of a fight with Devastator and is in the middle of a tussle with Prime when Spike hits the super-shot.

Its still shit but its not like he is taking a pristine Megatron out with just one hit. As you say, the final blow is a heavy whack from Optimus. So for those of you who dont like it, you cant just skip the part where Spike shots Megatron and imagine that Prime simply fights back.

Everyones a winner with selective editing!

Must have missed that part, point taken.

Denyer
2013-01-27, 12:04 PM
Everyones a winner with selective editing!

Yeah, and there might be as many as four issues of AHM left afterwards.

Cyberstrike nTo
2013-01-27, 06:14 PM
I forgot to ask why does my opinion of AHM and Chaos Theory have to do with my opinions of Bay and the LAMs?

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-28, 02:49 AM
I forgot to ask why does my opinion of AHM and Chaos Theory have to do with my opinions of Bay and the LAMs?

Maybe it's because lots of people can go on about how "teh sux" Bay is and then go on about how "teh deep" McCarthy is.

Cyberstrike nTo
2013-01-30, 05:12 PM
Maybe it's because lots of people can go on about how "teh sux" Bay is and then go on about how "teh deep" McCarthy is.


I felt that both the first LAM and AHM that they both were equal to me entertainment wise.

However I was far more entertained more by AHM than I ever was Revenge of the Fallen and Dark of the Moon.

In AHM I felt that the Decepticons were threatening and downright terrifying, that I didn't know how the Autobots were going to win. The humans in AHM were no where near as annoying as the characters in the second and third films, and etc.

I knew that when Bay was announced as director on the first film that it was going to be a popcorn movie, and I have no problems with that. He makes great popcorn movies. I also think after 3 films Bay has at best very little or at worse nothing left to add to the franchise if he was going to be executive producer or something on the fourth film and a new director I would be excited. Because new blood brings new ideas and a fresh perspective to the franchise and it keeps it from getting stale.

Knightdramon
2013-01-30, 09:45 PM
In AHM I felt that the Decepticons were threatening and downright terrifying, that I didn't know how the Autobots were going to win. The humans in AHM were no where near as annoying as the characters in the second and third films, and etc.


Yeah, AHM utilizes most cartoon Decepticons VERY well when it comes to scenes of shock and awe, even when it's only implied that they're murdering people. Below are some of the most memorable scenes for me.

Scene 1: When Soundwave ejects Frenzy from his chest and it goes on a delusional, illusion and horrific slaughter of most USA troops. The fact that both the enemy AND Frenzy suffer from the sonic wave of insanity is awesome.

Scene 2: Devastator combining and destroying the underwater tunnels of Manhattan\New York [New York? I'm mixing them up in that scene], crushing and drowning tons of people, while the seekers blow out the bridges just above that.

Scene 3: Astrotrain using the metro tracks to find refugees and transform to crush them to death.

It should be noted that what made the scenes more powerful was that each main Decepticon [Frenzy, Devastator, Astrotrain] remained\was drawn silent through it.

Scene 4, much later on, with two of the reflector trio having cornered some humans while Starscream encounters the third. Since [at least on that series] they each spoke through the other, the one Starscream finds mumbles about while looking gloomy how easily humans snap, tear and scream, terrifyingly implying what his two brothers are up to with those humans.

Now THAT'S a scene, regardless of if somebody likes AHM or not!

Cyberstrike nTo
2013-01-30, 11:50 PM
Yeah, AHM utilizes most cartoon Decepticons VERY well when it comes to scenes of shock and awe, even when it's only implied that they're murdering people. Below are some of the most memorable scenes for me.

Scene 1: When Soundwave ejects Frenzy from his chest and it goes on a delusional, illusion and horrific slaughter of most USA troops. The fact that both the enemy AND Frenzy suffer from the sonic wave of insanity is awesome.

Scene 2: Devastator combining and destroying the underwater tunnels of Manhattan\New York [New York? I'm mixing them up in that scene], crushing and drowning tons of people, while the seekers blow out the bridges just above that.

Scene 3: Astrotrain using the metro tracks to find refugees and transform to crush them to death.

It should be noted that what made the scenes more powerful was that each main Decepticon [Frenzy, Devastator, Astrotrain] remained\was drawn silent through it.

Scene 4, much later on, with two of the reflector trio having cornered some humans while Starscream encounters the third. Since [at least on that series] they each spoke through the other, the one Starscream finds mumbles about while looking gloomy how easily humans snap, tear and scream, terrifyingly implying what his two brothers are up to with those humans.

Now THAT'S a scene, regardless of if somebody likes AHM or not!


There was the scene where we saw the burning remains of Air Force One and the sinking of an Air Craft Carrier. Those were also powerful to me.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-31, 05:10 AM
In AHMI felt that both the first LAM and AHM that they both were equal to me entertainment wise.

However I was far more entertained more by AHM than I ever was Revenge of the Fallen and Dark of the Moon.

In AHM I felt that the Decepticons were threatening and downright terrifying, that I didn't know how the Autobots were going to win. The humans in AHM were no where near as annoying as the characters in the second and third films, and etc.

I knew that when Bay was announced as director on the first film that it was going to be a popcorn movie, and I have no problems with that. He makes great popcorn movies. I also think after 3 films Bay has at best very little or at worse nothing left to add to the franchise if he was going to be executive producer or something on the fourth film and a new director I would be excited. Because new blood brings new ideas and a fresh perspective to the franchise and it keeps it from getting stale.


Meh, I knew from the first issue Megatron would get his ass handed to him in the most humiliating way possible, and I hate Spike Witwicky. But you're free to have your own opinion.


Yeah, Shane insist that the Decepticons still "won", but the whole story seemed to be retconned into "The time Megatron went insane and threw a skinhead frat party".

Besides, AHM was supposed to be a "deep" political commentary, especially in issue 6(French are evil), 9 (the greater good is wrong), and 11(fascism is awesome).

BTW, did anyone noticed the fatal flaw in Megatron's uberkewl plan? Total Biscuit at the Allspark did:

I mean it's not just me right? Megatrons goal is to turn the Decepticons into what Furman has already been writing them as since Infiltration? Megatron did say infighting and petty ambition was something he'd considered them to have moved past, and they were using carefully planned, calm and measured phase systems to conduct subtle, secret takeovers, rather than running around like psychos? And the Cons did previously mutiny against Megs when he stopped following said planning and calmness? Where the hell is this entire 'You’re all monsters' thing coming from?

Never mind the fact that it's the new guys that are rebelling here, not the army he's saying is fundamentally flawed by his own designs? I mean the Insecticons were only just created to be the new ideal for the Decepticons, and they're the ones trying to kill him.

And how convoluted and insane is his plan here anyway? So he stops controlling the Humans with Facsimiles, stops using the Phase system, attacks a few cities, them leaves the Cons without any real direction or leadership, so they'll get pissed off at him for his lack of leadership and goals for them, so they'll attack him, which he wants so he can kill anyone who thinks he's not providing them with leadership or direction, and will be saved from death at their hands by the EU happening to attack at exactly that moment, using the same method the USAF used that the Cons can easily beat.

And:

One of the major things the IDW'verse had in it's favour was the fact that both sides were treated more like real armies, with a slow burning cold war, and the Decepticons specifically not being the bunch of lawless thugs we'd seen previously. they had a structured, measured and clinical method of intergalactic conquest, focusing on long term, slowly expanding power base built on deception and guile.

It actually made them more scary than if they just wandered around shooting stuff, they made their victims kill themselves without even realising an outside force was manipulating them, and when it was too late to do anything to stop them, only then would they step in personally. For an all but immortal species, that's a perfect way for them to fight a war.

I can think of only one Decepticon who acted like how Megatron is describing here. Megatron himself. He went nuts, gave into anger and pride, threw out all the professionalism and planning Starscreams team had spent years putting in place, and set Sixshot on the world. And all the other Cons, the ones he's here so suspicious of in case they turn on him because he says his army is so flawed, all of them agreed he'd completely lost it and needed to be stopped.

The only other character I can think of that acted like that, were Cyclonus, Arcee, and Sideswipe. None of whom were Decepticons. You could somewhat argue that the Terrorcons were like that, but really they were an isolated group of idiots who took their hero worship of Sixshot too far, and tried to get as big a rep as him.

As for Megatrons plan itself, I also note that of the Cons that turned on him, 3 were the new super troops, who were supposed to be the future of the Decepticons, worth 1000 mutilated freaks for every one created, and the Constructicons, who seem to be new to the front line, and primarily builders and technicians.

All the nutters stuck with Megatron. Astrotrain who likes killing en mass for fun, Reflector who seems to be a mentally handicapped psycho who tortures humans to death, and doesn't understand why he can't do it more than once, Skywarp who, other than the teleporting gimmick, is best know pushing people down stairs as a joke, and Soundwave, who spent millennia lying to Megatron for his own personal gain, and comes up with plans that involve forcing an Autobot to kill his friends. And Thundercracker, who has so far been Megatrons most vocal critic.

Knightdramon
2013-01-31, 11:16 AM
There was the scene where we saw the burning remains of Air Force One and the sinking of an Air Craft Carrier. Those were also powerful to me.

Yeah, the Air Craft carrier. That was a fantastic one too, especially with the dialogue. The horror freak within me immensely enjoyed it as well.

Never once did I find any deep political commentary on AHM, especially on the issues you describe. If anything, there's more political and social commentary in MTMTE 9-11 than the entire IDW run before it.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-01, 03:36 AM
Never once did I find any deep political commentary on AHM, especially on the issues you describe.


You're reading it wrong:p


JK aside, the only reason you didn't find the political commentary(much less a "deep" one) is because McCarthy is a hack N00B writer with delusions of grandeur.

Cyberstrike nTo
2013-02-07, 06:51 PM
You're reading it wrong:p


JK aside, the only reason you didn't find the political commentary(much less a "deep" one) is because McCarthy is a hack N00B writer with delusions of grandeur.

I could say the same for Autocracy, Megatron Origin, and the Furman's IDW G1 output. I really don't like Furman's -ations he had some great ideas (like the Reapers, Galvatron and Megatron being 2 seprate characters, and Sixshot) but frankly he did a piss poor of plotting and dull as dirt characters and his boring ass "deep" politcal stories with the Facilsmiles (that IMHO was better suited to G.I. Joe or better yet The X-Files) and really after Stormbringer #2 I didn't give much of a shit about any of it and dropped it some of it was I realized how much I didn't like it and some of it was I was going through a terrible financial period. I stopped reading all comics after that. I didn't bother with the Books of Furman until after the first LAM came out and guess what? I hated them. After slogging through the pure 100% crap known as Revelation and Maximum Dinobots (two of the worst comics series I have ever had the misfortune to read in my life).

It was All Hail Megatron trade paper back vol. 1 (I didn't read it as a 16 issue maxi series I read it as 4 TPBS) that brought me back not only too The Transformers but also helped get me back to comics in general. It was what I wanted at the time: a fun and entertaining story with great art. I will say that IMO Guido is the best TF artist ever. I wasn't looking for a deep politcal commentary, deep philosopical study on war and it's aftermath, the meaning of life, etc.

I never have (and still don't to a certain degree) look for that in a lot of Transformers story. Now I don't have any problems with it when it's right and IMHO Chaos Theory did it the best. I will say that in my honest opinions in 2 issues James Roberts gave more complexity and depth to Optimus Prime and Megatron than anyone else in the entire history history of franchise and in any media.

Now I liked AHM was fun and it entertained me and still does. You don't like it and you don't like Shane McCarthy fine. I get that. But for the love of God STOP thinking that all the people who did enjoy it are morons. Accept that some people just want to be entertained by the media they watch, read, or play they don't want a damn lecture on how shitty the world is.

BTW Megatron ALWAYS gets his ass handed to him badly in every single. story. :p

Knightdramon
2013-02-07, 07:40 PM
You're reading it wrong:p


JK aside, the only reason you didn't find the political commentary(much less a "deep" one) is because McCarthy is a hack N00B writer with delusions of grandeur.

Heh, maybe. At the time I was looking at more things than it was stated to offer and it's perhaps because of that, that during the first few times I read it I didn't like it as much.

Some times, the fault is not with the writer but with the reader. Nowhere, anywhere on anything was AHM solicited as a political drama of warfare. The only person so far cramming too much and claiming way too much on TF stories was Simon Furman.

In my opinion, the only guy touching what we may conceive as political issues on TF comic books is James Roberts, and he does so subtly. Chaos Theory is a PERFECT, shining example of racism, oppression, corruption and one good bot [in that case, Megatron, at least initially] trying to compete against the system. Shadowplay [more than meets the eye 9-11] is another example of a political thriller that was not even advertised as such.

AHM, Autocracy and even RID are not that sort of thing. RID is at best a 24 type show, with many twists and turns and indeed a greater story beneath it, but not a political drama at all.

The fact that in one issue, several guys sit on a table drinking tea discussing about how to nuke the US, is not a political drama. Sorry, but in that case, it was not McCarthy being a noob writer, it's yourself being a noob reader that expected it as such.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-07, 11:46 PM
Heh, maybe. At the time I was looking at more things than it was stated to offer and it's perhaps because of that, that during the first few times I read it I didn't like it as much.

Some times, the fault is not with the writer but with the reader. Nowhere, anywhere on anything was AHM solicited as a political drama of warfare. The only person so far cramming too much and claiming way too much on TF stories was Simon Furman.

In my opinion, the only guy touching what we may conceive as political issues on TF comic books is James Roberts, and he does so subtly. Chaos Theory is a PERFECT, shining example of racism, oppression, corruption and one good bot [in that case, Megatron, at least initially] trying to compete against the system. Shadowplay [more than meets the eye 9-11] is another example of a political thriller that was not even advertised as such.

AHM, Autocracy and even RID are not that sort of thing. RID is at best a 24 type show, with many twists and turns and indeed a greater story beneath it, but not a political drama at all.

The fact that in one issue, several guys sit on a table drinking tea discussing about how to nuke the US, is not a political drama. Sorry, but in that case, it was not McCarthy being a noob writer, it's yourself being a noob reader that expected it as such.

Jesus Christ no need to be condescending.

Maybe you weren't around for the pre-launch PR fluff. I'll sum it up:

-The story is a "Bold New Direction"
-It will "explore" Decepticon philosophy
-It will also "explore" the mind of Dictators(e.g. Megatron)
-It will show how People rise up against all odd

That sounds like it was intended to be "deep" to me. Bowspearer certainly thinks so.


EDIT: And BTW, if a satire of the UN wasn't "deep", I'm pretty sure Sideswipe's rant and Megatron's self fellatation are.

Knightdramon
2013-02-08, 07:45 AM
My pardons, I probably worded my post harsher than intended at any point.

Onto the rest of the stuff though, I was around for all the pre AHM stuff and advertisments, it was at around AHM 5 that I stopped buying singles [more to do with money and space than quality].

All I remember is a brand new direction, surely to do away with the convoluted mess of Furman, who's story to be close to easy to follow you had to buy the main title and 4-5 spotlights tying to it.

As for Sideswipe's speech before Prime's out of the blue moment of resurrection, it was nicely worded in my opinion. He and Sunstreaker are one of the few that get development in the series, the very last scene of issue 12 attests to that without a dialogue bubble.

AHM did have lots of bloopers, but with time and experience I wonder if that's the fault of the penciler, the writer, IDW editor or even hasbro themselves. People still can't get over how the seekers were made back into F15, for instance. There's no in story explanation that McCarthy promised, but there sure as hell are dots there to connect and blame it on Hasbro.

Cyberstrike nTo
2013-02-08, 08:55 PM
Here is what I think of AHM (http://tfarchive.com/community/showthread.php?t=48733&page=4)

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-09, 08:20 AM
My pardons, I probably worded my post harsher than intended at any point.

No probs, man! I've met worse....

All I remember is a brand new direction, surely to do away with the convoluted mess of Furman, who's story to be close to easy to follow you had to buy the main title and 4-5 spotlights tying to it.

Yeah, Furman's run turned into a mess, no disagreements.

As for Sideswipe's speech before Prime's out of the blue moment of resurrection, it was nicely worded in my opinion. He and Sunstreaker are one of the few that get development in the series, the very last scene of issue 12 attests to that without a dialogue bubble.

Sideswipe's speech would have been touching if it didn't contradict the story itself. Sunstreaker didn't betray the Autobots because he "wanted out". He betrayed them because he's turned into a genocidal monster!

Of course, it is later retconned revealed that Sunstreakers insanity is due to Bombshell's magic fiddling, but that doesn't change the fact that Sideswipe got His motivation wrong!


AHM did have lots of bloopers, but with time and experience I wonder if that's the fault of the penciler, the writer, IDW editor or even hasbro themselves. People still can't get over how the seekers were made back into F15, for instance. There's no in story explanation that McCarthy promised, but there sure as hell are dots there to connect and blame it on Hasbro.

Too be honest, I didn't recall that there was a release of Masterpiece Astrotrain, Ratbat or Hot Rod before AHM so the whole "Ebil Hasbro is shilling toys" excuse is not entirely correct:|

Knightdramon
2013-02-09, 05:26 PM
Sideswipe's speech would have been touching if it didn't contradict the story itself. Sunstreaker didn't betray the Autobots because he "wanted out". He betrayed them because he's turned into a genocidal monster!

Of course, it is later retconned revealed that Sunstreakers insanity is due to Bombshell's magic fiddling, but that doesn't change the fact that Sideswipe got His motivation wrong!

Too be honest, I didn't recall that there was a release of Masterpiece Astrotrain, Ratbat or Hot Rod before AHM so the whole "Ebil Hasbro is shilling toys" excuse is not entirely correct:|

Actually, Sunstreaker was retconned in AHM14 that he didn't want Hunter in his head and didn't cooperate for the HM procedure. Sunstreaker made a deal with Starscream that led the Autobots to THE ambush. Meanwhile, Bombshell had tracked and captured Hunter which net him the combat codes and whatnot. Megatron's "master" plan was to disable Prime and at the same time shut down every Autobot system in the galaxy, even for just a few seconds, and launch an all out assault. Without Prime or his top lieutenants, to co-ordinate the responses to the simultaneous assault, it fell on each unit commander to respond to the attacks. In AHM, only Kup\Springer managed to hold on, but the Ongoing of course retconned all that by bringing every G1 S1-2 Autobot on Earth.

Some characters did change for the AHM-era toys. Sunstreaker\Sideswipe\Prowl\Hound[later into the story] and the seekers were blatant examples of on-page toys being advertised. As for the rest, it's not certain if it was hasbro's move, guido's move or mcCarthy\IDW.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-10, 01:33 AM
Actually, Sunstreaker was retconned in AHM14 that he didn't want Hunter in his head and didn't cooperate for the HM procedure. Sunstreaker made a deal with Starscream that led the Autobots to THE ambush. Meanwhile, Bombshell had tracked and captured Hunter which net him the combat codes and whatnot. Megatron's "master" plan was to disable Prime and at the same time shut down every Autobot system in the galaxy, even for just a few seconds, and launch an all out assault. Without Prime or his top lieutenants, to co-ordinate the responses to the simultaneous assault, it fell on each unit commander to respond to the attacks. In AHM, only Kup\Springer managed to hold on, but the Ongoing of course retconned all that by bringing every G1 S1-2 Autobot on Earth.

This lengthy explanation wasn't even the point, sorry!

The point was that Sideswipe claimed that Sunstreaker betrayed them because he was tired of the war and the alledged "Autobot Hypocrisy" when his self-explained motivation in #8 shows that his goal was simple ol' genocide.

Some characters did change for the AHM-era toys. Sunstreaker\Sideswipe\Prowl\Hound[later into the story] and the seekers were blatant examples of on-page toys being advertised. As for the rest, it's not certain if it was hasbro's move, guido's move or mcCarthy\IDW.

I wager McCarthy, considering how GEEWUN All Hail Megatron is.

Cyberstrike nTo
2013-02-10, 04:35 PM
This lengthy explanation wasn't even the point, sorry!

The point was that Sideswipe claimed that Sunstreaker betrayed them because he was tired of the war and the alledged "Autobot Hypocrisy" when his self-explained motivation in #8 shows that his goal was simple ol' genocide.



I wager McCarthy, considering how GEEWUN All Hail Megatron is.

I would say Hasbro since they're the ones who have the final say.

Warcry
2013-02-10, 04:53 PM
I would say Hasbro since they're the ones who have the final say.
I think I'd lean toward agreeing with you here, because if the idea had originated with IDW I think everyone would have been G1. Guys like Prime, Hot Rod, Mirage, Trailbreaker and the Insecticons were straight-on G1, sure, but Kup, Blurr, Cliffjumper, Perceptor, etc. were all redesigned completely and a few others (Jazz, Bumblebee, Ironhide) were just using their Infiltration-era IDW designs. And then of course you had the then-current toy designs: Universe Sideswipe, Sunstreaker, Octane, Dropshot and Prowl, Masterpiece Seekers, etc. It was a very scattershot approach.

My guess is that Hasbro asked for some of the new toy designs to be used, and that somehow turned into an excuse for Guido to just draw the rest of the cast however he liked whether it made sense or not. It doesn't bother me too much though, because whether the designs were toy-based, came from the 80s or were IDW originals he managed to make them all look like they belonged together.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-10, 08:16 PM
My guess is that Hasbro asked for some of the new toy designs to be used, and that somehow turned into an excuse for Guido to just draw the rest of the cast however he liked whether it made sense or not. It doesn't bother me too much though, because whether the designs were toy-based, came from the 80s or were IDW originals he managed to make them all look like they belonged together.

I dunno, Guido said on his deviantart that Astrotrain became a steam train for "story reasons", but it was never revealed.

But Hasbro Mandate *is* theoretically possible.