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zigzagger
2015-02-21, 09:05 PM
Transformers: More than Meets the Eye #38 three-page preview is up by way of iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/transformers-more-than-meets/id970726655?mt=11).

Provided there isn't any further delays, the full issue is scheduled for a March 4th release.

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Full previews for both titles are up @ Comics Continuum (http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/1503/03/idwfirsts.htm).

Denyer
2015-02-25, 10:56 PM
It's becoming redundant to make the observation, but there's more content in three pages there than in many full issues of other comics.

zigzagger
2015-02-25, 11:12 PM
...Or four issues (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/The_Transformers:_Drift_-_Empire_of_Stone) (now that is a redundant observation) ;)

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Not much to add regarding the preview; there's just enough here to satiate me until next week. Will say I'm enjoying this recurring theme of people calling Megatron out on his hypocrisies.

Judging by the preview pages though, Elegant Chaos is looking like it'll wrap things up nicely. Look forward to all the revelations and such.

Terome
2015-02-26, 08:51 PM
Ultra Magnus and Perceptor put Megatron in his motherloving place. That is sweeter than any big robot smackdown.

zigzagger
2015-02-26, 08:57 PM
Yeah, and the look Magnus gave to him. Like, "bitch, no you just didn't".

Terome
2015-02-26, 09:02 PM
Yeah. It also puts a new twist on why Ultra Magnus and Megatron get on so well - Ultra Magnus has the situation under control. It's a better reason as to why his OCD is in check than 'the joke got old.'

zigzagger
2015-03-04, 05:42 PM
Some quick thoughts while on the go...

A lot happened here, and in rapid succession. 'Rapid' being the operative word here. Brainstorm is thwarted, Rewind shoots Past-Megatron, Whirl saves Past-Megs with Stormy's one-percenter spark, and so and so on.... Hugely enjoyable, mind you, but gave little time for events to really sink in before jumping to the next crises.

And as is the case with many time traveling tales, it turns out our heroes created a their own little 'closed time loop' and were responsible for, well, a whole lotta things, if not the IDW-verse as a whole. Think the Lost Lighters have got Shockwave beat at this point ;)

Very much a plot-thread clearing house, this issue.

That's it for now. Think I need to stew on this one for a while longer.

Unicron
2015-03-04, 07:50 PM
And as is the case with many time traveling tales, it turns out our heroes created a their own little 'closed time loop' and were responsible for, well, a whole lotta things, if not the IDW-verse as a whole. Think the Lost Lighters have got Shockwave beat at this point ;)
By virtue of them being the reason that Megatron is Megatron, they finally out-do Shockwave in the 'responsible for everything in IDW' department.

I'm glad Brainstorm survived and turned out to be not truly evil/functionist lackey.

So in the Functionist reality, they finally know what Rung's alt mode is, and what's more, that Rung seems to have some clue himself. Interesting... I'm still thinking he's the literal key to activating/accessing some important device (possibly left by Primus, to deal with the eventual threat of Unicron or a returned Mortilus).

MikeB
2015-03-04, 08:34 PM
Absolutely loved this. I haven't got too much to say just yet, but I do love that it's the origin story of both the Lost Light and the Sparkeater discovered in the first arc. So much more to enjoy and ponder over as well. Yes there are lots of plot threads closed, but it's also opened up others and provided a launch point for a whole new section of the comic.

So much more to say that I'm sure will get said by others, but my word I enjoyed that.

inflatable dalek
2015-03-04, 08:53 PM
Well, there was very little here I don't think we guessed beforehand (did I say outloud Whirl would be the one to save Megatron? I hope I did because I totally called that), though the bits I don't think any of us spotted like the secret origin of The Lost Light were lovely little moments.

However, as a big fan of this sort of time travel story, I still loved how everything clicked together so smoothly and having pieced it together in advance just made it feel a satisfying paradox rather than anti-climactic.

The real surprise is Brainstorm being a straight up, if dissatisfied, Decepticon after all. All our great theories blown out of the water there. His attempts to set Megatron down a happier life being down to him never having killed anyone directly and not being able to bring himself to do it was a lovely touch.

He was also doing it all for love! His love being a scientist who turns into a microscope (actually based on another continuities Perceptor no less). Paging Doctor Froid.

On the other hand, Rewind's logic seemed a bit off (ironically after we thought he was ready to do anything for Dominus he still shot Megatron even though he must know what happened to him in the other timeline), but he's still suffereing from PTSD so that worked, and how it bought him and Domey back together was lovely.

Megatron's freak out at the start was brilliant as well, as was Perceptor not taking any shit off him, lovely character moments for both of them. And yes, silly as it might be, the Rodimus Star comparison was hilarious.

Was anyone expecting Whirl to have a Wrath of Khan moment when he went behind that door with Megatron? I thought it might go that putting the SUPER spark into Megs would have lethal consequences for whoever did it.

Slag is going to go ****ing nuts at the "Ha, Rung is important after all!" ending.

Two bits I wasn't so keen on:

The message from issue 1. I will take a good guess that this wasn't the original plan for it, hence the lampshading moment where Cyclonus points out the message not only makes no sense but is actually deeply unhelpful. It wound up making one of the series central mysteries a punchline, which is always a bit annoying (See also: The Circle of Light).

Perceptor almost destroying all of reality by accident.

Knightdramon
2015-03-04, 09:27 PM
Yeah, the message did seem like a HUGE cop-out. Especially after JR has said that the group might go to Delphi at another time, and the message could be linked at their second visit.

Some parts of the message, in retrospect, make no sense because nothing changed from them---

"Don't open the coffin"---the ship and bots had already started disappearing by that point, opening the coffin meant they actually got one step closer to solving that and bringing back a Rewind, plus the suitcase.

"Don't let them take Skids"---that actually had zero bearing at all. Having Skids in Tyrest's prison amounted to NOTHING. The only thing of notice that Skids did in RIL [besides us finding out his story] was interfacing with the alien/heaven race, but it has no repercussions at all at the point the message was made

"Don't go to Delphi"---again, less bad than good. Going to Delphi meant stopping Pharma, curing the red rust plague, "curing" Ratchet's faltering hands, getting Fort Max back to the autobot ranks as well as saving everybody on Delphi and taking a huge group of Autobots away from the DJD's grounds.

Overall good issue, even if it mean that it had to tie up everything. Liked Brainstorm's reveal [could tell he was not bad], although it still does not explain how a group of Autobots with 3 distinct different spark types traveled back, if the case was "locked" onto Brainstorm's spark type[s].

I am starting to really feel bad about Megatron though. More or less nobody showed to care about his death even though he's trying his hardest to fit in and change his ways. It would be funny if he ends up just going with the DJD next issue and calling it a day. :lol:

inflatable dalek
2015-03-04, 09:32 PM
Ah, and if Brainstorm's gun is the only way to create a real (as opposed to the mythical) Spark Eater, that means the guy shot with it last issue is someone we've met before and is associated with the DJD after all.

He wound up as their pet.

Oh Christ, the Spark Eater is going to wind up being Agent 113 isn't he?

Unicron
2015-03-04, 09:39 PM
Overall good issue, even if it mean that it had to tie up everything. Liked Brainstorm's reveal [could tell he was not bad], although it still does not explain how a group of Autobots with 3 distinct different spark types traveled back, if the case was "locked" onto Brainstorm's spark type[s].
It wasn't that it would only work for people WITH Brainstorm's spark type, it was it would work for people with COMPATIBLE spark types. Which, given their mostly unexplained nature, JimBob could have had the entire ship travel back if he wanted.

Ah, and if Brainstorm's gun is the only way to create a real (as opposed to the mythical) Spark Eater, that means the guy shot with it last issue is someone we've met before and is associated with the DJD after all.

He wound up as their pet.

Oh Christ, the Spark Eater is going to wind up being Agent 113 isn't he?
I think it's more like that the guy shot last issue isn't connected to the DJD, it's more likely that he turned out to be the original Sparkeater and genesis of the myth.

And the 'pet' isn't a true sparkeater, it's a mostly feral vicious turbofox.

Denyer
2015-03-04, 11:31 PM
Think I need to read this a few more times. Doesn't feel rushed to me, the style of Big Ideas but with pay-off after not stringing things out for too long has already been established. It's got a Liege Maximo moment at the end, and doubtless we haven't seen the last of the Functionist reality.

Just loved it being principally about characters.

Red Dave Prime
2015-03-04, 11:35 PM
On agent 113, I think we have discussed that possability haven't we? Pretty sure we did...

Apart from the message not working out I thought this was very well thought out tine travelling and to be fair with the message, that was written four/ five actual years ago and was meant more to tease the reader than anything else.

Great stuff. .

Terome
2015-03-05, 10:04 AM
Pretty much brilliant from beginning to end. All the resolutions felt very satisfying and appropriate. My one complaint about the earlier issues, those extra pages from Shadowplay, was very deftly accounted for by Brainstorm's thing for Quark. I loved it how Rung talked him down with his Psychology Superpower too.

Then there are the cheeky bits and bobs like the old U-1 / Lost Light and the Sparkeater. Thought those were nice surprises and handled very well.

I liked how the 'message from the future' was played out, personally. As a narrative trick, it served a purpose to tease some future developments so that we, as an audience, would gasp whenever a coffin was mentioned, etc. but we're 38 issues in now and we don't need it any more. I liked that we expected it to be an accurate and precisely-delivered prophecy but instead was a poorly considered, off-the-cuff scheme from the members of the crew least inclined to think things through. We've got Tailgate's embellishments and flair for the dramatic, Rodimus' guilt, Chromedome's remorse and Riptide's blinkered jingoism. I'd wager that Roberts only had a vague idea of where that message was going to be resolved back in issue #1 but I think this was the best possible way to tie it up with a bow.

It's possible that the big Rung Thing might end up the same way - the Functionists are upset because he's a component of a machine they destroyed rather than being a world-ending horror. It's neat though that whatever the outcome it's serving as the lead in to What Comes Next.

Oh, and how great was Megatron's Rodimus Star throughout this issue? First it's a joke on Rodimus then it's something Ultra Magnus seems geniunely proud of then it's something that Megatron pensively reflects upon after he sees Rewind cheerfully murder him and everyone accept the morality of his argument.

Whirl is certainly very dextrous with those claws, isn't he?

Dead Man Wade
2015-03-05, 05:55 PM
Whirl is certainly very dextrous with those claws, isn't he?

"Harder than fixing a watch? I think not."

Yeah, but that was before you...you don't have...whatever.

Overall, it was about as good an ending to the storyline as one could ask for. Time Travel Stories are a hard thing to pull off properly, and this one did it reasonably well, while wrapping up a lot of plot threads. My one real complaint would be Brainstorm's whole Decepticon thing. Yes, it's really nice that there wasn't a nice pat answer for it, like had been theorized by some. However, it wasn't really addressed to any great degree. It was just kind of:

"You've been a Decepticon the whole time?"
"Indeed."
"Well, that was dashed cunning of you. We'll be having a chat about that, I can tell you."
"I understand completely."

It was for love, great. But what does it mean? Has he been secretly working against Autobot interests the entire time, because so far all we've got is him working for centuries to make Megatron sunnier. It just seemed a bit underwhelming, is all; I figured the bulk of the time spent after returning to the present would be spent at least asking some difficult questions, rather than just a shot of him in the brig.

Death's Head
2015-03-05, 06:08 PM
Well, it's not over yet, is it? More issues to come!

I dropped the comic and burst out laughing at "And for the sake of the Cybertronian race..."

Phase Sixer
2015-03-05, 06:38 PM
Wow, mtmte is like the best tf comic run of all time

Great time travel story, I may not see it like others, but to me this story played out perfectly, it's true time travel in the sense that yes you can go back in time, but you can't fundamentally change things, what has happened has already happened and all you can do is change how it may have happened, but never actually change the outcome itself

Also the message from issue 1, it makes perfect sense, tailgate, rodimus, and company, are just expressing the things that they know happened on their trip that from their point of view didn't go well and it's something that they purely think that from their perspective would possibly make things better, to which Cyclonus quickly rebutes them and shows them that if those events wouldn't have happened you wouldn't be where you are now

So now we know that Megatron is constructed cold (I figured that from chaos when spring arm is questioning him about being forged or cc, and he didn't want to say, because from these books ALL bots who are forged are not in anyway shy of it being known they are forged) but the story I want now is how did Meg's originally get the POP spark in his body the 1st time

Now I want to know what's up with Rung, what does he turn into? The key for vector sigma? Does he have something to do with primus or unicron? I wonder why he scares the functionalists to the point where they took out his t-cog, second thing is this, Roberts has been hinting at the fact that rung is special, the spark eater went straight after him, and brainstorm not knowing who's spark is who's, obviously when he tried to get Megatrons spark signature he got rungs instead he must have just went for the better/brighter spark, assumed it was Megatrons, but indeed it's actually rung and since that's happened on those occasions and we are talking about James Roberts here, it can't be a coincidence, can it?

Unicron
2015-03-05, 07:12 PM
So now we know that Megatron is constructed cold (I figured that from chaos when spring arm is questioning him about being forged or cc, and he didn't want to say, because from these books ALL bots who are forged are not in anyway shy of it being known they are forged) but the story I want now is how did Meg's originally get the POP spark in his body the 1st time
There was no first time. Megatron having a POP spark was always because Whirl jammed it into him after Rewind murdered Joe Convoy (the CC spark that was originally intended for Megatron's body). It's a predestination paradox/causality loop. These events were always part of history, the LL crew (and us the readers) are just finally learning it.

inflatable dalek
2015-03-05, 07:28 PM
It was for love, great. But what does it mean? Has he been secretly working against Autobot interests the entire time, because so far all we've got is him working for centuries to make Megatron sunnier. It just seemed a bit underwhelming, is all; I figured the bulk of the time spent after returning to the present would be spent at least asking some difficult questions, rather than just a shot of him in the brig.

I think a few people must have been asking Roberts directly about things like that as he's come out on Twitter to say that this wasn't the last ever issue and peoples concerns about motivations and consequences will be addressed.

I liked how the 'message from the future' was played out, personally. As a narrative trick, it served a purpose to tease some future developments so that we, as an audience, would gasp whenever a coffin was mentioned, etc. but we're 38 issues in now and we don't need it any more. I liked that we expected it to be an accurate and precisely-delivered prophecy but instead was a poorly considered, off-the-cuff scheme from the members of the crew least inclined to think things through. We've got Tailgate's embellishments and flair for the dramatic, Rodimus' guilt, Chromedome's remorse and Riptide's blinkered jingoism. I'd wager that Roberts only had a vague idea of where that message was going to be resolved back in issue #1 but I think this was the best possible way to tie it up with a bow.

I just think it had run too long to be resolved with a gag, it wasn't as if the comic needed a long running tease after the first few issues. Indeed, I think it had most of us at "Hello".

Auntie Slag
2015-03-07, 05:26 PM
That was spectacular! What a cool ending, bouncing around in so many ways, adding so much more than I thought would be contained in an issue like this. I’m so happy that Brainstorm isn’t a killer Decepticon. As I was reading it, I started to wonder; if Brainstorm wasn’t trying to save anyone by this escapade, and considering the pointlessness of someone like Brainstorm killing Megatron, the creator of a four-million years war that’s kept Brainstorm in the crazy weapons department that he so loves… was he simply happy to destroy the timeline and himself with it? The only reason that didn’t make sense is because he’s a coward (re: his reaction to the Sparkeater when confronted in the lift).

I saw a picture on Twitter that made me wonder if Perceptor is the reformatted or rebodied version of Quark? But then there isn’t anything particularly revelatory about that. Still glad that Brainstorm was ultimately doing it for love, touching on that one panel from issue drawn by the different artist where Brainstorm looks deeply at an emotionally (and physically) crippled Chromedome.

I wonder if Whirl is going to make the odd “Whose your Daddy” statements, or start having any mildly paternal feelings towards Megatron? Also (and this bugs me a lot now), Whirl is infinitely dextrous with his claws. What need does he have for hands any more? Or was he absolutely unbelievable with his hands that would have put him in league with Ratchet? Mind you, he hasn’t wanted normal hands since his imprisonment on Garrus-1.

But that other thing is, what use do Transformers have for Watchmakers? Its not suggested anywhere that Whirl was an analogue watchmaker, but is that not what we’re all thinking? Its an art form of a sort, but… is that why the Functionists wanted his business put down, because it reflected art and creative notions? Harder to control that, perhaps. So its more that Whirl was feared because he was an artist/anarchist and watchmaking was an outlet.

It makes me wonder if the title ‘Elegant Chaos’ is a reference to Whirl; being the first to split from the Functionist’s dogma, and therefore the first thing to tear everything apart, and yet can create beauteous timepieces or order.

And the final page suggests Rung is linked to Unicron, by way of the lines and patterns in the close-up of Rung’s face, appearing to reference the detailing on Unicron in the ’86 movie. Also, Rung is the same colour and pattern as Unicron in the movie, which I’d not noticed until the detailing on the final page. Milne has never drawn anyone in such a way… that must be a giveaway, and what else would scare the Functionists so much?

inflatable dalek
2015-03-08, 01:24 AM
I’m so happy that Brainstorm isn’t a killer Decepticon.

Well, unless there's a twist forthcoming (and I wouldn't put it past Roberts), he's still a Decepticon. And he has been responsible for a lot of death's even if he never pulled the trigger himself (which is after all, how his alternate self caused the deaths of the entire ALL crew). He's certianly not a nice person, he's just done terrible things out of a sympathetic motivation.

indeed, Brainstorm was happy to do terrible things for love even though the net result was worse in the long run for the Transformers.

Rewind was prepared to do a terrible thing because it was better for the rest of the Galaxy even if he knew with complete certainty it meant something awful happening to Dominus. His thinking about the rest of his species may have been clouded, but he was by far the more selfless one there.


But that other thing is, what use do Transformers have for Watchmakers?

Well, what use for watchmakers does Western society have when we all have phones that do 50 other jobs and also tell the time? It's just considered an art for the sake of an art by the rich (there's probably a Transformer vinyl maker out there as well), that doesn't stop him doing a delicate difficult job though.


And the final page suggests Rung is linked to Unicron, by way of the lines and patterns in the close-up of Rung’s face, appearing to reference the detailing on Unicron in the ’86 movie. Also, Rung is the same colour and pattern as Unicron in the movie, which I’d not noticed until the detailing on the final page. Milne has never drawn anyone in such a way… that must be a giveaway, and what else would scare the Functionists so much?

Oh no, I can take the "Tarn is Roller" theories on the chin, but "Rung/Unicron" I say no too! ;)

Knightdramon
2015-03-08, 01:58 AM
Was re-reading S1 these days...the image into AF Rung's eyes [and Underbase-esque face] is more or less the same as the image in our Rung's eyes when he looks at the portal leading to Luna 1 on Remain in Light pt1.

Was thinking about this on my way home...basically for stuff to happen as they do, a very specific sub-set of bots must survive no matter what up until that point in that timeline. In order for that to happen, many other bots need to stay alive/dead in order for them all to be present, at that spot, together.

Just some sociotemporal hot spots I thought about.

--Nova Major must survive the siege at Prima's castle approximately 6 million years ago. In doing so, he becomes Nova Prime, who introduces spark splicing/constructed cold bots, of which some important ones are present in that event. He must also take Cyclonus onto the Dead Universe [killing him], so that Cyclonus can be revitalized in order to save Tailgate, as well as aid Rodimus in various Elegant Chaos events, the most notable being energizing the U1/Lost Light, so the technology that they use to go back in time happens at first.

Tailgate must survive no matter what in order to stop Tyrest from killing the constructed cold bots, which would end Brainstorm's life.

Overlord must live long enough to wreck havoc on the Lost Light, killing [citation needed] the original Rewind, which would push Chromedome into further despair, which prompted Brainstorm to alter his original plan and try to change Megatron's path instead of just saving Quark. Rewind being dead [citation needed] needs to happen in order for AL Rewind to still exist when the duplicate Lost Light vanishes, who then proceeds to shoot and kill Megatron's original spark.

Roller/Tarn must proceed with saving the sparks that go on to Nyon, Rodimus potentially being one of them, and Chromedome needs to erase Pax's crew's memories in order for them to forget Roller, who then goes to the dark side and leads the DJD to murder the AL Lost Light Autobots but leave AL Rewind alive.

Rodimus must live so he kills off Tyrest's killswitch [only possible via Tailgate], ensuring Brainstorm is alive, and then must lead some crew of the Lost Light back in time, aid in himself being born and energize the U1/Lost Light's engines.

Chromedome must live to go in deep regret over Rewind's death, which prompts Brainstorm to change his original plan. He must also live to erase the memory from Pax and the others about Roller---see above for his chain.

AL Rewind must survive the Alt LL massacre orchestrated by Roller/Tarn who went there because of Overlord so that he might go back in time to shoot Megatron's original spark.

Rung must live to set foot on Luna 1, energizing Megatron's superspark which then Brainstorm takes. Rung must also be present at the bar to set off the fight that started getting Megatron on the warpath.

Whirl must survive everything up until that point, not only to actually cause Megatron to shift his ways in the past, but also to save Megatron by putting the 0.1% spark in him and save him.

Rodimus and Cyclonus, combined, must live to energize the Lost Light's engines in the past, which prompted the technology that actually splits the Lost Light in two parallel LL's in the present, which prompted the crew to find out that Brainstorm is a Decepticon but also so that a duplicate time travelling briefcase is available.

I swear, this can go on forever if I was up to it.

Warcry
2015-03-08, 06:02 AM
Yeah, the message did seem like a HUGE cop-out. Especially after JR has said that the group might go to Delphi at another time, and the message could be linked at their second visit.

Some parts of the message, in retrospect, make no sense because nothing changed from them---
Agreed, it was a big cop-out. I get the feeling, though, that the story has deviated so far from Roberts' original plans by now that his original ideas for the message simply didn't work anymore. That's not something I can really blame him for, since a lot of the things that happened since the series launched weren't his doing (such as Dark Cybertron and the presence of Megatron).

But the issue wrapped up so many other, little mysteries that it felt like this one didn't get the attention it deserved. It probably would have worked better if they'd sent it when they thought the existing timeline was doomed, rather than tacking it on at the end as a nonsensical aside in between finding a home for Brainstorm's stolen spark and explaining where the Lost Light came from. Just a bit too much flying around at once, IMO.

On the other hand, Rewind's logic seemed a bit off (ironically after we thought he was ready to do anything for Dominus he still shot Megatron even though he must know what happened to him in the other timeline), but he's still suffereing from PTSD so that worked, and how it bought him and Domey back together was lovely.
Was his logic off, though? We still don't know what Dominus's fate in the real timeline was, or if our replacement Rewind ever found out about it. Maybe what happened to him here was even worse than the fate he suffered in the other timeline? Or maybe the war turned him into a monster and Rewind figured that dying a martyred hero was better than that?

Either way, my favourite thing about this issue is that even though it's got a lot going on, it's still very character-oriented. A lot of TF writers will get lost in the action at the climax of their stories, but Roberts seems to have a good handle on how to keep the two balanced. His characters drive the plot, not vice-versa. And because of that you can look back on the issue in retrospect and say "of course it turned out like that!" Because there was no other way it could turn out with this group of characters on the scene, and we've come to know them all well enough to see that after the fact.

(I am slightly miffed that neither Rewind nor anyone else seems to care that he murdered an innocent miner who totally wasn't Megatron for what turned out to be no good reason, though.)

Unicron
2015-03-08, 09:01 AM
(I am slightly miffed that neither Rewind nor anyone else seems to care that he murdered an innocent miner who totally wasn't Megatron for what turned out to be no good reason, though.)
Yeah, that's been bugging me too. Perhaps we'll get scenes of Rewind being all distraught over it. That or maybe Brainstorm will try pointing it out and everyone dismiss it because he's a dick.

inflatable dalek
2015-03-08, 08:49 PM
Was his logic off, though? We still don't know what Dominus's fate in the real timeline was, or if our replacement Rewind ever found out about it. Maybe what happened to him here was even worse than the fate he suffered in the other timeline? Or maybe the war turned him into a monster and Rewind figured that dying a martyred hero was better than that?

Well, we know Dominus had his head replaced and his mind altered to be a walking TV advert (and that presumably Rewind saw all that when his Database updated), if we assume Rewind doesn't know what really happened to our Dominus that's got to be something he wants not to happen.


(I am slightly miffed that neither Rewind nor anyone else seems to care that he murdered an innocent miner who totally wasn't Megatron for what turned out to be no good reason, though.)

You know, I hadn't thought of that. Rewind you bastard!

Auntie Slag
2015-03-08, 10:32 PM
It was mildly amusing to see the word 'numpty' used by Tailgate. Makes me think of The Office, where Tim changed his screensaver to read 'Gareth is a Benny'.

zigzagger
2015-03-11, 07:27 AM
Yay. Later than usual, but I got a moment to add a few additional thoughts.

I suppose this was the best opportunity for lot of these threads to be tied up, especially with the Sparkeater origin and the message. Fairly tidy, and a good contingency in case, well, storylines end up being truncated. Still maintain it was a whole lot of happenstances for one issue.

No biggie, though, and all said happenstances were pretty nifty. Besides, Elegant Chaos' strength has been its character work. Except for Riptide (seriously, what the **** is this guy's deal?), everyone in the time traveling party got to have their moment.

Not at all fussed about Brainstorm's motivation. I was strangely satisfied that it wasn't anything grand or convoluted (doesn't always have to be). A dissatisfied "Decepticon", who did it all for love. It was refreshing "twist".

A shame we're probably not going to get a follow up on this -- the Decepticon thing, and any other repercussions that often sprout up from these sort of time travel tales ---until issue #40. Going by the solicitations, mind you, and those aren't known for their accuracy.

Not a huge complaint, though it briefly took me out of the moment, but how did Whirl get to Brainstorm's 'spare' spark and drag Megatron's body away so quickly and without anyone noticing?

Eh, whatever. Sort of thing happens in comics all the time.

inflatable dalek
2015-03-11, 10:18 AM
As I touched upon in the Cliffy You Fool thread, I think the point of Riptide in retrospect is more obvious now than it seemed before. To have one entirely new character on the Rod Pod we couldn't be entirely sure hadn't been on the Lost Light the first time it launched (and indeed could be shoved in a misdirecting pre-lauch flashback) in amongst all the new toy based new characters we knew for a fact weren't, making the mystery Nightbeat had to solve that bit more tricky.

Everything he's done before and since has basically been to make him look less like a plot device.

Nice podcast interview with James Roberts here about the storyline in general, including the reveal I didn't expect that the message in issue 1 was always going to be coming from the past rather than the future (it's only who'd be sending it he was vague on at the time):

http://www.transmissionspodcast.com/2015/03/transmissions-episode-94-james-roberts-mtmte-elegant-chaos-interview/

Terome
2015-03-12, 12:33 PM
I am Terome and I speak for Riptide.

Here's what he's good for:
1. He's a buffer against the hyper-competents. Brainstorm, Perceptor, Rung, Nightbeat, et al. are supposed to be good at their jobs and unabashedly so. Riptide is just a grunt. In this he serves the same function as Swerve and Tailgate but can also act as muscle.
2. As a MTO he has a different origin and perspective to the other characters (except Getaway, who is hyper-competent).
3. He has learning difficulties, which is kind of novel. We've had a lot of generically dumb characters before but most of them are Decepticons or in use elsewhere.
4. He's a boat buddy for Nautica.
5. He states the obvious amongst a cast where people talk in jokes, vagueries or not at all.
6. He's a bigot. Bigots are useful ways to spin drama. Mainframe's a bigot too, but he's needed elsewhere on the ship.

In conclusion, if Mainframe could turn into a boat and was a bit more of a front-liner, Riptide would probably be Mainframe.

Auntie Slag
2015-03-15, 02:01 AM
Brainstorm made a comment about feeling like he was dying, and no-one seemed bothered. Whirl took the green spark and put it in Megatron's body, so was Brainstorm on the cusp of croaking?

The last time we see him he's sitting down in what may be a cell on the Lost Light, but if nothing came of his 'dying' statement, why was it mentioned?

inflatable dalek
2015-03-15, 02:17 AM
Because, even if he can't shoot someone, Brainstorm is still a lying untrustworthy bastard who was trying to be all "Woe is me!" but no one care because even if he did try to prevent the war in the nice way his Decepticon double agent status must have caused the deaths of a lot of their friends (as I say in the cliffy thread, if nothing else Brainstorm has to be the missing link between Skyfall and the Decepticons getting hold of Gideon's Glue because otherwise security at Kimia is totally crap and Xaaron should hang himself in shame)?

["EXPLAIN BRAINSTORM!" is one of the questions Roberts has responded to on Twitter with "This wasn't actually the last issue" so explanations should be forthcoming soon either way]

My question is... Two spark types are able to follow Brainstorm back into the past because he has his own spark and what became Megatron's. How did those of the second type manage to return to the present with only Brainstorm's "Normal" spark to activate the case?

Warcry
2015-03-15, 03:37 AM
My question is... Two spark types are able to follow Brainstorm back into the past because he has his own spark and what became Megatron's. How did those of the second type manage to return to the present with only Brainstorm's "Normal" spark to activate the case?
Reading back, it looks like he specifically built the case to only let his spark type (and probably Megatron's as well, though it's not stated outright) use it for travel, rather than the "matching spark type" requirement being a natural reaction to Brainstorm (and his spare spark) having used it. So even though Megatron didn't make the trip back, the equipment was still calibrated to let sparks of that type through.

Though I'm not sure any of the away team had Megatron-type sparks, because they probably didn't know he'd taken one with him until the last issue. They may all be matches strictly to Brainstorm himself.

inflatable dalek
2015-03-15, 03:42 AM
They may all be matches strictly to Brainstorm himself.


I've not done this research myself (I can't tell the difference between Cyclops and Colossus after all) but apparently everyone who went back in time has one of two spark types: the same one Brainstorm has and the same one Megatron has (if that's wrong, someone stone Chris McFeely).

Though the case already being "On" to those types works fine as a solution.

tahukanuva
2015-03-15, 04:10 AM
Brainstorm made a comment about feeling like he was dying, and no-one seemed bothered. Whirl took the green spark and put it in Megatron's body, so was Brainstorm on the cusp of croaking?

The last time we see him he's sitting down in what may be a cell on the Lost Light, but if nothing came of his 'dying' statement, why was it mentioned?

I just assumed he was dying because Rodimus blew him half up with a grenade? It definitely put a damper on his day at least.

("The old time travelling grenade trick" ["Is it really old?" "It is now!"] bit is one of my favorite jokes in the series, I must say.)

Skyquake87
2015-03-15, 02:29 PM
Read and enjoyed. Not much to add that all you folks haven't already said. I liked the bit where they were watching Back To The Future Part 2, which instantly sent up all the quibbles anyone might have had with this time travel arc.

I also had to double take, because I thought Cyclonus was singing along to Huey Lewis. Turned out it was Swerve and the speech bubble wasn't pointing in the right direction. But I like to pretend it was Cyclonus.

And that James Roberts, he's a massive tease with that ending isn't he? Cheeky man.

inflatable dalek
2015-03-16, 07:15 AM
No, it's Cyclonus singing. Roberts must have psychically knew you were thinking on this as he mentioned it on twitter yesterday.

Huey Lewis probably sounds like that olde Cybertronian opera he likes so much.

Auntie Slag
2015-03-17, 11:11 PM
I just assumed he was dying because Rodimus blew him half up with a grenade?

But he didn't though, did he? He's still intact, shaken... but that seems to be about it. Limbs didn't get blown off.

If Brainstorm had prevented Megatron becoming an evil so and so, many of the characters aboard the Lost Light would fail to exist, like Riptide for example. Megatron's responsible for billions of deaths, but he's also responsible for many births too, as per Riptide's comment about his own origin.

Finally, Riptide and Nautica are so specifically detailed. There must be toys of the two due to come out? Otherwise I wonder why bother creating someone like Riptide at all. I'd have preferred Seaspray to fill that role, or Waverider.

[Edit] Just wanted to highlight my hypocrisy over disliking Riptide and Nautica's inclusion despite having no problem with non-G1 characters filling biggish roles in this title such as Drift, and non-toy characters like as Ambulon, Pharma and Fulcrum... and of course Rung!

Auntie Slag
2015-03-31, 12:59 PM
Whilst trying to avoid work, I read a thread on Transfans which pointed to this Australian website (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=17256) talking about Rung's alt-mode.

What do you think? The other people's responses to Paulbot's guess give it extra weight, along with a possible explanation for Rung's serial number. I certainly never would have guessed this!

[Edit] To counter the guess, the image Paulbot references is done by artist James Raiz. If you compare that with an alt-mode image drawn by series regular Milne (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:WordsHangInTheAir-Nightbeat.jpg) Rung's alt-mode looks quite different.

[Another edit] When Springer eventually returns to the scene; Whirl is going to have to answer for his actions re: attempting to place Roadbuster's Sparkeater weapon on Springer's comatose body.

This raises a few questions, like;

1) What is Roadbuster doing with a Sparkeater thing? In this case it looks like an organic creature, rather than Brainstorm's spark eater gun. Does this suggest that Sparkeating is a naturally organic thing and perhaps a reason for Transformers to fear some types of organic beings/races?

2) After seeing what Brainstorm's gun does to people, why on earth would Whirl choose this as a method to end Springers life? It implicates Roadbuster, his friend, as the killer. Its a grisly way to go... surely it would be better to find a random gun and shoot through Springer's spark for an insta-kill, much more humane that way.

3) If/when Springer does come around, doesn't that mean Whirl is going to go straight back to prison unless Rung can determine Whirl mentally unfit? Why has Roadbuster not said anything about this for the last three years... is he incapacitated, or dead?

4) So in IDW's universe there is a naturally occurring Sparkeater, and Brainstorm's gun. Is the former a dead universe creation? was this clarified during Dark Cybertron or any of the -ation or Spotlight series?

[And another edit!] Apologies for going on about Whirl all the time. Cliffjumper's thread about 'What's the purpose of having 200 members on the Lost Light crew' and the lack of character development got me wondering a bit... My hunch is that Whirl is perhaps the most important Transformer of all because he possesses the certain something that caused him to breakaway from his function & cause everything up to now.

He's also perhaps depressed (Red Alert overhearing him having a blazing row with himself, and his entire history up to that point), a liar (saying Cyclonus tried to kill him in issue 1, and locking Cyclonus and Rewind in with the bomb in issue 14), and definitely suicidal (taunting a psychotic Fort Max in the hostage story, and taking on Megatron in issue 32).

Rung may be the second most important Transformer in terms of his bright spark. I have a hunch that should MTMTE all come to an end, it will end with these two... or just Whirl!

This issue has shown that perhaps Brainstorm did everything for love. Whirl has seemingly no love for anyone at all, but maybe has a few things working in his favour; Megatron's decree has kept him alive, and Rung may know something significant about Whirl that may tie the two of them together.

So he's come closest to death from the hands of Autobots (Fort Max), and Cyclonus, who presumably never held to Megatron's decree, because he's not a Decepticon. Its a good thing Cyclonus didn't follow through with his threat!

Terome
2015-03-31, 04:14 PM
Whilst trying to avoid work, I read a thread on Transfans which pointed to this Australian website (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=17256) talking about Rung's alt-mode.

What do you think? The other people's responses to Paulbot's guess give it extra weight, along with a possible explanation for Rung's serial number. I certainly never would have guessed this!

[Edit] To counter the guess, the image Paulbot references is done by artist James Raiz. If you compare that with an alt-mode image drawn by series regular Milne (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:WordsHangInTheAir-Nightbeat.jpg) Rung's alt-mode looks quite different.



Nah. For one, it wouldn't make any sense. Metroplex can transform on his own without a big silly lever. And why would Metroplex's missing lever be such a big deal to the Functionists? Why would Metroplex's missing lever be interesting in any way?

Also, beyond being roughly cylindrical, those two objects really aren't drawn very similarly at all.

To my shame I haven't read 'Zero Point' yet. But I'd hazard a guess and say that maybe Roadbuster's Sparkeater gun is not Brainstorm's Sparkeater gun, if only to eliminate confusion.

Auntie Slag
2015-03-31, 04:44 PM
Yeah, I agree with you. At first I was thinking "stone me, they've got it", what with the Titans featuring in both MTMTE and RID, but yes, they're basing it on the drawing of a one-off artist. Shaky ground.

As for Roadbuster's sparkeater, its not a gun, its like a giant parasite with some strange identification marks that may be significant at a later date! It featured in a panel of the regular MTMTE comic (possibly the first issue), with Whirl attempting to rest it on Springer's chest so that it would, presumably, eat through his armour to the spark beneath.

I remember it being really weird, reminding me slightly of the brain-leech things from limbo in the old comics' issue 100 story.

inflatable dalek
2015-03-31, 04:52 PM
FWIW, Roberts has said there's no such thing as a natural Spark Eater, the two created by Whirl were the first; with the one not locked up on the Lost Light being for the sole narrative purpose of explaining where the stories came from (though it may have the ability to "breed" and create others).

Roadbusters Spark Eater weapon works differently to Brainstorms, one act like a Spark Eater (in that it removes and destroys your spark as a means of assisted suicide in that case) whilst the other turns you into a spark eating monster. Beyond the similar name they're completely different.

Auntie Slag
2015-03-31, 05:06 PM
Seems a bit weird having both called Sparkeaters, even if that's what they both do. Its confusing for the reader, well... it confused me anyway.

I can't help but wonder why Roadbuster's one looks like an organic creature? It doesn't even look like a knock-off Insecticon, it looks like a proper, moving, wriggling thing!

And where would you keep something of that size in the event of an assisted suicide? Its smaller than Aquitas, but then most things are. Maybe it is no big deal, but we all know by now that everything is designed in MTMTE for a reason. If Whirl wanted to help Springer die then he could have pulled the plug on the life support, got a gun or something else. I mean, pulling life support may trigger an alert to the medics, but so would a Sparkeater.

[Edit]On a side note, I just saw images today of Generations Ultra Magnus. He's all modern MTMTE Magnus COMPLETE WITH MINIMUS AMBUS! I suppose you have to supply your own desk, nameplate and desk tidy, but he's got all the groovy stylings on comic Magnus. He looks an absolute beast. The only downside is I can't see the irreducible Minimus, but still!

I also saw an absolutely ass-kicking Generations First Aid. I don't think he's out yet, but wow! Looks very different to the current comic depiction, which means he may about to be pummelled through the floor by the DJD over the next few issues before his triumphant rebirth as a hep cat!

Auntie Slag
2015-03-31, 07:27 PM
Unicron made this prediction last August in the Issue 32 thread:

"Anyone placing odds on the crew and perhaps Ravage talking Megatron into getting a new body made, a non-poisoned and strong one, so he can properly fight the DJD? Maybe Brainstorm would give him the inter-dimensional circuitry to syphon anti-matter from a black hole finally."

Sounds spookily plausible, and if anyone's going to finish off the DJD it may as well be their band manager Ian... I mean Megatron, with a Cricket bat and a black hole.

Unicron
2015-03-31, 08:28 PM
Yeah, I came up with that idea a while back. Seemed reasonable, as Ratchet has brought it up twice, Perceptor thought it was stupid and thus it seemed like the sort of thing Brainstorm would be all 'Perceptor thinks it can't be done? We'll see about that' about.
But with Brainy in the brig and somehow Decepticon affiliated, it seems less likely now.

Wouldn't be the first time I kicked around an idea that was totally wrong. I mean I'd been thinking Defensor would result from mad-science on the Lost Light so they'd have something big to take on the DJD but now it seems we get the somewhat bland approach of them taking a shuttle to visit the McGuffin.

Auntie Slag
2015-03-31, 09:59 PM
Maybe the DJD kidnap Megatron in an effort to turn him back to the dark side and its they who give him a new body (because if they kidnap him, they probably won't take the poisonous special brew on the Lost Light he needs to drink to keep him alive).

Has anyone followed up on why Rung went missing during the Slaughterhouse storyline? He told Megatron he wouldn't be around after their initial talk, and its not clear whether his alternate self was aboard the alternate Lost Light during the massacre.

I read an article on the TFWiki just now, about the Black Box Consortia & the Galactic Empire fighting with the DJD over the alternative Lost Light. Night beat mentioned evidence of a lot of warping in the area prior to their arrival. This is the same Black Box Consortia who put up such a fight against the Functionists, that the Functionists had to sell them Luna 2 as a sort of truce!

How does Rung know to stay out of all this?

And on another side note (I'm reaaaaaally dodging work), I'm starting to imagine famous voice actors suitable for the parts. Very British led, with the exception of Rodimus who could be played a bit more internationally.

Overlord: Tim Curry or Jaime Lannister from Game of Thrones.
Chromedome: Paul Bettany
Swerve: Nick Frost
Skids: Aiden Turner
Ultra Magnus: Clive Owen
Rewind: Nicholas Hoult
Getaway: Jude Law
Rung: Stephen Mackintosh
Whirl: Richard O' Brien
Cyclonus: Tim Roth
Red Alert: Hugh Dancy
Perceptor: Benedict Cumberbatch
Ratchet: Sam Neill
Rodimus: James McAvoy
Megatron: Vincent Cassell
First Aid: Gael García Bernal
Tailgate: Elijah Wood
Impactor: Dominic West
Drift: Cillian Murphy
Tarn: Michael Fassbender
Trailcutter: Bill Bailey
Prowl: Colin Firth
Brawn: Matt Berry
Brainstorm: Chris Barrie or Tom Hiddleston
Tyrest Mark Strong


It could raise the question of how old you think the cast are? I picked certain voices because they have rich, grand Leadership voices. Some are distinctive (I think James McAvoy could play a cocky arse like Rodimus) and others because they reflect who in the list I think are younger (First Aid, Rewind).

Unicron
2015-03-31, 10:43 PM
Has anyone followed up on why Rung went missing during the Slaughterhouse storyline? He told Megatron he wouldn't be around after their initial talk, and its not clear whether his alternate self was aboard the alternate Lost Light during the massacre.

I read an article on the TFWiki just now, about the Black Box Consortia & the Galactic Empire fighting with the DJD over the alternative Lost Light. Night beat mentioned evidence of a lot of warping in the area prior to their arrival. This is the same Black Box Consortia who put up such a fight against the Functionists, that the Functionists had to sell them Luna 2 as a sort of truce!

How does Rung know to stay out of all this?

Nightbeat noted from alt-Rewind's infodump dataslug that alt-Rung was 'lost' during the explosion, hence why alt-Rodimus used alt-Animus as alt-Sparkeater bait and got his alt-head stuck in the alt-engine. Alt. (I should also note that I feel the usage of 'lost' by Nightbeat is a little ambiguous. Could be alt-Rung died or was sucked out into space. Or possibly even blinked out like the real Lost Light and crew did, due to some 'maintaining the cosmic order' BS where he's important to the grand design but can't be duplicated even in a quantum accident. That last bit is from me thinking Rung is the key for some Primus-ordained Deus Ex Machina and thus vital to the safety of reality.)
And Rung said he sensed that he and Megatron wouldn't get to talk like that again, not that he wouldn't be around. Whether that's an indicator of some kind of prescience on Rung's part or just him thinking Megsy wouldn't be willing to partake in further therapy sessions I don't know.

Yeah, that BBC is a tough bunch, it would seem. Weird that we still haven't directly seen them yet, though we only ran into the GC once so far despite a few references. Universe building and potential future threat, I suppose.

Skyquake87
2015-04-01, 07:31 AM
If Rung isn't a lever for titans ... how about one for Cybertron..?