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zigzagger
2015-02-03, 03:24 PM
Transformer: More than Meets the Eye #37 preview is up @ Comics Continuum (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1502/03/idwfirsts.htm).

It's out tomorrow, folks!

Unicron
2015-02-03, 06:03 PM
Not sure if it's just me, but when I brought up those preview pages, my anti-virus popped a bunch of alerts telling me it caught some stuff. May want to try finding them elsewhere

Denyer
2015-02-03, 07:16 PM
Are you running an ad-blocker?

http://i.imgur.com/q4boW2F.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mOqZEjF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tk4BF6y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SiyUd0R.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OELIFX2.jpg

Unicron
2015-02-03, 08:35 PM
Not presently, no. Recently did a fresh install of Windows, there's a bunch of little things here and there I'd forgotten about and haven't gotten to

Knightdramon
2015-02-03, 08:53 PM
I think there's an error---the book acknowledges MTMTE 9 and Ongoing...20 on the inside cover, but 20 is the space opera which has absolutely NOTHING to do with this, but the scenes from 21 [Megatron backstory] are on the exact same time as this one.

I have a theory...Rung is "forgotten" in the past when these guys make their final jump.

The next page [coupled with the front cover] probably covers the bar fight from 21, with Rung breaking cover---ie the Rung tossed on the window at Impactor/Megatron is our Rung. Then the opening of Shadowplay issue 1, with a "past" Rung assembling a Lost Light spaceship model is our Rung, possibly left back, trying to reminisce his memories, and ends up being stuck on a loop.

Remain in Light opening also makes sense, when Rung recognized the opening portal as something similar---he is actually re-living his story in a loop.

Somehow, information creep gets to him and he forgets what he is himself, and maybe an attention deflector or something is attached on him, which explains why half the bots forget who he is [even his patient, Red Alert] most of the times.

The earliest chronological appearance of Rung [pre Ongoing 21, ie our next page] is the Messatine mines on issue 34, where he interferes on Froid's and Trepan's stuff. What if he's very aware of what was going to happen to Megatron, and he used Shockwave's new laws as a front?

Crazy theory, but even Red Alert's backstory with Rung places him after Shadowplay.

It all fits, I tell you. It all fits.

You heard it here first. And if somebody comes out in the next 4 minutes and says that he had an earlier [chronological] appearance that ruins my theory, oh well.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-03, 09:02 PM
About time! That's over a month that goalpost shifting, genre redefining, stupidly talented bastard's had me waiting. It had better come with two additional free issues, a send-away plush MTMTE character of your choice and free tea bags taped to the cover.

And a CD containing the two or three tracks that define every issue, with a painfully delicate & detailed explanation for each one that would make Thatcher cry.

I didn't carve '4 REAL' (with Rodimus Star) into my arm for nothing, J.

MikeB
2015-02-03, 10:22 PM
appearance that ruins my theory, oh well.

In issue 1 (rereading, not some weird perfect recall thing) tailgate is thinking about Rungian self analysis 6 million years ago, but there's no reason why rung can't jump even further into the past before this arc is done, is there?

I like the theory, though I'll miss rung if it turns out to be true...

Knightdramon
2015-02-03, 10:47 PM
Hmmm, I knew something was off.

The series has another error in the early issues though; Magnus refers to amendments on the Autobot code, happening after Tailgate's time, but the Autobot code should have been written after Sentinel adopted the name and Zeta formed a proper faction.

Meh. :p

Red Dave Prime
2015-02-04, 11:32 AM
So.....



Need to re-read again but going by this issue, Roberts has set things up really well. Fair play that we are getting pay-offs so far down the line.

And...

Many of us were correct in thinking it was Megs Brainstorm was going for and not Pax. But still, the whole reveal to this is done really well.

zigzagger
2015-02-04, 03:54 PM
As always, doing this on the fly. Just some super quick thoughts.

---

Figured it'd be Megatron. In 'season 2', it's always about Megatron!

By the time Roberts is done with him, we're going to know just about everything there is know about Megatron, huh? Think this is the first time we've seen the creation of, well, anyone in the IDWverse.

Hope to get more details next issue regarding that. And assuming Megatron was indeed forged, this may go some way to explaining (or rather, showing) the process.

....

Annnnd that's all the time I got. Will be back later.

Death's Head
2015-02-04, 05:03 PM
In that last page he looks more like he's being Constructed Cold...

inflatable dalek
2015-02-04, 08:47 PM
He also has a blue spark rather than the point 1 percenter green one he should have. Brainstorm on the other hand, has a green spark somewhere stashed around his person...




A fantastic issue. I'm a sucker for when an ongoing series does a Back to the Future 2 style "Mucking about in old stories" style time travel adventure and this pulled it off perfectly. I love the idea that Rung hadn't actually yet been as important as Rewind and the series thinks he is, him being everywhere that matters in the past is just down to his wacky time travel highjinks.

And Knightdramon was so nearly right in his theory! Excellent weaving in and out of the old art as well, especially as- whilst Rung in Shadowplay might have always been intended to be a future version- there wouldn't have been any thought of this when Chaos Theory was done (with the comic divided up into seasons, Chaoes Theory really is, using similar TV terms, a back door pilot).

I think those in the "Brainstorm isn't a Decepticon" camp are pretty much vindicated here. He may be up to no good, but whatever his plan his actions are just far to benign for a DJD mole. He could have killed past Rung. He could have blown up Maccadam's. Effectively his main plot this issue is to stop Megatron becoming Megatron- not kill him- by preventing a bar room brawl.

On the other hand, I'm now more convinced that ever the theory I suggested a few months ago about Rewind is true and it was him that betrayed everyone on the ALL. I think the DJD have Dominus Ambus and have been putting Vesper Lynd style coercion upon him to make him pass on information, probably for some time. The slaughter of his old crew wasn't what he had wanted, hence him being so keen to rescue Dominus in the past and prevent everything.

Terome
2015-02-05, 12:56 PM
Yes, dug this. Took me another read to quite twig what was going on with Past Rung and Brainstorm and infer what was going on with the Dominus Ambus talk. Is the 'Functionist' timeline the one where Rewind meddled? We're getting all these teases to the start of the war - Terminus' instructions, Megatron getting arrested, Whirl's involvement - what if Dominus Ambus was the ultimate cause of the war and Megatron's ascension?

On Future Rung - it does make especial sense that Brainstorm would spot him because he would have known about his teetotal habits. Speaking of those, we now know why teetotal Rung was in Maccadam's in the first place.

Sweet catch on the blue spark detail. We also get to see what Whirl's crazy gun does and it seems to detonate sparks quite handily.

I'm a sucker for when an ongoing series does a Back to the Future 2 style "Mucking about in old stories" style time travel adventure and this pulled it off perfectly.

The bit where Megatron cowers under the bar is so Marty Junior.

But hey, here's something I didn't like - the pages from older issues. Seemed a lot clumsier than I'd give this series credit for. A big long chat about Proteus' Promise had nothing to do with this story. The Impactor pages were more seamless but, wow, Roberts has really improved at dialogue since Chaos Theory, hasn't he? 'Five quarts of energon in the wind' makes me wince.

The bar brawl that follows is pretty awesome though. On improvement - how great is Milne at crowded, chaotic scenes now?

Not sure I quite follow the Whirl backstory. The Functionists sent the Heavies to break his stuff and then, later, had the Senate take his face? Why is that a big revelation?

Oh yeah! Amidst it all - Cyclonus' apology. The shoe finally dropped. I've been tense about that for years. And is Tailgate inside Cyclonus while he's protesting against Brainstorm's execution? Love how willing Rodimus is to kill him, by the way. He doesn't have a high opinion of traitors.

Anyone think all this was just a way for Brainstorm to impress Perceptor? That would be a more powerful motivator for him than caring whether the war happened or not.

Terome
2015-02-05, 08:33 PM
Stray thought - will Rung's tendency to go unnoticed mean that Past Rung and Future Rung will swap places before the LL crew heads for the present?

inflatable dalek
2015-02-05, 08:40 PM
Present Rung becomes Tarn!

You know, considering Rewind has access to all this CCTV fotage and can accurately place what everyone was up to in the past, it's odd he's never asked Rung about the day he was thrown into Megatron considering that's quite an important event.

Or asked any of the others how they managed to both be in the bar that day and in other places. Especially as this now seems to be a predestination paradox.

Terome
2015-02-05, 10:16 PM
Well, of course if he had those particular angles then we wouldn't be in this situation... Though if he'd asked Rung he would have just gone the way it went when Megatron asked him.

I've been thinking of Rewind's database. It does present a storytelling problem for exactly reasons like you mention and I reckon its corruption won't just be so that Brainstorm can be hooked up to it like they did to dissuade Tailgate. Its loss may be permanent so that the upcoming Dominus arc won't have to answer questions like, 'Why doesn't Rewind just look this/that/the other up.'

Also, I imagine Megatron would get a real kick out of an encyclopedic knowledge of what would have happened had he not killed everyone. Rewind might end up writing Megatron's next book rather that Optimus' biography. Seeing as how we're all about writing this season it would suit for Megatron to take up the pen again.

Hey, here's something else I liked - even though the laws of the day in no way apply to the Lost Light crew, and that he's done far worse things in his time, Chromedome still has the fear of getting a fine for being in a class-inappropriate place. That is the most Catholic thing in the world.

inflatable dalek
2015-02-05, 10:23 PM
Well, of course if he had those particular angles then we wouldn't be in this situation... Though if he'd asked Rung he would have just gone the way it went when Megatron asked him.

Another reason for the corruption of it is likely that as Rung's database has been replaced by the one from the new timeline it neatly deals with them not just asking him to check up on where Brainstorm might be. Smart move by Mr. Roberts there! I'm just more curious as to why this has never come up before (like when, for example, Rung interviewed Impactor when doing his Weckers psychological profile). It seems Megatron was the first person ever to mention it to him as Rung seemed to find it a bit baffling.

Terome
2015-02-05, 10:34 PM
Oh yes, good reasoning. It's easy to imagine that Impactor would have some complicated emotions about Megatron and might not have been interested in that line of inquiry.

Hmm... I just realised that when Roberts does go down that 'Impactor's back' road that the presence of Megatron would make it a very different story from whatever fragments he and Roche had at the end of Wreckers. Personally, I hate 'big returns' and think Impactor should stay away and play among the stars with Pharma, Tyrest, Overlord, et al.

That would be nice, wouldn't it? If they were all just having a fantastic time playing stickball or something. Not a care in the world.

Apart from Impactor, when would anyone bring up that day in Macaddams to Rung? Everybody else in the room likely perished in the war. Nightbeat might ask impertinent questions, since something about that guy with his model ship has been nagging at him for ages.

zigzagger
2015-02-06, 03:20 PM
Got a moment to add a few more thoughts.

Yeah, this storyline is just plain fun. Has all the adventure, and world-building, and... fun I've come to expect from the title.

Nice touch with the reprinted pages from Chaos Theory. As well as with the new, previously off-panel bits that had been added. Felt like genuine improvements. If Elegant Chaos is intended to be the conclusion to Roberts' ongoing flashback-trilogy-thingy, it felt appropriate we come back to where it all started, you know. Brings us full circle.

Serves as a nice refresher for those who missed Chaos Theory, too.

Do agree with Terome's quibble with the Shadowplay pages, though. Not nearly as seamless, their inclusion.

While nothing major, that was some nice character development for Cyclonus. He's just a big ol' sentimentalist. And his late apology to Tailgate had me grinning like a fool. Certainly not the star of the show, but Cykes still had some standout moments for me.

Chromedome and ALL Rewind's relationship gets more and more uncomfortable (for me) as the story goes along. And OLL Rewind never seemed this preoccupied with finding Dominus Ambus. At least from what we were able to tell.


I'm now more convinced that ever the theory I suggested a few months ago about Rewind is true and it was him that betrayed everyone on the ALL....

I'm convinced too. Still seems suspect to me that Magnus's memories have not melded with the Functionalist reality like Rewind's data has.


On improvement - how great is Milne at crowded, chaotic scenes now?

I know, right? He's come a long way since Megatron Origin (seriously, check out M:O; it's a good point of reference). Has a much keener understanding of space and what have you.

Though to give credit, Lafuente's coloring does compliment Milne's pencils. Quite liking her work, actually. Very vibrant with good attention to detail... and this is Milne we're talking about, so there's a lot of freakin' detail.

At this point, I'm going to assume she's replaced Burcham, yes?

Not sure I quite follow the Whirl backstory. The Functionists sent the Heavies to break his stuff and then, later, had the Senate take his face? Why is that a big revelation?Glad I wasn't the only. Got a big fat "Well, duh" from me.

inflatable dalek
2015-02-06, 03:29 PM
Chromedome and ALL Rewind's relationship gets more and more uncomfortable (for me) as the story goes along. And OLL Rewind never seemed this preoccupied with finding Dominus Ambus. At least from what we were able to tell.

I'm trying to think, did we ever hear OLL Rewind mention Dominus directly in the present, or have we only ever heard about him from Chromedome up till now?

Something is definitely going on there.




At this point, I'm going to assume she's replaced Burcham, yes?

Yeah, it's a permanent gig. I didn't attend it, but based on what I was told by someone who did, it seems Milne gave the impression during his art class at the last AA that he and Burcham had a fractious working relationship. That's not to suggest any behind the scenes issues as such-based on the same talk Milne and Roberts go at it tooth and claw over the smallest details as well because both care a lot- but Burcham may have fancied something a bit more relaxing as a result.

Terome
2015-02-06, 05:46 PM
Court intrigue!

I do miss Burcham - his muted palette and paper textures were a welcome addition to post-Dreamwave Transformers. Joanna's colours have grown on me but they aren't arty enough for my dumb tastes.

So I think with the Senate / Functionist thing, there's a deliberate effort being made to make it seem as though they act separately when, in actuality, the Senate or factions of it were under the control of the Functionists, even when their power was publicly ebbing.

And I am guessing that Whirl will be put in a position where he will have to spare Megatron or spare the Functionists and he'll be all, no way!

I'm convinced too. Still seems suspect to me that Magnus's memories have not melded with the Functionalist reality like Rewind's data has.


But isn't that exactly what we see when we get to 'subject not recognised?'

I'm trying to think, did we ever hear OLL Rewind mention Dominus directly in the present, or have we only ever heard about him from Chromedome up till now?

Something is definitely going on there.

Hmm... who narrated that chunk of biography we had on DA? Where we saw him 'exchanging fuel' with Rewind and such?

Unicron
2015-02-06, 07:04 PM
Hmm... who narrated that chunk of biography we had on DA? Where we saw him 'exchanging fuel' with Rewind and such?

That was Domey, explaining who Dominus was to Tailgate

zigzagger
2015-02-06, 09:11 PM
But isn't that exactly what we see when we get to 'subject not recognised?'



Mmm, possibly. Though I do wonder, is that a result of the Functionalist timeline converging with the other, or was that the result of Brainstorm revising his plan?

I kinda gathered he hadn't initially intended to go that far back in time.

Terome
2015-02-06, 10:24 PM
Mmm, possibly. Though I do wonder, is that a result of the Functionalist timeline converging with the other, or was that the result of Brainstorm revising his plan?

I kinda gathered he hadn't initially intended to go that far back in time.


Could definitely be a red herring. I'm assuming at this point that the Functionalist timeline is one where Megatron never arose / the war never happened. It appears to be what we're supposed to think but it could be a feint... the workings of the timelines converging are very vague right now.

That was Domey, explaining who Dominus was to Tailgate

Ah, cheers. Guess Dalek is right - OLL Rewind never brought him up.

Red Dave Prime
2015-02-07, 12:02 AM
So regarding rewind - are we thinking that at some point since coming on board OLL Domey wiped OLL Rewind but this didnt happen (for whatever reason) between ALL Domey & Rewind? There is that off-hand remark in issue 12 about rewind being allergic to ultra violet light and of course thats how you spot whether someone has had been messed with. Wonder what the reasons were - is it possible that...

Ok, on OLL, the snuff discs are found and rodimus gives out to rewind. Realising that Rewind is still obsessed with Dominus, Chrome dome does his needle trick. In the aftermath of OLL Rewinds death, he feels guilt with this which explains some of his comments to rewind in issue 37.

However back on board the ALL this never happens (Rodimus being dead and all) so Chromedome never learns of the discs. Its possible he never even learns of Dominus (again, going by the conversation in issue 37) Rewind discovers that dominus is on the discs in some form and that its linked to the DJD which in turn leads to Rewind contacting the DJD leading to the massacre. His hope is to use the time machine to go back before the DJD did what they did.

Maybe.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-07, 07:13 PM
Why is Brainstorm trying to kill the leader of a side that's already lost the war?

inflatable dalek
2015-02-07, 07:41 PM
Well, assuming that is what he's doing (Roberts is a wiley fox)... Killing Megatron and preventing the war from ever happening could save quintillions (totally a real word) of lives.

Plus, actually pulling a gun out seems to be a last resort. The previous plan was just to knock out Past Rung and prevent the chain of events that led to Megatron being horse whipped by Whirl and really set him off.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-08, 12:00 AM
I don’t think Brainstorm could care less about saving billions or ‘quintillions’ of lives. A mad scientist like him prospers best in wartime, being given licence to create all manner of nasty and strange devices. There’s a phrase about war often creating the best situation for innovation and advancement, so if anything, the war coming to an end is the end of a purposeful life for him.

Some of his actions suggest he cares about no-one, apart from a little sentimentality towards Chromedome losing another Conjunx Endura, and the desire to be recognised above Perceptor… and these two are alive and well. There’s been no backstory yet to display he’s lost anyone or anything important through the war.

Interestingly the gun he’s about to shoot Megatron with has a bit of resemblance to a Walther P-38. I’d bet the cover price of a TF UK comic from 1987 that its not a gun necessarily used for killing. Maybe he’s going back to enhance Megatron in some way?

Skyquake87
2015-02-08, 08:58 AM
I wondered that - he's carrying around that 1%er spark.

...I was about to say there's 'more than meets the eye' without any trace of irony, but stopped myself. Phew. Think I got away with that one...

Elsewhere, I really liked the bar scene with Tailgate going about how he's potential Wreckers material and then asking where his curly straw is. Adorable. Loved the gags about his face too.

And look what I handsome chap Whirl was before the Senate/ Functionists got ahold of him.

...just on the colours, I really like Joanna's brighter and bolder hues. They really help sell the splendor of pre-war Cybertron in a way I don't think Burcham's more washed out muted tones would have done. Does mean the reprinted Chaos Theory pages stick out though and are quite obviously a reprint.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-08, 09:53 AM
On another note, why did Cyclonus kick Tailgate in the stomach again? Apart from it being a reference to one of the early issues, I didn't get it!

Unicron
2015-02-08, 11:22 AM
On another note, why did Cyclonus kick Tailgate in the stomach again? Apart from it being a reference to one of the early issues, I didn't get it!

Pretty sure that's meant to be a flashback

Auntie Slag
2015-02-08, 12:56 PM
But I don't see why this flashback is relevant now. Apologies if I'm being dim!

Denyer
2015-02-08, 02:03 PM
Cyc's just having a moment of reflection.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-08, 09:36 PM
Weird, I still don't get it. Cyclonus isn't a Decepticon, and Tailgate has long since resolved his Autobot/Decepticon allegiances, and now they're best buddies. So the beating, to my mind, seems totally unnecessary when both characters have since moved on?

Denyer
2015-02-08, 10:12 PM
It isn't mind-blowing to Tailgate, who spent millions of years deactivated. Cyclonus spent it in the company of genocidal maniacs, some of whom were complicit in the ruining of Cybertron... it turned him into someone he didn't like much, he's overcome with regret in general, etc.

It may also indicate that that's what Tailgate thinks about in connection to the apology, rather than Cyc.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-08, 10:32 PM
Yeah I guess, but Cyclonus is also a person of honour like a Samurai. I don't see him randomly beating anyone else up, or punching the wall because of his traumatic time past dealings with a bunch of murderers. I consider him far more level headed than Rodimus, Trailcutter and the others. It seems such a weird, unstructured thing. And if he's honourable and got some anger issues, it would behoove him go and have a chat with Rung rather than occasionally give Tailgate a swift kick in the balls every time his thoughts get dark.

I guess that's my point; I'd expect someone like him to find a solution rather than simply hurt his friend and apologise, that would be in character. Whirl I could easily see beating someone up and semi-apologising, for instance... but Cyclonus? It breaks him a bit for me.

We can drop this if you like, there's something I'm not getting. Maybe its because I've been able to understand everyone's actions up to this point... Whirl, in his own batty way, makes sense.

Denyer
2015-02-08, 10:49 PM
Hang on... are you reading that panel with the kicking as happening at the same time as what's on the rest of the page?

Flashback. The abusive rage happened a few volumes ago.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-08, 10:55 PM
Really? Unicron mentioned that a few posts ago but I didn't really understand. Does it say somewhere on the page that its a past event? I'm getting the impression this was obvious to everyone but me!

Denyer
2015-02-08, 11:23 PM
Previously there's been more emphasis on using muted colours for flashbacks, but the visual shorthand's the same as used later in this issue with Whirl -- rounded corners.

A little box saying 'Issue #4' might have helped, though.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-08, 11:41 PM
I totally didn't get that!

Otherwise (and entirely apart from this oddity), I found the first read through quite hard going, and the second almost sublime. I put a lot of it to the fact that, for the first time the art has felt properly clogged up.

People have been saying how great LaFuente's colouring is, but it got far too confusing this issue. The panels with Whirl going mental on The Heavies was just a mess. Trying to make out the detail was hard work, and the whole thing was too dark for its own good. I miss Burcham's colours. I felt he complemented Milne's complex drawings perfectly. It didn't matter how detailed a panel because, I could always make out every bit just fine.

I wonder if the problem with this issue was that someone had dialled down the contrast too much on some pages?

And poor old Springarm. I always imagined he & Wheelarch were done with a sword, but to have his head torn off, in panel. I know its been done before with Cyclonus back in the original Marvel UK run, but what persists with me is the scene from Megatron: Origin where Megs does the same to Bumper. That felt proper grisly and we only heard it happen. This has some of that feel. Ugh!

Warcry
2015-02-09, 06:28 PM
I loved the whistlestop tour through different formative points in Megatron's personal timeline. It does seem to look like everything is coming together in the form of a predestination paradox in which Brainstorm's pilfered green spark winds up inside Megatron's (seemingly constructed cold) body, though. Hopefully if that's where it's going Roberts will throw in another twist or two along the way.

Count me among those who didn't "get" Whirl's shock that the Functionists were behind both his shop being shut down and his later Empurata. I guess it's just because Roberts hasn't done much to actually show us what the Functionists and Senate have authority over. Both just sort of blend together into a vague evil government, so for it to turn out that a different organ of that government was responsible for something doesn't seem like that big of a shock to me. Does it really matter which functionary signed the orders to ruin your life?

Whirl and co. talking about it openly in front of the two Heavies is almost certainly the "tip off" that led them to take down Shockwave about a year later at the end of Shadowplay, though.

Overall, enjoyed this quite a bit and I'm looking forward to the conclusion.

So regarding rewind - are we thinking that at some point since coming on board OLL Domey wiped OLL Rewind but this didnt happen (for whatever reason) between ALL Domey & Rewind? There is that off-hand remark in issue 12 about rewind being allergic to ultra violet light and of course thats how you spot whether someone has had been messed with. Wonder what the reasons were - is it possible that...
I suspect something similar, though I wonder if the reasons are staring us right in the face. What if they've already found Dominus and know exactly what happened to him, but it's something so horrible that Rewind needed to forget it? If he was killed horribly/became Tarn/tried to kill Rewind/any of a million other awful things, I could see Rewind deciding that not knowing was better.

I could also see Chromedome deciding that for him. :(

That would make Chromedome's question sound less like a jealous lover and more like "did the other me ever tell you what I did?"

Red Dave Prime
2015-02-09, 08:32 PM
What if they've already found Dominus and know exactly what happened to him, but it's something so horrible that Rewind needed to forget it? If he was killed horribly/became Tarn/tried to kill Rewind/any of a million other awful things, I could see Rewind deciding that not knowing was better.

I could also see Chromedome deciding that for him. :(

That would make Chromedome's question sound less like a jealous lover and more like "did the other me ever tell you what I did?"

Oh I likes that angle. Maybe Dominus sided with the decepticons initially (it would fit with his form against authority) but when he tried to leave the more violent fringe (DJD) got to him.

Actually, Dominus has a similar head to Roller which is similar to... DUN DUN DUNNNNNN!!!

inflatable dalek
2015-02-09, 09:01 PM
I don’t think Brainstorm could care less about saving billions or ‘quintillions’ of lives. A mad scientist like him prospers best in wartime, being given licence to create all manner of nasty and strange devices. There’s a phrase about war often creating the best situation for innovation and advancement, so if anything, the war coming to an end is the end of a purposeful life for him.

Some of his actions suggest he cares about no-one, apart from a little sentimentality towards Chromedome losing another Conjunx Endura, and the desire to be recognised above Perceptor… and these two are alive and well. There’s been no backstory yet to display he’s lost anyone or anything important through the war.

Interestingly the gun he’s about to shoot Megatron with has a bit of resemblance to a Walther P-38. I’d bet the cover price of a TF UK comic from 1987 that its not a gun necessarily used for killing. Maybe he’s going back to enhance Megatron in some way?

Well, whether he's an Autobot or a Decepticon he's spent several million years on at least one side fighting to end the war, so he's got some investment there, especially if he's a Con (or something else we haven't thought of) as being a dedicated double agent is above and beyond the call of simple science.

I'm going to guess that whatever he's pointing at Megatron isn't an actual gun as such.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-09, 09:05 PM
That would make Chromedome's question sound less like a jealous lover and more like "did the other me ever tell you what I did?"

Ooh, that is chilling! I could well imagine that's exactly what Chromedome did. Tearing apart Rewind's previous Conjunx Endura and then filling the void left by him. What could possibly destroy Rewind more?

On another note, I was wondering if one of the two police guys seen exiting Roller to deal with the commotion at Maccadams is Valve? Valve being the brother of Springarm and Wheelarch, Valve also being the first leader of The Wreckers (if I remember that correctly), and the one The Wreckers don't talk about. It might make a nice symmetry of sorts; knowing another Wrecker leader is actually in the bar and has caused a great deal of the ruckus.

I was almost totally underwhelmed by Whirl's real face. I'm so glad he is who he is now, although he's probably about to be (again) the reason for the war. I also wondered whether the robot he kills in this issue could somehow become Killmaster, again because on so many other TF sites its becoming a trope that an unnamed Roberts character is likely to turn into someone significant. But I also like it because Whirl would be his killer twice, and his creator once.

inflatable dalek
2015-02-09, 09:09 PM
I think Roberts revealed the name of the killed guy on Twitter is response to Mr. McFeely asking, so it's probably on the wiki now (the two enforcers have only ever been Enforcer 1 and Enforcer 2 though).

Auntie Slag
2015-02-09, 09:13 PM
Well, whether he's an Autobot or a Decepticon he's spent several million years on at least one side fighting to end the war.

Just my feeling, but I don't think he's been doing any of this because it helps end a war. Like I don't think it bothers him whether he's an Autobot or a Decepticon, particularly. He just wants to make stuff and be revered, and joining either team would give him access to lots of confiscated goodies and dodgy tech.

It makes me wonder that at the end of all this Megatron will take stock and realise the Autobots are more of a mess than the Decepticons, and that he was right all along... Probably as he's making good on his threat to Prime from the beginning of Chaos Theory and crushing some poor Autobot's skull. Three guesses who that might be!

Knightdramon
2015-02-10, 07:36 PM
I also wondered whether the robot he kills in this issue could somehow become Killmaster, again because on so many other TF sites its becoming a trope that an unnamed Roberts character is likely to turn into someone significant. But I also like it because Whirl would be his killer twice, and his creator once.

I'm certain that bot is the current Kaon. The experimental weapon mutates his spark [shot at the same spot Kaon has got that void thing], fries his eyes [Kaon has no visible eyes], he has similar colours and build, appears on a thunderstorm...visual clues all over.

I'm starting to think that maybe Roberts is seeding clues all over [first Roller, now him] about the DJD and how the LL inadvertently created them all in that time period. Maybe we've seen the other 3 but don't know it, maybe we'll see them [even passing by] in the next issue?

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-02-10, 08:44 PM
Oooh, good shout. Comparing the two, I think you may be right. So, Whirl is responsible not only for the whole war, but also the death of Trailbreaker. That guy really should be put into stasis for the good of the universe. ;)

Auntie Slag
2015-02-10, 09:06 PM
With all this being the case, how do you know whether you're breaking the chain of events or simply following it? Is the Universe re-writing itself, or is something else happening? Maybe there is no paradox.

inflatable dalek
2015-02-10, 09:06 PM
I will punch a midget if that happens. The only thing less interesting than "Roller is Tarn" is "This guy you know even less well than Roller is the member of the DJD you give a toss about even less than Tarn".

I just can't believe Roberts is so desperate for ideas now he's just going to redo the "Senator is Shockwave!" thing five times over.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-10, 09:45 PM
I think its good, and quite set apart from Shockwave's predicament: A nutty asshole from the future blasts you to kingdom come with an experimental gun and inadvertantly creates an abomination.

I still like the idea of Roller being Tarn, as long as the reasons are solid. I think Tarn may be a combination of personalities in another rather twisted Institute experiment. It likely won't be anything like as simple, Roberts has probably thought up something fairly mind-meddling and gruesome.

Knightdramon
2015-02-10, 10:22 PM
"Less interesting than Roller is Tarn?" ch ch ch ch :lol:

I like the idea that the DJD are a bunch of nobodies and misfits cobbled together under a former Autobot macho.

And to be fair, we do know Roller a bit more than Tarn. For all their awesomeness and popularity, the DJD were basically sidelined in their own two parter earlier on, and their other appearances are only happening now, 2 years later.

The more actual proper books I read [as in, they only have one picture on the cover, the rest is all text and no merchandise on the side to sell :lol: ] the more I find that James Roberts is unlike other comic book writers---he's more of a book writer.

His storytelling is similar at points to Philip K Dick and J RR Martin---sure you've got your A names running around doing the big events, but the main story is told through C and D tiers living through these events or their repercussions, as well as gradual world building---you get one part of a story here by character X, then you get a further or opposing part of that story by character Y a couple of issues down the road.

That is why I believe the Roller = Tarn idea works and has been going on, at least in JR's head, since early on. And seeds have been planted all throughout the series.

First off, similarities in form--namely the head. This was apparent mid-Shadowplay where we got our first proper view of Roller.

Then, an extra connection. I've said it before and will say it again, Skids is connected to the DJD in some way, having the same piece of music stuck in his head that Tarn plays.

Then the various name drops of Roller among heavy tiers and special bots---why name drop him all of a sudden next to Grimlock if he was gone so long ago?

Then a small parallel during Remain in Light---Tarn more or less paraphrasing Optimus in his concern for Kaon.

The recent issue with Roller up and center also showcase more things, even if minor---he squishes the head of a redshirt the same way as Tarn did Swerve [visual parallel], transforms into the middle of a battle for no real reason other to be a bully and transform, we get the hint that the booster he uses could cause spark failure [alluring to a sense of theatrinism for his singing---what if he actually injects the bots while pretending to lower his voice?], his own low self esteem for not being anything more than a bruiser [hence the theater of special skill of voice---and he does say to Black Shadow "they say this, they say that"], his introduction to Megatron's work, his facial disfigurement and accidental abandonment...

I mean, come on, this was planned for quite some time. Just because some folk put 1+1 together by visual similarities quite some time ago does not mean it loses much impact?

As for Kaon, I'm up for that theory---a random nobody given powers accidentally, with side effects. Do note that Kaon is constructed cold BUT has special powers--electricity harvesting etc. That should, theoretically, not be possible, as all outliers are point one percenters.

Let's see if we get the other 3 thrown to us on next issue, or if hints are already dropped for them and we missed them [might be more to Terminus than more than meets the eye? some random dudes we did not notice, or will be featured next time?]

:wave:

Skyquake87
2015-02-10, 10:27 PM
I'd quite like it if the DJD were just left for folk to speculate. I think another 'ah-ha! it was such and such all along' runs the risk of being repetitious and derivative of the Shockwave reveal, but also a bit... Scooby Doo with the monster unmasked at the end and its the flipping janitor.

Auntie Slag
2015-02-10, 10:51 PM
Following on from what Knightdramon said, I wonder if Skids was actually in the DJD for a time? He has a large expanse of his past missing from his mind. I'd always thought that was a result of Institute machinations.

What if the institute twisted him, following on from that he becomes part of the DJD, and it takes the likes of Glitch, Windcharger and Pax to retrieve him somehow, which may explain why Glitch isn't around anymore (either a casualty or another DJD member), and why Windcharger isn't a flat-out superhero in the IDW verse... perhaps he had his powers curtailed in some way. Whatever the case, Skids has done nasty things that makes even Chromedome's stomach turn.

And Chromedome's as sick as they come!

Warcry
2015-02-10, 10:58 PM
I will punch a midget if that happens. The only thing less interesting than "Roller is Tarn" is "This guy you know even less well than Roller is the member of the DJD you give a toss about even less than Tarn".

I just can't believe Roberts is so desperate for ideas now he's just going to redo the "Senator is Shockwave!" thing five times over.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. If he goes back to the "Character X was secretly Character Y all along!" well that many times (with progressively less-interesting characters), it would be a real disappointment for me.

Besides, the "Roller is Tarn!" thing never felt right to me anyway. I can understand Optimus naming his auxiliary component after an old friend who'd died, but not after someone who'd become one of the Decepticons' most loathsome war criminals. That would be like Winston Churchill unironically naming pets after Goebbels or Himmler.

For all their awesomeness
[Citation needed]

:glance:

Red Dave Prime
2015-02-11, 01:15 AM
Its an interesting idea that this little jaunt could be the creation of the DJD. Suppose that the real reason for Brainstorm going back in time was to stop the creation of the DJD because he saw how potentially lethal they could be if they encountered the lost light. Maybe his theory is that he goes back and tries to stop megatron from forming the decepticons by way of never releasing his dogma (so even if he musters an army, its not backed by the material that fuels the DJD). However he unwittingly is the cause for it, leading Rodimus and his band into all the key points where the DJD troops are mustered. Its a little bit of a stretch but I can buy it. Possible that Brainstorm was only a con for a while. After all, some of us have put forward the idea that it was Rewind who summoned the DJD to the ALL.

Personal hope - I'd like the DJD and Tarn to never reveal themselves BUT for all the clues to be there. Unlike Shockwave we never find out for certain but there are enough signposts to 95% confirm it. The clues are there for those who look but in-story the characters never reveal themselves (explaining why Prime et all never know)

Auntie Slag
2015-02-12, 07:16 PM
Christ, the Cyclonus/Tailgate domestic abuse thing finally makes sense to me; its a five panel segment but the fourth panel has rounded edges, as Denyer said, to suggest it as the flashback image these two characters are remembering.

That was not clear at all. The way I read it, it seemed like Cyclonus was apologising for the beating he was about to dish out, and Tailgate being fine with that. Now if they'd reprinted the one panel from the past of Cyclonus thwacking Tailgate across the room with a little reference at the bottom saying (*Issue 5), then I would have understood.

So apologies to Unicorn and Denyer for me going on and on earlier, it just took me that long to see it!

Skyquake87
2015-02-12, 11:07 PM
you're not the only one who didn't pick up on that straight away.


...bring back the Marvel UK red border flashback panels!!!

inflatable dalek
2015-02-13, 12:50 PM
Speaking of a good kicking, someone in charge will likely be doing that to themselves as it looks like, despite initially hoping to put two issues out in February in order to catch up, #38 won't be out till March now.

Death's Head
2015-02-13, 09:16 PM
:(

Heinrad
2015-02-15, 01:54 AM
Christ, the Cyclonus/Tailgate domestic abuse thing finally makes sense to me; its a five panel segment but the fourth panel has rounded edges, as Denyer said, to suggest it as the flashback image these two characters are remembering.

I took it as Cyclonus apologizing for wanting to give Tailgate a good kicking as well.

Really got to catch up on this series.