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View Full Version : Why are there so few girl cons?


starlord
2013-02-21, 06:14 AM
Shouldn't there be more? After all, now they have Arcee has a remain character.

Cliffjumper
2013-02-21, 10:40 AM
And they have Airachnid as balance.

Thunderwave
2013-02-21, 11:09 AM
And the Predacons have Ripclaw.

Denyer
2013-02-21, 07:59 PM
Asides from the target audience being young boys, who traditionally take far less interest in the opposite sex as identification characters than vice versa...

Robots don't need sexes or analogues for most other biological traits. The downside of introducing that into the fiction is that people start trying to interpret everything else through the same lens.

On the other hand, it seems perfectly reasonable that as they mimic organics in terms of personality, they might adopt gender behaviours in the same way they might build an identity around transforming into a big metal cat.

With good writers it's possible to do the latter without much of the former.

inflatable dalek
2013-02-21, 08:14 PM
Because girls are yucky.

Knightdramon
2013-02-21, 08:24 PM
Because they don't sell as toys. Probably because they CAN'T sell them as characters, most female toys we got aren't bad.

Hasbro only applies two female archetypes in their TF fiction, one introduced in 1986 and the other in 1996. Arcee is the good girl archetype. She's the good girl, almost always a background character before Prime, where they just made her angrier.

Blackarachnia is the other archetype. She's the femme fatale, the bad girl, the decepticon\predacon like all others; not loyal and with her own agendas. Too bad that's like 70 percent of all bad guys in TF fiction. She continued that way in BM, only infusing Arcee characteristics, then went on in Animated and Prime.

In Animated it's just that they kiddified the archetype a bit and then added drama to make up for it. In Prime they took THAT and added a sadistic angle to it, which failed badly, because both Blackarachnias were portrayed as the weakest bots in their team. How seriously can you take a sick psychopath of a female if even the weakest good guy can get her?

Unless hasbro decides to spread out their bad girl cons personality template, they'll almost always be the weaker backstabbing Starscream with boobs that's slowly written out of their show.

Jaynz
2013-02-21, 08:28 PM
Actually, as far as toys go, they're slightly more numerous than you think..

Crasher/Fracture (Classics Mirage Redeco)
Howlback (G1 Ravage Redeco)
Flipsides (G1 Eject Redeco)
Nightracer (G2 High Beam Redeco)
Flamewar (Energon Arcee Redeco, TPF Cyberverse Arcee Redeco)
Blackarachnia (BW, Universe, TFA)
Strika (BM, Universe)
Shadow Striker (RID Sideburn Redeco)
Thunderblast (Cybertron)
Slipstream (TFP Starscream Redeco)
Airachnid (TFP Deluxe, Cyberverse)
Ripclaw (BH)
Scylla (G1 Tentakill Redeco)
Lyzak (Energon Starscream Redeco, Repurposed)

Knightdramon
2013-02-21, 09:34 PM
Actually, as far as toys go, they're slightly more numerous than you think..

Flamewar (Energon Arcee Redeco, TPF Cyberverse Arcee Redeco)
Blackarachnia (BW, Universe, TFA)
Thunderblast (Cybertron)
Airachnid (TFP Deluxe, Cyberverse)
Ripclaw (BH)


Narrowed it down to more or less the ones that were designed to be female rather than repurposing later on. Could add Transmetals Airrazor and BM Strika in that list.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-22, 02:01 AM
Personally, I chalk it up to Decepticons having naziesque attitudes towards females.:lol:



But yeah, what everyone said.

Cliffjumper
2013-02-22, 04:35 AM
Personally, I chalk it up to Decepticons having naziesque attitudes towards females.:lol:

The Nazis' views on (the 'right' kind of) women were progressive for their time.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-22, 08:29 AM
The Nazis' views on (the 'right' kind of) women were progressive for their time.


Really? That's fascinating! Care to elaborate please?

Jaynz
2013-02-22, 02:45 PM
Really? That's fascinating! Care to elaborate please?

We really don't want to have this discussion here, but what I would recommend to you if you're really curious is to read a lot of the New York Times articles from the early part of the 1930s, up to about late 1937 or so. For that period, most western "Progressives" were full of praise for the Nazi regieme and cited it as the most modern left-wing goverment mankind would come to know.

Cliffjumper
2013-02-22, 06:03 PM
Yep, I would also concur that if you're interested in Nazi history read some stuff on Nazi history. Maybe before you start throwing the word 'naziesque' around. This also applies to any other words or terms you don't understand. Apparently there's some free online encylopedia that gives respectable entry-level explanations to this sort of thing.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-23, 12:52 AM
Aw come on, it not my fault! I've been reading Hipster Hitler and they made fun of his sexism twice:(

Cliffjumper
2013-02-23, 05:29 AM
Aw come on, it not my fault!

Who else is responsible for your ignorance?

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-02-23, 05:48 AM
Who else is responsible for your ignorance?

The National Library Board. They don't have good books on Nazism.


EDIT: also, the guy who did Hipster Hitler.

calvin_0
2013-04-16, 12:51 PM
yeah, fembot in transformer is really rare, most likely its because robot are genderless... since cybertronian dont reproduce like other biological lifeform, having gender doesnt really make sense.

the writer try very hard to justified the existence of fembot and most of them are pretty lame, like G1 Arcee was build because a human blame Optimus Prime for being sexist or Energon Arcee evolved into a fembot to serve as a motivation to the rest of energon miner.

also i dont think there are many people out there who genuinely like fembot as a character. i mean how many people here like G1 Arcee because she is kind and motherly figure who capable of kicking butt?

Cliffjumper
2013-04-16, 01:59 PM
When does she "kick butt" again? The writers, being a bunch of sexist cigar-chomping cardigan-wearing old pricks went out of their way to make the character needless stupid and whiny. The Japanese just cut to the chase by re-employing her as Fortress' secretary.

Furman wasn't much better either - Arcee's role in "Space Pirates" attempts to make the character responsible for the death of nearly every Autobot on Earth simply because she has a poor attention span (the only reason it doesn't work is because the plot's full of holes big enough for Metroplex to climb through).

And then there's the IDW 'Changed Forever' machine: - 1/ feed in unpopular eighties character 2/ have them act the complete opposite to the way they did in the eighties 3/ watch the acclaim roll in because Michael Bay/Shane McCarthy/Bob Budiansky "suck" and any year now the comic might go somewhere.

Tetsuro
2013-04-16, 02:04 PM
Actually, as far as toys go, they're slightly more numerous than you think..
I think he might've talked in terms of a single continuity.

And Crasher is actually a Go-Bot! How does this make you feel?

calvin_0
2013-04-16, 02:30 PM
When does she "kick butt" again?

the original movie there she made her debut...

she help defending the autobot city during the 1st waves attacks, she pawn the motorbike transformer after galvatorn pwn ultra magnus..

IIRC she also save Rodimus Prime in G1 cartoon..

Arcee always been seen as a capable soldier but it often get overshadowed by her motherly side.

Cliffjumper
2013-04-16, 02:34 PM
She ran around and pulled some switches and beat up a Junkion who wasn't trying to kill her. Move over Jakita Wagner...

calvin_0
2013-04-16, 02:42 PM
She ran around and pulled some switches

pull some switches and survived until Optimus show up and got killed by megatron..

Rattrap aunt is awesome.

Cliffjumper
2013-04-16, 03:46 PM
pull some switches and survived until Optimus show up and got killed by megatron.

So "doesn't die" now means the same as "kicks butt".

Wow, Hound sure kicks butt in TF:TM!

calvin_0
2013-04-16, 04:08 PM
So "doesn't die" now means the same as "kicks butt".

Wow, Hound sure kicks butt in TF:TM!

autobot city became almost a ruin before optimus arrive and get killed. not to mention autobot city is in its fortress mode (thanks to arcee and pal), if that doesnt consider as kicks butt, i dont know what else count...

Vin Ghostal
2013-04-16, 09:43 PM
Cooties have no place in Transformers, thank you very much.

Cliffjumper
2013-04-16, 10:56 PM
autobot city became almost a ruin before optimus arrive and get killed. not to mention autobot city is in its fortress mode (thanks to arcee and pal), if that doesnt consider as kicks butt, i dont know what else count...

Actually kicking butt?

So your case is the city almost got destroyed so she must have kicked butt? That the city changed into fortress mode (making next to no difference) so she kicked butt? Compared to, say, Optimus Prime turning up and single-handedly beating up the entire Decepticon army?

It's cute that you want to defend the cartoon girl robot you fancy but you're pissing up the wrong rope here.

calvin_0
2013-04-17, 01:32 PM
So your case is the city almost got destroyed so she must have kicked butt? That the city changed into fortress mode (making next to no difference) so she kicked butt?

yeah, she manage to survived and hold off raid that almost destroyed the a fortress, how do you think she survived if she cant kick butt? hide behind that punk call Hot Rod?

ability to kick butt isnt solely measure the amount of time they did it in on screen. you have to count the number of battle they survived.

not only Arcee survived the initial wave of the decepticon attack that destroyed the autobot city, she also survived the junkbot ambush, inside of unicron, that ambush that got ultra magnus kidnap and many more... Arcee can kick butt, she might not be as good as some of the autobot, but a dazzle in distress she is not. (well maybe in animated, but she is brain dead...)

Skyquake87
2013-04-17, 02:21 PM
Hmm...Animated Arcee is different to Transformers Arcee though, she's an intelligence officer in Animated not a warrior and displays few combat skills.

I'd agree that Transformers Arcee is a capable warrior - her Universe profile clearly has her pegged as an efficient fighter - but there's not really anything in the original Marvel Comics (Prime's Rib being something of a p*ss take on the concept of female Transformers) or the original cartoon to back this up - she fires her gun a few times, but thats all we really see. I don't think there's enough in her fleeting appearances to make out she's Red Sonia or anything though. If anything, Moonracer, Elita-One and uh, the other one of those girl Autobots from S2 were more 'kick butt', being as they were, a small guerilla unit under the command of Alpha Trion.

It does make you wonder why, if boys don't identify with female characters in series like this, why Sunbow thought the need to introduce female robots at all? Mind you, this was from the same 'creative power house' that brought us Carnage In C Minor and other flippant nonsense under the Transformers banner, so who knows?

calvin_0
2013-04-17, 03:21 PM
It does make you wonder why, if boys don't identify with female characters in series like this, why Sunbow thought the need to introduce female robots at all?

maybe they got pressured into it? gender equality and all... after all that is one of the Arcee's origin >.>

its clear that Arcee wasnt there to sell toys..

Jaynz
2013-04-17, 03:33 PM
maybe they got pressured into it? gender equality and all... after all that is one of the Arcee's origin >.>

its clear that Arcee wasnt there to sell toys..

Arcee's inclusion in 1985 was a mix of both union casting rules for TF:TM and that Sunbow was just seriously aping Star Wars and needed their Princess Leia.

Cliffjumper
2013-04-17, 04:33 PM
yeah, she manage to survived and hold off raid that almost destroyed the a fortress, how do you think she survived if she cant kick butt? hide behind that punk call Hot Rod?

Well, yes. There's nothing to suggest she did anything but hide and/or run away in those situations. The idea that she somehow held off the raid is wishful thinking.

calvin_0
2013-04-17, 05:02 PM
Well, yes. There's nothing to suggest she did anything but hide and/or run away in those situations. The idea that she somehow held off the raid is wishful thinking.

so fighting an off screen battle must mean they are hiding and nothing more, right?

going by that logic, i guess hot rod, springer and the rest of the autobot in autobot city run away and hide while ultra magnus, percepsion and blaster fought megatron and devastator until optimus arrive. then hot rod run off to get optimus prime killed.

how is it hod rod end up being the chosen one again?

if Arcee isnt capable of kicking butt, she would.

1. dies during the decepticon attacks
2. getting caught by the junkbot
3. getting drag off by unicron tentacles.

so Arcee capable surviving all that, either mean, she can kick butt or she is the luckiest autobot ever.

Warcry
2013-04-17, 05:03 PM
Arcee's inclusion in 1985 was a mix of both union casting rules
I've never heard that tidbit before. What exactly do you mean?

Jaynz
2013-04-17, 06:43 PM
I've never heard that tidbit before. What exactly do you mean?

Going from my old man's memory from a Susan Blu interview, without Arcee the casting for TF:TM would have been 100-percent male, which was an absolute no-no. (To back this up a little bit, I've also heard from some Hollywood directors this is one reason war movies often have love interests, etc., shoe-horned into them, even if they're set in the Pacific theater in WWII... )

Well, yes. There's nothing to suggest she did anything but hide and/or run away in those situations. The idea that she somehow held off the raid is wishful thinking.

Actually, in all fairness, there's nothing to really suggest that Arcee was anything other than a typical Autobot in skill and power. She didn't seem to fare better or worse than most of the other newcomers (aside from the obvious Magnus and Rodimus). It's an Autobot who happened to be female...

Thunderwave
2013-04-18, 03:10 AM
Arcee's inclusion in 1985 was a mix of both union casting rules for TF:TM and that Sunbow was just seriously aping Star Wars and needed their Princess Leia.

Except, of course, that Princess Leia was about 1000x more "kick ass" then Arcee. iirc Leia has a higher shot:hit ratio then Han and Luke during the film and managed to resist two types of torture. Arcee just kinda fired a few shots, ran around, and kept Daniel alive.

calvin_0
2013-04-18, 07:11 AM
Except, of course, that Princess Leia was about 1000x more "kick ass" then Arcee. iirc Leia has a higher shot:hit ratio then Han and Luke during the film and managed to resist two types of torture. Arcee just kinda fired a few shots, ran around, and kept Daniel alive.

no objection there, but to be fair, Arcee and Princess Leia is in a complete differ level. Arcee is just a support character (even in her debut movie) while Princess Leia is a main character.

Jaynz
2013-04-18, 02:49 PM
Except, of course, that Princess Leia was about 1000x more "kick ass" then Arcee. iirc Leia has a higher shot:hit ratio then Han and Luke during the film and managed to resist two types of torture. Arcee just kinda fired a few shots, ran around, and kept Daniel alive.

Well, to be fair to Arcee's character, that's more a result of about 1/2 of the movie spending time 'showing off the new toys' rather than building up any of the characters other than Hot Rod. In hindsight, I would have rather gotten rid of the Odessa arc completely and used that time to add more character depth.. but, selling toys has never been a big motivator from my writer's approach. :)