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View Full Version : The Thirty Greatest Transformers Characters! [#1 revealed!]


Warcry
2014-01-16, 03:08 AM
One of the ideas that those of us on staff came up with for our 30th Anniversary celebration was a feature on the 30 greatest characters in Transformers fiction. But there's a problem -- you see, we're all a bunch of biased, crusty old hacks! If I came up with the list it would be 29 guys whose toys I owned as a kid plus Spinister, dalek's list would all be guys who showed up for a couple panels in the UK comics, Cliffy probably wouldn't make it past five before launching into a rant about how everything sucks, Blackjack would list Movie Bumblebee thirty times, etc, etc. And while all of those lists would definitely be hilarious, they probably wouldn't be very representative of what the fandom as a whole thinks.

So we decided: we'd turn the choices over to you instead. Yes, you.

From now until the end of February the site will be running a poll that allows visitors to nominate up to thirty of their favourites, and our top thirty characters will be made up of whichever characters get the most votes and highest average rankings in that poll.

But that's not all! If you take part you'll also get a chance to say why you like the character so much, and the comments we like the best will be quoted in our final articles.

Click here (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/) to cast your vote!

Thanks in advance to anyone who participates for doing our job for us. :)

Blackjack
2014-01-16, 07:02 AM
'This asshole?' :lol:

inflatable dalek
2014-01-16, 08:08 AM
I intend to vote for Megan Fox's bum 30 times.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-01-16, 08:26 AM
I intend to vote for Megan Fox's bum 30 times.

Vote. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Blackjack
2014-01-16, 09:04 AM
I have participated!

inflatable dalek
2014-01-16, 09:09 AM
Vote. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

The amount of times I vote a day I think I know what it means.

inflatable dalek
2014-01-16, 09:16 AM
Also, as this is all new to us, if anyone has any trouble with the voting/comments, do let us know and we'll try and fix it as quickly as possible.

Warcry
2014-01-16, 04:13 PM
Blackjack spotted an issue with the entry form. If you give long answers to all of the "Reason" fields you get a database error when you submit and your answers aren't saved. Somehow that slipped through our testing...I guess we just weren't wordy enough. :(

If this happens to you, you can...

(A) Hit the 'back' button on your browser to go back to the entry form. Then shorten some of your answers and try again.

OR

(B) Hit the 'back' button on your browser to go back to the entry form. Then just leave that tab open for a while, and resubmit once the problem has been fixed. I know what the issue is and should have it ironed out later today, once I get home from work.

Sorry for any inconvenience it might have caused.

Warcry
2014-01-17, 02:08 AM
*shakes fist in general direction of database*

The problem has been resolved. :)

Skyquake87
2014-01-29, 09:48 AM
I have submitted my entry! I've done one for each year! Because that's how I roll.

Found it hard to separate character from toys - so little of the modern toys have little to go on in terms of personality, so some of my submissions have had to sell themselves on the back of being a pretty cool toy and my impressions of what they are like :)

inflatable dalek
2014-02-24, 06:50 PM
Sent mine in, God, I am so predictable. Anyone in a black and white UK story got a vote, so if anyone who hasn't taken part yet wants to stop Irwin Spoon winning they have till Friday to get their votes in.

Denyer
2014-02-24, 07:55 PM
Mmm. I've found the piece of paper I started scribbling on a few weeks back. They're all pre-90s, although the reasons for choosing them aren't all.

Sades
2014-02-24, 08:32 PM
You forgot me, who would compile a list with thirty of the first ones that popped into my head, complete with half-assed yet compelling (or not) arguments for the choice. :(

I... might put together a list. Like, a real one. How long do we have? I aim to get it in as last-minute as I can. You can tell I pay no attention to the Staff forum anymore.

inflatable dalek
2014-02-24, 08:54 PM
How long do we have?

Friday.

Pay attention!

Blackjack
2014-02-24, 11:17 PM
Sent mine in, God, I am so predictable. Anyone in a black and white UK story got a vote, so if anyone who hasn't taken part yet wants to stop Irwin Spoon winning they have till Friday to get their votes in.

Even Longtooth? You have no taste.

inflatable dalek
2014-02-25, 08:56 PM
Especially Longtooth. I wrote his name in bold and underlined it.

Sades
2014-02-26, 09:29 AM
Especially Longtooth. I wrote his name in bold and underlined it.

I read this one!!!

inflatable dalek
2014-02-26, 03:57 PM
That's a joke I stole from my annual relisten of AIOTM <aiotm>, possibly the only joke I could have stolen from that series which would be suitable for a nice family friendly forum like this.


EDIT: And the last time I spoke to him on the subject, Warcry was mildly pleased that the number of votes so far was manageable for him, so if everyone does a last second spurt of voting to give him 1000's to deal with, we could break his mind. Which could be pretty entertaining in and of itself.

Denyer
2014-02-26, 04:55 PM
Even managed to throw in reasons for some of them, although that fell apart pretty quickly by halfway down the list.

Warcry
2014-02-26, 05:51 PM
EDIT: And the last time I spoke to him on the subject, Warcry was mildly pleased that the number of votes so far was manageable for him, so if everyone does a last second spurt of voting to give him 1000's to deal with, we could break his mind. Which could be pretty entertaining in and of itself.
I'm not going to complain if we get a last-minute surge of votes. Especially since the mysterious all-Flywheels ballots that we've gotten might skew the results a tad if people don't counterbalance it with votes for proper characters...

Longtooth votes will be disregarded, though. Sorry, dalek. :)

Cyberstrike nTo
2014-02-26, 10:44 PM
Sent mine in.

Cliffjumper
2014-02-27, 02:32 PM
That'll be the one that's three words long and still has the massive sig turned on then.

Hound
2014-02-27, 04:37 PM
It's in

Warcry
2014-02-27, 07:28 PM
We've had an awesome turnout so far, guys! but even with all the votes we've gotten the standings are still really tight in some places -- I'm pretty confident I could tell you who the top five will be, but the standings are so tight that I've got no clue what order they'll be in. And the last four or five spots on the list could be filled by any of about twenty different characters, because we've got a lot of characters bunched up with only one or two votes' difference between them.

So if you haven't voted yet, you absolutely should -- it's not hyperbole when I say that your vote may well decide whether or not your favourite guys make the list. :)

When all is said and done I think there'll be a few surprises for us all -- in who makes the list, but I think even moreso in who didn't.

Cliffjumper
2014-02-27, 07:47 PM
Anyone know if I've voted?

Warcry
2014-02-27, 07:50 PM
Yep, you definitely did. Possibly twice, if memory serves. :)

Cliffjumper
2014-02-27, 10:55 PM
YAY GO ME :) MAXIMUM THROTTLEBOTS!

(I have a terrible habit of opening tabs and pottering away at stuff in them over the course of a few days)

Denyer
2014-02-27, 11:27 PM
Windows 7 has been sufficiently better than XP I find I rarely need to restart the OS. Hibernates just fine.

it's not hyperbole when I say that your vote may well decide whether or not your favourite guys make the list. :)
As a good chunk of mine only ever really got a profile, there's very little chance... hoping the write-up digs into the the long tail of results a bit, I'm curious to see what other otherwise ignored and dispossessed characters stuck in people's heads and why.

Warcry
2014-02-28, 04:06 AM
Actually, just glancing quickly at your results...at least one character wouldn't be in the top thirty if you hadn't voted for him, and another one you voted for is one vote away from cracking the list.

I'll say this -- I'm floored by the breath of characters who've gotten votes. 296 characters have gotten at least one vote, and that number was actually higher before I rolled a few continuity-specific versions of characters up into "overall" categories because they'd only attracted one or two votes each. It just goes to show how diverse the fandom and its' interests have gotten over the years. :)

zigzagger
2014-02-28, 04:14 AM
I know I tossed in few of my choices on the fly a week or two back. Well, I think I did. I know I had thought about it.

Wanted to come back and add in a few more, but now I can't recall all of whom I voted for.

Sades
2014-02-28, 06:21 AM
YEAHHH, I DID IT.

I apologise.

It's in

That's what she said, HAR

Consecrated Prime
2014-02-28, 01:25 PM
I was cutting it very fine, but I managed to get my vote in -- though I didn't give a reason for all thirty characters. Four missed out because I couldn't think of anything to say about them. But I swear I like those guys. :lol:

Warcry
2014-02-28, 04:11 PM
No worries. The explanations are optional, not a requirement. Probably half of our voters didn't say anything at all, which is perfectly okay. :)

inflatable dalek
2014-02-28, 04:16 PM
Out of curiosity, roughly what percentage went for the full 30? I found it really hard to go the distance myself (and my rationales got progressively rubbisher and rubbisher).

Cliffjumper
2014-02-28, 04:30 PM
Out of curiosity, roughly what percentage went for the full 30? I found it really hard to go the distance myself (and my rationales got progressively rubbisher and rubbisher).

If I did two, I'd be surprised if more than a dozen made both lists. Some days I'm in a Wide Load mood, others I'm all about Searchlight.

TBH if there's not at least three Throttlebots on there it's all some sort of fix. Actually ridiculously excited to see the results; I'm sure if we all bombard Warcry with PMs it'll speed the whole process up. EVERYONE HAMMER THIS LINK (http://tfarchive.com/community/private.php?do=newpm&u=1756).

inflatable dalek
2014-02-28, 04:34 PM
Yeah, same here, some of my votes simply had to do with what stuff I've read/seen most recently and put the characters fresh in my mind, another week would lead to a completely different 30.

As I am with women, I am fickle when it comes to Transformers.

It's the last day folks (depending on what time zone you're in I suppose), so if you've been waiting till the last possible second, it is now!

Osku
2014-02-28, 04:50 PM
Yeah, same here, some of my votes simply had to do with what stuff I've read/seen most recently and put the characters fresh in my mind, another week would lead to a completely different 30.
About the same. Though it helps that you can browse the comic book shelf and see tha back covers of DVDs. :)

i did fill in the both boxes. Very shortly though.

Warcry
2014-02-28, 04:56 PM
Out of curiosity, roughly what percentage went for the full 30? I found it really hard to go the distance myself (and my rationales got progressively rubbisher and rubbisher).
I'm at work right now so I don't have the actual data in front of me, but a solid majority went for the full thirty. A good number of those seemed to run out of steam for the last five or so though, resulting in a lot of folks either giving up on the explanation side of things entirely or filling their last couple spots with admitted joke characters (no Wildfly votes, though :( ).

Thirty characters is a lot, so I'm not surprised that people had trouble filling up the whole sheet.

If I did two, I'd be surprised if more than a dozen made both lists. Some days I'm in a Wide Load mood, others I'm all about Searchlight.
Actually, I'm pretty sure both of your lists were basically the same and that's how I spotted it initially.

"There's no way two people would vote for all these assholes! Cliffy must have forgotten he did it the first time!"

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-02-28, 06:31 PM
Did you feel that? I just submitted. :smokin:

Cliffjumper
2014-02-28, 07:36 PM
Thirty characters is a lot, so I'm not surprised that people had trouble filling up the whole sheet.

I found it tricky from the point of view that the more TF media we get - especially G1 - the more likely it is that a character's going to be either done until everyone hates them (Grimlock), get stupid characterisation (Scorponok) or get tethered to an abysmal story (Nightbeat, Sunstreaker). I'm not going to vote for Ratchet in case this gets misconstrued as admitting Infiltration exists.

Plus TF fans are basically James Roberts, or at least want to be. Optimus Prime? Megatron? Bumblebee? Soundwave? Too mainstream, I honestly totally like this quasi-obscure guy who wasn't in the cartoon that often because it shows I know Transformers.

Osku
2014-02-28, 07:54 PM
I mentioned which version I meant. I don't care much about OP, but Marvel's Powermaster clone copied from floppy disc, fused with an organic lifeform, disintegrated by Swarm and reassembled again OP is a different thing. ;)

Sades
2014-02-28, 08:06 PM
I'm at work right now so I don't have the actual data in front of me, but a solid majority went for the full thirty. A good number of those seemed to run out of steam for the last five or so though, resulting in a lot of folks either giving up on the explanation side of things entirely or filling their last couple spots with admitted joke characters (no Wildfly votes, though :( ).

FYI, I was 100% serious when I voted for Roller.

Warcry
2014-02-28, 08:10 PM
I found it tricky from the point of view that the more TF media we get - especially G1 - the more likely it is that a character's going to be either done until everyone hates them (Grimlock), get stupid characterisation (Scorponok) or get tethered to an abysmal story (Nightbeat, Sunstreaker).
Really? I actually felt sort of the opposite. As the amount of fiction has grown, I find that characters who ten years ago really would have stood out are now looking like just one among many. There are so many characters in the "interesting but not super-important" category that guys like Nightbeat or Scorponok or Bludgeon, who definitely would have made a list like this in 2002, are lost among a sea of guys like Knock Out, Chromedome, Sentinel Prime, Hot Shot, Vector Prime, etc. Just having a personality isn't enough to make someone a shoe-in for me anymore.

The ones that I rated highest were characters who've had a sustained, enduring focus on them for long stretches of time. Inevitably that led to lots of BW characters and one or two Prime ones because of those shows' narrow casts, alongside old standbys like Prime, Starscream, Soundwave, etc.

I'm not going to vote for Ratchet in case this gets misconstrued as admitting Infiltration exists.
:lol:

My vote for Ratchet was mainly due to the Prime version, if that makes you feel better.

FYI, I was 100% serious when I voted for Roller.
He's actually a character in the comics now, so I'll just pretend you were voting for that. :)

Sades
2014-02-28, 08:20 PM
He's actually a character in the comics now, so I'll just pretend you were voting for that. :)

Ugh, that's what Hound told me last night. I was like "Ah, shit." :p

But... I meant cartoon Roller... c'mon, he was awesome. And INDESTRUCTIBLE!

Cliffjumper
2014-02-28, 08:37 PM
And INDESTRUCTIBLE!

So was everyone in the cartoon until the film. At which point Roller becomes a mindless corpse floating in subspace in a huge metal tomb.

Sades
2014-02-28, 08:40 PM
So was everyone in the cartoon until the film. At which point Roller becomes a mindless corpse floating in subspace in a huge metal tomb.

Which is pretty cool, amirite?

Brendocon 2.0
2014-02-28, 09:07 PM
Especially since the mysterious all-Flywheels ballots that we've gotten might skew the results a tad if people don't counterbalance it with votes for proper characters...

Oh shush. It's not like it was ALL Flywheels. It was 29 Flywheelses and Beast Wars Megs.

Alright I did that three times, but at least I sent in a proper one as well.

Which Firecon did I include? I forget.

inflatable dalek
2014-02-28, 09:39 PM
Surely any vote for non IDW Roller should automatically be counted as a vote for Optimus Prime as G1 Roller is officially... his penis or something. One third of his mind anyway.

Clay
2014-02-28, 09:56 PM
I still need to submit a vote.

Consecrated Prime
2014-03-01, 01:05 AM
(no Wildfly votes, though :( ).*cough, cough* :glance:

LKW
2014-03-01, 05:50 AM
I had a bad headache last night, when I'd planned to finish this - finalizing my order and writing my rationales right now. Hope I can make it in in time (it's still February until I go to sleep, right?)

tahukanuva
2014-03-01, 05:55 AM
Submitted mine a bit ago. I sorta lazied out towards the end (and only made it to 20, since most of my favorites are multiple Starscreams/Optimus's/etc that I lumped together) but I hope I at least made it a fun read.

Warcry
2014-03-01, 05:56 AM
Which Firecon did I include? I forget.
You picked the right one, don't you worry.

*cough, cough* :glance:
Really? Good man! I'd shake your hand but you probably live in a different country.

I had a bad headache last night, when I'd planned to finish this - finalizing my order and writing my rationales right now. Hope I can make it in in time (it's still February until I go to sleep, right?)
I won't shut it down until I get up tomorrow, which probably gives you (and anyone else still thinking of doing it) another ten or twelve hours. :)

LKW
2014-03-01, 06:00 AM
Thank you, sir - that's a relief to know :clap: >Back to plugging away<

inflatable dalek
2014-03-01, 09:25 AM
I found it tricky from the point of view that the more TF media we get - especially G1 - the more likely it is that a character's going to be either done until everyone hates them (Grimlock), get stupid characterisation (Scorponok) or get tethered to an abysmal story (Nightbeat, Sunstreaker). I'm not going to vote for Ratchet in case this gets misconstrued as admitting Infiltration exists.

Yeah, a couple of mine (shockwave) would have placed much higher if the stories where they'd been handled badly hadn't started to outweigh the ones where they'd been done good. Generally though I went with "Well, I really do love Prowl enough to forgive the whole Prowlestator thing".

Though you realise your Throtlebots vote will be mainly for that episode of Headmasters where a meteorite makes them jive to death?

Looking back, I was surprised how many of times my reason given was a variation on the character being "Sensible/pragmatic/practical", I voted like a Granddad. :(

Blackjack
2014-03-01, 02:47 PM
(no Wildfly votes, though :( )

Didn't I vote a Wildfly too? Or did I swap it out for a different joke vote?

Cyberstrike nTo
2014-03-01, 04:12 PM
That'll be the one that's three words long and still has the massive sig turned on then.

Cute. real cute Cliffjumper. :p

Warcry
2014-03-01, 05:15 PM
If anyone is still looking to fill this out, you've got about half an hour before I shut it down. :)

Didn't I vote a Wildfly too? Or did I swap it out for a different joke vote?
No, but you insulted the poor guy in your vote for Misfire or someone.

Blackjack
2014-03-02, 09:01 AM
No, but you insulted the poor guy in your vote for Misfire or someone.

Totally sounds like what I would do, yeah. :p

inflatable dalek
2014-03-03, 04:38 PM
The results are in, and contain some complete surprises.


And an almost complete absence of Throtlebots.

Watch this space over the next few months...

Blackjack
2014-03-04, 02:08 PM
"Almost" means there is hope!

Go Searchlight go go go!

Warcry
2014-03-10, 12:38 AM
Here is the first batch of results!

#30: Swerve (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/30_Swerve.php)

#29: Movie Bumblebee (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/29_Bumblebee.php)

#28: Beast Wars Silverbolt (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/28_Silverbolt.php)

#27: Impactor (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/27_Impactor.php)

#26: Ravage (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/26_Ravage.php)

A strange selection, to my mind. I can't say that any of them aren't deserving, but a few of them were a bit of a surprise. At least, to me. And I love that! :)

We'll be revealing #21-25 next weekend, so keep your eyes on this space if you're curious!

inflatable dalek
2014-03-10, 04:42 PM
What's interesting is that Impactor got on there when various other, arguably more obvious, Marvel created characters didn't (but which did and didn't and which came close is just something you'll have to wait and see on), I guess that just shows the impact of LSOTW.

Of those, Silverbolt is probably the biggest surprise to me, of the five he's the only one who hasn't done anything recently so as to keep him fresh in voters minds, and you don't ever seem to see much conversation about him on forums. I guess he's just a character people generally love without feeling the need to show it much?

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-10, 05:10 PM
What's interesting is that Impactor got on there when various other, arguably more obvious, Marvel created characters didn't (but which did and didn't and which came close is just something you'll have to wait and see on), I guess that just shows the impact of LSOTW.

Of those, Silverbolt is probably the biggest surprise to me, of the five he's the only one who hasn't done anything recently so as to keep him fresh in voters minds, and you don't ever seem to see much conversation about him on forums. I guess he's just a character people generally love without feeling the need to show it much?

LSOTW??? Piffle. Target:2006 and the one where he is a zombie, dear boy. :)

inflatable dalek
2014-03-10, 05:13 PM
Try telling Piano Bot being in Target: 2006 was all you needed.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-10, 05:22 PM
Poop. Did Piano Bot not make the list? That's a vote wasted. :(

Seriously though, I think LSOTW added a nice hard layer of not giving a shanix about anything but getting the job done to Impactor's character ("Turn off your pain circuits.", "I can't.", "Oh well. <BLAM>."), but the heroic core of the character certainly lies in the original comic. He was a legend before he ever went to Garrus-9. YMMV, natch.

Blackjack
2014-03-10, 05:23 PM
Impactor is awesome not because of Target 2006 or LSOTW or Wreckers or any of those things.

It's the freaking harpoon hand.

inflatable dalek
2014-03-10, 05:26 PM
Oh sure, it's all there in the original comics of course, but I do think that without LSOTW bringing him to a wider audience (well, the wider American audience of people likely to vote in this poll, obviously the original UK comic was read by many, many more people but most of them don't hang round here. The fools) he'd have not made the list.

But then, I can say that with the confidence of knowing who out of his contemporaries didn't make the list that should have if the feckless idiots who took part in this had any sense.

Did I mention most of my votes didn't make the top 30? It's like I'm some of aberrant freak or something.

Blackjack
2014-03-10, 05:32 PM
I knew of Impactor because IDW reprinted Target 2006. Titan also reprinted that bunch of issues with the Wreckers. And there was a pack-in comic included with my Roadbuster-Dirge set back in 2008's Universe. Audience is reached. Though I'm not American so, eh.

See, dalek, you should've voted for Movie Bumblebee. ;)

inflatable dalek
2014-03-10, 05:33 PM
See, dalek, you should've voted for Movie Bumblebee. ;)

You even quoted me in the piece! Is Sades spreading her lack of attention paying amongst the rest of you?

Warcry
2014-03-10, 05:36 PM
I voted for piano-bot! :(

(Not really)

What's interesting is that Impactor got on there when various other, arguably more obvious, Marvel created characters didn't (but which did and didn't and which came close is just something you'll have to wait and see on), I guess that just shows the impact of LSOTW.
Honestly, I'm not sure I could argue that many Marvel-created characters rank higher on the aware-o-meter than Impactor. Scrounge was only in one issue, as well-remembered as it is, and while Straxus showed up a few more times (especially in the UK) he's more a meme than an actual character. Xaaron and Jhiaxus both have more appearances to their names, but in terms of fandom discussion and popularity they both seem to be about even with Impactor. I think Jhiaxus used to be the most popular and well-known of the bunch, but I'd argue that his lukewarm IDW incarnation has dragged down the popularity of his G2 self so that it's on par with the other two.

All of these guys got votes and some might even be higher up the list, but none of them ever really struck me as "belonging" more than Impactor does. :)

(I agree that Impactor wouldn't be here without the IDW-inspired boost, BTW)

What intrigues me is the attitude that Blackjack shows towards G1 Bumblebee. I've seen the same dismissive tone used by younger fans before, and it's hard not to think that it's the same way that older fans reacted to the annoying kid-appeal characters in the Unicron Trilogy. The difference is that the (admittedly, often flat) G1 Bumblebee existed before the more consistently characterized Movie Bumblebee, so while it's easy to forget Energon Ironhide ever existed both versions of Bumblebee are going to have their fans.

Thankfully Hasbro seem to be doing their best to keep both in circulation, which should keep the dicussions around Bumblebee from getting quite as fractious as the ones the DC fandom has about Green Lanterns or Flashes. :)

Blackjack
2014-03-10, 05:36 PM
You even quoted me in the piece! Is Sades spreading her lack of attention paying amongst the rest of you?

We all work for Sades now.

inflatable dalek
2014-03-10, 05:43 PM
I think the most obvious Marvel character missing is one who very nearly made the top 30 but couldn't quite manage it despite having a new awareness raising comic coming out during the voting period. Though obviously I won't spoil who this mysterious and unguessable omission is, that'd ruin it, yes?

Though that was one I voted for, showing my taste is just better than the rest of you.

Blackjack
2014-03-10, 05:43 PM
I voted for piano-bot! :(

You probably voted for Wildfly though didn't you.

Scrounge was only in one issue, as well-remembered as it is

Scrounge's death makes me all sad inside all the time. He just wants to be useful. :(

Xaaron and Jhiaxus both have more appearances to their names, but in terms of fandom discussion and popularity they both seem to be about even with Impactor. I think Jhiaxus used to be the most popular of the bunch, but I'd argue that his lukewarm IDW incarnation has dragged down the popularity of his G2 self so that it's on par with the other two.

You can't really talk about Xaaron without mentioning Impactor, and when the choice comes between the wily old buzzard and the hardcore bastard that died twice to save the world (and did I mention he has a harpoon for a hand) it's not much of a choice.

And IDW turned Jhiaxus into from a cultured warrior struggling with base instincts into freaking Doctor Frankenstein.

What intrigues me is the attitude that Blackjack shows towards G1 Bumblebee. I've seen the same dismissive tone used by younger fans before, and it's hard not to think that it's the same way that older fans reacted to the annoying kid-appeal characters in the Unicron Trilogy. The difference is that the (admittedly, often flat) G1 Bumblebee existed before the more consistently characterized Movie Bumblebee, so while it's easy to forget Energon Ironhide ever existed both versions of Bumblebee are going to have their fans.

But seriously, though, G1 Bumblebee? I get the love for Ratchet and Jazz and Optimus and Starscream and everything, they are interesting at some point, but the only time Bumblebee was ever in an interesting story was when he was not Bumblebee and was called Goldbug. Sure, he's always around, he's always doing things and despite my rants in the article I don't hate him... but it's hard to really make me like Bumblebee over, say, Bluestreak or Hound or Wheeljack or any other Autobot that appears and does stuff.

Plus like Jhiaxus IDW has recently botched Bumblebee from 'flat child appeal character' to 'guy who can't decide what to do' is certainly not a popular decision with me.

Thankfully Hasbro seem to be doing their best to keep both in circulation, which should keep the dicussions around Bumblebee from getting quite as fractious as the ones the DC fandom has about Green Lanterns or Flashes. :)

Pfft, we all know the best Green Lantern is Mojo the Living Planet.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-10, 06:54 PM
I think the most obvious Marvel character missing is one who very nearly made the top 30 but couldn't quite manage it despite having a new awareness raising comic coming out during the voting period. Though obviously I won't spoil who this mysterious and unguessable omission is, that'd ruin it, yes?

Though that was one I voted for, showing my taste is just better than the rest of you.

Darn. Really? Really?? :(

Wish I'd voted for him twice, yes? I demand a recount. Y'know, just to keep the peace (in a freelance kind've way).

You even quoted me in the piece! Is Sades spreading her lack of attention paying amongst the rest of you?

Hmmm? Is there anybody there? Thought I heard someone... Hello? Guess not. Ng. Must've just been the wind.

Brendocon 2.0
2014-03-10, 08:18 PM
What a crock. You all suck.

And screw a random chapter of Revolutionary Yawn. He was a major supporting character in the arc of Iron Man that was on sale while IM3 was in cinemas. If that doesn't raise his profile nothing can.

Bah humbug.

All Hail Banzai-Tron.

Skyquake87
2014-03-11, 08:44 AM
A good read so far. I was surprised by Silverbolt's showing in all honesty. And I liked that :) I think is going to be a very interesting run down.

I can see why DH didn't make the list, although he appeared in Transformers, Death's Head is not a transformer - so he's out of the running on a technicality!

....unless this was supposed to be more inclusive and include all the characters that appeared in Transformers and I've misread the brief...!

inflatable dalek
2014-03-11, 08:55 AM
It was indeed open to any character who has appeared in TF fiction regardless of species and there is one non-Cybertronian on the list.

I'm not going to reveal now that it is indeed Megan Fox's bum though.

Skyquake87
2014-03-11, 08:56 AM
well, balls.


I could have voted for Sari...!

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-11, 09:07 AM
It was indeed open to any character who has appeared in TF fiction regardless of species and there is one non-Cybertronian on the list.

I'm not going to reveal now that it is indeed Megan Fox's bum though.

Walter Barnett FTW! :clap:

inflatable dalek
2014-03-12, 03:47 PM
Well, now you've ruined the winner.

Blackjack
2014-03-12, 03:56 PM
SHUSH DALEK GOD DAMN IT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO LEAVE IT A SURPRISE

Warcry
2014-03-16, 05:17 AM
The next five characters on the list have been posted!

25: Wheeljack (http://tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/25_Wheeljack.php)
24: Blackarachnia (http://tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/24_Blackarachnia.php)
23: Blaster (http://tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/23_Blaster.php)
22: Unicron (http://tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/22_Unicron.php)
21: Cyclonus (http://tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/21_Cyclonus.php)

Okay, you guys surprised me on this one. I didn't see Wheeljack coming at all. :)

Blackjack
2014-03-16, 05:41 AM
CYCLONUS BEAT UNICRON

CYCLONUS BEAT UNICRON

WHOOOOOOOOOOO

inflatable dalek
2014-03-16, 08:00 PM
I would like to apologise to followers of The Sphinx for suggesting he's fictional.


[You can tell I've rewatched Someone Likes yoghurt recently as that bit totally riffs on the preamble to the now outdated gag as to the real answer to the riddle of the Sphinx, "What walks on four legs in the morning, two legs in the afternoon and three legs in the evening? Paul McCartney and his wives"]

Wheeljack really is an odd one, presumably he's another like Silverbolt with a large but mostly mute fanbase.

I must say, I was never a huge fan of Harry Mudd's work on Cyclonus, it was always very all over the place to my ears. I mean, he only has two lines in the film (though I never realised this until I listened to the DVD commentary as both times the animators have framed the shot so as to make it look like Scourge is talking) and he sounds completely different both times.

And only the second "The Autobots have been terminated" one comes close to sounding how he did most of the time in the show (and as they started recording on season 3 before doing so for the film it's not as even if he had inexperience with the character to call on). The "You want me to gut Ultra Magnus?" delivery sounds a lot more guttural.

Brendocon 2.0
2014-03-17, 12:05 AM
Unicron is eligible? Does that mean other plot devices like the Magnificence, Vector Sigma and Shia Labeouf were also eligible?

Is it too late for me to recast my votes?

another tf fan
2014-03-17, 06:54 AM
...Hey... I got a mention in #29 Movie Bumblebee. Alright!

Warcry
2014-03-17, 05:12 PM
I would like to apologise to followers of The Sphinx for suggesting he's fictional.
You'd better. The Sphinx is merciless!

I must say, I was never a huge fan of Harry Mudd's work on Cyclonus, it was always very all over the place to my ears. I mean, he only has two lines in the film (though I never realised this until I listened to the DVD commentary as both times the animators have framed the shot so as to make it look like Scourge is talking) and he sounds completely different both times.

And only the second "The Autobots have been terminated" one comes close to sounding how he did most of the time in the show (and as they started recording on season 3 before doing so for the film it's not as even if he had inexperience with the character to call on). The "You want me to gut Ultra Magnus?" delivery sounds a lot more guttural.
The what now? That was supposed to be Cyclonus speaking? I'm pretty sure Scourge's lips even move for one of those lines.

My childhood has now been shattered.

Unicron is eligible? Does that mean other plot devices like the Magnificence, Vector Sigma and Shia Labeouf were also eligible?
I was pulling for the o-parts personally, but no luck. :(

Is it too late for me to recast my votes?
You say that like we wouldn't just get another ballot with 29 Flywheelses on it...

inflatable dalek
2014-03-17, 09:06 PM
Votes for Vector Sigma would probably have just been counted as votes for Primus for the sake of simplicity.


The what now? That was supposed to be Cyclonus speaking? I'm pretty sure Scourge's lips even move for one of those lines.

My childhood has now been shattered

This is according to Chris McFeely on the commentary, he's as puzzled by the direction as you and I (I don't think Scourge's lips move either time though). You can sort of tell it's Carmel on the second like, but even then it's not completely Cyclonus-ey. Scourge is actually the one who really gets screwed over, only having one line in the whole film.

Hey, maybe Galvatron was actually riding Armada, that's why the voice doesn't sound like Cyclonus!

Sades
2014-03-18, 07:00 AM
the staff are all secretly Unicron worshippers. We have the little helmets and everything.

I never got my helmet... :(

I honestly thought Wheeljack was going to do better. He da bomb. And I am da late 90's.

inflatable dalek
2014-03-18, 08:11 PM
I never got my helmet... :(

When you selected your free gift from the Mod Membership Form you ticked "Hound" rather than "Hat".

I honestly thought Wheeljack was going to do better. He da bomb. And I am da late 90's.


He's probably been helped by a decent showing recently, but before RID it was probably 25 years since he last did anything memorable, and that was mainly things blowing up in his face.

Still, it's the ears.

Blackjack
2014-03-19, 03:41 PM
When you selected your free gift from the Mod Membership Form you ticked "Hound" rather than "Hat".

I never got the Mod Membership Form!

I want a free gift!

inflatable dalek
2014-03-19, 04:47 PM
Hound has already gone though. The remaining options are the hat and Denyer's brain in a jar.

Warcry
2014-03-19, 07:54 PM
The jar will need an internet connection and room to store third-party Dinobots, though. :)

Sades
2014-03-19, 10:07 PM
When you selected your free gift from the Mod Membership Form you ticked "Hound" rather than "Hat"

He wasn't free! He spent a year here on a visitor's Visa playing Solitaire and watching Dragonball Z while waiting for his permanent residence to go through so he could work. We ate a lot of Mac and Cheese that year.

How many other people voted for Megan Fox's bum?

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-20, 08:05 AM
How many people didn't? ;)

Sades
2014-03-20, 11:07 PM
It hasn't shown up yet, that's got to be a good sign, right?

*crosses fingers, toes and eyes*

C'mon, Megan Fox's bum...!

LKW
2014-03-23, 02:11 AM
It's been a great read so far - everybody is giving great respect and insight into the characters, while still having fun (and the occasional blasphemy...;)) While I've seen the majority of Beast Wars, I'm learning new things about those guys, as well.

I also learned that, while working into the overnight hours finishing my entry, I forgot to put my name on the thing :o...

But, it was a very nice way to find out, seeing that something I wrote was selected for one or two of these articles, so :) And it's been just as enjoyable reading the insightful and/or funny quotes from the other entrants, and reading entries that give me, for instance, new appreciation for all facets of Cyclonus, make me think that I should've voted for Impactor, or made me relaize that Movie Bumblebee might just be Pikachu.

Warcry
2014-03-24, 12:03 AM
C'mon, Megan Fox's bum...!
I hate to break it to you, but Megan Fox and her various body parts aren't characters. They're cast. Now if you'd voted for Michaela's bum... :glance:

But, it was a very nice way to find out, seeing that something I wrote was selected for one or two of these articles, so :) And it's been just as enjoyable reading the insightful and/or funny quotes from the other entrants, and reading entries that give me, for instance, new appreciation for all facets of Cyclonus, make me think that I should've voted for Impactor, or made me relaize that Movie Bumblebee might just be Pikachu.
Glad to hear it! That's what we were hoping these articles would do, in the end: remind all of us just why some of these characters are so popular. It's easy to lose sight of that sometimes, especially since the modern interpretations of these guys are usually what's fresh to mind and sometimes...well, sometimes the modern interpretations aren't very good. :(

That last statement is, sadly, quite applicable to at least a couple characters on this week's list.

20: Scorponok (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/20_Scorponok.php)
19: Galvatron (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/19_Galvatron.php)
18: Ultra Magnus (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/18_Ultra_Magnus.php)
17: G1 Bumblebee (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/17_Bumblebee.php) (suck it, Blackjack :) )
16: Waspinator (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/16_Waspinator.php)

another tf fan
2014-03-24, 04:13 AM
Hey hey hey I got another Pull Quote.
(G1 Bumblebee)

inflatable dalek
2014-03-24, 05:34 PM
I should point out the Bumblebee piece was written before this week's Dark Cybertron dealt nice and decisively with a lot of my problems with IDW Bumblebee.

Out of curiosity, if there anyone who really likes the take on Leader Bumblebee we've had for the last four years? Is there a silent majority out there who actually quite like it? Otherwise, the way it has been kept up so resolutely seems really odd.

Terome
2014-03-25, 12:31 AM
It's a slightly interesting idea on its surface - 'the least likely is the most dangerous' and all. Frankly it would have played far better if we'd not seen most of it. Prowl's slightly condescending mention of Bumblebee at the end of Last Stand of the Wreckers told of a relationship with a lot more substance than the one we actually read about. And, as told very well in the article, you can only have the underdog 'step up to the plate' the one time for it to make any sense.

I did quite like the idea that he had a barely-concealed tendency towards brutality though. Him sensibly calling for Megatron's execution, blowing up Horri-Bull and being on the verge of exiling Prime are all great character beats that got lost in the soup of dullness. He was the Cybertronian LBJ except when he wasn't.

Blackjack
2014-03-25, 12:54 AM
Nope, not at all.

because Warcry did Leader Bumblebee so much better in one chapter of his fanfiction, whereas Leader Bumblebee has been with us for, what, three years now and still is a rather insufferable prick all around? And he keeps masquerading as Goldbug and Movie Bumblebee all throughout?

Warcry
2014-03-30, 03:41 PM
Out of curiosity, if there anyone who really likes the take on Leader Bumblebee we've had for the last four years? Is there a silent majority out there who actually quite like it? Otherwise, the way it has been kept up so resolutely seems really odd.
I very much liked the idea of it, but the execution was a mess from beginning to end.

I think the insistence on keeping him in that role probably had something to do with Hasbro's desire to see Bumblebee slotted in as the #2 Autobot in the comics the way he is in the movies and toylines. It's never really made sense to me though, because G1 Bee and Moviebee are very different characters and I really don't see how the popularity of a badass rude mute is going to translate into people buying comics starring a ineffectual friendly nice guy just because they share a name. It would have made much more sense to me to actually introduce a G1ified version of Moviebee to the comics if they wanted to ride on his coattails. Just rename G1 Bee "Goldbug" and roll with it.

I'm still amazed they let IDW kill him off though, even temporarily.

Anyway, here's this week's list!

15: Rattrap (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/15_Rattrap.php)
14: Jazz (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/14_Jazz.php)
13: Prowl (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/13_Prowl.php)
12: Shockwave (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/12_Shockwave.php)
11: Ratchet (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/11_Ratchet.php)

For the top ten, we'll be doing something a bit different. In order to put a bit more attention on each of the selections, we'll be posting one per day for the first ten days in April.

Blackjack
2014-03-30, 04:14 PM
I think the insistence on keeping him in that role probably had something to do with Hasbro's desire to see Bumblebee slotted in as the #2 Autobot in the comics the way he is in the movies and toylines. It's never really made sense to me though, because G1 Bee and Moviebee are very different characters and I really don't see how the popularity of a badass rude mute is going to translate into people buying comics starring a ineffectual friendly nice guy just because they share a name.

Plus Movie Bumblebee was never a leader nor a philosopher anyway, he was just a friendly car and a cute mute thing and a murderer of Decepticons. Not exactly leader material... or even the second-in-command in the movies. The rank (nominally) went to Jazz in the first movie until he died and is seemingly held by Ironhide (he was barking orders and all in ROTF) until he died. Not that the Movie Autobots have much of a ranking system, mind.

The two Bumblebees don't exactly have anything in common with each other beyond 'good friends with a human' (which, I must note, is something IDW Bumblebee is lacking since Ratchet is the one who made friends with the Onion Squad, and later the Wreckers) and 'turn into a yellow car'.

Plus leader Bumblebee was kind of... pathetic, isn't he? In his four-issue debut he was an insufferably naive idiot that randomly spouts a 'I must sacrifice myself' Messiah complex near the end. Throughout the Costa run he alternates between trying his hardest to be different and working together with Optimus Prime and generally taking the piss because no one respects him and yet everyone considers him leader and generally being overshadowed, since Rodimus was a far more interesting quasi-leader figure in the Costa run despite his terrible start.

RID did the smart thing and removed Prime out of the picture, but Bumblebee again was relegated into the ineffective frustrated nice-guy leader who no one appreciates... and it's generally such a mess and he turned into more of a plot device for Metalhawk, Starscream and Prowl to bounce dialogue off and out of the 'leaders' of the RID society was actually the least interesting.

Eh, my two cents.

It would have made much more sense to me to actually introduce a G1ified version of Moviebee to the comics if they wanted to ride on his coattails. Just rename G1 Bee "Goldbug" and roll with it.

Yeah, but will the fans be happy with it? I know I will since G1 Bumblebee will always be Goldbug first and Bumblebee second, and Bumblebee will always be Moviebee first and Geewunbee second, but it's not like the main fandom would be happy if G1 Bumblebee suddenly got changed just to let Moviebee ride his popularity wave.

As our poll shows, G1 Bumblebee is still held in higher esteem by the majority of our fandom (and you are all wrong ;)) and, well... IDW wouldn't even turn Bumblebee into Goldbug even when he's walking around in that Goldbug-Goldfire body thing.

-ahem-

Enough Bumblebee talk and more about this week's five characters!

Rattrap is actually an extremely pleasant surprise. While I am all rooting for Beast Wars, I never would've bet on him anywhere near top thirty, let alone top fifteen... and beating Silverbolt and the generally fan-favourite Waspinator in the process! (I could list the rest of the cast that Rattrap beat, but then I'd spoil the surprise that Inferno got third place) He does deserve the spot, though.

Jazz is awesome. He's awesome and that's why he's on the list.

Winning by a 0.9% margin, though, we have finally settled the debate on whether Jazz or Prowl is more awesome. And holy shit is that a slim margin! Extremely happy to see Prowl in the list though it's kind of *drumroll* logical. Kind of bummed out that neither Prowl, Shockwave nor Ratchet are in the top ten, really... though you guys will be surprised by who got into the top ten. (*cough*Inferno*cough*)

Believe have said enough about both Prowl and Shockwave in their respective articles, but Ratchet! Ratchet beat them both! And I absolutely love Ratchet, so I don't mind at all! And I do love the fact that everyone has something different to say about Ratchet (instead of the shit-ton of variations of 'it's only logical' or 'SPOCK SPOCK SPOCK' comments I was handed while writing Shockwave). Viva Ratchet!

(True fact: After the ROTF Forest Fight the reason Megatron retreated was because Ratchet suddenly showed up and he pissed his pants)

(The only reason Beast Wars Megatron can be so successful is that there isn't a Ratchet to oppose him there)

Side-note: 'Warrior School' was the first-ever G1 material I have ever read. I think if it didn't star Ratchet and Megatron (whose names I recognized from the Movie) I wouldn't be as impressed with the G1 continuity as I am now.

inflatable dalek
2014-03-30, 07:58 PM
Ratchet has the great advantage that every single writer who has given him something to do has done it well, whilst the "Just sort of there" versions (cartoon, Movie) are harmless enough and don't take anything away from the character.

He's probably the most consistently written Transformer of them all.

tahukanuva
2014-03-30, 09:55 PM
Every new group of these makes me feel even more like I filled mine out wrong. There're a lot of great characters on this list and very few that I voted for.

I forgot to vote for Jazz! I love Jazz! (I'm pretty sure I forgot Prowl, too. Like, geeze.)

zigzagger
2014-03-31, 04:56 AM
I do love how Shockwave's article -- which discusses 'The New Order' story arc, complete with image of Shockers striding through his gallery of Autobot cadavers -- precedes Ratchet's article, which discusses the continuation of that storyline where Ratchet saves said Autobot cadavers.

Happy little coincidence. Gives it a nifty sense of continuity.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-31, 07:23 AM
Well, well, well. I'd never have guessed that Prowl and Ratchet would be outside the top ten. Genuinely surprised, particularly about Ratchet. There must be some left field choices in the top ten, imo. Either that, or multiple iterations of the same character (which would perhaps be a bit if a shame). I hope we don't have an Erector situation! Can we post predictions, or would that be annoying?

Loving this feature so far...

Blackjack
2014-03-31, 08:51 AM
There must be some left field choices in the top ten, imo.

A couple that surprised me, yeah. The fact that Prowl, Shockwave, Jazz and especially Ratchet didn't make it into the top ten...

I hope we don't have an Erector situation!

It's not Erector, I can tell you that...

Can we post predictions, or would that be annoying?

Oh, you can. ;)

Really, you'll be surprised by who didn't make the list. And every other major character that didn't make the list are ranked lower than Swerve and Movie Bumblebee. ;)

Auntie Slag
2014-03-31, 10:35 AM
I reckon it's got to be skewed to the popular characters of now, as in the movie (mainly) books and games. So that must mean Starscream, Prime, Megatron, Ironhide and Grimlock as definites, then Soundwave as the cool cassette guy with the voice (that's a phrase I've seen plenty of times elsewhere)... and perhaps Blugeon... Hot Rod because of the '86 movie and Galvatron for his comic and cartoon appearances.

I think generally when you get best of lists like this, its those outside the Top 10 that are the interesting ones. Its like when VH1 used to do 'best music videos of all time' lists, the Top 10 was predictable: Peter Gabriels' Sledgehammer would always be in there and a-ha's Take on Me would usually be in the No.1 spot.

I'd love to have something odd in the Top 10 like Chromedome or Blades, but most characters got no love in the comics or cartoons because there were so many damn toys with identikit heroic personalities (what's the difference between Hotspot and Sideswipe?) That's why I like the modern comics, even though there's still toys to promote, some characters get layers of development.

I remember how happy I was seeing who comprised the team of Firestormers in issue 1 of G2...

Blackjack
2014-03-31, 11:34 AM
I reckon it's got to be skewed to the popular characters of now, as in the movie (mainly) books and games. So that must mean Starscream, Prime, Megatron, Ironhide and Grimlock as definites, then Soundwave as the cool cassette guy with the voice (that's a phrase I've seen plenty of times elsewhere)... and perhaps Blugeon... Hot Rod because of the '86 movie and Galvatron for his comic and cartoon appearances.

I had the same general thoughts as you do... and, well, suffice to say that while some do get in the top ten, not all of them do. Which means a fair few of the ones listed here didn't even make top thirty.

(Galvatron's already revealed at #19)

And the fact that a couple of the 'sure winners' weren't even able to beat Silverbolt, Movie Bumblebee and Swerve is what surprised me.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-31, 11:56 AM
OK, my guesses for the top ten:

1. Optimus Prime
2. Dinobot (Beast Wars)
3. Starscream
4. Megatron (Beast Wars)
5. Grimlock
6. Soundwave
7. Hot Rod / Rodimus Prime / Rodimus
8. Megatron (G1)
9. Sky Byte (RID)
10. Rhinox (Beast Wars)

That's not who I think should be in the top ten, just who I think will be in the top ten...

Anyone else fancy a crack?

Sades
2014-03-31, 04:25 PM
I voted based on how visible/popular a character is to other people and some based on personal preference (for character or toy). IIRC number one for me was Dinobot (might have been BW Megs, can't remember), Optimus was a few down, pretty sure Bumblebee was floating in there somewhere and Trypticon miiight have made it into my top ten, I can't remember. Based solely on how much I lurve his toy, natch.

Denyer
2014-03-31, 06:21 PM
If there was anything to say rank them in order, I missed it -- although some of the "big names" got tagged onto the end as a nod to popularity factor, whilst the ones worth comments (i.e. defending why I liked characters such as Repugnus as a kid on the basis of little more than profiles) did tend to go first.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-31, 06:25 PM
Yeah, must admit I didn't get that the 30 were supposed to be ranked. I just threw down 30 of my faves in the order I thought of them. Oh well. Still fun. :)

Warcry
2014-03-31, 06:37 PM
I don't believe we outright said to rank them, but that's actually standard practice when it comes to a lot of the surveys I do at work. Often the order that the items pop into someone's head are more telling than the order they'd give them to you in if you tell them to rank the items. When people know that the item ranks are important they'll subconsciously second-guess themselves sometimes and give you the items in the order that they think they "should" be in rather than reflecting what they actually feel.

In your case Denyer, what you say you did actually reflects exactly what I wanted -- the characters you actually had something to say about should come before the guys whose only inclusion criteria was "I guess Optimus belongs here, doesn't he?"

Auntie Slag
2014-03-31, 06:42 PM
I'd have thrown in a major vote for Beachcomber's toy. I found him so oddly fascinating and perfect in his way.

inflatable dalek
2014-03-31, 07:10 PM
As he seems to have become a bit of a poster child for obscure choices both here and in the side discussion in the thread in toys, I would say that whilst I don't think I voted for Swerve (and was mildly surprised he made it on the list over a few other MTMTE characters, though I won't sat which so as to maintain an atmosphere of tension and excitement), Swerve placing makes perfect sense to me.

Whether or not I'd have personally put him there, he's still be one of the main cast of a book that's been running for over two years now, he's a properly developed character with lots of "Screen" time, it makes more sense for him to get votes than someone whose total dialogue over thirty years is likely quite a bit less still like, say, Sideswipe.

Now, how well known he (or any of the other winners) are to non fans with only basic knowledge is entirely irrelevant to how good a character he's perceived as. Especially as, if we were only going with "Characters non fans are guaranteed to have heard of" we'd be stuck with Optimus, Megatron and Bumblebee and no others. And then a general gestalt for each one including every version together as non-fans aren't hugely aware or even bothered that Movie Optimus Prime and Optimus Primal aren't the same person. So certainly for trying to come up with as many as 30, "Popular opinion" is basically moot.

Or, to carry on the Trek analogy from that other thread, Swerve is basically Doctor Bashir. A lead character from a series only the big Trek fans are really aware of in any depth, that doesn't stop him being my personal favourite Trek Doctor (which is frankly a slightly bonkers option even amongst fandom) as he's a properly developed interesting character who evolved over the series more than (either) McCoy, isn't punchable like Crusher, not overrated like The Doctor and not in Enterprise like Phlox.

Auntie Slag
2014-03-31, 07:15 PM
Enterprise, how did they manage to mess that up so badly?

You'd punch Picard's bird? She's already lost her Husband, you animal.

inflatable dalek
2014-03-31, 07:22 PM
Annoying, self righteous, frequently badly acted and got her son an important job on the ship over people who have trained for that role for years with the constant tease of giving the Captain a blow job.

And those are her good points.

The shame of Enterprise is the cast are generally solid, but the whole show ended up being a complete waste of Scott Backula's considerable talents (the man played a monkey convincingly for God's sake!).

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-31, 07:41 PM
Annoying, self righteous, frequently badly acted and got her son an important job on the ship over people who have trained for that role for years with the constant tease of giving the Captain a blow job.

And those are her good points.

The shame of Enterprise is the cast are generally solid, but the whole show ended up being a complete waste of Scott Backula's considerable talents (the man played a monkey convincingly for God's sake!).

Good actor? Sure. But not good enough to get his name right. ;)

And Crusher (Ms, not Master) should be punished in the fires of Hell for all eternity for inflicting Wesley upon us all.

PS. I rather like The Doctor..:(

inflatable dalek
2014-03-31, 07:47 PM
He's OK, mainly thanks to being played by a solid character actor who very quickly comes to realise he's the best thing on the show, but I've always thought him very overrated and frequently slightly annoying (and basically repeats a lot of the same shtick as Data with the "Rights for artificial life" stuff). It's mainly in comparison to everyone else in the show he's with that makes him seem so awesome.

Death's Head
2014-03-31, 09:02 PM
It was very nice when he popped up in DS9 as well!

Sades
2014-03-31, 11:12 PM
Man, Transformers fans are annoying.

Ignore me, seriously. Or rip me apart... I really don't mind/care. :p

Have I mentioned I have a Hello Kitty mug?

Warcry
2014-04-01, 01:35 PM
I approve of all the Doctor Bashir love in this topic! He's one of the best characters in the single best Star Trek show!

Don't much care for The Doctor on Voyager though. He was interesting for the first season or so but quickly became annoying (which also more-or-less describes my opinion of the series as a whole, come to think of it).


Here's #10: Rhinox (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/10_Rhinox.php)!

Blackjack
2014-04-01, 02:43 PM
Me no understand Star Trek talk. :(

Rack'n'Ruin shoots! He scores! He got the unlikely number ten down!

Sades
2014-04-01, 03:59 PM
#10 is just an April Fool's Day joke.

inflatable dalek
2014-04-01, 04:01 PM
Pfft. I bet I could do a really unnervingly accurate guess on the next 9.

I do feel Armada Rhinox is an intriguing character- as the Red Nex put it, where did he come from? Where did he go? An enigma wrapped in a puzzle wrapped in a kinda egg indeed.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-04-01, 04:05 PM
Rack'n'Ruin shoots! He scores! He got the unlikely number ten down!

Mwah hah hah hah hah haaaaaaah! All part of my evil plan!

/luckyguess

Brendocon 2.0
2014-04-01, 07:26 PM
I certainly didn't realise that I was meant to be ranking them in a specific order when I filled out the ballot.

[When I did it properly, I mean. Not when I just listed Flywheels.]

I'm assuming that my 87 votes for Flywheels have all been counted, by the way. He deserves to be number one.

Warcry
2014-04-02, 01:55 PM
Oh, they've been counted for something alright...

Here's today's entry, #9: Rodimus Prime (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/09_Rodimus.php)! Definitely happy that this guy made it so high up the list.

Blackjack
2014-04-02, 02:05 PM
That is beautiful.

I have never quite appreciated Rodimus before reading your article.

Hell, I have never quite liked Rodimus beyond 'hey, cool red Autobot car Mary Sue guy' before reading your article.

another tf fan
2014-04-02, 05:13 PM
Yet another pull quote in Roddy's profile.
I love it!

inflatable dalek
2014-04-02, 05:40 PM
Hot Rod. Loved by losers everywhere.

Wait, I voted for him didn't I?

Sades
2014-04-02, 05:46 PM
Who?

NEXT

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-04-02, 07:13 PM
Rodimus Stars all round! :)

Warcry
2014-04-03, 01:47 PM
Who?

NEXT
Okay, but only because you asked: #8: Optimus Primal (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/08_Optimus_Primal.php)

inflatable dalek
2014-04-03, 08:10 PM
Optimus Minor is better.

Sades
2014-04-04, 06:34 AM
I'm okay with Op Primal. Munky good.

Blackjack
2014-04-04, 08:35 AM
MONKEYYYYY

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-04-04, 11:13 AM
Munky? Funky!

Warcry
2014-04-04, 01:51 PM
I'm just impressed I managed to write the whole thing without a poo-flinging joke...

Here's today's entry: #7: Dinobot (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/07_Dinobot.php)!

Blackjack
2014-04-04, 03:32 PM
And the rest is silence.

Terome
2014-04-04, 03:48 PM
I'm just impressed I managed to write the whole thing without a poo-flinging joke...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXvrvyKhpV0

inflatable dalek
2014-04-04, 04:08 PM
Having recently seen We're All Going to Die!, with its lengthy deconstruction of why Hamlet's soliloquy is crap ("Be is the correct answer to that question Hamlet, however shit your life is it's much better than Not Being...") it's going to be really hard to take Dinobot's speechifying seriously when I reach that episode again.

Sades
2014-04-05, 01:47 AM
People took it seriously?

Warcry
2014-04-05, 05:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXvrvyKhpV0
:up:

Good man.

People took it seriously?
It was seriously awesome, does that count?

Today's entry continues yesterday's dinosaur theme: #6: Grimlock (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/06_Grimlock.php)!

Unlike Blackjack, I am in no way surprised that Grimlock reached such heights on the list. He's one of perhaps three or four characters that fans of both the cartoon and comic love equally.

inflatable dalek
2014-04-05, 06:31 PM
But I voted for letters page Grimlock!

Sades
2014-04-05, 06:37 PM
Honestly, I think most of my list was comprised of votes for the toy versions.

Warcry
2014-04-06, 04:24 PM
And then there were five...

#5: Megatron! (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/05_Megatron.php)

Perhaps shockingly, almost nobody seemed to really care about 80s G1 Megs at all. If not for Chaos Theory, he'd be nowhere near the top ten.

Sades
2014-04-06, 06:54 PM
Perhaps shockingly, almost nobody seemed to really care about 80s G1 Megs at all. If not for Chaos Theory, he'd be nowhere near the top ten.

G1 Megs (cartoon) always struck me as "generic bad guy leader". He wasn't overly smart, and his bad guy schemes were mostly stupid as ****. The old comics made him less shit and latest stuff (not pretending I've read it, but I have gleaned bits from the internet, brief glances through comics plus conversation with teh hoosban) seems to be making him more interesting, which is nice IMO.

Brendocon 2.0
2014-04-06, 07:41 PM
Who?

Auntie Slag
2014-04-06, 08:11 PM
With Megatron: Origin over time its been very re-readable. That doesn't mean its great, but there's definitely some interesting stuff going on. I'd imagine that puts it in the same category as any Red Dwarf episode post 6th Series (I quit in disgust at the seventh but I'd imagine time has been kind to them?).

So yeah, Megatron: Origin is Red Dwarf Series VIII quality. Does that sound fair?

Warcry
2014-04-08, 12:56 AM
...if I knew British TV I'd probably be more qualified to answer that.

But what I do know is that today's entry is #4: Starscream (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/04_Starscream.php) and he's very, very happy to be rated above his life-long foe Megatron.

inflatable dalek
2014-04-08, 06:14 AM
Starscream can retire happy now.

As long as no one else he had a run in with is higher up.

Sades
2014-04-08, 06:42 AM
I was going to make a joke about slashfic and Starscream being on top of Megatron until I realised that any scenarios involving said "joke" have probably happened.

Then I tried to picture the logistics of big metal aliens bumping uglies and had to watch some baby Gerbil videos on Youtube to wash it all away.

Blackjack
2014-04-08, 09:16 AM
But what I do know is that today's entry is #4: Starscream (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/04_Starscream.php) and he's very, very happy to be rated above his life-long foe Megatron.

....except that the single most glaring omission amongst the Decepticon ranks is on top of Starscream and he won't stand for that. Y'all know who I'm talking about. ;)

Still, he beat Megatron (and practically all except three other characters) and that's awesome!

Go Starscream!

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-04-08, 11:32 AM
....except that the single most glaring omission amongst the Decepticon ranks is on top of Starscream and he won't stand for that. Y'all know who I'm talking about. ;)

Slugfest? Windsweeper? No, wait! Flamefeather! It's Flamefeather, isn't it?

Auntie Slag
2014-04-08, 12:05 PM
Starscream has been one of the crappiest characters in Transformers. A pointless, whiny, one-note bitch who never ever advances from his one thought. How is that a good character?

I've only ever enjoyed two portrayals of him:

1) (official) The Enemy Within, and;
2) (unofficial fanfic) The Andraxus Saga (http://www.transformersfanfic.com/search.php?action=advanced) by Belinda Kelly (http://www.transformersfanfic.com/viewstory.php?sid=176&chapter=1)

"It's basically a novel in seven parts. It deals with a future in which many of the TFs we're familiar with have faded into near legend, and other have dramatically changed... starting in part one with Slag, who's changed allegiances...

Fantastic stuff, and don't be put off by the style of part seven. It's from a character point-of-view and all will become clear".

The stuff above is a direct quote from Denyer in 2004. Starscream is a key figure in this story.

Other than these instances he makes me cringe to be a fan of Transformers (Starscream, not Denyer).

Blackjack
2014-04-08, 01:03 PM
Slugfest?

Got it in one!

Starscream has been one of the crappiest characters in Transformers. A pointless, whiny, one-note bitch who never ever advances from his one thought. How is that a good character?

True, and other than Prime Starscream (and to a lesser extent the Movie and Animated versions, albeit because they aren't in the show as much as other versions) I've never really enjoyed Starscream... but as I wrote up that piece in the Starscream article I've realized that Starscream suffers from the same thing Grimlock does: oversaturation. He's... he's not the most stellar of characters, I admit, and I strongly dislike the cartoon version.

But going through the Marvel comics and IDW comics I found that he's fairly... developed, albeit inconsistently. Granted, that's the same thing you could say for Grimlock, Optimus, Megatron and a lot of other characters on this list.

It's just that when written in his 'default' state, Starscream is a whiny bitch whereas 'default' Grimlock, while cringe-inducing, is a roaring badass which kinds of makes the difference. There's around as much bad Starscream stories as there are bad Grimlock or Megatron or Optimus series... but there are good ones too. Fallen Star and Enemy Within obviously, but I've always enjoyed the early portrayals of Starscream in Generation Two, Spotlight Megatron and Infiltration, as well as some of the earlier Robots in Disguise issues.

He's certainly not anywhere near my personal 30 Transformers list, but like Rodimus I've had a newfound interest in him (well, his comic incarnations) whilst being mostly indifferent about him all through my run as a Transformers fan. While in my personal opinion he's sitting on too high a spot than he deserves, it's not fair to say that he doesn't deserve to be on the list per se.

But it is a popularity poll, and the people have spoken, and I really haven't realized just how much impact Starscream has on the fandom in general.

Warcry
2014-04-08, 01:36 PM
Starscream has been one of the crappiest characters in Transformers. A pointless, whiny, one-note bitch who never ever advances from his one thought. How is that a good character?
Read the article and you'll find out why people say that! Though not necessarily agree. :)

Starscream can retire happy now.

As long as no one else he had a run in with is higher up.
That almost sounds like a comment meant to segue into today's character...

Well, far be it from me to disappoint.

#3: Soundwave (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/03_Soundwave.php)

Soundwave superior, indeed. Well, at least among the ranks of the Decepticons...

Blackjack
2014-04-08, 01:59 PM
Soundwave. Superior.

Philister
2014-04-08, 03:45 PM
My money is on Optimus Prime (G1) for the #2 spot.

inflatable dalek
2014-04-08, 04:20 PM
Note how I didn't succumb to the "Soundwave Superior" gag. Why? Because I'm better than all of you.

Sades
2014-04-08, 05:36 PM
Ehhhhhhhh, Soundwave.

Neat toy, that is all.

Terome
2014-04-08, 05:49 PM
Beast Wars Megatron is coming tomorrow, isn't he?

Brendocon 2.0
2014-04-08, 06:07 PM
Oh the drama, the anticipation, the excitement.

Only two spots left with BW Megatron, Flywheels, Tarantulas, Spinister and whichever Firecon I voted for still to be revealed.

It's going to be a controversial finish, that's fo shizzle.

inflatable dalek
2014-04-08, 07:58 PM
Well, if I may tease... This poll has conclusively proved that Spinster is more popular than Thunderwing.

Skyquake87
2014-04-08, 09:19 PM
Ehhhhhhhh, Soundwave.

Neat toy, that is all.

Funny, that's how I felt about Starscream. And he doesn't have a 'neat toy' to help him out.

Auntie Slag
2014-04-09, 10:20 AM
Damn, I really cannot get behind the Top 10 apart from Rhinox and Dinobot. Although Prime has to be No.1 and I do love his live action movie interpretation, and his brilliant appearances in the comics (typically around Marvel UK issues 97 to 104).

Warcry
2014-04-09, 01:41 PM
Beast Wars Megatron is coming tomorrow, isn't he?
Yeeeesssss...

(Thanks for setting that up!)

#2: Beast Wars Megatron (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/02_Megatron.php)!

inflatable dalek
2014-04-09, 02:50 PM
Damn, I really cannot get behind the Top 10 apart from Rhinox and Dinobot.

There's still a chance Megan Fox's bum could feature, and I could definately get behind that.

It's amazing I wrote the Countdown to 30 piece on sexism isn't it?

BW Megs! Easily the best take on the character (even Kaye's other versions- including the frankly dull Beast Machines take- aren't on the same level). He really has wandered in from a different series (even for a show that had a self aware fourth wall breaking level of camp, he's knocking it further out of the park) and is all the better for it.

Brendocon 2.0
2014-04-09, 06:44 PM
You could have just copy/pasted from the two Megs-praise segments I wrote for the 25th anniversary. I wouldnae minded and you'd have saved yourself some typing. ;)

Philister
2014-04-10, 09:53 AM
Damn, I'd been hoping BW Megs had snagged the number one spot. So close. He was soooooo close!

I guess there is no hope that number one is anyone but the guy I know it'll be then?

Warcry
2014-04-10, 01:59 PM
Now that we've reached the top spot, I just wanted to thank everyone that voted (yes, even Brend and his 87 Flywheels votes) for being a part of something that I've enjoyed quite a lot! And an extra special thanks to everyone who's pitched in on the writing side of things -- inflatable dalek, Blackjack, Clogs, Heinrad, zigzagger, Clay and anyone I might be forgetting. Thanks for all the hard work. You guys rock!

You could have just copy/pasted from the two Megs-praise segments I wrote for the 25th anniversary. I wouldnae minded and you'd have saved yourself some typing. ;)
Maybe, but Megs is always worth going the extra mile for! :)

Damn, I'd been hoping BW Megs had snagged the number one spot. So close. He was soooooo close!
Actually...although he finished second, the gap between second and first was almost as wide as the gap between second and twelfth. So he really wasn't that close at all. :(

I guess there is no hope that number one is anyone but the guy I know it'll be then?
Nope. The winner, as pretty much everyone would have guessed from day one, is #1: Optimus Prime (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/01_Optimus_Prime.php). I'll admit that I was hoping another character would sneak past him just for the surprise value alone, but after the first few days this outcome was never in doubt. And to be honest...really, it's totally deserved.

And for all of you who can't get enough polling info, don't forget to check out dalek's writeup on some interesting Miscellanious facts (http://www.tfarchive.com/fandom/features/thirtieth-anniversary/thirty-greatest-characters/characters/00_Misc.php) that we stumbled across in the process of running the vote.

tahukanuva
2014-04-10, 02:22 PM
It actually blows my mind that nearly forty percent of voters didn't include him. How'd that happen? What game were they playing at?

zigzagger
2014-04-10, 02:23 PM
What game were they playing at?

I... I wanted Beast Wars Megatron to win :(

tahukanuva
2014-04-10, 02:33 PM
I... I wanted Beast Wars Megatron to win :(

The ultimate risk.... for the ultimate prize!

Blackjack
2014-04-10, 03:06 PM
It actually blows my mind that nearly forty percent of voters didn't include him. How'd that happen? What game were they playing at?

I voted for the face-hacking one.

Warcry
2014-04-10, 03:29 PM
It actually blows my mind that nearly forty percent of voters didn't include him. How'd that happen? What game were they playing at?
A few reasons:

We only counted votes for the G1 guy. He blew away the field on his own, so we didn't feel the need to add in the votes for the other Optimuses (even though they did get mentioned in the article). If we'd added them all up he'd have 85-90% of the vote easily.
Younger or newer fans like Blackjack don't seem to connect to the G1 guy as much (understandable IMO since while he's had good moments, he's not a top highlight of the IDW stuff), and voted for the movie or Animated guy instead.
Most voters seemed to consciously avoid voting for more than one version of the character. While a few people did vote for two or three different Optimuses, most people picked one and stuck with it.
Some voters only named four or five personal favourites instead of filling out the whole thirty, and lots of those didn't name Optimus.
Conjecture on my part, but I'd imagine that ziggy wasn't the only person who left him off their list on the assumption "He'll probably win anyway but I don't want to help" and gave their vote to a character who needed it more.

tahukanuva
2014-04-10, 04:36 PM
I voted for the face-hacking one.

He did use a jetpack to punch Shockwave's head apart. 10 out of 10.

Younger or newer fans like Blackjack don't seem to connect to the G1 guy as much (understandable IMO since while he's had good moments, he's not a top highlight of the IDW stuff), and voted for the movie or Animated guy instead.

One time you mentioned (in reference to me, I believe) how weird it was to longer be in the youngest group of the fandom. And now that I'm on your end of it, I have to agree.

EDIT: I assume all five of the Japanese leader votes went to Deathsaurus? Because otherwise they're wrong.

Brendocon 2.0
2014-04-10, 04:36 PM
Given that the submission form was properly vague and meant that I (and obviously by extension everybody else) didn't realise I was meant to be ranking them, I'd be interested to see what the top 30 looks like without the weighting.

Ie just the raw number of votes per character.

Dance for me, stats monkey, dance. ;)

Warcry
2014-04-10, 05:37 PM
One time you mentioned (in reference to me, I believe) how weird it was to longer be in the youngest group of the fandom. And now that I'm on your end of it, I have to agree.
That's okay, you're always going to be a whelp to me. :)

Given that the submission form was properly vague and meant that I (and obviously by extension everybody else) didn't realise I was meant to be ranking them, I'd be interested to see what the top 30 looks like without the weighting.

Ie just the raw number of votes per character.

Dance for me, stats monkey, dance. ;)
No problem. :) But the differences are fairly minor. Since the rankings were so tight overall most characters move up or down a few places, but only a few jump up or drop down a significant amount. Two characters on the bottom of the list drop entirely off but otherwise we're talking about the same group, just in a somewhat different order. Ultra Magnus makes a surprisingly big leap up, though, and Rhinox has a big fall.

(Weighted rankings are in brackets)

1: Optimus Prime (1)
2: Soundwave (3)
3: BW Megatron (2)
4: Grimlock (6)
5: Starscream (4)
6: Shockwave (12)
7: G1 Megatron (5)
8: Dinobot (7)
9: Ultra Magnus (18)
10: Prowl (13)
11: Ratchet (11)
12: Rodimus Prime (9)
13: Optimus Primal (8)
14: Jazz (14)
15: Waspinator (16)
16: Rattrap (15)
17: Rhinox (10)
18: Cyclonus (21)
19: Galvatron (19)
20: Wheeljack (25)
21: Scorponok (20)
22: Unicron (22)
23: G1 Bumblebee (17)
24: Tarantulas (Out)
25: Springer (Out)
26: Ravage (26)
27: Blaster (23)
28: Blackarachnia (24)
29: Swerve (30)
30: Movie Bumblebee (29)
Out: Silverbolt (28)
Out: Impactor (27)

(Tarantulas and Springer's places are approximate, I don't have their exact stats with me right now)

inflatable dalek
2014-04-10, 08:07 PM
As you can see, I managed to slip that Megan Fox's bum picture in there at the end (that scene is never quite as perverted as I remember it, I think I've mentally merged it with the far worse introduction to Carly...).

Genuinely surprised Thunderwing did so badly, it's like Cliffy has successfully brainwashed us all to his viewpoint. We'll all be hating Swerve next.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-04-10, 08:09 PM
Well done to all who worked on this. It was a LOT of fun. :)

I'd like to have more! For example, which character/s had the dubious honour of being popular enough to get a vote, but ended up at the bottom of the overall list?

Also, I'm sure there were some comments for characters that didn't make the top 30 that are worth sharing, be they heartfelt, insightful, or just plain funny. Could we have a thread of the organisers' favourite quotes for the nearly men and women? Pretty please? :)

Warcry
2014-04-10, 09:33 PM
Genuinely surprised Thunderwing did so badly, it's like Cliffy has successfully brainwashed us all to his viewpoint. We'll all be hating Swerve next.
I'm ahead of the curve on that one! **** Swerve.

Also surprised about Thunderwing, honestly. Sure, he sucked as a leader, but he was entertaining. I thought he'd at least cut it close.

Well done to all who worked on this. It was a LOT of fun. :)
For us too. Well, me at least. The other guys and gals might have been secretly crying themselves to sleep every night for all I know, but I had fun!

I'd like to have more! For example, which character/s had the dubious honour of being popular enough to get a vote, but ended up at the bottom of the overall list?
Probably not something that you could determine easily. I think we got something like 100 characters with only one vote, and for obvious reasons a lot of them were throw-in "oh yeah, that guy too I guess?" type votes that people tossed into the last few spots on their list because they'd ran out of ideas.

So I'm just going to say "Wildfly" and stick with that. :)

Also, I'm sure there were some comments for characters that didn't make the top 30 that are worth sharing, be they heartfelt, insightful, or just plain funny. Could we have a thread of the organisers' favourite quotes for the nearly men and women? Pretty please? :)
You know...now that you mention it, I don't think anyone's actually read the quotes for the non-qualifiers! I shall have to remedy that!

Denyer
2014-04-10, 09:52 PM
heartfelt, insightful, or just plain funny
Probably none of the above in anyone else's opinion, but my ballot ran to...

Repugnus
Repugnus belongs to the cadre of Transformers characters that never got to be more than interesting profiles back in the day, and whose best characterisation is still probably being a spark in a box on Garrus 9 for crimes as-yet unspecified in IDW continuity. Even as a kid I liked the idea that the Autobots -- presumably the ones on Cybertron operating under Xaaron -- could be expedient when necessary. The toy is... basically a Fisher Price insect monster.

Sideswipe
Cool alt-mode and toy, reckless to a fault and a bit of a cypher in the comics until G2, Sideswipe was long gone from the shelves by the time I got into Transformers. Fortunately in Europe he put in another appearance as an Actionmaster -- which used to be regarded as anathema by the fandom at large, but have been reassessed as fun and accurate representations of characters. I had lots of fun with that figure, and it can't be over-estimated what having the toys as a kid adds to appreciation.

Grimlock
Despite being overused by Furman in modern comics and being an easy target for parody, Grimlock has a fantastic original toy and characterisation in Marvel UK / US G2 to match. Robot dinosaurs combine two things kids love, it really is that simple.

Slag
I'm all-in for the sociopaths and rebels, particularly when they they have cool alt-modes. Ceratopsians are every bit as iconic as tyrannosaurids -- add a flamethrower and a name that's both a cockney insult and a perfectly logical verb for use of that flamethrower, and Slag's easily my favourite Dinobot after Grimlock.

Prowl
It's taken Nick Roche and James Roberts to really bring out the machiavellian -ahem- logical conclusion of Prowl's original characterisation, but even before then butting heads with Grimlock was a great match for the Autobot strategist.

Emirate Xaaron
Although not a combatant and never seen to transform, Xaaron represented the political and tactical leadership Cybertron had to have had to have survived an even moderately competent Decepticon threat over millions of years. He gets some snarky characterisation in the UK Marvel title before being brought over by Furman when he started work on the US one, and sacrificed to make Optimus wonder how much of a bastard Primus was. Not a bad showing.

Ravage
Beyond being a laconic robot jaguar with a pocket-friendly "second" alt-mode (I know, the jaguar is the robot mode, but as a kid the distinctions seemed more blurry) Ravage gets to be there at the death of civilisation in the classic UK annual strip, State Games.

Perceptor
Perceptor gets chosen as "science guy" over Wheeljack or Brainstorm because of the polysyllabics gimmick and a starring role in Transformers: the Movie that also gave him a neat line in understatement. He's not quite in William Harper Littlejohn territory, but enough to appeal to any youngster that views an occasional dip into the dictionary as added interest rather than intimidating.

Metroplex
Metroplex is probably more regarded as a last line of defence for the Autobots n the UK than Omega Supreme, due to the other big guy not getting a formal release here. An appearance in Space Pirates didn't hurt, either.

Computron
Okay, so this is more a vote for the Technobots than Computron… a team of maniacs, warriors and one daydreamer that combine to become incongruously smart. One of the rare instances in which cartoon characterisation beat the comic because Budiansky had apparently reached the not-giving-a-**** stage of writing profiles with exaggerated and debilitating weaknesses. Although it's not as bad as Broadside's. Still, Computron has potential if you use a bit of imagination.

Rack 'n' Ruin
Rack'n'Ruin remain a taciturn mystery, which allows the reader to fill in the blanks and is frankly a whole lot more interesting than spelling out how they got stitched together or getting to know them. Their design is far more ABC Warriors than Transformers, and at the time non-transforming characters were also a bit of a novelty.

Soundwave
Like a lot of my choices, Soundwave gets included by virtue of his UK comics characterisation, particularly #275 "Secrets" in which he stitches up Wildrider and gets him executed. But he did well in most mediums; particularly memorable tech spec and motto, great toy and gimmick with the cassettes, a classic Frank Welker voice, and a head sculpt with a remarkable similarity to the Decepticon logo. Whether as the power behind the throne or an early instance of particularly adult concepts (blackmailer and voyeur if not actual torturer) in a franchise aimed at kids, Soundwave is badass, and thirty years of more usually standing behind Megatron can't dampen that.

Bludgeon
Mostly due to the whole skull-faced samurai thing -- although also one of the more successful Decepticon leaders.

Jazz
Do it with style or don't bother doing it. Words to live by.

Skullcruncher
Skullcruncher is a cannibalistic serial murderer. Not to be confused with Barney.

Slog
Makes art out of corpses. Another kid-friendly techspec triumph.

Nightbeat
I'd just typed "UK comics reasons" and was going to leave it at that… but really, as much of my appreciation of Nightbeat is due to him being a point-of-view character in Eugenesis.

Springer
Toys, movie and the recent comics don't hurt.

Rung
Everybody's favourite James Roberts self-insert character.

Chromedome
IDW comics reasons.

Impactor
UK comics reasons.

Death's Head
UK comics reasons, yes?

Dead End
Morose bastard #1.

Dreadwind
Morose bastard #2.

Catilla
I just like the toy.

Brawl
I just like the toy.

Axer
I just like the toy.

Browning
I just like the toy.

Megatron
G2 mostly.

Optimus Prime
G2 mostly.

Denyer
2014-04-10, 10:10 PM
I just wanted to thank everyone that voted (yes, even Brend and his 87 Flywheels votes) for being a part of something that I've enjoyed quite a lot! And an extra special thanks to everyone who's pitched in on the writing side of things -- inflatable dalek, Blackjack, Clogs, Heinrad, zigzagger, Clay and anyone I might be forgetting. Thanks for all the hard work. You guys rock!

Yeah, and the same to Warcry, whose baby this has been in organising voting, stats, and publishing results. Just read the Optimus entry and it really came off nicely, in particular. Great going.

Clay
2014-04-10, 11:18 PM
Slog
Makes art out of corpses. Another kid-friendly techspec triumph

I... never noticed that. But, it was right there the whole time. How ghoulish.

Blackjack
2014-04-11, 01:32 AM
For Slog, I voted as well.

I think, I may have forgotten, I may be mistaken, been a while it is since I voted.

Brendocon 2.0
2014-04-11, 08:07 AM
Also surprised about Thunderwing, honestly. Sure, he sucked as a leader, but he was entertaining. I thought he'd at least cut it close.

Furman's own fault, really.

Worlds Collide and Stormbringer both serve to reinforce the opinion that he's just a plot device rather than an actual character.

Philister
2014-04-11, 11:46 AM
Well, it was always going to be Optimus Prime, I know. And he does deserve it. I kinda hoped, though, that BW Megatron might pull off an upset like Dinobot did over Soundwave at the Hall of Fame thing. Well, at least he gets number 2.

A very fun thing, people, and thanks for investing all that work.

Any hope of doing a similar thing for the 30 best TF toys of all time? I'd offer my help, too, just for the fun of it.

Blackjack
2014-04-11, 12:20 PM
Furman's own fault, really.

Worlds Collide and Stormbringer both serve to reinforce the opinion that he's just a plot device rather than an actual character.

I think it's kind of telling though that despite having handed over the reins to a lot of new writers, Thunderwing is the one with absolutely no appearances at all. Bludgeon, the Technobots Monstructor, Jhiaxus, Nightbeat, Arcee, Hardhead, Scorponok, Grimlock... by this point every single one of Furman's -ions era characters have been used in some way or another except for Thunderwing.

Unicron
2014-04-11, 01:25 PM
I think it's kind of telling though that despite having handed over the reins to a lot of new writers, Thunderwing is the one with absolutely no appearances at all. Bludgeon, the Technobots Monstructor, Jhiaxus, Nightbeat, Arcee, Hardhead, Scorponok, Grimlock... by this point every single one of Furman's -ions era characters have been used in some way or another except for Thunderwing.

His last appearance was as an overpowered brain dead guard dog, and we don't even know what happened to the body after that was over. They'd have to come up with a good way to rehabilitate and restore him to a pre-Pretender form. I'm not sure how they would do that, or who would do it now that Shockwave is gone...

Red Dave Prime
2014-04-11, 02:30 PM
A big thanks to everyone who wrote up the profiles and did the maths for the top thirty. Its been a great read and has finally convinced me to hunt out some beast wars dvds. Lovely seeing all the different quotes in there and the optimus prime finale was epic. Well done!

another tf fan
2014-04-12, 06:42 AM
Thanks for my final pull quote in #1 Optimus prime.

This has been a great project!

zigzagger
2014-04-12, 10:39 PM
You know...now that you mention it, I don't think anyone's actually read the quotes for the non-qualifiers! I shall have to remedy that!

Oooh, I like this idea.

With all the passionate submissions we received, I'm curious to see what folks had to say about the runner-ups, especially Springer and Tarantulas considering how close they were to making the cut.

Skyquake87
2014-04-12, 11:54 PM
I really enjoyed this as well, although it is a shame that no new characters that have been devised this century have made much impact (I did expect Knock Out from Prime to have made the cut).

I must confess to skimming the Starscream article as the character does nothing for me, and I've met enough bitchy, self-absorbed, cowardly back talkers in real life to not really have much truck with fictional characters of the same!

Blackjack
2014-04-13, 03:29 AM
I really enjoyed this as well, although it is a shame that no new characters that have been devised this century have made much impact (I did expect Knock Out from Prime to have made the cut).

BUMBLE BEE BUMBLE BEE

Skyquake87
2014-04-13, 09:08 AM
He's just a different flavour of Bumblebee though ... although an awesome one that puts the G1 version firmly in the shade :)

Denyer
2014-04-13, 01:56 PM
TFW is also running a "Transformers at 30" series. Neat summaries and nice to see original era figures in context with each other rather than just striped out over huge shelves.

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/generation-1-1/ --

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/generation-1-1/30-years-of-transformers-in-30-days-1984-179577/
http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/generation-1-1/30-years-of-transformers-in-30-days-1985-179595/
http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/generation-1-1/30-years-of-transformers-in-30-days-1986-179591/
http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/generation-1-1/30-years-of-transformers-in-30-days-1987-179592/
http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/generation-1-1/30-years-of-transformers-in-30-days-1988-179593/
http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/generation-1-1/30-years-of-transformers-in-30-days-1989-179594/

Warcry
2014-04-13, 03:47 PM
I saw that! Way more exhaustive and factual than the stuff we've done, though, which is nice. It makes for interesting reading instead of just feeling like a repeat of stuff that we've already read over here.

inflatable dalek
2014-04-13, 08:35 PM
Yeap, very nice stuff. Presumably they'll be a lot more similar stuff on other sites as the year goes on, if anyone comes across something anniversary-ish they find interesting do feel free to share it here.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-04-14, 06:21 PM
Probably none of the above in anyone else's opinion, but my ballot ran to...

Repugnus
Repugnus belongs to the cadre of Transformers characters that never got to be more than interesting profiles back in the day, and whose best characterisation is still probably being a spark in a box on Garrus 9 for crimes as-yet unspecified in IDW continuity. Even as a kid I liked the idea that the Autobots -- presumably the ones on Cybertron operating under Xaaron -- could be expedient when necessary. The toy is... basically a Fisher Price insect monster.

Sideswipe
Cool alt-mode and toy, reckless to a fault and a bit of a cypher in the comics until G2, Sideswipe was long gone from the shelves by the time I got into Transformers. Fortunately in Europe he put in another appearance as an Actionmaster -- which used to be regarded as anathema by the fandom at large, but have been reassessed as fun and accurate representations of characters. I had lots of fun with that figure, and it can't be over-estimated what having the toys as a kid adds to appreciation.

Grimlock
Despite being overused by Furman in modern comics and being an easy target for parody, Grimlock has a fantastic original toy and characterisation in Marvel UK / US G2 to match. Robot dinosaurs combine two things kids love, it really is that simple.

Slag
I'm all-in for the sociopaths and rebels, particularly when they they have cool alt-modes. Ceratopsians are every bit as iconic as tyrannosaurids -- add a flamethrower and a name that's both a cockney insult and a perfectly logical verb for use of that flamethrower, and Slag's easily my favourite Dinobot after Grimlock.

Prowl
It's taken Nick Roche and James Roberts to really bring out the machiavellian -ahem- logical conclusion of Prowl's original characterisation, but even before then butting heads with Grimlock was a great match for the Autobot strategist.

Emirate Xaaron
Although not a combatant and never seen to transform, Xaaron represented the political and tactical leadership Cybertron had to have had to have survived an even moderately competent Decepticon threat over millions of years. He gets some snarky characterisation in the UK Marvel title before being brought over by Furman when he started work on the US one, and sacrificed to make Optimus wonder how much of a bastard Primus was. Not a bad showing.

Ravage
Beyond being a laconic robot jaguar with a pocket-friendly "second" alt-mode (I know, the jaguar is the robot mode, but as a kid the distinctions seemed more blurry) Ravage gets to be there at the death of civilisation in the classic UK annual strip, State Games.

Perceptor
Perceptor gets chosen as "science guy" over Wheeljack or Brainstorm because of the polysyllabics gimmick and a starring role in Transformers: the Movie that also gave him a neat line in understatement. He's not quite in William Harper Littlejohn territory, but enough to appeal to any youngster that views an occasional dip into the dictionary as added interest rather than intimidating.

Metroplex
Metroplex is probably more regarded as a last line of defence for the Autobots n the UK than Omega Supreme, due to the other big guy not getting a formal release here. An appearance in Space Pirates didn't hurt, either.

Computron
Okay, so this is more a vote for the Technobots than Computronů a team of maniacs, warriors and one daydreamer that combine to become incongruously smart. One of the rare instances in which cartoon characterisation beat the comic because Budiansky had apparently reached the not-giving-a-**** stage of writing profiles with exaggerated and debilitating weaknesses. Although it's not as bad as Broadside's. Still, Computron has potential if you use a bit of imagination.

Rack 'n' Ruin
Rack'n'Ruin remain a taciturn mystery, which allows the reader to fill in the blanks and is frankly a whole lot more interesting than spelling out how they got stitched together or getting to know them. Their design is far more ABC Warriors than Transformers, and at the time non-transforming characters were also a bit of a novelty.

Soundwave
Like a lot of my choices, Soundwave gets included by virtue of his UK comics characterisation, particularly #275 "Secrets" in which he stitches up Wildrider and gets him executed. But he did well in most mediums; particularly memorable tech spec and motto, great toy and gimmick with the cassettes, a classic Frank Welker voice, and a head sculpt with a remarkable similarity to the Decepticon logo. Whether as the power behind the throne or an early instance of particularly adult concepts (blackmailer and voyeur if not actual torturer) in a franchise aimed at kids, Soundwave is badass, and thirty years of more usually standing behind Megatron can't dampen that.

Bludgeon
Mostly due to the whole skull-faced samurai thing -- although also one of the more successful Decepticon leaders.

Jazz
Do it with style or don't bother doing it. Words to live by.

Skullcruncher
Skullcruncher is a cannibalistic serial murderer. Not to be confused with Barney.

Slog
Makes art out of corpses. Another kid-friendly techspec triumph.

Nightbeat
I'd just typed "UK comics reasons" and was going to leave it at thatů but really, as much of my appreciation of Nightbeat is due to him being a point-of-view character in Eugenesis.

Springer
Toys, movie and the recent comics don't hurt.

Rung
Everybody's favourite James Roberts self-insert character.

Chromedome
IDW comics reasons.

Impactor
UK comics reasons.

Death's Head
UK comics reasons, yes?

Dead End
Morose bastard #1.

Dreadwind
Morose bastard #2.

Catilla
I just like the toy.

Brawl
I just like the toy.

Axer
I just like the toy.

Browning
I just like the toy.

Megatron
G2 mostly.

Optimus Prime
G2 mostly.

Cool. Thanks for posting your picks. Very interesting reading. And you chose "me"! Even I didn't choose "me"! Plus, it appears we both have a hankerin' for sad sack Dead End. I can't help but hear him as Marvin from Hitchhikers. :lol:

I wish I'd been more organised and saved my list. Anyone else want to share their TF passions?

inflatable dalek
2014-04-14, 06:34 PM
I think I forgot who I voted for and why I voted for them almost immediately. As you can see from the couple that were quoted from though, most of my comments were of the "no idea what to say" variety.

I really enjoyed this as well, although it is a shame that no new characters that have been devised this century have made much impact (I did expect Knock Out from Prime to have made the cut).

To all intents and purposes Swerve is a new character (did anyone vote for him because of Five Faces of Darkness?), but yeah, he and Bumblebee are the only slim pickings for the new boys.

Don't anyone tell Denyer this but:

I think anyone who voted for someone because they liked the toy may have missed the point.

Oh hell, he's going to ban me, or worse, now isn't he?

Denyer
2014-04-14, 09:40 PM
I think anyone who voted for someone because they liked the toy may have missed the point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_(literary_theory)

Imagination and engineering have been at least as much to blame for me coming back this many years as anything written in words.

I wish I'd been more organised and saved my list.
Apostrophes got eaten by the form validation, but here goes...


Optimus Prime
The ultimate hero (cape optional). Own up.. hes why were here in the first place.

G1 comic Ultra Magnus
Hard. As. Nails.

G1 Ratchet (both comic and IDW MTMTE)
Just love this guy for so many reasons I cant list them all, but A (comic) taking on Megatron with the Dinobots and saving all the other Autobots, and B (MTMTE) Being a grumpy old atheist bstard who shot Overlord in the face. In. The. Face.

G1 Jazz
Because hes cool, alright So uncool he is deeply cool. And he likes to kill humans. And kidnap children. And be brainwashed.

G1 Shockwave
Because logically he HAS to be in.

G1 Prowl
Flips table Because logically he HAS to be in too.

G1 Soundwave
The most successful (and cool) Decepticon leader of all time. Has some neat toys in his chest too, if you hadnt heard.

G1 comic Blaster
I AM BATMAN.

Bumblebee Goldbug
Bit of a cheat, but two in one here. Bumblebee makes the cut for some good work in both the comics and the live action movies. Goldbug allows us to see other sides to Bees personality.

G1 Galvatron
Mad as a ping pong ball made of custard, yet still a hugely scary threat. Never, ever dull.

G1 Cyclonus
Makes being a con (or not) look good. Plus singing with Tailgate.

Starscream
Actually kind of a pathetically sympathetic character, really.

G1 Grimlock
GRIMLOCK... SMASH

G1 comic Swoop
The Dinobot with the most fleshed out character, for me.

G1 Bay movie Ironhide
Just because.

G1 comic Impactor
...a wily old buzzard. Died TWICE to save the day. Also purple Autobot

G1 Mirage
It was... full

G1 Swindle
Didnt want to include him, but he bribed me.

G1 Bombshell
Didnt want to include him, but... who am I again Vooooote fooooor Booombsheeeeelllllll...........

G1 Megatron
Had it in him to be complex and interesting. IDW are doing some interesting stuff with him, off and on.

G1 Scrounge
Had a very special arm, and (dare I say it) a very special heart. Weep.

G1 comic Scorponok
A Decepticon leader who sees the bigger picture (eventually).

G1 Sunstreaker
Because this list needed to look good, and he makes anything look good. He told me.

IDW MTMTE Chromedome
Blimey, an actual Transformers character. Has now worked out how to say Pffft. Messed with Prowls head when his back was turned. Secretly a fan of Freddy Krueger.

IDW MTMTE Whirl
Whirl is UNVINCIBLE Deal with it

G1 Wheeljack
Because Mechanical Engineers are awesome. )

IDW MTMTE Rodimus
Because leaders can suck.

G1 Silverbolt
Because being a leader can suck.

IDW Overlord
Because he is a very, very, very bad man.

Deaths Head
Best non-Transformer character ever, yes

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-04-15, 05:47 AM
Cheers, Denyer! That's brilliant. :)

Looks like I swapped G1 Dead End out for IDW Overlord at the last moment. Should've dropped Silverbolt, in hindsight. :glance:

Death's Head would've been a lot higher, but it felt a bit wrong putting a non-TF above TFs in an anniversary poll...

Auntie Slag
2014-04-15, 01:18 PM
I've never understood the fascination with Silverbolt. The only distinguishing features he had were a fear of heights and cartoon lips, and that's only just distinguishing over a bunch of identikit characters in the background. Is it just the name?

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-04-15, 04:00 PM
It is quite a cool name! I guess I find it interesting that he is a reluctant leader who struggles with his responsibility as well as his own personal demons (the fear of heights thing). I had his toy too. It had a cool gun and gold chrome. :)

Auntie Slag
2014-04-15, 06:58 PM
I guess I find it interesting that he is a reluctant leader who struggles with his responsibility as well as his own personal demons.

But angsty Prime filled that quota! I dunno, maybe I've just got a beef against Silverbolt because my mate had him and I was a bit jealous...

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-04-15, 07:14 PM
But angsty Prime filled that quota! I dunno, maybe I've just got a beef against Silverbolt because my mate had him and I was a bit jealous...

Gold chrome'll do that to ya. ;)

I too got all the Aerialbots in the gift set (the only Special Team I completed like that). However, I never had the Dinobots as a kid (bar Pretender Grimlock, who clearly doesn't count!), so I don't think we knew each other. :lol:

On a side note, the absolute most satisfying Special Team to complete for me was the Combaticons. I could not find Blast Off anywhere, and for a long, long time it appeared that Bruticus would be unable to play the piano to concert standard. Than I found him in a small toy shop in the wilds of Lowestoft, of all places. Never has a boy been happier!

Auntie Slag
2014-04-15, 07:34 PM
Now that is a very cool story. God bless small toy shops (and they've got such a special quality about them).

But how did you get the Aerialbots gift set? I didn't think those sets were available in the UK, we had to buy our Gestalt members separately. Unless you had a relative from America or somewhere who brought it over with them.

Incidentally who was your favourite Aerialbot toy? I kinda liked Slingshot because he had weird arms/hands, and his wings were unique, but I loved good old Fireflight.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-04-15, 08:15 PM
Not too sure how my parents came across it. I was a very na´ve 8 (I guess) year old, and wasn't really into which shops stocked what. Maybe the glory that was Woolies?

Hmm, my favourite Aerialbot? Well, I think you and I would have had few arguments had we played together, as I always favoured Air Raid and Skydive. Two limbs each! :) I think I preferred the black and grey decos because they looked "more realistic". Air Raid got points for being a black F15 (I mean, how cool?), while Skydive was the perhaps even cooler F16, AND he had lightning bolts on his wings. Score! :)

Nowadays I have a lot more time for Slingshot. I mean, the Harrier is an engineering marvel. That and Concorde are truly iconic designs. It's just a shame Slingshot is a bit of a dick...

Warcry
2014-04-15, 08:25 PM
Pfft, you old fogies. The G2 Aerialbots are where it's at! Skydive and Air Raid had comic-accurate blue parts, Fireflight had a wicked flame deco on his wings and Slingshot was gorgeous gold (was being the operative word in Slingshot's case, stupid GPS...)

Your Silverbolt was better than mine though, I'll give you that!

MikeB
2014-04-15, 08:34 PM
But how did you get the Aerialbots gift set? I didn't think those sets were available in the UK, we had to buy our Gestalt members separately.

You're forgetting the wondrous Aladdin's cave (or rather catalogue) of Argos. 11 months of pocket money went on that set one summer holiday...

Auntie Slag
2014-04-15, 08:39 PM
Damn, I didn't know that! Never ever saw them as a box set opportunity in Argos catalogues. And would loiter in Woolies and a big Tesco checking out all their TF's.

Not even in the funky little independent toy shop did I ever see such boxsets, and that shop was smart enough to group the new Headmasters and Targetmasters range together just to really push kids over the edge of hype. With that fancy new slightly techno-colouring that screamed NEEEEW TOY GENERATION!! Clearly much more better than the stuff that's five minutes older!

Skyquake87
2014-04-15, 10:29 PM
IIRC, both the Stunticon and Aerialbot giftsets made to some larger department centres in the UK. The Schofield Centre in Leeds had them, back in the day.

On the subject of groovy little toy shops, all my G2 toys came from a cracking little shop in Horsforth called Spider Pie (sadly long gone).

Terome
2014-04-16, 12:10 PM
A belated WELL DONE for everybody's fine work and entertaining output. Was hanging on every batch and reveal.