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Skyquake87
2013-02-17, 09:14 AM
News from around the interwebz courtesy of magazine Kidscreen:

"As for Hasbro's established stable of series, which drive the programming on its US joint venture network The Hub, the 13 episodes of Transformers Prime Beast Hunters due to launch this year represent the final chapter of the Transformers Prime story. It has grown to encompass 65 half-hour episodes that continue to roll out around the world. Look for a 75-minute Transformers Prime Beast Hunters movie to hit DVD shelves in Q4.

But that's not the end for Transformers. [Hasbro's SVP of International Distribution and Development Finn] Arnesen says a "new iteration of the animated TV series" is slated for delivery in late 2014, which looks like it might be shaping up to be the year of Autobots, given that audiences are already expecting the fourth live-action blockbuster in July."

I'm quite surprised to hear that Prime has been given the chop. It's reached enough episodes for syndication, so I suppose it's done enough. Strange to see that this decision has been made before Season Three has even aired, which makes one wonder if the ratings and demographics for Season Two weren't quite as healthy. In the contexts of the incredibly short shelf life kids toys and fads generally have, it probably should have been expected.

Also looking around the interwebz, I'm amazed at the number of folk putting the boot in and now decrying Prime as 'rubbish' and that 'they didn't like it anyway'.

Stupid grown up fans.

Knightdramon
2013-02-17, 10:00 AM
Yeah, not really surprising, considering that hasbro's sales during Prime were lower than their sales between Animated\DOTM aka when there was NO MEDIA :lol:

At this point I'm terribly disappointed with Hasbro's eagerness to press the reset button close to each movie, even after they said stuff like "Prime is definitely here to last, we're using stuff from the TF Bible, everything connects to it, blah blah blah".

The thing is, I've been watching Animated these days, and comparing episode numbering, pretty much nil has been happening with Prime when decked shoulder to shoulder. For all the sophisticated high definition extra detailed stuff and effects and serious, dark tone, Prime is pretty much a flashy dumb kids cartoon at this point.

PS: Oh, Skyquake, got your pm but for some reason the reply button is so off center in my screen I can't reply to you! Cheers for letting me know mate!

numbat
2013-02-17, 10:44 AM
Given I've not had the opportunity to watch Prime, I don't have an opinion on the TV series.

However, I think Prime produced the best mainstream Transformers toy line ever - I love the balance between stylised design, detail and transformation. So I'll be sorry to see that go - but then, Beast Hunters looks a lot more hit-and-miss than the previous waves anyway.

Hopefully the same level of design ethic will carry on in future TV show based lines, but I'd be surprised...

All that said, I am not at all surprised the decision has been taken to reboot the cartoon side of Transformers and the mainstream kids toyline at this point. It's been Hasbro's style with each Movie, and it's the 30th anniversary next year: it's highly likely that they're looking to use this to grab attention, and having a fresh jumping-on-point for new fans makes sense.

Cliffjumper
2013-02-17, 02:22 PM
This seems to be the "yeh, we've got enough of this product and we're planning another new product" type of cancellation, then.

Can't be arsed to poke around but I already thought it was common knowledge that Beast Hunters was ending the thing?

TBH I can see why Hasbro want to reboot every few years. Their key demographic is, what, 7-11 or whatever. They don't want kids to grow up with the franchise particularly, they want it to perenially appeal to that demographic (moreso than before as they've got fan-orientated lines and merchandise to cover older people; the films probably pay for themselves in tickets alone, it wouldn't surprise me if we only get half-a-dozen figs for TF4).

Red Dave Prime
2013-02-17, 05:43 PM
Also looking around the interwebz, I'm amazed at the number of folk putting the boot in and now decrying Prime as 'rubbish' and that 'they didn't like it anyway'.

Stupid grown up fans.

Hey, I tried to like this thing. But it had far too much of a kiddy vibe than I could tolerate. Nothing wrong with that as it is a kids show, but I am surprised so many adult fans rated it highly.

Knightdramon
2013-02-17, 07:03 PM
I too tried to like this. It actually made some pretty neat and new moves, TV TF-Fiction wise...but failed miserably on all of them. I highly doubt the third season will be much different. Either the toys were pushed forward very fast or the show pushed back, but going by toys, there's NO new autobots in the show besides maybe Magnus and all the predacons appear [though I may be wrong] to be toy-only characters.

Fascinating how a show that started with perhaps the best opener of all TF TV shows was kept so limited and empty throughout two seasons.

Skyquake87
2013-02-17, 08:52 PM
I was just commentating generally about fan reaction. Its just ridiculous, the amount folk around the boards going 'pfft, it were always bobbins'. I think for a lot of people, it wasn't Animated, and that was good enough. People do like their sci-fi so serious these days after all.

I think we've all been fairly critical of the show to a greater or lesser extent. For me, its the 'confuscious say' nonsense Optimus had in lieu of an actual personality and some of the poor storytelling choices. The end of Season 2 still winds me up - why not use the magical phase shifter do-dah to rescue the kids, and have Wheeljack (Remember him? Series Writers?! He has a F**king SPACE SHIP at his disposal with LOTS of guns!). I don't like deus ex machina cosmic macguffins and quests for them anyway, but if you're going to introduce them and have them as a driving part of the plot then at least utilise them properly in a military campaign. Sigh.

Oh, and the business in Season One where Miko nearly gets Bulkhead killed and gets the Autobots in a right mess, loosing them some doohicky or other (maps, was it - some cannister with something important, anyway) and is not admonished for her idiotic behaviour, ensuring she learns nothing and earns the right to carry on acting like a selfish prick.

Thats what I didn't like.

I did like Breakdown and Arcee, the generally good work done in getting Starscream away from that screeching, snivelling geewun persona (although that was all done), the outstanding 'Predatory' episode and Jack (the other human kids can all do one though) and his mum.

inflatable dalek
2013-02-18, 08:23 AM
Considering the amount of time and effort put into the whole Aligned thing I'd be amazed if whatever comes next isn't a continuation, even if it's a relatively standalone one.

Notabot
2013-02-18, 05:14 PM
Three seasons seems to be pretty standard for TF cartoons, doesn't it? And I totally agree that that's not a bad idea for marketing to younger children. I just started watching Season 2, so I can't really judge the whole series yet, but I'm really not impressed with the Beast Hunter toys I've seen. Maybe they'll grow on me, but now that Toys R Us is charging $17 for deluxes, I really doubt it.

Jaynz
2013-02-18, 08:49 PM
I wouldn't mind a new series, but I don't want a reboot again. Makes it hard to care about anything when you know "In less than three years, none of this will matter at all". Give us a sequel series instead, same continuity, with a new mix of characters and just move things forward.

praetorian
2013-02-18, 08:52 PM
the films probably pay for themselves in tickets alone, it wouldn't surprise me if we only get half-a-dozen figs for TF4).

With Bumblebee, Rocket-booster Bumblebee, Battle-mask Bumblebee, Sword-thrusting Bumblebee, Break-dancing Bumblebee, and Beatbox Bumblebee, there's your half-a-dozen already for TF4.

Tetsuro
2013-02-19, 02:11 AM
Apparently when a cartoon series hits the 65 episode mark, they have to give the voice actors a raise.

That's why they'd sooner axe it. They got their 65 25-minute toy commercials, they don't want to pay any more than they have to.

Skyquake87
2013-02-19, 09:34 AM
i think the thought of another reboot after the films have done the same is going to have to work hard to keep me interested, at least. i'm finding it quite tiresome to have the same scenario - transformers crashed/ are secretly on earth, autobots fight decepticons, same key characters involved, some fighting and annoying kid character involved blah blah blah.

its quite a dry formula to follow over and over which doesn't really lend itself to continued interest. probably how it should be, as discussed elsewhere.

Jaynz
2013-02-19, 08:08 PM
Considering the amount of time and effort put into the whole Aligned thing I'd be amazed if whatever comes next isn't a continuation, even if it's a relatively standalone one.

The only people who put all that 'time and effort' into the Aligned thing are Walky and his pals on the tfwiki.net. I never got the impression from anywhere else that Hasbro took that whole schtick seriously.

Cliffjumper
2013-02-19, 11:58 PM
Doesn't most of the supposed Aligned stuff already contain various contradictions anyway? It sounds more like the G1 'bible' which writers regularly ignored for dramatic purposes or, in the case of Donald Fartknocker Glut, because it was right over the other side of the desk and he knew everything about dinosaurs anyway.

Show me a writer who's bound by a corporate-devised 'bible' and I'll show you someone who isn't a writer.

Knightdramon
2013-02-20, 09:28 AM
Nah, the bible is a stupid excuse to meld elements from all continuities together and don't think of anything new.

13? Done since ROTF...jesus ROTF, the 2 hour film with the 7 page screen
Megatron a gladiator? Done since 1984
Prime a librarian\clerk? See above
Bumblebee being mute when he got injured from Megatron? TFTM

It's clear that at the time of WFC, the game was designed as a standalone, updated G1 universe, yet Hasbro wanted to shove it into the "Aligned" continuity because that was hip at the time. And thus we get to have those horrible Rage of Dinobots comics that try to tie Dinobots into Prime S3. Only for them to do something like 'oh, Predaking, the ancient warrior? Yeah one of his armour plates is lifted from Grimlock'.

Warcry
2013-02-20, 04:48 PM
The only people who put all that 'time and effort' into the Aligned thing are Walky and his pals on the tfwiki.net. I never got the impression from anywhere else that Hasbro took that whole schtick seriously.
Yeah, I got that impression too. Hasbro's take on the whole Aligned Continuity thing seems to basically boil down to "Everything is one canon now, even the stuff that contradicts itself. Don't think too hard about it, just enjoy the ride". Which does tend to lead to stuff like...

It's clear that at the time of WFC, the game was designed as a standalone, updated G1 universe, yet Hasbro wanted to shove it into the "Aligned" continuity because that was hip at the time.
...this, where a blatantly G1 game with only the vaguest of ties to the Prime universe is totally in continuity with the TV show according to Hasbro even though it really doesn't make too much sense.

But no one really seems to take that too seriously other than the Wiki crowd, who jump through hoops to make sense of something that really isn't supposed to make sense in the first place. They put more effort into making things fit than the creators ever did, and they have to ignore or handwave a lot of inconsistencies to piece things together (much like with the whole "multiversal singularity" nonsense re: Unicron, Primus and the Thirteen).

With that in mind, I expect that whatever cartoon follows Prime will be billed as a loose sequel rather than a direct reboot. I doubt there'll be much in the way of continuity between the two though, either in terms of designs, character cast or storyline.

MeGrimlock
2013-02-21, 12:08 PM
Hmm, what if Hasbro comes up with a Prime reboot in Beast Machines stile? :D

Bluecatcinema
2013-02-21, 07:11 PM
I'm not that surprised. Beast Hunters always looked to me like it would be the closing chapter of the series.

Red Dave Prime
2013-02-27, 11:50 PM
Slightly off topic but when a new transformers series starts up, what are the "must-have" aspects it should have? Obviously we have to have robots who change shape but what else do you feel is essential?

The reason I ask is Knightdramons list of things that are now tropes within the transformer universe. Megatron must be the bad guy, Grimlock must be a T-rex, we have to have a matrix etc. Would fans be happy with wholesale changes to the detriment of attracting new fans or have fans gotten to the point of "feck, same old story again???"

I would love to see an entirely new take on the universe.

MeGrimlock
2013-02-28, 08:03 AM
I'd like to see robots "in disguise" whose disguise is really a disguise, and mostly it is used as a main plot device, not just like something cool that has to be there even though the writers don't care about it.
Maybe a "new" take on the concept as well, just like it happened in Beast Wars.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-28, 01:00 PM
I'd like to see robots "in disguise" whose disguise is really a disguise and used as a main plot device, and not just like something cool that must be used even though the writers don't care about it.
Maybe a "new" take on the concept as well, just like it happened in Beast Wars.


Furman tried that, but apparently it doesn't have enough BUCKETS OF BLOOD for the true fans, so IDW replaced him with McCarthy, who turned the Decepticons into an army of giant metal Commoduses, leading to much rejoicing:clap:

Red Dave Prime
2013-02-28, 01:08 PM
And there is the problem. The brand needs to move on at this point surely and try a few new ideas.

Skyquake87
2013-02-28, 02:52 PM
There was great potential in the concept of holomatter avatars, but the problem with them is the direction wouldn't then focus on big fighty robots, which is what most people expect from Transformers. Unless you got the balance right.

Transformers defiantely needs freshening up, though. There was soemthing invigorating about Beast Wars that we've not really got from a lot of the successive reboots from RiD onwards.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-28, 11:33 PM
And there is the problem. The brand needs to move on at this point surely and try a few new ideas.


It's not Hasbro's fault if the TRUE FANS hate seeing transformers sneaking around in ugly Earth disguises. They are a corporate company, they need money, and only pandering to the bases can they get it.

Red Dave Prime
2013-02-28, 11:37 PM
It's not Hasbro's fault if the TRUE FANS hate seeing transformers sneaking around in ugly Earth disguises. They are a corporate company, they need money, and only pandering to the bases can they get it.

I agree with that. Imagine a TF universe with no Primes, or no factions. I'm not saying that should be the way things go but I reckon any major change would be met with resistance from the hardcore base.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-28, 11:54 PM
I agree with that. Imagine a TF universe with no Primes, or no factions. I'm not saying that should be the way things go but I reckon any major change would be met with resistance from the hardcore base.

Exactly. If something as superficial as munkies and bayformers can have the fans soiling themselves in rage, an overhaul of the way Autobots and Decepticons wage their war will only result in ugliness:glance:

Skyquake87
2013-03-01, 09:45 AM
Fans aren't the target audience though, so it doesn't matter what we think...

I quite liked having a break from Autobots and Decepticons, with Maximals, Predacons and Vehicons.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-01, 12:03 PM
Fans aren't the target audience though, so it doesn't matter what we think...


I was more refering to the farce that is IDW's "business practice":p

Jaynz
2013-03-01, 02:27 PM
Fans aren't the target audience though, so it doesn't matter what we think...

For IDW, the 'core fan' is indeed the target audience. They don't have the numbers for it to be anyone else...

I quite liked having a break from Autobots and Decepticons, with Maximals, Predacons and Vehicons.

But it's nearly the exact same formula with different alternative modes. Personally I would rather the writers get into the world a bit more, and start showing some depth to the conflict - with different mixes of characters, etc. Changing the 'gimimck' has already been done nearly a dozen times in the same number of years (hell, Skyquake, we're getting a new faction NOW, right?) - clearly that's not helping.

Skyquake87
2013-03-01, 10:34 PM
Yeah, I just liked the break from the established G1 stuff we got with Beast Wars. Okay, it all ended up tied into to everything else but it really was a refreshing change and to an extent did explore the ramifications of the end of the war and how thigns ended up. Beast Machines also tried something different, trying to show that the Transformers had evolved from organic forms to their current states.

I'd agree that there is a lot of unmined potential in really getting under the skin of things, but would that be a bit much for a potential new extension of the franchise? The comics are currently delving into all that stuff which is enriching the stories and it would be great to see that sort of thing fleshed out a bit more in cartoons, but would that be of interest to kids?

I think unless we have another Generation 2, we're unlike to get a more imaginative take on things. Transformers being what they are, its difficult to present the concept of transforming warring robots without some repetition, but I've certainly had enough of the 'meet kids - 'cons appear - have fight- win - go home' that we've had over and over.

The Wild One
2013-03-07, 04:06 AM
Hasbro has always been wishy washy about their continuity. I remember one interview about War For Cybertron being a G1 prequel, yet High Moon Studios saying it was a stand alone. Now it did have a massive influence from the G1 cartoon continuity. Fall of Cybertron made it definitely seem like with was a G1 cartoon prequel. The writing by HMS definitely made it seem that way. Hasbro then says both of the games were Prime prequels from the get go. This is really stupid, as War For Cybertron was being developed before Prime was much of a thought.

Now with being said, the early Prime episode I was able to watch were decent. The further it went, the less interesting it became. Beast Hunters really seems to be really the end of the rope either way. The series just makes it seem like a "less futuristic" version of Cybertron.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-08, 05:48 AM
But it's nearly the exact same formula with different alternative modes. Personally I would rather the writers get into the world a bit more, and start showing some depth to the conflict - with different mixes of characters, etc. Changing the 'gimimck' has already been done nearly a dozen times in the same number of years (hell, Skyquake, we're getting a new faction NOW, right?) - clearly that's not helping.


Roberts and Barber had been doing that. It's been pretty popular so far.... But it sure as hell isn't attracting new readers the way Dreamwave, Furman or McCarthy had.

Jaynz
2013-03-08, 02:48 PM
Roberts and Barber had been doing that. It's been pretty popular so far.... But it sure as hell isn't attracting new readers the way Dreamwave, Furman or McCarthy had.

Transformers is a nostalgia brand for many people (such as nearly everyone on this forum), but that isn't a guarantee of large numbers of sales. To put things in perspetive, evne Furman's run (which gets the most attention from fans) doesn't stay in the five digits. That's awful numbers there...

You should always listen to the fans to see what they like, and do your best to please them, but not at the cost of actually having a consumer base. If what the 'hard-core' fans want provably drives your product to the ground, it's well past time to stop listening to them.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-09, 01:42 AM
Transformers is a nostalgia brand for many people (such as nearly everyone on this forum), but that isn't a guarantee of large numbers of sales. To put things in perspetive, evne Furman's run (which gets the most attention from fans) doesn't stay in the five digits. That's awful numbers there...

You should always listen to the fans to see what they like, and do your best to please them, but not at the cost of actually having a consumer base. If what the 'hard-core' fans want provably drives your product to the ground, it's well past time to stop listening to them.


I'd wager Furman actually tried to do something different. But when it turns out the fans don't like seeing Robots In Disguise actually being, well, Robots In DisGuise, he tried to salvage his readerbase with Stormbringer. by then, it was already too late:nonono:

Red Dave Prime
2013-03-09, 04:49 AM
I'd wager Furman actually tried to do something different. But when it turns out the fans don't like seeing Robots In Disguise actually being, well, Robots In DisGuise, he tried to salvage his readerbase with Stormbringer. by then, it was already too late

I kinda agree. I loved the initial idea and the focus on deception and infiltration was excellent. It seemed almost plausible that an invading alien force of powerful but few robots would try and turn nations against each other before picking up the pieces. Pity people didnt go for it.

BUT! I think part of the problem was that Furmans idea was beyond him. You needed some strong human characters and he just couldnt produce any. The pace was wrong as well. There's something to be said for slow-builds but infiltration covers very little actual plot.

Also, I cant be the only person who loved the serious side of the decepticon invasion, only to stare slack-jawed at their super-secret base hidden in plain view on the side of a mountain with a giant decepticon logo on it. That was just pure stupid.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-09, 07:11 AM
I kinda agree. I loved the initial idea and the focus on deception and infiltration was excellent. It seemed almost plausible that an invading alien force of powerful but few robots would try and turn nations against each other before picking up the pieces. Pity people didnt go for it.

BUT! I think part of the problem was that Furmans idea was beyond him. You needed some strong human characters and he just couldnt produce any. The pace was wrong as well. There's something to be said for slow-builds but infiltration covers very little actual plot.

Also, I cant be the only person who loved the serious side of the decepticon invasion, only to stare slack-jawed at their super-secret base hidden in plain view on the side of a mountain with a giant decepticon logo on it. That was just pure stupid.


I'm pretty sure that's the reason why Megatron swooped in to slap the sense back into his mooks. Only loose sense himself later


BTW, could you specify what was wrong with Furman's characters(besides being stock cliches, anyways), I thought they fit the story pretty well.

Skyquake87
2013-03-09, 07:20 AM
Stupid names, for one, and the 'off the shelf' tropes didn't help. The Machination were an unconvincing mix. You want some steely private security firm for that, not a bunch of idiots in fancy dress.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-09, 07:23 AM
Stupid names, for one, and the 'off the shelf' tropes didn't help. The Machination were an unconvincing mix. You want some steely private security firm for that, not a bunch of idiots in fancy dress.

Yeah, it's hard to take Mr. Generic-Rich-Texan-Guy seriously, after all the parodies in cartoons.

Red Dave Prime
2013-03-10, 03:09 AM
I can live with the names.

But given that transformers g1 was always going to be aimed at a retro and therefore older crowd I could never understand why Furman went with Kids as the identifying characters. Why not some serious, adult characters for the Transformers to interact with and maybe add a much needed new take to the story.

In fairness to Simon, I'm not sure any comic version of the transformers have got any decent human characters. They've always felt more like plot points rather than actual characters that can keep a readers interest alongside the robots. For all its faults, AHM probably does it best, but Spike is a terrible creation (even before he really got annoying under costa).

As much as I have slated him, I think the Michael Bay moveies got the best human characters. No, not Sam and his idiot parents, but rather the marines in the first one and Mearing in the third are more the kind of characters I would like to see in the comic.

Skyquake87
2013-03-10, 10:53 AM
I also liked Mikaela from the films. She was a good a character - unfortuante camera pervs aside - and didn't scream like a little girl everytime there was even a whiff of jeopardy. Sheesh Sam was awful, wasn't he - and a total dick to everyone he met, trying that whole Ross-from-Friends wiseass act. What a spanner.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-11, 10:50 AM
I can live with the names.

But given that transformers g1 was always going to be aimed at a retro and therefore older crowd I could never understand why Furman went with Kids as the identifying characters. Why not some serious, adult characters for the Transformers to interact with and maybe add a much needed new take to the story.

In fairness to Simon, I'm not sure any comic version of the transformers have got any decent human characters. They've always felt more like plot points rather than actual characters that can keep a readers interest alongside the robots. For all its faults, AHM probably does it best, but Spike is a terrible creation (even before he really got annoying under costa).

As much as I have slated him, I think the Michael Bay moveies got the best human characters. No, not Sam and his idiot parents, but rather the marines in the first one and Mearing in the third are more the kind of characters I would like to see in the comic.


I dunno, most fans seem to hate the idea of Humanity being anything other than screaming, helpless victims, but then they hate Shia Labeouf(not the character he's playing) too.

Red Dave Prime
2013-03-11, 12:29 PM
I think people dislike stuff like Spike taking down a Decepticon with some household chemicals. I thought the scene in the first bay movie were Scorponok attacks is done really well. The Humans fight back and eventually win out but it takes much more of them.

This works in the overall concept of the TF universe - yes, its two armies. But they are small and heavily personalised so they dont work like Human armies. Instead they have to use their ability to infiltrate to get in an optimum position to attack where their individual troop ability causes much more damage - as in Blackouts helicopter attack. If he had just attacked that base headlong and got blown to pieces I wouldnt have a problem. Instead he uses the helicopter mode to sneak in and destroy the base from within. It's exactly how I would depict transformers vs humans.

Its also why I found myself hating the other 2 Bay movies more than the first. That scene promised so much in my mind but the films gradually abandoned a semi-realistic take for jive talking robots.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-12, 07:53 AM
I think people dislike stuff like Spike taking down a Decepticon with some household chemicals. I thought the scene in the first bay movie were Scorponok attacks is done really well. The Humans fight back and eventually win out but it takes much more of them.

Its also why I found myself hating the other 2 Bay movies more than the first. That scene promised so much in my mind but the films gradually abandoned a semi-realistic take for jive talking robots.

Naw, they were bitching about the humans being too useful (despite their victory hingeing entirely on sucker punching superior foes)even before the 2nd movie, so your point is moot:p


Besides, last I recall, no one had a problem with Spike being uber-badass until Don Figueroa's Bay-inspired new art style. Coincidence? I think not.

Blackjack
2013-03-12, 01:59 PM
Besides, last I recall, no one had a problem with Spike being uber-badass until Don Figueroa's Bay-inspired new art style. Coincidence? I think not.

It's not about Spike being a badass or anything, it's about Spike trash-talking a Decepticon and beating him with utterly and increasingly ridiculous methods and being a general jackass.

And he does that, killing a Transformer who is forced to act like a total buffoon to justify Spike being able to kill him single-handedly, while trash-talking the entire Transformer race. Not just Scrapper, not the Decepticons, he's trash-talking the entire Transformer race. Don't you think that the Transformer fans would like it when an already hateable character goes off and rants about how totally useless and lame giant robots are?

Not to mention that Mike Costa's Spike is a total whiny annoying piece of shit who insults practically every Transformer he meets, who in addition to being an obvious Mary Sue, is probably universally reviled by the fandom all throughout the entire Costa run, up until the obvious retcon that, oops, he's a Decepticon agent and traitor and shit, so he has clearance to be a jackass all along. Whereas McCarthy portrayed him as a cliched and merely annoying generic movie hero guy.

And the issue where he kills Scrapper wasn't drawn by Don Figueroa.

I'm not saying Don Figueroa's new art style is bad (the robot faces themselves are the major complaints I have, otherwise I liked it) but it being the reason why people hate Spike, who is drawn exactly the way he was as in previous IDW portrayals? I think you're drawing at straws to support your ridiculous fandom conspiracies, man.

Back to topic:

I actually liked Prime through both of its seasons, and thought it was as good as Beast Wars, at least... both as a kid's show, as well as a more serious sci-fi story. Animated was much more hammier and kiddier (and annoying, in retrospect) but I really, really do like all of Transformers: Prime, and am really sad to see it cancelled.

But that's just me.

Red Dave Prime
2013-03-12, 07:50 PM
Naw, they were bitching about the humans being too useful (despite their victory hingeing entirely on sucker punching superior foes)even before the 2nd movie, so your point is moot

No, a moot point would be Spike has hair.

Also, I wasn't speaking for all people when I wrote "I thought...". Figured that I was obviously expressing an opinion.

Besides, last I recall, no one had a problem with Spike being uber-badass until Don Figueroa's Bay-inspired new art style. Coincidence? I think not.

People were complaining about Spike as far back as AHM #9. And if the ending to AHM didn't go down well, AHM #16 cemented his position as most peoples pet hate. Well before Don came back to draw for IDW. But Black Jack has explained it better than I could so I'll leave it at that.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-13, 12:39 AM
It's not about Spike being a badass or anything, it's about Spike trash-talking a Decepticon and beating him with utterly and increasingly ridiculous methods and being a general jackass.

And he does that, killing a Transformer who is forced to act like a total buffoon to justify Spike being able to kill him single-handedly, while trash-talking the entire Transformer race. Not just Scrapper, not the Decepticons, he's trash-talking the entire Transformer race. Don't you think that the Transformer fans would like it when an already hateable character goes off and rants about how totally useless and lame giant robots are?

Not to mention that Mike Costa's Spike is a total whiny annoying piece of shit who insults practically every Transformer he meets, who in addition to being an obvious Mary Sue, is probably universally reviled by the fandom all throughout the entire Costa run, up until the obvious retcon that, oops, he's a Decepticon agent and traitor and shit, so he has clearance to be a jackass all along. Whereas McCarthy portrayed him as a cliched and merely annoying generic movie hero guy.

And the issue where he kills Scrapper wasn't drawn by Don Figueroa.

I'm not saying Don Figueroa's new art style is bad (the robot faces themselves are the major complaints I have, otherwise I liked it) but it being the reason why people hate Spike, who is drawn exactly the way he was as in previous IDW portrayals? I think you're drawing at straws to support your ridiculous fandom conspiracies, man.

Back to topic:

I actually liked Prime through both of its seasons, and thought it was as good as Beast Wars, at least... both as a kid's show, as well as a more serious sci-fi story. Animated was much more hammier and kiddier (and annoying, in retrospect) but I really, really do like all of Transformers: Prime, and am really sad to see it cancelled.

But that's just me.

That's a lot of words, but I'll have to concede.

I think Lugnut's kind of cute, though, the way he worships a guy who'd probably scrap him when the first opportunity presents itself.


No, a moot point would be Spike has hair.

Also, I wasn't speaking for all people when I wrote "I thought...". Figured that I was obviously expressing an opinion.



People were complaining about Spike as far back as AHM #9. And if the ending to AHM didn't go down well, AHM #16 cemented his position as most peoples pet hate. Well before Don came back to draw for IDW. But Black Jack has explained it better than I could so I'll leave it at that.


I dunno, most of the AHM fan don't seem to have much of a problem with Spike almost single-handedly turning the tide of the Cybertronian conflict, much less with a weapon more powerful than a goddamn lightsaber (the Mary Sue of Sci-Fi weapons) until Mike Costa came along. Even that one guy didn't complain about it util like, 2-3 years later.

Blackjack
2013-03-13, 10:16 AM
I think Lugnut's kind of cute, though, the way he worships a guy who'd probably scrap him when the first opportunity presents itself.

Where and how did Lugnut come into this discussion? What, are you bringing him in from the other thread and try and turn this into a stereotype-related shouting match again?

Stop bringing in those controversial and offensive topics from the thread that got locked. There is a reason we locked it.

I dunno, most of the AHM fan don't seem to have much of a problem with Spike almost single-handedly turning the tide of the Cybertronian conflict, much less with a weapon more powerful than a goddamn lightsaber (the Mary Sue of Sci-Fi weapons) until Mike Costa came along. Even that one guy didn't complain about it util like, 2-3 years later.

Then these so-called 'AHM fans' and 'one guy' should come here and speak for themselves. Stop parroting their points and then acting as if you don't know anything and point fingers once someone argues the point.

Knightdramon
2013-03-13, 02:05 PM
I think Lugnut's kind of cute, though, the way he worships a guy who'd probably scrap him when the first opportunity presents itself.

I dunno, most of the AHM fan don't seem to have much of a problem with Spike almost single-handedly turning the tide of the Cybertronian conflict, much less with a weapon more powerful than a goddamn lightsaber (the Mary Sue of Sci-Fi weapons) until Mike Costa came along. Even that one guy didn't complain about it util like, 2-3 years later.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh for the love of god.

I swear to god, one of these days one person will be talking about groceries or something and you'll butt in and tell them lettuce is so expensive because Spike shot Megatron in AHM and everybody hates him.

Skyquake87
2013-03-13, 09:50 PM
Then these so-called 'AHM fans' and 'one guy' should come here and speak for themselves. Stop parroting their points and then acting as if you don't know anything and point fingers once someone argues the point.

...I think these 'AHM fans' and 'one guy' are Kungfu Dinobot.


I am reminded of a Far Side cartoon called 'In God's Kitchen' and God has just pulled the freshly baked Earth from the oven (I know! Suspend your disbelief for a moment..!) and has a shaker tub that he is about to pat over the Earth. He is thinking "And just to make things interesting...". The tub is marked 'Jerks'.

maybe he's just here to keep the rest of us sane, who knows...

Red Dave Prime
2013-03-13, 10:54 PM
Oh just wait until he tells you to relax and says you are taking things too seriously. Oh ho ho. Those funny trolls.

Cliffjumper
2013-03-13, 11:32 PM
Hay guyz I dun't rely know much so an we speak about the hitler poltics sum fanz and the raacism? Not a troll just askin LOL!

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-14, 05:17 AM
Where and how did Lugnut come into this discussion? What, are you bringing him in from the other thread and try and turn this into a stereotype-related shouting match again?

Stop bringing in those controversial and offensive topics from the thread that got locked. There is a reason we locked it.


Jesus Christ, you mentioned the Animated characters are annoying, I say I'm pretty fond of Lugnut (the same reason Waspinator is so popular). Nothing wrong with that.


Then these so-called 'AHM fans' and 'one guy' should come here and speak for themselves. Stop parroting their points and then acting as if you don't know anything and point fingers once someone argues the point.


Meh, i'd drop it.


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Oh for the love of god.

I swear to god, one of these days one person will be talking about groceries or something and you'll butt in and tell them lettuce is so expensive because Spike shot Megatron in AHM and everybody hates him.


Hence I said "almost", I doubt Optimus would be able to pull a fast one on Megatron if Spike Witwicky didn't soften him up first.


Also, I don't have a problem with the headshot per se, but the weapon used for it.

...I think these 'AHM fans' and 'one guy' are Kungfu Dinobot


I don't even like AHM at all. I consider it a bigger step backwards for the IDWverse than Stormbringer.


Hay guyz I dun't rely know much so an we speak about the hitler poltics sum fanz and the raacism? Not a troll just askin LOL!

Sheesh, Cliffjumper, I've seen your "Grand Index of the Global Jewish Conspiracy" post (which is, by the way, awesome). You can do so much better than that.

Cliffjumper
2013-03-14, 08:19 AM
Sheesh, Cliffjumper, I've seen your "Grand Index of the Global Jewish Conspiracy" post (which is, by the way, awesome). You can do so much better than that.

What are you dribbling about now, troll? Get the **** back on topic. If you're having trouble picking up on it, pretty much everyone here is tired of your obvious attempts to grab attention and stir up shit. So, stop trolling or get banned, it really is that simple.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-14, 08:29 AM
What are you dribbling about now, troll? Get the **** back on topic. If you're having trouble picking up on it, pretty much everyone here is tired of your obvious attempts to grab attention and stir up shit. So, stop trolling or get banned, it really is that simple.

What does it take to prove that I'm a harmless idiot instead of a malicious troll?


Anyways, TF Prime, I'm disappointed to see it go, but can't really give an ass. It was good, but nothing special. The fact that Shockwave's toy has a lame alt-mode is the 2nd final nail in the coffin. If Hardshell doesn't get a full-size toy that is at the very least, almost as good as the commander class, I'll do something slightly humiliating.

Cliffjumper
2013-03-14, 08:31 AM
What does it take to prove that I'm a harmless idiot instead of a malicious troll?

Less trolling would probably do the trick. No-one's falling for this disingenuous crap you pull out when you get called on it.

Knightdramon
2013-03-14, 02:21 PM
Anyways, TF Prime, I'm disappointed to see it go, but can't really give an ass. It was good, but nothing special. The fact that Shockwave's toy has a lame alt-mode is the 2nd final nail in the coffin. If Hardshell doesn't get a full-size toy that is at the very least, almost as good as the commander class, I'll do something slightly humiliating.

Prep yourself for something humiliating, because it's rumoured that the final, unseen voyager for the line is a Megatron iteration. Which leaves Hardshell out.

It still awes me how people still gawk at Shockwave having yet again a "lame" alt mode. The guy has a running tradition since 1984 of turning into nothings, half forms, and half assed stuff.

If he isn't a space handgun he doesn't transform, then he becomes a tank\crane hybrid, then a space tank, then a tube with wings, then another space tank.

You'd think people would get the gist by now...reading about Shockwave's usual alt modes is to me, like people lamenting on how Optimus Prime is another truck all over again! :lol:

Red Dave Prime
2013-03-14, 02:27 PM
This would be a nice alt-mode (pity its just a Joe toy)

http://tformers.net/g/generated/17826/Transformers%20SDCC%20G.I.%20JOE%20Shockwave%20H.I.S.S.%20Tank%20(1)__scaled_600.jpg

His Alternators form looks good but the robot mode doesn't look as oddly alien as his other toys.

Think you're right though - a good shockwave is really all about the robot mode.

Slayer-Fan123
2013-03-15, 06:21 AM
Absolutely. It's all about that kick-ass gunhand thing.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-15, 11:29 AM
Prep yourself for something humiliating, because it's rumoured that the final, unseen voyager for the line is a Megatron iteration. Which leaves Hardshell out.


I'm already prepped. Waaay ahead of you.


It still awes me how people still gawk at Shockwave having yet again a "lame" alt mode. The guy has a running tradition since 1984 of turning into nothings, half forms, and half assed stuff.


I thought his Animated tank mode was slightly less half-ass than his Prime one, which is a shame, because his Bot Shots Design was so damn awesome.

Summerhayes
2013-03-15, 11:45 AM
It's telling to note that DOTM Shockwave was clearly the character without even having an alt-mode. Though there was a lot of confusion as to whether the big robo-squid was part of him or a vehicle or his pet.

Denyer
2013-03-24, 12:37 PM
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/03/22/transformers-prime-producer-on-the-final-season-and-the-next-transformers-animated-series?abthid=514bc50579c0c38a4c000038

Info-light, but Hasbro seems to have been happy with the direction Prime took.

Skyquake87
2013-03-24, 08:46 PM
Yeah, 65 episodes is good going. I'm still kind of sorry to see it go, whatever my misgivings. Its won me over and I've been enjoying the early episodes all over again on DVD. It's be nice to get some ratings/ demographic information on how well the show performed. I was under the impression that it was doing rather well before the plug was pulled.

Skyquake87
2013-04-25, 08:58 PM
Prime being the slight damp squib it has been in the UK, the toyline has now made its way to Home Bargains, where you can find Deluxes for 5.99 and Voyager toys at 11.99.

Denyer
2013-04-25, 10:20 PM
Might take a wander tomorrow lunch then. Only recently got Ratchet for regular price, though, and not sure I want any of 'em apart from that and Arcee...

Tetsuro
2013-05-21, 02:40 PM
Yeah, 65 episodes is good going.
65 episodes is also exactly how many episodes it takes to reach syndication, and after that they have to give the voice actors a raise...though I think I already told you all this.

Springer85
2013-05-21, 06:22 PM
So is it Hasbro's plan to start a new series every 4 years or something? I've been told that TF: Prime is quite popular. Would be such a shame if they cancelled it just because they don't want to give a raise. Or could it be because they want to keep things fresh?

Blackjack
2013-05-22, 11:52 AM
I'm not sure, could be a bit of either column, but then it's rather disconcerting how they simple ax a new continuity every third season. Admittedly, three seasons is a relatively long time for a cartoon nowadays to go, and Transformers Prime's total episode count is highest compared to other American Transformers shows, but still...

Jaynz
2013-06-03, 02:04 AM
So is it Hasbro's plan to start a new series every 4 years or something? I've been told that TF: Prime is quite popular. Would be such a shame if they cancelled it just because they don't want to give a raise. Or could it be because they want to keep things fresh?

Scuttlebutt is that the next series will be a 'followup' (new show, new mix of characters, a sequel to the continuity), but I imagine that whatever plans are going on, we'll hear about them in more detail (or at least teaser detail) at BotCon.

another tf fan
2013-06-06, 06:29 AM
It's telling to note that DOTM Shockwave was clearly the character without even having an alt-mode. Though there was a lot of confusion as to whether the big robo-squid was part of him or a vehicle or his pet.

No kidding. All it would have taken was a quick addition to Prime's dialog to say it was Shockwave AND his pet, the driller.

It's seems as if the writer was so familiar with the concept of the driller he forgot the audience was new to it. I personally knew what it was because I read the novelization Before seeing the film.