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inflatable dalek
2014-06-28, 02:21 PM
August 23rd, with a "Feature Length episode" (a term that's causing all sorts of fun confusion from Americans in the TrekBBS thread who don't realise than in British TV that just means "Twice as long as normal" and as such are trying desperately to work out the average formal length of a proper theatrical film) in a episode about "Jack the Ripper".


Well, I suppose it had to happen sooner or later (though Vastra's first episode and the inverted commas at least suggest they're doing something different with it).

The first teaser trailer:

7HaiGKiUuik


My watching of Poirot has had episodes in the last week with an insanely young looking Capaldi and Eccleston in them, the later was surprising as mentally he's one of those actors I think of as never really changing.

Skyquake87
2014-06-28, 08:48 PM
Vesta...? The freeze-dried curries from the 1970s? What?

inflatable dalek
2014-06-28, 11:46 PM
It'll be a red hot, explosive episode.

And by remembering frozen food from the 1970's you're showing your age Granddad.



[/deflection]

Skyquake87
2014-06-29, 08:07 AM
Ha! You may mock, but it seemed like food from the future! Like that Episode of Henry's Cat where they are eating little blue food pills and are spacemen on The Fabulous Flying Carrot...

Yes, its just like that.

On topic, ooh moody trailer.

Denyer
2014-06-29, 10:06 AM
Hopefully the series will have a bit more whimsy than it seems to be starting off with.

Summerhayes
2014-07-05, 04:19 PM
He had a fairly flamboyant costume and he started by talking about the colour of his kidneys, so I'm sure there will be ample whimsy. They always make it look moody in the adverts, because that's what everyone watches Doctor Who for. Right?

Skyquake87
2014-07-06, 08:13 AM
New Teaser Trailer popped up the other day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbX4tNG_k3s

Summerhayes
2014-07-06, 10:38 PM
Hmmm... So we're getting the daleks again? They really need a good, long break...

Sades
2014-07-09, 06:19 PM
Hey, what episode is this from? Doesn't look familiar to me.

eak26ohx1Y8

Denyer
2014-07-09, 06:36 PM
Silver Nemesis, by the looks of it.

Denyer
2014-07-14, 07:04 PM
Spotted the script leaks news over lunch, and semi-spoiler-free write up here:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/67963

Sounds good. :up:

inflatable dalek
2014-07-14, 08:09 PM
The first episode is out there as well, I think part of the problem being it's getting screenings all over the world the best part of a month before it's TV broadcast meaning it's out there and ready to fall into sneaky hands a lot earlier than normal.

In terms of one of the long established but oft-ignored aspects of the show this season is going to be acknowledging, my bet would be on:



Susan. After all, he looks like a Granddad again now...

Denyer
2014-07-14, 09:36 PM
That'd be cool. Unlikely to have chance to read scripts this week, but interested to do so.

Skyquake87
2014-07-14, 10:03 PM
I am avoiding all the leaks and whatnot (as usual) , being old fashioned and that (I like telly being a surprise, otherwise I may as well watch soap operas *shudders*).

I'm not quite so excited for Twelve, but will be interested to see where they take him.

Cyberstrike nTo
2014-08-13, 06:41 PM
Well, I suppose it had to happen sooner or later (though Vastra's first episode and the inverted commas at least suggest they're doing something different with it).

Stupid question: Did they ever explained where Vastra, her wife, and that funny alien warrior came from or was their backstories explained in other media (digital shorts, audio adventures, novels, or comics)?

Skyquake87
2014-08-13, 08:20 PM
Yeah, Vastra's backstory was explained away (i think) during 'A Good Man Goes To War' and some other lines of dialogue. Basically, Vastra woke up in Victorian London or something, set herself up as a private investigator and met Jenny along the way. They acquired Strax at Demon's Run after he was apparently killed - an extra on the Season 7 boxset that was available online has an amusing little short where Vastra goes over to Strax and bascially tells him to get up as he's not dead :)

Heinrad
2014-08-13, 10:26 PM
Hey, what episode is this from? Doesn't look familiar to me.



Um...... The only thing I've seen that even compares to that is the first episode of the Super Sentai attempt at doing Spider Man.

Heinrad
2014-08-23, 11:02 PM
So....... Deep Breath......

I liked the way they handled the Doctor's post-regeneration whimmy-whams.

And how Strax survives in Victorian London continues to astound me.

Denyer
2014-08-23, 11:29 PM
Decent effort, assuming it hasn't changed overly much since the leaked copy I listened to a while ago. Can't quite hear him as the Doctor yet (or himself -- The Thick of It is quite strong in memory) but that's not unusual for a new regeneration.

Love that an old-school fan's been cast.

Heinrad
2014-08-24, 12:27 AM
Once his personality finishes being stabilized, we'll have a better idea.

I did like the realization of his accent. And his eyebrows. He's got potential to be a lot of fun.

I also liked the undercurrent of fear. New life cycle, new problems, old companion wondering what the hell just happened.

inflatable dalek
2014-08-24, 01:40 AM
Love that an old-school fan's been cast.

I like the fact the Radio Times have digitally reprinted the tenth anniversarry special just because Capaldi sent them in a letter about it when he was 15...

Generally a good fun episode with a fine performance from Capaldi (it really didn't need the Smith cameo). It did however feel as if Moffat had written a first draft, then looked at it and and gone "Balls, I've done this before haven't I?" and then decided to make it a Girl in the Fireplace sequel so as to excuse the reused ideas.

Prequel.

Equal.

I really wouldn't travel on any 51st century spaceship either way.

The Q&A was mostly good fun, worth it for the Moff taking the piss out of a five year old (though let's face it, it was probably Martha Rose Amelia's dad who was really asking the question), for Capaldi getting a bit tired and emotional and talking with great sadness about the death's of Barry Letts' and... Nick Briggs (I really hope Mr. Briggs hasn't died tonight, that would be awful. I'm guessing he meant to say Nick Courtney and got a bit confused. It did take him two attempts to say Nick Briggs after initially saying Nick Gibbs....), and the prequel talk from Stax was as lovely as ever.

The cinema wasn't as packed as it was for Day of the Doctor (then; full, now; three quarters full), but I suspect the BBC are working out the mean average between the two right now and, assuming they like the sums, we'll have an actual Doctor Who film before Capaldi leaves the role.

Oh, and Zoe Ball had to really struggle to stop Moff and Capaldi having a really in-depth discussion about whether the Mondosian Cybermen should come back (Capaldi wants the proper Tenth Planet version realised with modern effects; the Moff was at best open to just having This Universe's Cybermen in an episode unambiguously).

inflatable dalek
2014-08-24, 01:40 AM
And... we're just going with that being The Rani as a matter of course now, yeah?

Skyquake87
2014-08-24, 08:11 AM
I watched this last night! Girlfriend banished herself from the living room so I could watch the only TV show I really give a sh*t about in peace without her talking all the way through (now that's love folks).

First off: The opening titles, and my didn't they look familiar...cribbed as they were from a fan on YouTube. Not that that's a bad thing, the clocks and cogs is nice, but the TARDIS swooping across looked a bit rubbish.

I can't say I particularly liked the anemic take on the theme tune, which sounded to me equally as whispy and horrible as that version got used during Trail Of A Timelord.

Onto the episode itself...I really enjoyed the scatterbrained approach they took to the after effects of regeneration this time around. There was no mucking about and the quips weren't annoying ("don't look in that mirror, its very cross!") and you could really see this incarnation pulling himself together throughout from scraps of what he used to be whilst figuring himself out. I also liked that there was a very strong undercurrent of this Doctor being quite furious and almost sinister and definitely less 'user firendly', I really really loved the scene where he apparently f**ks off and leaves Clara to sort herself out. Brilliant. What really helps is that Peter Calpadi brings some proper weight to all the strangeness which we haven't had for a long long time.

Clara was just briliant in this episode too. Arguably this is simply because she felt real for a change and got something to do. I hope there's plenty more of this as the show runs on and that she sticks around for all of 12's run as I think she'll make a great foil for him. Hooray for Jenna Coleman!

The Paternoster gang leant able support, and I was pleased to see Strax's silliness inform his character and more about him, in his own way, trying to fit into his 'new' life. I think that's the first time I've picked up on that, if it wasn't there already. Really enjoyed that scene of him and Clara where he's mopping the floor. Vastra and Jenny were great too, but I especially warmed to Jenny this episode. Again, I think its because she was more fleshed out and there was more character to her this time around. The changes to her costume helped too. Caitrin Stewart whom plays her is gorgeous!

The plot itself was decent and I think the familiar elements helped with the introduction of the new Doctor, especially with this new Doctor being a little different to what we've had recently. And horror of horrors, an older man! (Loved all the stuff about the faces and where they come from). The Smith cameo was probably unnecessary, but I enjoyed it and I think it worked better as a farewell from him to Clara than the speech he gave at Christmas which felt to me like something he'd prepared earlier. This felt much more warmer and real than that.



Bloody Daleks next week. Sigh.

inflatable dalek
2014-08-24, 06:11 PM
First off: The opening titles, and my didn't they look familiar...cribbed as they were from a fan on YouTube. Not that that's a bad thing, the clocks and cogs is nice, but the TARDIS swooping across looked a bit rubbish.

Though for those who haven't been following this (and the endlessly entertaining hissy fit thrown by someone else who made their own Capaldi titles who feels they should have been the chosen one) the Beeb did pay and credit the guy for the use of his idea, so it's not a thief in the night thing.

I can't say I particularly liked the anemic take on the theme tune, which sounded to me equally as whispy and horrible as that version got used during Trail Of A Timelord.

As with the last few versions, I think the big problem is Gold has now done, what, five or six takes on the theme tune and probably achieved everything he was aiming for with the first Tennant big orchestra arrangement. Since then he's clearly running out of different ways to do it and it now sounds rather desperate.

The main flaw with this one for me (a lot of people are complaining about the dinosaur stuff being "Padding", when I'd say giving the Doctor a side issue to deal with that lets him show off various sides of his new character was rather the point) is the main droid man never really felt like he was "Alive", so any issues about pulling his plug didn't feel all that dramatic to me.

Otherwise though, good stuff.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-08-25, 01:24 PM
Only just seen it. Enjoyed it. I did struggle to understand the Doctor at times. I'm not sure if that was: A. Intentional post-regen gobbledegook, B. Me not getting the Scottish brogue yet, C. Me just being old and half deaf, or D. The sound just being pants on iPlayer.

Maybe more thoughts later, but the Doctor being insistent on him never going to reach his "Promised Land" did make me think again of Gallifrey. I'm reminded of my idea from the 50th anniversary special that 13th arrives while 1-12 are sealing Gallifrey away not to help his previous selves, but with his own agenda. Gallifrey finale ahoy?

Skyquake87
2014-08-25, 02:12 PM
I don't think that was just you. I found the sound a bit muffly in places too - usually the bits where people turned away from the camera, oddly enough.

Apparently, all the stuff about the Doctor not being the assistant's boyfriend and about him being older has caused great offence amongst some fangirls. As if all that stuff was pointed squarely at them, which I don't think it was. Still, I'm an old bloke, so what would I know, right?

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-08-25, 03:02 PM
Was a bit confused about the Doctor being 2000 years old or so. Thought he was "only" 900 or so. Or is that just Yoda? I forget. Anyway, anyone who knows more Who than me want to speculate on the likelihood of the Rani ( and fill me in on why she is such a big deal)?

Summerhayes
2014-08-25, 06:15 PM
I enjoyed that, though I don't think it quite deserved that whole runtime. Did it make more sense on the big screen?
Overall, I really liked capaldi and felt that he had good chemistry with Coleman. Looking forward to seeing him get into his groove as the Doctor.

One thing that pissed me off way, way more than it should have done was the bbc one sting before the episode had a dalek shooting from its eyestalk. Did nobody who'd ever watched and episode of DW even give that a cursory glance?

Denyer
2014-08-25, 07:19 PM
Was a bit confused about the Doctor being 2000 years old or so. Thought he was "only" 900 or so.
Think the stuff at the end of the last series advances the timeline a lot; i.e. he's in his dotage before he regenerates. Gaps between regenerations are assumed to be much longer than those of renegades like the Doctor and the Master who put themselves in harm's way.

Skyquake87
2014-08-25, 07:40 PM
@Rack N Ruin The Rani is another renegade Timelord from Gallifrey. Unlike The Doctor and The Master, she has specific aims and goals in mind. She is a scientist and a completely amoral one at that, and just sees the Universe as a giant lab for carrying out various experiments on. IIRC, she was exiled from Gallifrey after one of her experiments went awry. She was played by Kate O'Mara (though I believe Big Finish have recently regenerated her for their audios - inflatable dalek will probably know this!) on TV and appeared opposite the Sixth Doctor in 'Mark Of The Rani' and in the Seventh Doctor's debut 'Time And The Rani'. The former was her best outing.

She is only a big deal as - since the show returned - any female villain or agent provocateur is speculated to be The Rani by navel gazing idiots in online forums and national newspapers.

inflatable dalek
2014-08-25, 08:01 PM
Yeah, the final Matt Smith episode was set over a thousand years.


And boy did it feel like it in places.

As for the Rani, for all that Pip and Jane protest she's a completely different character, she is basically The Master with tits. Ludicrous plans, ridiculous disguises, only marginally less camp. The only real difference is she has a specific area of scientific interest whilst the Master was an expert at whatever story they decided to shove him in depended on.

Certainly, it would make more sense for Missey to be the Rani rather than what seems to be the most popular theory, that she is literally the Master with tits. It seems a bit pointless to do that to him when the series already has a recurring evil female Time Lord who'd do the same job just as well.

The Rani seems to be one of those characters that's better remembered than you'd expect, probably helped by being played by a properly famous actress (a surprising amount of non fans I know remember Kate O'Mara was an evil Time Lord even if they don't remember the character's name).

Of course, her being part of all the "Every regeneration ever" montage clips, complete with the single gayest line in the history of the show, has probably helped cement her in the public's consciousness.

She'll probably be an entirely new character after all this.


Or The Man With Chips. With tits.

Heinrad
2014-08-25, 10:55 PM
I don't think it's the Rani. Missy seems far more nuts than the Rani ever did.

Or it could be that the Rani managed to pull off one of her experiments and went completely loopy as a result, which would explain her location and why she seems about as sane as the Master was when he was playing Saxon.

Summerhayes
2014-08-26, 03:35 PM
And there I was thinking that was the TARDIS from the doctors wife, and the robot fellow had just been uploaded or something as an act of mercy by the doctor...

inflatable dalek
2014-08-26, 08:00 PM
I don't think it's the Rani. Missy seems far more nuts than the Rani ever did.

That's the Rani who once made a land mine that turned people into trees? That tried to take over the Universe with a massive disembodied brain? That dressed up as Bonnie Langford?
That once trapped the Doctor in a time loop in Albert Square (it's canon, you know it is)?

Rack'N'Ruin, this will help you realise the true power and evil of the Rani:

NQCeMIQpFBc

Brave Maximus
2014-08-27, 01:45 AM
Hey all...

I don't know if this was discussed earlier... I didn't see it... but I'm blind, so...

But my theory on Missy isn't Rani or a female Master... but instead.... Clara. There were clues through the episode, and while they might be red herrings, I don't think Moffat is that cleaver... I think it's more a "see, I told you from Episode 1"....
That's just me though...

Skyquake87
2014-08-27, 05:36 AM
Ugh...Dimensions in time...I can still remember being embarrassed watching this.

What a terrible load of arse that was :(

I was so excited and then we got that load of tripe. And Noel Edmonds - whom also appears to be pickled in time as he still looks the same on the wretched Deal Or No Deal (or 'open the box' - what I wouldn't give for a Seven style twist to that horrible dragged out pile of cack).

Back on topic...I don't know whom Missy is, but Michelle Gomez is ace - she was one of my favourite things about Green Wing - ha! Perhaps she'll turn out to be her character from that.

I hope she's not Clara or The Rani or River Song and just someone new. Although her having what appears to be prior history that we haven't seen with the Doctor is a bit of an eye roller. Especially as that worked so well with River Song.

I would actually like it if Missy's 'boyfriend' turns out to be someone else entirely.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-08-27, 06:56 AM
Hey all...

I don't know if this was discussed earlier... I didn't see it... but I'm blind, so...

But my theory on Missy isn't Rani or a female Master... but instead.... Clara. There were clues through the episode, and while they might be red herrings, I don't think Moffat is that cleaver... I think it's more a "see, I told you from Episode 1"....
That's just me though...

Can't say I noticed any Clara is Missy clues myself. Can you elaborate please?

Tetsuro
2014-08-27, 12:25 PM
I feel kind of bad for taking this long to realize this.

But when Vastra accuses Clara of having hung out with the Doctor all this time only because he was attractive, she wasn't saying that just to her - she was saying that to the audience as well.

Skyquake87
2014-08-27, 01:41 PM
Hence uproar on less senisble interwebs...I love writing in TV that hits home and makes you think :)

Tetsuro
2014-08-27, 02:42 PM
I actually only realized that once I watched the youtube video "Teens react to Doctor Who", a lot of whom were already fans - and when the topic of Peter Capaldi came up, one of them said something about how he's going to drive away all the "fake whovians", and I kept thinking about what she said - and when I thought about that scene in the episode, it all clicked into place.

But yeah, I guess I've been spared from said uproar.

Morbid curiosity makes me want to see this uproad in question though...

Brave Maximus
2014-08-27, 09:42 PM
Can't say I noticed any Clara is Missy clues myself. Can you elaborate please?

I'd need to go back over the episode for more....

But it's the general "boyfriend" thing. Mentioned too many times in one episode to be a coincidence that at the end of the episode she says it.

Just my 2 cents...

Also, starting to watch it a second time... what's everyone's thought on the new version of the theme? The intro graphics are pretty cool... just not sure about the music...

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-08-27, 09:55 PM
That's the Rani who once made a land mine that turned people into trees? That tried to take over the Universe with a massive disembodied brain? That dressed up as Bonnie Langford?
That once trapped the Doctor in a time loop in Albert Square (it's canon, you know it is)?

Rack'N'Ruin, this will help you realise the true power and evil of the Rani:

NQCeMIQpFBc

Good. Grief.

Though Pertwee taking the pee out of Mr. Blobby's less well liked sidekick is certainly amusing... :lol:

Heinrad
2014-08-27, 10:39 PM
True, she made a land mine that turned people into trees. And she dressed up as Bonnie Langford. And tried to make a giant brain using the minds of great scientists and thinkers throughout history so she could take over the universe, or at least make it a more sensible place.

All right, fine, she's nuts. But she's a far more focused nuts than the Master. She just wants to create things using highly dubious scientific methods. The Master wants complete mastery over all matter, and will use whatever he's thought of that might work to further his aims(listened to Dust Breeding again a few days ago, a perfectly good example of the Master's reach far exceeding his grasp).

The Rani's a different kind of crazy. Far more stable.

Tetsuro
2014-08-28, 12:01 PM
Someone once made an interesting observation regarding the Doctor-Master-Rani combination; while the Doctor is motivated by his own good morals, and the Master represent immorality, Rani represents amorality; the complete disregard for ethics or morality, good or wrong; the only thing she's motivated by is her scientific research and she doesn't care whether it results in millions being saved or destroyed as long as it's completed.

With that in mind, I'm sure the Rani would make for an interesting character in the right hands.

Unfortunately, those hands belong to Pip and Jane Baker.

Sades
2014-08-29, 06:19 AM
I have no idea who Missy is, and I don't care. I will no doubt find out at some point, given who I live with.

I liked it. I like Peter Capaldi better than that caveman dude. I wish I could talk dinosaur.

Poor dino.

inflatable dalek
2014-08-29, 03:03 PM
given who I live with.

Steven Moffat?!

Heinrad
2014-08-30, 08:04 PM
Into the Twili.....er, Dalek:

Must.... Fight..... Song.... Urges.....

Golden Earring flashbacks aside, this wasn't bad. We do get a bit more mundane as we see what Clara's doing(although after that flashback last week I would think education would be the last place she'd want to be) while not traveling with the Doctor. The Doctor's reaction to soldiers is something we've seen before.

All in all, enjoyable if not memorable.

Sades
2014-08-31, 07:10 AM
I thought it kinda sucked.

Why didn't they just "un-fix" the thing? All of that messing around in it's "brain" was unnecessary imo. And Clara just happened to figure out what she needed to do and strike at just the right things to trigger the needed images, and The Doctor just happened to know/guess which alien stuff to slice up and stick together...

One big, solid "Meh" from me. :/

Skyquake87
2014-08-31, 09:24 AM
I think I'd probably go with Heinrad on the enjoyable, but not especially memorable front.

Started off nicely, I don't know why, but I love it when Doctor Who does show off space battle stuff just because it can these days. It just seems so nice for the show to have a budget that matches its imagination.

We're seriously into diminshing returns with the Daleks at the moment though. Just make them fearsome b*st*rds and have done with it. All this stuff about trying to change them and make them grow as individuals isn't why they're interesting or enjoyable. This whole episode was basically expanding on stuff we'd seen before in 'Dalek', although at least here Rusty didn't blow itself up for having feelings.

Some decent actors wasted in minor roles here, including fella from Game Of Thrones and Tyres from Spaced (as he shall forever be known to me). Didn't particularly warm to bossy soldier girl (was she the lady whom was in The Bill / Bugs...? Or if not...was it her daughter...? She looked very familar). Enjoyed Danny, although he suffers the curse of the novelty name which I can't stand. Danny Pink. Really?

Clara again carried the weight of this episode whilst The Doctor seemed oddly cold and distant throughout. Whilst I'd agree with you Sades that some of leaps in patching the Dalek's memories through were convenient, I am not surprised that the Doctor had a clue about their Physiology - he was there for their birth on Skaro after all...

I really didn't like the 'Am I a good man?' scene. It felt like soemthing really good someone had thought of that they wanted to include, but didn't know where to put it. It felt so random and out of place. It really felt like something that should have come after The Doctor's done something terrible to save everyone, rather than 10 minutes into the episode before anything's happened.

Next week's episode looks fun. I hope it will be.

I'll be hoping we don't see The Daleks again for a good long while (Paradigm now offically retired as a poor marketing choice to sell toys, are they?) as they need a rest and for someone else to like Rob Shearman to come along and do something interesting and/ or decent with them. Just a straight up 'Resurrection Of The Daleks' shooty thing would do. Lets stop deconstructing them with Asylums and touchy feely ones and just get on with telling some good stories with them in!

Hound
2014-08-31, 03:27 PM
Steven Moffat?!
I ****ing wish...!

Sades
2014-09-01, 03:03 AM
To clarify, He's apparently picturing him and I still being married, with Moffat living with us like some sort of goofy sitcom roommate or something. I thought he wanted me to go live with Moffat, probably over the toenail clipper incident (which he totally started) :p

Whilst I'd agree with you Sades that some of leaps in patching the Dalek's memories through were convenient, I am not surprised that the Doctor had a clue about their Physiology - he was there for their birth on Skaro after all...

I know nothing about this, but even with that... to me, that doesn't mean he's going to know how to slice up their brains. :/

Skyquake87
2014-09-01, 07:40 AM
True, but I'd imagine he's had plenty of time to study them over the years...

inflatable dalek
2014-09-01, 07:57 AM
That was about twenty minutes longer than it would have been if they hadn't locked it up with its gun still attached (at least in the Eccles episode the humans didn't know what any of the attachments did).

Yeah, all very been there and done that before (it's no less than the third "Nice" Dalek story across the various media in less than two years), and 45 minutes just isntenough the do both the psychological Fantastic Voyage and the balls to the wall Dalek battles and do both justice.

It felt very cheap in places as well, with the obvious office corridors doubling for the space station and the Dalek invasion force being all six props (actually using some of the Telletubby Daleks to pad out the numbers might have helped. How odd it will be if The Fiveish Doctors is their last appearance).

Despite that, it was harmless enough and had nice lines here and there and Nick Briggs was on fine throaty form. But it's one where people are going to get very mixed up over thinking parts of it were from other episodes.

I'm also worried about them letting Furman name characters.

Skyquake87
2014-09-01, 10:33 AM
That cheap feeling is something I've noticed with Who since we got a HD telly. When watching on a slightly older set, you still got that de-laced filmy grain on the new stuff even when it shifted to HD. Watching in HD, not only is it very unforgiving, but it also makes everything look like its filmed on videotape - that flat sort of lifeless sheen, easiest comparison I can make is like in the old days where film was used outside and tape indoors, before OB was used for tape and film phased out. I've noticed this watching a lot of films recently too. Everything just looks a bit chocolate box, and whilst HD works really well for 100% CGI stuff (TF: Prime and Beast Wars/ Machines look incredible in HD) , you can kind of see the joins in everything else and I am not sure how 'awesome' it is to be able to see details in the background like, I dunno, shop signs and that. Maybe if I had a telly that covered an entire wall like folk down the road this would be a thing.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-09-01, 12:10 PM
I wanted to like the latest episode, I really did. But that was a bit pants, really. How many shots did we get of generic human troops fighhting a rearguard action from corridor to room to corridor to room... etc etc? Dull dull dullity dull. And what was the point of the Pete Townshend lookalike? Did nowt. Not even die. Pointless. The bits inside the Dalek looked rather naff too.

However, good bits:

+ "Swallow this!"
+ The Doctor's reaction to the pool of dead things.
+ "...bolt hole..." Ha! The Doctor likes puns. My kinda guy! :)
+ Lily the Pink shedding a tear. Actually like the guy so far, stupid name notwithstanding. Could be interesting when he ends up in the TARDIS and the Doctor finds out he is ex-military.

Anyone reckon we'll see the lead female soldier (Blue) turn up again? Maybe the Doctor will have a change of heart on soldiers? I mean, after his actions in the Time War (and on numerous other occasions) it does come off as rather hypocritical. He's hardly Mother Teresa himself, is he?

Hoping for better next week.

Denyer
2014-09-01, 09:19 PM
Best bit about this one was the obviously low-budget old school bits of Blue Peter craft supplies used for the Dalek's bio circuitry at the end. Generally decent effort.

Have you seen the leaked scripts? I think we've had the best two out of those five, TBH. Next week's lays the meta on thick, there's one in which Moffat goes overboard in referencing canon (wouldn't be out of place in a book anthology) and there's a generic sci-fi entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_(series_8)

No obvious spoilers from the leaks have crept in there... wonder if with 6 they're being blatant and going back to the 50th special already? "Mummy on the Orient Express" sounds interesting, though.

Summerhayes
2014-09-02, 12:22 PM
Anyone reckon we'll see the lead female soldier (Blue) turn up again? Maybe the Doctor will have a change of heart on soldiers? I mean, after his actions in the Time War (and on numerous other occasions) it does come off as rather hypocritical. He's hardly Mother Teresa himself, is he?

I sort of took the implication to be that it's not the shooting and that he hates, it's the following orders. There was a bit in one of the Ecclestone ones where someone says "I was just doing my job" and the doctor replied that with that sentence, they lost the right to talk.

angloconvoy
2014-09-03, 12:18 PM
I feel kind of bad for taking this long to realize this.

But when Vastra accuses Clara of having hung out with the Doctor all this time only because he was attractive, she wasn't saying that just to her - she was saying that to the audience as well.

Really? Because I found it the most heavy handed, beating-you-over-the-head-with-a-mallet excuse for a metaphor I've ever seen outside of the first season of Angel. The constant cracks about his lines and eyebrows and wrinkles and how he's Scottish (complete with a godawful joke about the upcoming independence vote). I spent most of the episode thinking, "Yes, we get it. The Doctor is an old bloke whose face probably wouldn't shift as many issues of Heat now." It was like the whole episode was a passive agressive excuse/defense for their choice of actor and nothing more. I'm not sure how he'll pan out as the Doctor all round, but that first episode was shockingly bad.

inflatable dalek
2014-09-05, 12:54 PM
Whilst I can see why him going on about his age- though it seems to be confined to the first one- is annoying many people, I think it's worth remembering that he's not just the oldest (discounting John Hurt for a second...) new series Doctor, he's the oldest actor ever to début as the Doctor (continuing to discount John Hurt for a second. Possibly Cushing as well?). It's easy to see why there'd be a worry about how well this would go over and why the PTB thought it should be addressed head on, especially as Hartnell was only a year younger in '63 and the job basically killed him.

Denyer
2014-09-05, 07:53 PM
Am assuming that these days the Beeb have some sort of health checks for actors cast in physically demanding roles...

Skyquake87
2014-09-05, 09:29 PM
...probably the way health and safety in the workplace and fear of litigation has evolved over the years.

inflatable dalek
2014-09-05, 10:07 PM
Am assuming that these days the Beeb have some sort of health checks for actors cast in physically demanding roles...

Christ, they have that where I work! Patrick Troughton is going to come replace me any second....

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-09-06, 07:43 PM
Robots of Sherwood

Hmmm, not feeling this one. The robot knights (I used to enjoy that game on cassette!) were OK, but are we really recycling the "aliens seeking the "Promised Land" crash, disguise their ship as a building and try to repair it" thing already? Ho hum. Ben Miller was good though. Thor less so. No Missy either, unless I missed her. And was that Pertwee-esque Space-fu I saw?

At least next week's one looks creepy rather than just crappy.

Heinrad
2014-09-07, 12:27 AM
I came in a little late on this one(found a really neat looking Sharper Image stereo at the indoor flea market. Unfortunately the brain in it was fried, and trying to get the thing working made me lose track of time. On the up side, they gave me a full refund), and I came in as the Doctor was fighting Robin Hood. Again, it wasn't bad, and the bit with who the guard picked as the leader of the band of rebels was priceless.

But it still felt.... I dunno..... A bit "Eh, not memorable". Just another historical story. And while this is the second time we've had this general concept in the last three weeks, they did make the odd change.

And was it just me, or did the sheriff bear an uncanny resemblance to Anthony Ainley?

Sades
2014-09-07, 06:11 AM
I found this episode thoroughly entertaining.

Recycling: I thought of it as more establishing a pattern than recycling, personally. But who knows?

In regards to age/actor's health: In addition, Hound was mumbling something about Hartnell doing more episodes in a season than Capaldi when reading this thread.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-09-07, 08:50 AM
I'm guessing that Missy is gathering people who kill/sacrifice themselves for the Doctor. I'm kind of expecting one or both of Clara and Mr. Pink to end up in "The Promised Land" before this arc is through...

Skyquake87
2014-09-07, 01:10 PM
I also found this episode very entertaining and the best of Capaldi's run so far. The alien spaceship plot is rapidly becoming C21 Who's "its really the Master in a clever disguise all along" - there may be some deliberate seeding of this narrative as the underlying thread is things making the way to the 'Promised Land'...but why is it of so much interest to Mechanical and possibly artificial life forms? Do they have Faith?

Enjoyed that this was a cheerful romp through the legend of Robin Hood -although the little John gag did put me in mind of Maid Marian And Her Merry Men.

Wasn't anything I really disliked in this one. Good stuff!

As for next week's episode...Steven Moffat really likes his nursery rhymes, doesn't he?

Heinrad
2014-09-07, 01:14 PM
My bet's on Jimmy..... Er, Danny.

The only reason I can think of for all the age references is that it's the show's way of dealing with the "couple" factor. The usual assumption the guest characters make is that the Doctor and Companion are a couple, which both vehemently deny. Now it's more the other characters reacting to the fact that in this couple, one is lots older than another.

inflatable dalek
2014-09-07, 05:24 PM
I assumed the Maid Marian Little John gag was a deliberate homage.

Considering the episode was about twenty minutes in before the robots were revealed and it was portrayed as a surprise I thought the title gave a bit to much away, but it was still a a huge amount of very silly fun with Ben Miller giving a few actors we've had in the show over the last few years a lesson in how to overact with style.

The whole thing was just an excuse to have that Patrick Troughton Robin Hood picture at the end wasn't it?

And if they're naming episodes after TV shows that did better in the ratings than the Colin Baker era I'm looking forward to The A-ndroid Team next week.

Summerhayes
2014-09-09, 11:09 AM
I really, really enjoyed this one. Hoping to see much more like it. I love fun doctor who and I love scary doctor who, I just don't like overwrought, emotional a-level theatre studies doctor who.

Tetsuro
2014-09-10, 09:29 AM
Considering the episode was about twenty minutes in before the robots were revealed and it was portrayed as a surprise I thought the title gave a bit to much away, but it was still a a huge amount of very silly fun with Ben Miller giving a few actors we've had in the show over the last few years a lesson in how to overact with style.
I thought the title was obvious, so the twist must've been who turns out to be robots. The Doctor lays it in a little thick trying to convince the audience it must be Robin Hood and his merry men, too.

inflatable dalek
2014-09-10, 08:09 PM
But the Knight soldiers were in the trailer as well, no surprise there at all.

It turns out the actual meaning of the title was made clear in the bit they cut out at the last second, the fight should have culminated in the sheriff having his head cut off, laughing about it and then reattaching it before moving up to the level above the vat. He was the robot of Sherwood all along!

Though the cut was made so as to be sensitive to current news, being dropped in a tub of molten gold is probably a far nastier death for (at best in the final version) a cyborg than a robot...

Speaking of deletions, the rough edit of the Dalek episode apparently ended with him becoming a suicide bomber Dalek, blowing up the mothership.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-09-13, 08:23 PM
Listen

Oooh, I enjoyed that. It felt waaaaay longer than most episodes, but in a good way. Creepy, slow and talky. And more Hurt! Who'd have thought?

The only downside for me is just how incredibly vital to the Doctor's life Clara seems to be in comparison to every other companion he has had. It seems a tad OTT.

Skyquake87
2014-09-13, 08:46 PM
I also enjoyed it. Really nice use of Time Travel and in less of a timey-wimey way too, with the subtle cause and effect thingy-me-do in there. And an explanation for the barn in Day Of The Doctor. Aww.

In terms of Clara, well I actually don't mind seeing the companion step up and do the things. It very much reminds me of the early days of the show when the Doctor was a slightly more distant and unknowable figure.

It does run the risk of side-lining Capaldi somewhat though, and whilst I understand that he can't do the same sort of physical stuff as his immediate predecessors, the writers really have got to think of something better than 'get the companion to do all the stuffs'. Really enjoyed Danny again. Shame about the ridiculous name. Still.

Heinrad
2014-09-14, 04:12 AM
I really liked this one! This one flowed really well, and the story was great. Good story, and one that should be memorable.

Tetsuro
2014-09-15, 12:15 PM
The preview for Listen made me think if it was gonna be another episode like the one with Matt Smith and the kid who was being menaced by giant puppets, but fortunately that turned out not to be the case.

The opening of the episode felt a bit silly (creatures evolved for perfect hiding? I immediately thought of pretty much any animal with active camouflage) but I thought the rest of the episode was pretty solid, and I liked the approach of not showing the monster, apart from that one blurry shot where you couldn't really make it out anyway. Probably because the concept was something I'd thought about a lot - if I was all alone in the universe, I'd still lock the door too.

Summerhayes
2014-09-15, 01:54 PM
Listen was absolutely amazing. Really creepy, really different... I hope the whole thing is never touched on again, as the idea that there might not have been a monster at all is incredible.

Inevitably, though, they'll return and lose all their mystery.

Tetsuro
2014-09-15, 04:43 PM
Listen was absolutely amazing. Really creepy, really different... I hope the whole thing is never touched on again, as the idea that there might not have been a monster at all is incredible.

Inevitably, though, they'll return and lose all their mystery.
Well, I think the monster in Listen was kinda like the one in Midnight, in the sense that it was never seen - and we've never seen it still, so...

Summerhayes
2014-09-15, 05:26 PM
I'd forgotten about that episode. The monster could possess people in that, right? Could explain the message being in the Doctor's handwriting.

inflatable dalek
2014-09-15, 07:41 PM
Liked the Blair Witch style "Was there really a monster at all?" vibe, everything that happened in the episode had a potential rational mundane explanation (or at least as rational as "My friend from the future came back in time and grabbed me by the leg from under the bed" ever gets) and could the Doctor could just haver been straight up long.

Yes, the Moff is being very Terry Nation in shoving all his standards into the episode, but it still flowed well, the dating stuff was fun and the Young Doctor bit was surprisingly well done.

I'm baffled by how many people think the barn was on Gallifrey though, it clearly wasn't in Day of the Doctor (no billion billion Daleks in the sky and it would have been really stupid with all of time and space to go run off to and use the weapon in that the Doctor would basically go to the cosmic doorstep of the folks he's running from), and the Doctor being in a boys home of some sort of an alien planet adds to the mystery of his past rather than subtracting from it.

Skyquake87
2014-09-15, 09:24 PM
I didn't really think about where the barn was. Never even thought about it, because, y'know...its a barn.

Heinrad
2014-09-16, 01:09 AM
It may not have even been a boys home. Hiding in the barn could have come shortly after they made the Young Doctor look into the Vortex/Matrix/whatever it was that infected the Master. Presumably they'd have done this with all the Time Tots. Heck, becoming a Time Tot may well be the first step, kind of like first grade. And from what we already know of Time Lord society, the kids may get shipped off to school and only come home on holidays(the Birthday of Rassillon, the First Regeneration of Rassillon, that time Rassillon tied Omega's shoelaces together, etc).

Hound
2014-09-19, 08:24 PM
I'm digging this season so far. The second episode with the Dalek was a bit meh but so far the others have been enjoyable.

I saw the first episode in the theatre thanks to a friend taking me on my birthday. It was fun. It was a bit in your face with all of the 'I'm not a young guy for you to fall in love with' stuff but it didn't bother me because, to me, it felt like a big **** you to anyone who'd been bitching about the Doctor not being young and attractive anymore and I feel like those people need that.

The Robin Hood episode was just fun and lighthearted and you need that, I tend to like those best.

This last one was genuinely creepy. Moffat is just really good at that kind of thing. I liked it a lot.

Sades
2014-09-20, 05:26 AM
a friend taking me on my birthday

Hurhurhurhur.


This ep was alright. What I saw of it, anyway- the beginning kinda bored me a bit so I wasn't paying attention. I started watching about midway through.

inflatable dalek
2014-09-20, 09:02 AM
Hurhurhurhur.

He's playing coy so we don't know he's off the market and won't stop flirting with him.

Skyquake87
2014-09-21, 06:39 AM
Nice bank heist episode last night, Doctor Who style. Good to see a bit more of the Doctor doing Doctory things this week. And my goodness, Jenna Coleman looked gorgeous in this episode. Enjoyed the supporting characters Psi and shape changey lady, they were good.

I liked Keeley Hawes strange 1950s space glam look she had going on. That was cool.

And the creature was great too :)

"Soup!"

Denyer
2014-09-21, 10:11 AM
Worked better on screen than on paper, was pleasantly surprised.

How far will the next episode get with the winding down of Clara, do we think?

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-09-22, 08:00 PM
The bank heist episode was fun. A pleasant change to have guest "companions" who weren't idiots, were useful, and didn't actually die. Can't quite get my head around the loop they made when the Doctor gave the bank owner his number, only being in the position to do so because he had already given her his number, but that is time travel sci fi for you. I just went with it. Liked the eyebrows being mentioned again. They're going to be his bow tie or his fez, aren't they?

No Missy again. Weird that she was in the first two but not since. Anyone got any theories?

inflatable dalek
2014-09-22, 08:05 PM
Great fun, if frothy stuff. And who doesn't love multiple Alex Drake's?

I don't know why people were excited by the appearance of Abslom Daak (Dalek Killer) though, it's the criminal mastermind Sensorite I want to know more about.

Heinrad
2014-09-24, 12:56 AM
Finally got to see this one, and it was a fun romp. No real standout moments - but it was a good, solid story, well worth many rewatches.

Skyquake87
2014-09-24, 06:14 AM
I don't know why people were excited by the appearance of Abslom Daak (Dalek Killer) though, it's the criminal mastermind Sensorite I want to know more about.

Absolm Daak?! Where was he? Must have missed that... and the Sensorite...

Heinrad
2014-09-27, 11:13 PM
The Caretaker.....

...... is taking care of Coal Hill Secondary School.

Ever since the First Doctor enrolled Susan there, Coal Hill keeps popping up. Although the uniforms are a new thing. Susan was wearing civvies in '63, while the Twelvth Doctor's favorite student is wearing a uniform that wouldn't have been out of place in my primary school.

But then, I went to a Catholic run school.

Again, the team gives us a really fun episode. I know I enjoyed it.

And the Doctor's right. Never make a sign when you're angry.

Skyquake87
2014-09-28, 07:36 AM
Its been a while since I saw 'An Unearthly Child'. Susan's about 16, is she not? which would put her possibly into the Sixth Form bracket (the school leaving age in England is 16 which -when I was at school was the Fifth Form or High/ Upper School/ Year 11). In England some Sixth Forms (ages 16 - 18) do not require you to wear a uniform (mine did) - so that might be a way out of that one.

Alternatively, it might just be because even in the 1960s uniforms weren't compulsory despite the large adoption of these since the reign of Henry VIII (whom introduced them to teach humility) and the Butler Act of the 1950s introducing a code to encourage schools to take up uniforms.

The uniform seemed fairly standard, but the crest was enormous, which makes it look a bit ... Primary School. Or latter day Grange Hill when they switched to that 'trendy' purple and yellow effort that seemed more corporate logo than secondary modern.

As for the episode, I enjoyed it, although it did feel a bit 'Sarah Jane Advenutres' in places. HD is also a bit unforgiving on robot costumes that are clearly made out of foam, making them look a bit, well, rubbery. Quite liked the visual gag with the teacher whom looked like Eleven though.

inflatable dalek
2014-09-30, 07:12 PM
Coal Hill had regular uniforms in Remembrance of the Daleks (not to mention Day of the Doctor as well).

Absolm Daak?! Where was he? Must have missed that... and the Sensorite...


His photograph was one of the Super Criminals the cyborg downloaded so as to distract the teller. Full pics of the cameos here: http://tardismusings.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/time-heist-cameos.html

Amazingly, Absolm Daak: Dalek Killer looks exactly like a drawing.

This week's was good solid Gareth Roberts fun, even if it was basically a reworking of The Lodger. Danny came over very well, rightly calling out the Doctor on being a dick so that bodes well for the future.

It was also nice to see Coal Hill still has a Mr. Bronsan lookalike as headmaster.

Tetsuro
2014-09-30, 09:29 PM
Well to be honest, if they had used an actual actor for Absolm Daak, do you think anyone would've recognized him?

Sades
2014-10-01, 04:23 AM
I was entertained. Well done, TV. NEEEEXT!

Skyquake87
2014-10-05, 09:16 PM
So 'Kill The Moon' then.

A familiar trope with the Earth in jeopardy from a giant space alien (see also 'The Beast Below' for a recent example), but this one ramps up the usual morality stakes by making this what appeared to be a thinly veiled abortion debate. It might not have been, but it felt like it, what with the creature being pretty much unborn. An uncomfortable subject to deal with at the best of times, even when given sci-fi trappings, and especially so with The Doctor (the only male character left by the halfway point) deciding to leave the women to sort it out, with some spurious 'destiny' waffle.

The resolution felt like a bit of a cop out... it would have been nice for them to be some ambiguity about what decision was made by dumping the 'message to Earth' and just cutting to itchy fingers and then Clara losing it with the Doctor (which was a fantastic scene).

An interesting episode, but not quite as thought provoking as it could have been and let down with the need to give us a happy ending (sort of). Hmm.

Denyer
2014-10-05, 09:53 PM
Love the preview for next week.

Kill the Moon... Danny's by far the least crap companion's partner in the modern series, isn't he? Does the "moon is an alien egg" thing fit with other televised stories, UNIT dating aside?

Felt more like a "needs of the many" angle for the most part, although wasn't paying too much attention to the tablet.

Sades
2014-10-06, 05:16 AM
I'm not fond of Clara. She was very annoying this episode... I think I'd have killed the thing, better safe than sorry...

Felt very slow and altogether too convenient IMO. Danny's okay, so far.

Tetsuro
2014-10-06, 07:12 AM
I thought the whole premise was rather daft. The ending did feel like a copout, but I think Clara did kind of raise a valid point. Probably did not express it in the best way, but...

And I hadn't even considered the abortion analogy until Skyquake87 brought it up. :o I'm pretty sure it was unintentional, but I bet some people are gonna have a field day with it.

Heinrad
2014-10-07, 12:28 AM
Just as I was about to type something pithy, my cat threw up in my slippers.

Again, not a bad episode. Concept's pretty iffy, though. And you'd think the humans wouldn't build a weather control station for the Second Doctor, Ben, Polly, and Jamie to blunder into on what's basically a giant egg.

Tetsuro
2014-10-07, 11:46 AM
The entire human race actually agreeing on anything is slightly more believable if you consider that the episode establish that the entire earth is suffering a long-term crisis because of the moon's changes affecting the entire world, so under the circumstances I'm willing to buy the idea that everyone would agree on a suggestion that would likely put a stop to it.

But on the other hand, it's even easier to believe it's simply unscrupulous politicians shutting off the entire power grid and robbing the people out of their choice. In fact, the motivations and importance of choice is part of why I think Clara decided to interfere in opposition of the entire human race; I don't think she necessarily did it because she thought it was the right thing to do, but because of her trust in the Doctor - or rather, his trust in her. At least, the trust she perceives he has in her. And that she thought he expected her to do that.

If you want to stretch the abortion analogy, I don't think it's so much abortion itself as it is the male attitude on the subject; it's not very supportive to shout "It's your choice!" while running away.

Sades
2014-10-07, 05:50 PM
If you want to stretch the abortion analogy, I don't think it's so much abortion itself as it is the male attitude on the subject; it's not very supportive to shout "It's your choice!" while running away.

I'm a little sleep-deprived (construction starting at 8 AM? ys pls), so I'm gonna blame that for the fact that I LOLed at this. :up:

I totally didn't get an abortion analogy from this ep... I'd watch it again if we hadn't erased it. :/ It seems kind of like a stretch to me. I can see how it fits in, but it seems kinda... "clumsy", I suppose. There're probably better ways that it could have been done, right?

Then again, it's not like this is high art or anything. Ehhh.


But on the other hand, it's even easier to believe it's simply unscrupulous politicians shutting off the entire power grid and robbing the people out of their choice. In fact, the motivations and importance of choice is part of why I think Clara decided to interfere in opposition of the entire human race; I don't think she necessarily did it because she thought it was the right thing to do, but because of her trust in the Doctor - or rather, his trust in her. At least, the trust she perceives he has in her. And that she thought he expected her to do that.

Her doing so felt a little forced. I think that's why it annoyed me so much. It didn't seem rational and didn't seem worth it IMO to base the entire show around this "choice".

inflatable dalek
2014-10-07, 08:06 PM
Generally a solid, scary episode but let down by annoying science even by Who standards (trying going to the moon in a space shuttle) and the lack of tension over what was the right choice- This is Doctor Who, of course doing the nice thing will be the correct decision.

Good performances all round though and rather nicely it felt as if both Clara and the Doctor were right.

Tetsuro
2014-10-08, 03:04 PM
Her doing so felt a little forced. I think that's why it annoyed me so much. It didn't seem rational and didn't seem worth it IMO to base the entire show around this "choice".
I didn't say it was a good explanation. I agree with you, even with my explanation it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The dodgy science didn't really help either.

Hell, more than once during the episode, I was feeling like this is the moment where I finally drop the pretense that Doctor Who is scifi and not fantasy.

inflatable dalek
2014-10-08, 04:52 PM
The Runaway Bride had already established the Earth was formed around a giant spider monster, I'm not sure what's so much harder to swallow about the moon being similar.

If Courtney is the female president (as implied) that means Clara should really be just as much pissed off with her as she could have just told the mission what was going to happen beforehand...

Tetsuro
2014-10-08, 05:05 PM
The Runaway Bride had already established the Earth was formed around a giant spider monster, I'm not sure what's so much harder to swallow about the moon being similar.
Truth to be told, my memories of actually watching most of nu-Who, especially the episodes that came out before I started actually following the series, are really hazy - especially the later Tennant ones. I guess I just tend to gloss over the more ridicilous aspects if I am to still try to enjoy the future episodes.

Heinrad
2014-10-11, 11:31 PM
Are you my Mummy on the Orient Express?


I liked it. It flowed well, the monster looked very well done, and it felt really well done.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-10-12, 06:12 PM
A very enjoyable episode, imo. Much better than The Caretaker, and on a par with Kill the Moon. The mummy was very nicely designed and animated - top work BBC people! Clara has now lied (again) to Danny. Bad things a-comin' there. And I couldn't tell if Frank Skinner was actually meant to secretly be the evil genius behind it all, or if he is just an iffy actor. Fun though. And I do like how morally ambiguous and duplicitous the Doctor is. More like this please, Auntie... :)

Skyquake87
2014-10-12, 06:53 PM
Agreed. I am enjoying this Doctor being a bit more slippery and - in this case - pragmatic (and I also half suspect he did leave some folk to suffocate...!). And Frank Skinner did stick out a bit, didn't he... although I did like his line explaining away some plot contrivances "Or maybe I've already been studying this already" :)

Spotted Foxes as well, doing singing, unsurprisingly.

Sades
2014-10-13, 05:03 AM
Just watched, liked it.

Liked Clara's hair a lot. /girl

... That's all I've got to say, don't know why I bothered with a post. :p

Oh! Yes. Here's an AMA ("Ask Me Anything") on Reddit about this week's Who (and possibly next week's, I don't know I haven't read it yet) by the guy who did the writing. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2iyngn/i_wrote_tonights_doctor_who_and_next_weeks_ama/

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-10-13, 08:16 AM
I liked Clara's hair a lot too. /boy

inflatable dalek
2014-10-17, 06:47 PM
I liked her bum in those silk pajamas.

A very nice episode and I actually thought Frank Skinner was very good (though why did Gus need him or the captain? Or indeed any of the support staff when they could all have been holograms?), he knows his Who and understood how to play it rather than going all John Simm.

Heinrad
2014-10-18, 01:45 AM
She did look quite nice in those pajamas.......

Skyquake87
2014-10-19, 08:24 AM
Flatline!

How good was that? I like Doctor Who when it just takes a simple idea and makes it into something horrible. A really great little episode and surprisingly tense. Some great visuals here too - with the cop being sucked into the rug and the flat people and the Doctor walking the TARDIS to safety :) I think this might be my favourite Capaldi episode yet. Clara was awesome...and, bizarrely, seemed to sell the idea of female Doctor not being quite such a terrible thing...

inflatable dalek
2014-10-19, 08:36 AM
I've not watched this week's yet and won't till I'm back from London in the middle.of the week but I thought I'd share the tidbit I learnt at LF&CC:

The Abslom Daak piece used in Time Heist was by Lee Sullivan (I'd just assumed it was from one of his original appearances but it is in fact a McCoy strip). Who was pretty damn giddy about getting his work on TV Who but at the same time wished the beeb had asked him first as he'd have done them a colour version. Which indeed he has now done and is selling as a print.

Heinrad
2014-10-19, 06:25 PM
Flatline was indeed a lot of fun. I quite enjoyed it.

I'm beginning to think Clara's heading for something bad, though.

Denyer
2014-10-22, 08:22 PM
Capaldi works better when he gets the chance to do anger, doesn't he?

Tetsuro
2014-10-23, 12:33 AM
I like Doctor Who when it just takes a simple idea and makes it into something horrible.
Agreed, it was a surprisingly solid episode, with a premise straight out of...an episode of Cosmos?

Anyway, easily Capaldi's best so far for me as well. Then again, any episode that actually manages to come up with a better resolution than I can is a good one - granted, aliens who come from a two-dimensional universe being fooled by a drawing does raise some questions, but nothing that really distracts from the experience.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-10-27, 01:52 PM
The One With The Trees

Trees. Good, aren't they?

Anyway, online scuttlebutt seems to be that Danny Pink may actually be, and has been for the duration of this series, dead.

Could he be a Missy plant to get Clara under her influence, or to keep an eye on her?

Or is Clara dead as well?

Anyway, next weeks "start of the finale" looks, well, random and underwhelming. We all know the Doctor will end up fine as ever (unless the BBC press dept. have been trumpetting a new actor for months), and I honestly think no-one (including Coleman & Capaldi) will miss Clara all the much if she does, as expected, depart.

Oh, and let's see what people thjink... Is Clara:

A) The Rani
B) The Doctor's granddaughter Susan all growed up and Time Lord-y
C) Neither of the above

Heinrad
2014-10-27, 09:14 PM
Yes, trees are quite good.

Where in the world did the online scuttlebutt come up with that?

As for Clara, I'm guessing B or C. B fits her personality far more than A. That being said, Moffatt could knock the whole thing on the head and have her be the Master.

Skyquake87
2014-10-27, 09:47 PM
I've not read the spoilers because spoilers are no fun. So cannot comment on guesswork etc, Clara acting all sinister in the trailer for next week is ... interesting. But I hope she's not The Rani , The Master or Russell Grant.

Anyway! Trees! Hooray for Trees...as the mighty Pulp once sang:

"The Trees/ Those stupid trees/ Produce the air that I am breathing"

I quite enjoyed this romp through the forest. Less so the child lead and the unnecessary maudlin 'lost sister' to give us a reason why she can 'hear' the trees.

Did like the Doctor's comment about humanity ruining the planet through "too many wars and too many babies".

Cyberstrike nTo
2014-10-28, 12:36 AM
Last night I watched The Name of the Doctor, The Day of the Doctor, The Time of the Doctor, and Deep Breath on AIV and DVD (for Deep Breath) back-to-back-to-back-to-back for the first time and it was a lot of fun. I liked how Moffat made little things important how he pays them off as well (With the Doctor asking Handles to remind to reconnect the phone to console and then having Clara hanging up the phone at the end of Time of the Doctor and the whole thing is paid off with Matt Smith's cameo at the end of Deep Breath) and I like the Vastra/Jenny/Strax trio more in Deep Breath than in their previous apperances I get a "spin-off try out" every time they show up though. All them are well paced and don't drag. His episodes have some great one-liners and memorable exchanges. He also handles past continuity better than anyone other than Russell T. Davies and does a great job of making these 4 stories of the Doctor feel like an epic.


I don't like about them: Moffat can't write the Daleks. He makes them IMHO weak. While Davies did overuse them, he also did make them come off as credible threats. Moffat seems to makes the Daleks seem like the biggest push overs in the universe. I get the whole "Doctor has adventures in between the episodes" concept, but he also throws characters into the series like Vastra, Jenny, Strax, and Handles for example, and gives a few lines to explain where they come from and how they know the Doctor and sometimes these lines are said so fast you can easily miss them (like how the Doctor got Handles, this was the third time I watched Time of the Doctor and I read the subtitles to understand what Matt Smith said). My least favorite thing about Name of the Doctor and from Moffat in general was River Song I didn't care for her overly convoluted backstory and adventures from the previous seasons and episodes. The less said about her the better.

Sades
2014-10-31, 05:20 AM
Where in the world did the online scuttlebutt come up with that?


This. What the flying F?

I'll be honest, I don't know if this show is going to get that... "clever" (Not completely sure that's the word I'm looking for, but it'll do).

I like trees, they are our friends... Our fast growing, disappearing when no longer needed, convenient friends... amazingly I was able to accept disappearing trees for the sake of story. :p Danny is still okay, though I'm getting tired of this army stuff being pushed like it's all he's got asides from sitting around waiting for Clara to show up. Clara is still meh. IMO.

Not sure if the channel I watched the ep on didn't air the lead-in to the next ep, I wasn't paying attention or if I've just forgotten it completely but whatever way it happened I'm in the dark as to what's airing this Saturday. Ah well. :p

inflatable dalek
2014-10-31, 05:18 PM
Caught up! Two very good episodes that were a lot of fun (though the Doctor claiming the Tardis has never shrunk before is clear fan bait). No real idea what is going on with Clara and I'd probably be quite bored of her if she wasn't so pretty for I am shallow.

This week... If that poster of Capaldi waving about a Invasion style Cyberman helmet is actually genuinely reflective of the contents of the episodes then them redoing St Paul's will be entirely justified in my eyes.

Ohhhhhh.... If Missy has all these dead people in "Heaven" with her, I wonder if that'd include dead Cybermen as well?

Brendocon 2.0
2014-11-01, 09:32 PM
That would have been so much better if the Cybermen hadn't been in the sodding trailer/promo images.

I have no idea what the plan was. Digitising consciousnesses as they die - yep, fine. So they can reprogram them and download them back into Cybermen bodies? Why? Where are they getting the bodies from? Are they graverobbing as well? Why bother reinstalling the stripped-down personality at all? How did they get the one who died in Deep Breath? Has this been going on for 100 years or is there some form of temporal field in play? TOO MANY QUESTIONS MOFFAT. Erk.

Superb twistage with Missy. And definitely in the top two people to inhabit the role post-relaunch.

Did expect the Rani though. Boo.

Sades
2014-11-02, 07:12 AM
I have no idea what the plan was. Digitising consciousnesses as they die - yep, fine. So they can reprogram them and download them back into Cybermen bodies? Why? Where are they getting the bodies from? Are they graverobbing as well? Why bother reinstalling the stripped-down personality at all? How did they get the one who died in Deep Breath? Has this been going on for 100 years or is there some form of temporal field in play?

This, wtf.

But I have even more questions as I barely know who the Master is. Which pretty much brings me to a summation of:

"Well, Cybermen. Alright."

So is Danny dead, dead? That's what I'd like to know. I hate two-parters.

Skyquake87
2014-11-02, 09:15 AM
Well that was tense! Or i found it was...

I found the Cybermen/ Missy's plan a bit sketchy also...but i thought about this and wondered if the Cybermen somehow need the human soul to function - i.e. they need the creative and imaginative bits of the human pysche, just without all the moral quandries and emotional wibbles. This would help with the race constantly 'upgrading' as seen in that slightly crap Smith Cybermen jolly.

As our souls are linked to our bodies, I suspect the stuff about them having a 'new' body in the nethersphere is nonsense - as that would explain the 'don't cremate me!' thing.

The nethersphere looks to be some sort of processing station for the Cybermen's A.I. to work out any skillsets. I would guess anyone with nothing useful to offer would end up like Dr Chang.

The recently deceased are then just reformatted as a Cyberman.

Of course, this all rather grimly suggests that we're in some sort of semi-conscious coma when we die which doesn't really bear think about one way or the other - burning to death or slowly decomposing. Lovely.

Was also secretly hoping that Missy was also The Rani as this sort of science project is more her bag than The Master's, but there you go. The Master is one for doomed alliances...

Tetsuro
2014-11-02, 12:31 PM
As our souls are linked to our bodies, I suspect the stuff about them having a 'new' body in the nethersphere is nonsense - as that would explain the 'don't cremate me!' thing.
Well that's kind of what I figured too - the "body" in the nethersphere is just like the body in Matrix, a reflection of how you remember yourself and not a "real" body.

What's particularly kooky about the whole thing is the suggested link between the corpse and the soul, that cremation somehow puts an unpleasant end to the latter - as if merely rotting away was somehow better. Not to mention Danny was feeling "cold" because his body was in a cold storage. Why was this link even necessary? And if you can still feel temperature changes in your remains, wouldn't you feel it being tinkered with too? And all of this ignoring stuff like braindeath, etc.

I mean, if they'd just went straight to uploading the "souls" of the recently deceased into the nethersphere and not suggested any sort of link between the soul and the body after death at all, it would've probably left them with a bit fewer plotholes to deal with.

tahukanuva
2014-11-03, 12:53 AM
I dunno. After the reveal, I just assumed the whole "soul still feels the body" thing was part of the deception. Everything else was fake, so I don't see a real reason to keep assuming that was true.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-11-03, 12:29 PM
So... they're testing fan reaction to a female Doctor Who in the near-ish future, maybe?

I'd be up for it, myself. Why not? Would add a different spin to it.

On topic:
The Cybermen / Nethersphere plot seems nonsensical to me.
The skellingtons were admirably creepy for Saturday night "kids" TV.
I believe Danny is now dead. Properly. A goner. Fallen off his perch. An ex-Danny.
I also think Clara will probably sacrifice herself next week to do something vital to the plot and her soul/consciousness will be uploaded to the Nethersphere to either "live" with Danny forevermore or (more likely) to work with the former Mr.Pink to destroy it from within, thus releasing the incarcerated "souls" to find peace.
Chris Addison is brilliant. Please let him be in it loads next week.
Steve Jobs joke - Wow, really? Made me laugh, sure, but really???

Sades
2014-11-03, 08:35 PM
I dunno. After the reveal, I just assumed the whole "soul still feels the body" thing was part of the deception. Everything else was fake, so I don't see a real reason to keep assuming that was true.

Why bother, though? That's what bothers me.

I'm assuming it's included as a way to bring Danny back in some way. I don't think he's "dead" dead.

Steve Jobs joke - Wow, really? Made me laugh, sure, but really???

I'm not seeing why not...

inflatable dalek
2014-11-03, 08:55 PM
From how I read it, everyone who dies (over what seems to be a decent stretch of space and time) has their soul sucked off into the Matrix thingey, but The Master(? will they really go for The Mistress permanently now?) can only get hold of a limited number of bodies. So Seb is going through the process of sorting out who can actually be downloaded into a Cyberman, possibly with the rest just being kept in there afterwards for their collected knowledge?

Or because the Master just gets off on all the misery caused by people feeling every indignity their corpse is put through.

As for the episode itself, the audience knowing from the off it was Cybermen thanks to the trailers generally worked in creating a real sense of unease and tension, but the "Look- St Paul's!" part really fell a bit flat thanks to seeing it advance. Though I suppose the main bad thing is the trailers having clips from next week's episode in them.

Really hard to be sure how well this is going to work until we get the pay off, but if nothing else the new Master actor can do the insane camp thing better than Simm.

Brendocon 2.0
2014-11-03, 09:02 PM
Of course it's entirely possible that they're just being fed the sensation of being cold and told that they'll feel it when they're cremated just in order to convince them to go ahead and agree to the procedure.

Depending on how well the second half pulls off its explanations, this has the possibility to make about as much sense as Logopolis ever did.

Tetsuro
2014-11-04, 09:10 AM
Of course it's entirely possible that they're just being fed the sensation of being cold and told that they'll feel it when they're cremated just in order to convince them to go ahead and agree to the procedure.
That's kind of what I figured too. Removing people's emotions has been a messy process in the past, but if you get them to give them up willingly...what implications does that have?

And more importantly, will it even be addressed in the next episode?

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-11-04, 09:41 AM
I'm not seeing why not...

Well, I guess I was surprised that they chose to make a joke about a (relatively) recently deceased real person, who presumably still has family and friends around who may be hurt by suggestions (even in fiction) that their loved one's soul was tormented by their chosen funeral method and who is now being kept in some version of Cyber-hell.

Dunno. Maybe Steve Jobs was a huge Whovian and would've loved a shout out, so his family would be cool with it. Who knows?

inflatable dalek
2014-11-04, 10:04 AM
Maybe the Moff is a Samsung man?

inflatable dalek
2014-11-04, 10:15 AM
Annnnnnnnnd one thought that just occured to me:

The next episode will have three characters that are- to all intents and purposes- female versions of male characters from the Pertwee era (as well as Missey we get Kate Lethbridge Stewart and Osgood back).

this means we might finally have the Master/Brigadier cat fight we've all been waiting for.

Brendocon 2.0
2014-11-05, 03:54 PM
Okay, the BBC have come out and said that the "three words" thing is a scam.

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2014/11/bbc-responds-to-death-cremation-complaints-041114230915.html

AndrewDTurnbull
2014-11-05, 06:16 PM
There were a couple of interesting ideas in the episode, and getting willing donors to become Cybermen is a nice idea, echoing the original Mondasian Cybermen who became that way through choice.

My biggest gripe is that why would the Cybermen use human skeletons? They replace and upgrade their components. That was a cheat used so we could get a nifty hook and effect but makes no sense when you look at the Cybermen as they are supposed to be.

I liked Missy,my reading was that there was no real attraction, she was simply doing her best to unsettle the Doctor and it worked.

Thought it was a bit off that The Doctor didn't recognise Missy as a fellow Time Lord, although we may get an explanation next episode, so I reserve my criticism of it for now.

Andy

Skyquake87
2014-11-05, 07:09 PM
Okay, the BBC have come out and said that the "three words" thing is a scam.

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2014/11/bbc-responds-to-death-cremation-complaints-041114230915.html

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised people have complained about the uncomfortable thoughts, themes and ideas in this episode. I wonder if anyone complained about 'Kill The Moon'? Probably not.

Still, at least this shows that Doctor Who is still thought provoking telly.

It would seem the people whom have complained hadn't noticed The Doctor's reaction then...

inflatable dalek
2014-11-05, 08:41 PM
Whilst I can see any young kids who've recently been to the cremation of a beloved relative would wind up fairly traumatised, considering it's going out after 8 in the evening is it really a program for small children at this point?

Skyquake87
2014-11-06, 08:56 AM
Has it ever been? The assumption is often that its a children's program - whenever anyone complains about it or has something bad to say about it, or just plain doesn't like it. It's a family show - that means it occupies the same playing field as soap operas, drama like Our Zoo etc or entertainment shows like Strictly, X-Factor or whatever Ant and Dec are up to this week. Doesn't help that the BBC often responds to complaints about the show by referring to it as a children's program...sigh.

One of the things about family drama is that - if done well - it will promote discussion about some issues people will find uncomfortable and difficult to deal with. Sadly these days, unless this is stated upfront before a program airs, then you're just asking for trouble.

More widely, this is just another symptom of a change in society where people look to institutions and companies to carry them through life, so they don't have to deal with anything that might be problematic or difficult.

Heinrad
2014-11-09, 12:16 AM
Dark Water/Death in Heaven:

Well. What a finale.

I liked Missy, though a cold, calculating Master is something I miss. That being said, I liked the Master's plan. And finally discovering what they've been hinting at in Danny's past. Not quite what I was expecting, but close.

And having watched the extra, the pseudo-cameo Moffatt put in worked.

Skyquake87
2014-11-09, 06:45 AM
Yup, good finale from Moffatt, probably his best since 'The Big Bang'. Just a good straight forward romp with a good plan from The Mistress (for once!) that wasn't over egged or too staggeringly huge not be undone in a very silly way (like all that business with the Toclafane). I was as bit sorry to see Osgood go, as Ingrid Oliver brought such charm to the character in the short screen time the character's had. But then her Zygon double is presumably still out there...or even her human self, who can tell?

The stuff with Danny was great and a nice pay off for the stuff that's been bubbling along with him, and I really liked the prosthetics which really did make it look like he was a corpse brought back to life. brr.

I also enjoyed Chris Addison going "squeeeee!"

Other things ; loved the cheeky flash of Clara's eyes in the opening titles after her bluffing to be the Doctor and she got a great leaving scene with The Doctor. I did like that they both lied to each other, and the scene with them hugging was ace.

Capaldi's best bit for me was when he went looking for Gallifrey. Just a small, wordless scene, brilliantly played.

OOh! And I did like the resolution to 'the woman in the shop' business. Much better than say, explaining away that it was The Silence what blew up the TARDIS honest ,guv for REASONS in some breathless dialogue.

All in all, its been a solid run for Capaldi's first series, with only the rubbish Dalek episode really dragging things down. Even 'Kill The Moon' which I didn't particularly enjoy so much had some good things going for it. The best episode for me though has been the Boneless one, that was proper ace and the stand out episode of the run.

Didn't even notice that this series was 'only' 12 episodes long, either! Hooray!

Sades
2014-11-09, 07:16 AM
Liked it, was good, sad for Danny but nice way to go, not convinced Missy's gone.

Cyberzombies.

That about sums it up for me.

tahukanuva
2014-11-09, 09:05 AM
Yeah, everyone Missy shot flashed red and left a pile of ash, but Missy flashed blue and did not.

Anyway, overall swell, if somber, finale. We're getting some solid emotional moments with Clara and some great acting from Coleman as we approach the end. But overall I'm not going to be upset when Clara's gone, possibly because she's already quit the Tardis about eight times by now.

Heinrad
2014-11-09, 05:47 PM
The Master(or Missy) will probably be back at some point. Moffatt's idea, from what he was saying in the behind the scenes stuff, was inspired from all of the Master stories from the JNT era, when it would end with the Master in a situation that there was no way he could survive, and when he'd show up a few stories later, his entire explanation was, " I escaped!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I couldn't type it the way he said it, but you get the idea.

inflatable dalek
2014-11-09, 09:08 PM
Mostly a solid final, with the Brigadier moment and the final scene between the Doctor and Clara both being highlights, I welled up a bit.

Though both those scenes seem to have pissed off a lot of people so maybe I'm easily pleased.

The main weaknesses:

The Cybermen were rubbish and Missy could basically have been turning the corpses into anything. For all the Doctor talks about their potential thread, all they do when they wake is is mope about in the graveyard and if both Danny and the Brigadier can overcome their conditioning there's probably millions more that will as well.

UNIT were even more rubbish. Despite having a secure secret base under the Tower of London they decide to put the President onto a plane even though the skies are full of flying Cybermen and EVIL clouds.

Then they have Osgood working in the same room they've got the Mistress locked up in.

Then, despite knowing who the Mistress is, and therefore presumably knows she's a master manipulator and super hypnotist with a history of escaping from UNIT, she still goes over to her. Stupid idiot. And what were those two guards doing? Having a nap? Who runs security for them these days? Trailbreaker?

It's terrible that the Brig, who is a dead zombie Cyberman, is by far and away the only one of them who is in any way competent.

Brendocon 2.0
2014-11-09, 10:02 PM
The Master(or Missy) will probably be back at some point. Moffatt's idea, from what he was saying in the behind the scenes stuff, was inspired from all of the Master stories from the JNT era, when it would end with the Master in a situation that there was no way he could survive, and when he'd show up a few stories later, his entire explanation was, " I escaped!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I couldn't type it the way he said it, but you get the idea.

I've been saying it for years. Nobody needs to explain why/how the Master is back. It's what he does.

Yeah, so anyway. Why did Missy set Clara up with the Doctor?

Also: Nick Frost. Already putting in a better performance that Simon Pegg did when it was his turn.

Sades
2014-11-09, 10:45 PM
Then, despite knowing who the Mistress is, and therefore presumably knows she's a master manipulator and super hypnotist with a history of escaping from UNIT, she still goes over to her. Stupid idiot. And what were those two guards doing? Having a nap? Who runs security for them these days? Trailbreaker?


This! I forgot about that. Hound and I both were like "You're ****ing kidding me." You deserve to be ash, dumbass. And the guards. FFS.

Heinrad
2014-11-10, 03:56 AM
Well, UNIT squaddies have changed to a more Trailbreakerish color palette, so who knows? :D

As for mopey Cybermen, it seemed to be a mix of Missy didn't get everybody who'd died(not all the graves were producing Cybermen), the only ones with completed programming were the ones who went into the atmosphere and blew up, and given how recently both Danny and the Brig died and what they'd both seen, they may have been the only ones in any shape, mentally, to do anything.

And enough time has passed for the Brig, who knows how much of him was actually left? Which puts the UNIT squaddies in an even worse light, really.

Tetsuro
2014-11-12, 04:57 AM
Yeah, everyone Missy shot flashed red and left a pile of ash, but Missy flashed blue and did not.
Also I could've sworn she vanished before the blast hit her, so it only looked like she got vapourized if you weren't paying too much attention. Not to mention the bit about the Master still having a TARDIS somewhere...

As for mopey Cybermen, it seemed to be a mix of Missy didn't get everybody who'd died(not all the graves were producing Cybermen), the only ones with completed programming were the ones who went into the atmosphere and blew up, and given how recently both Danny and the Brig died and what they'd both seen, they may have been the only ones in any shape, mentally, to do anything.
I felt it was pretty strongly implied that the people in the "afterlife" (forget the technical term for the hard drive), faced with powerful emotional grief, would simply willingly assign away their feelings, such as was almost the case with Danny, which is why he ended up mopey; the ones who completed the procedure became subservient, while those like him who didn't, well...

But yeah, the whole scene where Missy escapes from the cargo bay was just stupid. Not just Osgood acting like a moron, but what the hell were the guards for, set dressing?

Denyer
2014-11-15, 08:02 PM
Just watched the last three back-to-back. So many things that could've worked really well, a few that did, and a whole mess of fanfic given a budget.

The wannabe matrix is just ignored? The Brig's running around as a Cyberman? The Doctor doesn't so much as look in on Clara's timeline? He actually smashes up the TARDIS console?

And at the point I'm thinking "f*ck this shit, but it could make for a clean slate and better next series" there's the whole Santa thing.

inflatable dalek
2014-11-15, 09:04 PM
Clara was in the Children in Need preview of the special so she's not done yet...

Thought the Doctor's private rage/grief at the Mistress yanking his chain one last time was very well done myself. As with 10's "I don't want to go" I do like seeing the Doctor without the brave front he'd have put on if there had been a companion there.

Tetsuro
2014-11-18, 05:20 AM
He actually smashes up the TARDIS console?
That whole scene was a plot hook so blatant it was downright offensive.

Denyer
2015-01-11, 03:20 AM
Christmas special wasn't that bad.

http://www.cultbox.co.uk/features/guides/doctor-who-news-summary-everything-we-know-so-far-about-series-9

Apparently filming's just started, so would expect titbits of info to start emerging any time now.

Skyquake87
2015-01-11, 10:35 AM
No, I quite liked it, although the supporting cast didn't get a right lot to do. It was nicely done and Nick Frost as Santa was ace. I forgot to post about this!

I am glad to see Clara again, I have to say. She still feels like she has a lot of mileage in her - that's likely because we still don't really know her. She still feels like a bit of a mystery. No doubt to the poor characterisation and writing she's had, unfortunately.

Skyquake87
2015-07-11, 09:11 PM
Whoop! sexy trailer action

https://youtu.be/bB8fh4QUy-A




So, what do we reckon, is Maisie Williams going to be playing Susan?


...thats the least exciting question I've ever asked.

Or...The Rani. Because ever female guest star has to be The Rani. Its the law of Who speculation.

Denyer
2015-07-11, 10:48 PM
That all looks decent enough... hopefully will be more consistent than the last series.

It could be Jenny, River, etc.

Skyquake87
2015-08-07, 04:36 PM
Some entertaining reportage in Private Eye this week

"Not long now till the return of Doctor Who...Fans should make as much as they can of this 12 part run, as [Moffat's commitments to Sherlock means] there will be no full series in 2016.

This series also had to do without the close supervision of Faith Penhale [whom] stepped in personally to take over exec producer duties ... two years ago [after the] "erasing" of Caroline Skinner who had [a] love/hate relationship with Moffat.

Penhale's [time on] the show is fondly remembered for the occasion when, signing off marketing material for the programme, she pointed to a poster and asked "what are those flying things?"

"Daleks", she was told."

Tetsuro
2015-08-07, 04:39 PM
With the inconsistency of new episodes in the past couple of years, do you figure nu-Who is beginning to run out of wind?

Or perhaps a new show runner is in order?

Skyquake87
2015-08-07, 04:48 PM
I think a bit of a rest might be in order as in 2009, yes. It does feel a bit more like the time is right for a rest than it did in 2009.

I'm quite happy to see where Moffat takes Twelve, but I do think he should move on soon - running two of the Beeb's flagship shows has been a bit more than he can handle and its been Who that's suffered more than Sherlock, sadly (I put that down to 'new toy' syndrome).

Plus, with the Tories intent on dismantling the BBC, the corporation might not be in much of a position to fund new series anyway.

Skyquake87
2015-09-13, 03:08 PM
New Series Prologue, featuring that lady what is one of the Sisters Of Karn

https://youtu.be/8-fFyrxbSes

inflatable dalek
2015-09-19, 10:21 PM
I'm on holiday, so more thoughts will follow in the week (a lot will depend on the resolution anyway), but the Special Weapons Dalek can speak! How awesome is that?

Skyquake87
2015-09-20, 08:46 AM
A bit all around the houses to basically do 'Genesis' again, and I'm not exactly sure what Davros wants...other than to show what the Doctor has wrought and kill him (probably) before he himself pegs it. Moffat's budget -blowing all around time-and-space-this-episode-the-Docotor-definitely-dies is fast becoming parody, which is a great shame and really unnecessary. It's a bit like the start of series six where you don't ever believe for a minute that the Doctor will end up dead which rather spoils the drama. Hopefully, unlike 'The Impossible Astronaut/ Day Of The Moon', the second part won't turn into a confusing mess with some narrative jumps that make no sense.

I did like the 'hand minds' though, that was brilliant and that The Doctor left his will to the Master, presuambly because he knows she'll always find a way to avoid being properly dead. Also the Doctor playing guitar on a tank is one of the most metal things ever! I hope Judas Priest or Iron Maiden have done something equally preposterous.

UNIT were a bit pointless, although it was nice to see the lady from Bugs/The Bill amongst them. UNIT really need a good modern Who story. We're always get shown that they're important, but thus far, not really seen why.

In other things I liked, Capaldi seemed much better in the role, although larking still doesn't suit him so much (despite me enjoying the tanky bit) and Jenna Coleman was good as always - Clara falling just the right side of feeling she's important, but not being a total egotist.

Ryan F
2015-09-20, 10:36 AM
Conversely, the sub-Bill and Ted tank/guitar antics ("DUDE!") were, for me, the weakest part of the episode. The doctor thinks he's going to die, so decides to piss about in ye olde Essex? That just didn't really work for me. At all.

Most of the rest of it was fairly entertaining, I thought - but as with a lot of these two-parters it's hard to judge without seeing how it ends. There were a lot of strong visuals (the handmines, the snake colony guy, the invisible planet), and a decent amount of characterisation (the whole Doctor-saving-Davros thing), and Michelle Gomez is an absolute hoot.

Optimistic for part 2, but I remember saying the same thing about the first part of the Dark Water story and look what happened there.

Brendocon 2.0
2015-09-20, 07:34 PM
That

a) didn't need to be 45 minutes long
b) probably would have stretched over three episodes in the 70s

Reasonable start.

Denyer
2015-09-20, 08:00 PM
I hope Gomez outlasts Capaldi. This was a decent showing and the rest of the series sounds promising --

http://tv.bt.com/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-series-nine-steven-moffats-non-spoiler-episode-guide-is-a-must-for-every-fan-11364005266202

Forty five minutes feels clipped, though. The footage undoubtedly exists to let scenes breathe into an hour.

Skyquake87
2015-09-21, 07:43 PM
Article in the Metro today showed the overnight viewing figures for Who at 4.5 million. That's the lowest viewing figure a series opener has had since the show returned. Obviously doesn't take into account iPlayer, repeats on BBC, Catch up etc, but still, that's a big 3 million drop from the last few series. Were that many people watching the rugby...?

Rewatched the episode again and spent half the time wondering if that was Reece Shearsmith in the background at UNIT. I liked the drama with Davros more on the second viewing, but I'm not sure what Davros is up to on Skaro. Or what the Daleks are doing. They go to all that effort to pull the TARDIS through time to...blow it up?

inflatable dalek
2015-09-21, 08:03 PM
Has it been up against X Factor with a regular episode before? I'd presume a big "Time shift" switch (Who tends to have large ones anyway), but I'd suspect the Daleks aren't enough of a draw anymore and the promtion didn't really offer anything else. Not making any mention of Davros was laudible, but considering that was revealed by the end of the precredits and it's effectively a sequel to the new series most successful story ever, at least bigging up the adult version being back might hsve been sensible.

Skyquake87
2015-09-21, 08:09 PM
Ah, that might be why. I don't think it has, actually (I should know this, as I love the Ratings columns in DWM). I think there's been periods where its overlapped, but not gone head to head. Maybe the Beeb's schedulers were hoping for the show to hold its own as it did in '05 against Ant and Dec.

inflatable dalek
2015-09-21, 08:24 PM
I think the overnight (which is low by McCoy standards when overnights were all they used and ratings tended to be higher) is at least a slight worry, and considering the Moff is now only second to JNT in terms of length of service as a show runner I'd say thinking it's time for a new head voice is fair enough.

Skyquake87
2015-09-21, 08:36 PM
Or indeed a bit of a rest, as Private Eye thinks there will be.

inflatable dalek
2015-09-21, 09:06 PM
You do see fans going "How can Moff have the BBC over a barral with Who! ", which ignores the fact that he actually has them over a barral with Sherlock. That's an insanely successful show (the recent mad relaunch of Who in Japan was promoted as "From the creator of Sherlock!"), and if he says "I'll only do it if I can do Who at the same time. And with less episodes for Who so I can cope", then that's what he gets.

Cyberstrike nTo
2015-09-21, 10:16 PM
Given that Cumberbatch and Freeman are busy doing a lot of movies I think Sherlock season 4 should be the last.

I do think Dr. Who needs a new showrunner, Moffat has written some good episodes but his over-arching plots leave a lot to be desired. I think that the Daleks need a holiday for a season or two (besides Moffat can't write the Daleks for shit anyway). Say what you will about Davies overuse of them he made them great villains. Moffat writes them as metal idiots.

Sades
2015-09-22, 12:42 AM
Yay Missy, enjoyed. NEEEEXT.

Summerhayes
2015-09-22, 01:33 PM
I enjoyed this episode a lot, and the Daleks (for me anyway) work best in stories that aren't really about the Daleks at this point. And Missy is brilliant, she can carry right on.

inflatable dalek
2015-09-25, 01:15 PM
Someone at Gallifrey Base posted the chart ratings for the week of City of Death Part 4, apparently there were two ways of compiling ratings in those days and it's now been decided the one not usually referred to was actually the more reliable of the two, meaning City of Death now has a peak of 19 million viewers.

But it was still out-rated by a Star Trek repeat. Which probably puts rating worries into some sort of perspective (top watched program of the week, To The Manor Born, was seen by close to half the then population. Blimey).

Expect worst rating woes this week as Who is up against a big Rugby match apparently. Perhaps because of this the beeb have created a last second movie version of the two parter that's going out on Sunday.

Also, my first package from the Doctor Who Complete History partwork has arrived. That's a chunky series of books, so a tenner seems a fair price. The fact Andrew Pixley had a good decade to hone his Archive writing skills means the text hits the right balance as well, detailed and very much just the facts but presented in a nice easy to read way that stops it becoming monotonous. Surprised they kicked off with a Tennant rather than Capaldi though, especially a book with some fairly unremarkable episodes in it (bar Gridlock).

https://twitter.com/InflatableDalek/status/647057447488749568

Skyquake87
2015-09-25, 06:42 PM
I'm still recovering from the DVD files (and still have a bunch left to watch), so haven't even considered 'The Complete History', plus don't have room and am happy enough with the few behind the scenes books I do have (still really like 'Regeneration' about the McGann TV Movie).

Brendocon 2.0
2015-09-25, 07:01 PM
And the longstanding mystery of "who the **** actually buys partworks" is finally resolved.

inflatable dalek
2015-09-25, 08:17 PM
You can't blame me for any others!

Skyquake87
2015-09-26, 10:25 AM
And the longstanding mystery of "who the **** actually buys partworks" is finally resolved.

I don't make a habit of it - I had Discovery as a child (I like history. and seeing how little we've changed..!), and Tree Of Knowledge in my teens (came in really handy as well!). The DW DVD files I took a punt on to see it'd be popular enough to run onto the Classic stuff (it was) which meant I got a reasonably priced heft of the series and a decent encyclopedia thing to go with them.

Haven't bothered much with any of the other things that have popped up recently (the Marvel stuff, DC collection and the Judge Dredd one).

inflatable dalek
2015-09-26, 08:00 PM
The Second Part of the Story Where The Title For Each Episode Seems To Not Really Have Anything To Do With The Plot.

















BOO to last week's cliffhanger not only having an obvious resolution but actually being a random clip from the end of the following episode. Was someone worried the "Death" of Clara wouldn't be dramatic enough?

Otherwise, generally good solid, if not spectacular, stuff where everything that happened was pretty much what you'd guess was going to happen. It was mainly held up by the performances.

But Christ Clara is an idiot.

Denyer
2015-09-26, 09:03 PM
Picked up issue #2 with the Pertwee stories, and it feels very perfunctory by now after a few years of dipping into other Who books. The layouts make for poor use of space.

This week's show, on the other hand, was really rather good. Hopefully this is the series that Capaldi gets to hit his stride.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-09-26, 09:19 PM
Was starting to think Clara would be stuck wired into the Dalek shell forever more, ultimately being rejected as being too "un-Dalek" by the other Daleks, and being sent off to a Dalek asylum (ready to meet 11). But no.

Was acually a bit let down by this one for some reason. Good performances by Capaldi, Gomez, and the guy playing Davros (well, until he went all cackly and EVILLLLLL again). I do not like Sonic Ray-Bans. Nor am I keen on how the TARDIS "hid". The decomposing Daleks in the sewers didn't seem right, either. I think that maybe I just don't like Dalek stories. So dull. I did like the pointy stick though.

Do we think Clara is the daughter of the Doctor and Missy, and the mother of Susan? I think not, but it'll keep the speculation flowing.

On an unrelated note, I hope we return to Orson this series. I want to know what was up with that.

Skyquake87
2015-09-27, 08:18 AM
Orson? Welles? The planet shaped like a man? Orson the Pig from Orson's farm? Orson, Mork's boss..?


...can't think of any more Orsons. So that's your lot.

Before watching this, I saw a short interview with Mr Moffat where he said that these two episodes were based on that line of dialogue from four in 'Genesis'. Not sure this warranted another two hours of telly as like Rack N Ruin, I found this a bit underwhelming.

The stuff with Missy and Clara was fun, yet as Dalek said, Clara really did come over as a bit of an idiot in this - I can understand having to put some element of trust in Missy when you're trapped on -pause for deep intake of breath and hammy tones - a hostile alien planet, but surely you'd realise there's probably not going to be anything good coming out of wiring yourself up to a Dalek. Nice morbid shout out to Oswin, though.

Elsewhere, Davros and The Doctor was a nice tense bit of character work (with some nice hints about Davros), undone by constantly waiting for the very obvious turn of events come thundering in, and lo, it did, with the whole 'sunrise' thing. Not sure about Davros using his real eyes ... if he has real eyes, why's he kept them shut all this time and had a special third eye installed (make your own jokes here)?

I dunno, like Genesis, this all fell down for me because you know The Doctor wont destroy Davros/ The Daleks. It became another Dalek story on a massive hiding to nothing. Surely someone out there must be able to do something interesting with these cackling pepperpots? Its all very comic book, or at worse Inspector Gadget "I'll get you next time Gadget! Next time!". No you wont. Or like killing Optimus Prime.

The "Mercy" thing was a funny one. It was a word in the Dalek's vocabulary, one having squalked that out as recently as in 'The Big Bang' to River Song. The Doctor wasn't within earshot at the time though and this would otherwise have been a nice little ret-con. So I'm not sure if I liked that or not.

Overall, enjoyable, but lacking any real balls to do anything with the perpetual Dalek/ Doctor rivallry and ultimately just ends up maintaining the status quo. Be interesting to see if there's any pay-off on the Hybrid business though.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-09-27, 04:15 PM
Aaaaaaand another grumble. How on Earth (or indeed Skaro) did Clara fit inside that Dalek? Putting to one side the fact that it was seconds earlier full of angry dead Dalek goo, Missy removes the very small organic Dalek from within the shell, and the next thing we see is Clara sitting comfortably in a hollowed out Dalek shell. You're not telling me the Daleks build in that much space and a human sized chair for their small, squishy inner selves. And no, I don't care if Roy Castle managed it. Utter tosh. It all just serves to remind you of the SFX people sitting in the props wheeling them about. :down:

Brendocon 2.0
2015-09-27, 04:37 PM
Sonic sunglasses. Just ****ing shoot me now.

The Second Part of the Story Where The Title For Each Episode Seems To Not Really Have Anything To Do With The Plot.

Title made plenty of thematic sense to me.

BOO to last week's cliffhanger not only having an obvious resolution but actually being a random clip from the end of the following episode.

Or rather the beginning of the last scene from the story's conclusion, so not really random. Skip forward to present the bookend out of context to mislead expectations. Standard narrative trick.

Heinrad
2015-09-27, 06:42 PM
I'm not in love with the sonic sunglasses, but since they seem intent on overhauling the sonic's looks every few years..... Eh. It's still a bad idea.

I liked Missy's explanation about how she and Clara survived(but now I want to know all about the vampire monkeys), but it does kill the mystery about how the Master keeps surviving certain death a bit.

Actually, the only bit about the Dalek sewers that I didn't like was the fact that I would think at this point, the old Daleks would be more soupy slime with lumps than aggressive mouldy slime.

A fun start to the season, overall.

And they're bringing back Danger Mouse! WOOHOO!!!

Skyquake87
2015-09-27, 07:14 PM
..and with Dave Lamb doing some voiceover work for it too (he's the guy does the awesome commentary on Come Dine With Me)

inflatable dalek
2015-09-27, 07:55 PM
Or rather the beginning of the last scene from the story's conclusion, so not really random. Skip forward to present the bookend out of context to mislead expectations. Standard narrative trick.

And as with most of the times The X-Files did something similar with a lot of its two parters (and in the worst example, just a one-off epiosde where they clearly just didn't have enough to fill the time) it's a "Standard narrative trick" that's used in a rather lazy and unconvincing way to try and drum up some false tension. It's a contextless flash-forward that doesn't connect well to the previous scene or the one that opens part 2 which would flow much better coming after the seeming extermination (did anyone watch the film version? Did they leave the cliffhanger as was or just cut it entirely?).

It's worrying they thought the idea the Doctor might kill Davros (and thus permanently removing the show's lead villains) was more likely to create an exciting cliffhanger than the seeming death of a character who had just been announced as leaving the series.

Plus, for it to even slightly work, the Doctor has to decide to shout "EXTERMINATE" in as scary a way as possible for no reason when he's actually trying to help the young boy. Unless he's taking a small bit of revenge from trying to make young Davros shit himself it's a pretty weak moment.

There was actually a fair bit of padding in here, notably the Doctor stealing Davros' chair adds nothing to the entire show and is blatantly the result of someone realising the Doctor himself didn't really do very much in this one. Missy's over long story at the start was another fine example.

Hound
2015-09-28, 04:30 AM
I quite enjoyed this opening 2-parter, certainly more than almost everything from the last season.

Sades
2015-09-28, 05:10 AM
I like the glasses! Partially because I'm a dick and I knew it was gonna piss people off. What I didn't like was the teacup thing. Don't question it? That was weak, c'moooooon.

I wasn't able to watch the entire thing because we don't have DVR here and the first showing is on when the baby is up, so I spent half the damn program getting up for toddler whims every three minutes/having a toddler in my lap grabbing me by the cheeks going "Mummy, Mummy, Mummy, Mummy...", but I thought what I saw was good times.

"Haha, twist! Oh no... THIS IS A TWIST" is kinda meh. It feels like the show is trying too hard to be clever to me. I enjoyed it, yeah but... ehhhhh.

I was hoping Clara was going to be stuck as a Dalek/shot.

inflatable dalek
2015-09-28, 06:00 AM
I quite enjoyed this opening 2-parter, certainly more than almost everything from the last season.

Yeah, the niggles were really niggling, but it was still fairly solid popcorn.

I didn't mind the glasses as I assumed they were just a one off gag.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-09-28, 06:38 AM
Overall, I'd describe the last two episodes as "frustrating". So many good things (chiefly the acting and anything Missy) but so many moments that just take you right out of the moment, ruining the overall effect. Suspension of disbelief is key for this sort of thing, and there were too many bits that failed to maintain that, imo.

Summerhayes
2015-09-28, 10:18 AM
Well, I liked all of it. It even kept me interested in Daleks, but I still think they need some time off if they're ever going to be threatening again. Does anyone remember what one Dalek managed back in 2005?

inflatable dalek
2015-10-02, 02:11 PM
We're getting a new BBC3 Doctor Who spinoff! About...erm... Coal Hill School.

I'm assuming Class is actually going to be the Clara Show and they've just not announced her presence in it yet so as not to drain any tension from how the character might leave the show. If not... it's a bit of a random choice.

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-02, 02:17 PM
I heard about Class on the radio this morning and thought "yeah okay whatever."

Then I got online this morning and saw people on The Internet discussing an upcoming Who "announcement" and thought "oh I wonder what that's about."

And then I realised that it was the thing I'd already heard about, died a little bit inside and felt sorry for anybody who'd gotten themselves excited in advance of that.

inflatable dalek
2015-10-02, 02:21 PM
Luckily I only caught a bit of the twitter build up, thankfully or I'd have been really deflated and down on the whole thing as well.

The problem is the two previous TV spinoffs were based first and foremost around successful and popular character's from the parent show. From what we've been told so far, the new one is based around a building that's had likely had less screetime in Who than Captain Jack had managed by The parting of the Ways.

Skyquake87
2015-10-02, 04:32 PM
I don't think Coleman's going to be in it, she's off to be Queen Victoria next...

This is going to be Grange Hill with monsters, isn't it? Personally, I think they should bring back MI High. That was good. Although not Who related.

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-02, 04:33 PM
I don't think Coleman's going to be in it, she's off to be Queen Victoria next...

Because there are no documented occurrences of an actor appearing in two programs in the same year.

Skyquake87
2015-10-02, 04:44 PM
No there hasn't and la la la la you can't make me see la la la la

Tetsuro
2015-10-02, 04:59 PM
I'm guessing the Coal Hill Highschool spinoff will be a spiritual successor to Sarah Jane Adventures.

Skyquake87
2015-10-02, 05:18 PM
I think the success of SJA and also Wizards Vs Aliens has made them mindful there's a good audience for fantasy/sci-fi amongst kids. Not sure about Class though, although if they have thingy thing whom was in 'The Caretaker' and 'Kill The Moon', it might be worth watching (I forget the girls name Ellis George or something, I think..)

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-10-03, 08:37 PM
Under The Lake

Well, I enjoyed that. Not a Dalek in sight, and creepy ghosts to boot. Horribly derivative, of course, but I can't help myself. A flooded village is a nice idea. Did the dam burst because the spaceship crashed into it?

Skyquake87
2015-10-04, 09:12 AM
I also thought that this was very good :) The base under siege is bread and butter to Who, which has probably done more of these sorts of stories than anything else, but I like that it keeps finding new things to do with them. I do like Toby Whithouse's stuff for Who, he's a good fit for the show. What I found interesting was how the softening of Twelve here worked a lot better than in the Dalek two-parter (One of things I really enjoyed about Series 8 was that we got to see the more curt, serious and alien side of the Doctor that we haven't seen since Six).

Likeable and convincing supporting cast too - as much as I liked The Satan Pit two parter, some of support in that weren't so hot on making me feel they actually did the jobs they were there for - with only Clara letting the side down. whilst Clara's has never been terribly well characterised, Jenna Coleman has worked very well with a very sketchy outline of a character. Here, reduced to 'what larks' dialogue and just asking questions, felt again that no one really knows how to write her or what to do with her. Like last week, its left her looking a bit rubbish and superfluous, which is a shame as at this rate, I wont be sorry when her eventual departure arrives.

Other things : loved the cards gag (and actually paused the telly to read them all - the first time I've bothered to do this), my favourite being the one that read 'No One's going to get exterminated / vapourised/ turned into jelly' :)

Michael Pickwoad's superb design work shines through on this too (you can barely tell its the reused Dalek set).

Summerhayes
2015-10-04, 09:01 PM
That was a cracker! As I've not been keeping up, the cliffhanger was a real shocker. I didn't even know this was a two parter, and keeping the pre-drowning village for one episode feels really clever.

I did like the bit with the Doctor worrying about Clara becoming too much like him, but it doesn't really work, does it? She was like that when they met...

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-04, 09:43 PM
Thoroughly enjoyable little first-parter.

Elements of Aliens, Alien 3 and Red Dwarf's Justice World thrown in there. As a wise man once said, if you steal from one place it's plagiarism, if you steal from multiple places it's research.

Has Who genuinely never done "proper dead people ghosts" ghosts before?

Not that I believe that's what we've got here, but it's a bit of a surprise if that's the case. That said, the only occasions I can think of are Ghost Light (which I don't think was ghosts? I can't be expected to remember the plot of GL) and Unquiet Dead which had some technobabble stasis handwave iirc.

Summerhayes
2015-10-04, 10:34 PM
This will, of course, be technobabbled away as well but I don't think we've ever had "as soon as someone dies" ghosts like this in anything other than Tom and Jerry, so it is interesting.

Also, how many times now since Moffat took over have we had a pre - ordained death for the Doctor to move towards? This is already the second one this season, we had the impossible astronaut and the wedding of River Song... any others?

inflatable dalek
2015-10-05, 07:51 PM
Havn't seen this week's yet so I'm ignoring the above posts for now but I thought it'd worth sharing that:


****ING HELL BIG FINISH HAVE GOT JOHN HURT.

No one expected that, people were assuming the big announcement today would be the Tennant/Tate audios that have been an open secret for a few weeks now.

Considering he seemed very much a one-off, getting more performed Hurt is lovely, especially as the books--did Engines of War not do very well?--now seem to be quietly ignoring him (not being featured in The Time Lord Letters or the short stories in the recent science book) despite prose being a really easy place to do him at any age.

inflatable dalek
2015-10-06, 08:08 PM
And now having seen the episode:


Good solid mean and potatoes Who, I suspect once it goes into rotation on Watch with the older episodes it'll blur into peoples minds with the aforementioned Impossible Planet (though of course, that was 9 years ago now), but it does it well and has a nice--Ghostwatch inspired?--look to the ghosts.

Mildly disappointed that the sonic glasses are actually a thing rather than a one off gag.

After both Rose and the Pandorica Opens danced around using the name it was odd to finally hear "Auton" said outloud in a new who episode when they're not in it.

I also didn't entirely buy that of all the "Gasp, is it ghosts?!?!" plots we've had (going back at least as far as Day of the Daleks) this is the one that makes the Doctor go "Yep, this is totally real". Though the season break made it a bit less obvious, it was slightly poorly timed as it's only been four episodes since the last "Ghosts!" story, something that the episode itself has to slightly awkwardly acknowledge without either the Doctor or Clara going "Yeah, remeber how quite recently we thought we'd found out what happened to you after you died but it turned out to be an elaborate trick?"

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-10-08, 10:27 AM
Crazy Clara speculation ahoy!

There are online rumours that Clara is, in fact a post-Simm, pre-Gomez iteration of the Master, chameleon arched to be disguised as a human. There are apparently clues to this, if you feel like looking for them.

Crazy thought: If the above proves true, it does make Clara picking up and examining a somewhat incongruously located G1 Galvatron toy waaaaay back towards the start of her tenure a clue/happy coincidence. Galvatron is, of course, the main hero's oldest foe, re-made in a new body, using a new name, etc. Galvatron was also in the employ of a higher power, intent on bigger things.

A hint at Missy now being in the employ of the Gallifreyan Time Lords again, with a mission related to the Doctor?

I'm over-thinking things again, aren't I?

Summerhayes
2015-10-08, 05:09 PM
That would also explain the episode where she briefly turned into a big purple cannon. I always thought it was odd they never mentioned that...

Skyquake87
2015-10-08, 09:39 PM
...that whiffs of that fan theory that was doing the rounds back in '08 about Harriet Jones being so offended by The Doctor's undoing of her life that she end up becoming the Supreme Dalek.

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-11, 02:04 PM
Ah, so it wasn't the First Evil after all. It was a member of a Norwegian death metal band. My mistake.

Big fan of "let's fanny away the opening segment explaining what the bootstrap paradox is (despite telling people to just google it) so we can end the episode by going 'ah, but it's a bootstrap paradox' rather than just working out an explanation".

Other than that, was alright.

Are we two-parters for the entire series?

Skyquake87
2015-10-11, 09:15 PM
I think so, but I'm not sure...

Thought Calpadi's theme tune was improved by a bit of metal guitar. Episode itself was good and a solid follow up to last week's effort. As ever, proclamations of the Doctor's death were wildly exaggerated (again) and I would have felt clever about working out The Doctor was in the coffin if I'd called that last week. Clara wasn't much use in this two-parter was she? I think this has been the first time her lack of characterization has bugged me, as she was just a bit whiny and annoying, which is a shame.

Next week: Space Vikings! And Maisie Williams (who could she be?)

Summerhayes
2015-10-12, 11:39 AM
I'd quite like it if they were all two-parters, as long as that means good cliffhangers and less rushed endings.

Before the Flood... it was alright. I liked the bootstrap paradox stuff at the bookends, I liked the guitar intro, but the bulk of it was pretty much generic Who. Not bad, not great, just... alright.

Next week though: Vikings! And Arya! Yay!

inflatable dalek
2015-10-16, 12:41 PM
Like the first part, solid workmanlike Who. Only this time with a monster that looked like a vagina from the front and a penis hanging out of an anus from the back. Either someone won a bet about what they can sneak through or they really need to think a bit more carefully about what they're creating.

I'm not sure why now, after a decade of Moffat time paradox stories the show suddenly felt a need to have the Doctor deliver a lecture to camera explaining them. It would have made sense in Blink for the Doctor to go "I'm acting in this way because you told me I told you I did it, but who had the idea first?", doing it now just makes him look a bit slow in realising it.

I listened to the Lisa Bowerman read audiobook of the original Human Nature at work this week. After eight years of the "Honestly, everything is canon, everything fits!" people going "The Doctor could totally have done this twice, I mean, the book's not even that similar to the TV version!" I was surprised how faithful an adaptation the Tennant version.

It's leaner and more focused (to it's benefit, even if you lose some nice stuff), but all the plot beats and all the major moments--including what often sounds like alternate drafts of the TV scripts' dialogue--but it is very much the same beast.

MILD SPOILERS FOR 20 YEAR OLD BOOK (and 8 year old TV show that, if you've seen it, will spoil most of the 20 year old book) FOLLOW:

The main way the TV show improves on the book is the villains are far more distinct and memorable (though ironically less powerful. Incidentally, did I miss something or was neither Bernice or the Doctor not worried at all by the radiation from the nuked school at the end?), other than balloon girl, wisely the only one carried directly over, I found it hard to keep track of which one was which.

The main way the book improves on the TV show is Bernice is actually competent and it's as much her story as it is the Doctor, a far cry from poor old "I'm from the future!" Martha. How they both react to finding out one of their friends (their only real friend in Martha's case) has been killed and replaced is very telling. Bernice is horrified, pissed off and then even more determined. Martha barely seems to notice (and considering the TV version makes much more of a thing of all the death being the Doctor's fault, oddly something Bernice and Joan are keen to assure him isn't the case in the book, you'd think she'd be really ****ed off with him about that at least).

Interestingly, the casting of the characters who have analogies in both versions is completely spot on in the telly version, there's nothing jarring about picturing the guest actors when reading the book.

And I mean, seriously, what sort of person reads the scene of the Doctor standing in the Tardis console room crying and goes "He'd totally do this again in a few bodies time"? It's clearly an experience he can only go through once, the TV and book versions really aren't in the same continuity even if it wasn't such a faithful adaptation.

I was amused Steven Moffat is actually a character in the book, getting to mock McCoy's "Unconvincing" Scottish accent. Considering "Mr. Moffat" is also the Bursar I suspect a nod at the very heavy debt to Reaper Man as well.

It's a shame the text used in the BBC website ebook version with the "N" word edited out. Not that I'm against the choice, but they cut out Joan being racist but leave in Bernice thinking what a horrible racist she is, which just makes her look a bit overly jealous.

But all in all, a fantastic book, well worth listening to/reading if anyone hasn't.

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-16, 01:46 PM
Maybe he wanted to do it in Blink, but RTD slapped him down on the grounds that it's ****ing inane.

[make your own "RTD / inane" jokes at home]

inflatable dalek
2015-10-16, 01:52 PM
Maybe he wanted to do it in Blink, but RTD slapped him down on the grounds that it's ****ing inane.

[make your own "RTD / inane" jokes at home]

He's had nearly six years in charge to slip it into one of the 800 episodes* he's overseen with the same basic plot.

I have the terrible feeling someone started with the idea of the Doctor actually playing the theme tune and worked backwards from there (I hope Capaldi actually did guitar on that. Shame they presumably won't be keeping it).




*EDIT: More seriously, apparently he's now surpassed the number of episodes RTD produced and--counting each new Who episode as equivalent to two original series ones--will have done more than Barry Letts by the end of this year. Making him second to JNT as the man who has been overall responsible for the most Who.

Denyer
2015-10-16, 02:26 PM
It's clearly an experience he can only go through once, the TV and book versions really aren't in the same continuity even if it wasn't such a faithful adaptation.

But with Who, continuity is frequently re-written. I don't see a clash personally.

Now, you may well be thinking: 'Beer? What a terrible idea. That's no solution.' I would reply that you're wrong. It's a solution of hops, barley and yeast, and it is so transcendently wonderful that I long ago made the decision to sacrifice any chance of trim thighs in favour of it.

Benny is a great companion when well written, and flippant and serious in equal measure like, well, real people. Martha didn't really get more than one or two episodes of that -- although wasn't there a lot of criticism about her acting range? Suited early Torchwood better, anyway.

inflatable dalek
2015-10-16, 02:46 PM
But with Who, continuity is frequently re-written. I don't see a clash personally.

Oh sure, but saying (to use the typical example for massaging new series/spinoff contradiction) "The Time War means X no longer happened" is basically the same as "X never happened".

Plus, with Human Nature I've seen people seriously suggest the Doctor would do that to himself twice. Which is clearly missing the actually point of what a personal story it is to him.

Canonicity (I know at one point Cornell was quite cheerful to consign the to non-canon, I don't know if he's changed his mind and of course that doesn't affect how people take or leave it) or lack of it doesn't affect the many qualities of the book though.

Now, you may well be thinking: 'Beer? What a terrible idea. That's no solution.' I would reply that you're wrong. It's a solution of hops, barley and yeast, and it is so transcendently wonderful that I long ago made the decision to sacrifice any chance of trim thighs in favour of it.

Benny is a great companion when well written, and flippant and serious in equal measure like, well, real people. Martha didn't really get more than one or two episodes of that -- although wasn't there a lot of criticism about her acting range? Suited early Torchwood better, anyway.

Agreed on Benny, it's been years since I've read any of the NA's so it was interesting to hear her official actress reading a book written years before her casting, it all sounded spot on to the version I know from the audios so it seems Bowerman was a smart choice for the role (they were instructed to write with Emma Thompson in mind at the time weren't they?).

Martha is a weird one in that Freema is perfectly fine in the role, and no individual episode ruins her character. But all the little mistakes and moments of pure stupidity (culminating in, as I think Tom said at the time, the safety of the Earth being guaranteed by giving her the job of blowing it up. It takes 45 minutes for her to get a Torchwood regular killed as well)--not to mention writers constantly forgetting she's a doctor and just having her stand there watching people die without even offering to check a pulse--that buggers her up.

Speaking of canon and Torchwood, the (generally solid) Big Finish adaptation of Damaged Goods removes all references to the ongoing New Adventures (Psi Powers?) arc of the time and changed it to Torchwood being behind everything, mainly due to RTD freely admitting the original references had been shoehorned in anyway and he wanted something different there. He pushed for a happier ending as well.

Oh, and back on Human Nature... most of the nods at the rest of the series were unobtrusive, but who was Verity supposed to be? Just a representation of the Tardis or some NA character I didn't recognise?

Oh, and I thought the gag with the one surviving member of the family escaping from prison almost instantly in the shape of a cow rather undid the message of not killing him. Basically anyone he eats now is going to be the fault of those kids not smashing his skull in when they had the chance. Surely for the point to be made the system needs to work?

Denyer
2015-10-18, 12:49 PM
"The Time War means X no longer happened" is basically the same as "X never happened".
Depends when/where you're observing from. It's also key to a lot of plots, and not just Lawrence Miles stuff.

Yeah, Emma Thompson -- I've almost entirely bypassed her acting career, unintentionally, so can't really comment.

I think Verity is just a nod to Lambert and Newman.

Skyquake87
2015-10-18, 04:02 PM
'The Girl Who Died' was pretty decent and nicely played with expectations of who Maisie Williams would be (not Jenny/Susan/The Master/ Davros/ Harriet Jones/ Rose/ Dodo/ Sergeant Benton) and a fun way of defeating the toothy fish peoples. More enjoyable fluff and it feels a bit more like the show is remembering what its good at and where the format is at its strongest. Enjoyed Clara here as well, for the first time this series. On the production front, I found The Mire's armoured forms to be the latest in a line of unconvincing robot-y forms. They just looked a bit two spongey and like they lacked any weight. Puzzling that Who has this down pat for the Daleks and Nightmare -era Cybermen, but struggles with other robot-y type things. I was also quite excited to see the show have a reference to the Nu-Who era. Perhaps because it made a change from seeing yet another barrage of clips from the Classic era.

I'll let someone else make a witty remark about the Doctor choosing his faces and what he may or may not have been thinking when he took Commander Maxill's face.

inflatable dalek
2015-10-23, 03:26 PM
Easily the best episode yet of the season (and worryingly the first of a minority that aren't a proper two parter), lots of big silly fun with some very nice guest performances (even if I have no idea who Williams is she did very well). How Doctor Who was it that they defeated the monster by doing a massive piss take of them?

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-23, 05:27 PM
(even if I have no idea who Williams is she did very well)

I'm sure she'll be glad to know her acting ability exists independently from your knowledge of her career.

I liked the bit where he said "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" and then basically admitted he has no idea what that means.

inflatable dalek
2015-10-24, 11:29 AM
I'm sure she'll be glad to know her acting ability exists independently from your knowledge of her career.

I wasn't expecting to be impressed considering the stunt casting doesn't always work (Denis Pennis was basically wasted doing a David Walliams impression the previous week) and that the season trailer had put a weight on her presence that would have been hard to live up (and which arguably the character didn't, it was mainly the quality of the performance which made it interesting).

I wonder if there's an influence from the Doctor Who Magazine comic here? A character in the eighth Doctor strips was made immortal in almost exactly the same "Given too good a cure" way. Which is interesting as they ended up working for The Master...

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-24, 01:57 PM
It's cos she's young and has mostly only done proper stuff. She hasn't learnt that she's not meant to take Who seriously yet.

Whereas Paul Kaye can alternate back and forth between serious stuff and turning up for the money, she's still only got the one setting.

I'm sure he'll set her straight if they overlap filming the new season of Thrones, though.

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-27, 09:31 AM
Maisie's confirmed as being back again for ep 10.

I can't see her being a long-term recurring guest star, as "character who never ages, played by an 18 year old" is a seriously risky game to play.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-10-28, 11:08 AM
So, that trailer for next week's episode...

Osgood appears to be back! Or is it her Zygon "clone"? Which one was zapped my Missy? Any thoughts?

And, on a similar note, is it possible that Clara is a Zygon? Was she ever left alone with a Zygon in the 50th Anniversary special? Maybe The Doc has twigged, and is using the new Sonic Sunnies to see the "real" Clara... :cool:

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-28, 11:30 AM
So, that trailer for next week's episode...

Osgood appears to be back! Or is it her Zygon "clone"? Which one was zapped my Missy? Any thoughts?

Show about time travel, innit.

Okay it probably won't be that straightforward because DAMN YOU MOFFAT but occam's razor needs breaking out occasionally.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-10-28, 11:34 AM
Show about time travel, innit.

Okay it probably won't be that straightforward because DAMN YOU MOFFAT but occam's razor needs breaking out occasionally.

Oh. Yeah. How stupid do I feel? :lol:

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-28, 11:54 AM
Hey, I could be wrong.

I genuinely don't remember much about Day of the Doctor, having only seen it the once. You could well be on to something. But my default setting on the situation is as mentioned.

It really depends on what setting Moffat's "OH MY GOD AREN'T WE SO ****ING CLEVER"ometer was set to during the episode's production.

Sades
2015-10-29, 11:37 PM
Is this the thread where we were doing the "Oh hey yeah, that episode was good/**** Clara!" thing in, or was it the other one?

We watched the second Viking-ish (horned helmets? COME ONNN) episode a few days ago. It was entertaining. I look forward to seeing more of that Stark girl in future episodes.

inflatable dalek
2015-10-30, 08:26 AM
The Woman Who Lived was generally good solid fun, even if it had to sheepishly admit near the end they've done a lot of this before with Captain Jack. I'm surprised they didn't have the Doctor going "This is quite like that episode of Blackadder the Third". Though the "Well hung" gag may have been a nod at that.

The alien plot did feel tacked on though, as if the writer realised halfway through writing it that the whole show was just two people talking and they should probably add a plot.

I was hoping that once it turned out he was a liar that it would also be the case that the villain was taking the piss with the "Mr Katt from Planet Pus-E" style stuff.

Brendocon 2.0
2015-10-30, 09:25 AM
Though the "Well hung" gag may have been a nod at that.

Thing is, Blackadder I can let get away with that. DW as a program should know that it's hanged.

The alien plot did feel tacked on though, as if the writer realised halfway through writing it that the whole show was just two people talking and they should probably add a plot.

Then realised they didn't have enough plot so pointed at Rufus Hound and said "you, you're meant to be funny. Just pad for ten minutes with a shit stand-up routine for no reason."

Yeah mate, you're to be hanged. We're not going to tie you up or keep you under guard or anything. You can just stand at the gallows and we'll trust you not to do a runner. BTW we can't hang you until you've stopped talking.

**** off.

inflatable dalek
2015-10-30, 06:15 PM
Then realised they didn't have enough plot so pointed at Rufus Hound and said "you, you're meant to be funny. Just pad for ten minutes with a shit stand-up routine for no reason."

Yeah mate, you're to be hanged. We're not going to tie you up or keep you under guard or anything. You can just stand at the gallows and we'll trust you not to do a runner. BTW we can't hang you until you've stopped talking.

**** off.

Well, if the puritans of Cromwell's England are famous for anything, it's liking a good laugh.

It was also odd they took the Doctor's "Pardon" seriously despite him also being a wanted man (and Hound shouting "Doctor!" at him loudly kind of remove any ambiguity there. You'd have thought the crowd would have tried to earn that twenty pounds). And then they decided to hang the man who brought the personal pardon from Cromwell because, hey, Cromwell wouldn't mind that if it was genuine would he? Famously forgiving sort of fellow.

Maybe not being able to celebrate Christmas sent them a bit mad.

EDIT: Ah, and the big historical inaccuracy in that scene is apparently that there were black people in the crowd. Oh yes, that's what's riled up Gallifrey Base. Which is of course a sensible complaint as long as you ignore the fact Doctor Who isn't remotely historically accurate and that there would have been a decent sized non-white population that close to London anyway.

Sades
2015-10-30, 07:46 PM
I both <3 and hated the pointy helmets. Proper little troll, I think. :lol:

Brendocon 2.0
2015-11-01, 10:43 PM
So, that trailer for next week's episode...

Osgood appears to be back! Or is it her Zygon "clone"? Which one was zapped my Missy? Any thoughts?

And, on a similar note, is it possible that Clara is a Zygon? Was she ever left alone with a Zygon in the 50th Anniversary special? Maybe The Doc has twigged, and is using the new Sonic Sunnies to see the "real" Clara... :cool:

Or, y'know, 90% of what you said.

Skyquake87
2015-11-02, 08:34 PM
First part of the Zygon 2-parter was alright, although the whole Refugee/immigrant/Syria references were ladled on so heavily even RTD would blush. UNIT were shown up to be a bunch of divs yet again. sigh. It seemed to take a long time to get to the very obvious point, though. Did enjoy Osgood neither confirming or denying that she's one or the other. The 'hybrid' thing cropped up again too, which I liked even though its a heavy signpost about what the finale might be about.

Denyer
2015-11-02, 10:00 PM
I'm really enjoying the current two-part standard... it feels far more like Who with cliffhangers being a norm.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-11-06, 10:17 AM
I'm really enjoying the current two-part standard... it feels far more like Who with cliffhangers being a norm.

Agreed.

And now, a patented RnR random thought...

If (and that's a big if!), the extant Osgood survives this story, and she is actually the originally Zygon "sister", and she then goes a-travelling with Doctor Disco, would it be a good idea for the series for the Doc to have a shape shifting companion? I believe it was done in "classic" Who. Would it open up a world of possibilities for stealthy sneaking about and guest actors playing Osgood, or would it make things too hard to follow?

Brendocon 2.0
2015-11-08, 07:52 PM
Right, so at no point during that second episode did anybody utter the phrase "let Zygons be Zygons" so the entire program should be cancelled, the licence fee scrapped and the BBC abolished.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-11-08, 08:00 PM
Spooky "policemen" walking slowly along a road towards the Doctor - very Pertwee era, very good.

Online opinions of this one seem to be overwhelmingly positive. I thought it was good, but not great. Capaldi was good again, though. And he and Osgood make a good pairing. Osgood is clearly not going to be the next companion though.

Skyquake87
2015-11-09, 08:42 PM
I enjoyed the second part of this much more than the first. I'd agree that it was good, not great, but I really, really thought the Doctor's please-beseeching with the Zygons and the Humans was fantastic. Such smart and thoughtful dialogue and probably Capaldi's best moment for me - see, this is the kind of stuff he needs!!! Peter Harkness has impressed me with this two-parter, despite what I said upthread as there were some good points well made. And has banished memories of Kill The Moon. At least until the next time I watch that :P


Oh! And I forgot to add, had a feeling of deja vu watching the scenes around the council estate...which is where Ten, Martha and Captain Jack ran about and hid when Harold 'The Master' Saxon was Prime Minister.

inflatable dalek
2015-11-10, 09:07 PM
Yeah, that was good stuff. A bit on the nose with the politics, but at least it's vaguely current (whilst all that "Weapons of massive destruction" stuff in the RTD era was about three years to late) and heartfelt.

I'm not sure why Bonnie, who is fighting against Zygon's having to stay disguised as humans, was not only happy to stay disguised as a human even when she didn't have to but didn't question why Kate Stewart was doing it as well. Plus the practicalities of the show's budget--they couldn't have Zygon's just hanging about every time they visit present day Earth--means the ending was oddly against the spirit of the message with it's "Immigrants are great as long as they make sure they look and act just like us at all times" solution.

I was mildly surprised the second part wasn't postponed, or at least that the plane explosion wasn't edited out. Not that I think it should have been as such, it's just an odd change of approach after the editing of a beheading from Robot of Sherwood because of current news last year.

On the series in general, it's interesting how everyone involved is now being pretty much open that the later time slot has been a disaster. And whilst they're keen to stress that the next season will be 12 episodes, they've been dodging the question of when it will go out (I would guess it'll be like "Season 7", in that we'll actually get two seasons of six episodes they'll pretend is one so as to placate fans, with the second half in spring 2017 so as to bring the show back to an Easter start).

EDIT: Oh, and the embracing of crap 80's costumes was kind of awesome. Was Osgood's McCoy jumper more muted in colour than the original? It didn't stand out as much as usual, you could imagine her going down the shops and no one giving it a second look. Let's have her do the full Colin Baker next time.

Skyquake87
2015-11-11, 08:53 PM
It was interesting reading DWM commenting on the launch of the latest series and the lack of promotion for it by the BBC and (something I missed) launching it with a trailer with a clip of Clara going "The Doctor and Clara in the TARDIS. Same old, Same old." Have to agree, that doesn't really do much to sell the series.

As for the time slot, Who has really bounced around the schedules under Moffat - whether this is something he has control over or fights for, I don't know - I know RTD fought tooth and nail to keep Who to a 7pm timeslot - which means its easily missed (er, assuming you're not taping it watching online). Its a really odd thing to do, and its strange that even now, with their being a proven audience for Sci-Fi / Fantasy, the BBC are happy to mess viewers about with a changing time slot. I think if Who was doing the same sort of bleak stories as last year, there might be an argument for the later timeslot, but there's clearly been a response to viewer feedback that has resulted in a change of tone which doesn't suit the 8pm slot.

Fox and Sky, by comparrison have kept audiences - if not grown them - by keeping the likes of Walking Dead and Game Of Thrones to a similar launch month and time slot.

Sades
2015-11-11, 11:03 PM
I didn't really pay attention to the last one, watched bits of it though. Box bit felt a bit long for my tiny attention span that night. Osgoods are all right.

Brendocon 2.0
2015-11-16, 10:54 AM
Sleep No More

That was alright. Worked on first viewing and has a built-in get out of jail free card for any plot holes. Which is either lazy or genius, or possibly both.

I spent the entire runtime under the impression it was a two-parter so was caught-off guard by the ending, but that's not a bad thing.

Would love to be a fly on the wall the next time Neil Gaiman bumps into Mark Gatiss...