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zigzagger
2015-06-23, 06:14 AM
Transformers: More than Meets the Eye #42 full preview @ Tformers (http://tformers.com/ig.php?mode=album&album=26928&start=0&sl=idw-comics-preview-transformers-more-th).

Out June 24!

Selkadoom
2015-06-23, 07:10 AM
A bit disappointed we didnt get a Battoussi joke but overall looks promising. The scathing literary quptations bit though is going into my potential weapons catalogue, along the the low iq affecting Sarcasm beam

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-06-23, 08:07 AM
Hmm, Skids was infected by the energy sapping nasties, but Nautica seemingly wasn't, as evidenced by her energetic dancing. Maybe the female TFs are immune to the bugs somehow? That could explain why Thunderclash's ship seems to now have a high percentage of female crew - the males have already been felled by the bugs.

zigzagger
2015-06-23, 02:52 PM
Huh. Learned more about Camien culture in a five page preview, than in five issues of Combiner Wars.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-06-23, 04:04 PM
Indeed. I wonder if Windblade and Chromia are Amica Endurae in t'other books? That could explain why Windblade has to turn a blind eye to Chromia's actions at times - the shame of "unfriending" her would be terrible.

Selkadoom
2015-06-23, 07:47 PM
Indeed. I wonder if Windblade and Chromia are Amica Endurae in t'other books? That could explain why Windblade has to turn a blind eye to Chromia's actions at times - the shame of "unfriending" her would be terrible.

Their equivalent of Facebook must be a goddamn minefield.

Terome
2015-06-24, 11:54 AM
It's out and I've read it because I don't need to be at work today!




SPOILERS




This wasn't terribly well done but it was enjoyable. Those two missing pages could have really made all the difference. I was struggling to make out some of the action and the punchline with Megatron and Rodimus was completely lost on me.

It's a shame because there was some wit and knockabout fun going on but the cramped spaces made them more puzzling than satisfactory. Even silly stuff like the end Quantum Leap with Swerve took a bit of scrutiny before I realised what was going on and so could get the joke.

I said it in the last issue but the overt and repeated Earth culture name-dropping isn't entirely welcome. The leaking of the MTMTE Playlists, which I really enjoy, into the comic is a bit uneasy.

I might be judging this a tad harshly. A reread might be in order soon. I did enjoy Thunderclash's overblown speech and Cyclonus' little bit. I liked Ravage and Riptide in the bar and I felt the general Red Dwarfy tone landed well. It's a pity that there just wasn't room for it all!

zigzagger
2015-06-24, 03:00 PM
Quick notes:


Hmmmm.

It was alright. Totally ****ing ridiculous, but alright. Fun, but not leaving a huge impression.

Going to be honest, I'm feeling some serious arc fatigue right now, and I'm hankering for the next 'big' storyline. These diversions, while entirely welcome, have been going on too long, in my opinion, and it's kind of wearing.

Now that Thunderclash has joined up, here's hoping for some forward motion.

Nice little character moments sprinkled throughout, particularly Nightbeat and Nautica, who are clearly Roberts' new darlings. Nice (albeit brief) showing from Ravage, too.

Velocity could be a welcome addition. Perfect timing, though. She's being bought on just in time for First Aid to take part in that Combiner Wars nonsense.


And I'm off. Back whenever.

inflatable dalek
2015-06-24, 08:05 PM
So Velocity will be taking over as the ship's doctor when First Aid goes off to be a leg then?

I really enjoyed that, played its silly concept well and the two parter was a nice self contained bit of madness. Plus, proper detectoring for Nightbeat!

Though if I were to be critical it didn't quite work as a fair play mystery as there was no way the reader could work out the signifigance of Flamestar's flame in advance.

On the other hand though, the misdirection over making it look as if she was the villain and the bait and switch reveal was handled perfectly.

Awww, Cyclonus.

I'm not sure the story was complicated enough to need a two page recap (though presumably as per usual it didn't eat into the regular page count?), and it likely won't be remembered as one of the greats, but it I got a big kick out of it.

@Terome: Was Swerve supposed to be Quantum Leaping at the end? Though obviously the "Oh boy" was a nod I thought something mysterious was happening to make his hands insubstantial? If that was supposed to be the gag the visuals didn't pull it off.

EDIT: Is it me, or did it look as if Thunderclash didn't get a choice about joining the Lost Light?

Death's Head
2015-06-24, 08:52 PM
I enjoyed it. Made me feel all nice inside. To see the likes of the Smiths and Saint Etienne namechecked in an official Transformers comic blows my mind. As, indeed, does the use of the word 'arse'

Red Dave Prime
2015-06-24, 09:00 PM
I'm in the alright camp. Last issue was fine but this issue felt a bit all over the shop in what was going down and ultimately the whole thing feels like filler that feeds into bigger stories. Nothing wrong with that as such but it still didnt really entertain me. Also, the design of the aliens made things hard to follow at points and really didnt help the plot, for me anyway.

The swerve thing at the end? I get the impression thats more than a visual gag (and judging by a future cover its possible that swerve is heading to his very own rimmerworld)

Thunderclash aboard the lost light seems like we've added another massive ego in between Megs and Rodimus but given the Tarn army heading their way, maybe its a bit of balancing.

Hope First Aid isnt gone for good. There's been a certain low-key bitterness to him of late which I enjoy (or at least, thats how I'm reading him.

Terome
2015-06-24, 09:03 PM
I'm softening. There's nothing wrong with the story that four extra pages couldn't fix. And I do like how Nightbeat is undercut again.

Red Dave Prime
2015-06-24, 10:22 PM
I do think MTMTE needs these kind of issues - a couple of small 2 parters and one shots allow stuff to build a better. Its one of the things I really liked about the early issues. I dont feel this quite worked but the benefit is that we get a main plot and then the side plots can go ahead. The last few stories have really been quite big so I'm all for this kind of story.



just would have liked something a bit better

Selkadoom
2015-06-24, 10:36 PM
I do think MTMTE needs these kind of issues - a couple of small 2 parters and one shots allow stuff to build a better. Its one of the things I really liked about the early issues. I dont feel this quite worked but the benefit is that we get a main plot and then the side plots can go ahead. The last few stories have really been quite big so I'm all for this kind of story.



just would have liked something a bit better

Considering the utter shitshow that was CW this comes off almost as a palette cleanser of sprts. Sure it wasn't the greatest or most complicated little story but I enjoyed it. Though honestly the Thunderclash memorial cover still makes me snicker.

Warcry
2015-06-25, 05:01 PM
Really don't have much to say about this issue...it just didn't make much of an impression on me either way.

This wasn't terribly well done but it was enjoyable. Those two missing pages could have really made all the difference. I was struggling to make out some of the action and the punchline with Megatron and Rodimus was completely lost on me.
Too true. The issue felt a little rushed and a couple more pages would have really helped in that regard.

I totally expected a silly "Rodimus shows up and the monsters die" ending as soon as Nightbeat identified what the monsters were, though.

I said it in the last issue but the overt and repeated Earth culture name-dropping isn't entirely welcome. The leaking of the MTMTE Playlists, which I really enjoy, into the comic is a bit uneasy.
It seems very difficult for me to believe that any of the LL crew would have positive memories of Earth, other than maybe Ratchet (who's not there right now). For everyone else, surely Earth would be "that hellhole where we got stomped into the ground after Sunstreaker betrayed us, then spent several years being hunted down by humans"? And that's for the small number who've been there at all.

Though if I were to be critical it didn't quite work as a fair play mystery as there was no way the reader could work out the signifigance of Flamestar's flame in advance.
That was probably my biggest peeve with the issue as well. A detective story where the detective knows things that the reader doesn't do a very good job of impressing you with the detective's cunning, but does manage to annoy the reader something fierce. Since the issue did its best to make Nightbeat look silly, though, I'm assuming that was on purpose.

EDIT: Is it me, or did it look as if Thunderclash didn't get a choice about joining the Lost Light?
Maybe his (actual) XO made the call for him? It seems like his entire crew sans the Camiens came aboard, since his ship was free for the taking when Firestar wanted a ride home.

[EDIT] Also, found it mildly amusing that Skids the thoroughly unlikeable Mary Sue and Getaway the slimy creep are apparently the two most charismatic members of the Lost Light's crew left aboard Thunderclash's ship.

Terome
2015-06-25, 07:48 PM
It seems very difficult for me to believe that any of the LL crew would have positive memories of Earth, other than maybe Ratchet (who's not there right now). For everyone else, surely Earth would be "that hellhole where we got stomped into the ground after Sunstreaker betrayed us, then spent several years being hunted down by humans"? And that's for the small number who've been there at all.

Yeah, it doesn't add up. There's a core of MTMTE that lives in the Sunbow Season 3 world and I can totally get the Ark crew and friends becoming naturalised to Earth but man, Blaster and Swerve never even went there. Do they all hold Bluestreak's opinion in such high regard?

It's just about excusable by the theory of alien contact that I believe I heard off of Dan Ackroyd - that Earth simply has the best artistic output in the civilised galaxy. Seeing that we tend to see theme planets and run-down Star Wars spaceports, that may well be the case. The closest thing we saw to Earth was Nebulos and Thunderwing nicked the atmosphere.

But when you get right down to it it's a cheap laugh.

Since the issue did its best to make Nightbeat look silly, though, I'm assuming that was on purpose.

Nightbeat got a right thrashing here. Notice how the space barnacles avoided him like the plague?

Also, found it mildly amusing that Skids the thoroughly unlikeable Mary Sue and Getaway the slimy creep are apparently the two most charismatic members of the Lost Light's crew left aboard Thunderclash's ship.

Getaway is a sleaze but he is good at winning people over. Skids does make what looks like a sincere effort when talking to Nautica and he made friends with Rung quite quickly. I know he's a superninja but what makes him unlikeable?

Maybe his (actual) XO made the call for him? It seems like his entire crew sans the Camiens came aboard, since his ship was free for the taking when Firestar wanted a ride home.

It is a bit confusing. Apart from Nautica's chums, who else was even on the Vis Vitalis?

Terome
2015-06-25, 07:59 PM
@Terome: Was Swerve supposed to be Quantum Leaping at the end? Though obviously the "Oh boy" was a nod I thought something mysterious was happening to make his hands insubstantial? If that was supposed to be the gag the visuals didn't pull it off.


Yes, especially as Leaping doesn't work that way and Beckett-inhabiting-Swerve would be replaced by Real Swerve from the waiting room. I think that it's not supposed to be a complete non sequitur and that Swerve really is disappearing, possibly to go chat to Ore (or was it Shock) some more? He just made the reference because he had just been watching Quantum Leap and he is Wacky Old Swerve.

Have to say, some of Cliffjumper's comical hyperbole is coming true. Not just on Swerve - Thunderclash wasn't really dead and now gets to hang around in the background with Smokescreen.

It's an interesting problem. Dramatically, they'll have to kill or get rid of Thunderclash as quickly as possible or else he'll hog the spotlight. But when we've already seen everyone mourn him and lay flowers at his grave, how will that pan out?

Maybe they'll just drop him off on Luna-1. That seems like his sort of place.

Unicron
2015-06-25, 08:18 PM
Clearly Thunders knows Megatron is on the LL, since he showed up with Rodders, but does he know Megs is one of the Captains yet? I'm wanting to see him find out, completely lose his cool and attack Megs only to have Rodimus and crew have to hold him back and knock some sense into him

Red Dave Prime
2015-06-25, 10:47 PM
It's just about excusable by the theory of alien contact that I believe I heard off of Dan Ackroyd - that Earth simply has the best artistic output in the civilised galaxy. Seeing that we tend to see theme planets and run-down Star Wars spaceports, that may well be the case. The closest thing we saw to Earth was Nebulos and Thunderwing nicked the atmosphere.

But when you get right down to it it's a cheap laugh.


I think yes and yes. Some cybertronians clearly are impressed by earth culture and its own fast transforming vibe. Also, as you say, the other races feel very one dimensional. While that's probably just the side effect of writing, I've always felt its made every planet shown in the comic feel more like a small village.

Theres also the thought that IDWs writers maybe want Earth to be important and different to near every other planet out there. It helps explain the TFs keep returning to it.

As for Thunderclash, I think he needs to be front and centre for a bit. He can be the catalyst to get the Lost Light truly and properly back on track. And I'm taking the bet that when Tarn and the boys attack, Thunderclash will be one of the first dramatic casualties.

Although knowing Roberts its entirely possible that Thunderclash will be exposed as being not "all that" after all - wouldn't put it beyond him.

Though honestly the Thunderclash memorial cover still makes me snicker.

Only realised its Thunderclash himself gawking up at the memorial the other day.

Selkadoom
2015-06-26, 02:26 AM
As for Thunderclash, I think he needs to be front and centre for a bit. He can be the catalyst to get the Lost Light truly and properly back on track. And I'm taking the bet that when Tarn and the boys attack, Thunderclash will be one of the first dramatic casualties.

Although knowing Roberts its entirely possible that Thunderclash will be exposed as being not "all that" after all - wouldn't put it beyond him.



Only realised its Thunderclash himself gawking up at the memorial the other day.

Oh but what if it turns out Thunderclash is Secretly Roller and Tarn secretly Thunderclash and its up to Swerve Bakula to help them!

inflatable dalek
2015-06-26, 02:02 PM
It seems very difficult for me to believe that any of the LL crew would have positive memories of Earth, other than maybe Ratchet (who's not there right now). For everyone else, surely Earth would be "that hellhole where we got stomped into the ground after Sunstreaker betrayed us, then spent several years being hunted down by humans"? And that's for the small number who've been there at all.

It's not completely outside the realms of possibility. World War II toys and memorabilia were huge business in the UK for the children of those who fought in the conflict (the reason the "Action Man" outlasted his American originator is because playing killing Germans was considered perfectly fine in 1970's Britain in a way that just being a soldier wasn't in the States post-Vietnam), despite the war itself not generally being regarded as a great time, even for the winners.

I think the problem is we need to see the Transformers have as much interest in the culture of other planets (just a mention of another theme night would do it, I don't expect Roberts to invent an entire social environment for a disco), and to have some of the regulars not give a toss about human society.

though with that last part, I suppose the issue is so many of the Transformers basic personalities are taken from stock human fiction tropes (or indeed, based on very specific characters in the case of those like Nightbeat) that of course they're all going to love Earth culture. They're ripped from its DNA.

On alien planets in general... There is a tendancy in science fiction to treat alien planets as mono-cultures. One of my favourite early Babylon 5 episodes actually did the rare thing of acknowledging this despite trying a lot harder than most to display diversity in its cultures (the Minbari have three times as many religions as the Klingons have managed in 50 years. Making for a total of three. Even if the splitting of Minbari society into three was down to a time traveling human doing a Brainstorm).

I think IDW haven't been too bad on that, mainly because we've barely seen anything of any other alien planets beyond, as mentioned, their space ports (and aren't all airports the same?). I think Nebulos is the second most explored non-Transformers world after Earth and I don't think we've seen that since Spotlight Magnus.


That was probably my biggest peeve with the issue as well. A detective story where the detective knows things that the reader doesn't do a very good job of impressing you with the detective's cunning, but does manage to annoy the reader something fierce. Since the issue did its best to make Nightbeat look silly, though, I'm assuming that was on purpose.

The wiki entry reminded me that her flame having changed was pointed out by Nautica last issue so it wasn't quite as out of nowhere as I thought, but it's still a bit rubbish. It puts me in mind of the otherwise very good Mummy on the Orient Express episode of Who where the central mystery of why it took the mummy 65 seconds to kill people was explained by a bit on nonsense technobabble that came from nowhere.



[EDIT] Also, found it mildly amusing that Skids the thoroughly unlikeable Mary Sue and Getaway the slimy creep are apparently the two most charismatic members of the Lost Light's crew left aboard Thunderclash's ship.

Charisma doesn't mean "Warcry likes them" ;)

Roberts weighs in with his response to some critiscm over having the bulk of the new female character go instantly away. As that's not been mentioned here, I only post it because one of the reasons for sending them off was because he'd have nothing for them to do but be background extras before the end of season 2. Which implies Thundercrash (and the new doc) will be doing more than hanging around with Gears: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1smqlij

Considering he still seemed to be unconscious at the end though I wouldn't be surprised if Clash doesn't wake up until he's needed.

Heinrad
2015-06-27, 11:31 AM
A fun romp with a bit of a silly monster. And Nightbeat getting taken down a peg or two. And Ravage just.... being Ravage.

Although as I was reading it, as both Skids and Getaway got weaker, all I could think was "Skids? Charismatic? SKIDS?!?!", but I've got no clue as to his previous history here. Well, other than Warcry not liking him.

Part of me is wondering what Nightbeat might well be wondering right now: Are the three Generibots actual crew members, or another case of those 'Personality Ticks' taking on a role to keep from losing their food supply? The Lost Light might be full of misfits, but there's a lot of charisma there. A much gentler feeding program could keep them fed for millennia.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-06-27, 02:25 PM
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1smqlij

There's no male equivalent of Spinister, apparently. Well, we do need some more female Cons. ;)

This story was a bit weak, I thought. I liked Ravage, Skids, First Aid, Cyclonus & Thunderclash in this one, but overall will be glad to move onward (and hopefully upward). Please can we drop the Earth references though? Really.

Warcry
2015-06-27, 02:48 PM
Yeah, it doesn't add up. There's a core of MTMTE that lives in the Sunbow Season 3 world and I can totally get the Ark crew and friends becoming naturalised to Earth but man, Blaster and Swerve never even went there. Do they all hold Bluestreak's opinion in such high regard?
Roberts is probably inspired more by the most-movie UK books than the cartoon, given his origins, but I think you more or less hit the nail on the head with this. MTMTE seems to draw as much inspiration from the 80s fiction as it does the actual IDW universe.

It would probably be a bigger issue if the bulk of the non-Roberts IDW output wasn't terrible, though. As-is, we seem to be mostly happy enough to ignore the previous/concurrent series anyway.

Getaway is a sleaze but he is good at winning people over. Skids does make what looks like a sincere effort when talking to Nautica and he made friends with Rung quite quickly. I know he's a superninja but what makes him unlikeable?
Because he's good at everything even if he doesn't want to be. He's a warrior, a scientist, a diplomat, a spy, etc, etc, and he's perfect at all of them. And he's super-brave, willing to tell off Megatron to his face! And everyone loves him! And he can fix Rung with just a couple words when all other efforts fail!

Seriously, am I the only one who finds it incredibly grating that the story is constantly telling us how perfect he is and that we should love him?

And the fact that we got this badly-conceived jackass instead of daydreamer anthropologist Skids makes it more annoying. If Roberts had attached this personality to Hubcap or Searchlight or Pointblank or anyone else who's never been used as anything more than a crowd-filler, I'd probably be a lot more accepting. But Skids was actually a likeable character at one point and Roberts has made it all but impossible for that Skids to ever show up.

Although knowing Roberts its entirely possible that Thunderclash will be exposed as being not "all that" after all - wouldn't put it beyond him.
"He's so great and everyone loves him!" really doesn't work outside of a throwaway gag (hence why Skids sucks), so I think it's safe to say we'll start seeing some more depth to Thunderclash in the future. Well, assuming he sticks around and doesn't wind up getting killed off anticlimactically like Dai Atlas did as soon as they got together with him.

On alien planets in general... There is a tendancy in science fiction to treat alien planets as mono-cultures. One of my favourite early Babylon 5 episodes actually did the rare thing of acknowledging this despite trying a lot harder than most to display diversity in its cultures (the Minbari have three times as many religions as the Klingons have managed in 50 years. Making for a total of three. Even if the splitting of Minbari society into three was down to a time traveling human doing a Brainstorm).
I know that's a common complaint in sci-fi, but I've always thought it was a realistic consequence of a unified (or even quasi-unified) world with a strong global communications infrastructure that's been around for centuries. When you get right down to it, the reason why there are so many diverse cultures on Earth right now is that different groups couldn't communicate with each other, so we drifted apart from a common origin over tens of thousands of years. But the printing press quickly spurred on the growth and strengthening of national identities. And as things like radio and TV came on the scene, cultural output was able to reach more and more people across the globe.

And now we've got the internet, and people from every continent can come together in one place and argue about Transformers comics written by a Brit, drawn by a Canadian, coloured by a Portuguese woman and published by a US company. Culture -- or at least popular culture -- is already becoming a global thing. And it's happening fast. Imagine what the world will be like a couple hundred years from now.

I don't think our unique cultures will ever completely disappear, but I certainly do think that global culture will be a strong enough influence everywhere that outsiders might not be able to tell the difference.

Charisma doesn't mean "Warcry likes them" ;)
No, that's true. But shouldn't I at least be able to tell why the characters do? I mean, I think MTMTE Rodimus is a shallow caricature based on all the dismissive things that hardcore 84/85 only GEEWUN fanboys say about the guy, and I don't like him at all, but in spite of that he's still got a sort of magnetism and I can understand why so many Autobots want to follow him. The same goes for Megatron. He's a monster, and everyone knows he's a monster, but he's a very convincing monster and it's completely understandable when even the likes of Ultra Magnus seem to be falling for his charms. But Getaway has been a creep from the first "bomp" and Skids is the guy from every hackneyed high school movie who was super-good at sports and aced all his classes without studying because he was too busy volunteering to make dinner for old people and had all the girls after him and was every teacher's favourite. I don't see how it's even possible to like either of them because to me it seems like they're both written to be as unlikeable as possible.

Denyer
2015-06-27, 04:10 PM
I can just about buy "charisma" draining aliens, but calling them Personality Ticks and lampshading the silliness of the concept doesn't help. It actually makes the culture and politics of Velocitron being based on competitions (as presented by the comic formerly known as RID) look relatively three-dimensional.

We've jumped full-on into fanfic territory with that, the playlist entries, boatload of new characters, big bad turned good, etc. Roberts is one of the few writers that can pull it off, but the emohawk-inspired threat of the week didn't ground things enough, IMO.

I think the problem is we need to see the Transformers have as much interest in the culture of other planets (just a mention of another theme night would do it, I don't expect Roberts to invent an entire social environment for a disco), and to have some of the regulars not give a toss about human society.
Yes.

inflatable dalek
2015-06-27, 05:30 PM
Roberts is probably inspired more by the most-movie UK books than the cartoon, given his origins, but I think you more or less hit the nail on the head with this. MTMTE seems to draw as much inspiration from the 80s fiction as it does the actual IDW universe.

It would probably be a bigger issue if the bulk of the non-Roberts IDW output wasn't terrible, though. As-is, we seem to be mostly happy enough to ignore the previous/concurrent series anyway.

I also get the feeling that perhaps Roberts has become a bit bored of writing robots that are completely devoid from Earth frame of reference and having to jump through small hoops to make them work and has just thought "Sod it, they all love Earth now and I can just namecheck whatever the hell I like".

The big conceit of course is that will thousands of years of human culture to chose from, everyone aboard seems to have latched onto the things a British guy who grew up in the 1980's would have liked. I mean, I've never heard of some of the bands namechecked here so they're probably a bit obscure/forgotten even if you are part of that demographic.


I know that's a common complaint in sci-fi, but I've always thought it was a realistic consequence of a unified (or even quasi-unified) world with a strong global communications infrastructure that's been around for centuries. When you get right down to it, the reason why there are so many diverse cultures on Earth right now is that different groups couldn't communicate with each other, so we drifted apart from a common origin over tens of thousands of years. But the printing press quickly spurred on the growth and strengthening of national identities. And as things like radio and TV came on the scene, cultural output was able to reach more and more people across the globe.

I'm going off on a real tangent here, but what works against that argument is that Earth-- no matter how long the planet has been unified within the fiction-- is always portrayed as being as full of diverse cultures as ever it was (though understandably with an unrealistic focus on the culture making the show/film/book). The closest attempt at realism on meshing the world together on TV is probably the complete and utter subjugation of the French national identity by the British in The Next Generation.

As you say, the general mish mash is almost certainly going to happen in real life though.

Ohhh, Ringworld (and presumably Niven's other books set in the same Universe) actually pulls it off well, opening with Louis Wu teleporting around the planet and bemoaning how everything has become the same dull city.


No, that's true. But shouldn't I at least be able to tell why the characters do? I mean, I think MTMTE Rodimus is a shallow caricature based on all the dismissive things that hardcore 84/85 only GEEWUN fanboys say about the guy, and I don't like him at all, but in spite of that he's still got a sort of magnetism and I can understand why so many Autobots want to follow him. The same goes for Megatron. He's a monster, and everyone knows he's a monster, but he's a very convincing monster and it's completely understandable when even the likes of Ultra Magnus seem to be falling for his charms. But Getaway has been a creep from the first "bomp" and Skids is the guy from every hackneyed high school movie who was super-good at sports and aced all his classes without studying because he was too busy volunteering to make dinner for old people and had all the girls after him and was every teacher's favourite. I don't see how it's even possible to like either of them because to me it seems like they're both written to be as unlikeable as possible.

Getaway pretty much has to be charming, that sort of manipulative bastard always is. We get a different perspective on him because we see more of the bigger picture than the characters do. Skids is clearly well liked by the other characters, so it really is just you ;)

I can just about buy "charisma" draining aliens, but calling them Personality Ticks and lampshading the silliness of the concept doesn't help. It actually makes the culture and politics of Velocitron being based on competitions (as presented by the comic formerly known as RID) look relatively three-dimensional.

If you don't like personality ticks be grateful someone only suggested Rodimus was a "Deus ex charisma" to Roberts after the issue had already come out.

Emohawk! I knew it was an episode with a strong Red Dwarf vibe (inevitably with Ace Thunderclash I suppose), but for some reason I was thinking of the one with Rimmer on the Id moon.


EDIT: And 3 on the UK comixology chart once more, not bad considering it seemed to sneak out (even Roberts didn't know it was out this week until Chris McFeely pointed out to him that his comic shop had been invoiced for it a couple of days beforehand).

Auntie Slag
2015-06-28, 05:58 PM
I thought this was a great issue and totally agree with Death’s Head’s thoughts. It was smart, funny and likeable. In contrast to Warcry I love Skids, partly because he’s the ultimate weapon, but also because he has the most shocking, possibly soul destroying past that Chromedome is reluctant to reveal to him (after reading his mind back in issue 6). This means that Skids is great, but is due at some point to be utterly broken.

Really liked his moments with Nautica, and that’s made me finally warm to the latter for the first time (Rung apart, I tend to think of new robot characters as interlopers in the old Transformer world and begrudge them), but she’s clicking with me now. Really appreciated Robert’s long reply to a forum poster in the link that Dalek put up in this thread.

Lots of thing to love:

- Skids and Nautica dancing like Patrick Swayze and Jennifer Grey.

- Calling out the absurdities of certain cultural aspects; the pressure of finding a significant other before a certain age. I visited a country where this was so depressingly true.

- Lotty coming in to replace First Aid. Honestly, the moment someone is given a casual nickname I fall in love with them; Rodders, Lotty… I’m no fan of Thunderclash, but if they start referring to him as ‘The Clash’ then i’ll be in tears if Tarn takes him apart.

- The Britishness of the crew: “Come on, chaps”, “Arse” etc.

- Ravage calling out Nightbeat for giving a crisis a name like that’s suppose to solve something in some way.

- “I was colouring in my wall chart” Just superb!

- Rewind’s Usain Bolt dance move & Tailgate being the annoying one at the party who hassles the DJ.

- Skater, Flex & Borer I felt were a comment by Roberts to people’s dislike of concentrating on only a relative few Lost Lighters all this time. The unseen others are up to their own things, often just as exciting, and he’s been clear about that since early on in MTMTE. I read that comment in an article or a tweet somewhere.

And it was also reflected back in Shadowplay when Rewind was getting a group together to help Rung regain consciousness. The group the story centred on was third in Rewind’s list. Roberts must know that most TF readers who see the name Skater referenced must be wondering if this is the same Skater who served under Xaaron in Debris during Target: 2006. Visually it doesn’t appear so, so maybe that’s the answer :-(

Totally loved the fact that they appear in the foreground in Swerve’s just to politely push the point home :-)

More love:

- I also love that Cyclonus has a soft spot for Huey Lewis. I don’t mind at all about all the song references. I was never able to get into Judge Dredd et al because of all their hokey alien culture references, from replacements for swearwords “What a load of Drokk” to the cultural oddities, I much prefer real Earth references.

- And the moment Cyclonus relents, Getaway grabs Tailgate for a dance! I don’t think for a moment that Getaway just happened to do that. He did it as a complete affront to Cyclonus I reckon.

-Rodimus’ comment to Magnus “I made them all collapse just by turning up. Just. By. Turning. Up”, was both hilarious and true, because it reaffirms what Magnus said to Rodimus back in issue 22; that whatever Rodimus has, Magnus doesn’t. At the time Rodimus knew that was garbage, but to see him revel in what he knows if garbage in this issue just makes me like him more, as he’s only teasing Magnus here.

- And the next issue cover of Cyclonus and his avatar, ha!

So this story wasn't really about the monsters at all, and that's good because it felt from last issue like we were getting back into Delphi territory, or Flame's zombies from Marvel UK, so it was great that this struck out into something very different.

Really great stuff all round. To paraphrase Firestar; I thought this issue was on fire! :smokin:

Auntie Slag
2015-06-28, 09:13 PM
I love this comment from Computron over at Transfans about this issue (or MTMTE in general):

I like that we are seeing more of the TFs other than "Mega epic final battle of combiner DOOM"

:)

KingMob
2015-06-29, 01:24 AM
I imagine the DJ at the party is playing Earth tunes because the host of said party just binged on Earth culture, after one of his employees convinced him to watch the entire DVD boxset.

I think on balance I prefer the music choices to be songs that the author identifies with, rather than 'safe' dance tunes or something of the now. I'd much rather reread this in five years and see Transformers listening to Only Love Can Break Your Heart than Uptown Funk. Though it does make me feel a bit weird seeing them dance to songs I used to dance to in ye olde indie clubbes.

Rest of the issue was too Red Dwarf as said above, and too wordy. But that I mean that there were 'physically' too many words for the page layouts. Sometimes brevity really is the soul etc etc.

inflatable dalek
2015-06-29, 01:48 AM
If Roberts was going to go down the '80's British music route he could have at least gone for the stuff that was wildly popular and still get airtime in clubs that plays such period music today (I've seen people say the music selection here would actually make for the worst disco ever and be hard to really get down and shake your funky stuff too. I've no idea how true that is though. I suspect the main demographic the tune selection was aimed at was Skyquake ;) ). A bit of Wham or Duran Duran.

Unicron
2015-06-29, 11:52 AM
Half-assed justification for Cybertronians having a strange like for Earth culture: The Enigma of Combination.

If Blackrock is to be believed in Rid #37, the Enigma is responsible for human civilization. T'would make sense that a Cybertronian influence like that might cause some subtle patterns or themes that Cybertronians unconsciously pick up on and are drawn to.

inflatable dalek
2015-06-29, 01:07 PM
Hey, that actually works! Even if it resulting in a love of St Elmo is pushing it.

I also forgot the token "Still actually played in Reflex" Power of Love.

Denyer
2015-06-29, 04:23 PM
The Enigma of Combination.
I shouldn't have googled that... I feel stupider as a result.

Unicron
2015-06-29, 04:27 PM
I shouldn't have googled that... I feel stupider as a result.

Then my work here is done

Auntie Slag
2015-06-29, 05:07 PM
Unicron is a god!

KingMob
2015-06-29, 05:54 PM
It's not an 80s playlist, it's an indie club playlist. Generic 80s tunes would be just as bad as generic tunes of Right Now. If there have to be songs in the comic that aren't used as direct plot elements then I would rather they be from the author's mixtape than just something utterly boring.

The Engima thing is funny.

Death's Head
2015-06-29, 07:15 PM
Yeah, that was a respectable list of songs there.

Edit: And there was no Divine Comedy, so it's not like you can accuse James of being too self-indulgent.

inflatable dalek
2015-06-29, 07:41 PM
I shouldn't have googled that... I feel stupider as a result.

Unicron broke Denyer everyone! I declare myself the new TFArchive leader!

It's not an 80s playlist, it's an indie club playlist. Generic 80s tunes would be just as bad as generic tunes of Right Now. If there have to be songs in the comic that aren't used as direct plot elements then I would rather they be from the author's mixtape than just something utterly boring.

I don't know, I wouldn't say "Generic" so much as "Actually popular". That's why the similarish situation where it turns out everyone likes Back to the Future worked, it's genuinely one of the most popular and beloved films of all time (has anyone ever met someone who doesn't at least like the first one?). Plus of course, it's just the one film rather than everyone liking Roberts entire DVD collection (the other cinematic references tend to be the domain of one or two characters-- Whil likes Goddard; Bluestreak likes Zulu and so on).

What we have here is an oddly chunky moment where the entire main cast of outer space robot people with access to the entirity of human culture (perhaps if there hadn't been that line last issue it would make more sense, instead just have it be that Bluestreak grabbed a selection of recent culture. This isn't just saying Roberts has the best taste of his generation, it's saying he has the best taste of the whole of history!) just happens to really enjoy the same relatively- and note that word- obscure music the author likes.

Despite them having been thrown together by chance rather than, say, it being a comic about an indie music fan club.

With even the characters on whom the plot depends on not being that social still turning up to tap their feet because it's that good.

That's oddly chunky for an author who has been pretty good at spreading his own likes and interests amidst the entire cast in a fairly subtle way (Pax is an ex-cop like Roberts [at least according to the script for Chaos Theory] probably being the Prime example).

Plus, even if it is just down to Swerve's choice, he is the least indie person ever. He'd put Kylie on.


Edit: And there was no Divine Comedy, so it's not like you can accuse James of being too self-indulgent.

Though if, as the cover suggests, we'll be seeing the avatars next month the t-shirt may be making a reappearance.

Unicron
2015-06-29, 09:02 PM
Unicron is a god!

Oh hell, what did I do this time?

KingMob
2015-06-29, 11:58 PM
I don't know, I wouldn't say "Generic" so much as "Actually popular".
I do not like your alternate functionist reality where The Smiths are not actually popular.

The Transformers are having an indie night. That's characterful enough. The only thing that could be better is if Blaster played Taylor Swift.

Power of Love is a direct plot element. They rest may become important, a la The Singles Club. Doubt it tho. Though if you want to hark back to the film refs, perhaps this scene establishes that Domey and Rewind like Belle and Sebastian's new direction? It's not like they're meaningless.

For whatever reason they're having an indie night. That's cute. I think there's some slight searching going on with it. There are a couple of problems with this issue (and 2-parter as a whole) that are more vexing, I would say.

If people don't like indie, that's cool. I'm not entirely sure that a reading of this scene as saying 'this is the greatest music in human history and you should feel bad if you don't feel in on it, man' is being entirely fair.
It's clearly the greatest music in galactic history. And you should feel just terrible.
Plus, even if it is just down to Swerve's choice, he is the least indie person ever. He'd put Kylie on.
There is no way that 'Where The Wild Roses Grow' didn't get played.

Death's Head
2015-06-30, 12:13 AM
I do not like your alternate functionist reality where The Smiths are not actually popular.

:)

There is no way that 'Where The Wild Roses Grow' didn't get played.

Yes.

I was just overjoyed to see Saint Etienne namechecked in an official Transformers comic. I might have wet myself a little.

Death's Head
2015-06-30, 12:20 AM
Actually, all this reminds me that back in the TMUK days a few of us got into the habit of using Manics' songs as our story titles, many years before Phonogram made me go back and listen to Generation Terrorists again.

inflatable dalek
2015-06-30, 06:47 AM
I do not like your alternate functionist reality where The Smiths are not actually popular.

There was a "Relatively" in there further down the post though. Did the Smith's get a namecheck? The wiki doesn't list them amongst the music.

Of the band's it does list, Dexy's are the only ones I've heard of, and I don't beleive I've ever knowingly heard any of the songs mentioned (IIRC Dexy's third best remembered song in pub conversations with those old enough to remember them at their pomp is mainly remembered because it was sang on Top of the Pops in front of a giant picture of a darts player for no readily apparent reason. Probably one of the nicer moments of odd behaviour by people working on Top of the Pops though). I'm not that much younger than Roberts and haven't lived under a rock all my life, if I don't even recognise the band name I'm going to go with relatively obscure. Or at least faded into obscurity.

And let's not forget, the choice of song and genre isn't just picked from British culture, or the last thirty years of general culture. This indie stuff is picked for a night of partying enjoyed by the entire cast from All Human Culture. That is really pushing it.

Considering there's no limits on licensing or having to compose special tunes, it would have been just as easy to make it a general disco. Bit of opera for Cyclonus, some made up titles of Cybertronian/Other aliens stuff. It would have worked just as well and felt less forced.

When was the last time any of their group social activities didn't resolve around a bit of Earth culture? The most recent that comes to mind is Rewind showing the Protus Promise film, but that was ages ago and I'm sure there must have been more since then, even if it has been far too thin on the ground. Did OLL Crosscut ever actually get to put his play on?


If people don't like indie, that's cool. I'm not entirely sure that a reading of this scene as saying 'this is the greatest music in human history and you should feel bad if you don't feel in on it, man' is being entirely fair.
It's clearly the greatest music in galactic history. And you should feel just terrible.

Oh, I'm certainly not dissing on the genre itself, as mentioned I don't know any of these songs so their quality isn't something I can comment on. They may well be that good, but it doesn't stop it being very self indulgent. For the folks who thought the comic suffered from missing the recently axed extra two pages: Would you rather than lost (or at least trimmed) this to make some extra room for the plot to flow better?

It actually reminds me of Vic Fontain in Deep Space Nine. Ira Steven Behr randomly decides he's a bit bored of just doing Space stuff and really like Rat Pack era music so makes a non-copyright infringing Sinatra hologram a semi-regular character. And it turns out nearly every single character (Sisko at least had some- albeit oddly phrased- sense. For three quarters of an episode. Then he decided he loved Vic as well) absolutely ****ing loved 50's jazz/swing as well. Regardless of culture, species or even if they'd shown the slightest interest in any Earth culture before (Cyclonus Worf was raised on Earth but never showed a love for anything but Klingon opera and myths before, now the minute his wife dies it's time for some swing).

The end result being at least three episodes all about Vic plus various subplots and lots of singing of standards. In The One Where Nog Gets His Leg Blown Off it even turns out that shell-shocked soldiers on the front line love a bit of Vic.

Now, I really like that sort of music myself so I could at least enjoy the singing (Avery Brooks actually did a mean The Best is yet to Come), but it was wildly, hugely, self indulgent. Especially when about ten minutes of a final that had to do an awful lot of wrapping up as it was was given over to crooning.

This certainly isn't that bad, but it has been brewing for a while and could go that way if Roberts doesn't rein in the "Hey, the characters love what I love!" stuff. If this turns out to be the peak of it, that will probably make it a scene I look back on more fondly in retrospect.

Oh God, I've gone all Warcry. I did like virtually the whole issue!

There is no way that 'Where The Wild Roses Grow' didn't get played.

I've heard of that one!

EDIT: Thinking about it, a music event isn't a terribly good setting for a comic anyway really is it? You have to go listen to the songs separately on YouTube rather than feeling whatever mood they're trying to convey as the drama is happening.

KingMob
2015-07-01, 12:15 PM
I was just overjoyed to see Saint Etienne namechecked in an official Transformers comic.
Ditto. Fun.
post
How Soon Is Now is played, yes.
I'm sorry you didn't like the indie tunes and would have preferred something different.
You should consider reading a comic called Phonogram. The second series/TPB, The Singles Club, is more accessible if you weren't into Britpop.

Auntie Slag
2015-07-01, 01:25 PM
Actually, all this reminds me that back in the TMUK days a few of us got into the habit of using Manics' songs as our story titles, many years before Phonogram made me go back and listen to Generation Terrorists again.

Phonogram? It was Columbia wasn't it (or have Phonogram taken them over?)

inflatable dalek
2015-07-01, 07:41 PM
How Soon Is Now is played, yes.
I'm sorry you didn't like the indie tunes and would have preferred something different.
You should consider reading a comic called Phonogram. The second series/TPB, The Singles Club, is more accessible if you weren't into Britpop.

Fair enough-- but I think you're getting a bit hung up on the choice of music. The choice of songs is basically irrelevant to my POV (especially in a mute medium), if Roberts had used the scene to convey his love of [random choice] Hammond organ music I'd feel the same. It's the scene itself and the indulgence of it I have a problem with.

Phonogram? It was Columbia wasn't it (or have Phonogram taken them over?)

As Mob mentions, it's a comic. According to Terome (when we were having one of our private Warcry baiting chats), his claim to fame is he once spoke to the author.

Death's Head
2015-07-01, 08:10 PM
It's by Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie. McKelvie draws possibly the most beautiful, stylish people in the world and Kieron Gillen is known for, among other things, bringing back Death's Head (http://www.newsarama.com/18988-deaths-head-is-cool-yes-marvels-uk-import-poised-for-push.html) when he was over at Marvel (http://itcamefromdarkmoor.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/more-details-on-deaths-head-in-kieron.html) (and further confusing Death's Head's timeline!)

Denyer
2015-07-01, 08:47 PM
If you're coming to it cold, starting with the Singles Club might be a better entry point.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Phonogram-Volume-The-Singles-Club/dp/1607061791

KingMob
2015-07-02, 03:39 AM
I think you're getting a bit hung up on the choice of music.
Heh, nah.
The Singles Club might very well be on my personal top 10, though.
I'm not sure when it was...before the end of MTMTE season 1 at any rate...I emailed Gillen to ask him if he was reading it, coz it's basically completely up his street, and he said he wasn't but that a few people had recommended it to him and he was planning to. I hope he did. I think he and Roberts would enjoy a good natter with each other, if one is allowed to guess at such things.

Auntie Slag
2015-07-02, 07:38 PM
I love the fact that a little robot on my desk may have a thing for Saint Etienne. Part of the mystique of Transformers in the first place was that they had little quirks on their tech specs. Made them more personable, like real little characters; snobby homesick Mirage, funtime Ratchet, anal Prowl... so if Swerve digs Lazy Line Painter Jane then I'm happy inside.

There's precedent too in that Jazz was listening to Madonna's Material Girl back in the early Marvel comics. So if Magnus likes Kraftwerk then so be it (and music was revealed to be a great love of his, wasn't it?)

inflatable dalek
2015-07-02, 07:59 PM
The Madonna bit with Jazz is actually really bizarre in context, up to that point he's been a terrifying presence: Causing heart attacks and stalking small boys. Then he's suddenly cool and down with da kids and talking like he's played by the nice black man from The Shining.

Auntie Slag
2015-07-02, 08:13 PM
I always put the heart-attack thing down to none of the Transformers really understanding human biology at the time. And I never really thought of it as stalking/spooky, because of the larger plan behind it. Grab the kid who knows the info on the mysterious Man of Iron.

Also (and this was just my guess at the time), I reckoned that all the Autobots were in on it and Jazz was just the guy tasked with picking him up. He was Bond to Prime's M as per the tech specs.

Likewise when it came to Madonna that felt natural per the tech specs saying he loves Earth culture.

I found Mirage far spookier. That bit where he peers in through the bedroom window, then walks silently away. Great scene though, really gave TF's a solidity in the real world, you could picture it happening outside your own bit of suburbia.

Terome
2015-07-02, 09:09 PM
As Mob mentions, it's a comic. According to Terome (when we were having one of our private Warcry baiting chats), his claim to fame is he once spoke to the author.

It's true, words were once exchanged long ago. It was McKelvie though, not Gillen.

I've thought long and hard about the indie disco scene and I find I don't really mind it that much. People will be bringing it up in a decade in the same sort of tone as the Jazz/Madonna thing. Phonogram is definitely a big influence on Roberts (or he and the Phonogram team both draw from the same well) and he's not shy about wearing those on his sleeve so this pretty much had to happen...

inflatable dalek
2015-07-03, 03:03 PM
It's true, words were once exchanged long ago. It was McKelvie though, not Gillen.

Well, now I've lost all respect for you.

One thing I did like that's basically been lost since the start of season 2 is the idea that the crew is full of little groups of characters having their own adventures off-page, the idea of Skater and company sorting everything out before Nightbeat was nicely handled.

Warcry
2015-07-03, 05:13 PM
The big conceit of course is that will thousands of years of human culture to chose from, everyone aboard seems to have latched onto the things a British guy who grew up in the 1980's would have liked. I mean, I've never heard of some of the bands namechecked here so they're probably a bit obscure/forgotten even if you are part of that demographic.
I don't find that bit too bothersome. Obviously the writer is going to run with what he knows, at least in a relatively throwaway context like this. The fact that they're listening to Earth music at all is way more jarring to me than the fact that the music they've chosen is obscure hipster nonsense.

I'm going off on a real tangent here, but what works against that argument is that Earth-- no matter how long the planet has been unified within the fiction-- is always portrayed as being as full of diverse cultures as ever it was (though understandably with an unrealistic focus on the culture making the show/film/book). The closest attempt at realism on meshing the world together on TV is probably the complete and utter subjugation of the French national identity by the British in The Next Generation.
Actually, I think TNG is a better example than you're giving it credit for. Aside from designated fish-out-of-water Data, the Enterprise's main crew was an English Frenchman, an Alaskan, a half-Greek, half-telepath raised on an alien world, a doctor born on the moon, her army-brat son, a nerdy black engineer with (given the last name) French roots who grew up in Mogadishu, a Klingon raised by Russians in Minsk, a security guard from Anarchy Planet and an Irish jack-of-all-trades. And yet they all get along just fine and none of them seem to bring any unique cultural traits to the table (from the human side of their heritage anyway). The closest we get is probably the fact that Picard's family owns a vineyard and that he curses in French/sings Frere Jacques a couple times over the course of seven years. In fact they all meshed so well that they needed to bring in Barclay and Ro to contrast with them -- the former due to "hilarious" untreated mental illness (which you'd really think Roddenberry's ultra-progressive hippy utopia would have been more sensitive about...) and the latter because she was an alien whose cultural identity hadn't been subsumed by humanity.

DS9 took a bit of a step back from that, with Sisko being interested in both his American and African heritage and his dad being a proud Creole (though the script treated him like a silly old man for caring about things like that). But even then, 99% of the time the human cast seems to be culturally identical beyond Bashir and O'Brien's accents.

Getaway pretty much has to be charming, that sort of manipulative bastard always is. We get a different perspective on him because we see more of the bigger picture than the characters do. Skids is clearly well liked by the other characters, so it really is just you ;)
Right, but that's the thing -- the characters like them but Getaway especially does almost nothing to actually be likeable. If he put up a suave, affable front most of the time I'd get it, but although he tries he's actually a shallow, transparent jackass when he does so. I've worked with people like him and nobody ever likes them unless they're super naive like Tailgate.

Skids seems like a genuinely decent person if you can get past the fact that he's oh-so-perfect and inherently better than everyone at everything. Clearly I can't -- but that's probably because I know he's a character being written as an author's pet. Maybe it's easier to ignore if you think he's an actual person and not someone else's invention? I guess I can at least sort of understand that, though I still wouldn't call him particularly charismatic by any stretch.

When was the last time any of their group social activities didn't resolve around a bit of Earth culture? The most recent that comes to mind is Rewind showing the Protus Promise film, but that was ages ago and I'm sure there must have been more since then, even if it has been far too thin on the ground. Did OLL Crosscut ever actually get to put his play on?
I don't think he's finished writing it yet. And you're right -- for a series that delves pretty deeply into Cybertronian culture, it really tends to veer away from that when it comes to the characters doing stuff for fun.

Maybe they've just been at war for so long that they've forgotten how to have normal, non-violent recreation? I mean, basically everyone jumped at the chance to beat up Snap Trap's 'Cons a few years back, treating it almost like a nostalgic vacation.

For the folks who thought the comic suffered from missing the recently axed extra two pages: Would you rather than lost (or at least trimmed) this to make some extra room for the plot to flow better?
Absolutely yes, it could have been better spent. Even just one extra page would have made the main plot feel less cramped.

Now, I really like that sort of music myself so I could at least enjoy the singing (Avery Brooks actually did a mean The Best is yet to Come), but it was wildly, hugely, self indulgent. Especially when about ten minutes of a final that had to do an awful lot of wrapping up as it was was given over to crooning.
I actually didn't mind Vic too much, but that was mainly because the series was in its' dying days and was clearly running out of stuff to do with the characters and setting. They had a pretty clear endgame in mind and twice as many episodes as they needed to get there, so there was always going to be a lot of filler. At least the Vic stuff was a break from the generic sci-fi anomaly of the week that Trek usually used in situations like that. They went a bit over the top with it but I didn't mind (at least not at the time...I actually haven't rewatched DS9 properly since it ended so I might be more put out by it now).

Or maybe it's just because Voyager went so much farther over the top with its' holodeck self-indulgent holodeck plots that Vic just looks mild by comparison?

The Madonna bit with Jazz is actually really bizarre in context, up to that point he's been a terrifying presence: Causing heart attacks and stalking small boys. Then he's suddenly cool and down with da kids and talking like he's played by the nice black man from The Shining.
Pretty much everyone underwent a personality transplant once Bob took over and actually started writing them based on their profiles, though. A lot of the character work in early Marvel was very shaky because nobody other than Budiansky and Furman seemed to really have a consistent handle on who the characters were beyond Optimus, Bumblebee, Megatron and sometimes Starscream.

Death's Head
2015-07-04, 09:52 AM
the music they've chosen is obscure hipster nonsense.

:D

I think you'll find most of those songs hit the top 40...

inflatable dalek
2015-07-04, 01:05 PM
:D

I think you'll find most of those songs hit the top 40...

In the UK, it is an American comic book so I think Warcry (OK, he's a Canadian, but that's the same thing, right?) is fair enough to describe it as such. Sort of like if a Yank started writing for Eastenders and made Dot Cotton a massive Leave it to Beaver fan, cries of "But it topped the Nielson's!" wouldn't mean much to Brits going "Wait... what? Beaver? Hey?".

I don't find that bit too bothersome. Obviously the writer is going to run with what he knows, at least in a relatively throwaway context like this. The fact that they're listening to Earth music at all is way more jarring to me than the fact that the music they've chosen is obscure hipster nonsense.

Though I suppose I should jump to the defence of Dexty's as they're the third most successful local band to me after UB40 and Duran Duran.

Though as said, I've never heard of the song namechecked, and it's impressive that of a band with two hits that would stand a good chance of still being played at a disco like this, Roberts managed to pick one that wouldn't. Presumably in order to count as Indie it comes from before the period where they "Sold out" and went mainstream (a chap who left the band before Eileen did the local news rounds promoting his book last year accusing them of having done exactly that. I think it was called "The Damn Stupid Lead Singer, How Dare He Ignore Me And Lead the Band To It's Biggest Success And Sure Geno Might Sound Just As Mainstream To You Fools BUT SHUT UP").


Actually, I think TNG is a better example than you're giving it credit for. Aside from designated fish-out-of-water Data, the Enterprise's main crew was an English Frenchman, an Alaskan, a half-Greek, half-telepath raised on an alien world, a doctor born on the moon, her army-brat son, a nerdy black engineer with (given the last name) French roots who grew up in Mogadishu, a Klingon raised by Russians in Minsk, a security guard from Anarchy Planet and an Irish jack-of-all-trades. And yet they all get along just fine and none of them seem to bring any unique cultural traits to the table (from the human side of their heritage anyway). The closest we get is probably the fact that Picard's family owns a vineyard and that he curses in French/sings Frere Jacques a couple times over the course of seven years. In fact they all meshed so well that they needed to bring in Barclay and Ro to contrast with them -- the former due to "hilarious" untreated mental illness (which you'd really think Roddenberry's ultra-progressive hippy utopia would have been more sensitive about...) and the latter because she was an alien whose cultural identity hadn't been subsumed by humanity.

Don't forget though, a lot of that background detail comes from three seconds of information in Conundrum you have to freeze frame through to read, would McFadden or Burton have even been aware they weren't playing Americans?

Oh, and Sirtis is half Greek, Troi definitely isn't despite that line in season 1 about her having gotten her accent from her Dad (almost as if they were trying to handwave the fact they'd cast the producers wife as her mother despite clearly not sounding like they come from the same place), when he shows up in a dream sequence he's as American as apple pie.

Plus, whatever accent it's supposed to be, it's not Greek (IIRC they just wanted something that would stop the bridge sounding like it was run by Brits) and had almost totally changed to posh UK by the films. Though her drunk cockney in First Contact is as close to her real voice as she ever got.

Of course, the reason they didn't make much play of Meany being Irish is he'd tell them to **** off every time they did (watch Up the Long Ladder from before he had the clout to really say anything, his expression throughout the Planet of the Oirish exploits is hilarious), there's at least a couple of Holodeck Voyager episodes that shows what he was fighting against.

DS9 took a bit of a step back from that, with Sisko being interested in both his American and African heritage and his dad being a proud Creole (though the script treated him like a silly old man for caring about things like that). But even then, 99% of the time the human cast seems to be culturally identical beyond Bashir and O'Brien's accents.

I've seen Sisko get some real flak from people over his attitude in the final Vic Fontain epsiode where he refuses to join in the fun because of 1950's racism, "People aren't supposed to care about that sort of thing anymore by the 24th century!" and "Look at Bashir, he doesn't have a problem with it!" (which ignores the fact that as a British accented person of Indian descent there's unlikely to be slavery/segregation in his history so it wouldn't be a thing for him, not to mention he mentioned a few times history wasn't his thing. More odd is Far Beyond the Stars suggesting Sisko/the writers were confused by the accent into forgetting he wasn't white...).

I didn't have a problem with it, Sisko had already been established as a man who cares deeply about black American history and almost certainly would give a toss about not white-washing the past. What I find bizare is that as someone who knows the history of the period he seems completely oblivious to the fact that, whatever their other flaws, the rat pack were key to ending segregation in Las Vegas by refusing to go in any casino/club that wouldn't let Sammy come in with them. You think he'd be a little friendlier to the idea.

Oh, that and his change of mind seems a bit random.



I actually didn't mind Vic too much, but that was mainly because the series was in its' dying days and was clearly running out of stuff to do with the characters and setting. They had a pretty clear endgame in mind and twice as many episodes as they needed to get there, so there was always going to be a lot of filler. At least the Vic stuff was a break from the generic sci-fi anomaly of the week that Trek usually used in situations like that. They went a bit over the top with it but I didn't mind (at least not at the time...I actually haven't rewatched DS9 properly since it ended so I might be more put out by it now).

I think each of the indervidual episodes is fine and fun by themselves (though if you don't like the music, you're screwed), it's just collectively it gets too much. Nice to see the bloke from The Time Tunnel getting some work though.

Trek generally (and probably still stinging from the memory of The Way to Eden) gets this sort of thing pretty right. Classical music like Beethoven and Mozart have endured for centuries, if people in the future and/or aliens are going to latch on to anything from Earth's past it's going to be that sort of thing (though you have to roll with aliens having any time for Earth culture whatsoever). They're a smarter bet than trying to guess what quasi-contemporary stuff might endure anyway, there you've always got the risk of it looking a bit silly when reread in ten years.



But, as far as a scene in a comic aimed at British people in their 30's who like a group of music that's been mostly forgotten even by other British people in their 30's, it's a great success. ;)

Auntie Slag
2015-07-09, 05:50 PM
Does anyone think Cyclonus may be female, based on his holo-avatar and his pointy robot fingers which are similar to Nautical and other Caminus people?

What is Cyclonus' backstory in the IDW-verse? Is he a normal Cybertronian Transformer with a birth/creation date? I know he spent six-million years in the dead universe.

Does Scourge have his pointy, cartoon pink fingernails in this continuity? Where is Scourge anyway?

inflatable dalek
2015-07-09, 07:05 PM
I hate to break it to you Slag, but Scourge is dead.

Don't ask me how, something to do with Chaos. Read it at your own risk.

Denyer
2015-07-09, 07:05 PM
I remain of the opinion it's basically irrelevant in-universe; the whole practically immortal shapechanging robot thing makes it unlikely they won't adapt and take on cultural aspects of biological species in the right context (and if there isn't a huge war on, and barring spells of particularly purist political leadership). A voice doesn't equal male or female any more than a bodyshell does. Thankfully the writers don't seem to be limiting things like that (I assume the same's true in the comic formerly known as RID...)

Scourge = probably dead, but there was that whole reanimation ore thing.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Scourge_(G1)#IDW_Generation_1_continuity

Auntie Slag
2015-07-09, 07:32 PM
Cheers for the link Denyer. So as long as there's no Scourge being obliterated on panel, its still possible that he might be convalescing somewhere. I hope so, I quite liked Scourge & he only ever had one or two interesting appearances; like when he was hiding in the factory during Target: 2006 and the Autobots and Megatron flushed him out.

Warcry
2015-07-09, 07:48 PM
I think you'll find most of those songs hit the top 40...
Decades ago in one country, yes. That doesn't stop it from being forgotten by all but a small clique nowadays, though. Or do you suppose you'd have a clue what I was talking about if I started to name-drop some of the mildly-popular 80s Canadian country music acts my mom listened to when I was a kid?

I didn't mean it as commentary on the quality of the music, which I've never listened too, only the very small cultural importance it still wields nowadays.

In the UK, it is an American comic book so I think Warcry (OK, he's a Canadian, but that's the same thing, right?)
Whatever you say, Irishman.

Don't forget though, a lot of that background detail comes from three seconds of information in Conundrum you have to freeze frame through to read, would McFadden or Burton have even been aware they weren't playing Americans?
Some of it came up in other places over the years, though not for Crusher or Geordi in particular (who, honestly, are both little more than glorified scenery). But Riker being from Alaska was mentioned in a couple episodes, as were Worf's Russian parents, Wesley's background, etc. Picard's too, obviously.

Oh, and Sirtis is half Greek, Troi definitely isn't despite that line in season 1 about her having gotten her accent from her Dad (almost as if they were trying to handwave the fact they'd cast the producers wife as her mother despite clearly not sounding like they come from the same place), when he shows up in a dream sequence he's as American as apple pie.
But even ignoring the accent, she's visibly got Mediterranean ancestry. If her "dad" is a stereotypical American white guy (he clearly made zero impression on me, since I watched that episode a few months ago and can't remember him at all) then perhaps a DNA test would have been in order. :glance:

Of course, the reason they didn't make much play of Meany being Irish is he'd tell them to **** off every time they did (watch Up the Long Ladder from before he had the clout to really say anything, his expression throughout the Planet of the Oirish exploits is hilarious), there's at least a couple of Holodeck Voyager episodes that shows what he was fighting against.
They didn't give O'Brien any offensively stereotypical Irish traits, no. But his background did come up a fair bit in the later seasons after he married Keiko, usually in contrast to with her Japanese upbringing. Actually, their occasional domestic squabbles were just about the only time humans were allowed to have different opinions on the show without one of them clearly being written as in the wrong. But even then nothing ever came of it aside from small gags about how they couldn't stomach the other's food.

I've seen Sisko get some real flak from people over his attitude in the final Vic Fontain epsiode where he refuses to join in the fun because of 1950's racism, "People aren't supposed to care about that sort of thing anymore by the 24th century!"
Those people clearly haven't watched the show, or they'd know that Sisko spent a fair chunk of time living as a black man in the 50s. I'd be bothered if he didn't take it personally.

Plus, his obsession with baseball probably meant that he was far more knowledgeable about how blacks were treated in those times than your average 24-century person even before that. Segregation played a huge role in the early history of the game.

and "Look at Bashir, he doesn't have a problem with it!" (which ignores the fact that as a British accented person of Indian descent there's unlikely to be slavery/segregation in his history so it wouldn't be a thing for him, not to mention he mentioned a few times history wasn't his thing. More odd is Far Beyond the Stars suggesting Sisko/the writers were confused by the accent into forgetting he wasn't white...).
His family name is "Bashir", so I doubt he's from anything but Arabic stock. But either way, his skin is light enough and his features are generic enough that he easily could have "passed" in mid-century America as long as he adopted an English name and never talked about his background. The posh accent would have helped a lot, too (it certainly fooled me when I was a kid).

Does anyone think Cyclonus may be female, based on his holo-avatar and his pointy robot fingers which are similar to Nautical and other Caminus people?
No. If he was a female he wouldn't be a he, he'd be a she. I know that sounds flippant, but they're robots. Their pronouns of choice are all that we've got to go on.

Holo-avatars really are neither here nor there, since Magnus, Bumblebee, Sunstreaker and Whirl have all sported female ones at one time or another. By that logic anyone who plays a video game with a female protagonist is secretly a woman.

Auntie Slag
2015-07-09, 07:59 PM
Holo-avatars really are neither here nor there, since Magnus, Bumblebee, Sunstreaker and Whirl have all sported female ones at one time or another. By that logic anyone who plays a video game with a female protagonist is secretly a woman.

Ah, I totally forgot Bumblebee had a female avatar. Didn't know about Sunstreaker. Magnus' was personally configured and Whirl... yeah, I remembered about Whirl, but because of the claws I didn't know where to go with that.

Ok, no worries. Thought I'd posit that one as I'm doing the usual procrastinating work thing, and that's when these badly thought out thoughts tend to pop up!

inflatable dalek
2015-07-10, 12:18 PM
Whatever you say, Irishman.

Hey, it's not my fault your continent is called North America, we all know what you really are. ;)



But even ignoring the accent, she's visibly got Mediterranean ancestry. If her "dad" is a stereotypical American white guy (he clearly made zero impression on me, since I watched that episode a few months ago and can't remember him at all) then perhaps a DNA test would have been in order. :glance:

Tellingly her sister in the same episode is a blond haired and blue eyed Kirsten Dunst. WHO IS DEANNA'S REAL FATHER?

It's probably Mr. Homm.

Totally into spurious territory now, but here's a fun recent interview with Sirtis where she's clearly gone fully Californian with her normal accent now:

http://www.missionlogpodcast.com/the-one-with-marina-sirtis/


They didn't give O'Brien any offensively stereotypical Irish traits, no. But his background did come up a fair bit in the later seasons after he married Keiko, usually in contrast to with her Japanese upbringing. Actually, their occasional domestic squabbles were just about the only time humans were allowed to have different opinions on the show without one of them clearly being written as in the wrong. But even then nothing ever came of it aside from small gags about how they couldn't stomach the other's food.

The Keiko thing was odd, on the one hand it was nice to have a normal married couple on Trek. On the other, they didn't really have any onscreen chemistry or even the suggestion the two characters had anything whatsoever in common.

To give you an idea of what Meany was fighting against: The original script for If Wishes Were Horses had him being chased around by a leprechaun. His wonderful response was along the lines of that not really having anything to do with the Ireland he knew, and maybe they should watch The Commitments a few times.


Those people clearly haven't watched the show, or they'd know that Sisko spent a fair chunk of time living as a black man in the 50s. I'd be bothered if he didn't take it personally.

Plus, his obsession with baseball probably meant that he was far more knowledgeable about how blacks were treated in those times than your average 24-century person even before that. Segregation played a huge role in the early history of the game.

Yes! Exactly. It shows one of the pitfalls that Trek has. People complain the TNG crew are too bland. So they make an effort to make the DS9 crew conflicted and interesting. Then people complain DS9 isn't true to Gene's vision of everyone being terribly nice and dull.


His family name is "Bashir", so I doubt he's from anything but Arabic stock. But either way, his skin is light enough and his features are generic enough that he easily could have "passed" in mid-century America as long as he adopted an English name and never talked about his background. The posh accent would have helped a lot, too (it certainly fooled me when I was a kid).

His parents were a stock British Indian couple (though in this case, it was a nice cliché as I don't think I've ever seen it done on American TV), which implies various things about his family history.

Of course, Siddig has since made a career of casting directors being lazy ****ers, allowing him to corner the market in "So this part is for someone a bit dark skinned but not actually black? Well, they're all the same aren't they, get Sid in for it" roles. Sort of the new Nadim Sawahala (ironically the bloke who played Bashir's Dad- most recently seen playing The Indian One's Dad on Big Bang Theory- seems to be the American equivalent). Indian...Middle Eastern... Mexican... they can play it all.


This is your MTMTE 42 thread.

Warcry
2015-07-10, 04:52 PM
Hey, it's not my fault your continent is called North America, we all know what you really are. ;)
Nor is it my fault that Washington and his merry band couldn't come up with a more creative name for their new country after their treasonous war against the Crown.

Tellingly her sister in the same episode is a blond haired and blue eyed Kirsten Dunst. WHO IS DEANNA'S REAL FATHER?

It's probably Mr. Homm.
Nah. Lwaxana does seem like the type to sleep around, but she was way too obsessed with status to ever jump in bed with the help.

The Keiko thing was odd, on the one hand it was nice to have a normal married couple on Trek. On the other, they didn't really have any onscreen chemistry or even the suggestion the two characters had anything whatsoever in common.
I don't know if it was lack of chemistry so much as it was just Rosalind Chao being awful. The few times she stopped being wooden, she came off as a complete harpy. The little girl who played her during that episode when she got turned back into a child played the character much better.

It's no wonder that the DS9 writers shoved her off to the side as much as they could and had him hang out with Bashir all the time instead.

To give you an idea of what Meany was fighting against: The original script for If Wishes Were Horses had him being chased around by a leprechaun. His wonderful response was along the lines of that not really having anything to do with the Ireland he knew, and maybe they should watch The Commitments a few times.
I blame the annoying plastic paddy crowd for that. Everyone on this side of the pond makes fun of the Irish whenever we get the chance because we're surrounded by annoying people whose families moved here in the 1700s but somehow still insist that they're still just as Irish as [insert annoying stereotypical Irish thing here].

Yes! Exactly. It shows one of the pitfalls that Trek has. People complain the TNG crew are too bland. So they make an effort to make the DS9 crew conflicted and interesting. Then people complain DS9 isn't true to Gene's vision of everyone being terribly nice and dull.
DS9 definitely wins on that score, though. TNG really hasn't aged well at all. The fact that it was as successful as it was is really a testament to how boring TV was in the 80s than anything else.

His parents were a stock British Indian couple (though in this case, it was a nice cliché as I don't think I've ever seen it done on American TV), which implies various things about his family history.
I wonder if that was on purpose, or just a case of "hire whatever vaguely brown actors we can find of the right age"? Because like you say, that still happens a lot. And it doesn't seem like the producers ever decided what ethnicity he was. The closest I can come is a quote from Ronald D. Moore saying that he's either Arabic or Indian, which isn't going to help settle much of anything.

Though if Bashir were a real person that we could ask, I'm sure he'd just say he's an Englishman and be vaguely confused by why we're asking. He seems to be pretty fully assimilated.

This is your MTMTE 42 thread.
We've derailed how many of them with Star Trek debates now? I feel like this has got to be the third or fourth.

Skyquake87
2015-07-10, 08:56 PM
Tra la la la got a copy in the post today and have read it and it were ace. Cheerful fun times in lovely Joanna colours! I liked the disco at the ends, reminds me of a lot of the nights out I used to have in Leeds town, back in the day. And I liked the Quantum Leap gag at the end.

I shall now go back and read this thread to pick up on all the sub-text and whatnot that you folk pick up on straight away and I miss and end up just going "...oh yeah!" at, and do a bit of drool out the corner of my mouth.

I'm right dozy me, but happy

Skyquake87
2015-07-10, 09:48 PM
Skyquake's amazing pop fact:

Dexy's Midnight Runners appeared on Top Of The Pops performing 'Jackie Wilson Says' (black, sang 'Reete Petite' which I remember being re-released with a clay-mation video sometime in the spooky 1980s). The darts player Jocky Wilson (fat, white, throws darts) was shown on blue screen backdrop behind the band. This was for many years thought to be a mistake that no-one noticed, but a recent TOTP2 (I say 'recent' - in the last 10 years) revealed this was deliberate production japery.

Whilst familiar with Roberts' musical choices (which stretch from 1979 - 1990, pop pickers), I would say they're not the sort of stuff you can really throw shapes to, I like Saint Etienne very much - but it'd be 'Filthy' or 'Like A Motorway' which'd get me dancing, over the sort of Bacarach pastiche of 'Only Love Can Break Your Heart'. It's very much indie sounds of the 1980s, when the indie crowd had enormous Echo And The Bunnymen style hair, wore brown overcoats and every fifth gituar band sounded like The Smiths until late in the decade when the likes of The Stone Roses show up to liven things up (Primal Scream's 'Velocity Girl' - a Byrds-esque janglefest - is a world away from anything off the druggy dance-rock opus 'Screamadelica')

And in case your interested, here's some of my top indie disco floorfillers :

The Breeders 'Cannonball'
Verruca Salt 'Seether'
Faith No More 'We Care A Lot'
Janes Addiction 'Been Caught Stealing'
Neds Atomic Dustbin 'Plug Me In'
Carter USM 'R.U.B.B.I.S.H.'
Pop Will Eat Itself 'Def Con One'
Siouxsie And The Banshees 'Peek-A-Boo'
Sisters Of Mercy 'Temple Of Love'
Bodycount 'Bodycount's In Tha House'
Revolting Cocks 'Beers Steers And Queers'
Consolidated ft Yeastie Girls 'You Suck'
Beastie Boys 'Sure Shot'
Prodigy 'Poison'

Bananas
Apples
Milk
Cereal


...sorry that's my shopping list

Auntie Slag
2015-07-10, 09:55 PM
You star, 'Like a Motorway' is my favourite St. Etienne song! :)

Skyquake87
2015-07-10, 10:03 PM
I know! And no one ever plays it anywhere! I think I heard it once on the radio and its a f**King FANTASTIC song.

Let's all have a listen : https://youtu.be/3auZFKDBpKg

inflatable dalek
2015-07-11, 11:11 AM
I don't know if it was lack of chemistry so much as it was just Rosalind Chao being awful. The few times she stopped being wooden, she came off as a complete harpy. The little girl who played her during that episode when she got turned back into a child played the character much better.

Yeah, the idea of a married couple who were neither perfect nor doomed but instead had all the stress and petty squabbles which make up most relationships was a good one, but the petty squabbles were pretty much all they had.

It's no wonder that the DS9 writers shoved her off to the side as much as they could and had him hang out with Bashir all the time instead.

He got on so much better with Bashir than he wife that even the show basically admitted in the end they were gay for one another with that weird "But you like me more" conversation in one of the last episodes.



DS9 definitely wins on that score, though. TNG really hasn't aged well at all. The fact that it was as successful as it was is really a testament to how boring TV was in the 80s than anything else.

I think TNG is great for standalone SF pieces that take an interesting idea and knock about for an hour, and the best of those episodes still stand up exceptionally well, there's no better "Groundhog Day" episode than Cause and Effect for example.

For character development it basically sucks, what you do get is mostly down to the actors just getting more comfortable rather than anyone sitting down and thinking about how the impact of any of the things that happen to them would affect them.


I wonder if that was on purpose, or just a case of "hire whatever vaguely brown actors we can find of the right age"? Because like you say, that still happens a lot. And it doesn't seem like the producers ever decided what ethnicity he was. The closest I can come is a quote from Ronald D. Moore saying that he's either Arabic or Indian, which isn't going to help settle much of anything.

Hats off to whoever wrote that episode though, it did feel generally in the right ballpark of those British Indian style films like East is East, and with a cockney wheel dealer and his lanky straight man embarrassed by their crocked activity I suspect someone had watched a lot of Only Fools and Horses as research for British family dynamics in general as well.

Though if Bashir were a real person that we could ask, I'm sure he'd just say he's an Englishman and be vaguely confused by why we're asking. He seems to be pretty fully assimilated.

Though oddly I don't think they were directly said he was English, if not for the accent (and his Dad's), he could basically be from anywhere. Presumably a result of the character not being conceived of as English, meaning no one thought to throw all the usual references in.


We've derailed how many of them with Star Trek debates now? I feel like this has got to be the third or fourth.


Ah, wait, I'm going to bring it back round now to MTMTE! Watch me go!

He's not in this issue, but to go back to a point people made in the previous issues about Brainstorm and his far too easy reasimilation into the crew: That most of them don't know he betrayed and tried to erase them all from history.

Now, that's a fair enough point to make- though I'm not sure it's been conveyed clearly and it assumes someone like Riptide could keep their mouth shut over it.

But it does remind me of Doctor Bashir, I Presume. As originally written, this terrible secret would have been revealed about Bashir, but then O'Brien would have blackmailed Zimmerman to not report it and the episode would have ended with a "Let us never talk about it again" style moment as so much Trek does.

Alexander Siddig however, felt that suddenly revealing he was playing a genetic super-man who is highly illegal and then never actually being able to mention it would have been an incredibly difficult thing to play, and so asked for it to be changed, with everyone finding out and Bashir only being allowed to stay in Star Fleet thanks to some nifty footwork from Sisko. And, though it took a while (presumably because it hadn't originally been planned), they wound up getting some great material for the character out of it through his changed attitude and how everyone else reacted a little differently to him, even with some bigotry (especially from Worf) in a couple of episodes.

In short, Brainstorm doing these things and the bulk of the characters never knowing and him just acting as normal with everyone who does know within two issues was by far the least interesting thing to have done with the fallout from that story.




I shall now go back and read this thread to pick up on all the sub-text and whatnot that you folk pick up on straight away and I miss and end up just going "...oh yeah!" at, and do a bit of drool out the corner of my mouth.

Yeah, sorry about that. It's mainly Star Trek this month.

Skyquake87
2015-07-11, 08:01 PM
That's alright, I enjoy reading all the stuffs you folks say about Star Trek. Along with Star Wars, its a Sci-Fi thing I'm really indifferent to, so its kind of cool to have a sort of grounding by-proxy in it, without having to actually watch the show!

Read this issue again on the train home today, and still really enjoy it. Nautica is one of my favourites now. She's so sweet.

And I do like Getaway. I think because I've known a few people like him in my time, outwardly lovely and charming, but really quite slippery bastards with their own agenda and interests. Probably what makes him so effective in whatever special mission me do he gets sent out on.

I do agree with Warcry to an extent on Skids. I liked how he was portrayed in the old Marvel comics, and this isn't really the same guy and IDW is doing its own thing with him, which is fair enough. But I am weary of super bad ass ninja types in comics, its such a boring trope. However, the mystery around him didn't take decades to be resolved and I like the personality Roberts has given him, so I can get past that.

The Brainstorm thing really needed a decent resolution though, or at least some scenes with the others reacting to him basically being let off and how they now interact with him. Maybe we'll get that down the line.

Also: Can we have some Bluestreak, please?

Auntie Slag
2015-07-12, 11:01 AM
Whoa, Skyquake! Didn't realise you were a Teletext Digitiser reader! Moc, moc a moc.

Death's Head
2015-07-12, 11:26 AM
Swayze.

(Mr Biffo is still writing - look here: http://www.digitiser2000.com/)

The best Saint Etienne songs to dance to? 'Join Our Club'; 'Angel' (the way out west remix); 'Hug My Soul'; 'Stars Above Us'; 'Popular'; 'We're in the City'.

(I'm obsessed. James told me on Twitter that he very nearly did use 'Like a Motorway'. Apparently it's loosely based on an old folk song, 'Silver Daggers' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Dagger_(song))).

Of course, Siddig has since made a career of casting directors being lazy ****ers, allowing him to corner the market in "So this part is for someone a bit dark skinned but not actually black? Well, they're all the same aren't they, get Sid in for it" roles. Sort of the new Nadim Sawahala (ironically the bloke who played Bashir's Dad- most recently seen playing The Indian One's Dad on Big Bang Theory- seems to be the American equivalent). Indian...Middle Eastern... Mexican... they can play it all.

As a gentleman of similarly ambiguous, dusky ethnicity I agree - I've been Spanish, Greek, Turkish, Morrocan, Italian. My response is normally along the lines of

I'm sure he'd just say he's an Englishman and be vaguely confused by why we're asking.

Also, as a former jobbing actor I can guarantee you that casting directors are that lazy. Several of my friends were cast as Afghan terrorists in some Ross Kemp drama many years back. Of the three only one was actually Afghan - the others were Columbian and Filipino!

Auntie Slag
2015-07-12, 03:19 PM
Yeah, I've been reading Digi 2000 since it started up... late last year was it? Didn't he also write Bubblegun for a while?

Death's Head
2015-07-12, 04:20 PM
It does ring a bell. He also wrote for the bizarre My Parents Are Aliens!

Auntie Slag
2015-07-12, 04:54 PM
Wow, that is bizarre. I kind of imagine him as a video game Chris Morris. I hope he'd take that as the massive compliment its intended!

inflatable dalek
2015-07-12, 07:09 PM
That's alright, I enjoy reading all the stuffs you folks say about Star Trek. Along with Star Wars, its a Sci-Fi thing I'm really indifferent to, so its kind of cool to have a sort of grounding by-proxy in it, without having to actually watch the show!

Sorry, you can't join in unless you've seen Star Trek. Go away and watch all 800ish episodes and then come back. We'll wait for you.



Also: Can we have some Bluestreak, please?

That's part of what's so odd about everyone now loving Earth stuff. Bluestreak was set up as The Guy Who Can Make References To Earth Culture, giving him something to contribute none of the other characters can in terms of actually pointing out what the series is referencing. He's now redundant!


As a gentleman of similarly ambiguous, dusky ethnicity I agree - I've been Spanish, Greek, Turkish, Morrocan, Italian. My response is normally along the lines of

I hope Siddig's response to questions about his ethnicity is "I'm Malcom Mc****ingDowell's nephew biatches!". That's what I'd do if I were him.

I'd probably mention how Lalla Ward used to come round for tea when I was a teenager as well (which to be fair, he seems to like bringing up as well).

Death's Head
2015-07-12, 08:51 PM
My dad once caught Lalla Ward shoplifting when he used to be a store detective, many years ago. Not quite as tasty an anecdote, really :(

inflatable dalek
2015-07-13, 06:57 AM
My dad once caught Lalla Ward shoplifting when he used to be a store detective, many years ago. Not quite as tasty an anecdote, really :(


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you know the only thing we'll be talking about on Saturday don't you?

Yes, me and Death's Head like to meet up for a drink from time to time. We talk about Terome.

Flimflammery
2015-07-13, 08:35 AM
Hi, long-time lurker, first time poster here; just wanted to point out the following (and apologies that my first post is basically pedantry!)

His parents were a stock British Indian couple (though in this case, it was a nice cliché as I don't think I've ever seen it done on American TV), which implies various things about his family history.

They weren't a stock British Indian couple. They were played by a man with mixed Israeli-British heritage and an Egyptian woman who's currently a professor of anthropology in Qatar. They are quite clearly meant to be of Arabic stock, despite the fact that Brian George is kind of a go-to guy for casting directors if you want an Indian father. He wasn't, however, putting on an Indian accent in 'Doctor Bashir, I Presume'. The director, David Livingston, has even stated that they were specifically looking for Arab-Americans for the role, and that they had tremendous difficulty finding someone to play Bashir's mother - which is why, in the end, they went with an amateur actor.

I now return you to your regular programming :-)

inflatable dalek
2015-07-13, 09:15 AM
I don't have the time to reply properly right now (other than to say you're basically right, I've got some more long winded thoughts up my sleeve), but I did want to just quickly say welcome aboard and pedantry is something we all go for here.

Terome
2015-07-13, 10:08 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you know the only thing we'll be talking about on Saturday don't you?

Yes, me and Death's Head like to meet up for a drink from time to time. We talk about Terome.

Whenever Terome's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking...

Flimflammery
2015-07-14, 06:34 AM
I don't have the time to reply properly right now (other than to say you're basically right, I've got some more long winded thoughts up my sleeve), but I did want to just quickly say welcome aboard and pedantry is something we all go for here.

Thank you for the welcome. Yeah, I get that impression :)

inflatable dalek
2015-07-14, 06:40 AM
...And now I can't remember what brilliant point I was going to make.


So basically... you're right.

Terome
2015-07-14, 10:33 PM
That makes Flimflammery the King!

inflatable dalek
2015-07-15, 06:38 AM
That makes Flimflammery the King!

It's starting to look like the rest of you weren't even trying.

Flimflammery
2015-07-15, 03:39 PM
That makes Flimflammery the King!

Troubling and unexpected... but nonetheless I will try to be fair and just to my new subjects!

My first commandment is that Mr Dalek educates himself on the music of Belle and Sebastian ;)

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-07-15, 03:49 PM
Nice! Three posts in and regal already. I like the cut of your jib, FF. Willkommen! :)

inflatable dalek
2015-07-15, 07:55 PM
I for one welcome our new overlord.


Belle and Sebastian... they did Ohhh Stick You, right?

To be vaguely on topic, Roberts has tweeted what a script page of MTMTE (in this case issue 38) looks like after he's finished revising it:

https://twitter.com/jroberts332/status/621102287176531968


[The redacted word isn't some important secret hint of things to come, it's "****"]

inflatable dalek
2015-07-24, 03:49 PM
Whilst you're all off talking about the preview of 43 (am I really the only one who avoids those?), Roberts has done a podcast interview which talks about some of the criticism this issue received on the Underbase podcast, a good chunk of which reflected my own thoughts so it should make an interesting listen (I'm going to tune in on the way to the pub):

http://www.transmissionspodcast.com/2015/07/transmissions-episode-113-tfcon-toronto-james-roberts-interview/

Terome
2015-07-27, 12:09 PM
Entertaining podcast, Roberts is definitely aware of the criticisms. I'd like him to not bow to these backlashes and just keep doing what he's doing but that's probably impossible when people keep cornering him and telling him exactly how he's displeasing them.

The guy who hasn't read the comics and hates them because the 1984 set aren't in it was a weird interlude.

Skyquake87
2015-07-27, 07:06 PM
Aye - ignore us plebs, Mr Roberts - we don't know what we want anyway! :)

Auntie Slag
2015-07-27, 07:39 PM
Live by the sword, die by the sword. He knows what he's doing.

inflatable dalek
2015-07-27, 07:47 PM
Yeah, I don't think any of us are so deluded as to expect the writers to listen to any of us*. After all, trying to rewrite the story on the fly to respond to every criticism is clearly what was going on with All Hail Megatron and look how that turned out.


















*Except me of course.

Auntie Slag
2015-07-27, 07:56 PM
I got the impression that an awful lot of fans really enjoyed All Hail Megatron, and it only got any stick from the über nerds.

inflatable dalek
2015-07-27, 08:01 PM
Which considering that 98% of the readership was the uber fans (physical sales stayed exactly the same as the considered-disapointing-by-IDW Furman material and digital wasn't a thing in those days) that's a hell of a problem.


EDIT: It may be looked back on more kindly now though due to not being Mike Costa. It's still pretty poor though.

Auntie Slag
2015-07-27, 08:18 PM
Were they though? I thought AHM and Regeneration One was meant to appeal to those who used to love Transformers and might consider picking up the comics again because we're all man-children now and the success of the live action films means its not quite so weird for the casual fans to wander into a Forbidden Planet and geek out at some memories; AHM has the cartoon aesthetic to it mixed with a darker, harsher edge (Ravage looked thoroughly evil for instance), whilst Regeneration was there to snare the old comic & Furman fans.

I was a Furman fan, but I didn't like Rengeration One from the off. Felt just like the Snoopy sketch where he says you can't go home again. So if they both did about equal in sales I'm not massively surprised as they were trying to do the same thing.

I wonder how Megaton: Origin did? I always liked that.

Skyquake87
2015-07-28, 07:19 PM
I didn't think AHM was so bad, it went wrong when IDW tried to link it to the Furman stuff in the back half of the run, rather than sticking to the original remit of being something of a clean slate.

Megatron : Origin is one of the worst things I've ever read, mainly for Milne's horrible Pat Lee scribbles in that book. Its also a really murky book to look at and I found it difficult to follow what was going on - moreso than Jae Lee's turn on the Transformers/ GI Joe WWII book. The stodgy, slow paced story telling and just having Megs lethargically wander into the role of Decepticon leader was utter balls. I wanted the passion, fire and vitriol of a revolutionary leader - not some morose lump with hazard stripes.

inflatable dalek
2015-07-28, 08:14 PM
Were they though?

Well again, considering sales figures didn't change a jot from Devastation either everyone who had been previously reading all gave up at once and were replaced by an equal number of new fans, or it just sold to basically the same people and was a complete failure at bringing new readers in (considering how many readers the -tions lost over their run it would be unfair to say that many of those left wouldn't have been up for the change, nor that many of them didn't enjoy AHM. But they're also quite likely to have been pissed off at the sudden dependency on things like Huntstreaker from the stuff they didn't like).

Reg's successes or failures are harder to say because digital had become a thing by then, but it did lose a hell of a lot of readers physically as it went along (and the fact a lot came back for the last issue suggests there was still an audience for it, they just weren't biting), going from selling a fair bit better than RID or MTMTE to do a fair bit worse. Not to mention the scary evangelical fans of it going very quiet as it went along.

I can't recall how Megs Origin did, but IDW's stuff did sell a lot better in those days, the attempt at Beast Wars comics ended (and was rather grumpily ended as well, "****ing kill Razorback if no one likes this!") due to disappointing sales that were about three times as many as the current ongoings make physically. They spent a long time bleeding readers to the core fanbase, and then spent a long time running about like headless chickens trying to get them back without having the slightest clue how to do it.

MTMTE has actually done a far better job of reaching out to people who weren't already fans, as can be seen by the fact it winds up so much higher in the digital chart than its contemporary stable mates and the general feedback from a much wider demographic on twitter/tumbler/facebook/instagram than we were getting five years ago. Yes it has the advantage of a new platform, but it turns out the way to get people who aren't already especially interested in Transformers comics isn't to make them more like a thirty year cartoon but to make them like a really good 2015 comic.



Megatron : Origin is one of the worst things I've ever read, mainly for Milne's horrible Pat Lee scribbles in that book. Its also a really murky book to look at and I found it difficult to follow what was going on - moreso than Jae Lee's turn on the Transformers/ GI Joe WWII book. The stodgy, slow paced story telling and just having Megs lethargically wander into the role of Decepticon leader was utter balls. I wanted the passion, fire and vitriol of a revolutionary leader - not some morose lump with hazard stripes.


It's telling that so much of Roberts work could well be called "Actual Megatron Origin" isn't it?

Denyer
2015-08-02, 06:58 PM
Rare visit to Twitter produced --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1L9ZFn37kY

K1L9ZFn37kY

Auntie Slag
2015-08-02, 07:40 PM
Likewise, the chap who mapped the panels to go with this Katy Perry track is white-hot for choice!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znb-JmSf1aU