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View Full Version : Legit or fakes?


HotShot81
2014-03-09, 04:30 AM
Guys,
I saw The following on my local Kijiji (http://www.kijiji.ca/v-jouets-jeux/ville-de-montreal/transformers-g1-reissue-optimus-prime-generation/571317250?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true) I just need to know if they look legit or fake?

Warcry
2014-03-09, 04:41 AM
Going by what it says here (http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/17), Cosmos, Cliffjumper and Beachcomber are definite KOs. The centered hole for hanging off the pegs is apparently a dead giveaway.

Scourge too. The reddish Decepticon symbol is an obvious giveaway on the KOs.

Odds are really good all the rest of them are, too. High-quality recent KOs, but KOs nonetheless.

Sades
2014-03-10, 04:34 AM
Wish the ad hadn't come down, I'd have liked to see some high quality KOs...

And ooooooh, I bookmarked that awesome KO guide...

HotShot81
2014-03-10, 12:55 PM
I freely admit, I am like Rick Harris, I don't deal in fakes.

Give me a legit 1980s Dinobot MISB, I'd pay a solid dollar, give me a fake, I will walk away from it. You can't pay me to take it.

Denyer
2014-03-10, 08:12 PM
"Real" is an weird term to use with mass-produced things that are inherently of very little value made in an almost identical way. AFAIK they have the moulds, so it boils down to a choice between piece of plastic A that's been stored for thirty years (which has an effect on the materials) and newer piece of plastic B.

It's like having two batches of beer made to the same recipe, but the older one's gone off a bit.

Warcry
2014-03-10, 08:18 PM
Depends why you want it for, IMO. If you're just buying something to open up and play with, like me, you probably don't care. But if you're looking to own an unopened piece of history, a KO is useless to you.

Denyer
2014-03-10, 08:31 PM
I can kind of understand wanting something historical that's seen action -- war memorabilia, or a vintage car -- where you're buying a story or an idea. A toy, of which there were thousands made, that's been in a box or on a shelf unopened for a few years... particularly one that in many cases still won't get opened and enjoyed... not so much, really. It's getting towards magical thinking.

Warcry
2014-03-10, 08:39 PM
Oh, I don't get it either. But judging by all the vintage MISB collections I see pictures of, a lot of fans seem to get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-10, 09:02 PM
OK, I'm about to say something weird and potentially throw this thread off into a tangent that no-one wants, but heh. Spoilers for those who may find this too adult for a board about toys, cartoons, etc.

Y'know how the moment just before an orgasm is possibly the very best bit about sex? *

Well, my theory is that the state of excitement and anticipation MISB collectors are trying to prolong, hopefully forever, is the toy equivalent of that. They've got the toy. They have the freedom to do with it what they want (within the law!). It's right there, tempting them. But as soon as they break that seal and release the toy into the big bad world they've metaphorically shot their load, and their pleasure decreases significantly. It's all about the tension of anticipation.

* Though I am nearly certainly doing it wrong, so YMMV.

HotShot81
2014-03-10, 10:05 PM
Let your poor old Uncle Hotshot explain it.

I view my Transformer collection as part of my retirement fund, when I am 80 years old, do I really want to figure out which are legits, and which are fakes?

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-03-10, 10:18 PM
Maybe you will make a fortune off your MISB collection. Maybe not. Who knows how much interest there will be in the franchise in 20, 30, or 40 years? Seems a shame to me not to play with the toys. I mean, what is the point of a Transformer if it is never ever transformed? This is why I have no love for my MP Megatron (transformed once, never again), and why I never really got the whole Actionmaster thing. But each to their own. I can appreciate where MISB collectors are coming from. :)

On the whole KO topic, I'd like to say there are other negatives about KOs. Poor quality materials, fits and finishes are quite common. And I hate to see KOs being passed off as legit. That is just fraud, plain and simple.

Sades
2014-03-11, 03:44 AM
And what with all the things I'm reading about plastics being more toxic than previously believed (parent scaremongering garbage probably, my girl still has her plastic sippy cup and toys...), who knows. Maybe 50 years down the road, plastic will be banned or seen as a risky substance.

It's EXTREMELY unlikely, I know. But just for fun, what if it happened? Imagine if plastic toys,utensils, anything a kid could get ahold of were banned. That'd be crazy... imagine all the crap made of plastic. Kid's toys would never be the same. The world would change. So many trees gone byebye.

Cliffjumper
2014-03-11, 10:02 AM
Spending more money now so you can sell the items in the future, possibly for more or less exactly the same money as MISB prices seem very stable? Boss thinking, much better than a savings account.

If the vinegar strokes lasted 30-odd years I think they'd be less enjoyable. The best bit is the final few steps in the first transformation to robot mode when it's all coming together and (in the best cases) those neat touches are all coming into play.

inflatable dalek
2014-03-11, 08:33 PM
On the whole KO topic, I'd like to say there are other negatives about KOs. Poor quality materials, fits and finishes are quite common. And I hate to see KOs being passed off as legit. That is just fraud, plain and simple.

Whilst I agree in principle part of the problem seems to be Ebay won't let knock-offs be sold (IIRC there are some very self serving fans who report any even slightly high class bootleg looking auction, I'm not sure if they're as firm for searching down cheap and nasty pound shop steals), resulting in sellers having to be slightly circumspect.

Is there any reason the bootleggers don't just get the packaging right? They're obviously fairly hardcore fans doing this (there have to be cheaper and easier ways of making money from other peoples toys), and therefore presumably deliberately putting these little differences in there. Are they actually keen for them to be told from the real deal because they are fans? Or is that idea from that episode of The Avengers about never copying the packaging exactly when doing knock offs because it makes it easier to avoid legal prosecution actually slightly based in reality?

personally I've no huge problem with bootlegs, I'm such a sausage fingered clumsy git who should never be allowed anything nice there'd be little point me hunting down vintage G1. I've even managed to lose the gun for Masterpiece Sideswipe down the side of something. I am useless.

As for trying to make money off these things, I suspect it's a mugs game but I suppose it's going to be hard to be sure for a very long time. The real, though much much harder, way to make a profit would probably to be to work out which of today's mass release toys are going to be in demand in thirty years. Who is going to do a Guzzle or Razorback and suddenly have their previously unloved and cheap toy go up in price thanks to a juicy comic role and so on.

Probably best to have a back up pension plan either way just in case though.

Mind, obviously however people want to enjoy their toys is up to them, I think we're all going to be in a pretty big glass house sitting on a pile of stones if we start judging each others level of fannishness.

Hmm, should we add to our retirement funds by asking for a consultancy fee on this thread?


I freely admit, I am like Rick Harris,

I actually misread that as "I am like Rolf Harris", this would have been a really strange place to admit that.

Ryan F
2014-03-11, 09:19 PM
On a sort of tangent here, but as well as Transformers I'm a hardcore collector of the rock band Feeder. Although they're still going, they were popular for a couple of years around the turn of the century, when they did songs like Buck Rogers and Just A Day.

Anyway, I'd been collecting Feeder stuff since their early days (I caught them supporting Terrorvision back in '95). Anyway, as soon as they started having top ten hits, I could have sold their first single (Two Colours) on eBay for three figures.

I've seen a Japanese promo greatest hits go for over 200, and a CD of instrumental versions for 250. It was unreal, but I held off selling.

Now nobody really cares about them any more, the other month I saw a white label 12" of Buck Rogers (only six of which are known to exist) go on eBay for 25, when a few years ago it would have gone for ten times as much.

(My one claim to fame, that I'm listed on the credits of the DVD-single version of Shatter/Tender, becomes less of a boast with every passing year.)

I guess my general point is this: had I sold my Feeder collection ten years ago I could have made thousands, today its value is more sentimental than monetary. Not everything we collect will necessarily retain its value, be it an MISB Grotusque or the Indonesian Cassette version of Feel It Again.

Cliffjumper
2014-03-12, 01:27 AM
Yup... it's worth remembering that vintage G1s have already taken something of a hit from the reissue programs. They still hold a certain value but now it's not the only way of, say, getting a mint Prowl or a Hound with the gas can there's less of a feeding frenzy. I wonder how many people had an MISB Stepper put away to sell for four figures at some point? And the thing is now the reissue moulds have been cleaned up there's a fair chance they'll be out again at some point, if only in Japan (where Encore did a sterling job of knocking prices back down again just as the likes of Jazz were beginning to gain value).

It's also not impossible that at some point in the future Transformers will burn out and fandom will collapse in on itself, leaving a couple of thousand people a la 2000 with more than enough vintage toys to go around. It's happened to music collecting in general, meaning a dream buyers' market.

I dunno, it'd drive me mad to have genuine future investments tied up in something like that, let alone at risk of fading, damp, just plain being knocked off a shelf... Imagine dropping an MISB G1 and breaking the thing in the box without actually having ever transformed it. Nasty.

My G1 figs (a mix of originals and reissues) are all vaguely earmarked for sale in serious financial straights (as in I have a baby now and basically all my toys will be going if, say, I lose my job and we need to eat) but it's not a serious plan for future riches.

Clay
2014-03-12, 03:36 AM
I guess my general point is this: had I sold my Feeder collection ten years ago I could have made thousands, today its value is more sentimental than monetary. Not everything we collect will necessarily retain its value, be it an MISB Grotusque or the Indonesian Cassette version of Feel It Again.

Yep, collect it because you like it, not because of its monetary value. The watermark against collecting figures for a return on investment is that you need someone willing to buy the things to get your money back.

I will say that the current secondary market for making a return on investment for figures leans to more recent stuff, maybe the last five years or so. That is to say, earlier releases in the Classics vein, compounded by general brand awareness from the movies. Fact is that a lot of the people that want them now didn't know they existed when they came out a year before ROTF. But of course the bottom could fall out of that at the instant Hasbro decides to re-release, say, Sideswipe from 2008 as filler in a later wave.