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zigzagger
2015-11-11, 06:34 PM
A touch earlier than usual, Transformers: More than Meets the Eye #47 three-page preview by way of iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/transformers-more-than-meets/id1057779576?l=es&mt=11).

Full issue is due November 25.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-11-11, 08:21 PM
Sooooo, do we think Tailgate is supposed to effectively be a child (at least emotionally)? If so, super creepy stuff from Groomaway.

Patapsco
2015-11-11, 09:04 PM
Getaway? GetTheHellOut more like

Patapsco
2015-11-20, 09:37 PM
there's a longer preview on Newsarama. A bit more between Tailgate and Getaway. Hurry up Wednesday, I need to see where this is going

Death's Head
2015-11-21, 04:02 PM
Tailgate on the receiving end of some surprise sex, I imagine!

inflatable dalek
2015-11-25, 10:33 AM
OUT NOW SO DON'T GO READING FURTHER.



SERIOUSLY, YOU'LL REGRET IT.






THEY'LL BE NO GETingAWAY FROM YOUR REGRETS IF YOU DO.












Oh, that was clever.


So it seemed as if were set up for a straightforward love story issue, and then suddenly it switches into being about a conspiracy we've been almost led into forgetting about (I told you who Whirl was speaking to was important didn't I!!!! Ha, one in the bag for me).

The creepy, creepy, creeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy Getaway stuff was actually played perfectly, with him just being the sort of manipulative bastard you do see so often in real life.

Also perfect was the Whirl/Cyclonus conversation, with the laying of the cards on the table from Whirl about how Cyclonus does need to get over himself all seeming perfectly reasonable and in-character...

Before it turns out Whirl was in it right up to his one eye. And it wasn't Whirl giving a lecture to Cyclonus at all, it was Cyclonus delivering a one line one to Whirl.

What I like about this is that way back in Remain in Light it was Cyclonus' decision to not kill Whirl and show mercy that effectively saved Tailgate. It fantastically brings things full circle that it's Whirl betraying that trust which sends everything horribly wrong (and in a series where the importance of friendship over all else is a recurring theme it's also perfect that betrayal of friendship is a cataclysmic event).

And just like the last time it seemed one of them might die, Cyclonus winds up penetrating someone with his great big sword.

Minor niggle: Getaway getting his memory gun back seemed to come out of nowhere, unless I've missed something in a prior issue it's odd that wasn't set up in advance. It almost felt like Roberts was in the middle of writing a scene where Whirl just got knocked out, but realised he needed something to stop him just confessing once he woke up (I suspect Getaway is going to getaway with this for quite a while, at least not before the end of season 2).

More major niggle: The way the Autobot security team really goes to town on Cyclonus--something I can't see them having done to Tailgate by himself, or even someone like Whirl--re-emphasises the occasional point that many people aboard are still pissed about Kimia despite Cyclonus having done things like save the entire Universe since. Which re-emphasises the problem that there's no way these people would ever, ever serve with Megatron.

Getaway doesn't need to work out creepy sex pest plans to manoeuvre someone into attacking Megatron, it'd be a Murder on the Orient Express thing with at least a dozen lined up to say it was an "Accident". Especially as it's the second issue in a row to show Autobot security has a broad definition of "Justifiable homicide" when it comes to people they don't like.

Though that's an old problem the ship has well and truly sailed on, it still helps to unhinge the suspension of disbelieve every time someone acts like a dick towards Cyclonus.

Not that this will be a problem from now on!

Overall potential niggle in terms of the overall arc:





Well, no one actually says Cyclonus is dead, but the scene is played as such a big and operatic death scene (appropriately for C) that there's no way this end sequence won't seem really, really silly if it turns out he's just badly wounded/seemingly dead but going to be back for the end of season 2. It actually reminded me (spoiler for an episode of TV less than a week old) of Clara in this week's Doctor Who. There's the nagging feeling that the show won't have the courage to follow through and she'll be back in episode 12, making the slow motion and silent screaming look daft in retrospect.

So leave them dead!

And yes, the mistakes with Rung/Red Alert/Ultra Magnus/Ultra Magnus (others?) do still cast a long shadow and make it hard to take the seeming death of any series lead seriously. The book still needs a major one that sticks to overcome this.

Still, assuming a good and proper death for Cyclonus... a reaaaaaaaaally strong issue.

Rack 'n Ruin
2015-11-25, 10:50 AM
OUT NOW SO DON'T GO READING FURTHER.

Avoided the content of your post as I don't want to be spoiled. Presumably, however, you will be PM'ing Summerhayes with it? :devil:

Terome
2015-11-25, 12:26 PM
Yup, solid stuff. I'll say more later but for now:

Getaway doesn't need to work out creepy sex pest plans to manoeuvre someone into attacking Megatron, it'd be a Murder on the Orient Express thing with at least a dozen lined up to say it was an "Accident". Especially as it's the second issue in a row to show Autobot security has a broad definition of "Justifiable homicide" when it comes to people they don't like.

Remember that the implication of all this is that Whirl's intentions back in World Shut Your Mouth were for the security squad to gun him down in order to bring the hammer down on Megatron. They are counting on the LL security folk being at least that trigger-happy. The Tailgate plan was a lot better / more fiendish.

I wonder if anything Getaway said about the circumstances of his birth was true.

And yes, time for Cyclonus to bow out now. He's had a great run and people will remember him well. Here's hoping that whatever is going on with Tailgate at the end doesn't save him with magic.

Red Dave Prime
2015-11-25, 02:43 PM
Hmm and hmmer.

This is both a great issue to read and one that seems to have more than one or two problems in it.

Love the art.

Love Cyclonus throughout and especially at the end.

Love Megs reaction to being mind-messed again.

Love Whirl getting second thoughts.

Not Loving the LL security team - these guys do not fit in with the way anyone on the lostlight has been potrayed. Also, they are too trigger happy by far. I could have bought them reacting to megatron this way but I think anyone else, even cyclonus wouldnt have been taken down in this manner. Also, they seem to have come out of the blue

Not loving the final page. The very last few panels seem to scream reset/ or save. I hope not. For all the faults with how it comes about, Cyclonus's death is a good way to go and bar a rematch with Star Saber and his declaration of love for Tailgate (which happens here anyway) I dont think he has much left to give that couldnt be given to someone else.

Not loving the over elaborate conspiracy plot. I thought the way Getaway did things was brilliantly done, especially this issue. But as Dalek states - this is Megatron, up til recently the ultimate big bad who hasnt really done anything outside of defeating the chaos monster to change peoples opinions of him. Sure, he helped out in Dark Cybertron but that was an Autobot + Decepticon team up anyway. It seems so odd that the conspiracy needed to be so complicated. It only makes sense if they wanted Megs to be proved evil still and stand trial but they do state that they'd be happy for Megatron to be gunned down by the seemingly super-effective Lost Light Security Team. If thats the case they could have faked an assault from Megs onto one of them and let the gun-happy blow megs away - its not like they seemed open to any explanations. Seem to be far too much a shoot first, then shoot again and then what was the question? (and how is whirl not part of that group anyway?)

The next issue will be pretty important to how this one stands up. But I'd really hope that this is all in Tailgates head. Not because of the death of a main cast but that damn Security Squad of Psychos seems so wrong in the MTMTE world.

Patapsco
2015-11-25, 03:00 PM
"Goodbye little one"

And I am destroyed

Knightdramon
2015-11-25, 10:05 PM
Hmmm, did not see that coming from Getaway. If it helps, it makes me buy into the allure of the character even more.

There's this basically one-man army special agent [well...two men army, he was with Skids] that Prowl of all bots trusts to negotiate with other races and take on special missions like that. I wouldn't be surprised if both him and Skids had different "kill" orders for Tyrest if things went south.

And so far he's been portrayed as exactly the kind of character for this sort of missions---somebody who's charming and good on everybody's books [space barnacles were attached to him!], who's dependable and can work nicely in a duo [Skids, Nightbeat], has been seemingly in allegiance with Megatron and Ravage [Slaughterhouse and Vis Vitalis], but has his own agenda completely masked and separate from all that.

The Atomizer team-up came out of the blue though---could he be another deep, deep undercover agent of Prowl? Masking as a decorator, having high skills with an unusual [crossbow] weapon? Especially since Atomizer once tried to get all potential "nay-sayers" out of Rodimus's crew with his fake list.

Overall, a beautiful issue. I don't think Cyclonus is down, but this looks more and more like another Roberts attempt at taking down/incapacitating the A-listers before the end season finale...last season we had Magnus and Drift technically drop off just before the finale, with Rewind gone and Chromedome being too grieving and in the background despite being involved.

It fits---Cyclonus might be out temporarily, there's something going on with Skids next issue, and I believe that 49 will also take out somebody else or involve them enough to take them out of focus.

Just a hunch. Don't think Cyclonus is dead as we've had worse cop-outs than that, but it would fit beautifully if he's gone in what amounts to a non-event in the grand scheme of things. Whirl's scenes were also done beautifully, with his "choking in space" scene being just flat-out amazing.

Need more of this. Definitely more.

Patapsco
2015-11-25, 10:15 PM
Right, having had a chance to re-read it properly and not in a rush while off to work, here we go. This is pretty much the story of three characters, and surprisingly, none of them are called Tailgate. In a sort of order:

Getaway - oh man, I didn't see this coming, I really didn't. But it's one thing to try and sweet talk your way to a date, or even sex, but to sweet talk someone into a very sacred, relationship-defining ritual whose sole purpose is to get that person killed? That's cold, almost Decepticon level of villainy right there. His entire plan was to find someone pliable, and then convince them to provoke Megatron into a near or possibly very fatal reaction. The good thing is that Tailgate is still alive so he'll go on trial, but the prosecution may need an additional witness. Maybe someone like...

Whirl: who goes from messed up psychopath with a death wish to regaining his own moral compass. Of course, it only comes out when Cyclonus flat out tells him that his misanthropy is the only reason he came to talk to him, but it's definitely a start. It should also be noted that he didn't do anything definitive to talkaround Atomiser and Getaway, but the mere notion of saying "hmmm, asking Tailgate to do to Megatron that which Megatron most fears and when seen will most likely cause Megatron to kill Tailgate isn't the best idea" is commendable. The nudge bullet seemingly malfunctioning maybe will give Chromedome enough to work with to piece together his memories and sentence Getaway and Atomiser. Certainly, using the clocks to give out Megatron's room number gives a little credence to that. None of which actually helped...

Cyclonus: When I saw the cover in solicits, I wanted Cyclonus to have a happy ending. When I saw the three page preview, I wanted him to have a happy ending. When I saw the five page preview, I REALLY wanted him to have a happy ending. The reason for this is because out of every messed up & broken misfit on board The Lost Light, he was the one I identified with the most. Both of us are gruff, quiet, prone to staring out into space, completely and utterly unable to articulate our feelings until it's too late. But I think Cyclonus did get his happy ending. He didn't say what he wanted, but his actions spoke more than words and as for his last words... god, that got me. It got me. He died a good death and I want him to stay dead.

As for other things - the LL security team being over the top or not? Getaway mentions that "they're jumpy enough"; they did tell Cyclonus to turn around slowly and he went for his weapon; he did try and kill the captain of the ship (no Rodimus, you are not co-captain). I think the use of force is excessive but understandable. Tailgate's super power? I'm guessing that's something to do with the spark infusion he had.

Warcry
2015-11-26, 05:18 PM
I never thought I'd say this about something that Roberts penned, but I feel dumber for having read this. It felt like it should have had Shane McCarthy's name on the cover.

Minor niggle: Getaway getting his memory gun back seemed to come out of nowhere, unless I've missed something in a prior issue it's odd that wasn't set up in advance. It almost felt like Roberts was in the middle of writing a scene where Whirl just got knocked out, but realised he needed something to stop him just confessing once he woke up (I suspect Getaway is going to getaway with this for quite a while, at least not before the end of season 2).
I didn't see anything setting it up either, and it really left me scratching my head. I was also thrown a bit because it didn't seem like it worked the way it was described back in Remain in Light. It seemed like the nudge guns needed to be programmed ahead of time to carry out the exact change that the shooter wanted it to. So unless we're meant to believe Getaway anticipated needing to wipe Whirl's mind in exactly this way at exactly this time, it comes off as a really big "holy shit I need a way to keep Whirl from blowing the whistle!" handwave.

All of which I'd be able to look past easily enough, but the biggest sin here is that it erases the most interesting bit of character development in the issue. :(

Getaway doesn't need to work out creepy sex pest plans to manoeuvre someone into attacking Megatron, it'd be a Murder on the Orient Express thing with at least a dozen lined up to say it was an "Accident". Especially as it's the second issue in a row to show Autobot security has a broad definition of "Justifiable homicide" when it comes to people they don't like.
This is pretty glaring, yeah. The entire scheme seems to be entirely unnecessary and overly complicated. If the crew is ready to turn on Megs at the slightest provocation like they suggest, he's already given them more than enough pretexts for it so there's no need to engineer one. And, obviously, nothing's happened. In fact, when someone actually does jump in and try to kill Megs this issue the crew rallies and goes after his attacker with extreme prejudice. You could argue that they've just been waiting for Cyclonus to give them an excuse, but again, it's not like they haven't had one in the past.

Beyond that, I'm not sure why "trick Megatron into doing something so someone else will kill him for you, maybe," is the go-to plan here. Just plant a bomb in Megs' quarters and put a round through his brain module after he's been disabled. I mean hell, Atomizer is an assassin. He should know how to kill someone without over-complicating it.

And then on top of it all, if you really do need to resort to a zany scheme, Tailgate is quite possibly the worst patsy you could have chosen. Firstly because he's dumb as shit (is it just me, or has he actually gotten dumber as time went on just to make this plot more plausible?) and secondly because, as we saw, Cyclonus will ruin everything.

And then, looping everything back to the nudge gun...why not just use that to compel someone into doing this, rather than spending two years grooming the utterly useless Tailgate for it? Or, hell, compel Megatron to shoot his own head off! I know that Getaway said he spent time getting it back, but if getting his hands on it was always in the cards it would have been a much better plan than the one they actually executed.

Well, no one actually says Cyclonus is dead, but the scene is played as such a big and operatic death scene (appropriately for C) that there's no way this end sequence won't seem really, really silly if it turns out he's just badly wounded/seemingly dead but going to be back for the end of season 2. It actually reminded me (spoiler for an episode of TV less than a week old)
Because of how the series has handled death in the past, it's kind of a tricky situation. Characters have endured far worse than this and come back from it, so if Cyclonus is dead that's pretty silly. On the other hand, if Cyclonus survives after that melodramatic death scene, that's pretty silly too.

Not Loving the LL security team - these guys do not fit in with the way anyone on the lostlight has been potrayed. Also, they are too trigger happy by far. I could have bought them reacting to megatron this way but I think anyone else, even cyclonus wouldnt have been taken down in this manner. Also, they seem to have come out of the blue
Yeah, I can't see how a ship as lax as the LL could have a crazy kill squad for security guards. This is the same ship where blowing up hand grenades in the corridors is considered a recreational sport. I mean, these guys work for Ultra Magnus, the guy who's been known to stand there and let people shoot at him until he's finished reading them their rights. We're meant to think he'd stand for this sort of behaviour?

But I think the weird feeling here comes down to Roberts trying really hard to be "topical". Unfortunately the "triggerhappy cops gun down a misunderstood minority" analogy doesn't really play considering Cyclonus just put a sword through the chest of the ship's captain. I mean, you're not going to see a Black Lives Matter protest erupt if the cops gun down a guy who just assassinated Obama...

(As an aside, wouldn't it have been better to call Megatron and/or security instead of rushing in throwing swords at all and sundry?)

The Atomizer team-up came out of the blue though---could he be another deep, deep undercover agent of Prowl? Masking as a decorator, having high skills with an unusual [crossbow] weapon? Especially since Atomizer once tried to get all potential "nay-sayers" out of Rodimus's crew with his fake list.
Did it? We've known since the "fake list" incident that Atomizer was up to no good. It actually made a lot of sense to me that he'd pop up here. Though, just how stupid is Rodimus to allow him back on the ship after he what he pulled? I mean, I know that Roberts is writing him like he's a dim-witted five year old in defiance of all his previous characterization, but even by MTMTE Rodimus standards it's amazingly stupid not to do something about the guy who gave you a fake enemies' list and tried to get you to toss people off the ship for nefarious reasons.

The biggest problem here, though, is just how rushed this all feels. We go from zero to insane assassination scheme in about two pages with no explanation for half of what's happening. The ideas that came to fruition needed to be seeded far more thoroughly in earlier issues in order for this to have the kind of impact it should have, and they weren't. It sure is a good thing we wasted so many issues earlier on dicking around with Necrobots and Swerveworlds and femmebot dance parties and personality ticks, wasn't it?

TL;DR: **** this issue. Roberts could and should have done better.

inflatable dalek
2015-11-26, 08:50 PM
I never thought I'd say this about something that Roberts penned, but I feel dumber for having read this. It felt like it should have had Shane McCarthy's name on the cover.



A fuller reply later but: Blimey. Warcry unleashed the McCarthy analogy!

Denyer
2015-11-26, 09:23 PM
he's dumb as shit
And I wouldn't have been upset to see Tailgate offed. In an equation between deceitful idiot child and ancient pragmatist the potential for character writing is very heavily weighed to the latter.

On the other hand, it also made him rather out of place in the cast. Megs as Magneto is a more natural fit.

Some gorgeous colouring in this.

I can buy the patsy plan. It's overcomplicated shit like that that gives credibility to such a long war, and all of a sudden there's a period of relatively less conflict but schemers (such as Brainstorm) and schemes don't stop.

I don't really buy Whirl as that much of a moral void at this point. Getaway's come-on felt too compressed into the page count and as people have already remarked, Tailgate is dumb as shit. Most characters wouldn't view mind surgeon fingers as cool even if they'd spent most of their life underground. So, a bit clunky. Autobot guards... enough firepower to fend off Megatron for a bit, maybe. No real names amongst them? Didn't feel engaged by that. Plus Cyclonus has generally been written as nails, right back to the Unicron powered comics version.

The biggest problem here, though, is just how rushed this all feels.
Yes.

Unicron
2015-11-27, 12:06 AM
Did it? We've known since the "fake list" incident that Atomizer was up to no good. It actually made a lot of sense to me that he'd pop up here. Though, just how stupid is Rodimus to allow him back on the ship after he what he pulled? I mean, I know that Roberts is writing him like he's a dim-witted five year old in defiance of all his previous characterization, but even by MTMTE Rodimus standards it's amazingly stupid not to do something about the guy who gave you a fake enemies' list and tried to get you to toss people off the ship for nefarious reasons.

Maybe I'm overthinking it but I'm not sure Rodimus could just boot Atomizer, at least without consequence. The minute Rodders tells him to leave, that's when news of the list comes out. Yeah, it was fake, but Rodimus didn't know that. He willingly took it and read it when he thought it was real, after saying that even looking at it could end him.

Terome
2015-11-27, 12:30 AM
These problems that come up are all definitely problems - the gung-ho security guards I can just about buy now that I know that it's Strafe From Kimia heading them up combined with Denyer's suggestion of Megatron-level firepower. It is a case of the tail wagging the dog, plotwise, though.

Same thing with Getaway's wacky plan that could definitely have been less wacky. I don't mind this one as it was entertaining. MTMTE doesn't really have villains or doesn't really believe in them, so it's nice to have a Dick Dastardly in there. As for the moral calculus, one dumb-as-shit Tailgate for a mass murderer who is bound to cause trouble (plus his assassin cat) is fairly sound. As we've seen in this comic and elsewhere, these guys really don't have a functioning justice system beyond Fort Max receiving the worst possible play therapy, Prime pretending to be a judge and Xaaron who does nothing. But then we come back to the problem of why nobody has even tried to wack Megatron apart from Whirl and his co-conspirators. Maybe because they respect Prime so very very much? It doesn't really wash.

I'm not too bothered about all this - limits of serialised fiction and all that - and for me this issue was really tense and effective during the act of reading it. For all the loops that had to be jumped through, the scene with Whirl and Cyclonus was deft and had a good sense of momentum behind it all. I hadn't realised till Warcry pointed it out that Whirl will have forgotten that now! Rats.

Red Dave Prime
2015-11-27, 12:50 AM
A second and third read isnt helping this issue. That rushed feeling is bang on the money. I really feel parts of this issue are great but the way we get there stretches things a bit too much.

Too many things happen here to facilitate end results. There is no reason Cyclonus goes for his sword. He knows that there is something going on with Getaway and Tailgate so at the very least he can explain himself.

The clock thing with whirl is nice but its the first time we see it and how does he actually do all the clock stuff after collapsing anyway.

Now that you all point it out, Tailgate has gotten dumb. And he didnt have to. The way he has been potrayed (big headed upstart) means that Getaway could have just played to his ego.

Sigh... reminds me a bit too much of Megatrons masterplan in the first season of RID.

Knightdramon
2015-11-27, 09:25 AM
I think the basis on using Tailgate as the pawn makes sense from a plethora of ways in this instance.

A) We know many Autobots on the crew are scared of Megatron because of the war or personally witnessing him in action
B) We know the other half Autobots, especially the upper command on the ship, "respect" Prime's decision and work with Megatron as part of the ranks. Magnus and Perceptor come as good examples of this.

Tailgate is neither of these. He literally has never witnessed Megatron in action, and too immature or low in the ranks to come into official status contact with him.

Hence he wouldn't be paralysed by fear or protest against the "plan" or risk blowing any cover. Plus he's very easy to manipulate.

I don't think the security team is too trigger-happy in this instance. Just in S1, the crew has had at least 3 instances in which the security team failed to respond/was otherwise engaged [Fort Max, Overlord, Tyrest takeover]...if anything, prejudice against Cyclonus excluded, this is the first time they are actually on time and active. :swirly:

inflatable dalek
2015-11-27, 02:55 PM
I never thought I'd say this about something that Roberts penned, but I feel dumber for having read this. It felt like it should have had Shane McCarthy's name on the cover.

Now that last bit is just trying to troll me!


I didn't see anything setting it up either, and it really left me scratching my head. I was also thrown a bit because it didn't seem like it worked the way it was described back in Remain in Light. It seemed like the nudge guns needed to be programmed ahead of time to carry out the exact change that the shooter wanted it to. So unless we're meant to believe Getaway anticipated needing to wipe Whirl's mind in exactly this way at exactly this time, it comes off as a really big "holy shit I need a way to keep Whirl from blowing the whistle!" handwave.

Thinking on it... I wonder if it's not so much a case the gun has a lack of set up, but that the gun itself is set up for something? As the caption informs us, Tyrest took it off Getaway, and Tyrest is both still out there and can teleport about the place. And wasn't it Slag's theory that Getaway had been turned by Tyrest during captivity? An evil team up perhaps?

I'm assuming the gun had just been set to wipe any of Whirl's conspiracy related memories rather than specific details.


Beyond that, I'm not sure why "trick Megatron into doing something so someone else will kill him for you, maybe," is the go-to plan here. Just plant a bomb in Megs' quarters and put a round through his brain module after he's been disabled. I mean hell, Atomizer is an assassin. He should know how to kill someone without over-complicating it.

Presumably they just want to be completely removed from any blame or fallout themselves, can you imagine how Optimus would react if it had been pulled off?

And then on top of it all, if you really do need to resort to a zany scheme, Tailgate is quite possibly the worst patsy you could have chosen. Firstly because he's dumb as shit (is it just me, or has he actually gotten dumber as time went on just to make this plot more plausible?) and secondly because, as we saw, Cyclonus will ruin everything.

Tailgate has always been gulible/far to eager to act (remember his pulling a gun on Megatron before? And Cyclonus' reaction to that?). He has gotten stupider, but that's mainly down to Getaway's constant undermining of him and getting him very, very drunk before encouraging him to act. He's been twisted into this position from almost the moment Whirl's first attempt failed (which is why I'm surprised to see people saying it felt it came from nowhere, I was more expecting folks to complain it had been dragged out too long! We've known Getaway has been manipulating Tailgate, and we've known people have been working with Whirl to provoke Megatron into doing something that will let them kill him. It's just connecting those two things that happens here).

It's worth noting Cyclonus has also had a drink he's not used to and which he took to aid out of character behaviour, so he's not in the best frame of mind at the end either. Plus he's got no real idea what's going on when he gets to room 113 either.

Does anyone else feel like Trailbreaker trying to muck about with Megatron's fuel whilst off his head was foreshadowing of this?


But I think the weird feeling here comes down to Roberts trying really hard to be "topical". Unfortunately the "triggerhappy cops gun down a misunderstood minority" analogy doesn't really play considering Cyclonus just put a sword through the chest of the ship's captain. I mean, you're not going to see a Black Lives Matter protest erupt if the cops gun down a guy who just assassinated Obama...

I think that was more the last two parter, here the "There are people on the Lost Light really hate Cyclonus" thing has been set up far enough in advance (presumably for this moment) for it not to feel topical, it just doesn't really make any sense in relation to their attitude with Megatron!

One worry I do have is that after Brainstorm got rehabilitated despite attempting to destroy established history, Getaway will wind up being forgiven and back with the team as well.

Warcry
2015-11-27, 07:31 PM
And I wouldn't have been upset to see Tailgate offed. In an equation between deceitful idiot child and ancient pragmatist the potential for character writing is very heavily weighed to the latter.
Agreed. Between the two, Cyclonus is by far the more interesting character.

I don't really buy Whirl as that much of a moral void at this point.
I think the script seems to go back and forth on this point, sometimes he's actually an utterly amoral psycho and other times he comes off a relatively normal (if broken) person trying really hard to be that amoral psycho because it makes life less painful.

Maybe I'm overthinking it but I'm not sure Rodimus could just boot Atomizer, at least without consequence. The minute Rodders tells him to leave, that's when news of the list comes out. Yeah, it was fake, but Rodimus didn't know that. He willingly took it and read it when he thought it was real, after saying that even looking at it could end him.
I dunno, I think he could probably explain it away. I mean, he is an authority figure and Atomizer was admitting a crime to him. He couldn't just ignore that, right? :glance:

"Hey Magnus, Atomizer is up to no good. He claimed to have a copy of the voting records from the captaincy vote and wanted me to use it to kick people off the ship! Obvs I seized it as evidence. I investigated and it turned out to be false, but isn't that still illegal?"

And then Atomizer gets locked up, probably before Rodimus has finished his second sentence.

Too many things happen here to facilitate end results. There is no reason Cyclonus goes for his sword. He knows that there is something going on with Getaway and Tailgate so at the very least he can explain himself.
There's also no reason why he doesn't just phone Megatron (or Tailgate if he suspects his involvement) and warn them that something nefarious is afoot.

Now that you all point it out, Tailgate has gotten dumb. And he didnt have to. The way he has been potrayed (big headed upstart) means that Getaway could have just played to his ego.
Agreed. The whole silly, "you need to brainwash Megatron if you want to marry me!" sales pitch was over the top. The sort of ego-boosting and alienation from Cyclonus that Getaway had been buttering him up with would have led a bit more naturally to a "someone has to do this, Tailgate, and you're the only one brave and cool enough to pull it off!" angle.

If the previous scenes between them had had the same emotional depth as the one in this issue, then sure, this sort of manipulation would have made sense. But in the previous Getaway/Tailgate scenes it felt like it was being played out more like a bad-influence teenage friend or boyfriend than ZOMGLOVE4EVAR. I'm not saying it couldn't have gotten there, but there was a big leap between the two that we didn't actually see play out.

Now that last bit is just trying to troll me!
Yes.

Thinking on it... I wonder if it's not so much a case the gun has a lack of set up, but that the gun itself is set up for something? As the caption informs us, Tyrest took it off Getaway, and Tyrest is both still out there and can teleport about the place. And wasn't it Slag's theory that Getaway had been turned by Tyrest during captivity? An evil team up perhaps?
Good point! I think I'd pondered the Getaway/Tyrest connection before, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was something there. But I hadn't made the connection between that and the gun. I'd just assumed that Red Alert and co. found it in a stash on Luna 1 and shipped it to Getaway on the LL.

I'm assuming the gun had just been set to wipe any of Whirl's conspiracy related memories rather than specific details.
My thought was that you had to be a whole lot more precise than that. Otherwise you're going to wipe out a whole swath of Whirl's memories and he's going to wake up and be completely lost like Skids was. Which would not only be highly suspicious, but would point directly back at the only guys on the ship known to use memory-wipe guns in the past, and would in turn probably lead to Whirl trying to murder Getaway. Not the best outcome, that.

But to erase just the incriminating memories and absolutely nothing else would require you to be able to single out just those memories and nothing else. Which would have to mean that Getaway's attack was premeditated, right? Except he didn't know he was going to do it until he did it. Unless he's so super-paranoid that he always keeps the gun updated and ready to fire just in case, not just for Whirl but also Atomizer and anyone else in on their conspiracy.

Presumably they just want to be completely removed from any blame or fallout themselves, can you imagine how Optimus would react if it had been pulled off?
An obligatory show of disappointment set in place to mask a bigger feeling of relief than he'd ever thought possible? :)

It's worth noting Cyclonus has also had a drink he's not used to and which he took to aid out of character behaviour, so he's not in the best frame of mind at the end either.
I dunno, "they were drunk!" just seems like a bit of a cop-out to me. Like the author is saying "No, see, that scene wasn't out of character at all! They're just acting that way because of the booze!" Especially when the characters involved are robots who can apparently turn their intoxication on and off like a light switch.

One worry I do have is that after Brainstorm got rehabilitated despite attempting to destroy established history, Getaway will wind up being forgiven and back with the team as well.
I'm not sure what's worse. That, or the thought that they'll arbitrarily punish him severely for it even though there's a dozen people aboard who've done worse. Hopefully he'll have the decency to die so that we can avoid both scenarios.

Patapsco
2015-11-27, 07:39 PM
My own theory: Megatron uses Tailgate trying to wipe his memories and the overreaction of the security crew (I don't think they did, personally) to force Rodimus into exile

KingMob
2015-11-28, 03:08 AM
Everyone is on the money in their general assessments, I think, good reading as usual. I just wanted to post to throw in a couple of (maybe) additions to points.

Whirl started setting the clocks the minute he turned his back on the others (ooh, how literal), ie he knew he was running the risk of being incapacitated.

Atomizer in turn pulls the nudge gun out as soon as Whirl turns his back, the fact that he's the one that shoots Whirl and has it ready before Whirl's even done talking indicates he and Getaway had indeed pre-planned the possible need to blank Whirl and were more than up for it, so presumably the charge had been pre-programmed to the specific needs discussed.

Cyclonus just sprinting for Megatron's room without raising an alarm is a character fault I can also overlook; people don't always behave logically, and I can buy him not thinking to call for help. He's a loner after all.

The LL security team have been shown ready to go guns blazing before - I think it was Aquafend who wanted to bust into Cyclonus + Tailgate's room ASAP, but Drift was all like 'I need to achieve harmony with the corridor strip lighting first mate' - and every time we see them there's more of them and they're increasingly tooled up; I can buy that the various incidents on board are making them more jumpy and willing to pull the trigger at provocation, and that the 'people hate Cyclonus' thing still has gas in the tank.

Yeah, they shot the crap out of Cyclonus, but he did go for his weapon after being told to cease and desist. There was no clear character or plot reason for Cyclonus to suicide by cop (it's Whirl that has the deathwish, Cyc wants to live), so what was he gonna do, take on five guys with guns levelled with his sword from thirty feet away just so Tailgate could get into the shuttle bay? Wishful thinking there, Cyclonus. Don't really get that the ancient pragmatist, as so wonderfully described, would go for that as lovely as the actual next events were portrayed. Then again, we are all fools for love.

Unicron
2015-11-28, 01:13 PM
Atomizer in turn pulls the nudge gun out as soon as Whirl turns his back, the fact that he's the one that shoots Whirl and has it ready before Whirl's even done talking indicates he and Getaway had indeed pre-planned the possible need to blank Whirl and were more than up for it, so presumably the charge had been pre-programmed to the specific needs discussed.

It's quite possible we're overthinking how specific the nudge gun settings are. I'm thinking the blank bullet may simply be of the 'forget the details of your current mission and who sent you' nature, rather than 'forget about crazy anti-Megatron plans and your co-conspirators Getaway and Atomizer'.

If it were the latter, that means Prowl sent agents into the field with a device that if captured basically screams 'Prowl sent me to do some nasty stuff'. That doesn't sound like the Prowl we know and love, does it?

Summerhayes
2015-11-28, 02:08 PM
Avoided the content of your post as I don't want to be spoiled. Presumably, however, you will be PM'ing Summerhayes with it? :devil:

Cheers mate!
Have read it now though, and am making my way through this thread. For the record, I thought the issue was a banger.

Summerhayes
2015-11-28, 05:42 PM
Right, I've read through this thread, I've re-read the book and I've got a bone or two to pick with all you haters and doubters!

Small thing: Cyclonus says " I haven't drunk this in years", referring specifically to the glass of Old Corroder Swerve pours for him. This stuff could get him unbelievably wrecked even if he has been seen drinking in earlier issues.

Agreed. Between the two, Cyclonus is by far the more interesting character.

I'd agree that Cyclonus was a very interesting character, but I think this would make an appropriate and satisfying end to his story. Tailgate, on the other hand, has loads of room to grow. He's like classic Marvel Bumblebee in a comic that actually allows for movement.

The LL security team . . . every time we see them there's more of them and they're increasingly tooled up; I can buy that the various incidents on board are making them more jumpy and willing to pull the trigger at provocation, and that the 'people hate Cyclonus' thing still has gas in the tank.


I think this is absolutely on the money.

The big issue I want to comment on, and which I think I'm extremely well qualified to discuss, is the drunkenness. Neither Cyclonus or Tailgate acted "out of character"; Cyclonus was trying to save TG, and 'Gatesy Babes was thinking he'd be impressing his friends and stopping Megatron be evil.

The only difference was that they both acted much stupider and much more rashly than they normally would. As someone who gets drunk on the regular, never mind being a newborn or a geriatric samurai, I can empathise with this. Drunk Luke will pick a fight with five guys twice his size if they threaten a girl he likes, will phoenix splash his friend who's lying in a bush and give himself a big scar on his arm or will use a big breadknife to clean up egg then throw it into the sink, miss, and have it bounce bag and nearly kill him. Hypothetically speaking, of course, he might even take his shirt off and ride the bonnet of his friend's car like a flying carpet then get stopped by the police.

I fully believe everything these two did, and also the overreaction of law enforcement officers towards someone arbitrarily different from them.

Denyer
2015-11-28, 06:41 PM
I might be reaching, but Cyc probably has a bit on you in age and sense.

He also doesn't look particularly dead. If he is, that came off about as well as the door thing with Overlord.

Summerhayes
2015-11-28, 06:49 PM
I might be reaching, but Cyc probably has a bit on you in age and sense.


Maybe, but I have him beat in drinking experience and knowing I definitely don't stand a chance in certain fights.

Auntie Slag
2015-11-29, 08:13 PM
Wow, I think I love Whirl even more now. If only they could make a plush toy of him for Christmas, full of pointy edges that injures kids because, you know he is Whirl after all.

Felt so sorry for him seeing his empty room, though.

What really interested me was the final page where Tailgate seemingly erupts in light. I think this has something to do with his original panic attacks that featured in the first issue of MTMTE... that bit where Chromedome lifts him out of the hole on the Mitteous plateau, Tailgate catches sight of Whirl unconscious on the floor and panics, his eyes flaring and he repeats "He's dead, he's dead, he's dead I killed him".

I always felt like that statement was referring to something other than what Tailgate was seeing in front of him. With Cyclonus seemingly dead, this may have triggered Tailgate's ultimate panic.

I'd say there's more than meets the eye with Tailgate. And I'm not convinced its solely down to the great sword saving his life-thing. I think maybe that is something that has amplified his er... panic energy!

Fantastic job on the art and colouring too. I didn't clock right away that it wasn't Milne on duty, and the colouring; that page where Cyclonus is holding Tailgate close whilst they're getting shot to hell, that was gorgeous. Felt desperate and stark, like a late scene in Tron where it appears the bad guys are going to win.

Auntie Slag
2015-11-29, 08:18 PM
Also, I think Cyclonus reached for his sword on purpose. He had no intention of using it on the crew, it was to get himself shot to bits and provoke Tailgate's strange reaction.

Summerhayes
2015-11-29, 08:22 PM
Tailgate also had weird eyes when he disarmed the bomb. That's my contribution, I'm not going to pretend I have a useful idea where any of this is going...

Auntie Slag
2015-11-29, 08:28 PM
I think because there's not enough to go on re: Tailgate's panicking. But that moment in Issue 1 has always intrigued me, as well as his comment to Cyclonus about Rivets field, being born two weeks before Ark 1 took off.

Now that's a luxury of time compared to poor Getaway, who was airdropped into battle before his eyes had even opened. So I'm confused why Cyclonus was so shocked at Tailgate's origin comment. Maybe because Tailgate was forged and not a knockoff/MTO like Getaway.

Perhaps there's something significant that a 'born' Transformer needs more time to get up to speed, because everything isn't drilled into his head like an MTO.

Or maybe because Cyclonus knows about an incredibly interesting event surrounding Rivet's Field at that time?

I'm guessing its something weird and mystical, because Ratchet was fixing Tailgate in issue one and found nothing of interest, commenting that Tailgate was so old that his insides were "All pulleys, levers and pendulums".

Summerhayes
2015-11-29, 08:53 PM
I always read it just as everyone assuming Tailgate had lead a long and interesting life but actually he was dying of old age despite being very young.

Auntie Slag
2015-11-29, 09:01 PM
I'm sure you're spot on with that comment. I'm just always trying to find a reason for stuff. The pacing of that scene (in issue one) seemed deliberate. I expected Tailgate to freak out the moment he saw Whirl, instead it takes a moment. And that's been rattling around in my head since 2012.

I don't mind if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Mr. Roberts knows we are picking up on things like this, because I think he would too, in our shoes... which is what makes it great fun!