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Neuronutter
2014-06-25, 11:04 PM
Nick Roche posted about this on Facebook and I thought I'd post about it here. IGN did a run down of the top 5 Transformer comics. Here's the link:

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/06/25/top-5-transformers-comic-books

Both AHM and Regenerations One made the list. Hilarious.

Blackjack
2014-06-25, 11:14 PM
The fact that Regeneration One made it over generally the entire freaking Marvel and IDW output hurts me.

In my soul.

Neuronutter
2014-06-25, 11:15 PM
The fact that Regeneration One made it over generally the entire freaking Marvel and IDW output hurts me.

In my soul.

Yup. Usually these lists are the best comics ever made not just the ones you happen to have read recently. The lack of MTMTE is also very painful.

inflatable dalek
2014-06-27, 01:53 PM
Obviously these things are subjective, but that does seem an odd list. I think even their biggest fans would acknowledge AHM and Reg were series of peaks and troughs. The inclusion of the later as "One" story is especially odd when it was, what, four/five arcs?

Matrix Quest is all over the place quality wise as well, there's two issues that an argument could be made for inclusion on the list and one fun if a bit silly conclusion, but surely no one thinks Cowboy Vampires and Moby Longtooth are where it's at?

Neuronutter
2014-06-27, 05:32 PM
It seems less a list of the best Transformer comics and more a list of the series the reviewer happens to have read. It's a shame as previous lists on the site seemed very comprehensive. The run down of the best Spidey and X-Men comics came from a guy who had actually sat down and read every Spidey comic of the past 75 (or however many it was) years. At least that's what he said on the podcast :). This doesn't seem anywhere near as well researched.

Red Dave Prime
2014-06-27, 05:48 PM
At least wreckers is number one. Fair enough says I.

Neuronutter
2014-06-27, 06:44 PM
At least wreckers is number one. Fair enough says I.

But no MTMTE and the list includes AHM and Regeneration One. Throw in Megatron Origin and Costa's run and you've almost got a worst 5 TF comics list!

Wreckers at the top of the list is good though!

Cyberstrike nTo
2014-06-27, 10:46 PM
Wreckers at the top of the list is good though!



Last Stand of the Wreckers is a good series but it is nowhere as great as Chaos Theory is.

Red Dave Prime
2014-06-28, 06:49 AM
Last Stand of the Wreckers is a good series but it is nowhere as great as Chaos Theory is.

Depends on your point of view but while i have huge love for both, lsotw is the one i would re-read and would show to non tf fans as just being a good read. Ct is also a little un even for me. Great first issue, slightly disappointing second as it shifts to an action story. Nothing wrong there but the issues don't feel like a two parter beyond the framing device.

Horses for courses and both should have been on there but for me wreckers is the one all others should aim for.

And shadowplay could easily have been on this list.

Neuronutter
2014-06-28, 11:39 AM
Last Stand of the Wreckers is a good series but it is nowhere as great as Chaos Theory is.

Last Stand is probably my favourite stand alone TF story from the last ten years, maybe longer. IMO Chaos Theory is nothing special, like the entire Costa run. I could happily forget that run happened and be happy with RID and MTMTE.

Cyberstrike nTo
2014-06-28, 06:53 PM
Last Stand is probably my favourite stand alone TF story from the last ten years, maybe longer. IMO Chaos Theory is nothing special, like the entire Costa run. I could happily forget that run happened and be happy with RID and MTMTE.

Chaos Theory is as far as I am concerned James Roberts' first masterpiece, nothing he has wrote before or since has IMHO quite lived up to it...yet, he did in 2 issues that no one could have done 30 years in any media he rewrote how I looked Optimus Prime and Megatron and made me re-examine my own outlook on top of that. He also made them both complex three dimensional and interesting characters again after a very long time of both of them being turned into 2 dimensional bland good guy and bad guy with no real depth and complexity. And he did all that in 2 issues while many other writers might have been able to pull all that off in 25 issues, if at all.

Too me The Last Stand of The Wreckers is trying to hard to be smart and meaningful and to me comes off as extremely pretentious at best or a just glorified fanwank at worst. It's a book that I really want to love but I can't for some weird reason. I liked it but I didn't love it.

Skyquake87
2014-06-28, 09:03 PM
What? No Generation 2 either?!

What a big load of balls this list is. No 'Legacy Of Unicron' or all that awesome UK stuff. Bah! Rubbish.

Pleased that Wreckers gets its kudos. I like it also, and it is great, but its quite brutal and grim and I found the forced humor with Rotorstorm in the first issue a bit painful. It still represents the first time since the Transformers returned to comics that there was something worthwhile in their four colour adventures, after a near decade of dross and disappointment. Its a shame that Wreckers doesn't seemed to have opened the door for regular comics readers, and that stuff like MTMTE is pretty much selling only to the faithful.

I think Wreckers may have been eclipsed for me by Shadowplay. Whilst War is horrible and leads to some real nastiness, there's something far more sinister to me about a governing structure that can strip away your sense of self and who you are . I still get chills from that last page in part 3. Brr. I think I liked this so much because of reading 1984 and seeing Brazil, and seeing how the way you think can be controlled seems more concerning to me.

I didn't catch the follow up stuff in RID (and Dark Cybertron kind of answered this for me. and, sigh, I wish it hadn't) , but I am fascinated by what became of Senator Shockwave when he woke after that experience. How did he feel? Could he feel? (well no, obviously, but what was it like for him?) What was he thinking of himself? Could he remember who he was and where he fitted into the world?

Tetsuro
2014-06-29, 10:01 AM
I'm just pointing this out, I would take anything a website that keeps giving CoD games consistently high scores says with a massive grain of salt.

Just sayin'.

Knightdramon
2014-06-29, 10:46 AM
LOL it's an obvious attention grab. Movies come out based on comic/toy franchises, they put up some useless top 5 list of things they just googled.

F*ck, at first it is some series, then a 4 issue mini from Marvel, then series again.

I can see their reasoning behind the choices;

#5--Let's pick up the one we just wikkied about picking up after the original series--geeks love that. Oh, I just read it has pacing issues. Just pick a random point and say it gets better after it [the series actually got WORSE from issues 85-90odd]

#4--Then let's pick up a fan favourite from THAT point. Actually this was the best Dreamwave ever put out, so fair points for that.

#3--Hmmm...let's see the title---it sounds definitive. Oh it has twelve issues as well, it's a large number. Yeah let's go with it.

#2--Yeah, it has "matrix" on the title, matrix is something Optimus is said to have, yeah, let's put this in.

#1--Let's pick the favourite from our google search, write a very generic prose on why fans like it, gathered from segments of wiki entries and generalized to death, and call it a day.

List made!! :lol:

Skyquake87
2014-06-29, 12:18 PM
I do seem to recall that Matrix Quest was fondly regarded up until the point people actually got to read it again, probably helped by it feeling more epic in the UK as it was split of over upteen issues. I found all the film and literary pastiches annoying and the very worst kind of 'post- modern' take on these things. The Alien one is probably the best of the bunch.

The best of Furman's stuff on the original US book for me is his opening 'Return Of Megatron' story, which despite all the coincidence in it, is very tightly plotted and structured and the stuff from #69 - 75, which is full of great character stuff and manouvrerings building up to big old punch up with Unicron.

Neuronutter
2014-06-30, 12:39 PM
Chaos Theory is as far as I am concerned James Roberts' first masterpiece, nothing he has wrote before or since has IMHO quite lived up to it...yet, he did in 2 issues that no one could have done 30 years in any media he rewrote how I looked Optimus Prime and Megatron and made me re-examine my own outlook on top of that. He also made them both complex three dimensional and interesting characters again after a very long time of both of them being turned into 2 dimensional bland good guy and bad guy with no real depth and complexity. And he did all that in 2 issues while many other writers might have been able to pull all that off in 25 issues, if at all.

Oh, right. Chaos Theory contains those two issues. They are excellent issues and I agree that they redefine Prime and Megatron. I forget those issues are in that trade as most of the issues are Costas.

To me The Last Stand of The Wreckers is trying to hard to be smart and meaningful and to me comes off as extremely pretentious at best or a just glorified fanwank at worst. It's a book that I really want to love but I can't for some weird reason. I liked it but I didn't love it.

I still love LSoTW. It's one of those stories, like MTMTE, that I read with a big grin on my face and, as Red Dave Prime said, it's a story I would give to non-TF fans to enjoy and I think they would. Actually I have bought that trade for people like that and they have enjoyed it.

Cliffjumper
2014-07-01, 11:40 PM
I have no ****ing idea what's going on here, so here's a shitty meme as I'm compelled to ****ing post anyway. I wonder why everyone thinks I'm a massive twat?

Depends on your point of view

Let's say some people's point of view is thoughtless contrariness masquerading as idiosyncratic tastes, eh?


1/ G2
2/ Target 2006
3/ Last Stand
4/ Legacy of Unicron
5/ Prey

inflatable dalek
2014-07-02, 08:08 PM
I think G2 has a few too many wobbles early on for the whole thing to count myself. My list would be (in mainly random order):



Legacy of Unicron;
Edge of Extinction;
A Rage in Heaven [Furman may be weak at climaxes generally, but when he gets them right, he gets them right];
Chaos Theory;
The Big Shutdown [Probably the perfect example of a "Small" Transformers story].

Target: 2006 probably has all the best iconic moments but things like a lot of the Cybertron stuff being completely irrelevant (the Wreckers change their minds about going on the mission, then they change them back meaning you can not read that whole issue and miss nothing; the Tripple Changers getting a massive intro before becoming non-speaking extras) lets it down a bit.

Cliffjumper
2014-07-03, 01:42 AM
Is irrelevance really a problem? Nightbeat is irrelevant in Edge of Extinction.

Tetsuro
2014-07-03, 07:09 AM
I have no ****ing idea what's going on here, so here's a shitty meme as I'm compelled to ****ing post anyway. I wonder why Cliffjumper thinks I'm a massive twat?
And that just burns you up, don't it.

I mean really, for a guy who supposedly had me on his ignore list, you sure can't resist complaining about me anyway.

Cliffjumper
2014-07-03, 01:07 PM
And that just burns you up, don't it.

Nope. I just think you're a ****.

I mean really, for a guy who supposedly had me on his ignore list, you sure can't resist complaining about me anyway.

It was pointed out to me that as staff I probably shouldn't have someone on my ignore list, especially someone who has a habit of ambling into topics they don't understand and attempting to derail them with OT attention-seeking nonsense.

"Hay guyz, I'm ignorant about what this topic's about so I'm going to put in a post about something else in the hope that someone will think I'm as cool and funny as I think I am.

Guyz?

Guyz?

GUYZ?"

Tetsuro
2014-07-03, 02:23 PM
Nope. I just think you're a ****.
Well it clearly does, then.

Because if that's really your impression then I'm sorry - but you probably should just get over yourself.

Red Dave Prime
2014-07-03, 05:25 PM
Nope. I just think you're a ****.



It was pointed out to me that as staff I probably shouldn't have someone on my ignore list, especially someone who has a habit of ambling into topics they don't understand and attempting to derail them with OT attention-seeking nonsense.

"Hay guyz, I'm ignorant about what this topic's about so I'm going to put in a post about something else in the hope that someone will think I'm as cool and funny as I think I am.

Guyz?


Guyz?

GUYZ?"

Quite a lot of agro there. Warranted?

Neuronutter
2014-07-03, 05:28 PM
Quite a lot of agro there. Warranted?

That's what I was wondering. Why did this thread turn into Cliffy vs Tetsuro and why?

inflatable dalek
2014-07-03, 08:04 PM
As Tetsuro has had his right of reply, I think it would be better if everyone (mods included) drop this now.

Is irrelevance really a problem? Nightbeat is irrelevant in Edge of Extinction.

I'd say the small character vignettes are the entire point of Edge rather than an irrelevance, it's showing how different characters react (and mostly fail to deal with) the devil turning up rather than being about a main plot through-line, a rather neat idea considering it was written on the assumption it would be the last ever piece of Transformers fiction, it's a means of trying to give as many of the characters a last bow as it can possibly manage.

I'd say Nightbeat's cameo in Rage is more problematic on that score, not that the idea of the Transformers having to go all kamikaze to deal with the Swarm is a bad one, it's just Megatron shows up with the cure for what ails him about thirty seconds after the detective's sacrifice.

of course, I get one of the problems with serialised fiction where you're working to a predetermined page count is that you will often have irrelevant moments to make things fit, but for something to count as the best to me it really all has to pull together as close to perfectly as possible.

That's where Legacy has the edge for me, there are plenty of great set pieces but pretty much every moment advances the story in some form, either providing new information, changing character relationships or altering the status quo. It's probably the tightest "Epic" of the entire Marvel run, the closest it comes to irrelevance is the business about Rodimus being pissed with Smokescreen, mainly because it gets no resolution (Wreck Gar turns out to be alive but there's nothing to say Rodimus isn't ****ed with Smokescreen still for the rest of all time), and that's a very minor thread.

Tetsuro
2014-07-04, 08:26 AM
All I wanted to say that one shouldn't place too much faith in something a site like IGN says, but I probably used a pretty terrible example of that.

I mean, in terms of keeping track of pop culture history, I think the video they made about the background of Pacific Rim would probably be a better one. I bet the only reason Mazinger Z was even mentioned in that one was because that's the one Del Toro actually titledropped in his interviews. Neon Genesis Evangelion? Turns out he never even watched that one. Whoops!

Bumblemus Prime
2014-08-26, 03:32 PM
Ugh, this list is terrible, saving Wreckers of course.

We had this discussion over at Transfans if anyone wants to chip in: http://transfans.co.uk/community/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8812

TL; DR? Criteria was that it had to fit in a trade paperback.

Option one was:

5- Shadowplay
4- Unicron Saga
3- Chaos Theory
2- Last Stand of the Wreckers
1- Generation 2

Option two:

5 - How Ratchet Got His Hands Back
4- Target 2006
3- Unicron Saga
2- State Games
1- Chaos Theory