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inflatable dalek
2012-04-20, 12:50 PM
To be completely fair, I'm going to judge this on its own merits without any comparisons to G2, Another Time and Place, the UK G2 Annual, the fan club tat or any and all other previous post-Marvel stuff.

Well, the introduction from Furman where he lists his and Wildman's post-Transformers credits in a desperate attempt to make it look like they've done other things is hilarious and almost worth five stars by itself.

Other than that, mostly what the preview made it look. Lots of badly drawn pointless flashbacks (dear God, Fortress Maximus has a head that's the Transformers equivalent of the Elephant Man).

For the non-flashback stuff, I'm really not sure having Optimus bored and disinterested in the whole thing was a good idea. And considering I think they spoke about twice in the original series him picking Hot Rod as his special student (?! what do they do all day alone on top of a hill?) seems very odd. As does the mention of the Covenant of Primus.

Soundwave got the good bits, using Megatron's name and legacy to rally the "Neo Decepticons" felt very true to his UK best, and the no nonsense Goldeneye plan was nice and straightforward. It was also cool that his troops were mostly made of ones from towards the end of the Marvel days.

But, the ponderous (and unexplained) Furman spoofing narration dragged it down, Magnus is the IDW version, and I'm actually not entirely sure if that was the actual Last Autobot (in which case he's been on the Atkins diet since 80) or a badly made statue that got blown up at the end. If it is the later, why was he just standing in the middle of the street like that for no reason? It doesn't help those hypothetical new readers work out why his death might be a bad thing.

One odd thing, with the inclusion of stuff from the UK comic (the Baird transmitter is a bit of an odd callback isn't it?) it's surprising there's nothing including from it in the flashbacks. You'd have thought at least some of those events would have stuck in Mystery Voice Over's memory.

I wonder when Prime found out about what happened on the Ark?

The colouring is a bit odd, Prowl is in his Marvel scheme, Soundwave is purple in the flashback but blue in the present and Megatron has the black helmet throughout.

Oh, and the whole thing shamelessly recycled from Furman's Energon comic.

The real damning thing is, this dropped through the letter box at the same time as MTMTE 5. A comic that builds on Furman's groundwork (albeit without being set in the same Universe) in a much more solid, intelligent and enjoyable way. And Last Stand did the taking the piss out of Furmanisms thing better as well.

Terome
2012-04-20, 02:09 PM
What? This is out? Didn't we all agree it looked silly? The nerve of them to release it anyway!

inflatable dalek
2012-04-20, 02:16 PM
My copy turned up today, not sure if that's early for Free Comic Book Day or not. It might be the rest of the world is completely ignoring it.

I'm actually glad I've read it as it's exactly the right length to have a good laugh at the whole thing in the way that a proper issue wouldn't be (I think the crying would start around page 12). Despite initially having some morbid curiously in the first issue at least this has been properly sated here, and I will be safely occasionally illegally downloading in order to make mocking comments in threads ignoring the series as a whole.

Combat Colin blowing himself up is the canon end of the Marvel series.

Terome
2012-04-20, 02:45 PM
Despite initially having some morbid curiously in the first issue at least this has been properly sated here, and I will be safely occasionally illegally downloading in order to make mocking comments in threads ignoring the series as a whole.

Yeah, it was weird to discover that this comic was absolutely not aimed at me. I'm not sure, really, who it is aimed at. Ignoring Generation 2 and the UK stuff seems to preclude those who care about what happens in that universe, which I imagine is most of those who signed the petition, the 'retro stylings' preclude anyone who was wandered in from the movie house and the aping of parallel IDW themes seems to preclude those who are already reading. Hasbro seems to hate it and there's a weird and undefined sense of resentment underpinning the whole thing.

It's bizarre, it was it is. I mean, at least that awful Classics story had toys to shift. This has 'historical oddity' written all over it.

inflatable dalek
2012-04-20, 04:14 PM
It's including the UK stuff! Kup says "Wreckers"!.

One odd thing about the "Story so far" recap is it only covers the events of the comic, there's not a jot explaining how what seems to be a lot of the former Decepticons (last seen running away with Bludgeon) not only came back to Cybertron but successfully integrated back into society to the point where only a few malcontents are left stirring up trouble in such a minor way Optimus can't be bothered to leave the shag pad he's sharing with Hot Rod to go deal with them. Which is sort of a big thing.

relak
2012-04-21, 01:03 AM
Yeah, it was weird to discover that this comic was absolutely not aimed at me. I'm not sure, really, who it is aimed at. Ignoring Generation 2 and the UK stuff seems to preclude those who care about what happens in that universe, which I imagine is most of those who signed the petition, the 'retro stylings' preclude anyone who was wandered in from the movie house and the aping of parallel IDW themes seems to preclude those who are already reading. Hasbro seems to hate it and there's a weird and undefined sense of resentment underpinning the whole thing.

It's bizarre, it was it is. I mean, at least that awful Classics story had toys to shift. This has 'historical oddity' written all over it.

I can understand the underpinning resentment.

Furman did say that he hates to revisit old work

Maybe this was forced upon him after IDW saw how successful Larry Hama's continuation of G I Joe Real American Hero was

Cliffjumper
2012-04-21, 11:54 AM
Or maybe Furman's a lying sod sometimes, what with most of his recent work relying so much on recycling what he's already done.

inflatable dalek
2012-04-21, 12:20 PM
Furman was far keener on this than either IDW or Hasbro seem to have been to start with.

If Prime isn't bothering to make any effort to see anyone how is he effectively running the planet? Or if there are others making the day to day decisions why do Magnus and Kup need to take the long walk (which suggests Prime doesn't even have a phone) to ask his permission to send the Wreckers to go tell Soundwave he's a naughty boy?

Red Dave Prime
2012-04-21, 12:46 PM
Never a big reader of the Marvel series, this does seem like a baffling comic choice for IDW - providing a new ending to a series which, from my limited understanding has effectively had three (the big battle with unicron could have been the ending, then there was the actual ending with the last autobot thing and then Generation 2 looked to have capped off at least the gen 1 angle, even if it was left open)

I could be wrong on the above, I'm really only going on reading the reviews on this site.

Not sure who this is aimed at but it will be interesting to see its sales figures.

LKW
2012-04-22, 04:39 AM
Well, pretty much, it's aimed at me - someone who considers the G.I. Joe ARAH continuation among the top three books he's reading, and who has adopted Chris Claremont's X-Men Forever as his prefered X-Men continuity; and also, who freaked out, in the highly positive way, when he heard that Stephen Baskerville was actually coming back to ink this. (Dalek, I believe you now have a reprinting of what I consider to be a definitive proof of Basker's greatness, G.I. Joe #139. Anybody who wants to see what a difference an inker can make should check out the first several pages of this issue vs. the rest.)

And, yah, you got this a leeetle eariler than the rest of us (or, the US, at least); FCBD is May 5th :eek: Jealous (though spoiler-phobic), here; this book is the only reason I'll be making the Comic Book Day trip (albiet maybe to the newly-opened shop which is a little closer than my normal, pull list place).

relak
2012-04-22, 07:16 AM
Furman was far keener on this than either IDW or Hasbro seem to have been to start with.

If Prime isn't bothering to make any effort to see anyone how is he effectively running the planet? Or if there are others making the day to day decisions why do Magnus and Kup need to take the long walk (which suggests Prime doesn't even have a phone) to ask his permission to send the Wreckers to go tell Soundwave he's a naughty boy?

which i find baffling why he was so keen on it.

I sometimes get the feeling that he's not actually all "I do this as a creative art and thus as a creative person i refuse to go back and revist what i've done in the past and prefer to push forward".

I feels its more like "oh Thank God thats over, cos i had no idea where to go with it! Now to crack out some excuse and make some whole new story."

Skyquake87
2012-04-22, 07:28 AM
Or maybe Furman's a lying sod sometimes, what with most of his recent work relying so much on recycling what he's already done.

He's always recycled stuff...its perhaps not been as noticable since his return to Transformers, but take Death's Head for instance. Issue 10 ends with some completed artwork from the then in production issues 11 & 12 which were leading into what would eventually surface as 'The Body In Question'.

inflatable dalek
2012-04-22, 07:19 PM
And, yah, you got this a leeetle eariler than the rest of us (or, the US, at least); FCBD is May 5th :eek: Jealous (though spoiler-phobic), here; this book is the only reason I'll be making the Comic Book Day trip (albiet maybe to the newly-opened shop which is a little closer than my normal, pull list place).

Ah, if it's been sent out earlier than it should I'll edit the post mentioning where I brought it from in case it would get them into trouble. Though it shouldn't be so hard to work it out for those of you in the know.

Terome
2012-05-03, 11:59 PM
Is this a good cover? (http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/590822-regeneration-one-geoff-senior-cover.html)

I am not so sure if it is a good cover.

The composition is good from a purely geometric point of view, I think, but does it looked phoned-in to anyone else?

That's a Frank Miller Hand if I ever saw one. How is it bigger than Bludgeon's, which is much closer to the picture plane?

Good use of colour, though?

Skyquake87
2012-05-04, 08:36 AM
I've got to be honest, A lot of Geoff Senior's spot illustrations for comics over the last ten years (all mainly Transformers, natch) haven't been up to his previous standard. I think that's largely down to him working within advertising now and turning out quick, fast concept sketches and so on. Whilst his work still has that 'punch' and immedacy, you can tell he's been out of comics for a very long time. That said, i like that this is quite a dynamic image and has nice old-school colouring and its better than Wildman's 'Megatron On The Bog' cover.

Cliffjumper
2012-05-04, 12:58 PM
Yeh, have to concur. Punchy and dynamic in theory, but the linework is a bit colouring book. His BotCon, Titan cover and Armada work wasn't splendid either - conversely, I did like that Movie strip he did. Generally, though, I don't think he works well with digital colouring (neither does A"A"W).

But yeh, it's pretty obvious it's not a career path he's that interested in any more, which is a shame.

Mind, I've always liked the way Wildman seems to hang onto Furman's coat tails like some sort of sticky lemur, but if Geoff ever decided to back to TFs he's be straight out the airlock. "Okay, Andy Andrew, it's #75, the big culmination of the story we've been doing for the past whatever issues. It needs to be epic. So **** off and get me a sandwich, Geoff's doing it."

inflatable dalek
2012-05-04, 01:37 PM
I'm slightly reticent to comment after being chided as being the grumpy old fart of fandom at Transfans by someone who seems to have signed up especially to take issue with my 80.5 thoughts (aparently pointing out Furman's non TF work has been mostly crap isn't giving the man behind Ola the Heat Vampire due respect) but:

Yeah, close (and certainly the best Re-1 image yet) but no cigar. As well as the hand issue (with Wildman's cover having a similar problem is it Disproportionate Limbs Month at IDW?) could really do with an arm on the top right as well, Megatron maybe?

Edit: Does it feel more Lee Sullivan to anyone else?

Love the colouring though, that they're doing a UK style cover (every issue?) is a nice touch. I'll bet people buying digitally will be reworking it in photoshop to add the UK numbering.

As for Senior in general, liked the Movie stip and some of the Titan covers (Target 2006 was too dark and Space Pirates a mess). I think he mainly suffers from his best 80's work being so good it's hard to meet those expectations.

Terome
2012-05-04, 02:25 PM
I think that man on Transfans hates the internet? Or perhaps the very concept of mass communication? I was surprised that he services cars, because he wouldn't be out of place working as a politician.*


* Politics joke.

inflatable dalek
2012-05-04, 04:52 PM
It was one of those things that should have been easy to brush off and ignore but did get under my skin, fairly needlessly, because of the way he seemed unable to grasp the contradiction in moaning about moaning. The fact he was defending a comic he hadn't read didn't help either...

Apparently Jeff Anderson was all set to do a cover as well as an Auto Assembly exclusive (presumably for the July issue?) but Hasbro put the kibosh on it. Considering his style could probably be best described as "reliable" he'd probably have done the best job out of the three old guard at recapturing past form.

relak
2012-05-05, 04:52 PM
well, it doesnt look much different from his recent works in the "Allspark saga" movie prequel comic.

Except the coloring makes it look all the more cartoony here.

I wish he'd use his G2 style though.

relak
2012-05-05, 04:55 PM
just got it and read it.

I really dont see whats the problem with the narration though other than over repeating "Witness....."

I like how Wildman recreated a number of key scenes from the original comic.

As to why the last autobot is standing on a pedestal in the middle of the city......maybe he has to be there in order to maintain the regeneration of Cybertron. Kinda like a terraforming machine. As long as he remains, he is using his power to heal cybertron.
But now that he gets blown up (which IMO was shocking yet retarded once you think about it. Wasnt he supposed to be some legendary all powerful being like Primus??) cybertron's healing stops and perhaps will start to degenerate again.

Hence the state of disrepair we see on cybertron in the 5 page preview of regeneration 81

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-05-06, 02:33 PM
Furman was far keener on this than either IDW or Hasbro seem to have been to start with.

IMHO I think the reason that IDW didn't want to do it was because they didn't want to cancel the Costa-written series and wanted to combine all the previous mini-series and one-shots into on big series and have a big legacy number event (remember that TDoOP was orginally going to be The Transformers #125) and probably had this series not come about Roberts would have written it with the same storyline as MTMTE just continuing the series (as #126 and beyond) and Barber would have gotten a spin-off series.

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-05-06, 02:49 PM
I wish he'd use his G2 style though.

When I was a kid I hated his work in the orginal US series, but I loved his work on G2 though. I wished that he had taken over the series, instead of Manny Galan (or whatever his name was), when Yanger couldn't make a deadline for that series to save his life.

relak
2012-05-07, 01:18 AM
IMHO I think the reason that IDW didn't want to do it was because they didn't want to cancel the Costa-written series and wanted to combine all the previous mini-series and one-shots into on big series and have a big legacy number event (remember that TDoOP was orginally going to be The Transformers #125) and probably had this series not come about Roberts would have written it with the same storyline as MTMTE just continuing the series (as #126 and beyond) and Barber would have gotten a spin-off series.

But REgeneration is not connected to IDW's timeline at all

relak
2012-05-07, 01:23 AM
When I was a kid I hated his work in the orginal US series, but I loved his work on G2 though. I wished that he had taken over the series, instead of Manny Galan (or whatever his name was), when Yanger couldn't make a deadline for that series to save his life.

You and me both. Although i wished it was Senor doing the art from the get go.

I wonder if he'll be doing any issues of Regeneration.
Or is that exclusively a Furman/Wildman thing?

Terome
2012-05-08, 12:10 AM
Didn't manage to snag one of these on Saturday - I was drawing stuff at Gosh all day and by the time I popped my head around the door of Orbital the party was well past over. I did get a look at the Roger Langridge exhibition though, which made up for everything.

So anyway, now that I have insinuated a read, my report is that it made me feel nice. You know, like, inside.

I got a kick out of Wildman drawing some of the old panels, I got a kick out of Soundwave being a proper Soundwave and I got a kick out of Kup's line about wanting to be able to fly. Extra, semi-kicks too for making fun of a Furmanism and then going and using a Furmanism on the very next page.

So good work, Regeneration 80.5. Good work.

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-05-10, 10:50 PM
But REgeneration is not connected to IDW's timeline at all

It's about the name of the series not the universe.

Marvel's series was called The Transformers so was the Costa series. I do not know of any company past or present that has published two different series with the same name with two different numbering systems at the same time.

Now if Furman had wanted to do a continuation of The Transformers: Generation 2 chances are IDW would have been more opened to it, since they could have lauched The Transformers: Generation 2 #12.5 with little or no problem and not have to cancel another series with the same name with a different number.

Red Dave Prime
2012-05-10, 11:04 PM
Am I the only person a little confused?

relak
2012-05-11, 06:12 AM
It's about the name of the series not the universe.

Marvel's series was called The Transformers so was the Costa series. I do not know of any company past or present that has published two different series with the same name with two different numbering systems at the same time.

Now if Furman had wanted to do a continuation of The Transformers: Generation 2 chances are IDW would have been more opened to it, since they could have lauched The Transformers: Generation 2 #12.5 with little or no problem and not have to cancel another series with the same name with a different number.

I thought its now "Classic Transformers"?

Ulcrain
2012-05-11, 06:31 AM
I thought its now "Classic Transformers"?

No, that would be the Fun Pub continuatoin. SG Ultra Magnes blew it up in this years Botcon comic.

relak
2012-05-11, 09:09 AM
No, that would be the Fun Pub continuatoin. SG Ultra Magnes blew it up in this years Botcon comic.

ok. mah bad.

Transformers Classics then
http://www.amazon.com/Transformers-Classics-Volume-1-TP/dp/1600109357/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336727166&sr=8-1

Thats what IDW has repranded the Marvel series.

THe regeration sub-title would have made a lot more sense if IDW rebranded the MArvel series "Generation One" (but i think thats already taken by Dreamwave) or perhaps left it as their original release sub-title "Generations"

inflatable dalek
2012-05-11, 11:30 AM
I think Cyberstrike is a bit confused, all three ongoing books have different titles to one another (More Than Meets the Eye, Robots in Disguise and Regeneration One), there is no longer a book called just Transformers. There's no indication whatsoever that the existence of this book has had any effect on the content of the other two (indeed, IDW seem happy for it to plough a similar post war-uneasy peace furrow to RID with no problems).

Regeneration One is a terrible pun, and as such I like it. The obvious thing for a "Continuation" of the Marvel series to do would have been to use the tagline on the early covers as a subtitle, unfortunately More Than Meets the Eye was taken. I guess just calling it Generation One wasn't a goer as, officially at least, all three books are G1. Just in two different G1 continuities.

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-05-11, 09:45 PM
I think Cyberstrike is a bit confused, all three ongoing books have different titles to one another (More Than Meets the Eye, Robots in Disguise and Regeneration One), there is no longer a book called just Transformers. There's no indication whatsoever that the existence of this book has had any effect on the content of the other two (indeed, IDW seem happy for it to plough a similar post war-uneasy peace furrow to RID with no problems).

Regeneration One is a terrible pun, and as such I like it. The obvious thing for a "Continuation" of the Marvel series to do would have been to use the tagline on the early covers as a subtitle, unfortunately More Than Meets the Eye was taken. I guess just calling it Generation One wasn't a goer as, officially at least, all three books are G1. Just in two different G1 continuities.

It's hard to explain.
The Marvel series was called The Transformers and so was the IDW series written by Mike Costa, my guess is that IDW thought that was going to be the title of what became known as The Transformers: Regeneration One. There was no indication (to me at least) that #125/The Death of Optimus Prime was going to be the last issue of that series they seemed to be the idea that it would continue on with a new creative team and continue with the "new" legacy numbering.

I may be wrong but because Marvel does this all the time with several of their titles like The Fantastic Four, X-Factor, and Iron Man just to name a few, and IDW and John Byrne played around with the number of the continuation of Next Men it seemed like that was what IDW was planning to do.

Skyquake87
2012-05-11, 11:23 PM
IDWs plans seem to have extended to introducing two ongoing series with the conclusion of the 'Chaos' storyline. That was put in motion by Andy Schmidt.

The #125 thing was the 125th consecutive issue of Transformers that IDW have published and was a coda to the Chaos thing.

It does very much smack of Marvel's current insane numbering policy which seems to depend these days on which way the wind is blowing. Historically, US comics back in the 1930s - 1950s struggled to get rack space if they were new titles to the market (i.e. #1) and so used to use a random high humber to 'trick' the market into thinking the title was much more established than it was to generate sales. As we moved into the '60s and beyond the reverse was true and a #1 was guaranteed boost to sales for a title as it represented a convenient jumping on point for new readers.

Marvel seem to use this to herald a new direction to pick up casual readers, but honestly, I don't think attracting new readers is generally dictated by the number on the cover - it seems to me to be more word of mouth and recommendation that gets people onboard.

Personally, I find the numbering changing messy and annoying. Plus it gives Marvel's Irving Forbush Deadpool an excuse to churn out laborious 'joke' numbering. hooray... :sick:

relak
2012-05-14, 08:10 AM
Marvel seem to use this to herald a new direction to pick up casual readers, but honestly, I don't think attracting new readers is generally dictated by the number on the cover - it seems to me to be more word of mouth and recommendation that gets people onboard.
:

Tell THAT to the HUGE boost in sales DC's 52 relaunch has gotten.
Not as if all 52 of them are award winner standard but people just snap them up JUST BECAUSE of the number on the cover.

Skyquake87
2012-05-14, 09:15 AM
Fair point :)

relak
2012-05-15, 02:24 AM
from what i gather, most of the younger buyers who cashed in on the new 52 are wannabe profiteers who hope that 30 years down the road, Actioncomics #1 will be worth 1.5 million bucks.

Sadly thats one main reason why younger buy buyers still get singles. For the speculating collector's market.

Too bad they have no idea how it works.
I'm sure by now DC has over printed so much of the new 52 #1s that there aint no chance for the value to ever go past retail price.

It's got to be a sleeper hit. Something very little people buy.

Skyquake87
2012-05-15, 06:58 AM
Since the interweb made everything available to everyone, the back issue market has crashed. Certainly anything post 1970 is pretty much worthless. I notice Forbidden Planet has completely given up with Back Issues (do they sell these to Silver Acre or someone, I wonder..?) and my local comic shop sells all back issues for 50p.

I was at Thought Bubble a few years back and was genuinely surprised to see previously thought valuable modern comics like McFarlane's Spider-Man # 1, Jim Lee's X-Men #1 and the Image 'mega-sellers' of the day available for around the £1 mark.

You could probably trace that back to the creation of the Direct Market and the establishment of comic shops which ensured old copies of comics were kept and preserved rather than thrown away, which is arguably why a lot of Golden and Silver age stuff is still worth a fair bit.

Anyone buying a comic today and hoping it to be worth anything in the future is on a fools errand.

Interesting aside; In the UK Panini publish these 'Collector's Edition' newsstand comics that collect 3 US comics for what you'd expect to pay for a single US issue. These things have their time on the stands and then are gone (i think they are sold on the sames terms as magazines- i.e. sale or return and panini don't do back issues so i figure they get recycled). They're not really worth much, being simple reprints, but since the Avengers film came out, auctions for #1 & 2 of the Panini Avengers Assemble comic have been hitting the £20 mark whilst the equivalent US issues are available for a little above their original release price.

relak
2012-05-15, 08:18 AM
IMO nowadays those huge price jumps in single issue comics comes down to crazy rich buyers and lucky sellers.

True story: I was (and still am) trying to unload my badly reprinted IDW reprints of TF Armada, Energon and War Within. Suddenly i get an email from
Someone who has the entire Dreamwave Transformers series EXCEPT Micromasters #3 and was willing to pay $50 bucks for it. (he apparently posted on the now defunct Singapore TF fan forum)

Crazy completists. Micromasters wasnt even much good but ya.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent there.
Question about regeneration 80.5: Who's that semi-robotic dude cyborg whatever on the first page just above the "Counterpoint" title and next to gRimlock???

Cliffjumper
2012-05-15, 01:00 PM
Re: single sales, I think both the wider range of trades avaliable (companies aren't just issuing new material, but less famous older material as well) and scans being more widespread and of better quality is a factor. And also ebay too.

Back when I was collecting them properly, which was probably only ten years or so ago, the only way to read - say - Age of Apocalypse was via singles. If the only place I could find, say, X-Men Alpha was my comic store and they decreed it to be worth £10 or whatever, I'd have to pay £10 for that issue. Nowadays you can go on ebay - especially in a country like the UK which has a very small number of specialist stores - and get a much better price, or go find scans somewhere, or avoid the hassle and pick up TPBs.

There're always going to be people who collect singles, especially for something like 52 (which appeals to all the people who've bought all the Batman comics, all the Superman comics et cetera), but sales/value of older issues in general have certainly suffered from them no longer being the only option.

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-05-16, 07:50 PM
There're always going to be people who collect singles, especially for something like 52 (which appeals to all the people who've bought all the Batman comics, all the Superman comics et cetera), but sales/value of older issues in general have certainly suffered from them no longer being the only option.

I've met people online who still buy books like The Amazing Spider-Man for example for decades and haven't read an issue of it for at least 10 years. They say it's too keep their runs complete.

Grayfox
2012-07-10, 11:18 AM
http://www.seibertron.com/news/view.php?id=25282

inflatable dalek
2012-07-10, 02:12 PM
Despite some dodgy bits that actually reads better than 80.5 did. The holodeck stuff was obvious, tired and dull and head in the sand Prime is something I don't find remotely interesting but there's more pace and omph to it, the art is much better and the focus seems to be on the actually interesting Soundwave stuff.

And considering I was all ready to mock Furman for the promised new Wreckes being a cash in on Last Stand it was nice to see that only applied to Kup. Did he and Springer ever even speak before in any of the Marvel Stuff?

Warcry
2012-07-10, 04:19 PM
Maybe in some of the UK future stories. Wasn't he part of Team Rodimus then instead of running around with the Wreckers, then? But since Furman has disavowed the UK books and G2, I think this was Springer's first appearance in this pruned-down timeline.

The preview was pretty dull, I thought, since the main points that it hits on -- Wreckers, keeping the peace on Cybertron and Magnus being a stick in the mud -- have all been done in the last two years worth of main-line IDW books. There's nothing new here, no hook to pull me in or capture my interest. It's really not done much to convince me to buy the series.

Cliffjumper
2012-07-10, 04:30 PM
I think Springer only possibly spoke to Kup in the TF:TM mini or maybe Big Broadcast - Springer was nearly entirely 'present day' in TFUK; Peace and IIRC a helicopter mode cameo in the Legacy spread (?) being the only exceptions that leap to mind. They're in the same issues of Time Wars, but of course Springer and Carnivac get dropped the second the Primes turn up.

inflatable dalek
2012-07-10, 05:57 PM
The preview was pretty dull, I thought, since the main points that it hits on -- Wreckers, keeping the peace on Cybertron and Magnus being a stick in the mud -- have all been done in the last two years worth of main-line IDW books. There's nothing new here, no hook to pull me in or capture my interest. It's really not done much to convince me to buy the series.

Yeah, I think that's a fair summing up.

With the ignoring of the UK stuff and the idea seemingly being that there's been no Decepticon activity in the last two decades I have to wonder what Galvatron has done to be one of the big bad three.

As far as anyone still around knows he's a minor stranger who attacked a base once before helping to inspire the attack against Unicron. "You bastard! Leading a brave one man attack on the devil and showing us what we needed to do! For this evil I will play kill you all day!. Just from the US issues, would any of the non-dead/missing characters even know his name?

Denyer
2012-07-10, 07:01 PM
It's more likeable than the non-Roberts IDW book. Still not very fussed, though.

relak
2012-07-11, 05:48 AM
drokk it!! my comic shop didnt get the Geoff Senor variant........

Red Dave Prime
2012-07-11, 11:49 AM
It's more likeable than the non-Roberts IDW book. Still not very fussed, though.

Certainly a very samey set-up. Not really sure why they couldnt have taken a different angle on it. Anyway, as someone who never really got into the marvel stories I'm not bothered but it doesn't read too bad. The art looks quite nice in a retro way. I'll skip but if it does well it will probably mean a return of Furman to one of the main books.

Terome
2012-07-11, 09:40 PM
I have now read it.

Despite the cribbing from IDW, (though rewarming the plot from Stormbringer is certainly what the world needs in these troubled times) I thought that they got Kup right, liked the idea of an Optimus Prime at the very end of his tether while turning Hot Rod into some kind of Hare Krishna burnout and the image of Soundwave sitting around with nothing to do in his bedroom. The set-up promised by the ending is kind of interesting on its own terms, though it's hard not to compare it to Generation 2 and to find it comes up a bit short.

There's a commentary up on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.359440860792781.77996.146805978722938&type=3) that has the fine distinction of Andrew Wildman chucking 'seriously WTF is RacknRuin' in a way which suggests that drawing this series might be physically painful for him.

I can empathise with him: Those faction symbols are driving me up the goddamn wall.

relak
2012-07-12, 01:11 AM
flipped through it at the comic shop.

Is it just me or does the art look a little wonky in places.

Arms are wayyy to short at times (the first full body shot of Springer for example) and heads look out of proportion to the bodies.

Anyone managed to grab the Senor variant?

relak
2012-07-15, 12:12 AM
Ok am i the only on that is officially pissed off at Regeneration 81?

Furman is doing his old thing again with LOTS of foreshadowing about future plot elements.

-Yes the first half reads like the current Robots in Disguise
-I was hoping for more on the Last Autobot. No one tried to put him back together or find out who blew him up??? I hope future issues deal with the immediate aftermath.
- Not quite liking the art, but i think its more the colors. Wildman's faces look too long and Springers arms look too short but then again looking back at the Marvel issues, those problems were always there. I would have prefered if they went for a more classic color style like Guido Guidi's cover.


Also, is Generation 2 AND G.I Joe officially tossed out the window?


It is nice to see him reusing a few of the old marvel Tf characters, like the Space carnival.
I see the furmanisms back.
It's just me but i liked the mopey Optimus. It's well explained and i believe his deaths have had a permanent effect on him somewhat.
OR, perhaps it could have been something from Hi-Q???

*SPOILERS AHEAD*
I can see the stormbringer reference with the thundersing pretender shell mold. But why? in Marvel, Thunderwing was just a normal pretender!

Terome
2012-07-15, 12:11 PM
Ok am i the only on that is officially pissed off at Regeneration 81?

I'm not sure if I have enough emotional investment to be angry at this comic for any reason. It's long been projected exactly where its levels of creativity and craftmanship will sit, so with that accepted there's not much to do but to point out some of the pleasant surprises and indulge in some nitpicking. Anger doesn't come anywhere near that process.

relak
2012-07-16, 05:26 AM
I'm not sure if I have enough emotional investment to be angry at this comic for any reason. It's long been projected exactly where its levels of creativity and craftmanship will sit, so with that accepted there's not much to do but to point out some of the pleasant surprises and indulge in some nitpicking. Anger doesn't come anywhere near that process.

I mean in the way it seemingly tosses out G I Joe and Generation 2.

Unless theres this big magic reset button to restore all life on earth near the end of the run.

Also another nitpick at IDW
Why couldnt they have pushed out the "Transformers Classics" reprints a little faster such that the last volume gets released in time to coincide with Regeneration?

It makes a heck more marketing sense right?
And it would have been feasable too. If there were going to be 8 volumes, they could have released the remaining 5 vols bi-monthly from May till now.

It's not as if they have to source for anything new since they already reprinted those issues before. It's just a matter of commisioning new cover art.

Instead what they did was publish this 100 page special which nobody bought cos everyone with a shred of interest in the Marvel US series has either the titan tpbs or waiting for the Classics to finish its run.

inflatable dalek
2012-07-16, 03:57 PM
Furman did say beforehand though that, though they'll be tips of the hat/shameless rehashing [delete according to preference] the UK and G2 stuff wouldn't be "canon" for this book.

That's not how I'd have done it (and are there really more people out there who got the Berko thing than have read Target: 2006?), if nothing else it would have been more fun and go all out nuts trying to include everything and give the hyperthetical casual readers the intelligence to work it out for themselves. Sort of the Grant Morrison on Batman "Everything ever happened!" approach.

I'm not sure if I have enough emotional investment to be angry at this comic for any reason. It's long been projected exactly where its levels of creativity and craftmanship will sit, so with that accepted there's not much to do but to point out some of the pleasant surprises and indulge in some nitpicking. Anger doesn't come anywhere near that process.

Yeah, pretty much my thinking. Now I've the capacity to buy and read digital comics on my AWESOME new phone the cost of each issue is now enough to make comics in general disposable income for me again (especially as there's no postage involved), not everyone I buy has to be worth keeping forever now but can be a bit of throwaway fluff to be read in five minutes on my break. And I for one welcome our new digital overlords and hope they drive a stake through the heart of (most) British comic shops.

It's a decidedly average issue all in all, but I'll be following for the same reasons as you.

Stuff I liked: Soundwave (along with Ratchet the character Furman has written most consistently well across the decades); Berko (could have so easily been an easy cheap shot at an unloved part of the run but he was played straight and made it feel more like a celebration of the entire US book silliness and all); and the Guido cover.

Everything else was raning from Mmmm to Guuugh.

Terome
2012-07-17, 03:35 PM
Furman did say beforehand though that, though they'll be tips of the hat/shameless rehashing [delete according to preference] the UK and G2 stuff wouldn't be "canon" for this book.

That's not how I'd have done it (and are there really more people out there who got the Berko thing than have read Target: 2006?), if nothing else it would have been more fun and go all out nuts trying to include everything and give the hyperthetical casual readers the intelligence to work it out for themselves. Sort of the Grant Morrison on Batman "Everything ever happened!" approach.


Yeah, that sounds like the sort of thing I was hoping for. My fondest wish would have been for something that resembled Bongo's Radioactive Man comics, where decades of loosely-sketched history are insinuated between each issue. Kicking in at Marvel G1 #332 (which, pleasingly, would be the issue that the US series would be at if it had come out this August, I think) could have had call-backs and follow-ups to plotlines laid down throughout a comic that ploughed on through the Beast Era, quizzed over Robots In Disguise, skitted around the Unicron Trilogy and then picked up a thing or two from the Bay movies. I think that is a critical mass of bizarrity that I would enjoy.
Of course there are very good reasons not to publish a comic resembling anything like that, so I'll settle instead for imagining it while spacing out on public transport while in the world outside my head, faint praise is doled out for remembering that the Skyscorchers exist.*

* I had no idea that the Skyscorchers existed before reading this issue.

inflatable dalek
2012-07-17, 07:17 PM
Marvel 333 surely?


Considering the generally solid work IDW are doing on the other two books of tying disparate loose continuity threads together in an interesting way whilst still doing their own thing I really don't think it would have been that hard to at least include the UK stuff, maybe even G2.

And I think it would have been less confusing, if a standalone piece is what they wanted/had to do, just to not include all the nods and homages. Because the majority of readers aren't going to be checking up on interviews and blogs for the exact chronology. It'd save them a lot of "Why is Rack'N'Ruin alive?" style questions anyway.

Terome
2012-07-17, 08:01 PM
If you'd been in charge, how'd you have set the continuity and such, Dalek?

inflatable dalek
2012-07-17, 08:18 PM
Easiest:

Include the entire American and British series. Not in an "Give a three hour lecture about Earthforce placement" sense though. Just a general not going out of its way to contradict anything it doesn't have to (Another Time and Place, just being vague about Earthforce placement). For this issue to work in with the UK stuff all it would actually need to do is change some of the Wreckers and Insecticons for non dead ones (or put in a line about how the Last Autobot brought as many fallen Transformers back as possible before he blew up).


Other than that, it would not only pretty much work, it would actually make more sense of Galvatron being seen as an epic threat that everyone is seen being shit scared of.

Other than that, the only BIG lose end from the UK stuff (other than maybe a quick line about, say, Irwin Spoon or whatever) is the long promised Ultra Magnus/Galvatron final fight. I will bet now they'll be some sort of smackdown between the two of them before the end, so imagine how much more powerful that would be with the proper history behind it. Plus, it would mean Magnus being written properly (UK Ultra Magnus would have gone in with the Wreckers, whilst the IDW version- which we're getting here- would never have risked his mission to get involved with Deadly Games).

Mind, as this isn't the same Galvatron it'd only be a big moment for Magnus. But nothing's perfect.

The really hard insane option:

Include G2 as well. Set in on a Cybertron where everyone has come back post the final battle leaving a seemingly slowing rebuilding Earth behind. Have Megatron supposedly off looking into the Liege Maximo. Then the cliffhanger is "So he actually went back to Earth and took over wrecking everything else!". Substitute characters and designs as appropriate (Buster for Spike and so on) and build up to the Liege as the new threat rather than Unicron again (though I'm kind of hoping that's a bluff and Prime is just mad).

Either way, don't have Prime all upset at his death unless you're also going to retcon it so he's equally haunted by dreams of a giant floopy disc. And just call it issue 1 of Regeneration One. As is, presenting it as issue 80 pitches it as a somewhat different book to the many years later trying as hard as possible to be standalone tone it actually is.

And treat the audience as intelligent. The Marvel stuff is out there, and has been out there for years. Trust that people will get a reference to Flame or whatever as just being something from a comic they might not have read without their heads exploding and going "WHAT IS THISSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!".

Red Dave Prime
2012-07-18, 06:11 PM
I am now slightly interested in this after my local forbidden planet dropped the 100 page special featuring the previous 5 (76-80)issues in with my usual pre-orders. I was going to pass but thought I'd give it a whirl. I was suprised how fast paced and quirky it was. The wildly off-beat cast was also a plus. The art is very different to what I think of for Transformers but not in a bad way.

So, my plan is to follow this through downloading cbrs for the moment and if I'm still reading three issues in I'll either try and pick up the singles or get the inevitable TPB (I'm guessing that there will be 3 of them to cover the run)

Anyway, now that my toe is in the marvel universe - any recommendations for good issues to look back on?

Terome
2012-07-18, 06:30 PM
And treat the audience as intelligent. The Marvel stuff is out there, and has been out there for years. Trust that people will get a reference to Flame or whatever as just being something from a comic they might not have read without their heads exploding and going "WHAT IS THISSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!".

As always, I find myself wondering how much of all this was editorial insistence vs. Furman second-guessing himself.

Other than that, the only BIG lose end from the UK stuff (other than maybe a quick line about, say, Irwin Spoon or whatever) is the long promised Ultra Magnus/Galvatron final fight. I will bet now they'll be some sort of smackdown between the two of them before the end, so imagine how much more powerful that would be with the proper history behind it.

They totally are going to build to that, aren't they? And it will be awkward and pointless and have a homage to that Geoff Senior panel that won't quite work.

Include G2 as well. Set in on a Cybertron where everyone has come back post the final battle leaving a seemingly slowing rebuilding Earth behind. Have Megatron supposedly off looking into the Liege Maximo. Then the cliffhanger is "So he actually went back to Earth and took over wrecking everything else!". Substitute characters and designs as appropriate (Buster for Spike and so on) and build up to the Liege as the new threat rather than Unicron again (though I'm kind of hoping that's a bluff and Prime is just mad).

That works out pretty well - and would actually be a bit more shocking to have Megatron go from being a loveable scamp in G2 to Earth-destroying nutter. As it is, U.S. Marvel Megatron is a nobody who has been given a Badassness Upgrade on the strength of his depiction in other continuities. Would have made much more sense to have Galvatron sitting on that loo, now that I think about it.

Anyway, now that my toe is in the marvel universe - any recommendations for good issues to look back on?

Couldn't hurt to look into Warrior School for the Ratchet/Megatron rivalry and the UK's Dinobot Hunt for the Good Soundwave. Both have been reprinted recently and shouldn't be hard to find.

inflatable dalek
2012-07-18, 07:39 PM
As always, I find myself wondering how much of all this was editorial insistence vs. Furman second-guessing himself.

The editorial team and Hasbro both were apparently not very keen on the idea, to the point you have to wonder why they're bothering.



They totally are going to build to that, aren't they? And it will be awkward and pointless and have a homage to that Geoff Senior panel that won't quite work.

Otherwise it would actually be pretty pointless having Magnus with his silly shades in the book.

And sure, he's not UK Magnus so there's no reason he can't have a different personality. But I think it's telling that MTMTE has taken "Space Policeman" Magnus and turned him into a complete out and out comedy character. Because he was rubbish. Most of the thinking behind him was flawed (the Decepcticons are happily invading planets willy nilly, would they really agree with the Autobots enough about what constitutes SPACE CRIME to form an agreement? If Magnus stands apart from both sides why is he still a badge wearing Autobot?) and the way he would stand in front of heavily armed psychopaths and deliver his full lengthy catchphrase every single time in order to give them enough time to attack him first/run off was deeply silly. It's only a short step from that to OCD loon.



That works out pretty well - and would actually be a bit more shocking to have Megatron go from being a loveable scamp in G2 to Earth-destroying nutter. As it is, U.S. Marvel Megatron is a nobody who has been given a Badassness Upgrade on the strength of his depiction in other continuities. Would have made much more sense to have Galvatron sitting on that loo, now that I think about it.

It would have been funny to have Scorponok as Kup's third hologram Decepticon, with Springer being all "Yeah, you know that's not really PC now right?".

Of course, following on from G2 and doing the Liege would be super fanwank. But this should be the super fanwank book. It should be swallowing hard all that salty goodness.

And sure, after the best part of two decades the chances are good there's nothing that could be done with Maximo that wouldn't wind up "Meh". But what are the odds of Unicron round 50000 being anything else? Especially with the likelihood of it tying into the 13 and the idea of every Unicron being the same Unicron even though that doesn't gel with the Marvel version's claim in Eye of the Storm that the Rhythm boy was an alternate he only might become. BLEUUURG.

To tangent slightly, but is it me, or is Senior the only artist who has ever managed to draw full body Unicron in a way that actually looks cool?

Auntie Slag
2012-07-18, 09:04 PM
I liked Magnus when he was just flat out up for a scrap i.e. getting whupped by Galvatron but always having another go (two more goes). And he was honest about it, either sticking up for a girl or because somebody had to stop Galvatron (and Smokescreen had slipped up on a banana so he was unavailable).

And isn't Magnus Cybertron's greatest warrior? Even more better than Octopus Prime?

Remember the pride you felt as a kid to see Magnus, Prime and the Wreckers wading into that Decepticon fuel depot all guns blazing, hacking down those viciously unarmed workers? And then slapping Megatron about a bit and taking his milk money? And then the big pissup they had back at H.Q.?

Great days. Lets have a bit of that back, why is it only Grimlock whose allowed to hit things?

relak
2012-07-19, 11:13 AM
Kicking in at Marvel G1 #332 (which, pleasingly, would be the issue that the US series would be at if it had come out this August, I think) could have had call-backs and follow-ups to plotlines laid down throughout a comic that ploughed on through the Beast Era, quizzed over Robots In Disguise, skitted around the Unicron Trilogy and then picked up a thing or two from the Bay movies. I think that is a critical mass of bizarrity that I would enjoy.
Of course there are very good reasons not to publish a comic resembling anything like that, so I'll settle instead for imagining it while spacing out on public transport while in the world outside my head, faint praise is doled out for remembering that the Skyscorchers exist.*
Sounds like something more in line with what TF Collectors club might publish

Include G2 as well. Set in on a Cybertron where everyone has come back post the final battle leaving a seemingly slowing rebuilding Earth behind. Have Megatron supposedly off looking into the Liege Maximo. Then the cliffhanger is "So he actually went back to Earth and took over wrecking everything else!". Substitute characters and designs as appropriate (Buster for Spike and so on) and build up to the Liege as the new threat rather than Unicron again (though I'm kind of hoping that's a bluff and Prime is just mad).
Dalek, please please please write that comic.
IDW! Hire this guy!

I'd like the plot thread of Megatron. And it does make a lot more sense that post G2 earth can be easily annihilated by 1 lone decepticon. Twas bombarded almost to hell anyway, so doesnt take much to drag it all the way.

The editorial team and Hasbro both were apparently not very keen on the idea, to the point you have to wonder why they're bothering.
Maybe they saw the excellent fan reception of Larry Hama's G I Joe RAH continuation and decided to follow that trend with Transformers?

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-07-19, 06:46 PM
Maybe they saw the excellent fan reception of Larry Hama's G I Joe RAH continuation and decided to follow that trend with Transformers?

I don't think so.

It was Furman blogging that he still ideas for a "proper" conclusion to Marvel US/UK series and getting fans to sign an online petition, tweeting Chris Rydall constantly and annoying IDW on their message boards, and facebook.

relak
2012-07-21, 02:43 PM
I don't think so.

It was Furman blogging that he still ideas for a "proper" conclusion to Marvel US/UK series and getting fans to sign an online petition, tweeting Chris Rydall constantly and annoying IDW on their message boards, and facebook.

hmm, ok. But im sure Larry Hama didnt do that...........

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-07-21, 09:22 PM
hmm, ok. But im sure Larry Hama didnt do that...........

I think IDW wanted to get Joe fans on their side and they KNEW that the DDP continuation of the Marvel series was extremely unpopular with the majority of fans and knew Hama was still interested in it. The only problem was Hama forgot his own continuty (and/or didn't bother to re-read the Marvel series) when he brought a character back, who was dead and didn't bother to explain how this character came back to life. When fans pointed out this error Hama blasted them on facebook and/or twitter.

Denyer
2012-07-22, 04:12 PM
to the point you have to wonder why they're bothering.
Did I miss a petition with wildly more signatures than the average sales of a title, all solemnly pinky-promising to pick this up? Wouldn't be terribly surprised if it gets cut short, based on having seen the first issue.

No real issues with ignoring UK material, but if Furman wants to pretend G2 didn't happen he needs to come up with something better than it.

inflatable dalek
2012-07-22, 06:04 PM
Yeah, there was a petition, I'm not sure how many people signed it though. On the more recent sales figures list the RAH continuation was IDW's worst selling Joe book, so it'll be interesting to see how long that can continue for.

relak
2012-07-23, 02:06 AM
Yeah, there was a petition, I'm not sure how many people signed it though. On the more recent sales figures list the RAH continuation was IDW's worst selling Joe book, so it'll be interesting to see how long that can continue for.

I dunno about worst selling but from what i've heard, even the RAH fans from way back are getting tired of it.

I read it and kinda hoped it would tie up loose ends. Instead it ends up opening new plot threads.

In the bookstore, the fact that its the same artist who worked on the first 2 books of Chuck Dixon's G I Joe series continually confuses potential buyers.

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-07-24, 10:31 PM
Yeah, there was a petition, I'm not sure how many people signed it though. On the more recent sales figures list the RAH continuation was IDW's worst selling Joe book, so it'll be interesting to see how long that can continue for.

Before the announcement the last time I saw it in the range was about 2500-3000. Which if I understood Diamond's policy a book has to get at least 5000 orders to be in their catalog although I suspect they let that they relax that rule for their "Premiere Publishers" (Dark Horse, DC, Image, IDW, and Marvel).

Red Dave Prime
2012-08-02, 02:02 AM
So, picked this up and didnt see a thread so Voila!

I enjoyed it to be honest. Megatron as a mad hatter controlling a zombie army is a fun continuation (and quite removed from IDWs ongoing version of Megatron)
Seems he may be looking to get one final showdown with Optimus - no harm in that given the nature of this comic.

One thing I dont like is the grimlock speech pattern. Seems it was always part of the marvel comics but I hate it myself.

Nothing jaw-dropping here but a fun read all the same. Question for all the marvel die-hards - has Magnus always been the uptight, plays by the rules characters in all the fictions? I had thought he was more cavalier in the Marvel universe compared to his IDW version.

zigzagger
2012-08-02, 03:39 AM
Question for all the marvel die-hards - has Magnus always been the uptight, plays by the rules characters in all the fictions? I had thought he was more cavalier in the Marvel universe compared to his IDW version.

More of the cavalier, yeah. The occasional lone solider maybe, but never the uptight, officious, bureaucratic, space-cop. This Magnus is definitely IDW Magnus.

And now that I'm thinking about it, Dreamwave's Magnus sort of came off as the former, too -- until Furman started writing him, that is. Unless I'm not remembering correctly, which is entirely possible as it's been an awfully long time since I've read any of the DW stuff.

zigzagger
2012-08-02, 05:49 AM
I'm sorry, I'm having hard time finding anything to say about this series, good or bad.

To be honest, I wasn't all that excited about the Marvel stuff being revisited, in spite of it holding a special place in my heart. Wasn't opposed to it, just not excited.

I suppose it's because I was content with the two (possibly three) endings we got. But, horses for courses...

Kup's all right, though.

I am a little conflicted about undoing Ratchet and, quite possibly, Scorponok's* heroic sacrifices. Not angry, just conflicted.

(* - Could very much be a red herring - the uncovered Zarak files does seem a bit too obvious - but it might turn out to be him. Can't think of anyone else who has green, spindly legs like that.)

inflatable dalek
2012-08-02, 01:35 PM
After thinking the art was fairly solid (if not exactly rocking my socks) last issue it's absolutely abysmal here. Megatron has one of the simplest character models of any Transformer, how can it be possible for anyone to get his chest that wrong? Trailbreaker looked mighty odd as well.

Otherwise it was a mixture of some nice ideas (the zombie Decepticons and Megatron actually keeping Starscream on a leash for a change. Though even without having seen the Starscream/Megs/Ratchet Guido cover it would be 99% obvious he should have put Starscream fully under and that tiny bit of free will is going to bite Megs on the arse almost immediately).

And going back to the Headmaster heads is a great idea, even if it does leave the worrying possibility that Scorpy will return (and a pre-character development Scorpy at that) and, as Ziggy says, bugger up one of the all time great deaths.

The Wreckers however were somewhat dull and oddly written in places (Rack'N'Ruin as the doctor? Hmmm) and Policeman Magnus continues to completely miss the point (as said before, there's very good reason why Roberts' has turned this interpretation into an out and out comedy character). And the whole thing still has a general sense of "Mhhhhggghhh" to it. You couldn't call it a terrible book (bar the art) but it's amazingly average.

As for the cliffhanger... OK, even knowing who Circuit Smasher is going to turn out to be- Did anyone actually want Circuit Breaker in this comic so badly a copyright dodging homage had to be included? It's actually odd how even in the Marvel days Furman seemed to like her more than the readers did by a considerable margin...

I'm also slightly puzzled, again, that the UK stuff is being ignored because it's too obscure for most of the readers but we're getting references to The Decepticon Powermasters Eat All The Pies On Nebulos, when I would say more Americans have read Target: 2006 in the last decade than have revisted that... classic.

All in all, this is the comic equivalent of McCartney's whizzy broken old man voice performance of Hey Jude at the Olympics. Yes, you were great and hugely important, and yes you're still not the worst, but you're definitely a long way past your best so maybe it's best not to?

EDIT: And it looks like the fact that Megatron and Starscream were doused in Nucleon before the Ark crashed (along with Ratchet-n though it could have affected him before his head was cut off- and the absent Shockwave) has been either forgotten or fudged. Unless those horrible side effects Kup mentioned last issue is why Megatron has that odd chest in some panels?

Red Dave Prime
2012-08-02, 01:51 PM
Yeah, cant say I loved that last image of Circuit SMASHER (Grrrrr!!!)

I like Humans in a Transformer Story to give scale, not to be more powerful and, frankly, stupid.

Also forgot to mention how stupid Kup was when he decides to take on the decepticons.

"Ah Skywarp, I forgot how you can.. er... warp.... bugger.... down I go"

All in all, this is the comic equivalent of McCartney's whizzy broken old man voice performance of Hey Jude at the Olympics. Yes, you were great and hugely important, and yes you're still not the worst, but you're definitely a long way past your best so maybe it's best not to?

Or at least, dont revisit the past glories - comparisons like this rarely flatter. Furman could do a lot worse than to ask IDW to let him write a small 4-5 parter featuring neglected bots away from the main story to show he can still go. I firmly believe that without LSOTW we wouldnt have MTMTE and a similar attempt by Furman could be worth a shot.

Terome
2012-08-02, 03:20 PM
Slow and stodgy, but the idea of Megatron going around carving up people's brains, building his nemesis into a sleigh and destroying a civilisation because he was bored gave me a good chuckle. He's like a puppy left in the house all day. I'm interested in Grimlock's return to Nebulos but can't say I give two units of anything about Spike's starring role in The New Adventures Of He-Man.

Does anyone else have the suspicion that Furman might have a touch of Whirl-envy? I think the timing would mean that the script to this was finished before MTMTE came out, but I couldn't help but think that a dash of Roberts' Whirl has leaked through the mirror.

inflatable dalek
2012-08-02, 04:10 PM
Spike's starring role in The New Adventures Of He-Man.

I wish you hadn't pointed that out.


Grimlock's plot is interesting, but the lengthy scenes of him talking exposition to himself for no good reason were very clumsily written. At least in the similar Hydrus 4 stuff he had someone to talk to for most of it...


Does anyone else have the suspicion that Furman might have a touch of Whirl-envy? I think the timing would mean that the script to this was finished before MTMTE came out, but I couldn't help but think that a dash of Roberts' Whirl has leaked through the mirror.

Next you'll be saying it's not just a coincidence that Kup's now with the Wreckers.

Terome
2012-08-02, 10:33 PM
I wish you hadn't pointed that out.

He's got the good and the magic!


Grimlock's plot is interesting, but the lengthy scenes of him talking exposition to himself for no good reason were very clumsily written. At least in the similar Hydrus 4 stuff he had someone to talk to for most of it...


Yeah, weirdly clumsy. I guess the other Dinobots are going to be babysitting Slag but you could have spared, say, Sludge to come along to have someone to chat with. Sludge always misses out on his chance to shine.


Next you'll be saying it's not just a coincidence that Kup's now with the Wreckers.

It is genuinely nostalgic to have the Wreckers be a buncha mooks who get bossed around by some shouty guy. They were good against facsimiles, but whenever they had a real target on their hands they did tend to Ollie and Hardy themselves to death.

Zigzagger: I am a little conflicted about undoing Ratchet and, quite possibly, Scorponok's* heroic sacrifices. Not angry, just conflicted.

I am conflicted about how Megatron doesn't seem to have twigged that, because he and Ratchet share a mind-link and feel what each other are feeling, riding Ratchet around like a Shetland pony must be giving his poor cy-chiatrist conniptions.

relak
2012-08-03, 02:31 AM
I am conflicted about how Megatron doesn't seem to have twigged that, because he and Ratchet share a mind-link and feel what each other are feeling, riding Ratchet around like a Shetland pony must be giving his poor cy-chiatrist conniptions.
Maybe it's Megatron's personal therapy. His own way to symbolically and actually dominate Rachet's shared portion of his mind.
If the mind link still works like in Marvel, i can forsee Ratchet being the key to megatron's defeat.

To Be honest, i WAS hoping the Neo Knights make a comeback.
But Circuit Smasher?????????????

Is he Circuit Breaker's brother or something??

Warcry
2012-08-03, 04:23 AM
The more Furman writes, the happier I am that the real Marvel universe wrapped up with G2.

There's nothing really, truly terrible here, other than the fact that Furman has completely forgotten who Marvel Ultra Magnus is in the intervening years. But there's nothing good either. Megatron stomping out human life because he was bored? Zombifying all the Underbase casualties? Random Action Master vehicle cameos? Ratchet as a severed head? Revisiting the Headmasters even though none of the dead ones matter but Scorponok and reviving him would be pissing on one of the greatest moments of the original run? Honestly, so far it reads less like a story and more like a checklist of things that the crowd that championed Furman's petition were saying they wanted to see in the book.

And you know...pandering to your base isn't all bad, and he could still make something good out of it. But not at this rate. In the old days everything from 80.5 to the end of 82 would have been one comic's worth of material, but in Furman's new, decompressed style there's not going to be room for anything but pandering. And while that's all well and good in fanfic I expect better from professionally-written comics.

One of the reasons that G2 was a worthy sequel in my books is that it expanded the universe in new directions, introduced new ideas and generally took a fresh approach to everything that we'd gotten used to in the 80s. But this book doesn't do that. It's not expanding, it's turning the universe back in on itself, tying up loose threads and underscoring all the things that came before. There's nothing new here, nothing fresh, and nothing yet that justifies this book's existence. That doesn't mean that it isn't mildly entertaining, but it just feels hollow to me and I still don't get what the point of it is (other than making money, naturally).

inflatable dalek
2012-08-03, 09:09 AM
One thing that does worry me is how two of the plots introduced last issue- Prime's Problem and the Soundwave/Bludgeon comedy double act- are completely ignored here.

Having read Furman's write ups on his blog- It's good to see he has a plan even if it's not the plan I'd have gone for.

From his description of what he's doing with Prime I'd say there's a direct influence from Buffy season 6. Which is worrying as that's a terrible season. Though Prime will have a few advantages (we won't be being asked to feel sorry for how hard his life is whilst he looks like a model, lives in a massive house and wears new designer clothes every day) over that at least.

And you know...pandering to your base isn't all bad, and he could still make something good out of it. But not at this rate.

Yeah, considering the pettition people are going to be the main buyers for the book it might as well give them what they want. The problem with a book dedicated to fanwank (and there's nothing wrong with that, 98% of Roberts' stuff arguably boils down to that) is that when you're making a great show of making lots of references and following up on even the most obscure of loose ends it means anything that gets ignored or changed stands out more than a G2 style fresh start book.

Not that G2's style is a inherently better one, but because of having a new toyline to push the only bits of old business that got dealt with were things like Fort Max and the Ark that specifically related to the need to bring Megatron and Starscream back because they had new toys. So within the rules of what the book was trying to do things like the Last Autobot or lack of Action Masters could just be hand waved within that three year gap.

Now with a book like this, when you get a reference to People Power it makes you remember the Nebulons are already successful at putting a Transformer mind in a new body as seen with PM Prime. Just put Brainstorm's mind on a floppy disc and transfer it over.

Or when it turns out the zombie Decepticons were from a prison/morgue on the Ark it makes you notice the contradiction from when Grimlock filled the stasis tubes up with Nucleon and Megatron was the only Decepticon there.

Or how Prime's trouble over getting over his death depends on him forgetting his first death.

Again, there's nothing wrong with this kind of approach, but it does make these things stand out more.


One other interesting thing from the Blog is Furman saying Unicron is dead and will not be appearing. Which is something I applaud, but I'm surprised he's come straight out and said it when 81 seemed to be teasing over the possibility.

Red Dave Prime
2012-08-03, 11:04 AM
I quite enjoyed season 6 of buffy....

Skids
2012-08-03, 12:12 PM
Hi there everyone.

Finally got my hands on this one.

The good: overall, I find it to be a rather solid read. Not a groundbreaking one - that's for sure - but fun and emotion-evoking nonetheless.

Nice to know that Kup's still in shape and even more badass than the last time we saw him. Silly as it may be, that bit with the old-timer blowing Bludgeon to pieces and cutting Galvy in half totally did it for me.

Prime's actions also seem to fit him perfectly well. Constantly self-blaming, confused by doubt yet somehow managing to capture the bigger picture before anyone else does, Furman's take on the character intrigued me in the past and I'd really like to see more of it in the future.

(Nota bene, I wonder if and how will Prime react to the fact of Earth being totally devastated as a more-or-less direct consequence of his decision; namely, the decision of keeping Ratchet as well as Megatron alive instead of pulling the trigger for the sake of greater good.)

Finally, hadn't the cover spoiled it, Megatron's return would have made some impact, wouldn't it?

The bad: I'm not a big fan of reusing old concepts over and over again. The thought of Unicron's second coming in any but metaphorical sense repels me; the possibility of bringing Thunderwing back to life strikes me as unnecessary and needless crap. What's dead should stay dead.

Funny thing, during the first encounter with the issue I caught myself on evaluating the content almost solely on the basis of its relations to the G2#1. I quickly slapped myself in the head not wanting to miss all the fun because of some rambling complaints but the question remains. Will Regeneration stand up to the high standards set by Furman himself with the G2 series? I certainly hope so although - truth to be told - the story provided in #81 lacks the depth of its G2 counterpart.

The ugly: not sure how do I feel about the art. On the one hand, it suffers terribly by comparison with the newest MTMTE. The drawings are somewhat careless and the shiny coloring just doesn't do the trick for me. In fact, sometimes the art feels, I dunno, childish? On the other hand, Wildman facial expressions brought back so many buried memories that I'm willing to label the above-mentioned problems as merely details of minor importance.

To sum up: WildFur achieved IMO a sort of unstable equilibrium with this one. I'm sure if they're gonna proceed in the right direction their work will once again give me the thrills I remember from my childhood. Conversely, a misguided step will surely result in a terrible mixture of badly recycled concepts and unreadable nonsense.

Time will tell.

Denyer
2012-08-03, 11:17 PM
98% of Roberts' stuff arguably boils down to that

Wouldn't entirely agree. It's well-versed in other material and fan-pleasing to be sure, but there's also an emphasis on character-driven plotting. The student's far more than the master by this point.

Had a skim of this and might go for it in trade provided it continues to move fairly rapidly. As one more branching of a timeline it could go somewhere within that many issues, and revisiting the original heads is a neat touch.

Season 6 has the one where Tara comes back, doesn't it? Did it also have the one where everyone ends up in a pairing? There were good bits, anyway.

Terome
2012-08-03, 11:30 PM
Fan-wank's a word that no two people seem to use in the same way. I always took it to mean when an author of a serial or a franchise project puts a lot of importance on a facet or moment that would only be understood by hardcore fans of that serial or franchise. It is typically masturbatory and inelegant, as a wank should be.

By that definition, I'd agree that Regeneration One was 'based on fanwank,' but I'm not remembering much from MTMTE that qualifies. The panel of Fort Max ripping apart the genericons that mirrors Overlord might, because it's certainly inelegant. But would something like Crankcase knowing the exact model number of the Symbol Ship, which harkens back to his tech spec function of 'data collector?' That might be too subtle to fit.

What definition is everybody else working to?

Red Dave Prime: I quite enjoyed season 6 of buffy....

Me too!

relak
2012-08-04, 12:45 AM
One of the reasons that G2 was a worthy sequel in my books is that it expanded the universe in new directions, introduced new ideas and generally took a fresh approach to everything that we'd gotten used to in the 80s. But this book doesn't do that. It's not expanding, it's turning the universe back in on itself, tying up loose threads and underscoring all the things that came before. There's nothing new here, nothing fresh, and nothing yet that justifies this book's existence. That doesn't mean that it isn't mildly entertaining, but it just feels hollow to me and I still don't get what the point of it is (other than making money, naturally).
Erm, ya thats the whole point fo REgeneration. It IS tying up loose ends and underscoring what came before.
Same as Larry Hama's RAH.

For something that expands the universe in new directions, indtroduces new ideas and a fresh approach, there is IDW's main G1 continuity and it's numerous "relaunches"

relak
2012-08-04, 12:50 AM
I wonder if and how will Prime react to the fact of Earth being totally devastated as a more-or-less direct consequence of his decision; namely, the decision of keeping Ratchet as well as Megatron alive instead of pulling the trigger for the sake of greater good.)

ooh. never thought of that. I reckon Prime's either gonna be real mad, leading to a climatic showdown, or he'll just go into deeper depression and commit suicide right then and there

inflatable dalek
2012-08-04, 09:58 AM
Wouldn't entirely agree. It's well-versed in other material and fan-pleasing to be sure, but there's also an emphasis on character-driven plotting. The student's far more than the master by this point.

It is all that as well as being full of injokes, characters the dedicated have always wanted in books more than your more casual buyer and the picking up on olde plots. The three cliffhangers to date with surprise (well, as long as you missed the Theme for issue 8) returns are pure fan service.

Though as Terome says, almost by definition fan wank is going to vary from person to person and it certainly isn't automatically a dirty word.

Season 6 has the one where Tara comes back, doesn't it? Did it also have the one where everyone ends up in a pairing? There were good bits, anyway.

I think you just invented your own plots. But they sound better than what we got.

Denyer
2012-08-04, 12:36 PM
Not really quibbling about definitions (something can arguably be heavy on fan wank/service as well as other things) but 98% implies there's very little else.

I'd only use fanwank as a pejorative if a title doesn't bring quality writing, production, etc. and tries to exist on the back of it. As with most things, proficiency is a prerequisite for breaking 'rules' without being castigated for it.

Tara coming back was Entropy... the other one was some kind of brief closing or fade-to-black sequence, possibly ahead of facing off against some big bad.

Cliffjumper
2012-08-04, 02:50 PM
The whole Dark Willow plot was so hamfisted and after school special I can't remember a huge amount else about the season. Was it the one where Anya and Xander were meant to get married but didn't because SHUT UP?

On-topic, I'm so incredibly glad I'm not buying this. Hell, I'm not even downloading it. It sounds every bit as clumsy, needy and soulless as everything else Ver Furm had done this side of DW exhuming him. "Oh, oh, I've put the Wreckers in like you all wanted! Please love me!". ****ing pathetic.

Terome
2012-08-04, 05:48 PM
On-topic, I'm so incredibly glad I'm not buying this. Hell, I'm not even downloading it. It sounds every bit as clumsy, needy and soulless as everything else Ver Furm had done this side of DW exhuming him. "Oh, oh, I've put the Wreckers in like you all wanted! Please love me!". ****ing pathetic.

It would be fun reading you ripping into it though. Since you've stopped reading Transformers comics it has become very reasonable and polite around here. Maybe we can all win and you can just guess what is awful about each issue and get points for accurate predictions.

Skyquake87
2012-08-04, 11:18 PM
Erm, ya thats the whole point fo REgeneration. It IS tying up loose ends and underscoring what came before.
Same as Larry Hama's RAH.

For something that expands the universe in new directions, indtroduces new ideas and a fresh approach, there is IDW's main G1 continuity and it's numerous "relaunches"

Surely within the parameters of what this book is about, there is scope and potential to do something a bit more interesting than what we're actually getting. This should be doing something other than what we're getting in RID. It's particularly painful as Furman is keeping to decompressed storytelling when both IDWs other TF books and comics in general are moving away from such empty storytelling. This book so far has established nothing and told us nothing. It has no reason to exist on the basis of what we've seen so far.

Warcry
2012-08-05, 03:19 AM
This book so far has established nothing and told us nothing. It has no reason to exist on the basis of what we've seen so far.
This, basically.

A story that takes place after US #80 isn't a unique or fresh idea, and to justify publishing it you need to include more than just exercises in fanwank. Between Another Time and Place, G2 and the fanclub Classics stories there are already three distinct takes on a post-G1 comic universe. Unless you're going to do something new with the premise, there's no reason in the world that we need a fourth. So far they haven't done anything.

Skyquake87
2012-08-05, 09:42 AM
What's worse is that knowing that the actual intended conclusion to Furman's Marvel TF run more than likely came into being during the 12 issue Generation 2 run. The guy has proven himself a past master at reusing storylines intended for cancelled books whenever he gets the chance (c.f. DW Beast Wars synopsis and IDW Beast Wars 'The Gathering', Death's Head # 10 and Death's Head: The Body In Question, Necrowar and The Dead Universe...etc etc), so does he have anything 'new' to say about Transformers? Are there any stories he has to tell that really needed to be told? On the evidence so far, the answer is : no.

Cliffjumper
2012-08-05, 02:52 PM
What I'd prefer to see compared to another continuation would be a top-down reboot using a lot of the same starting points and some of the less extreme constraints as the Marvel comic (and thus effectively the cartoon) and hammering it into a properly workable well-thought out storyline from right at the start. The oft-mooted but never actually tried Ultimate Transformers. Furman's had his crack and he turned it into a mire of shite. Give Roberts a go at the above premise. ****, give Roberts this one, he'd do a better job and at least he'd be constrained by a continuity that didn't start with Infiltration.

Continuations like this are for fanfic, and this is Furman's fanfic. Or would be if he didn't feel quite so bound by what sychophants want.

Terome
2012-08-05, 03:02 PM
What I'd prefer to see compared to another continuation would be a top-down reboot using a lot of the same starting points and some of the less extreme constraints as the Marvel comic (and thus effectively the cartoon) and hammering it into a properly workable well-thought out storyline from right at the start. The oft-mooted but never actually tried Ultimate Transformers. Furman's had his crack and he turned it into a mire of shite. Give Roberts a go at the above premise. ****, give Roberts this one, he'd do a better job and at least he'd be constrained by a continuity that didn't start with Infiltration.


Yeah, he'd do a cracking job on an Ultimate Transformers and could have cranked out a glorious Regeneration.

But doesn't Prime qualify as our current 'reboot from same stating points and some of the less extreme constraints?' It seems to do the trick for the most part, though it does so far seem to be immune to decent comics stories.

Continuations like this are for fanfic, and this is Furman's fanfic. Or would be if he didn't feel quite so bound by what sychophants want.

It's a bit stranger than that - no one was actually demanding the Wreckers to come back, for example. Everyone was quite happy enough with them being dead/obscure/doing fine under new writers. There's a feeling in Regeneration of the host's dad coming downstairs mid-way through the party to put The Who on.

Cliffjumper
2012-08-05, 04:07 PM
Well, maybe not so much what people ask for as what he thinks they want. His writing history leans to overexposing characters after initial positive response - Grimlock, Swoop, Bludgeon, Thunderwing, Nightbeat. I agree that part of the Wreckers' appeal is their relatively esoteric nature, which LSotW sort-of played to at just the right level. If they'd been used to the extend the Dinobots have been they'd probably be a lot less loved. Christ, imagine Maximum Wreckers...

Prime sort-of does the job, but I'd love to see something done with a comic, adhering more to the Marvel-style "arrival" storyline as a starting point rather than the Bay/Prime/IDW "they're already here" approach. More a remake of the Marvel material but avoiding some of the more bizarre storylines.

Terome
2012-08-05, 04:29 PM
Prime sort-of does the job, but I'd love to see something done with a comic, adhering more to the Marvel-style "arrival" storyline as a starting point rather than the Bay/Prime/IDW "they're already here" approach. More a remake of the Marvel material but avoiding some of the more bizarre storylines.

Something that appeared only briefly at the beginning of the Marvel series that was quickly forgotten about was how inexperienced the Cybertronians were with any kind of alien life. I know this can, and did, lead to tired fish-out-of-water hijinx if done lazily, but as an astrobiology nut this to me could be the best part of the franchise. Bay/Prime/IDW cuts out the interesting bit when the Transformers show up and scan the web or whatever and approach humanity as just another carbon-based species.

Low hanging fruit: Transformers come from a machine world which presumably runs itself to some degree. It must be a strange concept to encounter a civilisation where every structure and system had to be built from scratch from non-renewable resources.

Well, maybe not so much what people ask for as what he thinks they want. His writing history leans to overexposing characters after initial positive response - Grimlock, Swoop, Bludgeon, Thunderwing, Nightbeat. I agree that part of the Wreckers' appeal is their relatively esoteric nature,


Last Stand did a really smart thing to keep that up by dropping Ironfist & co. in there. Nothing says 'Wreckers' than 'Who the hell is that guy?' It also knew that actually being a Wrecker is far less interesting than being an ex-Wrecker.

Cliffjumper
2012-08-05, 04:53 PM
Yeh, if Furman had been doing Last Stand you just know it'd be Springer, Broadside et al. being largely exactly the same as they were in the Marvel stuff but a lot more annoying because they're saying the same thing every 3 pages. And they'd all have got ****ed over when they got to Garrus-9 and freed Grimlock.

I'd love to see Roberts handle a fresh continuity; his handle on how to turn good ideas into good stories and exactly how to reference extant material is spot on for that sort of thing, and he's got a real knack for making the reader realise all bets are off - Furman never would have been able to kill Ironfist off after five issues' work on him, for example, or avoid bringing Grimlock and/or Shockwave into the mix.

Terome
2012-08-05, 08:42 PM
Yeh, if Furman had been doing Last Stand you just know it'd be Springer, Broadside et al. being largely exactly the same as they were in the Marvel stuff but a lot more annoying because they're saying the same thing every 3 pages. And they'd all have got ****ed over when they got to Garrus-9 and freed Grimlock.

I'd love to see Roberts handle a fresh continuity; his handle on how to turn good ideas into good stories and exactly how to reference extant material is spot on for that sort of thing, and he's got a real knack for making the reader realise all bets are off - Furman never would have been able to kill Ironfist off after five issues' work on him, for example, or avoid bringing Grimlock and/or Shockwave into the mix.

To be fair, Roche and Roberts' first draft did have a lot more Grimlock, Broadside et al. It was editorial pressure that forced them to think outside the box. (And also to not kill Springer IIRC, though nothing was gained by keeping him alive)

The IDW history doesn't shackle MTMTE like you may think, by the way. AHM sounds good when referred to as 'That time the Decepticons made their last, suicidal push,' and the -ations have stealthy been morphed to resemble the backstory from Generation 2: The Decepticons conquer worlds, sterilise them and then cyberform them to taste. Or, at least, they used to. The hint is that by the time of the -ations, the Decepticons were already finished as a galactic presence. Even the Drift miniseries has been made interesting, though not so interesting that I'd go back and read the thing like brave old Dalek has done.

relak
2012-08-06, 09:18 AM
Surely within the parameters of what this book is about, there is scope and potential to do something a bit more interesting than what we're actually getting. This should be doing something other than what we're getting in RID. It's particularly painful as Furman is keeping to decompressed storytelling when both IDWs other TF books and comics in general are moving away from such empty storytelling. This book so far has established nothing and told us nothing. It has no reason to exist on the basis of what we've seen so far.

I remember an interview that he said he had planned a miniseries worth of story. If a miniseries is 6 issues, then perhaps that's all he has: 6 issues worth of story but IDW wants him to stretch it to cover 81 to 100.

Cliffjumper
2012-08-06, 09:30 AM
I remember an interview that he said he had planned a miniseries worth of story. If a miniseries is 6 issues, then perhaps that's all he has: 6 issues worth of story but IDW wants him to stretch it to cover 81 to 100.

They oughta be ashamed of themselves holding a gun to his head and forcing them to make him write comics. I wonder if Infiltration was originally planned as a five-page strip and then they forced Furman to extend it to a mind-numbling 83 issues?

Red Dave Prime
2012-08-06, 07:01 PM
They oughta be ashamed of themselves holding a gun to his head and forcing them to make him write comics. I wonder if Infiltration was originally planned as a five-page strip and then they forced Furman to extend it to a mind-numbling 83 issues?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

relak
2012-08-07, 12:40 PM
They oughta be ashamed of themselves holding a gun to his head and forcing them to make him write comics. I wonder if Infiltration was originally planned as a five-page strip and then they forced Furman to extend it to a mind-numbling 83 issues?

i dont think so. Cos Infiltration was planned as a miniseries.
HOWEVER, im guessing the Dead universe stuff starting with Stormbringer was a IDW decision in response to fan feedback.
The tag line for Stormbringer was, afterall, "nothing but robots on cybertron"

inflatable dalek
2012-08-07, 02:47 PM
I think cliffy is actually reading this and absolutely loving it but won't say lest it ruins his reputation.

Cliffjumper
2012-08-07, 04:39 PM
Cos Infiltration was planned as a miniseries.

http://www.talknerdytomelover.com/storage/ironhide_facepalm.jpg

inflatable dalek
2012-08-10, 07:02 PM
Just seen his cover for 82, and I think it works much better despite being based on an odd "Grimlock Vs Grimlock" idea:

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/a/a0/RG1_82_cvrRI.jpg

Terome
2012-08-10, 11:07 PM
Just seen his cover for 82, and I think it works much better despite being based on an odd "Grimlock Vs Grimlock" idea:

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/a/a0/RG1_82_cvrRI.jpg

Yeah, that's a nice image. Odd is good. Not enough oddness out there.

Denyer
2012-08-11, 01:06 AM
Pretty decent, even if apparently drawn as two pieces.

Cliffjumper
2012-08-11, 01:45 AM
Looking at that one I'm ot so sure that it's a case of Geoff's work not suiting digital colouring as it is just shit digital colouring... Dunno, once again I've got that vibe of a bit of B&W art coloured by a fan.

Skyquake87
2012-08-11, 09:30 AM
Thats a cool image, wasn't their a similar Grim vs Grim on one of the Titan Hardbacks? I forget who drew it, but it looked a bit like Jae Lee.

I quite like the colour - captures the lurid horror of the old US Marvel comic very well (Transformers really did suffer with the most awful covers ever to have graced a comic book - only Generation 2 looks good!)

inflatable dalek
2012-08-11, 12:47 PM
ANd I'm thinking it's very UK circa issue 200 still. Geoff Senior incentive cover colours: The Rorschach test of fandom.

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-08-11, 06:41 PM
Cos Infiltration was planned as a miniseries.

And Furman can't write a mini-series to save his life. He's better at one-shots and huge epics that can take up 12-25 issues to tell. That is where IDW shot themselves in the foot with The Transformers by having Furman write a bunch of continuing mini-series that always ends with "to be continued in Next series #1" and a bunch of one-shots that were a mixed bag to say the least. If Stormbringer had been the start of a monthly ongoing series (either with #1 or #7) like what the Costa series was, then Furman might (and the keyword here is: MIGHT) have pulled off something truly epic.

But frankly I'm with Cliffy his day is over and it's time to let Barber and Roberts take the franchise into the future.

sto_vo_kor_2000
2012-08-26, 03:05 AM
ooh. never thought of that. I reckon Prime's either gonna be real mad, leading to a climatic showdown, or he'll just go into deeper depression and commit suicide right then and there

and handing command go Hotrod.

relak
2012-08-26, 11:29 AM
and handing command go Hotrod.

And thus cementing the connection between the us marvel series and the uk future timeline as seen in space pirates and time wars?

Grayfox
2012-09-03, 07:15 AM
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=13460

relak
2012-09-03, 02:23 PM
Wait what?
Circuit smasher is spike?

I do hope They give some closure to circuit breaker and the new knights

inflatable dalek
2012-09-03, 04:12 PM
Go on Springer, just shoot Spike, it's for the best...

Auntie Slag
2012-09-03, 05:02 PM
God Prime's a moany little sod in this. Not my cup of tea. And the art's rough as old boots.

The only good thing is Rack n' Ruin getting a line or two.

inflatable dalek
2012-09-03, 05:06 PM
And has no one in the Marvel Universe really noticed Prime can be a moody brooding bugger before? Or is Hot Rod just supposed to be stupid?

Auntie Slag
2012-09-03, 05:28 PM
Ugh, I hate this alternate universe crap. TopSpin's alive, Rodimus is called Hot Rod (and seems to be a whiny Hot Rod at that). I have no desire to go back 20 years like this has.

Happy with RID and MTMTE. Sorry Mr. Furman, maybe if it had more 'Enemy Within' about it, but it ain't not nohow.

How much to bet they bring Nightbeat in too?

Red Dave Prime
2012-09-03, 05:46 PM
Yah, more emo prime!! Never get enough of that.

I'm much like auntie on this - MTMTE & RID are more than adequate at keeping the transformers fan in me happy, I dont feel any pull to this. Maybe it will pull together for a satisfying whole but thats what TPBs are for.

zigzagger
2012-09-03, 08:00 PM
"Spike's dead. I'm Circuit Smasher."

HhuXxkfr3PE

...

Spike's 90's retro-ironic schtick...Bit pathetic, isn't it? Was that Wildman's intention?

Overall, I'm just not feeling this. Like, at all.

Grayfox
2012-09-03, 09:01 PM
I do hope They give some closure to circuit breaker and the new knights

They can't/ Marvel owns them. At best they could go with "and there were some people fighting Unicron too, but we sent them back to Earth. The end."

Jaynz
2012-09-04, 05:24 PM
Yeah... I never liked Furman's take on Prime. Take all the things that made G1 Optimus the iconic character he is and throw it into the shitter. Then take all those things that make Rodimus unlikeable, and just dial it to 11!

Cripes.

Red Dave Prime
2012-09-05, 09:45 PM
Just read the full issue. Not sure I can really offer a valid opinion. It seems that it has a pacey enough plot. Not too short on the dialogue and there would appear to be plenty of different issues in the air. Art is a bit naff to be honest, but I never was a massive fan of this style. Not to be bad but I just find it hard to get fully invested.

But I'll leave it to the real Marvel fans to rate it / slate it.

inflatable dalek
2012-09-06, 08:08 AM
After the Preview I was expecting a really bad issue, those first few pages are fairly atrocious. Mainly thanks to "Circuit Smasher". A deeply stupid looking character badly written (is he barely a husk of a man just relying on instinct or the sort of person who gives lengthy flowery speeches using phrases like "Flotsam and jetsam"?).

Throughout the issue you've got him giving exposition that's supposed to be tragic and horrifying, but is constantly undercut whenever we cut back to his silly face. No one actually liked Circuit Breaker, no one wanted a bonkers homage.

Frankly, this portrayal of Spike would make even Mike Costa go "Whoa, that's a silly way to write Spike".

The rest of the issue though is better. Prime is written like a bad Furman parody (the idea he thinks no one has noticed Marvel Optimus is a thoughtful, introspective and often self doubting character even before it was turned up to 11 is like something out of a wacky sitcom), Blackrock is trying to give Spike a run for his money in the silly outfit stakes and Hot Rod seems to have a permanent expression of wondering if he left the gas on.

But... I liked the straight up acknowledgement that Megatron shouldn't have been able to do half the stuff he has done- plot foreshadowing instead of random stuff being pulled out of the arse.

And the couple of pages with Bludgeon were great, almost out of a totally different comic (well, they were, G2). And showed Wildman's best art on the book to date, whatever general apathy he may or may not have towards drawing giant robots it's clear old skull head still has a close place to his heart. I even like Stranglehold's post diet look.

And whilst I wasn't especially keen on the ripping off the "Come and get Jazz" Target: 2006 cliffhanger I did appreciate the Wreckers being smart and going "Well, it's a trap, we'll turn that to our advantage".

Other random thoughts/niggles:

I think Spike's would have worked better if his viewpoint had been switched with the other human survivors. As they'd never met any Autobots before and only know the robots as the destroyers of their world they should have been the ones baying for blood whilst he should have been the one going "No, these are like what I used to be, they're are only hope".

Especially considering his responsibility would be just as great as the Autobots as he seems to have given up guarding the Ark after a very short time (coming right after his "I am Fortress Maximus and I will defend this planet!" epiphany in his last appearance. Mind, he kept having those and forgetting about them so I suppose that's consistent if nothing else).

Equally, I don't buy the Wreckers being so reasonable and chatty when attacked (especially after poor old Rack'N'Ruin fell). More and more I think the book would be better if Kup had just been in charge of a group of Steelhaven survivors- if nothing else it would have avoided all the "Is it UK continuity or not eh?" confusion.

We keep getting told how amazing and important Hot Rod is without him actually having done anything of special note (either in the original US series or to date here). A bad case of relying on other media to inform the characters.

Speaking of which: Thunderwing. Bleugh. Makes no sense in context of the Marvel series, where no one had any interest in him or what happened to him after either of his deaths.

The Robot Buster suits would have been a nice background touch, but there's the worrying implication they're going to be a major part of Springer's plan. As well as Mecha never working very well in Transformers (hi Mike Costa!) it makes the human survivors look really stupid if they've had these suits hanging on the wall for twenty years and never thought to use them.

All in all, this has been a very strange book to date. Hard to out and out hate, but full of very strange creative decisions that seem to be working against what the book is trying to be. There's some potential here that could be turned around into something good, but it could just as easily go into a full on train wreck.

Either would be preferable to another 17 issues of "Hmmmm... meh it's OK I suppose". At least if it goes off the edge, it'll be comedy gold.

galvatronsbastardson
2012-09-06, 11:29 PM
With all this Regeneration one guff, how does it affect the continuity of the Gen-2 comics? The Swarm and the Cybertronians, etc? Do I now have to disregard all I read in those? :wave:

relak
2012-09-07, 12:12 AM
With all this Regeneration one guff, how does it affect the continuity of the Gen-2 comics? The Swarm and the Cybertronians, etc? Do I now have to disregard all I read in those? :wave:

Technically yes. With the first issue it already throws g2 out the window

cybertronical
2012-09-07, 02:18 AM
After the Preview I was expecting a really bad issue, those first few pages are fairly atrocious. Mainly thanks to "Circuit Smasher". A deeply stupid looking character badly written (is he barely a husk of a man just relying on instinct or the sort of person who gives lengthy flowery speeches using phrases like "Flotsam and jetsam"?).

Or something less limited than your either/or viewpoint?

Throughout the issue you've got him giving exposition that's supposed to be tragic and horrifying, but is constantly undercut whenever we cut back to his silly face. No one actually liked Circuit Breaker, no one wanted a bonkers homage.

You seem to have confused what *you* think with what *everyone* thinks.

The rest of the issue though is better. Prime is written like a bad Furman parody (the idea he thinks no one has noticed Marvel Optimus is a thoughtful, introspective and often self doubting character even before it was turned up to 11 is like something out of a wacky sitcom), Blackrock is trying to give Spike a run for his money in the silly outfit stakes and Hot Rod seems to have a permanent expression of wondering if he left the gas on.

Wow, 8 words dedicated to something positive, shame you derailed it by being a bad fan parody.

We keep getting told how amazing and important Hot Rod is without him actually having done anything of special note (either in the original US series or to date here). A bad case of relying on other media to inform the characters.

Prime says ONCE in the issue that he senses greatness, not that Hot Rod has displayed greatness. Maybe, just maybe, the promise of this will be paid off? No, best to write it off now in as dismissive and as negative tone as possible.

Speaking of which: Thunderwing. Bleugh. Makes no sense in context of the Marvel series, where no one had any interest in him or what happened to him after either of his deaths.

No mention of an interest in him at all in any of the FIVE issues after he died? When the series had to be wrapped up hastily? Gasp!

The Robot Buster suits would have been a nice background touch, but there's the worrying implication they're going to be a major part of Springer's plan. As well as Mecha never working very well in Transformers (hi Mike Costa!) it makes the human survivors look really stupid if they've had these suits hanging on the wall for twenty years and never thought to use them.

I missed the image of the suits covered in 20 years of dust which you must have seen to garner the insight that they had never been used. Well done.

Honesty I've had some issues with the UK stuff being sidelined but I started picking up comics again because I heard of this and can enjoy this series for what it is: a continuation of Marvel US, and it does that admirably. I have niggles and bits which I don't catch at first, but seriously man you seem to be not just hating what's there but creating new things that aren't there to hate which to me seems sort of pointless.

Warcry
2012-09-07, 05:44 PM
Rein in the personal jabs, cybertronical. You're welcome to disagree with dalek but there's no need to be insulting. Thanks. :)

God Prime's a moany little sod in this.

Yeah... I never liked Furman's take on Prime.
A self-doubting Prime can be interesting, but I agree that Furman's taken it too far here. The implication is that (a) he's done nothing but doubt himself for the last twenty years and (b) the other Autobots have been perfectly happy to let him wallow in it. I'm also not sure why Prime is so messed up by this resurrection, when he'd previously died, been brought back, banished to un-space twice and probably a few other things that I'm forgetting. I don't get why this time is worse than all the others, and it seems like the only explanation for that is "because Prime needs to be like this for the story to work".

It had to happen like this to let things on Earth degenerate to the point where Furman could tell his real story, but it stretches plausibility past the breaking point for me.

And the couple of pages with Bludgeon were great, almost out of a totally different comic (well, they were, G2). And showed Wildman's best art on the book to date, whatever general apathy he may or may not have towards drawing giant robots it's clear old skull head still has a close place to his heart. I even like Stranglehold's post diet look.
The organic look of Bludgeon's crew definitely play to Wildman's strengths. I don't think it's a coincidence that Andy's best art in the 80s came when he was drawing these characters, either.

Especially considering his responsibility would be just as great as the Autobots as he seems to have given up guarding the Ark after a very short time (coming right after his "I am Fortress Maximus and I will defend this planet!" epiphany in his last appearance. Mind, he kept having those and forgetting about them so I suppose that's consistent if nothing else).
I'd say his share of the responsibility is much, much greater than the other Autobots'. He was the only Autobot on Earth, and the only Autobot who knew that the Ark had crashed there. He, personally, was responsible for dealing with the problem, either by getting in touch with the other Autobots and calling in backup or by finishing off the Decepticons and destroying the Ark to ensure they wouldn't pose a threat to humanity. He could have eliminated the threat forever in about fifteen minutes without even straining Fort Max's ridiculous arsenal, but he probably buggered off to go skiing instead.

Of course, Marvel Spike was always a self-righteous ass so trying to shift the blame onto someone who didn't even know there was a problem is entirely in character and believable. :)

Either would be preferable to another 17 issues of "Hmmmm... meh it's OK I suppose". At least if it goes off the edge, it'll be comedy gold.
Yeah. Either great or terrible would be vastly preferable to forgettable.

inflatable dalek
2012-09-07, 11:17 PM
Or something less limited than your either/or viewpoint?

I love Furman, he's a huge influence on my love of reading in general and my interest in Transformers in particular. But he's not Patrick McGoohan. He's not even wearing a monkey mask with a Patrick McGoohan mask over it. He has yet to write any Transformers story where the characters- however well written- were in some way beyond my comprehension.

And before we start ascribing some sort of hidden depths or subtle meanings to Spike here... Lets just look at him for a second. And remember he now has the very silly name of Circuit Smasher. Does this seem likely to be someone who is working on multiple levels?



You seem to have confused what *you* think with what *everyone* thinks.

Well yes, that would be the case if everything I said is intended to be 100% literally true. Or even if it came across as if it was supposed to be taken 100% literally.



Wow, 8 words dedicated to something positive, shame you derailed it by being a bad fan parody.

Nope, I enjoyed all the stuff mentioned in what you quoted. The majority of it wasn't intentional and a lot of it was flawed, but it was very funny if nothing else.

And "Bad fan parody" is meaningless. It'd be just as easy to go "Hey, you're bad fan parody for mindlessly liking this bad comic just because it has the Transformers name on it", and just as much bullshit.



Prime says ONCE in the issue that he senses greatness, not that Hot Rod has displayed greatness. Maybe, just maybe, the promise of this will be paid off? No, best to write it off now in as dismissive and as negative tone as possible.

Once in this issue which is...what; the third time overall (including the FCBD)? Or on average about once a full issue? Show don't tell is the rule of all drama, this is just telling (there's an outside, wonderful chance Optimus is just nuts explaining all his odd behaviour so far. That'd be awesome).

And yes, it might pay off brilliantly. Equally it might pay off badly. There's a chance they'll be a free blow job off Kelly Brook thrown in with issue 90. Anything might happen, I don't have a crystal ball to look into the future. All I can comment on with each issue is what happens within it and how it reflects on already published stuff.



No mention of an interest in him at all in any of the FIVE issues after he died? When the series had to be wrapped up hastily? Gasp!

Thuderwing "Died" for the first (possibly only) time in issue 66. 14 issues before the end of the series and 9 issues before whatever it was that was controling him in #75 turned up. A 9 issue period where even having the EVIL Matrix around his neck didn't inspire anyone to look for his body (which fell right outside the Ark lest we forget).


I missed the image of the suits covered in 20 years of dust which you must have seen to garner the insight that they had never been used. Well done.

That does actually raise one good point about the colouring- It's completely at odds with the story. Everything is bright and cheerful and clean despite Wildman doing what he can to try and make it look battered. It winds up feeling like the human survivors are a bunch of OCD freaks spending all their time polishing and hoovering and- oh my, they'd have sorted out Megatron already if only they didn't have to touch every third rock on the way to the Ark.

So considering the Robo suits look as clean and bright and new as the destroyed-by-a-nuclear-bomb wreck of the Golden Gate Bridge did two issues ago what's to say they're not as decrepit and abandoned?

I have niggles and bits which I don't catch at first, but seriously man you seem to be not just hating what's there but creating new things that aren't there to hate which to me seems sort of pointless.

Well, if you could point to something new I've created in any of my posts on this issue I'd be more ready to argue that point. As far as I can see, everything I've mentioned actually happened in the comic, even if the relative merits are up for debate. If I were creating new things just to hate... That Kelly Brook thing would definitely be happening.


And I'd hate every second.

More seriously... people who really, really like this comic seem very defensive about it. In terms of comparison, I've been harsher on the last two issues of RID. But no one is jumping in there to pick apart my phraseology in an overly literal way or accuse me of making up stuff because of my anti-Barber agenda.

Or did I miss the memo with the list of comics and creators it's OK to have issues with and which ones are above reproach at all times?

Of course, Marvel Spike was always a self-righteous ass so trying to shift the blame onto someone who didn't even know there was a problem is entirely in character and believable.

Still, at least he's used the apocalypse as an excuse to finish collage. When he's not being silent full of rage man he's a hell of a lot more verbose than he used to be (and with a considerably enriched vocabulary as well).

relak
2012-09-09, 06:25 AM
I'm also not sure why Prime is so messed up by this resurrection, when he'd previously died, been brought back, banished to un-space twice and probably a few other things that I'm forgetting.

I believe it has something to do with the fact that this resurrection was not a "resurrection" per se like all the previous.
This Prime is Hi-Q.
He was remade from Hi-Q

Who knows how much of him is Hi-Q and how much is actually Optimus?

Denyer
2012-09-09, 11:26 AM
Plus the issue of just how much Prime was retained on Ethan Zachary's media -- although if we assume that keeping memory records is common enough, or that Prime has a bit of additional backup in the form of contact with the matrix, that's less of an issue.

But basically, the Autobots are deluding themselves and looking for a figurehead.

Red Dave Prime
2012-09-09, 12:14 PM
Prime was retained on Ethan Zachary's media

As an aside, I hated that plot point. I think it put me off the marvel series for a good while.

It gets work when you look back and realise that primes personality and memory is smaller than an i-store app.

Denyer
2012-09-09, 02:26 PM
As I say, I don't think it's necessarily his memory on there, even setting aside that 'floppy disc' is probably a place holding signifier for top-of-the-range storage... there's already a precedent for personalities being stored on crystals, Prime can shift his mind into Roller, and we see matter-to-energy transportation in the space bridges and other ways... really, the thing that prevents Cybertronians from being immortal in every case must be some kind of cultural taboo about restoring from backups (and possibly about backing up in the first place, with all of the attendant security risks; a copy of a mind state in the wrong hands would be a great source of enemy intelligence, and any encryption would have to have a key somewhere.) Heisenberg has to be a factor; it's impossible to confirm that what you get next time is exactly the same... but a bit more acceptable when (as with a transporter) there's only one version of someone running around.

I dare say Prime's basic personality could be encoded as a few thousand bytes, picking from a menu of stock traits. Whilst it's a hostile action to reprogram someone, it happens fairly frequently in stories -- cerebro shells, Starscream with the matrix, Brawn goes nuts, etc. and the damage is reversible.

Squishies are even less comfortable with the concept of storing mind states, on average.

Cliffjumper
2012-09-09, 02:57 PM
I've said it before and I'll run it out one more time - I love Eugenesis saying that PM/AM Prime is basically a highly sophisticated clone because it takes out an era where the character really hasn't aged well. We've been inside Prime's head now and it's been largely unexciting, how about we go back to the Big Damn Hero version instead? I think this is why both Prime and the films appeal to me more than the comics; there's a sense that no-one writing the things is either willing or able to dial down the emo, instead just writing him out every six months or so. This isn't to say I'm against depth in characters, just that I've had my fill of self-doubting flake Optimus.

Of course, it basically comes down to it being too difficult to write a good leader... so much of Transformers fiction is driven by one or the other faction being led by a complete moron.

Auntie Slag
2012-09-09, 06:25 PM
Doubting Prime was good in the early days e.g. the 'Crisis of Command' story; he has a bit of a downer, listens to The Cure, then goes out and smacks a lot of people in the mouth because only in this way is he saving billions of lives.

Then he had more of an issue seeing what his pleb force got up to in the Target: 2006 arc. And the result of that was the opening pages of 'Prey'. How good were those opening panels? I loved that bit, where he's staring at all the TV's Elvis style, stunned by what's gone on. Then he sits down, contemplates a bit (without The Cure this time), and then gets on the phone and says dynamically: "Wheeljack, I want to speak to you, NOW".

Loved those scenes. That was Prime being a leader and Furman wrote it well. He can write a cool Prime, but this just seems like no steps forward, fifteen thousand steps back. I agree on a more kick-ass Prime, but also a more um... lucid Prime. There's no doubt, he knows what he wants from Sainsbury's, and he goes out there and he ****ing buys those goods from Sainsburys. Because he's Optimus Prime and he comes up with plans, and he uses Post-It's and he works out stuff.

You can't be airy-fairy in that position forever. Otherwise why not just repaint Huffer in Prime's colours and Prime can go to Bangor for a long holiday. Who would know the difference?

inflatable dalek
2012-09-09, 06:45 PM
I've said it before and I'll run it out one more time - I love Eugenesis saying that PM/AM Prime is basically a highly sophisticated clone because it takes out an era where the character really hasn't aged well.


And I've said it before but if we go with the books idea that there were two different Prime's (and it is odd that amongst all the fannishness the idea of the Prime being made out of HiQ is a third version is completely ignored even though it's more credible he'd be a gestalt of two minds) then the PM version is the one who should be getting all the praise.

Despite being more self doubting and troubled (arguably because of facing bigger crises) he succesfully dealt with at least three BIG species/planet threatening situations (Underbase, Unicron and the Swarm) whilst his predecessor generally didn't have any bigger threats than just the Decepticons or the odd bonkers human to deal with.

Relak's idea that Furman might be dealing with the HiQ thing is an interesting one that has some potential, but I don't think it's born out by the Buffy season 6 idea being presented here that he's all sad because he was pulled out of somewhere nice to be brought back to life (indeed, his description of his death as "peaceful" suggests he's no memory of being trapped in a Patrick Stewart lookalikes body being chased by monsters).

Cliffjumper
2012-09-09, 07:20 PM
Doubting Prime was good in the early days e.g. the 'Crisis of Command' story; he has a bit of a downer, listens to The Cure, then goes out and smacks a lot of people in the mouth because only in this way is he saving billions of lives.

Then he had more of an issue seeing what his pleb force got up to in the Target: 2006 arc. And the result of that was the opening pages of 'Prey'. How good were those opening panels? I loved that bit, where he's staring at all the TV's Elvis style, stunned by what's gone on. Then he sits down, contemplates a bit (without The Cure this time), and then gets on the phone and says dynamically: "Wheeljack, I want to speak to you, NOW".

I like that stuff - he gets down, he gets back up again - Crisis of Command sees him effortlessly beat up the cream of the Decepticons like something out of a Bay film, Prey sees him handle Megatron and the Predacons then beaming to Cybertron to beat up everyone he can get his big blue Grimlock-crushing fists on.

But there's a sense with Furman especially that it's Pandora's box. Now we know Prime is prone to, say, melodramatic wailing and deserting his troops whenever a medic he rarely spoke to may or may not have died he can't go back to not being a complete emotional cripple.

Despite being more self doubting and troubled (arguably because of facing bigger crises) he succesfully dealt with at least three BIG species/planet threatening situations (Underbase, Unicron and the Swarm) whilst his predecessor generally didn't have any bigger threats than just the Decepticons or the odd bonkers human to deal with.

Proper Prime could only beat what was in front of him - rallying the Autobot army on Cybertron was arguably more crucial than either of those things or there might not have been Autobots to combat Starscream, Unicron and/or the Swarm. And how did PM Prime deal with all these crises? Kicking arse and taking names? Nope, plot device, plot device, plot device - it's largely a case of crack out the Matrix because there're **** all other ideas and hope for the best (the exception being the after-school special moral lesson of the Underbase which everyone saw coming 40 pages off) - Hot Rod could do that.

I mean at least twice the big plan is to kill himself and hope the universe works it all out.

inflatable dalek
2012-09-09, 07:35 PM
And how did PM Prime deal with all these crises? Kicking arse and taking names? Nope, plot device, plot device, plot device - it's largely a case of crack out the Matrix because there're **** all other ideas and hope for the best (the exception being the after-school special moral lesson of the Underbase which everyone saw coming 40 pages off) - Hot Rod could do that.

Original Prime is just as prone to plot devices though, pretty much the first thing he did was dependant on remembering Windcharger has an insanely useful special power and he only survived Prey because Megatron has the misfortune to arrange the attack for the one day he was lugging about an exact duplicate of himself about in his trailer.

And with both the Unicron and the Swarm it was more Prime's strength of personality that won the day than anything else- He effectively purged the Matrix and made the Swarm nice just by being awesome.

I mean at least twice the big plan is to kill himself and hope the universe works it all out.

Which is only once more than the original.

Auntie Slag
2012-09-09, 07:50 PM
Oh, must mention 'And there shall come a leader'. He was a right, rip-roaring Errol Flynn. No doubts on that day, just turn up with a massive gun and a shedload of troops on a narrow bridge.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their eyes, lads!

cybertronical
2012-09-09, 09:06 PM
Rein in the personal jabs, cybertronical. You're welcome to disagree with dalek but there's no need to be insulting. Thanks. :)

Like on one of the other forum threads where he states that Milne deserved to get ripped off by Pat Lee? Sorry but there's a pattern of a hater hating in a lot of replies here.

cybertronical
2012-09-09, 09:55 PM
I love Furman, he's a huge influence on my love of reading in general and my interest in Transformers in particular. But he's not Patrick McGoohan. He's not even wearing a monkey mask with a Patrick McGoohan mask over it. He has yet to write any Transformers story where the characters- however well written- were in some way beyond my comprehension.

And before we start ascribing some sort of hidden depths or subtle meanings to Spike here... Lets just look at him for a second. And remember he now has the very silly name of Circuit Smasher. Does this seem likely to be someone who is working on multiple levels?

But you've taken a handful of pages and written off any potential development in that character. You may ultimately be right but you're declaring failure before the race has started.


Well yes, that would be the case if everything I said is intended to be 100% literally true. Or even if it came across as if it was supposed to be taken 100% literally.

Well I stumbled upon the same post you cut and pasted on another forum where others took you to task over this point and you defended it there.

And "Bad fan parody" is meaningless. It'd be just as easy to go "Hey, you're bad fan parody for mindlessly liking this bad comic just because it has the Transformers name on it", and just as much bullshit.

The key difference in my opinion of the book *so far* is that I'm not reading things into things that have not happened yet or may not happen at all.


Once in this issue which is...what; the third time overall (including the FCBD)? Or on average about once a full issue? Show don't tell is the rule of all drama, this is just telling (there's an outside, wonderful chance Optimus is just nuts explaining all his odd behaviour so far. That'd be awesome).

In 80.5 Kup sarcastically says "Mm. Tough being the chosen one" and Hot Rod expresses his surprise at being mentored by Prime.
In 81 mention is made of Hot Rod being mentored but nothing is said about him being "special".
In 82 the characters do not appear.
In 83 Prime says to him "I sense in you... Greatness. A destiny written before time began"

So using the actual issues and the events in them Hot Rod has never been said to have done anything great, and on ONE occassion Prime says that he senses that Hot Rod WILL do something great which is why he chose him. For a Prime that held the Matrix and saw snatches and hints of the future before its not a stretch. Furman has also said that there is a reason why Primus was visually very similar in the features to Hot Rod/Rodimus that would be paid off. So I can prove my point and demonstrate that you are in error.

And yes, it might pay off brilliantly. Equally it might pay off badly. There's a chance they'll be a free blow job off Kelly Brook thrown in with issue 90. Anything might happen, I don't have a crystal ball to look into the future. All I can comment on with each issue is what happens within it and how it reflects on already published stuff.

But as stated above that's not what you're doing.

That does actually raise one good point about the colouring- It's completely at odds with the story. Everything is bright and cheerful and clean despite Wildman doing what he can to try and make it look battered. It winds up feeling like the human survivors are a bunch of OCD freaks spending all their time polishing and hoovering and- oh my, they'd have sorted out Megatron already if only they didn't have to touch every third rock on the way to the Ark.

So considering the Robo suits look as clean and bright and new as the destroyed-by-a-nuclear-bomb wreck of the Golden Gate Bridge did two issues ago what's to say they're not as decrepit and abandoned?

But you have no evidence of them being used or not used, old or new. My point is that you leapt to the conclusion that you could make the most fun out of. Maybe they haven't been used, maybe they have. Is that really a crucial point right now? There's a missile or a rocket in there too which has obviously not been fired which you could have picked on as there is evidence for that being in situ, but honestly they could have just finished building it, it may have no guidance system... A million reasons. Of all those reasons surely you can agree that "They didn't think to fire it for 20 years" would be the most negative way to take it?


More seriously... people who really, really like this comic seem very defensive about it. In terms of comparison, I've been harsher on the last two issues of RID. But no one is jumping in there to pick apart my phraseology in an overly literal way or accuse me of making up stuff because of my anti-Barber agenda.

I'm enjoying what there is SO FAR of ReGen1 and I'm looking forward to the pay off of the current arc and the inevitable battle between Prime/Megs. But here's the thing, I've never felt especially defensive of my opinion of it, but your posts are very much an attack whether you realise that's how they sound or not and I will freely admit taht I have been quite snipey back in that first post especially because I hoped that attitude reflected back would demonstrate that its not a great way to conduct yourself. I enjoy RID and MTMTE too for different reasons.

Or did I miss the memo with the list of comics and creators it's OK to have issues with and which ones are above reproach at all times?

Nope, but your swipe at Milne saying that he *deserved* to be ripped of by Pat Lee because of his artwork on one of the other forums was about as low a blow as you can do really. You may not like his work but that is a genuinely unpleasant and mean-spirited way to express that opinion. An artist deserves to effectively be robbed of money for work done that he'd already been robbed of the credit for? Do you deserve to not be paid a day's work because one person objects to how you served them in a shop? You can argue that its a joke or meant as a joke, but it absolutely does not come across in that way. Its not even relevant to the discussion to say it at all.

Cliffjumper
2012-09-09, 10:22 PM
Considering Pat's form at that point, Milne was being colossally stupid with the whole Cyberforce thing. It's basically the industry equivalent of sending your credit card details to apparent Nigerian lottery winners. He might not have deserved to have not been paid for it but he was pretty dumb to expect it to happen.

Red Dave Prime
2012-09-10, 12:55 AM
Wait, those Nigerian lotteries aren't legit? Shit......

Back to the discussion on Prime, I'm really hoping that Barber and Roberts bring him back to being the proper hero that we all enjoyed from the cartoon. If there was one thing Bay did get right, its that Prime should be a kick-ass hero. Prof Xs brain with Wolverines fighting skills. I may be wrong but my understanding is that he was the soldier who unified an army of civilians with the autobots (at least, the g1 toy side of things)

From IDWs history, I've liked the Prime shown in Escalation and Chaos Theory but most of the rest have tried to add far too much emo feelings to a guy who should be all about confidence. He was the guy who inspired the fight back against the decepticons.

And Costas Primes was the worst. By a country mile.

Cliffjumper
2012-09-10, 01:21 AM
There seems to be some sort of mindset among the writers that the comics somehow aren't "grown up" if Optimus isn't a moping cluster of neuroses. You nailed it with the word confidence - he should be an absolute inspiration to the Autobots, the reason they keep fighting against the odds. The films manage this - you can totally believe eight Autobots would follow him against an army into a city swarming with Decepticon ships. Prime manages it. The G1 cartoon occasionally managed it, though sadly bad writing tended to make the rest of the Autobots look like sheep rather than loyal troops.

The Marvel comics were a bit weird with him when you think about it. The aforementioned magic macguffin moments aside he doesn't actually do a lot present day, does he? Most BEEEG storylines especially after he comes back see him sidelined either literally or figuratively.

Red Dave Prime
2012-09-10, 01:35 AM
All that I know is that when i was a kid, My Optimus never backed down - even went toe to toe with Galvatron one Christmas, despite being nearly half his size.... :)

inflatable dalek
2012-09-10, 09:07 AM
[For those bored, there's some relevant thoughts about Optimus at the end of the post, scroll downwards]


Like on one of the other forum threads where he states that Milne deserved to get ripped off by Pat Lee? Sorry but there's a pattern of a hater hating in a lot of replies here.

Well, a quick search of here and Transfans for "Alex Milne Pat Lee" didn't come up with anything obvious this year (though I may have missed it). IIRC was there not something about how I used to hate Milne's used to be so poor he deserved not to be paid by Lee but the-frankly staggering- level of improvement feels like a completely different artist has taken over his body and he's now doing great work.

So, assuming that's the post you're talking about, that's not only saying something complimentary about his current output but is also, really, really, really obviously not literal. My search did throw up a post where I suggested his Megatron Origin work was the result of Pat Lee tricking him into putting his hands in a blender. Do you think I was being literal there and thought the art on that book was drawn with bloody bandage clad stumps?

It probably wasn't. By the by. He'd have not been able to afford the bandages.


That's not literal either.


Should I be putting a little * after everything that isn't 100% literally true with a note explaining in what way it isn't completely true? "Nobody wanted Circuit Breaker back"* *"Except for... err... Bob's Mum might have been a fan"? The odd thing about people picking on this is that Circuit Breakers general lack of popularity amongst fans is high enough to actually make it almost literally true...

I suppose if we're having to spell stuff out: I probably wouldn't like that blow job off Kelly Brook.*






*Unless she's one of those women who treat it like a dog with a chew toy.


And that mental image is why being 100% literal all of the time is a bad thing.

But you've taken a handful of pages and written off any potential development in that character. You may ultimately be right but you're declaring failure before the race has started.

Well again, all I can comment on is what happens in this issue-where Spike has a sizeable supporting role- and how he comes across in it. If a future issue should completely shatter my perception of the character here I'll happily admit. He's got several big hurdles to overcome (would it really have been so hard to just call him Spike? Again, Circuit Breaker wasn't so popular a copyright dodging reuse of the name had to be slotted in somewhere as a priority) but it's not impossible.

A lot will depend on how much gets clarified about exactly what happened that left the Ark on Earth. He could have destroyed it himself, the Autobots could have done the same or taken it home when they dropped the Neo Knights off (which is presuably when they got in touch with him so he could know about shiny new Cybertron). Who really screwed up the most there and how much should he be aiming so much of it at the Autobots?

It's also interesting that you're holding up the percieved negatives as unfair speculation but not me praising the book for the set up over Megatron's new abilities even though it's just as unclear if that is genuine proper plot foreshadowing and now something pulled out of the arse after all.


Well I stumbled upon the same post you cut and pasted on another forum where others took you to task over this point and you defended it there.

Well, one poster (in a thread where- despite being generally much more positive about the book overall than this one only had two people out of half a dozen go into this strange over defensive thing, most either didn't have a issue with someone disagreeing with them or-quite rightly- didn't care) had a problem with that point and got exactly the same reply.

I've no huge desire to go into arguments at other boards in any great depth (especially as everyone-myself included- seems to have taken some deep breaths and gotten over the entire thing) but it's an equally flawed point whoever makes it.

And frankly, you being able to quote new and old posts of mine- including ones on other forums is kind of creepy. Presumably unintentionally but still has a very stalkerish vibe. Especially as you're a new poster whose brief history is entirely taken up (at the time of writing) with posts about me.

I'm sure in nearly a decade online there are a great many of my posts that are contradictory or just plain stupid (I was once very firmly of the opinion the second half of the Armada cartoon was actually OK, sheer madness. Young me was a cock, unlike the sophisticated smart sexy man I am today).

I'm not going to feel especially beholden to things I may have said weeks months or years ago so any more "Ah, but you once said THIS!" style stuff won't help your argument (unless its to prove I am I cock, which frankly I'm more than capable of doing myself) so please stop it so I can sleep with the light off tonight.





So using the actual issues and the events in them Hot Rod has never been said to have done anything great, and on ONE occassion Prime says that he senses that Hot Rod WILL do something great which is why he chose him. For a Prime that held the Matrix and saw snatches and hints of the future before its not a stretch. Furman has also said that there is a reason why Primus was visually very similar in the features to Hot Rod/Rodimus that would be paid off. So I can prove my point and demonstrate that you are in error.

And that is a fair counterpoint.


But as stated above that's not what you're doing.

Not stated very convincingly though. These issue by issue threads are going to be full of speculation (that shouldn't need to be specifically pegged as speculation if it's about stuff in the future in issues as yet unprinted, that should be blatantly obvious) about what will and won't happen. And a lot of it will of course be based on how well we think the title is going. And yes, I'm sure we'll all be amazingly wrong on lots of our guesses (well, I hope so anyway. It's a sad day if Furman gets that predictable).



But you have no evidence of them being used or not used, old or new. My point is that you leapt to the conclusion that you could make the most fun out of. Maybe they haven't been used, maybe they have. Is that really a crucial point right now? There's a missile or a rocket in there too which has obviously not been fired which you could have picked on as there is evidence for that being in situ, but honestly they could have just finished building it, it may have no guidance system... A million reasons. Of all those reasons surely you can agree that "They didn't think to fire it for 20 years" would be the most negative way to take it?

My main reason for focusing on the suits rather than anything else in the room is that they're what go the Significant Look from Springer suggesting they're going to be important to the story. And there's far more negative ways of reading that scene than my speculation; such as-off the top of my head- assuming it wasn't a significant look at all and and Wildman just gave Springer a bad squint for no reason.



I'm enjoying what there is SO FAR of ReGen1 and I'm looking forward to the pay off of the current arc and the inevitable battle between Prime/Megs. But here's the thing, I've never felt especially defensive of my opinion of it, but your posts are very much an attack whether you realise that's how they sound or not and I will freely admit taht I have been quite snipey back in that first post especially because I hoped that attitude reflected back would demonstrate that its not a great way to conduct yourself. I enjoy RID and MTMTE too for different reasons.

And I have no idea how you can get "Hate filled attack" from a review that summed it up as basically average and has some hope for future plotlines like Bludgeon (if not the Thunderwing side of things, just the character himself) and Megatron's mystery backers (Jhiaxus would be my guess. He's been promised; science tech and zombies would fit in with his IDW personality ala Magnus and giving someone like Shockwave these sort of skills would raise the difficult question of why they never did it before).

And if your idea with the snark was in some way supposed to be teaching me a lesson what had Warcry (a harmless chap if ever there were one) do to deserve similar treatment by taking him to task for a post that is possibly at another forum outside his jurisdiction?

Apathetic might be the word. I certainly don't hate it, I stopped letting TF comics wind me up with AHM. These days I read, enjoy the good stuff and mock the bad before forgetting about it. As I must be boring people by banging on about it constantly, cheap digital comics are great in this regard. It's disposable entertainment again, good and bad.



Its not even relevant to the discussion to say it at all.

Well, that's hard to say without being able to find the exact post you're talking about. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't relevant to the discussion at the time though, even if only in a throwaway way.


EDIT: Bugger, forgot the Optimus Prime bit...:


I wonder if the reason Prime comes over as more coflicted/troubled in the comics as opposed to the films and cartoons is in large part down to us being able to "hear" his thoughts and get a sense of the real "man" behind the front he puts on for his troops? A lot of the time (like in Prey) they never know what's troubling him and he'd probably seem a more confident leader without that insider knowledge. The only times I can recall Marvel Prime really breaking down in front of everyone was over Ratchet's death and return. Even the surrender is presented as a straight command decision even if he's not feeling it.

Cyberstrike nTo
2012-09-10, 03:46 PM
More seriously... people who really, really like this comic seem very defensive about it. In terms of comparison, I've been harsher on the last two issues of RID. But no one is jumping in there to pick apart my phraseology in an overly literal way or accuse me of making up stuff because of my anti-Barber agenda.

Or did I miss the memo with the list of comics and creators it's OK to have issues with and which ones are above reproach at all times?

Essentially it's because you have *gasp* the nerve to say that Furman is writing sometimes bad and then you must beg forgiveness from Furman because we all know that when it comes to The Transformers Simon Furman is never bad he's a writer in the same league as Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Warren Ellis, Peter David, and Stan Lee. He's God's gift to The Transformers and we the fans should never question his talent or hate his work because that would tantamount to sacrilege, because Furman as we all know can do no wrong with The Transformers.
Now hopefully you know that I was being sarcastic.

Over at the IDW message board I once called Furman's work there and in particular Revelations and Maximum Dinobots as 100% pure crap and got a PM from a mod there saying that I had attacked Furman personally.

Now I didn't attack Furman's family, politics, his manhood, or the man himself I just said that I thought he had written some bad stories and that I didn't enjoy them. I personally don't consider that what I said as a personal attack. It was meant to show my unhappiness at his less than stellar work. Maybe in hindsight I could have went to detail as too why I hated most his work for the IDW G1 Universe but I was sick and didn't feel like wasting my time fighting over it.

I am sick and tied of seeing creators who aren't doing good work get a free pass because in the cases of people like Simon Furman, Larry Hama, Chris Claremont and Jim Shooter because of their past associations with titles or franchises.

Cliffjumper
2012-09-10, 04:04 PM
I wonder if the reason Prime comes over as more coflicted/troubled in the comics as opposed to the films and cartoons is in large part down to us being able to "hear" his thoughts and get a sense of the real "man" behind the front he puts on for his troops? A lot of the time (like in Prey) they never know what's troubling him and he'd probably seem a more confident leader without that insider knowledge. The only times I can recall Marvel Prime really breaking down in front of everyone was over Ratchet's death and return. Even the surrender is presented as a straight command decision even if he's not feeling it.

Prey works because he's got a point, IMO, and it's a military worry that if he dies there's a chance a moron like Ironhide or Jetfire's going to be calling the shots. Yesterday's Heroes, though, is unforgivably embarrassing - especially as he's shown to have next to no real affinity with Ratchet at any point; the opposite, actually - Ratchet's pivotal early work is largely ignored by pretty much everyone.

Just because comics do give the opportunity to show his inner mopologue is no reason that a) they should and b) it should be so boring and whiny. On the other side of the coin he's rarely all that inspiring in the later Marvel comics either.

It fitted well enough with a lot of the storylines at the time, notably the Unicron soap, and G2 did at least mix it with him actually doing stuff. But it's an angle that's been done now and the DW & IDW versions didn't need to retread it.

Denyer
2012-09-10, 04:17 PM
Furman's really gone off the boil since having to work with lots of story constraints and use page space effectively. I'll defend the concepts Infiltration started with to the bitter end, but most of what he did after that went nowhere. Most of IDW's writers prior to giving Rocherts a shot needed reining in or hand-holding and didn't get it from editorial.

Regen seems fair enough for anyone who wants to ignore UK and G2 stuff that's often lauded as including Furman's better work, but by doing so feels pointless. Not that a straight continuation (or amalgamation) of the aforementioned continuities would get very far without being outstanding work, either. There are plenty of new stories that could be told without dusting off past glories and trying to get them started again... and it isn't going in Furman's favour that other writers are doing just that.

one of the other forum threads where he states that Milne deserved to get ripped off by Pat Lee
Memory for forum snark isn't what it used to be, but I think that was someone else -- certainly someone else first.

I suspect Milne would be the first to concede (and thinking back to old interviews, seem to recall has) that trusting Lee for so long wasn't smart.

Not sure whether it's that his art's come a long way or that he's always been a pretty skilled mimic -- he can do DW house style, he can do Roche's, he can take cues from Figueroa and others... left to his own devices, things tended to get overly busy unless the inking/colouring obliterated the excess detail, but that's been dialled back these days. It's hard to say what his own style is. Doesn't really need one -- he's demonstrably a good all-rounder.

Cliffjumper
2012-09-10, 05:06 PM
I know I said something along those lines about Mad Brick... But yeh, it's often just cheerful hyperbole in a lot of these topics and you have to be a bit worried about someone taking everything on these boards face value.

Furman's just generally far too self-aware and needy now. Everyone loved Nightbeat so let's crack him out. Hey, didn't the Wreckers go down well in Last Stand, let's throw them in. Cor, a lot of fans seemed to have liked Bludgeon, let's work him into every ****ing story.

I haven't read ReGeneration One and I'm not going to for a variety of reasons, the main ones being that the consistently sub-par work of both Furman and IDW over the past five, six years means neither of them merit my time, let alone my money. Nothing I have read about this series makes me think I'm missing out on Furman's latest attempt to turn back the clock.

inflatable dalek
2012-09-10, 08:02 PM
Not sure whether it's that his art's come a long way or that he's always been a pretty skilled mimic -- he can do DW house style, he can do Roche's, he can take cues from Figueroa and others... left to his own devices, things tended to get overly busy unless the inking/colouring obliterated the excess detail, but that's been dialled back these days. It's hard to say what his own style is. Doesn't really need one -- he's demonstrably a good all-rounder.


I think it was either Skyquake or Terome who made the good point Roberts very different (to Furman) hyper-detailed scripting style may be something Milne is more in sympathy with.

It's also worth remembering that this isn't, to date, anything like the worst IDW comic Furman has done. Which is a two way tie between Beast Wars (though that started promising before getting going off the rails really badly so it's early days yet) and the film stuff. Two comics handed to him solely because he was "The Transformers Guy" rather than because anyone bothered to ask if he had any affinity for either property.

Cliffjumper
2012-09-10, 08:39 PM
Nah, I'd say Devastation and Maximum Emobots are worse than either. All of the Movie comics are shit because of their fundamental misunderstanding of the source material and the way IDW just try to super-impose Generation 1 onto the top of it. BW is much the same - cartoon is tightly coiled action adventure with a well-defined small cast; comic is quasi-epic bullshit featuring a thousand faceless ****jobs. Devastation and Emobots are meant to be proper and are written by someone apparently doing what they do best rather than the tired hackwork of a burnt-out old fart who's under 1 on an unimaginative publisher's speed-dial.

I'd agree with Denyer that the basic set-up of the IDW G1 universe is superb... the problem is it's all for nothing if there aren't any good stories in it. Furman was more concerned with setting out the rules for the universe ("This is what I think should be done with Pretenders, Combiners, female Autobots, blar-de-bloody-blar").

Red Dave Prime
2012-09-10, 08:55 PM
I'll defend the first 2-3 issues of devastation. Sixshots initial attack is done really well and the chase after Ratchet, while undermining said good work, is fun. I remember when it first came out there was a real sense of urgency to it all and it seemed like it was going to live up to its name.

But.... ah, well.

I dont think Max Dinobots is as bad as others suggested. Its absolutely stupid but not much more than Bays movies. But it has some fun in it. And I may be alone but I really liked Roches Dinobots - yes, even Swoop. But I can name several IDW series that are far worse - Drift, Megatron Origins, Ironhide and especially Bumblebee all are much less readable.

Denyer
2012-09-10, 09:28 PM
Bumblebee's a great series for kids, although even they're likely to see the plot holes.

Red Dave Prime
2012-09-10, 09:43 PM
Surely as its the g1 based series than we shouldnt be getting such a kid-friendly series especially one that is so out of tone with the main story.

And I dont know if even kids would enjoy Bumblebee.

I just hated it. All of it. From Art to script.

Sorry if that offends anyone :)

Skyquake87
2012-09-10, 09:47 PM
Nah, I'd say Devastation and Maximum Emobots are worse than either. All of the Movie comics are shit because of their fundamental misunderstanding of the source material and the way IDW just try to super-impose Generation 1 onto the top of it. BW is much the same - cartoon is tightly coiled action adventure with a well-defined small cast; comic is quasi-epic bullshit featuring a thousand faceless ****jobs. Devastation and Emobots are meant to be proper and are written by someone apparently doing what they do best rather than the tired hackwork of a burnt-out old fart who's under 1 on an unimaginative publisher's speed-dial.

I'd agree with Denyer that the basic set-up of the IDW G1 universe is superb... the problem is it's all for nothing if there aren't any good stories in it. Furman was more concerned with setting out the rules for the universe ("This is what I think should be done with Pretenders, Combiners, female Autobots, blar-de-bloody-blar").

:lol: Oh my God Cliffy I can't type for laughing...God knows what Cybertronical will make of this. Or does he/she/it just have it in for Dalek?


I suppose having read rather a lot of Furman's non TF stuff, I don't think I treat him like the second coming whenever he gets to write Transformers. Robocop was passable, Alpha Flight was terrible and Death Metal rates up there with Maximum Dinobots for out and out stinker. As does Death's Head 3.0, come to think of it. Can't tell how how bitterly disappointed I was with that. I think I'd have rather read Dan Abnett's take on Death's Head II.

I've not read #83. Thats my caveat first of all. But I have read issue 81 & 82 and they just exist is my over-riding feeling. The twenty year gap is just pointless. This should have been set back in the day, to give this real oomph. Let's really find out what happened with Ark and Fort Max. A dead Earth seems such a disappointment coming after a dead Cybertron (cf. Strombringer - still don't think that's very good. Sorry.). I can't fathom why Megatron would have lobotomised a load of guys I didn't even register as having gone anywhere near Earth, nor why we have Starscream only partially lobotomised (there's a plot development you can see coming a mile off. oh yay...:sick:) . And where does this leave his mind-link with Ratchet...?

Optimus sitting in the middle of nowhere staring into space...just what is going on there? Is he mad? Why is he only now showing signs of a complete mental breakdown when he looked so together on his return (again) from the dead? 20 years surely can't be that long in the eyes of a Transformer.

There are too many choices that seem...bizarre. At least they do to me, I was hoping for something a bit more visceral and dynamic than what we've actually got. We already have two quite...'talky' books in the shape of RID and MTMTE, so what more does this have to say that those two aren't? Not much, sadly.

I was moderately excited by the thought of Bludgeon...but he's going after Thunderwing's remains. Er, why? What will that achieve?

Its like the thing with the Headmaster heads being given new bodies...these aren't things that I would have thought were necessary or interesting things to address, just passing 'What Ifs' given page space. In fact, if this were a 'What If', with a fraction of the page count, then it might just go off on a mad tangent...or we could just get something like What If # 53 which must rank as one of Furman's best pieces of work, just for the massive two fingers it waved.

I think that's what I would have wanted from ReGen - something with a bit of passion and fire in its belly, instead of a half baked concept hung on a few forgotten about minor plot points.

I especially want something more interesting if I'm to spend £2.99 on this month in month out.

For me the kicker isn't that this is 'bad Transformers comics' , its just bad comics. The bar for comic writing has been risen so highly over the last decade that it's difficult not to find it wanting.

This is just turning into waffle now, but when you boil Furman's recent stuff to the plot points and overall direction, you can see what he's trying to do, but the execution is so...unengaging.

I like Generation 2 and Death's Head and Dragon's Claws because these are things that Furman wrote when he was on fire - sharp, exciting stuff that grabs you by the throat and forces you to sit up and pay attention. His latter day stuff...if its not exploring the complexities of its own arsehole (Necrowar, Stormbringer, Death's Head 3.0) then its meandering off and forgetting where it started or what the point is.

Denyer
2012-09-10, 10:03 PM
Surely as its the g1 based series than we shouldnt be getting such a kid-friendly series especially one that is so out of tone with the main story.
It's got about as much to do with the early stuff as TF/Avengers or Infestation... and those kind of things are what thoroughly killed and shat on my interest in IDW continuity, more so than the dire year of McCarthy and the direction-less ongoing.

I can't fathom why Megatron would have lobotomised a load of guys I didn't even register as having gone anywhere near Earth,
I seem to recall they're probably Underbase casualties.

Red Dave Prime
2012-09-10, 10:15 PM
I dont recognise The Avengers cross over. Never even read it. But I think the first investation works ok within the whole chaos arc.

Speaking of which, Heart of Darkness is pure dog shit. And its not aimed at the childrens market.

Denyer
2012-09-11, 07:41 AM
Crossovers aren't so bad if they're either well-written or effectively disposable (and not pushed as being part of continuity), but killing off main cast members in them is something only the likes of Ellis can get away with.

HoD, Ironhide, Drift... again, there's not much direction by those points.

inflatable dalek
2012-09-11, 08:33 AM
I seem to recall they're probably Underbase casualties.

Though there is a bit of wriggle room depending on how you define the word (though not much, surely he woudn't leave the unrepairable behind?) the end of Dark Star has Scorponok saying he's going to collect his "casualties" seemingly with Prime's blessing (and of course, he's not really got the resources to stop him). So we're in a strange world where the book is both being very precise about some minor inconsequential plot points but cheerfully ignoring others as it sees fit.

Thinking about it, a whole load of Decepticons being aboard the Ark in stasis really makes no sense, because either Megatron would have been put in with them post monster-Ratchet and wouldn't have been exposed to Nucleon, or their bodies were all mixed in with the Autobots rather than being kept separately. And Grimlock not knowing about them as he's cheerfully pumping Nucleon into the system is a bit much (and whilst he might have worked around them, that's at odds with his "No need for checks, they're all Autobots!" attitude).

What is odd though is it was also established that there were still fallen Autobots aboard when Shockwave stole the Ark, wouldn't that make for a more interesting zombie army to set against their former comrades?

inflatable dalek
2012-09-14, 02:16 PM
Start humming that Heartbeat gallery music; Geoff's 83 cover:

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/0/09/RG1_83_cvrRI.jpg


Hmmm. Have to say it's the weakest of the three for me, a bit too busy.

Red Dave Prime
2012-09-14, 04:10 PM
Reminds me EJ sus Prowl Spotlight (and issue 7 of Costas ongoing)

I like it. To be honest, I'd rather IDW tried different styles on the covers before letting them into the comic itself if you get me.

Skyquake87
2012-09-15, 06:24 AM
I'd rather they give up with the '90s fad of multiple covers...

The cover itself is decent, I like that Senior has captured how shambling the zombie Decepticons are. Like Dalek says, a bit too busy though.

Terome
2012-09-22, 12:37 AM
So we're in a strange world where the book is both being very precise about some minor inconsequential plot points but cheerfully ignoring others as it sees fit.

That's the whole book so far to a tee, isn't it? We get Auntie and Robot Buster but also have Rack'n'Ruin walking around, we've got Cosmic Carnival callbacks but a G.B. Blackrock who is suddenly some kind of engineering genius and a dynamic between Hot Rod and Optimus that has its roots in Time Wars but not a word about the much more immediate concept of Prime being reborn as partly organic. My question from the start has been, 'Who is this for?' and we're still no closer to the answer on that one.

Anyhow, my favourite part was the introduction of teeny man-sized holograms of the Autobots that can sit at the table with Spike. That is very polite of them to have thought of that.

TEROME'S THOUGHTS ON OPTIMUS PRIME: The Marvel monologues were a nice counterpoint to the guileless Optimus of yesteryear but I reckon that with Prime, less is more. The Prime TV show does it best, to my mind.

Skyquake87
2012-09-22, 06:21 AM
I didn't end up buying this when I went to my comic shop yesterday. I had a leaf through it and wasn't terribly impressed. I just feel this book really is raking over the past and that's not a good thing. It's a bit like 'ooh remember that bit, well...' rather than developing the scope of the original Marvel book as # 76 - 80 were starting to do.

The guy that ran the shop looked a little surprised :
Jared "Really? But this was supposed to be the Second Coming of Jesus as far as Transformers is concerned."
Me: "But its just not very good. The James Roberts book I get is the best one."
Jared : "But all the Transformers fans say this is the one. It outsells the other two books 2:1 here. So you're swimming against the tide of your brethern's opinion?"
Me : "Most Transformers fans don't seem to be able to recognise terrible comics, though."
Jared: "Ah well, I have to be honest, all these books look the same to me. Its just metal men hitting each other"

And therein lies the truth of perhaps why IDW are not reaching a wider audience with these comics...

inflatable dalek
2012-09-22, 07:48 AM
With the way sales dropped off after issue one your store may be an aberration.


TEROME'S THOUGHTS ON OPTIMUS PRIME: The Marvel monologues were a nice counterpoint to the guileless Optimus of yesteryear but I reckon that with Prime, less is more. The Prime TV show does it best, to my mind.

I think Prime's mopiness would work better if he actually had something to be depressed about. What we're getting basically boils down to "Ugghh, it's so sad I'm not dead".

relak
2012-09-23, 09:25 AM
Not entirely

I get the same thing at my local comic shop.

Regeneration is always the first tf comic to go out of stock and I know for a fact that this shop orders equal numbers of all 3 tf series in order to qualify for the incentive covers

figureofauthority84
2012-10-07, 05:19 AM
The more Furman writes, the happier I am that the real Marvel universe wrapped up with G2.

There's nothing really, truly terrible here, other than the fact that Furman has completely forgotten who Marvel Ultra Magnus is in the intervening years. But there's nothing good either. Megatron stomping out human life because he was bored? Zombifying all the Underbase casualties? Random Action Master vehicle cameos? Ratchet as a severed head? Revisiting the Headmasters even though none of the dead ones matter but Scorponok and reviving him would be pissing on one of the greatest moments of the original run? Honestly, so far it reads less like a story and more like a checklist of things that the crowd that championed Furman's petition were saying they wanted to see in the book.

And you know...pandering to your base isn't all bad, and he could still make something good out of it. But not at this rate. In the old days everything from 80.5 to the end of 82 would have been one comic's worth of material, but in Furman's new, decompressed style there's not going to be room for anything but pandering. And while that's all well and good in fanfic I expect better from professionally-written comics.

One of the reasons that G2 was a worthy sequel in my books is that it expanded the universe in new directions, introduced new ideas and generally took a fresh approach to everything that we'd gotten used to in the 80s. But this book doesn't do that. It's not expanding, it's turning the universe back in on itself, tying up loose threads and underscoring all the things that came before. There's nothing new here, nothing fresh, and nothing yet that justifies this book's existence. That doesn't mean that it isn't mildly entertaining, but it just feels hollow to me and I still don't get what the point of it is (other than making money, naturally).I agree with you 100%,furman has nothing new to tell,21 yrs later he`s making things up as he goes along,contradictions and bad story galore abound in this new mess,prime a wimp?,berko running the cosmic carnival after jamming from there for fear of big top?,deactivated decepticons aboard the ark from underbase casualty when scorponok said he was going to attend to his casualties and prime his in issue #50?,earth a dead planet?,no g.i. joe?,original headmaster heads left on nebulos? i`m sure the original heads were part of the headmaster process,grimlock wants to be able to transform again?why? he`s more powerful in this mode,the list goes on and people are actually happy with this?to me the storyline finished with g2, enough said.

Grayfox
2012-10-09, 10:00 AM
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1210/09/idwfirsts.htm (http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformers-regeneration-one-84-preview/25972/)

Do'uh, should be #84 in the title. ;/

inflatable dalek
2012-10-09, 01:58 PM
It does now...

Much more like it, focused and tight with only a few annoyances. Still very obvious, but can it keep this pace up?

Blackjack
2012-10-09, 02:09 PM
For once, a TFTM quote actually felt like part of the dialogue instead of something forcibly injected into it.

inflatable dalek
2012-10-10, 07:58 PM
Easily the best issue yet, and the first one to feel focused.

The big advantage was that most of the things I really haven't liked about the series to date were kept to a minimum. Prime only got three lines, none of which were to do with how sad he is he's not dead; the rehashing of stories Furman's already sold IDW once was one page on Thunderwing; homages/injokes/rip offs were almost non existent (one line from the film, the suits and how Skywarp's teleporter worked in the ...tions).

The only real negative thing to get a large role was Smasher. And I'm still not sure why he couldn't have been just Spike wearing one of the Robot Buster suits (or if they wanted to give him an edge over the other humans even keep Cerebrus about). Him being so keen to destroy the Ark when its facilities could be useful was annoying as well (though I wouldn't be surprised if Roadbuster is just going to ignore him and use its weapons on the Zombie army).

To counter that though, the Wreckers had a smart well thought out plan with the two tier attack. Actual strategy! The careful planning and fight scenes were all very nicely done (and props for remembering to mention why they don't just get a big jug of water to throw at Kup).

Also, mad bad and dangerous to know Megatron remains a joy. Whilst it might have been nice if his lie about why he's kept Ratchet alive had been seeded earlier rather than right before the truth is revealed this petty, bored psychopath has been great fun. It's a shame he's almost certainly going to die next issue (as I can't see the end of Prime's arc being "I wish I was dead" *DIES*) because he's the best character in the book.

The Ratchet thing, whilst fairly obvious from the off, was nicely done as well. Odds on Starscream being the one to finish him off and thus kill Megatron next month?

Wildman's art... well it was probably always going to suffer even worse than usual after two Annuals with scenes that have shown what this book could have looked like (I'm not suggesting keeping the full on 1984 Yomotov homage, but those books certainly showed IDW can be more imaginative with their colouring than shown here and Guido basically gave the best audition possible to be drawing Reg) but it was very weak again.

I think the absolute nadir was the return of a problem he had in his Devil's Due crossover work- Not bothering to draw the mouth on characters in the background if its going to be too much effort (and we're not even talking about 'bots way off in the distance either). His Motormaster (? I actually found it hard to be sure) was especially poor as well.

Overall though, a very big step in the right direction. I don't think it'll ever be brilliant, but at least there was actual fun to be had this time round.

Red Dave Prime
2012-10-10, 10:19 PM
Wasnt too bad was it?

I had to smile at the Thunderwing stuff simply because so many of you have been making fun of Furmans recycling.

As a noob to this, I dont really notice problems with the characters being not quite what they were. I simply found it a fun enough read. I'm not entirely sold on the series yet but its no stinker by any stretch.

figureofauthority84
2012-10-11, 03:49 AM
thinks that this regeneration junk is awful in both story and art?

Grayfox
2012-11-06, 03:20 PM
http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=47979

Megs vs OP - final battle.

Denyer
2012-11-06, 06:53 PM
It does read and look like Marvel, now that Furman's finished with setup.

inflatable dalek
2012-11-06, 08:32 PM
Megatron fires at Optimus at point blank range and only hits his smoke stack?

Weren't the Nucleon revived Autobots supposed to be in a bad state?

Niggles aside (and the art really isn't doing it for me), that reads harmlessly enough.

inflatable dalek
2012-11-07, 09:13 PM
Having now read it....






SPOILERS














Once again I wasn't hugely impressed by the preview (though huge props for skipping the pages with Springer's death so as not to spoil it) but the issue as a whole continued the upward trend from last month.

Weirdly the preview pages managed to include the only really weak art from Wildman. The rest, for the first time in the book, I think stood pretty close to his best work from the '80's. The first page especially was great. And whilst the "We're really just alike" stuff felt like every Megatron/Prime fight we've seen since G2 it was at least a well done variation.

And in a book where- despite being promised no one was safe- we've wound up with more characters alive than we had at the end of 80, a proper main lead death was well overdue and the nasty unheroic way Springer went out was fantastic.

And the missile plot did what I wanted, it made the Wreckers adventure something other than a side show. Circuit Smackhead is still crap though. Especially now it also turns out he never bothered to do anything about making sure Galvatron was dead either ("Well, I'm sure some water will have killed that guy for good").

The issue was actually good enough that even the promise of a shameless Maximum Dinobots rehash in the next story arc isn't enough to put me off. Certainly it can't be worse than the deeply underwhelming first time Furman did it (Swoop: "I hate you! I'm leaving!... No I'm not. Or... yes I am. No... No I'm staying after all. ZOMG! Sludge is dead! Oh... no he's not"). I do hope IDW have gotten some sort of discount on a story they've already brought once though.

It'll will however take some exceptional writing for the return of the "real" Scorponok to not be a facepalm moment.

Terome
2012-11-07, 11:36 PM
Mmm, I'd agree that the art has definitely got back into stride. Nice to have a Optimus/Megatron fight that ends in a satisfying way but I think a bloodless execution of Megatron (and sudden death of Ratchet) would have been sadder than the old 'I shan't kill you in cold blood, oh no you've gone and done something villainous, blam' routine.

Have no enthusiasm whatsoever for the Scorponok thread or the sudden reemergence of Galvatron for no good reason.

I reckon starting the series off with the big fight might have been a better strategy.

inflatable dalek
2012-12-06, 08:47 PM
Am I the only one still reading this then?


A somewhat throwaway issue, that's pretty much instantly forgettable. I did like the page of Nucleon tormented loons (though why are three out of five Dinobots and people like Prowl unaffected?), Scorponok's new personality being influenced by his mind link with Zarek so he's not a complete reboot and at least the full on Maximum Dinobots rehashing was confined to a dream sequence...

There wasn't really anything you could point at as bad as such, but there wasn't much to get really jazzed up about. There was a big feeling of going through the motions.

The whole Ark thing is even more confused now, even if Grimlock didn't bother to Nucleon revive everyone (at odds with the "Yeah pump it all in bitches" attitude he had at the time, but to be fair, Wheeljack is only guessing) why did were they left behind on the Ark when the Neo Knights got returned to Earth? Even if there was some incredibly archaic reason for not removing/destroying the ship you'd have thought that would have been taken care of.

Oh, and look, Prime is brooding again. Over Ratchet I can understand but the "Bwa Ha I had to kill a psychopath who was actively trying to blow up the planet I was standing on" stuff was a bit crap. As with attempts to portray the Master and Doctor as old pals underneath it all still whilst wading through piles of corpses during the Pertwee stuff it makes the hero look a cock if he has some sort of sympathy/sorrow for such an out and out monster.

Red Dave Prime
2012-12-06, 09:11 PM
I read this too. But I'm not too bothered with it. I have to admit, the dream sequence had me. I actually thought "Its just Maximum Dinobots - again!".

But the rest... meh. Scorponok seems veeeerrry similar to his IDW version - plotting evil mastermind looking to join forces with Grimlock (shit, it really is a re-hash) The prime thing seems really stupid. If we get to that situation in the current IDW run it would make sense after issues like Chaos Theory but here I'm not sure. I havent read nearly enough of the marvel run but I always got the impression that Megatron was a somewhat unhinged loser who lost command of his army early on. As Dalek says, the hero looks like a bit of a tosser for mourning the death of a guy who was about to nuke a planet and had slaughtered so many of his troops.

I'm starting to come round to the art though and I thought Galvatron looked full on eerie in that last page.

So far, this one is a case of read the cbr files and no purchase of a ptb likely. It has to be said though, they are loving this over on the IDW forum.

Phase Sixer
2012-12-07, 05:06 AM
Of course they are, they are the reason we have this, can't push for something and then not like it, right?

I will only be picking this up in trade(maybe), I have no real interest in this, I never liked the idea from the start, never understood what the point would be to go back and re-open a "dead universe", when there is so much in the idw tf world that needs to be tocuhed on without wasting resources on a story that to me was good at 80 issues, and obviously from what i've read from people whose opinions I actually care about, I know I haven't missed anything and were what 6 issues in already, out of 20?

Terome
2012-12-07, 10:12 AM
I don't know, I thought the scene with Prime mooning over the mass grave and Megatron's limp, lifeless body was oddly affecting. Then there was some deeply silly stuff about a Warrior Gene and I wanted to post Furman a textbook on genetics. That stuff was mildly interesting as Grimlock's viewpoint on the war, seeing that Grimlock is a bit dim and prone to oversimplification, but for it to turn out to be literally true shows a profound lack of understanding about not just molecular genetics and heridity but also history and storytelling.

inflatable dalek
2012-12-07, 01:22 PM
I don't know, the Prime bit felt like Churchill going to Auschwitz, looking at the gas ovens and going "Aw, it's a shame about Hitler, he was like half of me". Even if Prime had to think that, it wasn't the most tactful time to bring it up.

I have Godwined this thread.

If nothing else Grotusque will be pissed no one gives a **** about him being dead.


Agreed on the whole "Decepticon Gene" thing being very silly, and somewhat at odds with the efforts of the later run Marvel stuff to add some shades of grey to proceedings.

I did actually like that there is no rational reason to keep Thunderwing about rather than having destroyed his bits and bobs, it's for entirely religious reasons.

Terome
2012-12-07, 06:38 PM
I don't know, the Prime bit felt like Churchill going to Auschwitz, looking at the gas ovens and going "Aw, it's a shame about Hitler, he was like half of me". Even if Prime had to think that, it wasn't the most tactful time to bring it up.


Pretty sure that's the version of events that they taught us at school.

Though there is an actual historical precedent - Saladin and Richard the first: Both horrible murderous bastards but Saladin was slightly less horrible and did say a few words of mourning when Richard died of gangrene during a spiteful campaign against his ex-boyfriend.


I did actually like that there is no rational reason to keep Thunderwing about rather than having destroyed his bits and bobs, it's for entirely religious reasons.

Yeah, that did seem like something the Autobots would do after having their religion and folklore basically explode right in their faces.

Death's Head
2012-12-07, 11:12 PM
There was something oddly chilling about the way Wheeljack and co. were so casual about chucking bodies into a mass grave and then ordering their vapourisation.

I mean, yeah, four million years of war etc, etc, but still, man. Half hour ago those robots were walking about in a semi-sentient state, largely intact, yet there's nothing First Aid can do? Despite the Throttlebots being reduced to brain modules and turning out fine? Despite Bumblebee being blown to shit by Action Force/Death's Head and getting himself a shiny new body and face?

Don't get me wrong, I'm still eking some sort of enjoyment out of this but it seems like there's no thought behind the implications of what's happening. Questions are constantly being raised, which is a good thing, but there's sweet Fanny Adams of a chance that they'll be answered. Sadface.

Edit: Mind you, Catilla died from a particularly nasty jab in the side of his ultra-tough protective outer-shell, so some leeway could perhaps be given....

(Nah.)

inflatable dalek
2012-12-14, 04:39 PM
One other thought on this that just occured to me:

You know what's especially daft about the Emobots bemoaning Grimlock for cursing them all with Nucleon? Who was it that cheerfully helped him pump the stasis tubes on the Ark full of the stuff? With the only objection being raised that maybe they should check who they're reviving first (you know, before Grim just said give it to everyone. Even allowing for the Decepticon prisoners that have now been retconned in being kept elsewhere and Megatron for some reason not being stuck with them, where were the Monsterbots?). Surely the guilt for what's happening to Blaster and company is equally shared amongst all five of them?

But if there was any acknowledgement of that Swoop couldn't do his "YOU BETRAYED US BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" IDW thing. The contrast with the loyal but still capable of having a cheeky joke at Grimlock's expense guys in the Wrath two parter is staggering.

figureofauthority84
2012-12-16, 05:51 AM
Of course they are, they are the reason we have this, can't push for something and then not like it, right?

I will only be picking this up in trade(maybe), I have no real interest in this, I never liked the idea from the start, never understood what the point would be to go back and re-open a "dead universe", when there is so much in the idw tf world that needs to be tocuhed on without wasting resources on a story that to me was good at 80 issues, and obviously from what i've read from people whose opinions I actually care about, I know I haven't missed anything and were what 6 issues in already, out of 20?

believe me your not missing nothing from furman and this stupid comic,1-80 and g2 was enough for me,this series sucks.

Death's Head
2012-12-16, 03:03 PM
You know what's especially daft about the Emobots bemoaning Grimlock for cursing them all with Nucleon? Who was it that cheerfully helped him pump the stasis tubes on the Ark full of the stuff? With the only objection being raised that maybe they should check who they're reviving first (you know, before Grim just said give it to everyone. Even allowing for the Decepticon prisoners that have now been retconned in being kept elsewhere and Megatron for some reason not being stuck with them, where were the Monsterbots?). Surely the guilt for what's happening to Blaster and company is equally shared amongst all five of them?

I do wonder about where this whole Nucleon thing is going. Bar Slag's affliction, which is yet another callback to a UK story that allegedly doesn't exist in this series' history, part of me wonders if it wouldn't have been simpler to stick with Nucleon simply removing the ability to transform. Then the implications of that for a race that is defined by it could have been explored much as James Roberts does in Eugenesis with the "reddies".

But again, we come back to the problem of interesting questions and implications being raised but never fully explored. This series could pack twice as much into an issue if Furman was willing to follow through on some of these ideas.

Red Dave Prime
2013-01-04, 12:10 AM
I always feel I cant give a fair review of the regeneration series because I dont know enough of the original series. Never has this been more clear than this issue. I really felt that I wasnt picking up on the main points here. The whole thing seems more than a touch silly - but I could be picking things up wrong.

Having said that, the new "evil" versions of some of the autobots reads like the comic version of the red virus that made everyone evil in the cartoon, only this time Scorponok is behind it. It seems, well, silly.

Prime doesnt help matters by deciding to stay with the humans for reasons that no-one can explain. Yes, I know for the plotline its because there will be a Prime v Galvatron confrontation at some point, but Furman has written himself into a corner and isnt bothering to really work out a proper reason for Prime to stay.

And hasnt the whole "Prime abandons the Autobots" been done already?

And it may be just me but I thought the art looked very scrappy. But I'm not sure I like the style to begin with.

So still not sold into paying money for this. Strictly a dl run for me. Sorry Simon.

figureofauthority84
2013-01-09, 06:58 AM
my advice to you is to stick to issues 1-80 of the original series and generation 2, 1-12 issues and forget this lame continuation even exists,only simon furman fans really love what he`s doing which is killing a classic concept.

inflatable dalek
2013-01-09, 09:21 PM
I think Red Dave Prime had it bang on the nose with the cartoon comparison, the whole "Decepticons via brainwashing" (as much as Scorponok tries to claim it's not that black and white that's exactly what we see on page; everyone he affects just decides to go along with him gleefully) thing has a great Sunbow feel. As does things like the incredibly poor Autobot security (Perceptor: I've completely scanned your new body to find out how and where it was made but missed the KEY OF EVIL you were carrying. Also, we have no CCTV in our cells).

Prime staying behind seemed really random as well, is he going to force himself on the robot hating locals? I can see humanity is pretty ****ed (there's no indication of any survivors other than Spike's group and have we seen any females yet?) but maybe calling on that space council thing that banned contact with Neubulos to help them out would be the better idea.

If after a brief moment of shinning we having Prime return to his "Ghhhhhh I'm so sad I'm not dead" moping we have Hot Rod start showing some of the same signs of not wanting to be leader. "Yeah, in the middle of this crisis I'm off to do a thing". Can Furman not write leaders who want to lead anymore?

Wildman's art was actually generally solid this month despite a strange choice of character model for Brainstorm. But overall this is just a really odd issue.

Terome
2013-01-10, 01:06 AM
I'd partially go with Sunbow, because it is almost impressively dumb, but unlike the Sunbow stuff there isn't much imagination to stand behind the silliness.

But Brainstorm's overblown dialogue was kind of fun.

Grayfox
2013-02-12, 10:46 AM
http://www.fullmetalhero.com/t11527/

That literal key and lock is killing me...

Knightdramon
2013-02-12, 05:44 PM
Yawn...

First page drawing of Scorponok is pretty cool though. And the small headshots of Grimlock on the covers rule.

And the cover with the purplish Hot Rod in vehicle mode rock.

Too bad none of these have anything to do with the story in the issue, which is mind numbingly boring.

Terome
2013-02-12, 06:26 PM
Best bit is from Generation 2. Wasn't Generation 2 great and weird?

Though Grimlock wandering through the carnage looking for the Dinobots is pretty funny, as is Overdrive's desire to have everything neat and in its place. Poor Overdrive. And I'm quite fond of Brainstorm's evil dialogue too.

Pity that the series as a whole has otherwise kind of worn out its welcome.

Skyquake87
2013-02-12, 06:28 PM
Not bad. Just not very interesting. This book so needs that lovely retro colouring IDW applied elsewhere, it would fit the book so much better. Furman doesn't seem to be able to give the 'bots individual personalities so much anymore. Everyone sounds the same. Wildman at least puts some backgrounds in this issue and yes, lovely opening splash page and some general improvement with the robot drawings, which look considerably less wonky. Its about time!

inflatable dalek
2013-02-12, 09:01 PM
The literal key thing is at least silly campy fun that fits in well with the five second brainwashing idea. This storyline really is dragging though in a way the even more uneven first arc didn't, mainly because (once again), the Scorponok thing was something that was wrapped up neatly during the Marvel run. This entire storyline is pointless.

Jaynz
2013-02-12, 10:14 PM
The dialog.. it pains! Reminds me of when the 'smart kid 'cause everyone says he's smart' turns in his papers for his Sophomore Literature course. Lots of long words, lots of run-on sentences, utter garbage to read.

Denyer
2013-02-12, 11:01 PM
Doesn't feel like the series it allegedly fits with to extend... reminds me of 90's fanfic by Birgit Staebler and others; it's an indulgence of the author and coloured by hindsight. Not necessarily a bad thing as yet another What If but not something that holds interest as a retail product.

Cliffjumper
2013-02-12, 11:34 PM
Furman's Ramjet.

inflatable dalek
2013-02-16, 01:11 AM
Hmm, within moments of this comic being released the site crashes, preventing us sharing our views on it. CONSPIRACY THEORY.


You know the sad thing, just between you and me, is I'm actually really enjoying the Scorponok stuff. It's stupid, really stupid (why not just use the key on Grimlock? Who does having their inhibitions loosened make all the Autobots side with Skorponok when not even all the Decepticons who are already Decepticons agree with him? The plan until EVIL Perceptor builds the McGuffin seems to be that four Transformers will go around the entire planet infecting everyone one at a time... which is actually working ect) but has that Sunbow level of daft silly Saturday morning entertainment level.

Some of the funny bits might even be intentional.

But it's really got even less to do with the Marvel series than the far worse first arc, which at least had the weight of history behind it (albeit clobbering you round the side of the head with a large mallet), something like 18 of the pages here could be done in any continuity. As said, it feels more like the cartoon than the comic by the actual cartoon writer, and it would arguably feel more at home amongst the bright and silly Titan Prime strips than with G1ish art attached.

As for the rest... you've got Scorpy explaining why he isn't dead. Again. Presumably because a lot of people seem to have been confused by this (I thought it was fairly obvious, if a pointless avenue of exploration).

Then there's the War World! Blimey, assuming this was planned from the start, would it really have hurt Furman to not slag G2 off in the lead up to the launch?

Couldn't he have just said "With the various continuities being so convoluted we've decided to focus on just the original American run to keep things simple" (though of course, that's not what he's done as all the nods references and Easter eggs are confusing people who don't read his blog. For a comic that was suppossed to be using "Accessible" as its byword you need to do a large chunk of homework first to find out what's going on). Because belittling it makes the recycling here seems daft. "Hey, that Generation 2 comic was just so '90's man... and here is a load of G2 stuff".

Worse than that, Bludgeon's plan made more sense in G2, if you're going to pinch the Matrix you might as well use it to create actual alive soldiers rather than battle mechs/SPACE sleds things. Which presumably just need a battery and programming (Christ, look at how Jetfire twatted Shockwave before the Matrix made him alive...).

The third Marvel-ey thread seems to be a rouge fan fic about how, yeah, dude, Primus was so drawn to look like Rodimus Prime!. Were the sword and shield only in Marvel UK or did Primal Scream use them as well?

So basically, a potentially harmless daft comic dragged down by the bits that fulfil the entire point of the series.

How (unintentionally presumably) appropriate it is that Misfire, a character given new life by Furman's heir apparent is ruthlessly killed by Scorponok for daring to point out the whole thing is a bit silly. Taste that irony, taste it!

Though (as I was reduced to browsing there whilst the site was down) the reaction thread over at the IDW board actually suggests the company have forgotten about this book, Furman was a bit miffed a non-staff member had to start the thread and it took a while for it to get pinned.


So yeah, what Cliffy said in more words.

Death's Head
2013-02-16, 02:26 AM
How (unintentionally presumably) appropriate it is that Misfire, a character given new life by Furman's heir apparent is ruthlessly killed by Scorponok for daring to point out the whole thing is a bit silly. Taste that irony, taste it!

:lol:

Love it!

Terome
2013-02-17, 10:04 PM
Though (as I was reduced to browsing there whilst the site was down) the reaction thread over at the IDW board actually suggests the company have forgotten about this book, Furman was a bit miffed a non-staff member had to start the thread and it took a while for it to get pinned.


That exchange was a bit weird. Don't think I've seen something similar on a public message board about a collaborate work.

inflatable dalek
2013-03-15, 05:18 PM
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All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. [All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy]All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.[/All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy]

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy? All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. www.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.co.uk

Summerhayes
2013-03-15, 05:44 PM
So I should read it then?

inflatable dalek
2013-03-15, 06:04 PM
I mainly figured we needed a thread, but realised any post I made would be 99% identical to the last three or four issues. So I subtly sent up my repetition. You may not have noticed.

Still took more effort that it felt there was spent writing the comic.

Skyquake87
2013-03-15, 10:02 PM
This has found its way onto my standing order. I am not sure why. I didn't even read the last issue. I should do something about that.

I'm so absent about this comic. i forget i'm still buying it. bit of a waste, really. a bit like the enterprise itself.


i'm sticking with Generation 2!!!! i read that again recently, and it's still great :)

Knightdramon
2013-03-16, 02:07 PM
Hmm...got a sort of BM vibe from the Dinobots running away from hordes of autobots on cybertron.

Still not crazy about it, people go nuts over andrew wildman but there's a very, very select few artwork pieces I like from him, and those are standalone ongoing covers. Seems to me like whenever he has to draw a complete comic he's either very sloppy or actually lazy.

I'm actually laughing at how Dinobots versus Grimlock more or less orchestrated by Scorponok is happening for the second time from Furman. And again, it's the same!!!! Dinobots think Grimlock betrayed them, Scorponok is responsible for one party [Dinobots in MD, Grimlock in regeneration], Grimlock doesn't want to fight back, they eventually make peace.

:lol: Really? Was that the best Furman could think up? Is he really that much burnt out from writing about transformers?

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-17, 04:12 AM
:lol: Really? Was that the best Furman could think up? Is he really that much burnt out from writing about transformers?


He got burnt out since the end of Infiltration, where the fans cursed him for trying something new and demanded the same ol', same ol'.

Skyquake87
2013-03-17, 08:49 AM
Did 'fans' demand the same old same old? The publicity for IDWs start on TFs openly stated this would be a new start, building their own universe divorced from what Marvel and Dreamwave had been doing. Furman's work on the -ation series had been generally well received, the problem with that run was that he'd opened up such a massive sprawling storyline that he was clearly into which then had to be wrapped up in eight issues.

This series is the same old same old...because apparently this is what 'fans' demanded - its the whole reason this book exists.

The problem I have with this book is that it exists simply for its own sake. Its an abject lesson in being careful for what you wish for. The answers to the few minor plot points left dangling at the end of the Marvel series make me wish this had all been left alone. Its not terrible, but its not great either.

And again with the 'fans' thing. What are your opinions?

Denyer
2013-03-17, 11:23 AM
I stopped paying attention to IDW publicity and solicits after the load of bollocks about the Bob adaptation of the Animated Movie and fill-in-the-gaps content.

Hmm. Haven't seen Tachy used in a long time.

Knightdramon
2013-03-17, 11:49 AM
Um no, the only "cursing" going on around Infiltration was that it had too many humans, hence the next series being Stormbringer on Cybertron.

Many people, including myself, applauded Furman for [at the time] merging together different bots from different series and making them work as a team. The cast was almost always half pure G1 bots, half headmasters\battlechargers and so on.

The main complaints started coming up when instead of using spotlights for telling standalone stories centered around the title character, he started using them for introducing parallel storylines, and instead of concluding them, expanded more and more to the point where there was a main plot with 4 to 5 other "forced" plot points that required you to pick up books that were otherwise marketed as "optional side stories".

To top it off, Maximum Dinobots was supposed to conclude the earth story at that point. It only had to feature Sunstreaker\Hunter, Hot Rod, Grimlock and the dinobots with Scorponok. Very easy premise and actually very exciting at the time of announcement. Instead, we got monsterbots shoehorned in just for a spaceship ride, Magnus, Shockwave and Soundwave...there was barely enough time for Dinobots! Nevermind that the books were marketed as "mini dinobot spotlights in each issue" which failed miserably.

So, to sum it up, "the fans" as you so have taken to using, disliked Furman's run because it merged too many things at once trying to make it more exciting, false advertising and the fact that the main plot was paper thin as a result.

*I* now dislike REG1 because it seems to just mix and match several things that happened in the past few years. It's like reading the same stuff but in random order and with different art, with few original stuff in between.

Oh, and, on the last page of this issue, Sideswipe is supposed to be next to Red Alert on the shuttle. He looks NOTHING like Sideswipe, the character model exists for nearly 30 f*cking years at this point, so it's not like somebody pressured Wildman to draw him based on a new toy or unfinished cartoon model. That's just f*cking sloppy.

Kungfu Dinobot
2013-03-18, 02:11 AM
And again with the 'fans' thing. What are your opinions?


My Opinion is that Furman is too much of a sell-out to write comics anymore.


Um no, the only "cursing" going on around Infiltration was that it had too many humans, hence the next series being Stormbringer on Cybertron.


How many humans exactly? Three? Four? I would have figured after the Armada kids Furman's "Kid Appeal" characters would be the least to anyones' worry.


The main complaints started coming up when instead of using spotlights for telling standalone stories centered around the title character, he started using them for introducing parallel storylines, and instead of concluding them, expanded more and more to the point where there was a main plot with 4 to 5 other "forced" plot points that required you to pick up books that were otherwise marketed as "optional side stories".

Yes, that was Furman's Achilles Heel.

To top it off, Maximum Dinobots was supposed to conclude the earth story at that point. It only had to feature Sunstreaker\Hunter, Hot Rod, Grimlock and the dinobots with Scorponok. Very easy premise and actually very exciting at the time of announcement. Instead, we got monsterbots shoehorned in just for a spaceship ride, Magnus, Shockwave and Soundwave...there was barely enough time for Dinobots! Nevermind that the books were marketed as "mini dinobot spotlights in each issue" which failed miserably.


Yes,Maximum Dinobots blows, not disagreements.


So, to sum it up, "the fans" as you so have taken to using, disliked Furman's run because it merged too many things at once trying to make it more exciting, false advertising and the fact that the main plot was paper thin as a result.


I dunno, you mentioned that the fans were also cursing Furman for introducing Human characters, not the "OMGsodeep".


*I* now dislike REG1 because it seems to just mix and match several things that happened in the past few years. It's like reading the same stuff but in random order and with different art, with few original stuff in between.


Like I said earlier, Furman is a sellout.


Oh, and, on the last page of this issue, Sideswipe is supposed to be next to Red Alert on the shuttle. He looks NOTHING like Sideswipe, the character model exists for nearly 30 f*cking years at this point, so it's not like somebody pressured Wildman to draw him based on a new toy or unfinished cartoon model. That's just f*cking sloppy.


Can't expect Furman's bitch to do things right.

inflatable dalek
2013-04-01, 06:17 PM
Well, I've been saying from the off Guido would be better on art duties, and lo, with Wildman having to "Go Away" due to being offered some amazing work he couldn't refuse that's what we'll be getting for issues 93-99. And possibly 100 as well if Wildman gets another offer he can't refuse.

Ryan F
2013-06-14, 10:41 PM
Well, this one was a lot better.

Furman seems to be scrabbling in the dark when it comes to big concepts, but pin him down to small-scale, character stuff, he can still pack a punch.

Lets' get the rubbish out of the way first. Galvatron appears once in this issue. He does sod all. Bludgeon appears in this issue. Again, he's there purely to remind readers that he still exists. Oh, and Prime confronts Circuit Smasher. The less said about this storyline the better, because I bloody hated Circuit Breaker, and my golly is Spike just a bad emo substitute for the copyright-perplexing villainess.

However, where this issue works is in its little story. Blaster, Silverbolt, Huffer and Inferno are still recovering from the effects of Nucleon. Blaster, with his Nucleon-enhanced communications skills, realises that Soundwave is sending out bad vibes into the Autobot equivalent of wi-fi (which kind of reminded me of The Sun Makers, to an extent). To shut him up, Soundwave sends the Mayhem attack squad to whoop Blaster's ass.

What follows is a pretty intense action sequence, extremely well written and drawn. It's visceral and exciting, in a way RG1 has never been before. It's all over far too quickly of course, but in those few frames we love the classic Transformers again. Like the battle against Scourge in Target 2006, or the Starscream v Ravage scrap in Enemy Within, the one thing Furman can fall back on is his ability to write good fights.

Let's forget the mentions of Nebulos, and the promise that Hot Rod will literally meet his maker. Let's instead focus on a surprisingly decent instalment of an otherwise lacklustre series.

Did it advance the over-arching plot? No. Did it serve up a decent amount of action? Yes.

(PS mentions of 'The Smelting Pool' and Gene Keys in the same issue? I didn't know whether to laugh or cry...)

Death's Head
2013-06-14, 11:47 PM
I'll certainly say that the last few issues have been a vast improvement over what we've seen before, the lack of inertia for the Galvatron/Earth/Shockwave thread notwithstanding. Still, seeing Carnivac, Snarler et al just reminds what a shame it is that Furman's ignored his own UK stories. The upcoming showdown with Galvatron loses lots if none of the characters can remember Target 2006 and Time Wars, not least when it comes to his inevitable fight with Ultra Magnus.

This is an Ultra Magnus we've never met before fighting a Galvatron that hasn't done much in this reality besides terrify a few Autobots, get swatted by Unicron and buried in the snow by Fort Max. For us, the readers, it might be a rematch but for the characters this fight will mean nothing.

inflatable dalek
2013-06-15, 12:27 AM
I did actually really enjoy the Blaster story, fun, direct to the point and just the right side of silly. It was nice to see Blaster written in his Budiansky style as well, Furman never really got a good handle on that back in the day.

It wasn't something you want to think about too hard (where are all the other Nucleon affected Autobots for starters) and it might have been nice if, just for once, the Mayhem's had actually succeed in killing someone, even a nobody like Silverbolt, but otherwise good job, well done.

Though tellingly it was an entirely self contained story. All the ongoing plots around it were marginally less of a struggle than usual but still felt pretty meh. The Spike/Prime stuff in particular doesn't really work because we're still none the wiser as to what happened when the Autobtos returned the Neo Knights to Earth and why they didn't deal with the Ark then. It makes it hard to take Spike's position seriously if there's a good chance Megatron's rampage is the direct result of him not telling anyone about the Ark when he had the chance.

After laying into his art a lot over the previous months, I also think Wildman went out (call me cynical, but I wouldn't be completely surprised if he doesn't come back for 100 if another good job offer comes along in the meantime) on a relative high as well. Whilst the bright colouring was still working against his battered and worn robots that final Galvdgeon page was lovely and on the whole the issue felt like he gave a **** for most of it.

Fully agreed with Mr. DH on the Magnus/Galvs fight. I still say if they were going to ignore Marvel UK and G2 they should have ignored them full stop. No cutsey references or shameless recycling, just tell a story that flows on from the American stuff. Which would actually be potentially more interesting for Galvatron as he'd be a virtual unknown, only really remembered for being joint inspiration (along with Xaaron) for the Transformers to take up arms against Unicron- I think anyone who'd know differently is pretty much dead.

This vague, mysterious almost mythical hero returning to Cybertron who turns out to actually really be Megatron is full of more potential than "I Ultra Magnus will fight you man I've officially never met before, yet I feel the strangest need to make direct quotes from comics that now didn't happen to me".

Ryan F
2013-06-15, 10:57 AM
I'm not actually buying the whole "UK stories don't count" thing when it comes to Regeneration One. I know Simon Furman said something to that effect on his website, but I wasn't entirely convinced.

There's a lot of American fans out there who've never read the UK comics, who may have been concerned that they would need to plough through 300 issues of UK backstory in order to fully appreciate RG1.

What's Furman going to say to that: "Yes, you have to read all the UK stuff to understand what's going on", or is he going to make a little white lie and try and rope in as many new readers as possible.

I think the most overt reference to the UK comics seen thus far is the Megatron / Starscream relationship. In the US comics their relationship isn't half as strained as it was in the UK.

The US didn't get The Enemy Within, or Target: 2006 - until Furman took over the US comics the only real sign of Starscream's ambitions to overthrow Megatron were in a few thought bubbles really early on (Issue 2 I think).

So Megatron's 'special punishment' for Starscream (i.e. making him a thinking zombie) only completely works in the context of the combined US-UK narrative. For the US readers, I'd guess Megatron's biggest enemy in the Decepticon ranks would probably be Shockwave, rather than Starscream.

Just a thought.

inflatable dalek
2013-06-15, 12:34 PM
I do think (and apologies if I've said this here before) Furman is going for an Ultimate Transformers style feel, not in the Marvel comics sense (where things are parred down to their bare essentials and updated for a modern audience) but in the 20 CD collections with names like Now That's What I Call Ultimate Rock Songs About A Dead Dog sense. He's trying to create a composite of just about everything he's ever done (not just Marvel, there's also plenty of Dreamwave and IDW ideas in there). Sort of going for a definitive, final statement on what he thinks Transformers is.

The real problem is, other than it being a bit needlessly confusing, is he's not doing a very good job of it overall and it instead feels like he's throwing as much shit at the wall as possible to see what sticks.

Cyberstrike nTo
2013-06-16, 01:44 PM
I'm not actually buying the whole "UK stories don't count" thing when it comes to Regeneration One. I know Simon Furman said something to that effect on his website, but I wasn't entirely convinced.

There's a lot of American fans out there who've never read the UK comics, who may have been concerned that they would need to plough through 300 issues of UK backstory in order to fully appreciate RG1.

What's Furman going to say to that: "Yes, you have to read all the UK stuff to understand what's going on", or is he going to make a little white lie and try and rope in as many new readers as possible.

I think the most overt reference to the UK comics seen thus far is the Megatron / Starscream relationship. In the US comics their relationship isn't half as strained as it was in the UK.

The US didn't get The Enemy Within, or Target: 2006 - until Furman took over the US comics the only real sign of Starscream's ambitions to overthrow Megatron were in a few thought bubbles really early on (Issue 2 I think).

So Megatron's 'special punishment' for Starscream (i.e. making him a thinking zombie) only completely works in the context of the combined US-UK narrative. For the US readers, I'd guess Megatron's biggest enemy in the Decepticon ranks would probably be Shockwave, rather than Starscream.

Just a thought.

Actually US readers have gotten a good chunk of the UK series from Titan and IDW reprint issues and TPBs.

Death's Head
2013-06-16, 01:46 PM
I'm not actually buying the whole "UK stories don't count" thing when it comes to Regeneration One. I know Simon Furman said something to that effect on his website, but I wasn't entirely convinced.

There's a lot of American fans out there who've never read the UK comics, who may have been concerned that they would need to plough through 300 issues of UK backstory in order to fully appreciate RG1.

What's Furman going to say to that: "Yes, you have to read all the UK stuff to understand what's going on", or is he going to make a little white lie and try and rope in as many new readers as possible.

I think the most overt reference to the UK comics seen thus far is the Megatron / Starscream relationship. In the US comics their relationship isn't half as strained as it was in the UK.

The US didn't get The Enemy Within, or Target: 2006 - until Furman took over the US comics the only real sign of Starscream's ambitions to overthrow Megatron were in a few thought bubbles really early on (Issue 2 I think).

So Megatron's 'special punishment' for Starscream (i.e. making him a thinking zombie) only completely works in the context of the combined US-UK narrative. For the US readers, I'd guess Megatron's biggest enemy in the Decepticon ranks would probably be Shockwave, rather than Starscream.

Just a thought.

Well he has explicitly contradicted his own stories by having Carnivac as a Decepticon (with a proper character model - sacrilege!) so I'll take him at face value when he says they don't count. Like ID says, though, it's all the little references like Auntie and the Robot Busters and the upcoming Galvy-Magnus brawl that make things all the more frustrating.

I don't buy this idea that American fans would be put off by including the UK material - he wasn't shy about referencing and including it back in the original US comic when he took over, and the stories have probably never been more accessible what with all the reprints and collections there have been over the years, not to mention we live in the age of the TF Wiki, when info on stuff you've never seen is never more than a few clicks away.

Regarding your last point re: the Starscream/Megs relationship - it reminds me of how Grimlock's ascension to responsible-if-gruff leader, not to mention his relationship with Prowl in the wake of Unicron's defeat post-#75 make little sense without the Earthforce stories there to show his development.

Oh, and the idea of Galvatron returning to Cybertron and being hailed as a saviour is just...too good, really. Better than what we'll get, I imagine...

inflatable dalek
2013-06-16, 06:47 PM
In fairness I suspect a lot of it is down to Furman himself beeing a bit fuzzy on what was and wasn't UK and US, which is understandable enough.

The daft thing is, it would take almost no rewriting to make the series work with the UK stuff. Change the members of the Wreckers and Mayhems, swap the odd line here and there. All nice and unobtrusive. No need to try and explain Earthforce (even the Wiki- which tries to treat all versions of the Fallen as the same character- just shrugs its shoulders at trying to make the B&W stuff fit), just do the same as most of Furman's original American run did, acknowledge without heavily referencing (Deathbringer aside).

Equally, it would take almost no rewriting to completely remove all the UK references. Instead of the Wreckers, say, have Kup's crew be Steelhaven survivors (who of course, would actually have a connection with Spike that would have made that work better). What we've got instead is the worst of all worlds.

Ryan F
2013-07-19, 05:05 PM
After last ish being a bit more impressive, we come back to Earth with a thud here.

Almost nothing happens to advance the plot. There's a scene where the Wreckers turn up, do nothing, miraculously survive a big explosion (again), and go home. In another scene, Prowl arrests Runamuck. The issue ends with Hot Rod about to meet Primus which is, erm, exactly where we left him last month. There's a whole bunch of padding here.

The only real plot advancement is the break-up of Galvatron and Starscream, and the revelation that Grimlock's body has survived and is being possessed. That's about four pages-worth of stuff happening, in a 22-page comic.

The fanboys will love it, because there's a cameo from Wingthing, and Alternators Rodimus, and a beloved year 2 Autobot gets killed. Factor 10 on the squee-scale.

Guidi's art is lovely - different from Wildman but still recognisably in the same RG1 house style. The drawing of Bludgeon's corpse is especially great (more than making up for his rather ropey Monstructor).

A few nice bits, but overall a bit of a drag.

inflatable dalek
2013-07-20, 01:06 PM
I think Guido deserves lots of credit for the art, I don't think anyone would have minded if he'd done his usual style (after all, he's not filling in this time, he's to all intents and purposes the new main artist) but here he's succesfully worked against his natural instincts and has come up with something that's like Wildman's very idiosyncratic work but doesn't feel like a rehash. And unlike Wildman's Reg work the fact he gives a **** makes all the difference.

As for the story, I've really no idea what to make of it. It's by no means a bad comic (unlike many of the earlier issues), it flows well enough, has some nice moments and there aren't too many obvious holes. But it's really hard to invest in it. I think the Magnus/Galvatron build up sums up why. It's entirely based on their history in the UK (and to a lesser extent the cartoon) complete whith cheeky Propeller Heads quote acknowledging this. But the truth is this Magnus and this Galvatron have never met before, and the former may never even heard of the later. This isn't the epic long delayed pay off to Time Wars, it's just two guys.

Red Dave Prime
2013-09-08, 08:42 AM
So, will this be worth getting as a trade? I hate downloading something I dont actually own so I haven't seen much from this bar previews - is it anygood or still just Furman rehashing much of what he had discarded for his initial idw run? I hear Monstroctor turns up in issue 94 to take on Omega Supreme (aint seen that before). Should I give it a pass?

inflatable dalek
2013-09-08, 08:10 PM
basically rehashing, it's harmless enough for me to see it through to the end but I really couldn't recommend it to anyone else. Issue 94 especially suffers from Star Trek Generations syndrome (where they tried so hard to not do the obvious they winded up showing why the choices they made weren't the obvious ones, because they were terrible ideas. In 94 it tries so hard to subvert expectations of a target: 2006 reworking that it just shows why the original choices were exactly the right ones).

I should probably start a 94 thread when I get a spare sec...

inflatable dalek
2013-09-18, 08:13 PM
Well it looks lovely, with especially big props to Jose Delbo for finally managing some decent art (helped by his bit being mainly about Buster and Jessie with the actual robots very much in the background). A good return for Jeff Anderson as well, despite his Hot Rod looking strangely flat.

It did however seem a bit of a waste to get Geoff Senior back and just have him draw a story he'd already done once... but with Hot Rod in it. Especially as it isn't his best work (to clarify: Geoff Senior on an off-day is still bloody brilliant, but it's not at the same level of brilliance as the original Deathbringer art).

And the plot.... well other than confirming Spike Witwicky really is a dick (which amused me no end. That's what, the fourth time some form of Marvel Spike has done the "I QUIT!" thing?) it was mostly meh. Hot Rod's meta moment of pointing out his Furman cliché narration was nonsense didn't really counter the fact his Furman cliché narration was nonsense and there were only about three moving the plot along things in there (the EVIL Matrix is still out there, Jhiaxus is not remembered by anyone and Hot Rod steals the Good Matrix from his own alternate dead body to become Rodimus Prime).

The rest was all rehashing (Deathbringer) or stuff we could infer (worryingly the Buster bit comes very close to meeting Terome's prediction that any Reg Annual would just be showing us how characters like Bomber Bill and Mozzarella Mike died horribly at the hands of Zombie Decepticons, except that would have been more fun).

Still, looked pretty though.


Oh wait, Buster is killed by Ratbat... in a carwash! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

figureofauthority84
2013-09-29, 04:37 PM
I don`t know about what any other person out there thinks about rg1,but in my opinion it`s awful,I tried giving it a chance,but with each new issue it sucks even more,Furman doesn`t know what he`s writing about anymore,he`s killed many good characters like megatron,ratchet,springer,and misfire.I`m sure there will be more,so in my opinion I`m glad the original marvel run ended with G2,any opinions or other thoughs on this out there?

StoneCold Skywarp
2013-09-29, 04:40 PM
News to me...guess it's technically in the right forum in that instance.

Look forward to this getting moved and then ripped apart.

Good luck.

Skyquake87
2013-09-29, 04:45 PM
There is a thread for this...

http://tfarchive.com/community/showthread.php?t=51930


... I tried a few issues, didn't like it so stopped reading it. I would agree that Furman is really off the boil as a writer though and Wildman clearly had no love for the series and there's just a big feeling of 'what's the point?' about it all.

figureofauthority84
2013-09-29, 05:05 PM
The thing is that Furman said that G2 was out the window,yet he`s using characters from G2 like jhiaxus and rook plus the warworld,can`t come up with something new can he?another thing is that he`s mixed the US version with the UK version,the US version was a straight shot as in the UK version it was a mind confusing ride with stories that did not match with the US marvel run,I think Furman is trying to finish two different versions of the transformers with one comic.

Denyer
2013-09-29, 08:47 PM
Furman's a jobbing writer with no particularly burning story to tell. Happy to let the Marvel material finish where it did, personally.

On the up-side, it's gotten us more Senior art.

Denyer
2013-09-29, 08:52 PM
Merged the threads due to the volume of discussion.

zigzagger
2013-09-29, 09:46 PM
Good idea :up:

Was thinking this earlier, but didn't want to step on anyone's toes. I don't exactly contribute much to ReGen discussion.

Terome
2013-09-30, 08:22 PM
I don't exactly contribute much to ReGen discussion.

Sadly, there's not much to say about it.

inflatable dalek
2013-10-24, 08:18 AM
Regeneration One 95... Well, of all the IDW issues with Guido Guidi drawn fights between Omega Supreme and Monstructor we've had in the last couple of years this was definitely in the top two.

Mean spirited joking aside, that was by far the best issue to date, mainly because (dodgy opening narration aside) it had no pretensions beyond big silly action scenes and it did all of them well, making for a comic that was actually fun in a good way (rather than fun in a watch-Wildman-and-Furman's-midlife-crisis-unfold way) throughout for the first time. It's probably not best to think to hard about the plot (that from nowhere Blaster/Soundwave rivalry certainly went nowhere), but it was endearingly daft.

Hey, the series has ended up in a sort of decent place and it's only taken till it's almost over to get there!

Red Dave Prime
2013-10-24, 06:42 PM
Last big arc coming up then isnt it? 5 issues to go.

Tempted to get the tpbs of this just for something to read.

inflatable dalek
2013-11-27, 09:11 PM
ISSUE 96:










Still a tendency to be a bit up its own arse (someone needs to stop Furman doing narration boxes, he makes Barber look restrained with them), but this continues the nice fluffy fun feeling of the last issue. It's nice to see that the book has firmly come down on the side of Spike being a massive cock as well.

Editorially though, who on Earth decided that having all the Transformers books on sale be about doom laden Jhiaxus related and potentially Cybertron destroying prophecies? Sucks to be someone who wants a bit of variety.

Terome
2013-11-27, 10:13 PM
Hey, I read this one. I thought it was pretty good! I stand by my assertion that the series should have started here - Rodimus Prime thinking, 'oh my, things went badly didn't they?' - cut to the aftermath of Bludgeon's last stand (which really didn't need any build up or evil rabbits), then catch up on the Optimus on Earth angle. That would have got people talking.

Might be too little too late or a side-effect of the stellar art or a judicious use of Grimlock* but this does feel like classic Marvel goodness again. Anyone with me or have I gone mad?

* Though I just realised he was quoting Thunderpunch for some reason.

Terome
2013-12-20, 04:06 PM
Number 97 was also a good read! Well blow me down. Sure, all its interesting ideas were picked out of Generation 2 save for the primordial ghetto but otherwise it gelled together nicely. I quite like Rodimus Prime as a born-again angry person because that does seem like a logical extension of Hot Rod getting too much power too quickly. I also like the idea that Jhiaxus has basically solved the problem of Primus vs Unicron by just building a very large tree fort.

The Starscream / Underbase thing is a bit tenuous but hey, at least Starscream gets to do something.

And Nightbeat and Bumblebee get to be affable, likeable fellows. Busy month for Nightbeat. And the Dinobots, for that matter.

Anybody else reading? I might be wrong about it being good, you know.

inflatable dalek
2013-12-20, 04:32 PM
i haven't had time yet, will get back to you. be warned, alcohol may be involved in my reading so my own viewpoint may be skewered.

Terome
2013-12-20, 06:04 PM
It recommends reading it in the way you describe on the cover.

inflatable dalek
2013-12-20, 08:13 PM
yep, that was fun. Hard to really say much more than that as it's still as shallow as a puddle and completely daft (those Nebulon scientists aren't the most observant are they? Considering what happened the last time some Headmasters were reunited with their heads you'd think they'd be more carefully observing things like swirling pools of EVIL in eyes the size of my bedroom), but it rattled along and had some decent action scenes and pretty much none of the pretentious stuff that's dragged the equally silly-good last few issues down.

Knightdramon
2014-01-05, 11:57 AM
Hmmm. Have got to re-iterate pretty much everything I've said for the series so far.

It reads a LOT better having read Marvel US.

The flaws still stand though--Furman does seem to recycle many of his abandoned concepts from the early IDW era and late G2 period. Wildman is too bored to draw a proper panel 60% of the time. There's more passion from the creators [as seen at that lengthy chat at autoassembly 2013 with the cover for 96] than the fans.

Some characters still do nothing, while others take too much prominence. Barring the underbase issues, Starscream is pretty much a non-entity in the US run. Shockwave is where the meat of the story is, comic-wise. Soundwave is again a non-entity in the US run, only gaining some spotlight with the ReGeneration run.

In restrospect, I loved issues 83-85 or so, with Megatron on Earth. That was a great story, but it does make you wonder why not a single Cybertronian thought of making contact with Fortress Maximus or Blackrock for 20 odd years.

Am I the only one [with the reveal of one of the covers of issue 100] that's extremely bored of the "slightly darker Optimus" being the villain/opponent, at least on the cover? Sadly this originated/carries on, depending on the writing, in the Dark Cybertron covers as well. MEH.

inflatable dalek
2014-03-25, 03:34 PM
IT NEVER ENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Oh wait, it did.

[Much of this comes from a conversation with Terome on Facebook and I am unashamed in stealing neat things he said which I pretty much could only respond to with "I wish I'd said that". And now I have, bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha]


After a distinct improvement for the first three issues of the Jhiaxus arc, things fell apart a bit at the end. Jhiaxus' defeat seemed a bit pat in the penultimate issue (and basically boiled down to the Wreckers being more capable than all the other Autobots put together, which seemed a bit egocentric on their creator's part), and issue 100 itself...


Well, good stuff first, this looked great. Special props to Wildman, this was his best art in years and he actually seemed to be invested for the first time in any of his modern TF comic work (as shown by the slightly odd introduction where he seemed to think the comic was about something profound. Fair enough if it helped him raise his game, but it does make you wonder how closely he actually read the scripts) resulting in some genuinely neat panels.

Senior was as awesome as ever, but he art seemed off in some way to me, slightly too cartooney maybe? Mind, not perfect Senior is still damned good so no real complaints.

And Guido, ah Guido. The only person involved in the whole series who unnervingly brought their A game to everything they did. Every one of his panels since he joined up has sung, and full props to the man for successfully coming up with work that fitted in with the established Wildman style but still felt very much its own beast.

The OK: I liked Grimlock going down in a non-fussy way, and him quoting the Touch is the sort of self referential joke that actually works, these things are best done as part of a silly big action scene rather than, say, when you're killing the lead character.

More on that in a second.

The bad:


OK, maybe I'm, just very thick, certainly that's the way IDW have been making me feel lately. Just after Shockwave's plan in Dark Cybertron has left me confused, the similar reality threatening shenanagans from the EVIL Matrix here has left me equally baffled. In particular, though the end goal is marginally more understandable than Shockwave's (in that, the EVIL Matrix was always basically evil for the sake of it so unlike the one eyed scientist you don't have to wonder what it's getting out of things) how it's being achieved was just odd. For example I genuinely have no idea what it actually needed Spike for.

What's really bad though is a large part of the issue is given over to exposition to try and make it seem like the plot makes sense. At least Dark Cybertron had enough sense to get that out the way before the final, presumably one hopes with the intent of that being just straight up fun action (well, let's hope anyway, Part 11 seemed to move in the right direction).

The recycling of old failed Furman ideas didn't help either. On the one hand we had the "Threat on Infinite Cybertrons" idea that was the first (rejected) pitch he made to IDW, on the other, the EVIL Matrix threatening to destroy reality that was his original intent for his take on the Dark Universe stuff (before AHM changed things so Optimus did have the Matrix all along so the Darkness, which otherwise acts exactly like an EVIL Matrix, was shoehorned in its place) thrown together with gay abandon so as to show you exactly why IDW decided to go in different (though not necessarily better sadly) directions the first time round.

What's especially poor though is the recycling of ideas from earlier Reg issues, Cybertron consumed by something that turns to population evil and has them fighting the unaffected remaining few? That was the basis of the whole Scorponok arc! It's handled in a marginally more interesting way here (at least visually), but it's rather piss poor all the same that Furman can't go two years into a planned out from the start maxi-series before repeating himself.

The worst bit though, and a strong contender for the worst thing Furman had ever written, was the death of Optimus. A scene intended to be the "Final" death for the main lead of the original series and the most iconic and well known Transformer of them all, is reduced to quoting Transformers the Movie because the writer can't think of anything original to give him to do?

I mean, that's the sort of crap Brad Mick used to do. Same for Andy Schmidt and, most recently, Flint Dille (who at least has the semi, though still flimsey, excuse he's trying to evoke his cartoon work). Why not throw an "I still function"? In there as well? having characters quote bits of the '86 film is the Universal sign for "The writer is a burnt out hack", and it's a shame Furman has fallen to that level.

it doesn't help it feels like the death was a bit of an afterthought as well, it wasn't initially completely clear the "Regular" Prime was one of the three and it just felt at the last second someone thought Prime should get some sort of last words, else he'd have just left killed by Fort Max in an equally off-hand way last issue.

Oh, and the attempted resolution the Magnus/Galvatron plot carried on all the problems of their previous encounter: They keep talking and acting as if they have this epic history when they in fact do not have an epic history, having never met each other before the events of this series. Trying to piggey back the UK versions' rivalry onto these different characters was just lazy and ineffectual.

It's as if Sherlock, instead of bothering to build up an antagonistic relationship between Holmes and Moriarty that culminated in their final battle, just jumped straight to the rooftop confrontation and relied on viewers memories of the Jeremy Brett TV series so as to fill in the blanks as to why they (and we) should care.

What was interesting about the end was how it tied in with that quote Terome found a few weeks ago that Hasbro want to homogenise the brand and make everything the same. So suddenly the Marvel continuity is the black cancer at the heart of "Proper" Transformers fiction and must die so those "better" (in the eyes of Hasbro execs), more recently approved Universes can carry on in their carefully coordinated way.

It didn't feel like a celebration of the Marvel continuity, it felt like burying it at the crossroads with a stake through the heart. Now, if that was one of the edicts Hasbro laid down so the series could happen then fair enough, that's something beyond Furman's control (and very little in the writing of Reg has felt hugely enthused, more a contractual obligation), but it doesn't make the final result a better read.

The shame of it is, there was probably a pretty decent ten (at most) issue series in here. Cut down a bit of Megatron on Earth, then bring Galvatron in as the main villain for the rest of the series (I think even the book's biggest fans would agree that Scorponok was something that just didn't need revisiting. If a revived Fort Max had to be part of the climax you could just have the EVIL Matrix do what it did with all the Prime's and grab one from another dimension), working for the EM all along in exchange for a promise of return to his own dimension. He does something under its guidance that starts turning the population of Cybertron evil, resulting in a pitched battle that is ultimately lost resulting in the planet being dark and covered in corpses out to get the few survivors as issue 100 starts with.

you could have had subplots on post-Megatron Earth (though with Spike as just a "Normal" post-op Headmaster rather than the mess we wound up with. His silly super powers barely contributed anything really, especially as whatever it was he was supposed to be doing at the end seemed to be more about strength of will than anything else) and with Hot Rod digging about underground and finding his True Destiny tm, but it would have been a far more focused series.

I'd also have still either firmly embraced it being part of the UK and G2 series as well (which really wouldn't have been that hard and would have dealt with some of the Magnus/Galvatron issues), or stuck firmly to the US series and the US series alone and not filled it with references, jokes and even attempted payoffs to those stories that just wound up being confusing to the hypothetical "Main audience" the book was supposedly aiming for.

I'd have either killed Prime off with Megatron or had him actually contribute something, anything really, other than making the villain's job easier by championing the Nebulos space bridge link, to the plot.

All in all though, whilst there were still nice moments, especially in the final arc, the climax can also work as well as a metaphor for Furman as much as anything else. Tired and worn out and of needing to be swept aside so the rest of the franchise can move on. It might move on in better directions, it might move on in worse (we've had a little of both from IDW's other books recently), but succeed or fail the newer writers will at least be trying.