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zigzagger
2014-11-20, 03:00 AM
Transformers: More Than Meets The Eye #35 three-page preview by way of iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/transformers-more-than-meets/id943278906?mt=11).

Out Wednesday, November 26!

Unicron
2014-11-20, 03:43 AM
Hmmm... definitely some interesting bits here, and a lot of questions raised that will probably be answered over this and the next 37 issues.

Spoiler thingy, just to be safe.
So the Council sold/gave away Luna 2. Does that mean it was simply offlimits to Cybertronians while the BBC (interesting, either there's two groups in the galaxy with those initials, or they changed names for some reason) mines it, scraps it, or whatever they're doing with it, or that Luna 2 was literally taken away from Cybertron? And if the latter, then where the hell did the current Luna 2 come from?

Mass recalls of 'unnecessary' classes? So mass culling of parts of the species, I assume. Man, those Functionists were evil SOBs.

So Minimus does, or at least did, have an alt mode. Why do I have a feeling the next page is going to be him getting hassled or locked up by that Functionary.

EDIT: I totally missed them on the first look but holy hell is there a lot of Unicron Trilogy cameos, or themed generics, on that third page.

There was something bugging me about that first page, like something was missing, and it was pointed out elsewhere: There's no 'couple of million years ago' yellow text indicating this is a flashback. So with that and the hugely major events that would be the loss of Luna 2 and deportation of knock-offs going unmentioned previously, a theory has emerged that this is actually present day Cybertron after Brainstorm screwed something up in the past.
Seems quite likely, especially with Minimus having not seen Dominus for 2 million years. If this were really a flashback, then it would have to be a good ways pre-war, since Dom and Rewind were off planet at the start, which would mean the Ambuses were contemporaries of Cyclonus, Nova Prime, and all of them, which I don't think has been established before. So yeah, I'm thinking alternate present due to Brainstorm killing a cyberbutterfly by accident. Or Megatron. One of the two.

Terome
2014-11-20, 12:14 PM
You might be on to something there, Unicron. To my knowledge, the Black Block Consortia is a modern-day thing, the Primal Vanguard was never dissolved and I don't think even the Functionists were quite this evil. Luna 2 was being mined for sparks last we knew and had some kind of ancient cultural significance with intact courtrooms for Megatron's trial... something's up. Way up.

On the UT cameos, I spotted Energon Ironhide. Who am I missing?

Terome
2014-11-20, 12:18 PM
Also, what, unseated the Senate? Deported the knock-offs? When did that happen?

Man, looks like the ethics lesson is continuing. Megatron thought that someone else would be the Decepticon figurehead but it might turn out that only he could be the one fit for the job and only a horrible planet-destroying war could make Cybertronians act somewhat civil to each other. Bummer.

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-11-20, 01:23 PM
I am looking forward to this very much.

Unicron
2014-11-20, 06:18 PM
I can't take credit for the theory, someone else came up with it. It just makes a lot of sense and explains some stuff that I noticed.

On the UT cameos, I spotted Energon Ironhide. Who am I missing?
Arm Cyclonus, Demolisher and Blurr, Energon Ironhide, Snow Cat, Ultra Magnus, Cyb Jetfire. Also saw people mention seeing I think Crumplezone, Energon Cliffjumper/Beachcomber, and some others.

Oh, and there's a certain two medics on that landing near the top of the stairs in the first panel of page 3.

zigzagger
2014-11-21, 06:51 AM
Gah! I know I should know better than to trust the solicits, but it -- and the preview pages -- sure do match up with the aforementioned 'Stormy theory. Seems that way....

So what I'm saying is, I fully expect to be proven completely wrong by the time the full issue hits.

zigzagger
2014-11-25, 07:08 AM
Full preview's up @ Tformers (http://tformers.com/idw-comics-preview-the-transformers-more-than-meets-the-eye-35/25238/news.html).

Already can tell this one's going to be dense, which is good. So Elegant Chaos has been extended to a four-parter now? Thought it was supposed to start in issue #36.

Very exposition-y, these two additional pages. Good thing Minimus has been out of town so he can ask some of the same questions we have ;)

Nutty stuff happening here, though. Looking forward to the full issue.

Also...

Unicron called it.

Was that worth spoiler-tagging it? Eh, probably not.

Red Dave Prime
2014-11-25, 09:29 AM
Spoiler tagging is click bait tome. Spoiler your whole post and I am guaranteed to read it - twice!

Unicron
2014-11-25, 08:56 PM
Was that worth spoiler-tagging it? Eh, probably not.

Probably not, but that particular info isn't anything anyone really needs to know.

Poor, poor Energon Jetfire. Dude can't catch a break.

inflatable dalek
2014-11-26, 08:48 PM
SPOILERS




















As part one of a story there's a lot of set up and exposition here (especially in the "Real" timeline scenes), so this is something that'll probably read a bit better when done all in one go with the following issues.

But dang, there's some good ideas here. A villain trying to change history and making things worse even for them isn't entirely unprecedented (amongst other things it was the basic idea of Back to the Future 2 before the scene of Old Biff being erased from history because Lorraine had shot him during the '90's was cut), but it would still have been far more standard to show Brainstorm's effect simply to be having the Decepticon's win, this is far more interesting.

And hey, there's an actual plot reason for Rewind to be back as his database is going to be the litmus test for whether things are fixed or not!

I'd say Brainstorm is pretty much unambiguously evil isn't he at this stage?

The fate of Dominus was just nasty, and the eye cameras were a really neat piece of proper science fiction (for a while now I've thought there'd be something in that with the way electrical devices are shrinking all the time).

Ironically, as much as the new future is probably worse for all the Transformers, it probably means the rest of the galaxy is a lot better off doesn't it?

I will bet you know Megatron will be the leader of the resistance in the new present (or, if Roberts is being really tricksy, Orion Pax will be and Brainstorm has actually gone back to kill Megatron having decided all their defeats are actually their leader's fault and he's going to take charge using his future knowledge to try and change things).

Red Dave Prime
2014-11-26, 09:08 PM
Just finished it.

Oh My. So many ideas buzzing around my head with this. A very good read and hints at what could be a really definitive transformer story. The last few pages with Rewind and the house of Ambus boys was chilling in how much it echoed fears about modern tech and how we willingly let it invade our lives (compulsory "upgrade").

Denyer
2014-11-26, 09:14 PM
The JLI influence is becoming more apparent... short, punchy high-concept character driven stuff. Except it's awesomeness that hasn't dated.

Terome
2014-11-26, 09:41 PM
Flawless stuff. Genuinely scary alternate present and great scenes on the Lost Light. I particularly liked the 'last place I expected to find you' scene and the 'grotty fan club' line. Nice bit of unfashionable cartooning with the labels on the Functionist Council table. It's not just Scioli who can get diagrammatical when the situation calls for it.

And among all that is the wrenching but understated bit about Rewind not quite reintegrating with Chromedome and an offer of therapeutic mnemosurgery.

I'm subscribing to Dalek's theory that Megatron was/is Brainstorm's true target on the grounds that it is far more interesting.

It was early on when things were still solidifying, but it strikes me that Rewind in the first issue of MTMTE had a sort of nostalgic, almost warm view of Functionism - he kept his useless alt mode and repeated one of their slogans in a cheerful way. I'd like it if that was intentional - the way people in Russia have fond memories of Stalin and such.

Speaking of which, wasn't 'The Guided Hand' a phrase that Rewind read off the Matrix that only Optimus and Cyclonus knew anything about? Seems like the Functionists had the inside track, or got hold of the Matrix, or that it's more useful and interesting to have a widely shared cultural background rather than a secret history.

zigzagger
2014-11-27, 07:52 AM
Okay. I REALLY want to know what Brainstorm's motivation is, as this alternate new future is pretty freakin' nasty.

Shows how little we know about him. Assuming this is the future he had intended... maybe it isn't. Maybe this is an unintended consequence.

Also on board with Dalek on this one; Megatron seems to be a more likely target (I personally haven't bought into the Stormy being a Decepticon double-agent thing yet). Once more, I'm reminded of Optimus and Megatron's chat in Chaos Theory; without Megatron's uprising, there'd be no Optimus Prime, and thus no Autobots. At least, not as we know them. No Megatron also means there's no one to challenge the (then) status quo. The Functionalists (et al) are left more or less unfettered to evolve into, well, what we see here.

That's how I'm rationalizing it. Makes more sense to me than targeting Orion Pax, at any rate.

**sigh**

Whatever. I'm probably wrong.

Good showing from Rodimus. The focus these last seven issues has been skewed towards Megatron, and while that's not much of a criticism, it's still nice to see more of the old faces again. I guess it's the wait between issues that makes it seem like it's been forever since we've last seen the likes of Rodimus or Magnus.

Speaking of which, I'm starting to like the slightly-more-cynical Ultra Magnus. There's a glimmer of a personality trying to shine through. It looks like he's finally come to terms with life aboard the Lost Light and all that entails.

"Caught in another time paradox, you say? Huh. Must be a Wednesday."


At first I was just as confused as Rodimus and the others were, trying to work out the mechanics of Brainstorn's time machine with the multiple briefcases and... and the colorful technobabblery. Think I'll chalk it up as "magic", too.

Eh, I'm kind of a dunce already, especially when it comes to this sort of thing, so it all sounds plausible to me.

But in all seriousness, the real headscratcher, for me anyway, was how Perceptor came to the conclusion that Brainstorm time jumped. Did I skim past that part?


And among all that is the wrenching but understated bit about Rewind not quite reintegrating with Chromedome and an offer of therapeutic mnemosurgery.

Chromedome hasn't quite given me a reason to doubt his intentions -- or his feelings for Rewind -- but was I the only one that was worried that he might be considering doing more than just erasing ALL Rewind's memories of the DJD?

Warcry
2014-11-27, 08:45 PM
What an issue! A great view of what Cybertron might have become without Megatron and Optimus to tear the system down.

With the increasingly-grim view we're getting of pre-war Cybertron, though, I really do wonder why any of the NAILs wanted to come home after getting the "war's over!" signal.

I'd say Brainstorm is pretty much unambiguously evil isn't he at this stage?
Hard to say! We don't know what his motivations are, or what reasons (if any) he had for doing what he's done. We just have speculation from Rodimus and Megatron. We don't even know if he's actually a Decepticon, or if he really tried to kill anyone (if everyone knew that Swerve watered his drinks, well, that everyone included Brainstorm...). It looks bad, but I'm sure we'll think differently of him (for better or worse) once it's all done.

The fate of Dominus was just nasty, and the eye cameras were a really neat piece of proper science fiction (for a while now I've thought there'd be something in that with the way electrical devices are shrinking all the time).
I've seen the "eye cameras" thing done before, but it really is a perfect fit for Transformers in particular, with their mechanical biology. It also serves to underscore the hypocrisy of the Functionists nicely...they'll happily modify citizens (either like this, or with progressively awful means of Empurata) to suit their own ends, but still crow about how function follows form and your alt-mode defines your existence (even though it is clearly no problem to rebuild Transformers into new alt-modes). It shows nice and clear how not even the Council believes in their rhetoric, and the Taxonomy is nothing but a sham designed to keep the population in line.

Yet again, a great way to capitalize on the Transformers' mechanical nature and tell stories that just wouldn't be possible with humans.

Sidenote: I wonder what the knockoffs (who were lucky enough to merely be deported rather than "obsoleted") are up to in the new timeline. There were tons of them.

Ironically, as much as the new future is probably worse for all the Transformers, it probably means the rest of the galaxy is a lot better off doesn't it?
I don't know about that. The beginning suggests that the Transformers were at war with a large chunk of the civilized galaxy, and that they had to surrender a moon in order to end the conflict. Four million years of the Primal Vanguard running around squashing puny flesh creatures is probably just as bad as four million years of Autobots and Decepticons turning everyone else into collateral damage.

I will bet you know Megatron will be the leader of the resistance in the new present (or, if Roberts is being really tricksy, Orion Pax will be and Brainstorm has actually gone back to kill Megatron having decided all their defeats are actually their leader's fault and he's going to take charge using his future knowledge to try and change things).
Or Brainstorm isn't a Decepticon at all and his crudely-scrawled badge is only an attempt to fit in during the pre-war days so he can get close enough to Megatron to kill him and prevent the war in the first place, which (he thinks) will make the future a better place? :glance:

It was early on when things were still solidifying, but it strikes me that Rewind in the first issue of MTMTE had a sort of nostalgic, almost warm view of Functionism - he kept his useless alt mode and repeated one of their slogans in a cheerful way. I'd like it if that was intentional - the way people in Russia have fond memories of Stalin and such.
Wouldn't you be? It may have been oppressive and cruel, especially for those of his class, but at least there was always Energon on the table and his friends weren't constantly being butchered in combat. Safety and comfort will always look pretty good when you're looking back on them from a time of horrible, dangerous freedom.

Good showing from Rodimus. The focus these last seven issues has been skewed towards Megatron, and while that's not much of a criticism, it's still nice to see more of the old faces again. I guess it's the wait between issues that makes it seem like it's been forever since we've last seen the likes of Rodimus or Magnus.
That's because it has been! Between the recent Megatron-focused issues and Dark Cybertron before it, it's been over a year since we've seen Rodimus or Magnus really take centre stage in a MTMTE adventure.

But in all seriousness, the real headscratcher, for me anyway, was how Perceptor came to the conclusion that Brainstorm time jumped. Did I skim past that part?
I missed that too.

Chromedome hasn't quite given me a reason to doubt his intentions -- or his feelings for Rewind -- but was I the only one that was worried that he might be considering doing more than just erasing ALL Rewind's memories of the DJD?
Yeah...I got the feeling that he'd at least consider erasing all of Rewind's memories of his time on the other Lost Light (conveniently getting rid of the "You're not my Chromedome!" complaint) or possibly even rewriting those memories with constructs based on what his Rewind lived through. I don't know if he'd actually do it, but it has to be tempting.

zigzagger
2014-11-28, 09:25 AM
I missed that too.

Okay, good. Thought something had went over my head. Mind, I'm game for time travelling shenanigans, but it seemed like a bit of a stretch.

Still, it's the Lost Light. Guess I'll just go along with it.

In a similar vein; while I'm willing to bet there's more to Brainstorm's briefcase than being a component to some convoluted time traveling device (apparently it can also jumble the order of events), how come the Sparkeater, waaaaay back in issue #3, is turned away by it?

That's because it has been! Between the recent Megatron-focused issues and Dark Cybertron before it, it's been over a year since we've seen Rodimus or Magnus really take centre stage in a MTMTE adventure.......

Damn, you're right. Not since Remain in Light have either of them been in the forefront.

I've missed them :(

But hey, it's all good. If what I'm taking from this issue is true -- that only a handful of folks are in on this time jumping business -- that means we'll have a whole storyline to spend more quality time with Magnus and Rodimus.

Terome
2014-11-28, 10:20 AM
Okay, good. Thought something had went over my head. Mind, I'm game for time travelling shenanigans, but it seemed like a bit of a stretch.

Still, it's the Lost Light. Guess I'll just go along with it.

In a similar vein; while I'm willing to bet there's more to Brainstorm's briefcase than being a component to some convoluted time traveling device (apparently it can also jumble the order of events), how come the Sparkeater, waaaaay back in issue #3, is turned away by it?

......


I think Perceptor went to the lab, saw the arrangement of briefcases and did some investigating. I imagine that everybody thought there was only one and that is why its contents and purposes were inscrutable.

As for the sparkeater - remember that Brainstorm has no spark thanks to his contact with Nova Prime's body. Perceptor doesn't know that and says that Brainstorm has linked his briefcase to his spark and only someone who shares his spark-type can follow him. Brainstorm harvested that green spark in Remain In Light so I guess that means only Megatron and Ultra Magnus can go time-jumping.

So was the spark-harvesting a precautionary measure to limit those who could follow him? Was he just messing everyone around by saying the idea of putting the green spark in his briefcase had blown his mind or did he take that as a suggestion?

Red Dave Prime
2014-11-28, 01:42 PM
I took it that when they found the spark field in remain in light and brainstorms mind was blown by the idea of merging the briefcase with the green spark that this idea really came to his plan. I think otherwise he was just bidding his time.

Its possible that brainy isn't evil though. As said, he may have known that the drinks were watered down. Its possible he is aligned to the belief of the decepticon ideal rather then being a straight up bad guy. In the same way thundercracker is a somewhat noble con. Ironic that his plan becomes the cause of even greater repression for cybertronians

Death's Head
2014-11-28, 03:57 PM
Don't forget there's the anti-Megatron cabal on the ship. Maybe Brainstorm isn't, in fact a Decepticon, but is working with them -and naturally, his contribution to the cause would be the most extreme.

inflatable dalek
2014-11-28, 04:15 PM
Hahaha.Warcry has posted in this thread! Time for the monthly argument with Captain Grumpy over his finding of flaws in the issue. The absolute highlight of my lonely and miserable life. He he.

I really need to get a handle on the whole inner monologue thing.

What an issue! A great view of what Cybertron might have become without Megatron and Optimus to tear the system down.



Waaaaaaaaaaaait.... what? Has Roberts actually managed to change actual reality? What's going on?!?!!?!!!?!!!?????? :0


Hard to say!

Sure it is. And Trailbreaker's death was ambiguous. :p

What I did like, was that the need to use Quantum engines actually gives a reason for him coming on the Lost Light in the first place, it's already been established as being in some way a special ship so presumably he wanted to study the technology to perfect his technique.

Thinking about it actually, the theory of time travel here is clearly based on Roberts thinking very hard about how it worked in the UK stories and trying to deal with various oddities (moving through space as well as time, the future just sort of carrying on with none of the changes in the past affecting it) to be found there.

Mind, whilst I can see why Roberts would have Perceptor firmly debunk the idea time travel is going to work like it did in the rebooted Star Trek film (because if every time you time travel you do go into a parallel timeline and the original carries on regardless there wouldn't be much of a sense of jeopardy nor a lot of motivation to go after him as a universe where those things happened would exist anyway), it is odd that we're told parallel Universes don't exist whilst at the same time cutting to an alternate version of the present that is... well parallel.

Come to that, isn't the whole idea of Quantum physics based upon the "Infinite number of possible outcomes all happening" idea?



Or Brainstorm isn't a Decepticon at all and his crudely-scrawled badge is only an attempt to fit in during the pre-war days so he can get close enough to Megatron to kill him and prevent the war in the first place, which (he thinks) will make the future a better place? :glance:

I suppose the big clue about what he's after is last issue he materialised where Megatron was in the past rather than where Pax was.

He's so a Decepticon.


On the whole "Is this actually what Brainstorm wanted?" thing, considering he was established as "Knock Off" back in Remain in Light I'd say things firmly got out of his control.

On a similar note, Roberts confirmed a while ago the Spark Eater ignored Brainstorm because he was dead, the holding up of the briefcase was just a bluff (interestingly he's also said that whilst Brainstorm was always going to be dead, it would have been for different reasons and had a different outcome if Dark Cybertron hadn't come along and made it a sensible place to deal with the idea).



Yeah...I got the feeling that he'd at least consider erasing all of Rewind's memories of his time on the other Lost Light (conveniently getting rid of the "You're not my Chromedome!" complaint) or possibly even rewriting those memories with constructs based on what his Rewind lived through. I don't know if he'd actually do it, but it has to be tempting.

It's alright, his good buddy Brainstorm will likely disuade him of doing anything so drastic like last time.


Oh.

zigzagger
2014-11-28, 08:40 PM
RE: Sparkeater: Riiiiiiight, Dark Cybertron. Didn't follow that one too closely. Aside from MTMTE #27 and a few other key moments, I honestly don't remember much about it.

Shame that such important plot elements were wasted on an 'event' that most people weren't too excited about.

---

Double-post

[/MERGE]

Another thought:

Now that we know that Brainstorm's briefcase can be used for time travel, I'm even more intrigued by the mysteries surrounding the second briefcase, why/how it was separated from ALL Brainstorm, and why ALL Rewind (along with the duplicate briefcase) didn't disappear with the rest of his Lost Light.

No clue what the connection is with those things and what's happening now in the 'original' timeline, but I have a nagging suspicion that there is. It's something to do with Rewind maybe...? Does seem a bit curious that his memories are mixing with the alternate timeline's, but Minimus/Magnus's have not yet.

Hmmm. Kind of suggests that there was time jumping taking place on the alternate Lost Light too.

Definately more going on with ALL Rewind than he's letting on.

inflatable dalek
2014-11-29, 05:13 PM
Also, did we witness the death of yet another Rewind at the end of this issue? All these different versions getting killed off won't be good for the ALL one's psyche.

Hmm, we need a new acronym to differentiate the various alternate bods we'll be meeting in the new present.

I shall call it BR (as in Brainstorm's Reality). So BR Rewind, BR Ambus and so on and so forth.

This time next week you'll all be doing it.

So we have OLL Rewind, ALL Rewind and BR Rewind. Simples.

Also, I've found Ultra Magnus' favourite song:

M94ii6MVilw

Unicron
2014-11-29, 05:15 PM
I'm still not convinced Brainstorm is actually using the green spark for himself/his time travel scheme. At least not until we see the thing actually in his chest/hooked up to the machine. I'm still inclined to think he's going to (or at least try to) build a 'Phase sixer'.

For the why to the time travel, I'm of split opinion on the reason he went back. I'm certain Brainy isn't really a Decepticon and that the faceplate was a red herring planted by the the ALL's real mole. So I'm down to two real options:
1. He went back to hunt down some Ununtrium and other materials needed for making a Phase Sixer, and did some random thing that messed with the timeline in the process. Or
2. He's actually a functionist hard liner and his whole intent in travelling back was to do things that would ensure the Functionist Council rose to power without the Senate interfering with them. (Could swear there was a solicitation talking about the Functionists wanting revenge on Pax for something, even if it took millions of years to get it)

I'm not sure what's up with Rewind picking up memories from his altered present counterpart, aside from the possibility he's somehow being connected to the quantum engines, and thus the briefcase time machine, from when the ALL's engines were shut off (I'd say Megatron wasn't because they weren't his engines, or because he wasn't a result of a quantum duplicating. That or he doesn't get the memory mix because he's dead in the altered present).

Auntie Slag
2014-11-29, 06:21 PM
Were the Functionists overthrown by the Senate in the past, or were the Senate members puppets of the Functionists? I've forgotten at what point the Functionists fell into myth (presuming they're not around in the present day OLL, as it were).

I've a feeling Rewind isn't going to be around for too long. In a Pipes' way he's destined to get shafted no matter what destiny he's in. And I'm SO GLAD he and Chromedome didn't get back together like nothing much had happened.

I thought this issue was spectacular. Its got all the good feeling and interweaving of Shadowplay & more. I love the Judge Dredd coloured (and detailed) Functionist enforcers, the clever slogans everywhere which state their intentions so plainly...

And I got the subscription cover with Three of Twelve on the front. If that isn't one of the most sinister covers I've ever seen on a Transformers title i'll eat some twist n' share garlic bread.

Unicron
2014-11-29, 07:09 PM
Were the Functionists overthrown by the Senate in the past, or were the Senate members puppets of the Functionists? I've forgotten at what point the Functionists fell into myth (presuming they're not around in the present day OLL, as it were).

Pretty sure the Functionists were overthrown along with the Senate, as they were still active during Shadowplay (as evidenced by Nightbeat and Quark's[I think that was the microscope dude}, and Prowl and "Chromedome"'s conversations). The war kicking off kind of threw the Functionist ideals out the window, what with people like Megatron being repurposed from miners to war machines, and other alt mode swaps. They may have even been taken out by the Decepticons early in the war in a similar way to the Senate.

I would think the Functionists and the Senate acted like say a Government and a Church did back in the Middle Ages or so. So both were powerful institutions, with the Senate running the day to day stuff while the Functionists had outsized influenced and enforced their will on how society worked.

Presumably there'd be some fanatics floating around still who are Pro-Functionist. Brainy may well be one of them. But if so, he hides it pretty damn well.

Terome
2014-11-29, 08:15 PM
That's a good point, Unicron. The Functionists have 'Catholicism' written all over them. That's probably a good way to interpret their relationship to the Senate (remember that Cybertron is divided, politically, into city-states, each with their own representative in the Senate).

Re: Rewind's memories - it's not his memories being replaced but the information in his database. This probably ties in to the ideas Nightbeat had about data ghosts and whatnot when the Lost Light was disappearing.

I'd buy Brainstorm as a Functionist agent rather than a Decepticon. Chromedome called him out on his insincerity on the 'equal rights for knock-offs' line. We also don't know what his reaction to Tyrest's thingy meant. If he was forged he could have been faking the pain or his jury rigged dead spark might have had an averse reaction to the signal. If he was constructed cold then he might be stuck with a fatal case of self-loathing. Doesn't seem like Stormy's style but it could work...

Unicron:1. He went back to hunt down some Ununtrium and other materials needed for making a Phase Sixer, and did some random thing that messed with the timeline in the process.

That's not a bad connection. He would have known where Ununtrium was to be found as there's not much of it around. It does seem to be native to Cybertron and its moons though, doubtful if it would show up on Messantine, which seems to be very far away.

Zigzagger: There's something nagging me about all the warp gates and such surrounding the ALL. I'd suspect a botched time jump or two happening there.

Warcry
2014-11-29, 08:58 PM
Hahaha.Warcry has posted in this thread! Time for the monthly argument with Captain Grumpy over his finding of flaws in the issue. The absolute highlight of my lonely and miserable life. He he.
:lol:

Mind, whilst I can see why Roberts would have Perceptor firmly debunk the idea time travel is going to work like it did in the rebooted Star Trek film (because if every time you time travel you do go into a parallel timeline and the original carries on regardless there wouldn't be much of a sense of jeopardy nor a lot of motivation to go after him as a universe where those things happened would exist anyway), it is odd that we're told parallel Universes don't exist whilst at the same time cutting to an alternate version of the present that is... well parallel.
It's not really, though. The version of Cybertron that we're seeing is the real one now. The Lost Light hasn't phased out of existence yet because Brainstorm's briefcase-machine is protecting it, but everything else from the universe we know is gone and has been replaced with the new one.

Not that there aren't other flaws with the idea, such as...

Come to that, isn't the whole idea of Quantum physics based upon the "Infinite number of possible outcomes all happening" idea?
This I agree with you on. I'm not a quantum physicist by any means but I think your take on things is, if nothing else, a decent approximation of the idea.

Also the pat "no other universes" rule is completely blown out of the water by the existence of the Dead Universe, if nothing else.

I suppose the big clue about what he's after is last issue he materialised where Megatron was in the past rather than where Pax was.
Yep, that's what I was thinking too.

That's a good point, Unicron. The Functionists have 'Catholicism' written all over them. That's probably a good way to interpret their relationship to the Senate (remember that Cybertron is divided, politically, into city-states, each with their own representative in the Senate).
That's the only way I could make sense of it myself, though I thought of a modern example first in Iran -- the Functionist Council fill the Ayatollah's role while the Senate are the secular government.

That's not a bad connection. He would have known where Ununtrium was to be found as there's not much of it around. It does seem to be native to Cybertron and its moons though, doubtful if it would show up on Messantine, which seems to be very far away.
The problem with that (and the whole idea of ununtrium being rare and special, TBH) is that ununtrium is a real element that even us mere humans can synthesize in a lab. Naturally-occurring samples are going to be rare but I don't understand why Brainstorm would need to time-travel to get it. Just set up a particle accelerator and get to work making your own!

Of course in real life it's got a half-life of twenty seconds, is scorchingly radioactive and doesn't make you invincible, so it's probably best to just pretend that it's a magical fantasy compound and leave it at that. Especially since Roberts only used it because it has the atomic number 113 and he can't help himself from making 113 in-jokes...

Rack 'n Ruin
2014-11-29, 10:30 PM
Wow. I <3 Roberts.

inflatable dalek
2014-11-30, 01:58 AM
:lol:

Laugh it up.When everyone is going ALL, OLL and BR who'll be laughing then?

In terms of influences on Roberts, I think something that hasn't been mentioned that he would have been exposed to at the end of his teens after first reading Target: 2006 at the start of them is the one big time travel show everyone of that age in the UK would have been seen: The Girl From Tomorrow.

Or more importantly in this case, The Return of the Girl From Tomorrow where the villain tries to use the time travel device to change the past to his benefit, and winds up creating an absolute crapfest of a "Present" (in this case, the year 3000) as a result.

Both series of The Girl From Tomorrow are comfortably the best thing to ever come out of Australia, and I say that comfortably despite not having seen the show in over twenty years.



Also the pat "no other universes" rule is completely blown out of the water by the existence of the Dead Universe, if nothing else.

Ah, but the Dead Universe wasn't a Parallel Universe it was a SHUT THE **** UP AND DON'T ASK THAT SORT OF QUESTION universe.

Knightdramon
2014-11-30, 11:26 AM
Rather late to the party, but I loved this issue.

A bit more..."quiet" than usual, and sadly it picks up neither from the end of 33 or 34, but it's satisfactory either way.

I wonder if we'll see the adventures of future minimus or if that was just a taste of the dystopian future and that's all.

Notice that there's no Prime in the dystopian future, so the line probably ended with Sentinel in that universe. Still unsure what Brainstorm is out to do exactly, as it all appears to be a red herring.

Finally some more Rodimus, that has been missing!

I was falsely under the impression that Elegant chaos was going to be a 4 parter, but it appears to be shadowplay-length. And from the looks of it, much more "interactive" than the previous 2 flashback stories.

Auntie Slag
2014-12-01, 08:19 PM
I'm still rather flabbergasted at the incredible quality of this issue. What makes it even better is the solicit on the back pages for the next issue; featuring Roller slurping a Kremzeek carton. I'm so happy to see the return of this character, as I feel like he could be one of my favourites in MTMTE.

It's probably from so many years of watching cop films where you grow to like both cops but know that one of them is bound to die. Already I feel as if Roller could be as influential a figure to the making of Optimus Prime as Megatron. The other thing is probably 80% of my love for Roller comes from Ratchet's line: "if for no other reason than it was the last time we were all together".

And what an issue the next one will be to round off Christmas 2014. It was around this time a few years ago that Shadowplay held me in the same thrall. Days of Deception feels like Roberts is in total masterclass mode, and I really hope Milne is on board to draw them all!

Terome
2014-12-02, 09:59 AM
And what an issue the next one will be to round off Christmas 2014. It was around this time a few years ago that Shadowplay held me in the same thrall. Days of Deception feels like Roberts is in total masterclass mode, and I really hope Milne is on board to draw them all!

Oh definitely. You could run lectures in serial storytelling just using slides from the recent issues.

I would also like to point out that the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum physics is (appropriately) only one of many, though it is the one that tends to feature the most in science fiction.

The whole idea that quantum physics is based around is the photoelectric effect, which is about why some things are more shiny than others.

Red Dave Prime
2014-12-02, 11:29 AM
I for one wont be too hard on the scientific basis for a plot set within a universe populated with living, transforming robots.

Summerhayes
2014-12-02, 01:44 PM
That was phenomenal. I'm now really angry I'm gonna have to wait so long for answers.

One thing; I don't think Percy said parallel universes don't exist or can't exist, just that they're not a result of time travel. Which is why Brainstorm's device had to temporarily maintain the OLL.

Terome
2014-12-02, 04:41 PM
I for one wont be too hard on the scientific basis for a plot set within a universe populated with living, transforming robots.

:p

It was Dalek I was waggling my finger at, MTMTE can be as wacky as it likes.

Red Dave Prime
2014-12-02, 04:48 PM
:p

It was Dalek I was waggling my finger at, MTMTE can be as wacky as it likes.

Yeah, well just so we're clear *makes "I'm watching you buddy!" Motion *

Unicron
2014-12-02, 05:26 PM
The other thing is probably 80% of my love for Roller comes from Ratchet's line: "if for no other reason than it was the last time we were all together".

This reminds me of something I was thinking at one point: What if the reason Shadowplay was the last time the three of them were together was because Roller gets involved with the LL-crew's time jump and ends up coming back to the present with them.
It would explain why he disappeared, removes the whole "Tarn is Roller" thing, and adds another member to the crew. Could be interesting. Or a horrible mistake.

Terome
2014-12-02, 05:36 PM
Yeah, well just so we're clear *makes "I'm watching you buddy!" Motion *

*loads gun before leaving the car*

Unicron: This reminds me of something I was thinking at one point: What if the reason Shadowplay was the last time the three of them were together was because Roller gets involved with the LL-crew's time jump and ends up coming back to the present with them.
It would explain why he disappeared, removes the whole "Tarn is Roller" thing, and adds another member to the crew. Could be interesting. Or a horrible mistake.

Ooh, I like that idea.

Auntie Slag
2014-12-02, 06:49 PM
I love you Unicron, and I want to have your babies.

Red Dave Prime
2014-12-02, 09:50 PM
I second the liking of Unicrons theory (indeed, any that move away from Tarn is really... dun-dun-dun!) but I am less then inclined for baby making with said Robot Deity.

Terome
2014-12-02, 09:55 PM
Though, oddly, we've seen the fictional Unicron have more babies than any other Transformers character. Cyclonus, Scourge, Hook, Line, Sinker, the Mini-cons...

She's a fertile old cosmo-tick.

Unicron
2014-12-02, 10:53 PM
I appreciate the intent behind the comments, but the baby making comments are a bit weird. Or at least they were about the last thing I was expecting when I saw there were new posts (the last thing would probably have been the Spanish Inquisition).

Anyway, now that we've got time travel as a major plot bit, it seems like a viable fate for Roller. Though anything could have happened to him. The only things we have to go on is no present day appearances (unless he really is what was in Prime's trailer back in the -Ations) and that vague line from Ratchet.
I'm pretty sure he was a throwaway character. A potentially expendable character to add to the drama, since everyone else involved was known to survive the events of Shadowplay.

Summerhayes
2014-12-03, 02:42 PM
Gave 35 another re-read; quality stuff. It also made me go back and flick through the rest of Season 2 and, sure enough, back in issue 30 we have Swerve moaning about one of his en get cannisters going missing and Brainstorm saying he always carries his own drink.

Auntie Slag
2014-12-03, 06:53 PM
I would be very happy for Tarn to not in fact be Roller when there’s the possibility he could be a time traveller thanks to Brainstorm’s machinations (that’s a very wild n’ wooly ‘could’ of course).

Also, at what point does MTMTE and RID tie-in with previous IDW comics? Is it indeed all the same universe, in which case something will occur that puts Roller in the little six-wheeled buggy that I think we last saw in Devastation?

But then Roller is one of the three separate physical units of Prime’s psyche. I wonder if this may suggest a Topspin/Twin Twist style branched spark between Prime and Roller?

That would be interesting, because in LSotW Topspin and Twin Twist mentioned that the pain was becoming more frequent. If they had survived Garrus 9, what would have happened to them? Some sort of necessary joining? Did Rack n’ Ruin experience something similar in the IDW-verse? (according to Marvel they were two warriors injured in battle who had to be joined to save their lives, but that doesn’t mean its the same deal with IDW).

Prime/Roller could be our chance to see what happens to branched sparks that have completed the sequence, or rather what it means. That would be ace because we were robbed of the chance in LSotW which was a sub-plot cut off at the hip, as it were.

Summerhayes
2014-12-04, 12:27 AM
There has been a line in MTMTE about Rack and Ruin's operation, I believe.

As for the IDW continuity, the current comics are entirely a part of it. However, Roberts had out and out said Roller the bot is separate from roller the bit of prime. Named in remembrance? Who knows...

Auntie Slag
2014-12-04, 11:26 PM
Yes, I think it was in Spotlight: Orion Pax. Brainstorm carries his own drink, why was that again? I can understand Swerve watering down the drinks, but is stealing the engex canister pre-empting the watering down?

And where is Rung?

Auntie Slag
2014-12-07, 12:12 AM
Did anyone notice on page 3 or so, there's a scene where Minimus and Rewind are chatting at the base of a big set of stairs. Half-way up the stairs are Ratchet and Pharma chatting!

Unicron
2014-12-07, 12:55 AM
Did anyone notice on page 3 or so, there's a scene where Minimus and Rewind are chatting at the base of a big set of stairs. Half-way up the stairs are Ratchet and Pharma chatting!

Caught that on the preview, thanks to seeing it mentioned elsewhere. I was all "Where the hell did they show up?" and found them shortly thereafter

Auntie Slag
2014-12-07, 08:40 AM
Yes, I guess in the new Brainstorm constructed reality removing Megatron means no DJD and no reason for Pharma to go bad. Although to be more realistic; Pharma possesses a propensity for the psychotic, and it would have to find another trigger.

It was an excellent visual cue to inform the reader there was clearly something screwy going on with what they're reading, if it wasn't to be gotten from all the sticks, reference to the Dark Fall that Chromedome had never heard of in OLL, or Rewind getting startled that his data banks were filling with a history he didn't recognise.

Blackjack
2014-12-07, 11:38 AM
Just read this. Pretty awesome.

Shame I missed the all-important 'present day' caption on my first read-through, but when I thought something was off and went back a couple of pages, it hit me and the issue just got so much better.

This is great.

Brainstorm just effectively wiped out history and replaced everything on Cybertron with, uh, Brainstorm's Reality or whatever, right? Basically only the dudes abroad the Lost Light are protected by it? What if they never manage to reverse Brainstorm's time-jump? What if the MTMTE universe just effectively broke off from the mainstream IDW universe this way? The Lost Light beat up the DJD, the Council of Twelve and all that, but never find a way back to the original IDW universe, therefore preventing disappointingly horrid crossovers with the RID title? Because I'm down for that.

Love the fact that Chromedome and Rewind aren't just getting back together smoothly.

Trailbreaker is truly dead. :(

This issue is awesome. Going off to reread it after I read all your comments in this thread.

Summerhayes
2014-12-07, 08:42 PM
I can understand Swerve watering down the drinks, but is stealing the engex canister pre-empting the watering down?
He poisoned the Engex, that's how he knocked everyone out. He carries his own drink so the poison won't affect him.
Presumably the missing cannister was either stolen, poisoned and put back or stolen because Brainstorm didn't have enough poison for that one.

Auntie Slag
2014-12-07, 10:04 PM
Thanks, I'd forgotten about that, even though I think it was also explained in this issue!

@Blackjack: Love the theory of Brainstorm doing it to prevent crossovers. A truly sublime solution.

Edit I don't know anything about Doctor Who, but on BBC Three tonight was a programme covering all things Whovian, featuring a sequence where The Doctor & The Master were arguing before the Timelords (Boss timelord was Timothy Dalton). The Master was described as the polar opposite to The Doctor and they came across as Megatron & Prime, with The Timelords as the Functionist Council.

Blackjack
2014-12-08, 03:58 AM
Also can I add how happy I am to see Perceptor just be an awesome 'talk a lot of science' guy again? Brainstorm and Nautica basically made him get shafted a lot and his most recent roles involve the sniping instead of the SCIENCE so it's highly appreciated.

Auntie Slag
2014-12-08, 03:27 PM
A guy called Xaaron over at The Allspark had this to say about Brainstorm:

"Did Chromedome and Brainstorm pair-bond back in the days of the New Institute? Did Chromedome's attack of conscience in leaving the Institute also bring him to wipe his relationship with Brainstorm, and the memory of horrible things they did there?

Brainstorm seems to mention some great pain he has learned to live with during that conversation, but it's not clear what".

I'm suddenly intrigued about Brainstorms great pain. And following on from that, it was mentioned in Spotlight: Trailcutter that Chromedome, Brainstorm and Highbrow were collectively known as Headmasters. We've seen almost nothing of Highbrow so far, yet he is a Lost Light crew member, and I'm wondering if he'll feature in the upcoming issues?

EDIT Another one of those things that pops into my head from time to time; in the past Skids had a matrix tattoo on his right cheek (I presume that's what it was). Why has it since gone, and why did Pax say that reminded him of someone? Again, picking up from a comment Jalaguy made at the Allspark; 'when did Skids renounce religion'?

Also, I don't hang out at the Allspark, I just clicked on a link to see what other forums were saying about this particular issue!

EDIT 2 The poster Repugnus made a good point about Brainstorm's true allegiance. When he shot an enraged Magnus with the disaggregator gun, the beam was orange/red, not purple. As a link back to Brainstorm and Nautica's talk about colour coded lasers in the heat of battle back at the beginning of Season 2.

EDIT 3 Is there perhaps a reason why the Functionist council all have similar nondescript, almost Whirl-like faces? Are they a committee of criminals?

Unicron
2014-12-08, 05:14 PM
EDIT Another one of those things that pops into my head from time to time; in the past Skids had a matrix tattoo on his right cheek (I presume that's what it was). Why has it since gone, and why did Pax say that reminded him of someone? Again, picking up from a comment Jalaguy made at the Allspark; 'when did Skids renounce religion'?
The tattoo reminded him of Springarm(?), one of the guys under Pax's command during Chaos Theory.
I'd think Skids lost the mark when he joined the Diplomatic Corps. Spec Ops probably can't have distinguishing marks like that, and an overt religious symbol like that might not be a good thing to display when interacting with alien species (assuming they actually did try to get aliens to side with the Autobots).

Auntie Slag
2014-12-08, 05:27 PM
Megatron is the only one who remembers Rung, from his one altercation with him over 4 million years ago whilst having a drink with Impactor at Maccadam's. Why is Megatron impervious to Rung's seeming attention deflector?

When Rung gets his head blown up, everyone remembers him. Is this because he's incapacitated i.e. because his powers are offline? Or simply because Mr. Nobody is holed up on a ship with 200 other robots, rather than a planet of millions?

I was wondering if anyone acted noticeably different whilst Rung was headless as a result of not being influenced by him?

Also whether Rung's ability could be considered a different form of Shadowplay, developed in Rung's own style and in a way to largely serve him, rather than screw people's minds over.

Or has Rung been done over by the Council/Senate? In the Role Call pages of the early issues I'm sure his little panel bore the tag line 'Wants to be remembered'. He knows about Shadowplay, yet seemingly no-one ever went after him? Despite serving as a willing signatory to Senator Shockwaves amendment to effectively halt its unfettered use. If you were on the Council or Senate, you'd want to remove Rung sharpish.

Does Megatron remember him because Rung lets him remember? And if so, for what purpose? Is there a unique aspect to Megatron's psyche that Rung's ability cannot overcome?

Auntie Slag
2014-12-08, 07:44 PM
This blew my tiny mind for a bit. Philip Ayres over at Transmasters UK made the following comment about ALL Rewind;

"Having Rewind back opens up an opportunity for further heartbreak at a later stage when OUR Rewind turns out to have survived..."

With everything else going on I'd forgotten about that possibility. Can you imagine what an absolute mind**** that's going to be for Chromedome and ALL Rewind?

Its got to happen, its just too good... because OLL Rewind may know Chromedome's dirtiest secrets thanks to Overlord!

One other thing that I didn’t pay attention to because it was a sick scene (but was raised by the bods at Transmasters and made me think), in Issue 32, page 13, panel 3 we see Ratchet, Drift and Hound all dead in the closet. Hound appears to have both of Drift’s shorter knives embedded in his torso, and has been scalped (not something I noticed happened to any other character, so I’m wondering if there’s any significance to that).

Drift’s long sword has been impaled in his own head and his left arm is placed around Hound, in a mockingly friendly way, with the hand resting on the hilt of the short sword. I guess my point is that they’re all seated in what would otherwise be a relaxed, pally way. So what were the DJD trying to say with this diorama?

I also didn’t notice that drift has two fist imprints on his chest beneath the Aubobot insignia, and Ratchet has his hands out like he’s waiting to receive something.

Will this all be revealed in a really gross playback from ALL Rewind? All three do look like they were positioned specifically.

Skyquake87
2014-12-08, 11:35 PM
I have read this today...

...time travel and everything going a bit wibbly! awesome.

love reading this thread, but have nothing clever or fanciful to say :)

Auntie Slag
2014-12-09, 11:14 AM
If the two Rewind's should meet, then the ALL version will have to disappear as the Universe reasserts itself. However, what secrets and stories with he and Chromedome exclusively share by that point? He would lose new super-close Rewind, to be replaced with OLL super-pissed Rewind!

Imagine returning to find your other half had effectively carried on with a clone of yourself!

Edit Just found Warcry's explanation of Rewind & Overlord in the slow cell (taken from the Season 1 roundup thread):

"A lot of people have said that, but they're reading things backwards. Time ran slower inside the cell than outside. If the slow-down was active, it would have seemed like less than a second for Rewind and Overlord between the door closing and them getting blown up.

Otherwise what good would a slow cell be? Your prisoners would escape and kill you before you even realized they were thinking about it".

I need to remember this. There wouldn't have been enough time for Rewind to learn anything, and Overlord would have only had enough time to flatten him in a Pipes-style.

Death's Head
2014-12-09, 12:40 PM
EDIT 3 Is there perhaps a reason why the Functionist council all have similar nondescript, almost Whirl-like faces? Are they a committee of criminals?

I reckon remote-controlled bodies of some sort. Why? I have no idea...