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View Full Version : Should Generations include non-G1 characters?


Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-27, 09:05 AM
I know lots of people get happy-moist over , But I find that a little, well, [I]boring.


I mean we have Hot Shot, Dinobot and Cheetor in 2008 (though they're crap). And BTW, who doesn't want a new-and-improved Armada Demolishor? Or Animated Spittor? I know I do!


Either that, or some late-G1 as a compromise. I want Hardhead dammit.

Denyer
2013-01-27, 11:58 AM
There'll probably be more demand as generations who grew up with those series get older... but by the same token, a lot of series have rehashed Prime/Starscream/Megatron/Bumblebee/etc.

Not much appeal, personally, although I'd like to see some less obvious remakes, such as more updates of Pretenders.

Tetsuro
2013-01-27, 01:48 PM
Not much appeal, personally, although I'd like to see some less obvious remakes, such as more updates of Pretenders.
I'm gonna have to go with this. I'd also like to see some modern takes on the later gimmicky characters like the Headmasters or Powermasters. Anyone up for a Generations Chromedome?

Denyer
2013-01-27, 02:32 PM
Yeah, and could go for a Brainstorm. I like the meld of character (even if it was only vestigial in the original media) and decent homage-y modern design, so entries like Straxus and Sky Shadow have been welcome.

Thunderwave
2013-01-27, 03:34 PM
I, personally, would like to see more figures from other series eventually. The one thing I'd like to see, however, is a general adherence to the same ascetic they already have. While I know not all the old figures have the same look, most however have a general ascetic going. HftD Lugnut is an example of a good conversion to that same ascetic.

I'd like to see more of the later G1 guys get toys, though, first. Figures like Hardhead, Chromedome, Octopunch, and the like (although Hardhead -might- be getting a new figure if Warpath's directions are to be believed). And there are a few older figures I'd like to see get a revamp, like Prowl and Galvatron.

Clay
2013-01-28, 12:44 AM
Either that, or some late-G1 as a compromise. I want Hardhead dammit.

There's always this lovely, expensive thing. (http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TOW10002&mode=retail)

On topic, I always thought the point of calling it Generations was to include other series' characters, though as Denyer said that's mostly contingent on fans of the later series to get old enough to retroactively want a piece of the market pie.

Beast Wars, scarily enough, is creeping toward its 20th anniversary. Would expect representation of that in 2016.

Notabot
2013-01-28, 07:05 PM
There's always this lovely, expensive thing. (http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TOW10002&mode=retail)
Must... restrain... inner 12 year old... from... giggling!

Beast Wars, scarily enough, is creeping toward its 20th anniversary. Would expect representation of that in 2016.

In my world, I was unaware of Beast Wars during its original run, so it's nowhere near 20 years old. That's scary.

Paul053
2013-01-28, 08:06 PM
Just put them in. I have my choices.

Denyer
2013-01-28, 08:51 PM
There's always this lovely, expensive thing. (http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=TOW10002&mode=retail)

Now that's rather nice. I look forward to the time when 3D printers are good and everywhere and it's a case of buying designs rather than shipping things around and paying a not inconsiderable premium for limited run customs.

ganon578
2013-01-28, 09:53 PM
I think it would be great to have some redesigns of non-G1 things in the Generations line. I mean, it is named Generations. Not just Generation. I missed everything after G1 until the 2007 movie, so for me it would be cool to see updates of popular characters from the other series, fan-faves, etc. from RID, Armada, Energon, Cybertron...

My fear is that HasTak would just make Optimus/Megs/Bumblebee from each of the other lines, so it would take years before getting some 'new' characters. Business-wise they would put out what they think would sell. That's why DOTM had hundreds of BBs sitting on shelves. But hey, I've been wrong many, many times before.

Skyquake87
2013-01-28, 10:53 PM
er, 'Hardbone' ? :eyebrow:

I voted for more diveristy. Most of all, I want Generations to be good. The recent FoC toys have all been terrible. I can't believe people are falling over themselves for these poorly built disasters.

I am surprised that the proliferation of all this third party stuff hasn't encouraged hastak to step up their efforts, instead they seem to be hurtling in the opposite direction...which is odd for a line that's going to have more interest from aging fans than kids.

Having voted yes I have juist realised that from BW up, there's not really a need to 'reimagine', as the design and engineering is still good by todays standards.

Warcry
2013-01-29, 07:11 PM
Having voted yes I have juist realised that from BW up, there's not really a need to 'reimagine', as the design and engineering is still good by todays standards.
I'd disagree with that, actually. There are two different scenarios re-imagining more recent designs could work.

First is when the original design comes from a series that's so heavily stylized that the original -- good or not -- won't fit with anything beyond their original series. We've seen this happen a few times already, with popular Animated characters getting adapted into the Generations or Movie style (or in the case of Blackout, a Movie design getting revamped for Animated). Recent series have introduced a lot of memorable new characters and I'd be interested to see what a Generations Barricade or Bulkhead or Sentinel Prime would look like viewed through a G1 lens.

There's also the case where the original toys just weren't very good. This mostly applies to the Unicron Trilogy, where heavy reliance on gimmicks meant that good designs became bad toys.

In either situation I would be happy to see Generations toys of these characters. That comes with the caveat that the new stuff would actually have to be better than the original, something that the revisited Beast Wars toys in the Universe line didn't even come close to. And considering the quality (or lack thereof) in the Fall of Cybertron-themed toys I don't think I'll be holding my breath.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-29, 08:50 PM
I voted for more diveristy. Most of all, I want Generations to be good. The recent FoC toys have all been terrible. I can't believe people are falling over themselves for these poorly built disasters.


THIS, so much! I can't belive people call that overweight cosplayer a "good" representation of G1 Optimus:wall: But Kickback seems like some effort was put into his engineering....

I'd disagree with that, actually. There are two different scenarios re-imagining more recent designs could work.

First is when the original design comes from a series that's so heavily stylized that the original -- good or not -- won't fit with anything beyond their original series. We've seen this happen a few times already, with popular Animated characters getting adapted into the Generations or Movie style (or in the case of Blackout, a Movie design getting revamped for Animated). Recent series have introduced a lot of memorable new characters and I'd be interested to see what a Generations Barricade or Bulkhead or Sentinel Prime would look like viewed through a G1 lens.

There's also the case where the original toys just weren't very good. This mostly applies to the Unicron Trilogy, where heavy reliance on gimmicks meant that good designs became bad toys.

All of this, too!:D

Skyquake87
2013-01-29, 11:51 PM
I'd disagree with that, actually. There are two different scenarios re-imagining more recent designs could work.

First is when the original design comes from a series that's so heavily stylized that the original -- good or not -- won't fit with anything beyond their original series. We've seen this happen a few times already, with popular Animated characters getting adapted into the Generations or Movie style (or in the case of Blackout, a Movie design getting revamped for Animated). Recent series have introduced a lot of memorable new characters and I'd be interested to see what a Generations Barricade or Bulkhead or Sentinel Prime would look like viewed through a G1 lens.

There's also the case where the original toys just weren't very good. This mostly applies to the Unicron Trilogy, where heavy reliance on gimmicks meant that good designs became bad toys.

In either situation I would be happy to see Generations toys of these characters. That comes with the caveat that the new stuff would actually have to be better than the original, something that the revisited Beast Wars toys in the Universe line didn't even come close to. And considering the quality (or lack thereof) in the Fall of Cybertron-themed toys I don't think I'll be holding my breath.

See, I like the UT Trilogy for what they are - big , colourful bricks that are FUN. To start making them hyper detailed, ROTF Bludgeon style dudes and i think they'd lose some of their personality in the process(I am saying this as someone whom hoovered up a load of Armada stuff last year, having got over himself and remembering that sometimes, toys just need to be brash fun. with silly gimmicks), or worse end up like that Universe Hotshot toy : a pointless update (some impoved engineering aside, he's so identical to his original counterpart, you wonder why anyone bothered). I do agree that with a bit of thought, the odd gem does sneak out - althought RTS Lugnut's rather cartoonish alt mode rather ruins the effect that was intended, to say nothing of similarly cartoony head and QC issues.

I think if they are going to update characters for Generations, then it should be late G1 characters - most of them had such embarrassingly awful toys that even cheaply made rubbish like the FoC toys would be a massive impovement for the majority of them, yes Birdbrain, I'm looking at you, you weird stumpy freak.

I think if Hasbro are to tackle the beast era again, they need to be thinking more Transmetal than anything else.

Warcry
2013-01-30, 05:38 AM
See, I like the UT Trilogy for what they are - big , colourful bricks that are FUN.
I won't argue that, though my opinion of the UT isn't very high. I do think there's room for multiple interpretations of the same character, though. Movie and Prime take the same basic Bumblebee design and run in totally different directions with it, for example. Lugnut got the same treatment, and Bulkhead did too moving from Animated to Prime. Something like that can be a breath of fresh air when it's done right, and I'd definitely enjoy seeing what a Generations-style interpretation of some more UT characters would look like.

I do agree that a lot of late-G1 characters could use the same treatment, though.

tahukanuva
2013-01-30, 07:47 AM
Of the UT dudes, I think Armada Starscream, Demolisher, and Cyclonus would all translate to Classics style pretty well. All three have solid designs that could really shine with some current engineering.

Edit: Ooh, and movie dudes! A Classics style Barricade and Blackout would be swell. Or Classics-up'd movie Ironhide and Ratchet, since those designs are better than the G1's by some stretch.

Jaynz
2013-01-30, 08:06 PM
I mean we have Hot Shot, Dinobot and Cheetor in 2008 (though they're crap). And BTW, who doesn't want a new-and-improved Armada Demolishor? Or Animated Spittor? I know I do!

While I do think that Generations should encompass... well.. everything.. keep in mind that a lot of the years since the tail half of G2 already have toys that can largely stand up in today's market. A lot of toys from 1990 onwards don't need 'redone' so much as they just need re-released.

The classic BW Cheetor, for instance, still makes for a decent Deluxe. No one would complain about G2 Dreadwing coming out again. RID Sideburn is still a pretty good toy. Other than a minor articulation problem, Armada Demolishor isn't really out of line with most of Generations. This is, of course, ignoring the fact that a lot of the Unicron Trilogy toys have already been used as Generation toys!

Other than some standouts (like, say, BW Blackarachnia) most characters post 1990 really aren't hurting for a lot of new toys - which leaves only the G1 guys, for the most part, in need of updates. And even then, it's not like Hasbro has been Diaclone-era purists, either.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-01-31, 05:23 AM
While I do think that Generations should encompass... well.. everything.. keep in mind that a lot of the years since the tail half of G2 already have toys that can largely stand up in today's market. A lot of toys from 1990 onwards don't need 'redone' so much as they just need re-released.

Mostly agreed, though I think that the likes Clench, Pyro, Boss, Rotorstorm, Skyquake, Stalker and G2 Megatron could all do with uberarticulated new moulds. I mean, we have a remake of Laser Prime didn't we?;)

Megatron might need another altmode though, most modern MBTs are a bit flat.

The classic BW Cheetor, for instance, still makes for a decent Deluxe. No one would complain about G2 Dreadwing coming out again. RID Sideburn is still a pretty good toy. Other than a minor articulation problem, Armada Demolishor isn't really out of line with most of Generations. This is, of course, ignoring the fact that a lot of the Unicron Trilogy toys have already been used as Generation toys!

I would prefer a Sideburn that is less of a shellformer, though.

The BW toys are decent, but they have a few stinkers that need modern engineering, Rhinox immediately comes to mind.

Other than some standouts (like, say, BW Blackarachnia) most characters post 1990 really aren't hurting for a lot of new toys - which leaves only the G1 guys, for the most part, in need of updates. And even then, it's not like Hasbro has been Diaclone-era purists, either.

refer above, mostly.

Jaynz
2013-01-31, 03:01 PM
To me, though, character sets like the Predators and Turbomasters should be the province of BotCon. (And definately so rather than bizzarely themed random crap they insist on doing.) Yes that would limit them to redecos and remolds, but I don't see UK/Europe exclusive characters doing all that well otherwise.

Of course, I also thought that BotCon would have been a great chance to make Energon Liokaiser, but I guess I'm weird that way...

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-01, 03:38 AM
To me, though, character sets like the Predators and Turbomasters should be the province of BotCon. (And definately so rather than bizzarely themed random crap they insist on doing.) Yes that would limit them to redecos and remolds, but I don't see UK/Europe exclusive characters doing all that well otherwise.


Pfft, Some of us live half-way 'round the world and the rest won't risk getting gunned in the US of A for some BotCOn exclusives(which is mostly crap anyways).

Jaynz
2013-02-01, 04:31 AM
Pfft, Some of us live half-way 'round the world and the rest won't risk getting gunned in the US of A for some BotCOn exclusives(which is mostly crap anyways).

Not to start a flame war or anything, but you DO realize that the US has one of the LOWEST violent crime rates in the first-world? The media is really good at super-senationalism...

But, heck, I would have figured you would have done shipping. :P But if Hasbro isn't looking to expand too deeply into the Japanese mythos, it's hard to imagine that they'll do a wide release of Euro-exclusive characters either. :S

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-01, 06:32 AM
Not to start a flame war or anything, but you DO realize that the US has one of the LOWEST violent crime rates in the first-world? The media is really good at super-senationalism...

But, heck, I would have figured you would have done shipping. :P But if Hasbro isn't looking to expand too deeply into the Japanese mythos, it's hard to imagine that they'll do a wide release of Euro-exclusive characters either. :S


While I believe you, the fact remains that every Tom, Dick and Harry is allowed to drop by the corner store and pack themselves some heat, and that makes me uncomfortable:(

I can't do shipping either, import taxes run high where I live:down:

Besides, G2 Laser Prime isn't an euro exclusive, and they remade that one. I'd like to see Megs get the same treatment.

Thunderwave
2013-02-01, 11:33 AM
I just want to see the Pretenders and Head/Power/Targetmasters get new figures. I mean, besides that really odd, and unpink, homage to Skullgrin (that honestly had 0 to do with the original).

Or maybe some other combiner teams could get some exposure. Why not do a go at more of the Protectobots? Or the Technobots? Or the Predacons? Or...you get my point.


While I believe you, the fact remains that every Tom, Dick and Harry is allowed to drop by the corner store and pack themselves some heat, and that makes me uncomfortable:(


It's not everyone. There are groups not allowed to buy firearms. Although you're more likely to get beat by a baseball bat then anything else (the humble bat is the #1, by far, leading murder and violent crime implement in America). Also, to poke a logical hole in that, the kind of people likely to shoot you are the kind who ignore laws anyways. :-p

Come over for Botcon. I promise none of the thugs will want to shoot and mug the "nerd" for some toys. No matter how awesome he is, none of them are worth a murder rap.

numbat
2013-02-01, 12:08 PM
I'd like to see more reimaginings of characters from other lines, in the Classics/G1 aesthetic.

I really love RTS Lugnut - a few more like him would be awesome!

I have a lot of love for the G1.5 European exclusives, but understand their market would be very small perhaps. However, maybe we'll see Skyquake now that he's had an appearance in Prime?

Certainly would like to see later G1 characters like the Headmasters or Powermasters in there too.

And I dream of a good Omega Supreme figure and Menasor combiner update...

I'd like to see some of the Cybertron 'trilogy' figures reimagined. I disagree about their engineering - they do really look dated in a lot of cases, and an update could be cool. Tidal Wave, Demolisher, Overload, Cybertron Menasor... Could be cool.

Incidentally, I don't think the risk of Bumblebees from other lines is as great as suggested earlier - very few lines have included Bumblebee at all. It's only since the movies that he's made his return from G1 really!

Cliffjumper
2013-02-01, 02:38 PM
Come over for Botcon. I promise none of the thugs will want to shoot and mug the "nerd" for some toys. No matter how awesome he is, none of them are worth a murder rap.

I would shoot someone in the face for one of those police car Sunstreaker Diaclones, mind.

Jaynz
2013-02-01, 02:42 PM
While I believe you, the fact remains that every Tom, Dick and Harry is allowed to drop by the corner store and pack themselves some heat, and that makes me uncomfortable:(

Nah, not even remotely true. Again, our media loves to hyper-sensantionalize. And statists (which form the bulk of our media) HATE the idea of private citizens having firearms. While our laws do vary greatly from state to state, licenses, background checks, etc., are all required for legal gun sales.

I can't do shipping either, import taxes run high where I live:down:

Shipping's high everywhere. One reason I'm letting my collection go - it's just too damn expensive to maintain and build one up these days.

Besides, G2 Laser Prime isn't an euro exclusive, and they remade that one. I'd like to see Megs get the same treatment.

I was referring more to the Predators and Turbomasters. G2 Tank Megatron would be a wonderful one to redo, and wouldn't be out of the question eventually.

Denyer
2013-02-01, 07:36 PM
While I believe you, the fact remains that every Tom, Dick and Harry is allowed to drop by the corner store and pack themselves some heat, and that makes me uncomfortable:(
I disagree with Vanguard on a lot of things, but there are some rules, and likely to be more as a result of the "school shooting of the week" type stuff that's been going on and heavily reported this year. I'd be more put off by terrorists, thieves and sex offenders working in airport security theatre... although it's not as if the US is alone there.

Seriously, it's possible to be too risk-averse.

Jaynz
2013-02-01, 10:03 PM
I disagree with Vanguard on a lot of things, but there are some rules, and likely to be more as a result of the "school shooting of the week" type stuff that's been going on and heavily reported this year. I'd be more put off by terrorists, thieves and sex offenders working in airport security theatre... although it's not as if the US is alone there.

If you're domestic-flying it's pretty easy to avoid the worst of the TSA offenders. Avoid Denver, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Washington, and you won't get much hassle (if any at all) from the TSA. Miami is a little hit-and-miss, depending on from where you're flying into it. Basically avoid the big international hubs and you'll generally be left alone.

And... we've gone enough off-topic on this, I think.

Certainly would like to see later G1 characters like the Headmasters or Powermasters in there too.

We've got no real shortage of post-movie characters being brought in. They're just usually sprinkled around without their teams and without their character context. We got homages to Headmasters, Powermasters, Micromasters, Pretenders, and Action Masters in the main line now... but no "Here's a wave of Quake, Needlenose, and Spinister with two Arms Micron figures each!"...

And I dream of a good Omega Supreme figure and Menasor combiner update...

Menasor and Defensor really seem neglected by Hasbro, don't they? They haven't even gotten the KreO treatment yet, though I'm hopeful. Alas, I suspect we won't see too many more combiners in a main line for awhile. Hasbro really hates them due to how you have to sell them these days (pretty much the whole kaboodle in one or two waves... thank you Wal*Mart and Target. [evil] ).

Thunderwave
2013-02-02, 03:22 AM
Menasor and Defensor really seem neglected by Hasbro, don't they? They haven't even gotten the KreO treatment yet, though I'm hopeful. Alas, I suspect we won't see too many more combiners in a main line for awhile. Hasbro really hates them due to how you have to sell them these days (pretty much the whole kaboodle in one or two waves... thank you Wal*Mart and Target. [evil] ).

To be fair Defensor is a blue firetruck (which we just got), a red heli (which we got), an imitation Ratchet (First Aid), an imitation Prowl (Streetwise), and Groove (who is unlike 90% of TF motorcycles). Not a great chance we'll see many outside of Blades and Hot Spot.

Menasor is another story. We've gotten, or are getting, Breakdown and Drag Strip in Deluxe size, with Wildrider in Scout size, and Motormaster in Legends. We're missing one member with no new toys at all.

numbat
2013-02-02, 12:25 PM
Menasor is another story. We've gotten, or are getting, Breakdown and Drag Strip in Deluxe size, with Wildrider in Scout size, and Motormaster in Legends. We're missing one member with no new toys at all.
Yeah, but the scales are all off, and rely on repaints that don't necessarily suit the character very well.

And, of course, they don't combine!

:swirly:

(I just love Menasor...)

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-07, 05:39 AM
I'm back!:)
It's not everyone. There are groups not allowed to buy firearms. Although you're more likely to get beat by a baseball bat then anything else (the humble bat is the #1, by far, leading murder and violent crime implement in America). Also, to poke a logical hole in that, the kind of people likely to shoot you are the kind who ignore laws anyways. :-p

Come over for Botcon. I promise none of the thugs will want to shoot and mug the "nerd" for some toys. No matter how awesome he is, none of them are worth a murder rap.

Whilst I appreciate your assurance and invitation, the fact remains that I don't have the money to travel halfway 'round the world:(

EDIT: You too, Vanguard!