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Addl
2013-05-10, 10:36 AM
As we have financial problems in the EU, a civil war in Syria, and malfunctioning integration of foreigners in Germany, still the news has three major topics which seems to block time of the politicians and seems to be interesting:

- woman quota. In top management boards they want to implement quotas, like e.g. 40%.
How stupid. If a woman is capable, she will get the job anyway, the fact they get children and may be absent for 2 years is biology and definitely a reason to prefer a man in the 30s if no kids so far and every woman would have a sticker on them "only got job because of quota"

- tempo limit on highway. They are discussing to set it to 120 km/h.
Stupid. Most accidents are not on highway and if, than at lower speeds because of traffic density. And the environment Heath will not change if a very small number drive slower in comparison to the millions of cars on the street every day.
Stupid comment: you do not have to drive 250, you also can get to your goal in similar time with 120.
Yes... You do not also have to drink beer or wine, you can meet your thirst with water.
Yes... You do not need to fly to Spain for vacation, this is also possible in your backyard.

Stupid comment 2: our neighbors also do it.
Yes...my neighbor also pained his house green, why should I?

- a 93 year old concentration camp guard: they will trial him for assisting murder as he was a guard 70 years ago at 20 years in a different world... Leave him be.
Others big fish on allied side were never tried after the war, so give it a rest finally for the simple folk.


Now any exiting news from your country which is ranking higher in the news than e.g. Syria?

Knightdramon
2013-05-10, 12:34 PM
Unless we have some fellows from a third world country or a country in civil war, I'm thinking Greece naturally has the worst news\waste of time topics at the moment :lol:

1) Naturally, the impossibly stupid Greek government tries to get all the financial weight onto the shoulders of the average joe instead of the high-end scumbags that stole billions of euros. This means that the average high profile con roams free and still evades taxes while a casual family pays thousands of euros on made-up taxes each month. There's this law that they passed where each household, built illegally or not, has to pay X amount of euros, depending on its size and area, no matter if you've already bought and completely paid off the house 50 years ago. Essentially they're making up a tax to get more money to pay off their loans. One scumbag politician that voted for this even had the f*cking nerve to come out and publicly say that he's got five houses to his name and can't pay the tax for all of them, so he's going to sell one to make it more affordable. So, what the f*ck happens to a family that has just ONE house and still can't afford the tax?

2) This is very recent, days old, but public education teachers publicly announced that they're not going to work at all towards exams to get high school students to universities. Yeah, you read it right. They had a lot of budget cut off from the education department so they just decided that an entire generation of kids won't just stay out of any higher education, but will not even get the chance to take the exams for it.

3) The government not only has the nerve to slash down pensions and savings in various insurance sectors and whatnot, effectively eating up the savings of 20+ years of many people, but they're lowering the minimum wage to Balcan-low. Most people I know, around my age, work for 400 or so euros, 8hours per day, most of the times 7 days per week. Companies ask for employers with 4-5 years of experience on their sector, with masters degrees and the like, for 700 or so euros per month.

And just to top it off, the La Guarde [or how it's spelled] list, essentially the list with the off-shore deposits [read black money] of dozens of politicians and high-profile people, who CANNOT justify having that sort of savings with any sort of job, disappears from the office it was left at. So politicians with, say, 50.000 euros income per year have deposits of 700.000 euros off-shore, cannot justify how they made that money, have it abroad where it won't be taxed, and conveniently have a veil over them so the people can't know exactly who, why, and how, is responsible for huge amounts of cash being absent from the Greek government.

Just perfect :up:

inflatable dalek
2013-05-10, 10:18 PM
Ah, the press will always be full of fluff stories (which celebrity did what to which other celebrity). That's easy enough to ignore. And the news outlets for a specific country (or region, I find the Kidderminster Shuttle a bore but I'm not upset it doesn't cover the news from Syria) will always focus on the news that specifically affects the people who are going to be reading it.


- woman quota. In top management boards they want to implement quotas, like e.g. 40%.
How stupid. If a woman is capable, she will get the job anyway, the fact they get children and may be absent for 2 years is biology and definitely a reason to prefer a man in the 30s if no kids so far and every woman would have a sticker on them "only got job because of quota"

The problem there is though, capable women don't aren't as likely to get the job as an equally capable man is. It's sad that is still the case in the 21st century, and frankly discounting someone for a job because of something they might do is complete bollocks (now, if a woman being interviewed for a job came in saying "I'm planning to get knocked up... a lot. Repeatedly" you'd have grounds not to give it to them, otherwise random possibilities shouldn't be a consideration).


- a 93 year old concentration camp guard: they will trial him for assisting murder as he was a guard 70 years ago at 20 years in a different world... Leave him be.
Others big fish on allied side were never tried after the war, so give it a rest finally for the simple folk.

Frankly, if you have "Concentration Camp" on your employment CV, you should be investigated and required to stand trial if there's sufficient grounds to do so. If I were to murder one person and not have that be found out till I was 60 years older then "Oh come on, it was years ago!" or "Well, there are other murders that haven't had a conviction!" would be no defence. If a person has been involved in attempted genocide, age and time should be no factor whatsoever.

There's been a slightly related quote in the UK this week, where we've had a top barrister saying with a straight face that Stuart Hall shouldn't have been convicted of his child molestation crimes because they were so long ago (and in this case because apparently the lawyer thinks the age of consent in the UK is wrong and because no one else accused of what he did would have been handed such a severe sentence- the last part ignoring both that the sheer volume of his admitted crimes was a factor and that he basically plea bargained his way out of a child rape charge).

Even though I'm generally a wooly liberal, I do think there are some crimes there should not be a statute of limitations on. mass murder and molesting kids being just two of them.

And my real problem with the seeming smugness of this thread, is that is assumes there are people out there who are completely unaware there are parts of the world that are much more ****ed up than the one they live in (except of course, for those poor buggers who live at the bottom of the chain in that one place that is more ****ed up than anywhere else).

The irony here is Addl has a rant at "local" stories filling up the news rather than big scale horrible events like Syria... But then proceeds to rant about stories that are directly related to Germany- and the speed limit one in incredibly provincial- without offering a single thought on what he thinks about what has happened in Syria.

Ultimately, it's entirely possible to both care about the big picture of events happening around the world and be especially interested in things that directly affect your life on a day to day basis. I think most of us do it all the time. Hence me both following the descent of the British light entertainment industry into a massive paedophile ring and being interested in the possible prosecution of a former World War II concentration camp guard. Multi tasking.

Denyer
2013-05-10, 11:11 PM
random possibilities
More people are opting to be child-free these days, but it's not random -- about a probability of 0.5 versus a probability of 0. In terms of what's best for a business's bottom line and providing continuity of service, there's a case for picking male employees, other things (health in particular) being roughly equal. In terms of what's best for society (and the need to maintain a population) this isn't necessarily borne out -- pun intended -- and hence there's legislation and some central govt support.

(This is obviously a bigger deal in job roles that require specialist knowledge than those where you can quickly fill temporary vacancies with equally competent staff.)

If I were to murder one person and not have that be found out till I was 60 years older then "Oh come on, it was years ago!" or "Well, there are other murders that haven't had a conviction!" would be no defence. If a person has been involved in attempted genocide, age and time should be no factor whatsoever.
However, being in an environment in which the options were go along or be shot should... and being employed in a camp doesn't equate to having killed. It's a subject on which knee-jerk reactions and desires to scapegoat and make public examples come to the fore.

As vile as it was, there isn't any good purpose served by trying for murder those who shot conscientious objectors either. Cultures have undergone massive change.

edit: And whilst there are people whose persecution I'd cheerfully celebrate, people who are now pushing a hundred in relation to things over half a century ago aren't easily counted in that number. Maybe if they were still raving about it as a positive thing.

inflatable dalek
2013-05-11, 12:05 AM
More people are opting to be child-free these days, but it's not random -- about a probability of 0.5 versus a probability of 0. In terms of what's best for a business's bottom line and providing continuity of service, there's a case for picking male employees, other things (health in particular) being roughly equal. In terms of what's best for society (and the need to maintain a population) this isn't necessarily borne out -- pun intended -- and hence there's legislation and some central govt support.

(This is obviously a bigger deal in job roles that require specialist knowledge than those where you can quickly fill temporary vacancies with equally competent staff.)

Though equally in any job where you can't be easily and quickly replaced any man who might become a father and take off the (UK) paid paternity leave is just as much a liability.

Slightly related: Even though my job is technically one any idiot with full use of their limbs could do I actually found out this week I am irreplaceable. For wacky budgetary reasons that have no basis in reality if I were to be forced to take a prolonged leave of absence for any reason (illness, bereavement, paternity leave) I wouldn't be replaced despite our department being badly short staffed. In those circumstances giving the job to a man like me, who has been known to occasionally ejaculate in women of childbearing age, is a really bad idea as it could lead to me getting weeks off without replacement somewhere down the line.


However, being in an environment in which the options were go along or be shot should... and being employed in a camp doesn't equate to having killed. It's a subject on which knee-jerk reactions and desires to scapegoat and make public examples come to the fore.


Well yeah, but that's what a trial (which seems to be what Addl is objecting too) would look into. I'm assuming Addl is talking about this story HERE (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22427976), a quick google didn't come up with much more than him being a very wanted man, but equally no evidence that he wouldn't get a fair trial. If there is a (non right wing nutter) link to suggest people who worked at concentration camps are not fairly protected by the legal system when their involvement is investigated I'll concede the point, otherwise age should not be a factor in looking into these things.


As vile as it was, there isn't any good purpose served by trying for murder those who shot conscientious objectors either. Cultures have undergone massive change.

Well, ignoring for the second that- sadly IMHO (and I do think those shot for desertion in World War One deserve a posthumous pardon for all sorts of reasons)- none of the "Crimes" that led to those executions have ever been formally reversed...

That still basically boils down to "Other people got away with stuff... why not this guy?". If he is culpable (and that is if), this gentleman will have potentially helped murder a great, great many people who never did anything to anyone ever (depending on things like length of service it could even be into the thousands). I cannot see anyway that should not be at least be looked into.

And if it's already at the stage he's formally in custody, there must be more than enough good evidence for the prosecution to build a solid case that he wasn't just making soup. That doesn't mean that, again assuming a fair trial, he won't be found innocent (especially considering the sheer length of time must limit the amount of witnesses and surviving documentation if nothing else), but it isn't wrong or evil to try and track down and find those responsible for the holocaust regardless of the length of time.

And personally (and this paragraph isn't objective, and I certainly wouldn't expect this sort of thinking to stand up in a court of law, that's why justice should be cold and impartial, so it can be fair) I think there is a point where any validity "I was just following orders" "My own life was at risk" or "It was war" style excuses might have had go out the window. You help murder hundreds/thousands of people because you're scared of what might happen to you if you don't... then you're culpable because you have consciously made that choice.

Denyer
2013-05-11, 12:08 PM
any man who might become a father and take off the (UK) paid paternity leave is just as much a liability
Again, the stats don't bear it out. Take-up of the one or two weeks is increasing, but there aren't the issues with time taken off beforehand and most people don't go for the extended block afterwards because they'll be effectively sidelined.

Again, the idea has merit, but for society rather than those trying to run businesses.

For wacky budgetary reasons that have no basis in reality if I were to be forced to take a prolonged leave of absence for any reason (illness, bereavement, paternity leave) I wouldn't be replaced despite our department being badly short staffed
Oh, Tesco'll shuffle things around if they really need to. It's just preferable to put the additional load on existing staff.

If there is a (non right wing nutter) link to suggest people who worked at concentration camps are not fairly protected by the legal system when their involvement is investigated
John Demjanjuk. Convicted on the basis of being present, rather than evidence of murder. Widely reported at the time and set legal precedents.

if it's already at the stage he's formally in custody, there must be more than enough good evidence for the prosecution to build a solid case
Most countries, including the UK, have legal powers to basically hold anyone indefinitely on thin pretext. They tend only to be exercised where the folk using them aren't going to be found out and challenged, and where public support can be relied on for emotive justification. It's the "where there's smoke there's fire" fallacy that's seen people lynched due to mistaken identity, nevermind the actual extent of involvement in things.

justice should be cold and impartial
Nah, that's law rather than justice.

inflatable dalek
2013-05-11, 06:36 PM
Oh, Tesco'll shuffle things around if they really need to. It's just preferable to put the additional load on existing staff.

Therin lies a tale to tell over a few beers, but suffice to say the practicalities of the real world don't much apply to that wacky place.

John Demjanjuk. Convicted on the basis of being present, rather than evidence of murder. Widely reported at the time and set legal precedents.

Now that's interesting, if there is a precedent for mistreatment of such people then it is an area of concern.

Though the problem Addl seemed to have with this story in his opening post is simply that it was too long ago rather than any potential miscarriage of justice.


Nah, that's law rather than justice.


The one should lead to the other though.

Denyer
2013-05-12, 02:30 PM
Therin lies a tale to tell over a few beers, but suffice to say the practicalities of the real world don't much apply to that wacky place.
Yeah, can compare horror stories if I make it to AA this time...

Though the problem Addl seemed to have with this story in his opening post is simply that it was too long ago rather than any potential miscarriage of justice.
It's still a big factor; there's unlikely to be any good served by dragging a 93-year-old through the courts for several years (cause célèbre; this won't be quick). You're working with evidence filtered by extremely long periods of time and an acquittal (in a fair trial, very likely -- lack of forensic evidence, the most you're likely to prove is that someone was there and the rest is heavy on "he said, she said" accusations) means you've burned through the time they have left, assuming no death during the process.

one should lead to the other
Should but the more I'm involved the less faith I have in legal systems (especially the people constituting them) or laws as written and enacted.

Cyberstrike nTo
2013-05-13, 12:56 AM
1) The Republicans hold more hearings on Benghazi. And learn nothing new or important They're looking for a scandal to lay on the Obama Administration and try to hurt Hillary Clinton if she runs in 2016. All they found is that the talking points given to the Ambassador who went on weekend news shows were changed 12 times before she went on the air and that the head of the miltary who was supposed to defend the Consulate didn't think that they couldn't get their in time to save them. OK both of them look bad but look under the surface and you see that when the attack happened that they didn't know all the details and the talking points were changed, I wonder how many times the talking points for Dubya was changed on 9/11/01 probably a lot more than 12 times. Even if the US miltary had been sent in they wouldn't have gotten there in time to save anybody. This hearing was hyped up on FNC and even they couldn't go on and cut to the 3 surviors of that madman in Cleaveland coming home after 10 years trapped in what can be only described as a living hell.


2) Neoconservative chicken hawks want the US to start bombing the government controlled areas of Syria, never mind the fact that a portion of the rebels are not friendly to the US.


3) Senator Elisabeth Warren offers a bill in the senate to lower interest rates on student loans to same levels as the ones the big banks gets IIRC it's 0.75% and wants to pass it before July when the intrest rates on the loans go up.

Addl
2013-05-14, 01:25 AM
Thank you Knightdramon and Cyberstrike for answering this thread and providing an insight to your headlines in Greece and USA.

I did not want to start a discussion on my three examples or even a WW2/Nazi debate once more, but it seems I failed as some posters take every chance they get.

Anyway I will just google what I want to know, even if I cannot read the language and stop the initiative to write something more interesting than what DVDs I bought in the past on this forum.

Now to the comments of dalek:

Ah, the press will always be full of fluff stories (which celebrity did what to which other celebrity). That's easy enough to ignore. And the news outlets for a specific country (or region, I find the Kidderminster Shuttle a bore but I'm not upset it doesn't cover the news from Syria) will always focus on the news that specifically affects the people who are going to be reading it.


Generally dalek is right here, but I am referring to to biggest, national news in Germany, not some celebrity or color "news" for the unwashed. This is Tagesschau, which I read every morning in the subway and I was astonished that even they bring this kind of stuff.


The problem there is though, capable women don't aren't as likely to get the job as an equally capable man is. It's sad that is still the case in the 21st century, and frankly discounting someone for a job because of something they might do is complete bollocks (now, if a woman being interviewed for a job came in saying "I'm planning to get knocked up... a lot. Repeatedly" you'd have grounds not to give it to them, otherwise random possibilities shouldn't be a consideration).


In this quote dalek writes bollocks, as all decisions in life are only done on Probability. If you want to reach a goal, you always pick the option which has more chance to get there as you do a prognosis of how the future would develop.
This is why there is "profiling".
You collect data of some people and try to get with this data a higher probability to find people with certain behaviors. This is normal academic control design.
You bring your car to the official garage, because the probability is much higher they fix your car, than your neighbor.
You employ a person with a master in engineering and work history in automotive to work in your engineering team, because the probability is higher he/she can solve your problems than someone who plays piano.
I do not employ a 30 year old ean with no kids, if you have an equal educated man, as the chance of not being available is higher on the woman's side.
Very simple.
No discrimination, only politically incorrect, and this is bull...



Frankly, if you have "Concentration Camp" on your employment CV, you should be investigated and required to stand trial if there's sufficient grounds to do so. If I were to murder one person and not have that be found out till I was 60 years older then "Oh come on, it was years ago!" or "Well, there are other murders that haven't had a conviction!" would be no defence. If a person has been involved in attempted genocide, age and time should be no factor whatsoever.


As Denyer already posted, it is about the timing.
It makes no sense and no one will have a benefit from dragging a 93 year old through the court.
He will be dead anyway soon, and this publicy might even speed up a heart attack. Then also this would be planned homocide...
Maybe he had a hard life, maybe not. Hopefully he regretted what he did as an aduld and old man, but it is ridiculous the trial him now for 70 years ago if I think back how I acted as a 20 year old... Which is only 17 years ago.
The most important reason is: I can understand rage and revenge in the post war era... German politicians and officers were hanged, while allied and Russians got statues. The victor writes history.
But even in a global world, EU and Internet the war crimes and atrocities against civilians of the Russian (rape of aprox 2 mio wen of whom ten-thousands died of the torture) and western allies (aprox 750k died in bombings, over tens-thousands soldiers after war ending in American pow camps (that is why our soldiers were never called POWs, but DEP and SEU so rule applied like in Guantanamo), more than a million civilians by ordered starvation of Eisenhower, 10k raped by French in Stuttgart, legal plundering of civilian goods and sending home via army mail of American forces, etc) no one of the Russians or allies was dragged to court, no apologies were ever made by the allies even after 70 years but now, again they found some German guy to prosecute.
It is ridiculous and enough.


There's been a slightly related quote in the UK this week, where we've had a top barrister saying with a straight face that Stuart Hall shouldn't have been convicted of his child molestation crimes because they were so long ago (and in this case because apparently the lawyer thinks the age of consent in the UK is wrong and because no one else accused of what he did would have been handed such a severe sentence- the last part ignoring both that the sheer volume of his admitted crimes was a factor and that he basically plea bargained his way out of a child rape charge).

Even though I'm generally a wooly liberal, I do think there are some crimes there should not be a statute of limitations on. mass murder and molesting kids being just two of them.


While agreeing to dalek last sentence, I wonder why mass murder and rape (of children, all the Russians could get their hands on) is not a crime if against the favor of the faction who is making the rules.
Rape, plunder, murder is okay, as long as you are on the winning side.

For me these German people are not just people, they are the generation of my grandparents who suffered silmilar. Both sides being Prussian, they were caught by the Russian front, rasped, beaten up and plundered out several times. In the action, my 2 years old aunt was killed. After 1945 by allied agreement, the polish came again with clubs and beat them out of their homes on foot to the new German border.
They suffered violance, rape, murder of child, loss of all belongings and driven off their generations old home. They died never getting any apology or understanding. But then, this was not a crime and when we German want do discuss this, we hear also from our government " do not dig up these old stories, they are long past, leave it at rest.

But to satisfy the strange relationship to Israel and a list with a name on it , this old story is dug up and important to the press.

Not justice, this is show and ridiculous.


And my real problem with the seeming smugness of this thread, is that is assumes there are people out there who are completely unaware there are parts of the world that are much more ****ed up than the one they live in (except of course, for those poor buggers who live at the bottom of the chain in that one place that is more ****ed up than anywhere else).

The irony here is Addl has a rant at "local" stories filling up the news rather than big scale horrible events like Syria... But then proceeds to rant about stories that are directly related to Germany- and the speed limit one in incredibly provincial- without offering a single thought on what he thinks about what has happened in Syria.


At first I had to look up the word smugness.
Not the word I would use if meant "to flatter oneself".

Dalek obviously was not capable to understand the request of this thread to be an insight to other country's inner news, as I only get local German and Chinese news, these being very different.

It make me wonder if a discussion with a poster like dalek is possible, if he writes a reason like "without offering a single thought on Syria" because this is not the intention of the thread and impossible to always talk about everything. One has to narrow down a topic, otherwise discussion impossible, as there is another related topic opened by every participate.

This being written, dalek is happily invited to open a discussion on the civil war in Syria. I will not as I also do not want to talk about sunshine when opening a thread on rain. In school we used to call this loss of focus in an essay.


Ultimately, it's entirely possible to both care about the big picture of events happening around the world and be especially interested in things that directly affect your life on a day to day basis. I think most of us do it all the time. Hence me both following the descent of the British light entertainment industry into a massive paedophile ring and being interested in the possible prosecution of a former World War II concentration camp guard. Multi tasking.

Again dalek is right on the ability to multitask, but fails to get the point.

The ranking of the news on the major national news channel. Be it pope election, speed limit or nazi, how can this be above the news of euro and Syria? It gets bored to read again about a random bombing in irak?

Let's give the user dalek some credit for trying, I do not think he ment any harm.

Skyquake87
2013-05-14, 08:22 AM
In the UK, the biggest news stories are our ongoing 'debate' about whether to leave the EU. Now there's huge economic problems, calls to leave the EU are growing ever louder and the rise of far right parties like UKIP have got our right-leaning Coalition government in a lather (especially as the Conservative section of our Liberal-Conservative government is traditionally Euro-sceptic). A lot of this is borne out by the usual panic that we're going to be flooded with immigrants stealing our benefits and jobs (the latter is a funny one - so many folk on job seekers seem to moan there's no work out there, yet all these immigrants seem to find work over here, funny that...).

A lot of the problems folk have with the EU is the 'interferring' laws that are ladled out to us from Brussells. A lot of these laws are actually quite sensible, its just the way they are often implemented by our government (whilst other EU countries seem to sensibly apply, say farming regulations to take into account the local geography there's none of that in the UK). A recent good example would be the business of an EU ban on neonictinoids - the pesticides that the EU have linked to a decline in the bee population. We were strongly opposed to this on the back of research conducted for the UK government...funded and carried out by the large chemical companies that produce the pesticides in the first place!

As mentioned by Dalek and Denyer, if you were a major light entertainment celebrity working for the BBC between the '60s and '80s or have been interviewed by Louis Theroux at some point, chances are you'll be having your collar felt by the boys in blue. Recently, West Yorkshire police produced a report saying there was 'insufficient evidence' to move to prosecute Saville whilst he was alive. They did this with a straight face knowing that some of their officers had attended coffee mornings at Saville's flat. So why is there evidence suddenly coming to light some 20 - 30 years later...?

More locally, Bradford council have bought the derelict Odeon cinema back from a former government Quango for a £1 so might finally do something to restore the building ( a lovely early c20th theatre / cinema left to rot when Odeon cinemas decided having a cinema in the city centre was pointless...and moved a mile outside the city centre where no one goes, meantime cineworld seem to have been doing a roaring trade operating in,er, Bradford city centre). Only that huge hole where we were supposed to have a new shopping/ office complex to go! hooray!

inflatable dalek
2013-05-14, 08:27 PM
Thank you Knightdramon and Cyberstrike for answering this thread and providing an insight to your headlines in Greece and USA.

I did not want to start a discussion on my three examples or even a WW2/Nazi debate once more, but it seems I failed as some posters take every chance they get.

Anyway I will just google what I want to know, even if I cannot read the language and stop the initiative to write something more interesting than what DVDs I bought in the past on this forum.[quote]

Well firstly this is a discussion forum, people are actually supposed to discuss what people post about. If you just wanted a list of news stories without any conversation on them then yes, Google is your friend.

[quote]
Generally dalek is right here, but I am referring to to biggest, national news in Germany, not some celebrity or color "news" for the unwashed. This is Tagesschau, which I read every morning in the subway and I was astonished that even they bring this kind of stuff.

Of the three stories you posted two of them have a potentially huge impact on the life of the average German- affecting their employment chances (both for and against) and altering the journey times of the bulk of commuters. How is it unreasonable that they wouldn't be big front page news in that country?

The third, a high profile crime trail that at this point stands to be the one of the last to deal with the fall out from the worst war of the last century. Again, the interest is understandable and to the benefit of the aqused. If there is going to be some sort of stitch up of him having it happen under the glaze of the media reduces the chance of its success. It also increases the chances of what surviving witnesses there may be coming forward, either to go "Yep, he was a cook" or "The only thing he baked was bodies".



As Denyer already posted, it is about the timing.
It makes no sense and no one will have a benefit from dragging a 93 year old through the court.
He will be dead anyway soon, and this publicy might even speed up a heart attack. Then also this would be planned homocide...
Maybe he had a hard life, maybe not. Hopefully he regretted what he did as an aduld and old man, but it is ridiculous the trial him now for 70 years ago if I think back how I acted as a 20 year old... Which is only 17 years ago.
The most important reason is: I can understand rage and revenge in the post war era... German politicians and officers were hanged, while allied and Russians got statues. The victor writes history.
But even in a global world, EU and Internet the war crimes and atrocities against civilians of the Russian (rape of aprox 2 mio wen of whom ten-thousands died of the torture) and western allies (aprox 750k died in bombings, over tens-thousands soldiers after war ending in American pow camps (that is why our soldiers were never called POWs, but DEP and SEU so rule applied like in Guantanamo), more than a million civilians by ordered starvation of Eisenhower, 10k raped by French in Stuttgart, legal plundering of civilian goods and sending home via army mail of American forces, etc) no one of the Russians or allies was dragged to court, no apologies were ever made by the allies even after 70 years but now, again they found some German guy to prosecute.
It is ridiculous and enough.

Well firstly, wanting Nazi's brought to justice doesn't preclude wanting other war criminals brought to book as well. You're- rightly- disguested at the things that happened at the fall of Berlin and if I'm sure if anyone responsible was arrested now I'm sure you'd- rightly- support their prosecution. But don't forget that Nazi's were responsible for horrible crimes against Germany's Jewish and other minority populations as well.

And whilst the persecution of those who carried out attrocities in World War II is about to become a moot point, there have sadly been many other such events in the years since. Those who were responsible for events in places like Yugoslavia should never have the chance to get away with it just by being hiding for decades.




At first I had to look up the word smugness.
Not the word I would use if meant "to flatter oneself".

Dalek obviously was not capable to understand the request of this thread to be an insight to other country's inner news, as I only get local German and Chinese news, these being very different.

It make me wonder if a discussion with a poster like dalek is possible, if he writes a reason like "without offering a single thought on Syria" because this is not the intention of the thread and impossible to always talk about everything. One has to narrow down a topic, otherwise discussion impossible, as there is another related topic opened by every participate.

This being written, dalek is happily invited to open a discussion on the civil war in Syria. I will not as I also do not want to talk about sunshine when opening a thread on rain. In school we used to call this loss of focus in an essay.



Again dalek is right on the ability to multitask, but fails to get the point.

The ranking of the news on the major national news channel. Be it pope election, speed limit or nazi, how can this be above the news of euro and Syria? It gets bored to read again about a random bombing in irak?

Let's give the user dalek some credit for trying, I do not think he ment any harm.


Right, once again: Discussion forum. Every post in this thread has been on topic whether you like it or not. The original poster does not get to set what people do or do not discuss about their points either. And frankly, if you were to start a thread about sunshine what would be so stupid about someone going "We've not seen the sun here for months because of the rain". Or responding to a thread about Syria with "The way the news here reports on things like positive discrimination cases instead of focusing on real news like this is disgraceful"?

And my point was relevant, you complained about something and then did exactly what you were complaining about by sharing those same news stories you didn't think were important enough to make the front page in the first place.

And for someone who claims not to be familiar with smugness you demonstrate an able ability to radiate it. That last sentence in particular is wonderfully patronising.

Addl
2013-05-17, 11:31 AM
[QUOTE=Addl;729422]
Well firstly this is a discussion forum, people are actually supposed to discuss what people post about. If you just wanted a list of news stories without any conversation on them then yes, Google is your friend.
[/query]

You are right about the discussion board and everybody is welcome to discuss be it of different opinions. Nevertheless I did not expect the second topic to be absolutely not a reply to my thread question, but an analysis of the news contents as well as a statement to the thread style.

[quote]
Well firstly, wanting Nazi's brought to justice doesn't preclude wanting other war criminals brought to book as well. You're- rightly- disguested at the things that happened at the fall of Berlin and if I'm sure if anyone responsible was arrested now I'm sure you'd- rightly- support their prosecution. But don't forget that Nazi's were responsible for horrible crimes against Germany's Jewish and other minority populations as well.

And whilst the persecution of those who carried out attrocities in World War II is about to become a moot point, there have sadly been many other such events in the years since. Those who were responsible for events in places like Yugoslavia should never have the chance to get away with it just by being hiding for decades.


Sure the Nazi armed forces SS, Waffen SS, parts of the Wehrmacht, etc started to commit crimes, but I still strongly argument that all crimes are crimes and the first crime fine makes the second crime okay.
But this is done with exactly that excuse: well you (Germany) started.
Here we have the case, that you kill my family, then I can go and kill and rape your family aswell without having to fear consequences and even after 7 decades, where we became friends, I never told you " sorry I also did wrong things".
I am very well aware of the facts and I can understand post war revenge or even this being done by another criminal regime like the Stalinismus and later Cold War Russia , but from a western democracy " the self proclaimed good ones" I would have expected different warfare or at least a forthcoming somewhere alone the line when we became allies and friends.



Right, once again: Discussion forum. Every post in this thread has been on topic whether you like it or not. The original poster does not get to set what people do or do not discuss about their points either. And frankly, if you were to start a thread about sunshine what would be so stupid about someone going "We've not seen the sun here for months because of the rain". Or responding to a thread about Syria with "The way the news here reports on things like positive discrimination cases instead of focusing on real news like this is disgraceful"?

And my point was relevant, you complained about something and then did exactly what you were complaining about by sharing those same news stories you didn't think were important enough to make the front page in the first place.

And for someone who claims not to be familiar with smugness you demonstrate an able ability to radiate it. That last sentence in particular is wonderfully patronising.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy discussing and argumenting, that is why I attend discussion forums, not to read what games someone bought. This happens to rarly at least on this forum and I enjoy any opinion and criticism. This is what makes it interesting and as this is only an Internet forum, it is by far too unimportant to make one really angry or happy on what people write.
It is fun.

My point in spelling out these three unimportant news was to give an example to an interested reader what the local top news of one day looked like. I could have written " there are three unimportant news topics before Syria, now lets talk about Syria" but this was actually not my intention.
Okay, without a ;-) you may not have gotten the irony of my thread title, but what good would it do to not explain which local stories move people here?
...and it is actually not complaining, I just found it interesting, wanted to share and read about the news headlines of other countries and the opinions on that like eg Knightdramon. Not only the news topics, but his opinion in them, as this I do not read in a google search, especially if in Greek.

This written, sure I know the English language to well enough formulate a sentence to meet the smell of smugness. So it worked and at least I got your attention now, as you are addressing me directly. I am at a loss why your first reply referred to me in the third person singular.

inflatable dalek
2013-05-18, 09:23 PM
This written, sure I know the English language to well enough formulate a sentence to meet the smell of smugness. So it worked and at least I got your attention now, as you are addressing me directly. I am at a loss why your first reply referred to me in the third person singular.


Hey? How was my first post in this thread not responding to you directly? What with quoting you and responding to points you made and all that? It certainly isn't any different from my last post in style.

And if you were being a patronising dick just for the sake of provoking a reaction, that's trolling. Don't do that.

Addl
2013-05-19, 12:45 AM
Sure as a reaction I purposely avoided addressing you with "you" in my first reply.

If you think this is too much patronizing, then so be it and yes it was done to provoke and lecture.

Anyway, thus is surely not the only and by far not the most important reason, as the more important one is the discussion that develops or develops from it.

The long quote and answer is too much hassle just to be trolling, but I guess you would know this. I at least enjoy it for discussions sake.