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View Full Version : The Scioli Transformers vs GIJOE series


Terome
2014-05-23, 04:05 PM
Has anybody else picked up #0 yet? I finally got my hands on a copy and I am keen to report good things. It's as mad and well-constructed as could be hoped for, looks great and captures that eerie strangeness that early peripheral media like the Ladybird books and Battle Beneath The Ice did so well.

Also, seriously, there are some impressive comics gymnastics here. I am an indie-comics dude and already a Scioli fan so this is a much bigger sell to me than it may be to anyone else but seeing this kind of visual literacy in American licenced comics (which aren't Adventure Time - seriously, those comics just go nuts with the format in every way possible) is very satisfying.

After a lifetime of studied disinterest in GI Joe, this has actually given me a reason to maybe give some of the lore a peek. Well, this and The Venture Bros.

Denyer
2014-05-23, 06:02 PM
Got a copy of the FCBD one if that's what you mean. Do we know how many issues this is likely to be for? It's generally batshit insane in a good way.

Terome
2014-05-23, 06:09 PM
That's the one. As far as I know they are being cagey about how long they expect it to run for. I imagine they are hoping to give it enough air to burst into flames. I hope it does as can't see myself getting tired of this malarky soon. I'd like to see it get stuck into the stranger excesses of both franchises, especially if it's all treated in this casual 'another day at the office' kind of way.

Skyquake87
2014-05-23, 08:44 PM
I have the FCBD issue of this and really enjoyed it. I like the sine waves (is that what they are, have I spelt it right?) used for the Transformers talking.

The only downsides are the usual tropes for GIJ/TF x-overs - Snake Eyes origin, the Deceps teaming up with Cobra (well, just Starscream) which I suspect are the work of Barber.

The sickly four colour,uh, colours and mad design of the thing and its sort of pop-art kitsch look and feel are all awesome though. Scioli doesn't half remind me of Mike Allred when he started off on Madman. Just with more lurid colours.

Terome
2014-05-23, 09:43 PM
I have the FCBD issue of this and really enjoyed it. I like the sine waves (is that what they are, have I spelt it right?) used for the Transformers talking.


The payoff - Bumblebee's giant scream when he went under - was pretty great as well.

The only downsides are the usual tropes for GIJ/TF x-overs - Snake Eyes origin, the Deceps teaming up with Cobra (well, just Starscream) which I suspect are the work of Barber.

Is Snake-Eyes origin well mined? I dimly recall it being in the Jae Lee one but that was a long time ago. And while it is no doubt on the cards, I found that neither Transformer teamed up with a Joe faction pretty refreshing - they were just this one part of the crazy melee.

Also, hey, is that Straxus on the last page?

inflatable dalek
2014-05-23, 09:50 PM
Is this on Comixology yet? I'm assuming it will be as the Reg issue 0 from a couple of years ago was on there by the time the series started, but it wasn't out on the actual free comic book day.

So I'm biding my time.

And basically relying on you people to do my research for me.

Terome
2014-07-23, 05:56 PM
Holy hell.

That was incredible.

Scioli really pulled it off - juggling all those goofy Joe characters, putting several interesting spins on a scene and premise we've seen a dozen times before (most notably, in the new season of Robots in Disguise - this leaves that series in the dust), and doesn't make it seem as though the Transformers are playing second fiddle to the Joes even though the Joes end the issue with the definite upper hand.

The 'pre-credit' sequence with Cobra remnant in Springfield, USA was great and I liked all the gags that peppered it.

Also - best showing for Ravage in quite some time. Shockwave gets a very subsidary role but I think that's okay as he's had a big year. I'm sure he, Soundwave and Starscream will be back soon.

And I quite like the timeskip since the preview issue. I hope we get some more of those to move the franchises through their releases in good time.

inflatable dalek
2014-07-23, 06:46 PM
Well that was nuts. Brilliantly nuts. I still can't see it having the legs to be an ongoing (and considering it's basically replaced ReGeneraton One as the "Retro" book I can see it winding up more an extended maxi-series) but this initial arc should be a good laugh.

Though as Terome says, as with Reg, it does touch on several of the ideas the main books are doing at the same time, which seems like poor editing (though, here at least, those ideas look to being handled better than RID has managed thus far).

Terome
2014-07-23, 07:49 PM
Well that was nuts. Brilliantly nuts. I still can't see it having the legs to be an ongoing (and considering it's basically replaced ReGeneraton One as the "Retro" book I can see it winding up more an extended maxi-series) but this initial arc should be a good laugh.

You might be right but, at the breakneck pace its started at, I'd really like to see what this series looks like in 30 issues time.

Some predictions:
Joe and Cobra characters becoming Headmasters and Targetmasters
Unicron, Primus and any number of the Transformers pantheon showing up
Joe and Cobra built Transformers (possibly linked to the Headmasters)
Cybertron turning out to be Earth in the future
Longtooth and Shipwreck team-up
Carnivac getting lines

inflatable dalek
2014-07-23, 07:55 PM
Mildly surprised in the commentary the authors talk about taking the Joes to Cybertron being a fresh new idea, am I the only one who remembers The Art of War?

Considering they've made play of hawk's tomahawk... wasn't there a generations toy of that name? It could make a surprise appearance and team up with him.

Terome
2014-07-23, 09:38 PM
Did they do that in The Art of War? I remember the Seacons and Cobra Commander taking control of Megatron's mind and a robot Serpentor thingie and didn't Hawk get the Matrix or something? I dunno. That one where Cosmos blew up Unicron tends to edge out the other memories. The Six Million Dollar Man was in it?

Blackjack
2014-07-24, 01:43 PM
Yeah, I'm actually surprised that the verdict for this series has been almost unanimously good...

Am I the only one out there to find the dialogue extremely dull, the art terribly clunky, random scenes inserted here and there and the whole affair generally ridiculous?

I know that it's trying to go for a retro kind of look, and I respect that, but a lot of the times I find the art outright screaming bad instead of nostalgic. I'm not a big fan of the big battle scenes with badly drawn people running in the background like something from a colouring book. We've got Starscream's head randomly popping down from his jet mode, the scene with Tomax and Xamot kicking that Joe, Soundwave shaking the humans down into his chest, we've got the scene with the Joes cutting open Soundwave's chest, that horribly drawn group of jets in the background when the Decepticons landed... battle scenes in particular generally look awkward and static it all looks terrible to me.

Storywise I find the pacing tedious, and the randomly inserted 'the Plan' interlude which took a fair bit to read and realize it's a random flashback instead of something taking place concurrently because all the Duke Hawk Flint all look the same to me... random scenes of Snake-Eyes cutting down a tree, or Duke and Scarlett meeting a street prophet...

There was a couple of points when dialogue was covered by the art or other speech bubbles. Is it intentional? It looks like it's intentional. If it's supposed to be a joke of any sort I don't get it.

The random space Buddha comment? The hell is that about.

Yeah, trying to keep an open mind after absolutely loathing issue #0, and while it's an improvement I'm sorry to say that this is not a series I like at all. There are some pretty interesting concepts like the Joes using a giant space laser (granted it's something that's been done in both the first Devil's Due mini, Dreamwave's Armada and the Prime cartoon), having Snake-Eyes as this villainous vendetta-ridden maniac and having Joes invade Cybertron (and it's also been done in the third Devil's Due series) but generally the issue just feels so tedious and trying too hard to try and pull off this way of parody-not-parody storytelling that doesn't work at all for me.

Terome
2014-07-24, 02:40 PM
I can see your point, Blackjack, though I don't share it. But I can also see the ghost of my high school English teacher raging at your use of 'random!'

The space buddha line is a spin on one of my favourite koans:

http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=2903Itemid=247

The idea is that if you can kill God then he wasn't really God now, was he?

Blackjack
2014-07-24, 02:54 PM
Yeah, but that's what this issue generally feels to be. It just feel that it's bordering on parody levels of randomness (and that word really conveys how I feel about this series as a whole). One moment you have big cover page style letters pockmarking a page, and you jump from a dark-era-style 'kill a transformer violently' with Ravage getting stabbed through the head with the most ridiculous tomahawk I've ever seen, then you have this giant Cobra mothership that looks like a rejected idea from the 80's cartoon...

I get that they're attempting something different. There are a bunch of different concepts here compared to other TF/GI Joe crossovers, like Snake-Eyes being the villain, or Bumblebee dying in the first issue, or the Joes riding a spaceship to Cybertron... but the general execution of the art and scripting simply disagrees with me and I think that's saying something considering I slogged through a lot of other idiotic Transformers-related crap and never have I been so indifferent to something. I'm just surprised that I seem to be the only one out there who hates this thing, since practically every review I see is singing praises about how this is the best comic ever. Maybe I just don't "get" the retro storytelling? I dunno.

Terome
2014-07-24, 04:29 PM
I can totally understand that - Scioli is of a very academic breed of cartoonists where its taken for granted that every element is meticulously placed. For example, the thing about The Plan page is that you don't know the plan, Scarlett says that the plan is working, you turn the page and a palette shift tells you that you're in a different setting and the title cheekily tells you up front that you're being told all about The Plan now. It's a moment you're supposed to chuckle at - 'I can't believe he would go right ahead and DO that, it's so audacious!'

But then if you're not an overinvested snob like me you might not have that reaction.

I feel a lot like Professor Frink - 'No you can't play with it, you won't enjoy it on as many levels as I do... Mm-hai bw-ha whoa-hoa. The colours, children.'

Blackjack
2014-07-24, 05:04 PM
I can totally understand that - Scioli is of a very academic breed of cartoonists where its taken for granted that every element is meticulously placed.

Mmm, I'm not at all familiar with Scioli's work and to an extent I do love these kind of artists with meticulous detail on everything, except that for me at least, in the case of this particular series neither the art nor the script are catchy enough to drive enough interest for me to notice every single thing in every panel instead of just flipping the page waiting for something interesting to happen.

With most 'bad' comics I've read, usually one or the other manages to be somewhat good or at least attention-grabbing enough not for me to get so... bored, I suppose? At points the script and art just feel so childish and/or ugly that I just want to get it over quickly so any joke that hinges on me paying real close attention flies over my head. It borders on parody without actually poking fun at things and it ends up feeling blah.

For example, the thing about The Plan page is that you don't know the plan, Scarlett says that the plan is working, you turn the page and a palette shift tells you that you're in a different setting and the title cheekily tells you up front that you're being told all about The Plan now. It's a moment you're supposed to chuckle at - 'I can't believe he would go right ahead and DO that, it's so audacious!'

Yeah, it totally makes sense when I flipped back and went 'oh, they said something about a plan', but in between all the random "noise", so to speak, of random Starscream heads peeking out of the bottom of the jet and big announcements a la old comic book cover pages and the countdown numbers, well, it simply gets lost in the presentation and the joke just falls flat.

But then if you're not an overinvested snob like me you might not have that reaction.

Yeah, must chalk it up to differing tastes I suppose.

inflatable dalek
2014-07-24, 08:06 PM
Did they do that in The Art of War? I remember the Seacons and Cobra Commander taking control of Megatron's mind and a robot Serpentor thingie and didn't Hawk get the Matrix or something? I dunno. That one where Cosmos blew up Unicron tends to edge out the other memories. The Six Million Dollar Man was in it?

Nah, they went to Cybertron where Snake Eyes was able to hypnotise a Decepticon and Overkill was almost literally masturbating over the idea of having ladybots. Who could forget that?

Don't worry Blackjack, you're not alone, I've seen a few people not like it.

Blackjack
2014-07-24, 08:59 PM
Nah, they went to Cybertron where Snake Eyes was able to hypnotise a Decepticon and Overkill was almost literally masturbating over the idea of having ladybots. Who could forget that?

Yeah, Snake-Eyes hypnotized a Stunticon or something to murder Nautilator, because no one in the world loves poor old Nautilator.

Overkill and the ladybots was ridiculous. Of all the D-lister Decepticons that cameos in that massive scene, and Overkill is the one to get focus and talk about harems.

One of these days I should reread the Devil's Due crossovers. They're ridiculous.

Don't worry Blackjack, you're not alone, I've seen a few people not like it.

Ah, good. I thought I was just weird.

inflatable dalek
2014-07-25, 04:28 PM
Y
Ah, good. I thought I was just weird.


Oh, this isn't the thing that makes you weird.

Blackjack
2014-07-25, 06:22 PM
Oh, this isn't the thing that makes you weird.

Eh, all the other things I can live with.

inflatable dalek
2014-08-15, 10:59 AM
According to Chris McFeely on Twitter, this is the best selling issue of a Transformers comic in seven years. Blimey.

Auntie Slag
2014-08-15, 12:15 PM
Which seven years?

Blackjack
2014-08-15, 12:53 PM
Wat.

Terome
2014-08-15, 03:04 PM
Those are the Diamond sales numbers though - I can see this doing well in comic shops but I can't see it having the international clout on digital sales that MTMTE pulls.

That said - well deserved. I'm jonesing for an ongoing of this malarky.

Auntie Slag
2014-08-15, 03:08 PM
I'm jonesing for an ongoing of this malarky.

I hope one of the Wreckers comes out with that one day!

Terome
2014-08-15, 03:27 PM
A preview (along with that for MTMTE #32) is up here on TFW:

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/comics-16/double-itunes-preview-more-than-meets-the-eye-32-transformers-vs-gi-joe-2-180970/

Still looking good, still buying those sandwiches. Getting all The Smelting Pool-like.

And why wouldn't someone bomb Typticon on sight?

Blackjack
2014-08-15, 04:11 PM
I still dislike the art and panel structures, but it seems to flow more cohesively and be a fair bit more interesting than the previous issues. Maybe because it seems to be more Transformers-centric?

Will be giving this title another chance for at least this month, if only to see the Joes drop tree bombs on Trypticon which I do agree is good fun.

Terome
2014-08-15, 04:14 PM
I still dislike the art and panel structures, but it seems to flow more cohesively and be a fair bit more interesting than the previous issues. Maybe because it seems to be more Transformers-centric?

Will be giving this title another chance for at least this month, if only to see the Joes drop tree bombs on Trypticon which I do agree is good fun.

Good on you, Blackjack. I know it's not your cup of tea but it is fun reading what you have to say about it.

Tripredacus
2014-08-15, 05:52 PM
Hey that looks neat, like the old comics.

Terome
2014-08-27, 04:40 PM
It is in my hands! Spoilers to follow...

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Great fun, not quite as spectacular as the last issue but then what is? Once again, this book shows up IDW's other books as here we get a Trypticon that is awesome, funny and bananas. I haven't actually read Primacy but I am betting none of those adjectives can be applied to its Trypticon.

I love how falling out of a space shuttle or blowing up is basically harmless to the Joes. There's such a great sense of playtime to the whole thing.

Very impressed by some of the panel gymnastics in the early pages but some stuff I'm not too sold on - the decision to make Devastator and Trypticon appear to be the same size is a little weird and the really distorted perspective on Megatron when, um, is it Clutch? fires on him. Calling this chapter 'Targetmasters' was quite Dreamwavey too. Eyebrow-raising but no biggie.

I'm pleased that we have an introspective Megatron who chastises Autobots for not respecting the dead in MTMTE and a full blown lunatic trophy-wearing Darkseid god-king over here. That contrast was one of the best things about Regeneration One in the early days.

Weird to see Cyclonus as a silent heavy again isn't it?

Terome
2014-08-27, 04:42 PM
Just have to give a shout-out to the RGB flashlights at the end there. I don't know why that gave me so much joy but it did.

inflatable dalek
2014-08-27, 07:34 PM
the decision to make Devastator and Trypticon appear to be the same size is a little weird

Doesn't he say in the commentary that Devastator is flying so as to be closer to the camera rather than larger?

Basically more of the same, great silly fun (and really does show that it was the wrong choice for Reg to try so hard to avoid being retro, we've got a book here that's successfully doing nostalgia with a style that Transformers has never actually done before!), nice gags, nice bonkers ideas and some surprisingly nice bits of characterisation.

But, I still can't see this being sustainable for more than (at most) a six issue mini.

Terome
2014-08-27, 07:48 PM
Yeah, I got that it was an illusion. Just seemed like a weird decision. Not sure why.


But, I still can't see this being sustainable for more than (at most) a six issue mini.

I can see the reason in that but I would like to see what happens after all the obvious story beats (Joes learn difference between factions, Decepticons team up with Cobra, etc.) have been rattled through.

Blackjack
2014-08-28, 04:02 PM
Um, yeah, there's this thing. Thought it flowed better and didn't jump all over the place like a hyperactive bunny compared to the first issue. There are some nice stuff there -- I liked how the Transformers and humans didn't understand each others' language and that the Transformers' language get turned into goobleydonk when we're looking at them from the humans' point of view. It's something that's going to get tired really fast, though, so I hope next issue we get it resolved.

Humans Who Don't Know Autobots Are Good Redux #26 is roll-eyes worthy, but I can live with it for now. (The Autobots reacting in bafflement at the humans are pretty fresh, I admit...)

I also find the idea of bombing Cybertron with plant bombs, copied from Beast Machines as it is, to be a nice little thing and extremely appropriate when used by humans against robots.

I liked the Perceptor scene, I guess? Also Megatron being a psychopath and shooting people randomly. Scarlett zipping around in her bike isn't bad either. Also, Mirage using his 'mirage' powers instead of just being invisible? I do love it when that happens.

I still think there's waaaay too many characters. None of the Joes stand out at all other than Scarlett and Flagg, and I don't particularly care when Random Bearded Joe #24 who we've never seen before until this panel suicide bombs Devastator and dies except nope not really he makes it out alive. Did the Joe that shot Megatron in the face survive? I don't know, I don't care, I don't even know his name. On the same token, anyone who's interested in GI Joe first and reads this won't give a shit that, oh, Scourge or the center Constructicon (Long Haul?) died.

The ones that do get attention -- Perceptor, Brawn, Mirage and Scarlett get a fair showing this time around, I think.

Yeah, the retro look... not really working for me at all. A lot of the art straight-out made me cringe at how terribly blocky they are. Devastator's head is ridiculously gigantic (and ugly in general), the scene of Devastator disassembling is just awkward to look at, Cyclonus and the Insecticons straight-up look like a five year old drew them, Devastator punching through the Joe ship looked bad. And a bunch of the dialogue is rendered as ridiculously gigantic sound effect things -- Scarlett shouting Wild Bill's name, Devastator saying his name, Megatron going all 'Mirage' and all that... I just can't bring myself to like it.

Yes, yes, retro, I realize... doesn't mean you have to intentionally draw the robots like a child's poorly proportioned scribbles. Look at Trypticon. He looks retro and he looks great. So did the four Autobots and most of the humans. You don't have to intentionally disfigure them like Cyclonus and Insecticons... it's just freaking painful to look at and looks a lot worse than the actual Marvel art produced in the 80's. I can draw better than that and I'm not even trained to do art.

I'm not sure why the Decepticons that turn into jets fly around in little Star Wars platform things.

Also, the dialogue just makes me cringe. It's like golden age old -- which is retro I guess? And it just flows badly and feels unnatural as we jump from intentionally-bad-flowery dialogue to more conventional ones.

In my opinion this one flowed a lot better than issues #0 and #1, both which basically gave me a migraine after finishing it. Did drag along a little though. Overall I still don't like it -- neither the pacing nor the dialogue nor the art appeal to me, and especially compared to the strong MTMTE issue and the pretty good RID one I read just moments ago, this one just feels really bad in comparison. It's just not for me, I know, but hey, opinions.

Terome
2014-08-28, 05:33 PM
Glad you're finding a couple of things to like in here. Most of the things you single out as annoying I found to be pretty funny.

I agree that I had no idea who most of the Joes were and if the Wild Bill moment was a reference to something then it was lost on me. I imagine that GI Joe fans probably feel the same way about the Transformers characters. I do quite like the sensation of 'Who the hell is that guy?' I think Thundercracker and Skywarp were like that to me up until I started reading TMUK fanfic. I'm thankful for the File Card device which serves as some acknowledgement that we shouldn't necessarily be able to tell one Insecticon from another without checking back to reference.

Also, the dialogue just makes me cringe. It's like golden age old -- which is retro I guess? And it just flows badly and feels unnatural as we jump from intentionally-bad-flowery dialogue to more conventional ones.

I dunno, this is punchy stuff compared to the standard Jack Kirby comic.

I'm not sure why the Decepticons that turn into jets fly around in little Star Wars platform things.

I think that's deliberately odd and that the little platform things are also Decepticons.

The ones that do get attention -- Perceptor, Brawn, Mirage and Scarlett get a fair showing this time around, I think.

Yeah, despite the large cast list there aren't many protagonists and the intentions of each are very clear. I like how Flagg is a background character for this issue and presumably Wheeljack is going to be a protagonist in the next issue even though he was barely a presence here.

I also find the idea of bombing Cybertron with plant bombs, copied from Beast Machines as it is, to be a nice little thing and extremely appropriate when used by humans against robots.

Scioli's pretty new to Transformers and although he's done a lot of homework I do wonder if he's found Beast Machines. This does seem to be a deliberate echo of that situation.

Blackjack
2014-08-29, 04:30 AM
Most of the things you single out as annoying I found to be pretty funny.

We have to agree to disagree then... not trying to attack you personally or anything like that, but the things I found annoying, well, I found them to be really annoying. Just differing tastes, I suppose.

if the Wild Bill moment was a reference to something then it was lost on me.

Wild Bill's an actual first-year/second-year G.I. Joe character and I'm pretty sure it's just a moment to make him look cool... I just don't care about him because other than being in the background in other Joe crossovers I've never seen him do anything before until now.

Besides if it's supposed to be a reference I'm sure the commentary would point it out.

I'm thankful for the File Card device

It helps to tell everyone apart for first-timers, though the Transformers arguably got it better -- there are less than a dozen Transformers in any issue, and they're mostly distinctive from each other. The Joes, though? I glanced at the TFWiki page and there are nearly thirty in this issue alone and none of them stand out other than Scarlett and Wild Bill.

I dunno, this is punchy stuff compared to the standard Jack Kirby comic.

Really? I've never read a Jack Kirby comic in my life...

I did read a fair bit of golden age DC comics, and I don't think any had dialogue that made me as irritated as this, though.

I think that's deliberately odd and that the little platform things are also Decepticons.

If it's deliberate then it's kind of dumb IMO. It's bad enough that they're drawn horribly...

Eh, it's a relatively minor niggle, I guess.

Scioli's pretty new to Transformers and although he's done a lot of homework I do wonder if he's found Beast Machines. This does seem to be a deliberate echo of that situation.

I think it's just a coincidence -- most of their commentary reference nothing but the Marvel comics and the 80's cartoon -- though I wouldn't put it past Barber to suggest the idea.

Terome
2014-08-29, 10:14 AM
We have to agree to disagree then... not trying to attack you personally or anything like that, but the things I found annoying, well, I found them to be really annoying. Just differing tastes, I suppose.

No offense taken! Not out to convert anyone. I'm having fun discussing this over with you.

Really? I've never read a Jack Kirby comic in my life...

I did read a fair bit of golden age DC comics, and I don't think any had dialogue that made me as irritated as this, though.

There are some cracking examples of Kirby unleashed over in this exhaustive essay about his 2001: A Space Odyessy adaptation:

http://sequart.org/magazine/20670/on-jack-kirbys-2001-a-space-odyssey-adaptation/

Wild Bill's an actual first-year/second-year G.I. Joe character and I'm pretty sure it's just a moment to make him look cool... I just don't care about him because other than being in the background in other Joe crossovers I've never seen him do anything before until now.

I realise now that he had some sort of role in Ancient Relics that I can't quite remember. I wonder if he will do anything again in this series.

I think it's just a coincidence -- most of their commentary reference nothing but the Marvel comics and the 80's cartoon -- though I wouldn't put it past Barber to suggest the idea.

I agree that's probably the case. Though if this series does make the double digits and Scioli becomes more immersed I can see Beast Wars coming up in a more obvious way. I wouldn't be surprised if Animorphs and Rock Lords crop up by the end...

Blackjack
2014-08-29, 11:19 AM
No offense taken! Not out to convert anyone. I'm having fun discussing this over with you.

Yeah, I'm happy to discuss something with someone I have the polar opposite opinion of without it devolving into a flame war.

There are some cracking examples of Kirby unleashed over in this exhaustive essay about his 2001: A Space Odyessy adaptation:

Glanced through the panels and it looked a lot better than the GI Joe/Transformers stuff... looks a lot better than the madness in the crossover, certainly.

I realise now that he had some sort of role in Ancient Relics that I can't quite remember. I wonder if he will do anything again in this series.

Hopefully? If they made Wild Bill important in this chapter and not reuse him in subsequent issues it would mean we'll just be jumping from random Joe to random Joe and just going 'look at this cool guy' and then 'look at this other cool guy'.

I agree that's probably the case. Though if this series does make the double digits

Is there any actual number of issues planned out by IDW yet? 6? 12?

inflatable dalek
2014-10-13, 08:08 PM
[I assume Terome hasn't gotten around to starting this due to spending his time making two hour YoUtube videos that-annoyingly- have better picture quality than mine ;)]

Only managed to find the time for this today (I'm a busy man!). Have to say, I think this is the point the gag starts to wear thin, there's nothing inherently wrong here and it's as good as the previous two issues, but there's only so far you can stretch this conceit and I think this is where it starts to show. A few nice gags aside (Bumblebee's head as a necklace!) it's more of the same. I really can't see this being sustainable past a six issue mini.

Terome
2014-10-13, 09:48 PM
[I assume Terome hasn't gotten around to starting this due to spending his time making two hour YoUtube videos that-annoyingly- have better picture quality than mine ;)]

Only managed to find the time for this today (I'm a busy man!). Have to say, I think this is the point the gag starts to wear thin, there's nothing inherently wrong here and it's as good as the previous two issues, but there's only so far you can stretch this conceit and I think this is where it starts to show. A few nice gags aside (Bumblebee's head as a necklace!) it's more of the same. I really can't see this being sustainable past a six issue mini.

I hadn't gotten around to it as my PC was stolen some time ago and as soon as I got a new one I started cranking out two hour Youtube videos with sleek, silky picture quality. Also I appear to be in South Africa. I have read it now.

Disagree on the premise wearing thin - I was pretty excited by the elasticity of the design on this one. The attack on the USS Flagg was kind of spectacular but the map was the real highlight for me. Also, the false endings and the bizarre 'silent moment' bit had me in polite applause.

Hell, now I'm getting started, there are those six file cards for Destro, the Sharkticon sequence, the 'a Real American Hero' tagline and the line 'No mercy from Percy.'

See I don't think of this is about Transformers or GI Joe. This comic is about wacky experiments with and contortions of the licensed action book form. That is like catnip to me. This issue made it seem like Scioli is just warming up.

Only bit I didn't like - 'Energonic boom!' Felt like it was one reference too many. Not sure why.

inflatable dalek
2014-10-15, 07:50 AM
I hadn't gotten around to it as my PC was stolen some time ago and as soon as I got a new one I started cranking out two hour Youtube videos with sleek, silky picture quality. Also I appear to be in South Africa. I have read it now.

I like the use of the word "Appear" there, as if it all might be a fiendish Mission Impossible style trick to fool you into admitting your crimes.

I might experiment with doing my next video on my phone, with screen mirroring I can have it on the TV as I'm recording so as to keep an eye on the picture and the camera should be better than the inward facing one on my tablet (though why are the "Selfie" cameras not as good as the outward facing ones on these devices anyway?).

As for the comic... I don't know, it just feel like variations on the same theme. Take an established Joe/Transformers idea, put a bonkers twist on it, them rinse and repeat. It's also starting to feel a bit as if by throwing every idea that goes through the heads of the authors into the comic none of them are going to be explored properly before the next 50 mad bits arrive.

By itself though, it's still good fun. It just needs to settle and do something other than be Bonkers now.

Terome
2014-10-15, 06:45 PM
I like the use of the word "Appear" there, as if it all might be a fiendish Mission Impossible style trick to fool you into admitting your crimes.


They are doing a decent enough job with the deception, the general sense of menace is intact, though a lot of the restaurants are different. Next time, chumps!

I might experiment with doing my next video on my phone, with screen mirroring I can have it on the TV as I'm recording so as to keep an eye on the picture and the camera should be better than the inward facing one on my tablet (though why are the "Selfie" cameras not as good as the outward facing ones on these devices anyway?).


This sounds suspiciously like wizardry. You mean those cameras on all these old phones I've got lying around can be used as actual cameras? Now I just need some precious little stands.

As for the comic... I don't know, it just feel like variations on the same theme. Take an established Joe/Transformers idea, put a bonkers twist on it, them rinse and repeat. It's also starting to feel a bit as if by throwing every idea that goes through the heads of the authors into the comic none of them are going to be explored properly before the next 50 mad bits arrive.

By itself though, it's still good fun. It just needs to settle and do something other than be Bonkers now

Does it? I mean, does anyone care about where the plot is going? I'm not here to see if Wheeljack is okay or if Snake Eyes has joined Cobra or not. I want something to move us from one weird set piece to another. It's like a musical but instead of songs we've got comics gymnastics.

Blackjack
2014-10-18, 04:01 PM
I had a long, well typed out review thing going on but Google Chrome ate it. So, eh, have it in point form.

Basically the thought of yet another issue devoted to reviving another dead character galled me so much. Rewind was relatively well-done, but Wheeljack's death was one of the better parts of Robots in Disguise, and since it's apparently just going to be 'Wheeljack comes back to life, sets off Combiner Wars', screw that shit.

Stuff I like:
Doctor Venom and Shipwreck's scene, and Venom shooting that Dreadnok in the head, is relatively well done. I have no idea if we've seen Venom before, and why the other Joes are such assholes to him, but I do like the scenes with him.
The un-twist about Hawk dying isn't something I didn't see coming, but I thought the 'will this series do it or not' in regards to killing Hawk off was actually pretty good, what with them killing Bumblebee one issue in.
Straxus cackling in the background is funny as hell
Shockwave going all angry about Soundwave was a bit off before we learn that Soundwave is Shockwave's brother in this continuity
Metroplex as this city that crawls through Cybertron like a starfish is a great concept
The Dinobots' caveman language being justified as them not learning the language is a good one
VAN DAMME
Sharkticon pool is random and I like it
Destro's intro with the multiple file things is great "Gun Maker!" "Life Taker!" "Money Raker!"
Destro's entourage dying from the space bridge
The Joes tearing Wheeljack apart is pretty horrific despite the bad art

Stuff I don't like:
Pacing is still shit
Story is still shit
Giant letter things are still shit and pretty stupid, especially in that page where Brawn, Mirage and 'Percy' jump and charge at the Joes. 'No Mercy From Percy' is incredibly wince-inducing.
Art is unbelievably shit -- the aircraft carrier in the early pages look like a five year old drew it in under five minutes, Swoop looks like poop as well. Could go on and on.
The Bumblecycle is ridiculous
Grimlock's turtleneck jaw thing is stupid
Destro literally just pops out of nowhere and heads off to Cybertron
Destro seems to be just shoved in because the writers like him and want to make him THE awesome human thing that Megatron somehow really is impressed of
The battle between Brawn's team and the Joes are unbelievably stupid. Not just because it's 50% POW BAM BOOM, but I can't believe that the Joes actually manage to kill the Autobots that easily. Do like the little eulogy to their fight, though
So many things going on -- Grimlock's party, Brawn/Wheeljack/Scarlett's party, the Baroness, Hawk, Megatron and Destro, Starscream and Shockwave, Soundwave and Venom... and since the authors basically just go 'hey these two guys wiped each other out in an anticlimatic fight' with one of these groups, and while it's a nice subversion sort of, I'm not having much confidence we'll get anything good out of the rest of this thing.

Overall? I still think this is a disjoined thing, and definitely worse than the previous issue but at least it is trying to be as insane as possible. Still dislike it strongly, but I've read worse -- unlike the first two issues, this one doesn't give me a headache, and there are two points that I actually giggled (VAN DAMME and Straxus laughing) so this is the only one in the series that got me to do that, so it's got that going for it.

Terome
2014-10-18, 04:12 PM
Stuff I don't like:[LIST]
Pacing is still shit


It's weird as hell, and while I know it's deliberate it does feel like something that maybe shouldn't be twisted about this much.



The Bumblecycle is ridiculous


It really is, and is a good example of Dalek's complaint of setting up something for it to go nowhere. The Sepentress VS Flagg panel was fun but I was left wondering if that Bumblecycle will be a thing or if it's over now.


Destro literally just pops out of nowhere and heads off to Cybertron
Destro seems to be just shoved in because the writers like him and want to make him THE awesome human thing that Megatron somehow really is impressed of


We did see him earlier but his status as The Coolest Guy has only just been established. I don't know much about the character's history but I am guessing that the idea that he is partly mechanical isn't an invention of this series. Either way, it felt like Cobra, having set up a relationship with the Decepticons through Starscream, would send their ancient cyborg guy to chat with Megatron.

The battle between Brawn's team and the Joes are unbelievably stupid. Not just because it's 50% POW BAM BOOM, but I can't believe that the Joes actually manage to kill the Autobots that easily. Do like the little eulogy to their fight, though

Looked like some kind of... Kryptonite arrow? I did quite like the PEW PEW PEW ALL DEAD NOW feel of that page put it might have been helped with a little bit more space. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that everyone involved is probably fine. The toy-logic of the story seems to say that everyone is invincible unless there is drama involved.

Blackjack
2014-10-18, 04:38 PM
It's weird as hell, and while I know it's deliberate it does feel like something that maybe shouldn't be twisted about this much.

Yeah, there's too much going on, and despite it being deliberate I think this issue just goes all haywire with the pacing. I thought it would do a lot more good just focusing on the Earth cast and maybe Destro/Megatron, and leave the rest of the Cybertron party for the next issue.

We did see him earlier but his status as The Coolest Guy has only just been established. I don't know much about the character's history but I am guessing that the idea that he is partly mechanical isn't an invention of this series. Either way, it felt like Cobra, having set up a relationship with the Decepticons through Starscream, would send their ancient cyborg guy to chat with Megatron.

In the stories I've read Destro has always had a metal mask burned onto his face, though I'm not sure if he's a cyborg or not.

I do like the fact that Destro is established as The Coolest Guy, but the story's building up to Mary Sue him to death and I don't like that. I didn't quite catch if Destro is working with the Decepticobra (which is as stupid a name as any, by the way) led by Baroness, or if he's his own party, but I guess they're all on the same Decepticobra side.

The fact that we jump from Duke infiltrating Cobra in the middle of the Baroness assault straight into 'HEY LOOK DESTRO' is just jarring and pretty bad pacing IMO.

Looked like some kind of... Kryptonite arrow?

It looked like a Green Arrow style 'grenade at the tip of an arrow', which doesn't look like it could take out all three Autobots.

I did quite like the PEW PEW PEW ALL DEAD NOW feel of that page put it might have been helped with a little bit more space. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that everyone involved is probably fine. The toy-logic of the story seems to say that everyone is invincible unless there is drama involved.

I liked the final panel, but the battle really felt like the writers just trying too hard to subvert the 'epic fight' thing (despite wasting an entire page for NO MERCY FROM PERCY) with just a bunch of words, and completely failing to do anything but look ridiculously inept.

And, yeah, they're all probably fine. Or dead. I don't really care either way.

Personally feel the story would be more interesting if they're all dead, if the good guys are going to have to deal their friends killing (and getting killed by) the friends of the other good guy team, and vice versa, and it's certainly something no Joe crossover had done before, but I'm not sure if this series is going to touch upon that, or even do it well beyond going all 'WELL NOPE WE'RE JUST GOING TO SUBVERT EVERY TROPE AND JUST SOLVE IT IN ONE PANEL' like every damn thing that's been going on in this series.