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View Full Version : 30th Anniversary TF:TM vinyl wonderment!


Auntie Slag
2015-11-29, 07:21 PM
I just saw this. For rabid completists I guess, but it does look a bit nice, eh?

Super-deluxe 30th anniversary edition (http://www.relevantrecordcafe.co.uk/product/transformers-the-movie-original-soundtrack-black-friday-2015/)

One disc is red and etched with the Autobot logo, and the other is purple with a Decepticon etching. The sleeve is also an unusual gatefold.

Cliffjumper
2015-11-29, 07:57 PM
Oh, that's beautiful. If only it had the score instead of Stan, Lion and the rest of that shit.

Sades
2015-11-29, 11:22 PM
I would, but won't.

Tetsuro
2015-11-30, 05:12 AM
Oh, that's beautiful. If only it had the score instead of Stan, Lion and the rest of that shit.
Why not both?

Skyquake87
2015-11-30, 08:30 PM
Because a lot of that hair metal on the soundtrack is absolute poo. I think the only I particularly care for is 'Instruments Of Destruction' (were all these real bands, btw? NRG? Really?) And Weird Al's contributions are some of his lesser efforts.

The score is brilliant though.

Denyer
2015-11-30, 09:21 PM
How old was everyone when they first heard it?

I like virtually all of both score and soundtrack personally, but it's mentally overlaid with a jumble of images and dialogue -- the music's a very integral part of the film. Dare to be Stupid probably being least favourite track because it's a palette cleanser in the film, not a closer, and a completely different style to the rest. Don't mind a bit of hair metal. One of my favourite random compilation albums being this --

http://www.dio.net/pictures_cd/hard_n_heavy_cdn_back.jpg

Auntie Slag
2015-11-30, 09:30 PM
Its not very clear whether its only the soundtrack or if it includes the film score too. Its two discs, and one side of each is emblazoned with the Autobot or Decepticon insignia. Would that make that side unplayable? I'm guessing it probably does, hence the need for two slabs of vinyl.

But maybe the score is on the other one?

Denyer, when you ask how old everyone was, do you mean when they heard it via the movie, or the actual soundtrack on LP/Cassette? If its the latter then I think about 14/15. It was cool being able to listen to the full versions of each piece.

I think only Lion had the full TF:TM theme play during the film (over the end credits), and even then they repeated sections of the song, twice I think, in order to fill the length of the credit reel.

Denyer
2015-11-30, 10:01 PM
The movie more-so than the standalone, but obvs chime in with other experiences. Heard it not long after the VHS came out as far as I recall... probably a rental originally. Soundtrack separately I think I got from HMV as a Christmas present some time in the 90s. Score separately end of the 90s as low quality web files? BotCon discs probably around 2005 (one of which -- 'Till All Are One -- went back on eBay and basically paid for the other... kept Their Darkest Hour because it was more accurate, and it's nicely paired with by the release about a year ago that includes Legacy.)

The release in the first post is the OST, by the way, rather than the score;

http://www.piccadillyrecords.com/prod/VariousArtists-TransformersTheMovieOST30thAnniversaryCollectorsEdition-Sony-106651.html

Cliffjumper
2015-11-30, 11:36 PM
I think the soundtrack works as a soundtrack to TF:TM, a somewhat melodramatic, uneven cartoon based on a kids' show with a couple of bits of the absolute best things in the franchise's history and a lot of the worst.

In that context it works, and watching Prime drive away from his apathetic troops to his death without Stan, Ironhide take quarter of an hour to realise half of his crew are dead without "Instruments of Destruction" or not having to decide which of Ron Friedman or "Twat" Al Yankovic deserve to die the most while the runtime's being filled on Junk is unthinkable.

But I can never, ever see myself going "Hey, I'll put a record on. How about some Spectre General?". Digital files cover the morbid curiousity to some extent but what goes for the film goes for the music in symbiosis - there's no point whatsoever in listening to "The Touch" unless Prime's running over Coneheads while it's on.

(all that said, the number of times I've turned the film off when Optimus dies probably now outnumber the times I've actually watched it all the way through)

Dead Man Wade
2015-12-01, 12:16 AM
You can only polish a turd so much.

Sades
2015-12-01, 02:19 AM
I wasn't overly attached to it when it first came around, but the re-discovery happened about 1996 or so. Was going through a hair metal/glam metal/80's music phase and we found the VHS in a video rental store. Still love the soundtrack, personally. Movie, ditto. I think it's all right for what it is.

Tetsuro
2015-12-01, 05:37 AM
Its two discs, and one side of each is emblazoned with the Autobot or Decepticon insignia. Would that make that side unplayable? I'm guessing it probably does, hence the need for two slabs of vinyl.
They're picture discs which are fully playable despite having a graphic emblazoned all over them. Here's the discogs listing with better info (http://www.discogs.com/Various-Transformers-The-Movie-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack/release/7782037).

Because a lot of that hair metal on the soundtrack is absolute poo.
Hush, I like "Nothing's Gonna Stand in Our Way".

Skyquake87
2015-12-01, 10:05 PM
I'd agree with the sentiment that the film has the soundtrack it deserves - polished OTT FM friendly pomp-metal of the day. You can keep Weird Al though.

Having not seen the movie since ...pfft , 1987 ish? I found the soundtrack in Virgin Records (who they?) on import in Leeds in 1995. It cost me 16 and even now I'm wondering why I paid that for it. I remember listening to it at the time and thinking how horribly dated it sounded - that weird disconnect between the '80s and '90s when there was a definite shutting of the door on some aspects of popular music. Probably not helped by '90s metal being a bit more aggressive and slightly less ridiculous than the stuff around in the '80s. All of which made this a purchase I wasn't so proud of. 16. F**k me. What was I thinking? Probably not much more than "oh, hey, something Transformers related!"

Ryan F
2015-12-05, 09:53 AM
I actually really like the soundtrack, and was absolutely thrilled when I managed to find the CD in the Virgin Megastore in Norwich in my first year of Uni (1997). As a kid I wore out the VHS of the movie, loved all the music on it, and so finding the CD was actually like getting my hands on a holy grail item.

To be fair, 80s synth rock is totally my genre anyway - indeed some of my favourite current bands are those who deliberately try to recapture that sort of sound, like Houston, H.E.A.T and Reckless Love, so I was always going to embrace this music anyway.

What I would say though, is that while I like the music on CD, I do think it's really, really overbearing in the film itself. Transformers is a film of wonders, of visuals, of moments, and some of the music really undercuts that and changes the mood of the entire thing. Ironhide's death should have been a major 'oh my god' moment, instead it seems more like a wacky music video as someone screams "whooah-ooooohhhh" over the top of it.

The bits that work best in the film are 'Dare to be Stupid' (a ludicrous song that's perfectly suited to "Me Grimlock not kisser! Me King", The Death of Optimus Prime (probably the only time that DiCola dials it down a bit), and Unicron's Theme, which is a delightfully dark and doomy funeral march.

I've seen the film so many times that the visuals and sounds are totally ingrained in my head, but I do wonder if the movie would play better with a more traditional orchestra soundtrack.

Auntie Slag
2015-12-05, 10:45 AM
I like it for its kitsch value. Standout tracks for me are Dare and The Touch. Then Lion's movie theme for its utterly awesome and brilliantly OTT guitar solo.

I think the soundtrack fits the movie almost dead on, though I'm not really a fan of Dare to be Stupid, and Death of Optimus Prime bores me a bit. It would be great if this 2-disc set had the Vince DiCola score, like Cliffjumper said.

Cliffjumper
2015-12-05, 01:08 PM
Really don't get the whole Al Yankovic thing, TBH. If you have to actually a description in quotation marks ahead of your name you're doing it wrong. Guess it's that whole Americans loving shit comedy thing.

inflatable dalek
2015-12-05, 01:12 PM
So was the original vinyl release two discs as well? Or have the spread it out over the two to charge more money for it (which I don't object to, people who think vinyl was better and are bores about it are second only to adult toy collectors as people who deserve to be fleeced)? Two seems a bit ostentatious for a relatively unimportant album and it's not an especially long release.

Cliffjumper
2015-12-05, 01:15 PM
Better sound quality and durability (allows use of heavier vinyl too). Which is why all the current stuff that comes out is double LPs.

Which is kind-of ironic as they all cost ~25 new and aren't likely to be given to many kids.

inflatable dalek
2015-12-05, 01:29 PM
Going for better sound quality on releases aimed at the die hard vinyl fans has a degree of irony to it considering the main reason (at least from conversations I've had from many of the more evangelical ones over the years) they seem to prefer the medium over CD/digital is that it doesn't sound as good which is...err...more real or something. I'm not sure, my eyes usually gloss over when they really start going.

Cliffjumper
2015-12-05, 01:36 PM
Covers are bigger, no shit jewel cases, it's more fun and just about as durable as most CDs mark really easily. It's that simple.

inflatable dalek
2015-12-05, 01:41 PM
Covers are bigger, no shit jewel cases, it's more fun and just about as durable as most CDs mark really easily. It's that simple.


Not for a lot of people who've cornered me at parties.

Though of course, everyone who enjoys the medium here is a half sane vinyl fan rather than one of the odder ones. Those actually talk very like people who don't understand why everyone doesn't want a massive HD TV and blu ray player rather than sticking with DVD's and not even being entirely sure if their TV is HD.

As for the score, it's rather like the film itself. Clearly terrible if it didn't imprint on you at the right age, pure joy if it did though.

Auntie Slag
2015-12-06, 11:58 PM
A mate of mine gave me his original vinyl copy when he upgraded to the CD version. It is pretty cool, but I'm no vinyl junkie either, definitely prefer CD where electronic music seems like it has far more punch (Kraftwerk, Jean Michel Jarre, Gary Numan).

Oxygene is sublime on CD through a nice sound system. Turn off the lights & you feel like you're journeying in late 70's space, man. I did that once on a slow summer evening, it felt so cool. I was a sphere of energy that could see all forms of everything.

I got my copy for 10p from a charity shop. And they didn't even want the 10p, it was just a suggested donation... for that much greatness!

Skyquake87
2015-12-07, 08:39 AM
Underworld's 'dubnobasswithmyheadman' album is my electronic album of choice for that kind of experience. Also really good to listen to when you're a state after a night on the tizer.

As for vinyl, I own some mainly through picking it up cheap second hand. A lot of singles on 7" were only a 1 new, which made it an easy way to check out new bands. Disadvantage is mainly in the space the stuff takes up, and its why I got rid of 80% of my collection.

Before the CiN spoilt singles for everyone in 1998, I loved all the fun stuff that was done with vinyl singles - different colours, die-cut sleeves, different materials used etc, a lot of this stuff was just glorious and CD sized reproductions didn't do it justice.

Pour example: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Pop+Will+Eat+Itself+vinyl+images&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjF-Lnnq8nJAhVI0hoKHaxNCrYQsAQIIw&biw=1600&bih=799

and : https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Jesus+Jones+vinyl+images&biw=1600&bih=799&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjd27P4q8nJAhXI1RoKHQeEBLMQ_AUIBygC

Sound quality-wise, the heavyweight vinyl is the better stuff. Electronic stuff sounds better to my ears on digital formats too, and if you're listening to vinyl, its much more something you have to pay attention to, I guess, as you have to be there flipping the thing over when the A-side ends (always found stereos that could play both sides gave variable sound quality when playing the b-side).

Not so hot on vinyl these days, mainly for space and because suddenly retailers of cottoned onto to it being 'fashionable', and now we're showered with 25 (!) vinyl releases, which is just the sort of nonsense that got the industry into problems in the first place.

Auntie Slag
2015-12-07, 09:00 AM
Word.

Cyberstrike nTo
2015-12-07, 01:36 PM
Covers are bigger, no shit jewel cases, it's more fun and just about as durable as most CDs mark really easily. It's that simple.

Depends on well you take of them.

And most record covers are just cheap cardboard and they are as crappy as any CD jewel case. At least CDs I can buy replacement cases pretty easily.

Denyer
2015-12-07, 08:19 PM
just about as durable as most CDs mark really easily. It's that simple.
Eh, in twenty years and buying second-hand CDs in volume, I've run into the problem in low double digits.

Work in a player, not necessarily, but given reasonable optical drives it takes a bit of effort to destroy the things to the point they can't be read and as high a quality as was originally put on them obtained. There are some dodgy ones with manufacturing defects (both early and newer) plus some crap with breaking the book standards from some publishers, mostly historical, but even uncased CD-Rs kept in the car last pretty well. It's a durable format even when dye-based, and the reproduction costs for copies to handle for those that want their music to spin are negligible. The same goes for DVDs -- easy to copy and therefore ideal for kids. You can even buff out a certain amount of damage.

Differing dynamic ranges can be debated, but on the topic of physical wear and tear not many people are using laser turntables.

It cost me 16
The 90s were a dark era, definitely. Nirvana albums going for 20 and up in some places and CD writers only just starting to hit the market.

There was some fun stuff with CD packaging and gimmicks as well. The Wildhearts did a lot of it -- printed images in the same colour as the case, lenticular, fake money, textured sleeves, grass mat for you to water, one of the promos had a miniature pump...

Auntie Slag
2015-12-07, 10:50 PM
Oh yeah, forgot about the buffing option. That's saved a few discs for me, but the more densely the information is packed onto a disc, the more susceptible it becomes to read errors. I think I remember someone in the film thread in GD mentioning how easy it is to ruin a Blu-Ray with a scratch where the same film on DVD would play just fine.

Do you think that's true of any storage medium? The higher the density, the higher the failure rate? I was talking to a guy today about vinyl, cassettes, CD and hard drives. His NAS drives fail more than anything else because they're quite dense and are spinning 24 hours a day, so I guess they just wear out.

Makes me think how advertising spiel would make you believe mechanical hard drives are awful compared to SSD's, but I was using computers 25-30+ years old (with original HDD's) over the weekend and they were running fine.

But back on topic; the price of a new Vinyl album where I live tends to be around 20-25 unless its extremely limited like this TF:TM release.

Cliffjumper
2015-12-08, 12:42 AM
If you look after one it will last and if you don't look after another it won't

Brief flirting with having an opinion followed by the usual veer into slow handclap territory. Keep firing that neuron, champ! You'll get there!

Jewel cases are shit - three brittle pieces of plastic; breaking one makes it look awful. A simple plastic bag however protects a record just fine.

Eh, in twenty years and buying second-hand CDs in volume, I've run into the problem in low double digits.

Bit of a dicier hit rate here, though in fairness I take better care of records.

Work in a player, not necessarily, but given reasonable optical drives it takes a bit of effort to destroy the things to the point they can't be read and as high a quality as was originally put on them obtained.

Which surely just makes them data discs? I'm all for digital music but MP3 players, decent-sized computer hard-drives, all music being free now and all that jazz effectively makes CDs just expensive and inefficient to my mind; they're too shit to be a physical manifestation of favourite music and not useful enough to be convenient (remember balancing your personal CD player on public transport like some sort of robot waiter?).

There was some fun stuff with CD packaging and gimmicks as well. The Wildhearts did a lot of it -- printed images in the same colour as the case, lenticular, fake money, textured sleeves, grass mat for you to water, one of the promos had a miniature pump...

Coloured vinyl, picture discs, gatefolds, diecuts, scented lyric sheets, art that isn't the size of a coaster (seriously, take any great album cover; shrink it by 75% - improvement?), looped playouts...

Big pluses of vinyl for me:


Gigantic artwork. If I'm buying an album so it's a physical representation of said album it needs to be worth buying.
No bonus tracks. If it was good enough to be on the album it would be on the album.
My record player is louder than guns.
Really easy to see whether a record's going to work or not. Records either work or don't work the same way on whatever record player.
You can't skip tracks. You want to skip tracks? Get an MP3 player or like better music, because you're doing albums wrong either way.
Don't come in jewel cases.
Booklets that can be removed without the edges being destroyed by those stupid little stubs to stop them falling out of the badly designed cases

Denyer
2015-12-08, 01:46 AM
Which surely just makes them data discs? I'm all for digital music but MP3 players, decent-sized computer hard-drives, all music being free now and all that jazz effectively makes CDs just expensive and inefficient to my mind; they're too shit to be a physical manifestation of favourite music and not useful enough to be convenient (remember balancing your personal CD player on public transport like some sort of robot waiter?).
It's an artificial distinction -- optical media is just data storage. The discs are simply a backup and proof of purchase/ownership.

In the same way I might watch the special features on a DVD once, if that, inlays that aren't incredibly fascinating go in the bin. As do shit extras discs. The music's what's of interest.

I do generally listen to albums rather than tracks these days, but that's because stuff that isn't consistently good gets ignored unless individual tracks are really good but what's around them isn't as much. And whilst I like, say, the first three Eels albums as listens, the rest is patchier and I put most of the tracks that wound up on the official Essential together years before they did (and disagree with other selections). It's nice when things come perfect and fully formed, but **** artistic pretensions about songs not also being like LEGO. **** artificial restrictions and reverence, they went out of the window with magnetic tape and recording things off radio.

In terms of perspective, I'd go with music generally being a soundtrack rather than an event.

No bonus tracks. If it was good enough to be on the album it would be on the album.
I miss the days of singles coming with slots for bands to experiment, get creative and occasionally hit on standalone or sequenced but eclectic gems, personally. These days songs often get released solo and there aren't many triumphs along the lines of the Lightning Seeds' Ready or Not backed by Another Girl Another Planet and Whole Wide World, or Mighty Mighty Bosstones' The Impression That I Get with a double punch of Is It and Storm Hit. Or pretty much every single and EP the Wildhearts released up to and including Endless Nameless before Ginger started believing his own legend. Or even stand out cover versions such as GnR's Sympathy for the Devil.

Do you think that's true of any storage medium? The higher the density, the higher the failure rate?
Essentially yes. Or where the media is expected to degrade under normal use because reading the information is a more physical process, such as with punch cards or vinyl.

Tetsuro
2015-12-08, 10:21 AM
Big pluses of vinyl for me:
...and the part where, thanks to being an analog format, they're not subject to overzealous boosting where the dynamic range goes down the shitter.

I used to think that was something only audiophiles care about, but I've come across far too many CD tracks where the clipping is palpable.

Fortunately, it's a problem that has manifested itself slowly over the past three decades so CDs released in the 80's and early 90's are relatively free of this problem.