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Patapsco
2016-02-12, 10:03 PM
One thing... SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

http://i.imgur.com/K4kmiAM.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/okkolIP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/f29Tx0b.jpg

Loving Megatron's "rumbled" line

Unicron
2016-02-12, 10:35 PM
Ok, that's kind of fun. Megatron sitting on high, doling out strategic advice while Rodimus complains and everyone still follows orders.

So... Magnus with a hammer again. What does everyone reckon, new preferred melee weapon or another battlefield improvisation?

I wonder what's on that first page that we aren't seeing that leads into this flashback.

Patapsco
2016-02-12, 11:34 PM
I *think* that's Optimus in the bottom panel and judging by the reaction lines above his head he's just been told something shocking maybe?

Summerhayes
2016-02-17, 12:41 PM
Sorry to be the idiot, but do we have a definite date for this yet?

Warcry
2016-02-17, 04:52 PM
I'm getting the impression that Megatron doesn't understand how the whole "pacifism" thing works. I mean, the reason why he had such an insane number of "flowers" on the Necrobot's world was because of how many deaths he'd ordered in battle, not just because of people he'd killed personally. So I'm not sure that refusing to personally kill anyone but still sitting on the bridge and directing his companions on how best to kill people really counts as turning over a new leaf for Megs. I mean, by that logic Osama bin Laden was a pacifist.

Hopefully that's touched on later.

Oh, and superpowered Tailgate can **** off.

Unicron
2016-02-17, 05:17 PM
I'm getting the impression that Megatron doesn't understand how the whole "pacifism" thing works. I mean, the reason why he had such an insane number of "flowers" on the Necrobot's world was because of how many deaths he'd ordered in battle, not just because of people he'd killed personally. So I'm not sure that refusing to personally kill anyone but still sitting on the bridge and directing his companions on how best to kill people really counts as turning over a new leaf for Megs. I mean, by that logic Osama bin Laden was a pacifist.

Hopefully that's touched on later.

Oh, and superpowered Tailgate can **** off.

Well, he did order 'no casualties'. Though given it's Whirl and Cyclonus he's talking...

Patapsco
2016-02-17, 06:58 PM
Sorry to be the idiot, but do we have a definite date for this yet?

next Wednesday. Number 49 slipped I believe due to I think one of the artists on a future issue getting ill so they delayed 49 as a precaution, but it looks like the slack has been picked up, so to speak

Slipped to 9th March. Apparently

Oh, and superpowered Tailgate can **** off.

can I just quote this forever and ever and ever? Because that's what I'm going to do

Patapsco
2016-03-02, 07:37 AM
A word of warning: the entire issue has been leaked and is out in the wild, so go looking this up at your own risk

Patapsco
2016-03-04, 08:28 PM
Full preview. Talk about grim...

http://www.newsarama.com/28256-megatron-seeks-redemption-in-transformers-more-than-meets-the-eye-50-preview.html

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-06, 12:07 AM
Happy to wait another few days. My mind is already running through whats going on. The obvious is Tarn is holding them all at gun point before forcing them to transform and take their cogs (well to me, it feels the obvious). Is the distribution of the footage to announce a new Decepticon army under Tarn? Again, that's what feels obvious.

Well prepared to be wrong of course.

inflatable dalek
2016-03-06, 10:12 AM
In keeping with the comedic delays this has suffered, the British release has been put back another week (though digital will be on the 9th regardless).

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-08, 04:25 PM
Is it Wednesday yet?? Wanna read this!

Patapsco
2016-03-08, 06:37 PM
I have a confession to make: I read the leaked copy because goddamnit curiosity got the best of me. I have made no comment ANYWHERE about it, except one possibly cryptic one on Twitter. This has been bloody killing me, partly because there's a part of me that wants to read it properly in the format it was intended. Well, the digital version anyway

Denyer
2016-03-08, 07:16 PM
Paper sub copy will get here eventually and singles will get replaced with trades eventually, so I don't have any particular qualms about reading digital copies that turn up.

Patapsco
2016-03-08, 07:33 PM
Paper sub copy will get here eventually and singles will get replaced with trades eventually, so I don't have any particular qualms about reading digital copies that turn up.

I'm doing the same and buying the digital copies, then the hardback compendiums for when I eventually do something dumb to my hard drive

Patapsco
2016-03-09, 08:28 AM
It's here! Effort post later

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-09, 04:59 PM
So....



Spoiler note






In a quick summing up, Great dramatic issue, reads at a very fast pace with lots of little character points along the way. Art is lovely, back up strip is great as a stand alone piece and then with a nice link to the main story at the end. Dialogue is at the top of its game.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Getaway twist. I mean I really like the twist but I couldn't help but thnk that its a stretch that so much of the crew backs him - and what they effectively do to the Autobots who are trapped along with Megs is incredibly barbaric when you think about it. I'm amazed Hoist and Blaster go along with this. I think I might have bought it more if it had of been a character who was there from the start and had built bonds from the beginning. Certainly I could buy them wanting to sacrifice Megs but the idea that they would sell a fairly sizable party to the DJD is... hmm.

Needs a re-read. Its a thumbs up issue but I'm not sure how I feel about the twist - to be fair though it was done really well. It's hard to imagine things going back to a status quo after this.

Not saying it wont happen.

Patapsco
2016-03-09, 05:37 PM
right then, how to make sense of More Than Meets The Eye 50 or as I am going to call it "How To Enrage An Easily Enraged Fandom And Possibly Write Myself Into A Corner" because after the revelation about halfway through the fandom are going to go into a apoplectic rage and, well, it's the DJD innit?

First up, the back-up strip is what Roberts does really well: framing a story as one thing, before pulling the rug out from under you and turning it into something else. It reads like a straight up ghost story, as well as filling in a few timely blanks from previous issues including the other half of the conversation Prowl had with persons unknown all the way back in issue one. Course, with the reveal that the crew aren't ghosts and in fact using the remnants of Brainstorm's experiments to go back into the past it's actually a little bit emotional. Then of course Getaway shows up going back in time himself which brings about more questions than answers. Still, it's fill of plenty of "aww" moments which after the frankly grim ending to the main strip is needed.

So to the main event and even when now there's plenty of character building, red herrings and dense narrative bombshells that it can occasionally become a tad overwhelming as all these snippets of this and that and twists and turns bombard you at every turn.

The message at the start sounds grim and is undoubtably grim but who's sending the message? Knowing what we know at the end it's supposed to be the DJD but why does Red Alert recognise the gun pointed at Nightbeat's head? Is Magnus revealing that he let his guard down regret about the mutiny or a possible switch sides by Megatron? It's definitely deliberate, but it's quite telling who *doesn't* send a message as opposed to who does.

Megatron again gets his moments in the sun, from giving the order for the Autobots to roll out, to lashing out at Minimus to, and this is a tad disturbing, getting a bit irate that the crew have decided to help organics rather than mechanicals. Roberts, again, has done a magnificent job of giving *just* enough doubt as to Megatron's true intentions - does he really still believe organic life is below him, when a while later he says he's never been happier?

Of course the big reveal was that Getaway is not only free but has managed to turn practically the entire crew over to his way of thinking, and essentially sent Rodimus and chums to their deaths. And this was, I have to say, absolutely ******* brilliant storytelling from the second he appeared on the communicator screen to the second he hung up. Absolutely magnificent because Getaway's right. He's very bloody right.

When he gets going on Megatron, we as readers should be saying "well he does have a bloody good point" because he does. Megatron was a genocidal maniac and his punishment is to swan about having adventures! What does that say to the memories of the billions of Cybertronians he killed? The hundreds of billions of others he massacred? They don't matter? Also, what the hell does it say about Optimus and his wishy washy "everyone can be redeemed" bullshit? Has Getaway just signed his own death warrant and that of the remaining crew by openly defying Optimus' orders as well as sending two dozen Autobots to their deaths (more on that later).

If Getaway had finished there, I would have been sated but then he rounded on Rodimus and I'm not going to lie, I read it and nodded my head as I did. Rodimus is a terrible captain, the entire quest has been about him, and his own stupid ego got a lot of bots killed when Overlord went on his rampage.

Of course, I was right with Getaway and until he partially revealed that he'd set the DJD on them at which point he went from "Autobot airing very real and factual problems with the command of the ship" to "bastard has to die" and it was brilliant. He's now the best bad guy in both books and possibly the best bad guy of the whole series because like all the best villains, because what they think they're doing is right they can justify their actions. In Getaway's case, he doesn't need to justify it because he, and everyone else, knows that Megatron has to die and Rodimus is a shit captain.

So, there are now a massive string of unanswered questions left, but the main one has to be: How is Roberts going to extricate this without the ending feeling cheap? I remember watching something, or maybe reading something, whereby the villains became so much more powerful that there was never ever going to be a satisfactory resolution without it feeling like a cop out. And I don't want a cop out. But the DJD are able to slaughter an entire alternate Lost Light crew by themselves, but now they have Deathsaurus and his crew for back-up AND they're only going up against about 20 or so Autobots. This is Kate Winslet looking at the blonde lady hanging off the stern of Titanic in that movie - there's no way the blonde is going to survive

Other questions/theory/speculation are purely that:

- What do Bluestreak, Riptide and Mainframe feel about Getaway setting the DJD on their friends, seeing as they've seen what they can do close up?
- Does Getaway really believe that the DJD will just execute Megatron and leave the remaining Autobots alive?
- Will we find out if Tarn is roller or my "way out of left field" suggestion of Dominus Ambus?
- Will Megatron switch back to the Decepticons just to save the crew?
- Will someone sacrifice themselves to give Megatron some proper fuel so he can go down fighting?
- Was that Mainframe having second thoughts?
- Are any of the crew still on the Lost Light aware of what Getaway's done?
- Now that the gear symbol is confirmed as a symbol of the Knights, will the Scavengers finally join up with a purged Lost Light?
- Are the rest of the Lost Light-ers performing a very long con on Getaway, including Atomiser?

inflatable dalek
2016-03-09, 09:07 PM
So, let's put some thoughts together then:





Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucking hell. The moment Getaway first appeared on screen and it twigged what was going to be over the page. That is probably the best plot twist we've ever had in MTMTE. And it works! I don't know if "Everyone turns against Rodimus" was always part of the long term plan or if it was something that was come up with post the Megatron decision, but it's something that could only really have worked in this situation. Of course everyone aboard would hate Megatron that much. We've been saying it since season 2 started that the general acceptance made no sense, and behold it made no sense.

This basically justifies and nullifies my biggest complaint about the book (and, as Terome pointed out to me on Facebook, the drastically shrunken new crew deals with Cliffy's issue about the size of the cast. By strange coincidence Cliffy went all Biblical on one of my retweets at exactly the same time), Roberts is such a bastard.

Doing Time Wars on my website has been a good reminder that you shouldn't judge big issue number epics until they're done, but as an issue in and of itself this may have been just about perfect in every way, looking for flaws is hard. The scene between Megatron and Velocity felt a bit "Oh shit, these characters need a moment quick!" (though it was nice in the backup to have Roberts remind--possibly even establish as far as IDW are concerned?--Hoist also does medic stuff so as to make sure Getaway doesn't look insane for getting rid of the accident prone crews only doctor) and Milne's Starscream and Scoop looked odd... but that's about it.


Some random EXCLAMATION MARKS:


Megatron's class (as Thunderclash seemed to be getting along with Megatron and seems like the last person who'd mutiny, what happened to him? Actually, was Perceptor amongst the traitors? That would be hard as well)!

The Holly Hop teleport drive!

In an issue that generally asks us to have sympathy for Megatron it's still careful to show us his remaining darkside with his reluctance to help organics.

When shit gets real, Ravage knuckles down and acts as part of the team with no snark.

Swearing! Perfectly judged as well (also removes the last barrier between the content of Eugenesis and the current comics. If not for Death's Head you could do a hypothetical "Official" reprint of that book with no qualms now).

One thing I suspect everyone is going to overlook because of what comes afterwards is the empty hollow interior of the planet. What can it mean?

Getaway. What a bastard. This also means the page of this issue I created myself at the signing last week in crayon had at least one totally accurate prediction on it (Getaway actually quite enjoying himself). Come to that, it also had swearing and the backup strip's confirmation that it's really all been about the pub. I may sue.

Whilst I can understand why the crew did what they did, there's some heartlessness here. Ten is basically doomed for liking everyone equally (and Magnus a bit more), he couldn't even have answered Getaway's questions. Unless it was phrased as "On a scale of one to ten, how much would you disagree with a coup?". I also read it as Mainframe's "Suggestion" was Ten, but everyone else seems to have assumed it was Whirl (who I'd have thought would have gone anyway as muscle), so I must have misread that.

Also, Velocity and Rung are punished for following their SPACE Hippocratic oaths and treating all patients equally. Which seems harsh (though if you want proof Rung is an appalling psychiatrist he totally misread the mood of the crew there).

My main worry going forward is the possibility of the reset. There's some big names amongst the Lost Light crew, having them turn out to be treacherous bastards (even with good reason it's a massive betrayal of not just Rodimus but the reader. No one should recover from this) is as bold a change as ending the war was. If it sticks, that would be amazing. But Megatron has his time case and the backup establishes a nice weak area in Swerve's that it could be used in. Is some historical rewriting about to occur?

Or, is Getaway lying out his arse and the betrayal is the result of selective memory re-editing on his part? Will the memory triggering device on the Necrobots planet be used to put things right?

Let's hope not.

On the flashforward, I'll make my guess that Megatron is the one threatening the crew as part of an elaborate bluff to throw the DJD off by making them think he was faking his Autobot switch for EVIL reasons all along (we've established Tarn is a slave to bureaucracy, if there was some formal reason for allowing the six hours thing, he'd be obliged to go along with it).

On the second story... Just lovely in every way. And it got everyone in there! Considering Pipe's luck I suspect we'll at least briefly meet a short aquatic triple changer early in season 3.

Yeah, good stuff.

Patapsco
2016-03-09, 09:36 PM
I can imagine most of the crew wanting to off Megatron because he's robo-Hitler, and the Allies weren't exactly clamouring to put Hitler in charge of the World Jewish Council post WW2. I can imagine some, not all, of the crew wanting to get rid of Rodimus because, well, everything Getaway said - they've not really progressed, it is all about Rodimus - is actually true. But what I can't imagine any of them actually going through with letting them get slaughtered by the DJD, because then they're not Autobots any more, they're Decepticons

Unicron
2016-03-09, 10:05 PM
But what I can't imagine any of them actually going through with letting them get slaughtered by the DJD, because then they're not Autobots any more, they're Decepticons
That's assuming any of the crew actually knows about the DJD involvement. Tis possible Getaway made that call on his own

Patapsco
2016-03-09, 10:10 PM
That's assuming any of the crew actually knows about the DJD involvement. Tis possible Getaway made that call on his own

which is my own train of thinking: a counter-mutiny to the coup Getaway staged when everyone clocks on to just how big a Pandora's box he's opened. My very long term betting on this is that I'd say two from Getaway, Megatron and Rodimus don't survive until the story but in order for the MtMtE to have somewhere to go post this, Megatron and Rodimus have to survive

Death's Head
2016-03-09, 10:59 PM
I've seen it suggested elsewhere that Getaway and the rest genuinely believe the DJD will only take Megatron and leave everyone else. Either that, or Getaway is under the impression he's called in the Galactic Council but the DJD have intercepted the transmission.

It's early days yet, though. We haven't actually heard any of the other crew speak yet so I'm happy to wait and see on this point. I agree that Getaway's become a great villain. In contrast to the rest of the fandom, who are all like 'he's so creepy', it just makes me like him more!

Regarding the backup strip, the whole 'viewing the past as a ghost' thing is very similar to something that crops up as a throw-away idea in the comic series Transmetropolitan. It's probably just coincidence but it's rather nice.

Patapsco
2016-03-09, 11:08 PM
I've seen it suggested elsewhere that Getaway and the rest genuinely believe the DJD will only take Megatron and leave everyone else. Either that, or Getaway is under the impression he's called in the Galactic Council but the DJD have intercepted the transmission.

It's early days yet, though. We haven't actually heard any of the other crew speak yet so I'm happy to wait and see on this point. I agree that Getaway's become a great villain. In contrast to the rest of the fandom, who are all like 'he's so creepy', it just makes me like him more!

Regarding the backup strip, the whole 'viewing the past as a ghost' thing is very similar to something that crops up as a throw-away idea in the comic series Transmetropolitan. It's probably just coincidence but it's rather nice.

On the one hand, Getaway saw first hand what the DJD are capable of on the alternate Lost Light, but an intercepted transmission to the Galactic Council sounds almost like plausible deniability

Death's Head
2016-03-09, 11:25 PM
There's always the other explanation that Getaway knows exactly what's happening but is just that much of a bastard.

Which only makes me like him more, to be honest.

But that would require some convincing lies for the rest for the crew - plausible, perhaps, for a known charmer.

Patapsco
2016-03-09, 11:30 PM
I keep coming back that I can't buy any of the crew, even Atomiser, willingly sending Megatron's fan club into the hands of the DJD. I just can't. And it wouldn't surprise me if Getaway did in fact keep that detail a secret OR massaged the truth a little bit when disclosing it

When's the next issue out?

Death's Head
2016-03-10, 01:02 AM
I want a Titan Wars Getaway! :D

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-10, 01:58 AM
I keep coming back that I can't buy any of the crew, even Atomiser, willingly sending Megatron's fan club into the hands of the DJD. I just can't. And it wouldn't surprise me if Getaway did in fact keep that detail a secret OR massaged the truth a little bit when disclosing it

When's the next issue out?

Yeah, this is the thing I'm having a problem with. Its possible the crew don't know whats coming but... they would want megs dead. That's a key point to this. They cant just maroon him.

Also, the crew go after the warped signal which (I think) is sent because the DJD attack the necrobot - which means Getaway is ok with that.

Just don't seem quite right. Need more info...

But that aside, as issues go, its bloody good stuff. The sense of dread with ravage searching was excellent and Getaway is just brilliant. The best villains are justified and bar his overall decision to involve the DJD (and he must be aware that they destroyed the alt lost light so cant be trusted) Getaway fully explains his anger. Who knew "bop" had it in him. Also, for all the criticism of how Roberts wrote Rodimus as a fool - the pay-off was worth it!

As for these bots standing against the DJD, don't forget they don't have to win in a straight fire-fight. That's rarely how these things go. They have a lot of the necrobots tools to help them. I know this is a cheesy example but they could set a huge detonation off and escape through the necrobots portals that he used to move about. Heroic stories always involve a small bunch of goodies taking on seemingly unbeatable odds.

Must agree with those worrying about a reset. Roberts does seem to be pushing that this is going to cause a major shake up in the MTMTE story and maybe dying of the light refers to the lost light no longer being a part of the story (for now) and the next few arcs will involve Team rodimus chasing the lost light. And maybe they will link up with the scavengers. There's lost of possibilitys and if he avoids the reset Roberts will have set him self up with a fresh scenario to plot for the next 50 issues.

Next issue is going to be a long wait.

Patapsco
2016-03-10, 11:01 AM
Hang on a second: the nudge guns are New Institute tech, right? But the one Getaway had only had two charges. Who's been making copies of the charges? Presumably someone on board must have the scientific know how and oh god it's Brainstorm, isn't it?

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-10, 12:37 PM
Possibly perceptor. Brainstorm is on the rod pod (poor guy, he actually did try to kill megs)

Patapsco
2016-03-10, 02:37 PM
Possibly perceptor. Brainstorm is on the rod pod (poor guy, he actually did try to kill megs)

Or Chromedome...

Death's Head
2016-03-10, 03:20 PM
****ing Highbrow.

Patapsco
2016-03-10, 04:27 PM
Possibly perceptor. Brainstorm is on the rod pod (poor guy, he actually did try to kill megs)

also, remember the Nudge Guns remove memories, so why couldn't Getaway have coerced someone to make more of them then simply use the gun on them to remove the memory of the coercion?

Warcry
2016-03-10, 06:42 PM
I still think the nudge guns are a terrible plot device. Someone needs to use one on Roberts to make him forget he invented them.

That aside...

I'm not sure how I feel about the Getaway twist. I mean I really like the twist but I couldn't help but thnk that its a stretch that so much of the crew backs him - and what they effectively do to the Autobots who are trapped along with Megs is incredibly barbaric when you think about it. I'm amazed Hoist and Blaster go along with this. I think I might have bought it more if it had of been a character who was there from the start and had built bonds from the beginning. Certainly I could buy them wanting to sacrifice Megs but the idea that they would sell a fairly sizable party to the DJD is... hmm.
It does seem like a bit much, doesn't it? There hasn't been a word of dissent in two years from the crew, but apparently they're all super secretly pissed off that Megatron is there and are all (aside from the main characters) completely willing to go along with a mutiny? That seems like a leap. I mean, there's a wide spectrum of actions between "doing nothing" and "sending the entire command crew to die", particularly when the "to die" list includes popular crewmembers like Nautica, Skids, Rung, Velocity, etc... I mean, if 90% of the crew are on your side, surely there's a more productive, less dramatic way of resolving things? I mean they very nearly tossed out Rodimus from the captain's chair strictly by a vote. If you've got the support just do that again and have the new captain toss Megatron in the brig until he can be executed.

And like you say, there are way too many reasonable and/or decent Autobots left on the Lost Light for this to make any sense. Blaster, Hoist, Hound, Grapple, Huffer, Siren, bigshot diplomat Crosscut and many more. Which makes me assume...

Or, is Getaway lying out his arse and the betrayal is the result of selective memory re-editing on his part? Will the memory triggering device on the Necrobots planet be used to put things right?

Let's hope not.
He probably is. And given some of the speculation we've had about his character in the past, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was doing Tyrest's bidding in the process. After all, he very much wants to find Cyberutopia himself and would be very motivated to stop the Lost Light's quest in its tracks by feeding the command crew to the DJD. And considering Tarn's got an army of revanchist Decepticons in tow now, I'd expect the Lost Light itself to be in the crosshairs pretty quickly as well. I wouldn't be surprised if, however this arc ends, they need to rescue the rest of the crew either from Deathsaurus's clutches or Tyrest's before they continue on with the quest.

The biggest thing that jumped out at me from this issue hasn't actually gotten much attention I don't think: Velocity's suggestion that Megatron's "reform" is entirely the fault of the Autobots feeding him mind-altering drugs. The fact that neither Ratchet nor First Aid nor Rung ever even mentioned the possibility of side-effects to him implies pretty heavily that either they're incompetent (and we know that at least the first two aren't) or that they're complicit in something pretty awful, presumably at Optimus's behest.

A pretty good issue overall, though not nearly as action-packed as the hype made it seem. It's just the start of something, rather than a big event in its own right like I'd been expecting. Which all in all is probably a good thing.

Patapsco
2016-03-10, 06:49 PM
He probably is. And given some of the speculation we've had about his character in the past, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was doing Tyrest's bidding in the process. After all, he very much wants to find Cyberutopia himself and would be very motivated to stop the Lost Light's quest in its tracks by feeding the command crew to the DJD. And considering Tarn's got an army of revanchist Decepticons in tow now, I'd expect the Lost Light itself to be in the crosshairs pretty quickly as well. I wouldn't be surprised if, however this arc ends, they need to rescue the rest of the crew either from Deathsaurus's clutches or Tyrest's before they continue on with the quest.

Now this I can buy, and the point about the entire crew being off about Megatron and keeping it quiet feels too much like a long con.

The biggest thing that jumped out at me from this issue hasn't actually gotten much attention I don't think: Velocity's suggestion that Megatron's "reform" is entirely the fault of the Autobots feeding him mind-altering drugs. The fact that neither Ratchet nor First Aid nor Rung ever even mentioned the possibility of side-effects to him implies pretty heavily that either they're incompetent (and we know that at least the first two aren't) or that they're complicit in something pretty awful, presumably at Optimus's behest..

Megatron having a change of heart, picking up the Autobot sigil, his trial and desire to be redeemed all happened before he was given the captaincy of the Lost Light and as such was given a lifelong course of Fool's Energon to keep his strength in check. It could be argued, sort of, that his erratic behaviour after coming on board can be traced to the drugs, but not all that happened before (his actions in Dark Cyberton and issues 28-30

Warcry
2016-03-10, 06:58 PM
Megatron having a change of heart, picking up the Autobot sigil, his trial and desire to be redeemed all happened before he was given the captaincy of the Lost Light and as such was given a lifelong course of Fool's Energon to keep his strength in check. It could be argued, sort of, that his erratic behaviour after coming on board can be traced to the drugs, but not all that happened before (his actions in Dark Cyberton and issues 28-30
I was thinking more about the recent bout of pacifism, and the depression and self-doubt that came before that. The decisions that took him to the Lost Light were made before the Fool's Energon (I think? Maybe he was already on it when he was behind bars?) but his personality has shown more than one drastic change since then. He's barely the same person that he was at the end of Dark Cybertron, and you really do have to wonder...

It definitely makes me look back on the first conversation he had with Ravage and see it in a different light. Ravage seemed pretty certain that Megatron was acting completely out of character then. Maybe he had a point?

If nothing else it'll be a source of tension when he runs up against Tarn.

zigzagger
2016-03-10, 10:02 PM
I don't have a lot to say at the moment, but consider my interest rekindled.

And hey, it may have taken 50 issues, but Rodimus' character arc finally reached its logical conclusion -- that being mutiny, of course ;)

Still, a nice swift kick in the status quo to shake off this arc fatigue that's been hanging over me for awhile now.

A few minor quibbles here and there, mostly towards some of the shown (or assumed) mutineers, but there's genuine tension here. Exciting stuff.

May weigh in later.

Patapsco
2016-03-10, 10:31 PM
Also, is it possible for a book to become too narratively dense? Because I'm getting the sense that there's almost too much going on in the background that a real palate cleanser is needed

inflatable dalek
2016-03-11, 05:49 PM
On the betrayal, it actually reminded me a lot of the mutiny two parter in season 4 of Battlestar Galactica (even down to the charismatic bullshitter leading the revolution being let out of jail by the supporting characters who've joined him).

In both cases the turning point is the Captain making the choice to form an alliance with the villain that has attempted (with a lot of success) genocide against the heroes, but there's also a cumulative factor of the quest not feeling like its getting anywhere and erratic leadership (Adama basically constantly does what he thinks is right and tried to overthrow both the President and Cain when he didn't agree with them, it's no wonder those below him think "Mutiny" is the default way of dealing with things)n which plays into it. And even though a lot of those secondary characters had been liable allies, their betrayal felt like it made sense in the wider context.

Plus of course, despite what Zarak tried to claim, not everyone was on his side, just enough of them. I suspect we'll see the counter-revolutionaries amidst the LL crew next issue.

Like Red Dave Prime I did wonder if Season 3 was going to be chasing the stolen Lost Light, but as Roberts doesn't like it when people point out Red Dwarf similarities, would he really be that blatant (the destruction of Starbug the Rod Pod does feel like a "We're not going to go down that road" statement).

Knightdramon
2016-03-12, 10:03 AM
I want a Titan Wars Getaway! :D

I don't know if it's fully confirmed or not, but you are getting one. If I'm not mistaken it's a Chromedome [aka Dead End] retool/repaint.

On the issue itself, I do believe that much like RID 50, it was a taaaad overhyped. Unlike RID 50, where that was the culmination of a story, this one is a clean slate; this is the set-up for the upcoming issues.

On a personal level, I can't help but feel sorry for Megatron; as soon as he has made peace with the world and is happy, BAM, he's reminded that nobody really likes him and bad people are out to get him. If anything, I am curious as to how this did not happen earlier, considering his legacy.

Lots of mysteries on this one; what happened with Censere; who sent the signal, and who sent the second signal? I don't believe that he was set up by Getaway as well.

If anything, it would make sense for the DJD to be waiting in the only building on the planet, instead of wandering around nowhere. Surely they would have left at least one person with all the high-tech stuff there.

Megatron also insisted that Tarn would not harm or bother with neutrals, and they even saved Nickel. So perhaps the outpost was attacked by the Galactic Council, and that's who Getaway sold our bots to, and Tarn just beat them to the ground moments before our bots got there?

I am also wondering about the mutiny of the crew; I do not think that the crew know that the team is in danger. Considering that Bluestreak [and pretty much everybody else] risked their lives to save Swerve a few issues ago, I'm not sure that they know [or even Getaway knows] they're sold off to the DJD.

Convenient Ultra Magnus injury; can't use the teleport switch to Tyrest.

I wonder if he'll get "withdrawal" symptoms just as they're about to be executed, and brutally murder the DJD, swiping Tarn's cannons, sparing the Autobots due to his connection with them, and then leave on solo.

Is this going to be a 6-parter?

Death's Head
2016-03-12, 06:16 PM
I don't know if it's fully confirmed or not, but you are getting one. If I'm not mistaken it's a Chromedome [aka Dead End] retool/repaint.

He must have his lovely wings. I love the wings.

inflatable dalek
2016-03-13, 08:55 PM
So people on twitter have found about three instances of characters having headaches around Getaway.

And the Necrobot calling his gaff a shell of a world...

Patapsco
2016-03-13, 09:03 PM
I still think Chromedome's got something to do with this. In fact the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Getaway got to him... somehow

Auntie Slag
2016-03-16, 10:47 PM
Totally agree with Patapsco about Getaway’s logic. Could you imagine the Autobots giving Tarn the same freedom after everything he’s done, even if you did put him on poison fuel?

Really interested in whose ‘gun shadow’ Red identifies. It has to be someone that Max would also identify. I don’t know if there’s evidence Max has ever met the DJD, so perhaps its Megatron or (long shot) Overlord? That may also help explain why they haven’t had their T-cogs and brains ripped out.

One tiny thing that made me wonder the moment I saw it, was that Milne has drawn Blaster’s ears pointing forwards. He’s always drawn then pointing backwards, and I’m sure, looking at his meticulous artwork that he would never get such a thing wrong. I wonder if it means something to someone?

I also wonder if the Galactic Council will somehow save Rodimus and Co, due in part to the latter saving the organics from the Rust Giants, and because they respect Magnus. Assuming that respect didn’t ebb away in the 2012 annual.

Its an incredibly dangerous move that Getaway should leave Megatron and the others to the fate of Tarn and the DJD. Isn’t he giving the DJD their most revered hero on a plate? Isn’t there a chance they could get Megatron off the poison fuel and see him regain who he once was, an inspiring figurehead? If there was any chance of that, then Getaway and every other Autobot would be in a far more dangerous situation.

But Getaway isn’t that silly, so perhaps he knows Tarn, and who Tarn really is. And by extension so Skids knows, and Magnus and Tarn both love the Empyrean Suite, and when you add Chromedome and Brainstorm (and Rewind), you have a select set of people all linked to the New Institute who will now be in the same issue, sharing the same panels. This must surely lead to some cool revelations!

I agree with Warcry too, about a link between Getaway and Tyrest (or whoever’s controlling Tyrest). The imaginative freaky freakster that is Tyrest... and all he could think to do was torture Getaway? I doubt it. And Knightdramon’s fantastic comment about Magnus’ right arm! Shocked when I read that! It must suggest that Tyrest has a part to play in this!

And it turn that must be backed up by the comment the Our Lost Light crew made when they found Magnus’ body on the Alternate Lost Light during the Slaughterhouse story, that someone knew exactly how to kill him and rip him out of his armour. If Tarn did that it, suggests he is linked to Tyrest, who may in turn be working with the New Institute (though that’s just my guess and its groundless).

In the backup strip, in one panel Swerve has a sign above his bar which is half out of shot. I’m guessing it was supposed to read ‘**** OFF MEGATRON’. Very amusing :-)

Loved Tailgate’s Powerpuff Girls impersonation when taking down the Giganto-giant Rust guy.

And found it interesting that in the final panel where Megatron and the others have come out to face the music, that way off in the background is Nightbeat facing the other way, like he’s found something or is simply too busy to come out and get mangled with the others. Definitely up to something!

Patapsco
2016-03-16, 11:13 PM
Everyone is so hung up on what Getaway did to the "fan favourites", and to give them their stupid social media name #teamrodimus (jesus fricking christ) they're ignoring the very real, very true and completely logical points about Megatron, Rodimus and the frankly pathetic state of their quest as it stands. I'd like to imagine Roberts wrote it that way as a direct f*** you to sections of the fandom - the characters you love are terrible, I've made them terrible and here's why they're terrible. It's not the first time Roberts has made sly digs about the people who read the book (Dalek's comment about what Roberts said about Grimlock at the signing, the second season quip in the back-up strip)

The final panel is framed strangely, but I don't think the DJD and chums are that close to the Necrobot's Fortress Of Robotic Registry Services. Another thing I like about the panel is the little details - Velocity fixing Nautica's leg while Skids is comforting her, Ten holding a lot of the sparkflowers, Cyclonus patting the heads of Swerve and Tailgate

And yes, the banner in Swerve's is meant to say exactly what you think it's meant to say

Auntie Slag
2016-03-16, 11:31 PM
Another odd thing in that final panel; Whirl also in the background is looking down like he's ashamed (that's very un-Whirl), and he's got nothing to be ashamed about yet. Or does he also have an interesting past with the DJD?

Rung was good again. Not so much about the disassembling comment, but the 'extremely uncomfortable' thing he heard. If Brainstorm's briefcase offers up glimpses into the past, will the parallel continuities also offer up something which reveals Rungs true purpose before our Rung is ready? Because its starting to feel like Rung is actually aware what his alt-mode is for in our Universe, as well as the Rung from the final page of Elegant Chaos.

With just a single panel the Scavengers were great yet again. Krok's body imprint on the wall from some issues back is brilliant. And Grimlock looks like a giant, incredibly dangerous cat sitting with them. Which he is.

Nightbeat made a specific hand gesture when he says they only have six hours left. It kinda looks like he's shading his eyes from the light, but recon it could also be a signal to someone.

My personal wish is that Delta Magnus pops up in this arc somehow. Whilst I'm trying to think who would be the perfect actor to do Getaway's charming voice. That guy who plays Jaime Lannister, perhaps?

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-17, 07:12 AM
I'm more ed Norton for getaway.

Just on the point of megatron being let off, don't forget that this was somewhat imposed on optimus and the autobots. The trial was being viewed by all the neutrals and possibly the other races. They had to show they could follow their own laws. And don't forget, a key point of much of the last five years of idw, especially Roberts stuff is that the autobots are just as guilty as the cons in the eyes of those outside the war.

Also in real life terms, its not unusual for one time terrorists to evolve to legit polticians in the pursuit of peace - martin McGuinness of Sinn Fein being the most close to home example. Getaway, for all his rightful justification, isn't looking at the bigger picture.

Patapsco
2016-03-17, 09:22 AM
If Optimus had, upon hearing Megatron declaring the legal loophool that he can only tried by the Knights Of Cyberton, decided to look up Megatron in a maximum security prison indefinitely until the Knights (who may or may nor exist) then that would have been perfectly acceptable. But I'm sure that Megatron was counting on Prime's "need for redemption going beyond the inane" and that Prime would do whatever it took to not imprison Megatron, let alone execute him.

And of course Getaway's not looking at the bigger picture, he's also conveniently forgetting that he owes his very existence to Megatron and the war, as do a lot of other Autobots. Anyway, I'm sure at some point, someone is going to turn around to Getaway and at "What have you done?" Also, Roberts has already stated that Getaway's voice is from New Zealand

Auntie Slag
2016-03-17, 12:09 PM
Is Getaway Brett? I mean "Brit"?

Do the DJD only kill Deception's who are flouting Megatron's rules and Autobots who get in the way? They have no reason to kill Neutrals, right? I thought I read this somewhere. If so why kill Censerre? Or was it because he was trying to block their message to the Lost Light and was therefore guilty of helping the Autobots and Megatron?

[Edit] I thought there would be at least one utterly horrible death in this issue from one of the crew. Glad there wasn't, but now I'm thinking who should go. I don't want him to, but is Skids' number up? Almost everything we need to know about him has been revealed. Just a few bits left now that link him to Tarn and Magnus. I feel like its going to have to be Skids to take down Tarn and save Megatron.

[Edit 2] Maybe the 'gun shadow' across Nightbeat's face is Getaways?

Patapsco
2016-03-17, 11:29 PM
Can't remember if it was here or elsewhere but Nightbeat is pointing to his head because that's where he got blapped (it's a proper word) in the head all the way back in Spotlight: Hardhead.

As for the DJD, who knows? They've proven that they only go after targets on 'The List' and as 'The List' consisted solely of Megatron after #39, maybe they're just killing people who Megs just happened to have come into contact with. What does slightly unnerve me is Ravage and Megatron's chat when they first come back to Necrobotland. Ravage specifically says "what's done is done". But what is done? Did they both do something when they were last there, or is Ravage simply saying that coming there in the first place and the revelation of Megatron's memorial is what's done? I mean, it's probably the latter but still

So, as for who's going to bite it: Skids, Swerve & Brainstorm have all served their purpose storywise and Skids is definitely becoming a storyline crutch/magic escape rope in the same way that I can imagine SuperDuperTailgate will do in the future. Cyclonus' arc *should* have finished in #47 but that didn't happen. In fact, a good old fashioned massacre of who's with Rodimus will finally let some other characters hopefully have a chance to shine, because if they all survive and become the sole characters in the book going forward I'm probably going to end up dropping it

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-18, 08:26 AM
So, as for who's going to bite it: Skids, Swerve & Brainstorm have all served their purpose storywise and Skids is definitely becoming a storyline crutch/magic escape rope in the same way that I can imagine SuperDuperTailgate will do in the future. Cyclonus' arc *should* have finished in #47 but that didn't happen. In fact, a good old fashioned massacre of who's with Rodimus will finally let some other characters hopefully have a chance to shine, because if they all survive and become the sole characters in the book going forward I'm probably going to end up dropping it

This again? So after 50+ issues (nearly 5 years) of the book being about a core group of characters you want to massacre all those characters because... other characters we don't know need their spot in the sun?

We'll obviously get a few deaths and some fresh faces coming in but there seems to be a view that once a characters back story is explored, well **** it, that's him done. We've had 50 issues of new back story but sure, lets bung that out so that Bluestreak can be the focus. Why? Because Bluestreak! It's like killing off the entire bridge crew from TNG at the end of season 3 just so we could focus on ensign terry - we never get to hear about him!

Just don't get the fandom here sometimes - we have 2 ongoings and a possible 3rd all with huge casts and you guys still want to have more new characters to replace the established ones because there is some perceived neglect of a toy with a great paragraph on the back of the box. Fair enough if you don't like the current cast, no problem there, but its like some of you want to go back to a Hasbro influenced toy of the week approach.

God, that was a bit ranty for early morning. Apologies and all that.

Heinrad
2016-03-18, 09:55 AM
Only read the preview so far(yeah, I spoilered myself. Ehh, my curiousity tends to get the better of me), and I figured Nightbeat's comment was more Roberts' commentary on the Titan Returns version of Nightbeat.

Ye gods, I wish I hadn't looked that up......

Patapsco
2016-03-18, 04:51 PM
This again? So after 50+ issues (nearly 5 years) of the book being about a core group of characters you want to massacre all those characters because... other characters we don't know need their spot in the sun?

We'll obviously get a few deaths and some fresh faces coming in but there seems to be a view that once a characters back story is explored, well **** it, that's him done. We've had 50 issues of new back story but sure, lets bung that out so that Bluestreak can be the focus. Why? Because Bluestreak! It's like killing off the entire bridge crew from TNG at the end of season 3 just so we could focus on ensign terry - we never get to hear about him!

Just don't get the fandom here sometimes - we have 2 ongoings and a possible 3rd all with huge casts and you guys still want to have more new characters to replace the established ones because there is some perceived neglect of a toy with a great paragraph on the back of the box. Fair enough if you don't like the current cast, no problem there, but its like some of you want to go back to a Hasbro influenced toy of the week approach.

God, that was a bit ranty for early morning. Apologies and all that.

Have you seen The Wire? Because that somehow managed to spread the storytelling load across a lot more than 17 principle characters and the narrative never suffered. You can shuffle characters into the background and then bring them back when appropriate but if it's the same core (Rodimus, Tailgate, Chromedome, Rewind, Skids, Swerve...) it gets bloody repetitive, that's all I'm railing against.

issue 34 - focuses on Bluestreak, Mainframe, Trailcutter and First Aid. Who appears at the end? Rung! The last two part Scavengers arc? All scavengers until... Rung appears! Even the disappearing Lost Light story had an alt Rewind and Skids show up after doing some superb stuff with Riptide, Nautica, Nightbeat et al. Roberts can do it, so why not clear out some characters and let some others shine?

Auntie Slag
2016-03-18, 05:10 PM
The good thing about Skids is he's not the ultimate get out clause. It was Rodimus who stopped the Sparkeater, and from what was shown Skids didn't make any difference to Overlord's rampage.

I'd like him to survive the next five issues if it subverts my way of thinking that when all has been revealed about a character there's nothing left to do but waste them. It would be cool to see how he develops from this point. He's totally at odds now with his good buddy Getaway, and they'd been like Bond and Alec Trevelyan. He's seen the horrible act that his other buddies the Duobots carried out on behalf of Skids' boss Prowl. He's got no friends left other than those on The Lost Light.

But it still seems like he's got to have one almighty showdown with Tarn, who could destroy him by blabbing about the smelting pool before Skids is ready, causing him to freeze up like "Till all are one" did to Overlord. Maybe Megatron has to save Skids, which would be nice after the latter put Megatron firmly in his place during Slaughterhouse.

Then once its over they can get their stash from the Re-up, kick Ziggy in the pants and save Frankie Sobotka.

Patapsco
2016-03-18, 05:13 PM
Another thing to bear in mind: according to Roberts, there are 450 odd Decepticons under Tarn/Deathsaurus' command, vs 17 Autobots half of whom can't fight. If all or most of them some how get out of this, it would be nothing short of a miracle.

And who's gonna give a f*** when it ain't their turn to give a f***?

Auntie Slag
2016-03-18, 05:29 PM
How many can Tailgate take out before he gets nailed by the sheer amount of guns and heavy hitters that'll be bearing down on him the moment they clock he's Super Nintendo-gate?

The DJD killed Black Shadow. Is it possible that Tailgate is now tougher than Black Shadow? At the moment he's standing in front of Cyclonus looking scared out of his wits.

All I can think of is Nightbeat is going to activate something, a shield or a mega-gardener or something. Then there'll be a significance about the planet being hollow. The plants must play a part. I think the execution at the beginning has got nothing to do with Tarn and the others.

Rodimus can't die because happy clappy Drift (thanks Whirl) insists that Rodimus is integral to the Knights mission.I'd like to see him die, but he's the reason the Lost Light is both lousy and interesting.

- 'Whose up for a fight"?
- Lets jump through that portal and see what happens.
- Off Meteor surfing so everyone else had to save themselves.

Where is Ratchet these days? Is he in the RID comic? I know he went off to be in Drift's four-parter, but now... What is he, a sleepy house cat?

Unicron
2016-03-18, 05:32 PM
Where is Ratchet these days? Is he in the RID comic? I know he went off to be in Drift's four-parter, but what happened after that?

They're on their way back from that still. It's a long trip. Probably with a stopover at the Cosmic Carnival along the way

Patapsco
2016-03-18, 05:38 PM
How many can Tailgate take out before he gets nailed by the sheer amount of guns and heavy hitters that'll be bearing down on him the moment they clock he's Super Nintendo-gate?

The DJD killed Black Shadow. Is it possible that Tailgate is now tougher than Black Shadow? At the moment he's standing in front of Cyclonus looking scared out of his wits.

All I can think of is Nightbeat is going to activate something, a shield or a mega-gardener or something. Then there'll be a significance about the planet being hollow. The plants must play a part. I think the execution at the beginning has got nothing to do with Tarn and the others.

Rodimus can't die because happy clappy Drift (thanks Whirl) insists that Rodimus is integral to the Knights mission.I'd like to see him die, but he's the reason the Lost Light is both lousy and interesting.

- 'Whose up for a fight"?
- Lets jump through that portal and see what happens.
- Off Meteor surfing so everyone else had to save themselves.

Where is Ratchet these days? Is he in the RID comic? I know he went off to be in Drift's four-parter, but now... What is he, a sleepy house cat?

the other board I frequent loathe the DJD because their abilities are so inconsistent. They whomped Black Shadow pretty easily, but struggled against the Scavengers and Grimlock (well, for the first thirty seconds), and blew through the Alt Lost Light like a particularly hot knife through room temperature butter. They're just too goddamn powerful how do you defeat them without it sounding and reading like a giant cop out? It's going to take some literary gymnastics and hopefully no "deus ex Skids" to get out of it

Auntie Slag
2016-03-18, 05:38 PM
Was Deathsaurus Drifts boss back when Drift was Deadlock, or have I got that wrong? Maybe this'll mark his return. He'd want to go meet a weird hippy like the Necrobot (only no-one thought he was real for millions of years, now everyones on his doorstep).

Or perhaps (I'm really reaching now) something involving Terminus or Tusk? Would the revelation that Terminus is still alive re-ignite Megatrons love of The Motorcycle Diaries, fire missiles at North America and hurt a kitten?

Auntie Slag
2016-03-18, 05:48 PM
... but struggled against the Scavengers and Grimlock (well, for the first thirty seconds)

Do you think that's fair, though? I thought they were having fun with the Scavengers. They were more or less kicking them about, Ruckus was lucky for a moment with his Battletech suit but another moment or two and they'd have all been pate.

We came in at the very end of the Black Shadow killing. He could've been giving them a fair fight for a long time for all we know. Or maybe Megatron gave Tarn the killswitch code to use when necessary on an errant Phase Sixer? Its been ages since I read Devastation, where Starscream got the code to disable Sixshot. I forget how he got it. Maybe Megatron trusted Tarn enough?

All chronic speculation on my part. But it could explain the seeming inconsistency in power levels.

Warcry
2016-03-18, 05:50 PM
Just don't get the fandom here sometimes - we have 2 ongoings and a possible 3rd all with huge casts and you guys still want to have more new characters to replace the established ones because there is some perceived neglect of a toy with a great paragraph on the back of the box. Fair enough if you don't like the current cast, no problem there, but its like some of you want to go back to a Hasbro influenced toy of the week approach
I can't speak for anyone else, but because of the 80s show and comics I'm used to TF fiction having a constantly-shifting cast with lots of turnover. It's actually a bit weird for me to see a main cast stick together with so little change for such a long time the way the MTMTE crew has.

Also, what little change we've seen has consisted of new characters joining in, with very few characters leaving. I mean, with Rewind back the only major character who's left and stayed gone is Drift, and I suspect he'll be back sooner than later with Ratchet. Fort Max and Red Alert "left" only to keep showing up anyway. Pipes died but nobody cares about Pipes. Trailbreaker died but he was barely in the book beforehand, so his death doesn't really open up page space. I guess First Aid might count as a major departure if the Protectobots never come back?

But anyway, we've had very few departures. And at the same time we've had Getaway, Megatron, Ravage, Ten, Nightbeat, Nautica, Riptide, Bluestreak, Crosscut, Mainframe, Velocity, Thunderclash and Atomizer all either joining the crew or moving up from background fodder to more important supporting roles. Maybe a few others, too. Plus Deathsaurus, more of the DJD and Scavengers, etc., etc.

For me at least the book has gotten way too crowded. Early MTMTE had a dozen or so main characters and maybe half as many secondaries and focused on them fairly well. But the cast has exploded now to probably three times that, now, and there's just not enough room for everyone. And that means that some people need to go. Whether that means a big ol' massacre or some crew just deciding to leave and staying gone, I'm not fussed. But for me, when a book has forty "main characters" it really has none, and it's hard to care about anyone.

I actually wouldn't mind if the cast got whittled down to the dozen and a half people marooned with Megatron, as long as it meant more focus for some of the secondaries in the group like Ravage or Nautica or Velocity who haven't gotten to do much since they joined the crew. I also wouldn't mind if half of them died/got written out some other way and we wound up with Bluestreak, Crosscut, Thunderclash or whoever else joining the main cast. As long as the cast gets pared down to a more manageable level somehow I think the book will get back on the right track.

Skyquake87
2016-03-18, 08:28 PM
I have read this three times and am currently dumbstruck by it. I really liked it, but its made me feel sad. That's the best I can manage at the moment.

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-18, 09:40 PM
Few things:

The 450 Decepticons vs the 17 lost light - given that this is based on zulu, that number lines up well with 150 vs 3,000. Also, Its hardly going to be a straight up fight. Goes without saying that shenanigans will be involved. If battles were always determined by the stronger, history wouldn't be so colourful.

The overpowered DJD - this is a bit yes and no. As Auntie Slag has pointed out, Black Shadow was more likely the victim of a Killswitch protocol, and the scavengers was a case of the DJD not taking their target seriously. But we also know that when presented with a stronger target they were tooling up on Nuke recently and it was being hyped up on Nuke that allowed them to take out the Lost Light - an alternate lost light that didn't have Rodimus, Fort Max and a few others. We don't know exactly what state this Lost light was in, but we do know that Brainstorm let them sneak in so we don't know how much of the ship or crew were damaged before realising they were even under attack. Also, I do think part of the complaint about power levels is more because of some of the readership bigging them up themselves. Deathsaurus looked to be able to go head to head with Tarn but I doubt anyones complaining about him being too powerful.

Main Cast vs New Cast OK, main thing. I'm not for one second saying that you cant have a large rotating cast - I'm just saying that's not MTMTE. I'd understand if for the first 15 issues or so we had that type of approach but we didn't so to expect it after 50 (+annual and spotlights) is an unfair criticism of the book. That's all I'm getting at. It would be like complaining that the wire is only set in Baltimore when there are loads of other cities with drugs.

While some of you see it as Roberts over-milking his characters (and that's fine), I see it more like Slag has explained with his Skids point - this character not only had a back story coming in, we now have 50 issues of history to play off. Cyclonus would have had a good send off in issue 47 but I also think it will be interesting to see if he can still love Tailgate now that Tailgate doesn't need his protection or how he reacts to the Knights if they find them - how would a patriot like Cyclonus feel if the Knights didn't live up to his expectations. Or.. what if he is the only guy Super Tailgate cant save through all of this?

I would agree with Warcry that the cast has gotten too large and a culling of 5-10 of the main here would help (plus, you get the whole fall out for the survivors - what if this time its Domey who dies... or what if rewind snuffs it again!) but I just hate the notion of "we need to get rid of Magnus so we can see whats happening with Bluestreak". Some of the readership do enjoy these established characters and I think MTMTE would be less if we had that kind of rotating policy. Now I accept that's my own view, but my gripe with that complaint is that the comic by now has established its set-up. If that's an issue you have, maybe its not the comic for you. Chances are Rodimus and several of team roddy will still be here come issue 55 and onwards

Knightdramon
2016-03-18, 10:26 PM
A lot of interesting points being brought up.

I'll say this again; the set up for the finale is similar to "Remain in Light". Wasn't a handful of 10ish bots up against an army of Legislators and pseudo 'cons and Star Saber? It doesn't have to be an all out fight on an open field guys---the DJD could imprison the crew and have a "chat" with Megatron.

On the overpowered DJD---as it's been pointed out, they are usually on the enhancing energon, which is pretty much gone. If Sky Shadow is anything like Overlord and Sixshot, he has a de-activation code, which Megatron's inner elite are probably privy to, including Tarn. I wouldn't be surprised if Tarn has such a code too, and Megatron uses it against him.

On the main cast's popularity----is this a serious question? This is like asking why are Captain America and Iron Man on the forefront of the Avengers movies. "Team Rodimus" is more or less the main cast of the book; of course people are going to root for them!

The Wire is a poor example for comparison on shuffling characters around; that's a TV show with each episode being an hour long. Over 5 seasons of around 13 episodes each. It just can't be compared to a comic book of 20-24 pages.

I believe that MTMTE has done an OK job in shuffling people around, especially when you stop in to consider that Megatron was more or less a "forced" element during and after Dark Cybertron, yet still feels organic to the story.

I also don't see why bots need to "die to make room for others" or why people feel certain characters have outlived their purpose. If we go at it this way, Magnus should have stayed dead after issues 18-19 and Ratchet should never have made it past issue 20 when he told First Aid he'll resign.

At the moment there's too many bots with a history in one room; Tarn, Megatron, Skids and Brainstorm are all too connected, especially once Brainstorm catches on to the fact that Tarn is responsible for Quark's death. If Tarn is indeed Roller, he also shares a lot of history with Chromedome, Whirl and heck, even Rodimus and Cyclonus.

That's a lot of ifs, buts and hurt pride and comradeship.

Let's see where this all gets us before we stomp in on death and destruction.

Auntie Slag
2016-03-18, 10:39 PM
Yeah, I enjoy the large cast. Its part of what keeps MTMTE so interesting and these threads so long! Yes, I would love to have Hound or Huffer or Doublecross be main players, but not at the expense of the main guys who are already established. I don’t want any of the main cast to die because there’s so much invested in them (though I’m not bothered about Nautica or Riptide).

Like Warcry and probably everyone else here I grew up with the constantly shifting rota of the comic and cartoon and that annoyed me. I’m thoroughly happy that there’s a main cast here who get more colourful with time. I’m so itching to find out just how nefarious Chromedome has been with everyone in the past that it would be daylight robbery to kill him now.

I wanna see him deal with the return of ‘his’ Rewind. Its going to happen. You can see in this issue just how much he loves and misses his Rewind, and if the two occupy the same reality. Or worse, Overlord somehow consumes Rewind’s consciousness, so that Chromedome could never kill Overlord, or let anyone else do it.

You could argue Swerve’s got nothing going for him now. But where’s the drama in killing someone who’s all mined out in terms of character? I guess its at crossroads like this is where the writer really earns his chops!

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-18, 10:45 PM
The Wire is a poor example for comparison on shuffling characters around; that's a TV show with each episode being an hour long. Over 5 seasons of around 13 episodes each. It just can't be compared to a comic book of 20-24 pages.
.

I was also going to point out that the wire also kept lots of its main cast from season one to the forefront all the way to the end. But really, did Kima going into homicide make much sense when they could have just slotted in a new character to fill that role? And did any really want to see more of Crutchfield and Holley when you could just put Bunk centre stage?

I ****ing loved Bunk.

Think the only TV show, bar soaps, that changes it cast often and effectively is Game of Thrones and even that has kept the fan-favourite ones around (and I know its following the book, but Daenerys has little place in season 5 going by the books)

Edit:just read slags post - think characters like swerve can be pulled back alright - they rarely are the main plot though. Think they are the C squad to the A & B squad. At the moment I'm thinking:

A's - Rodimus, Magnus, Megs, Rung, Tailgate, Whirl (not so much in plot but Roberts loves this guy too much to not use him), Skids

B's - Nautica, Nightbeat, Cyclonus, Chromedome, Brianstorm, Ravage,

C's - Swerve, Riptide, Ten, Velocity

Patapsco
2016-03-18, 10:46 PM
(though I’m not bothered about Nautica or Riptide).



Oh, I was with you until you said this, not even kidding they're my second and third favourite characters in the book (after Megatron)



Like Warcry and probably everyone else here I grew up with the constantly shifting rota of the comic and cartoon and that annoyed me. I’m thoroughly happy that there’s a main cast here who get more colourful with time. I’m so itching to find out just how nefarious Chromedome has been with everyone in the past that it would be daylight robbery to kill him now.

I wanna see him deal with the return of ‘his’ Rewind. Its going to happen. You can see in this issue just how much he loves and misses his Rewind, and if the two occupy the same reality. Or worse, Overlord somehow consumes Rewind’s consciousness, so that Chromedome could never kill Overlord, or let anyone else do it.

You could argue Swerve’s got nothing going for him now. But where’s the drama in killing someone who’s all mined out in terms of character? I guess its at crossroads like this is where the writer really earns his chops!

Yeah, I suppose I'm suffering from the same thing, but I'm just really, really, REALLY burned out on certain characters and would just like them to go away or have less prominent roles. Imagine a two-parter where Thunderclash leads an away team with Huffer, Crosscut, Hound & Crossblades, or Magnus taking Jackpot, Grotusque, Slamdance and Hoist on a security training course? That's what I'm talking about. Small stories, with more characters. And if characters get offed, let their deaths have some meaning

Patapsco
2016-03-18, 10:49 PM
I was also going to point out that the wire also kept lots of its main cast from season one to the forefront all the way to the end. But really, did Kima going into homicide make much sense when they could have just slotted in a new character to fill that role? And did any really want to see more of Crutchfield and Holley when you could just put Bunk centre stage?

I ****ing loved Bunk.

Think the only TV show, bar soaps, that changes it cast often and effectively is Game of Thrones and even that has kept the fan-favourite ones around (and I know its following the book, but Daenerys has little place in season 5 going by the books)

The thing about The Wire is they threw most of the drug dealers to the kerb for season 2, then switched the principle drug players in season 3 from Barksdale to Stanfield. There were a lot of people to keep track of, and only the police in the show kept moderately constant. And then there's John Munch's cameo in season 5 which may have destroyed the space time continuum

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-18, 11:01 PM
As we are on it, I'm thinking this is the death list:

Ten - dies protecting Magnus (who is missing an arm)
Velocity- Just a feeling, Mainframe may well feel guilt about all this...
Riptide - Practically has red-shirt written all over him
Rewind - Much as I like Slags idea, I think Chromedome is going to get that sinking feeling again. I think one of them will definitely die and since his return I think rewind has seemed soulless - he might even be oddly happy to no longer be a part of the wrong universe. Chromedome is a much more interesting character as well.

Anyone else got ideas on who might go down?

Red Dave Prime
2016-03-18, 11:04 PM
The thing about The Wire is they threw most of the drug dealers to the kerb for season 2, then switched the principle drug players in season 3 from Barksdale to Stanfield. There were a lot of people to keep track of, and only the police in the show kept moderately constant. And then there's John Munch's cameo in season 5 which may have destroyed the space time continuum

Well, season 2 of the wire seemed quite at odds with the other 4 - vast amount of one off characters going on there. I loved that season but it took a few episodes to get the hooks in and I did wonder was the plan for each season to be truly unique (with different main casts each year) and was there a reaction to such a change because in seasons 3-5 I kinda felt that they went through a couple of odd loop holes to keep some of the cops in the spotlight.

Patapsco
2016-03-18, 11:06 PM
Swerve and Whirl for me. And there's something about Chromedome's shaky past which makes me think he'll embrace death - especially as Rewind is still pining for Dominus (who I'm still convinced is Tarn).

Patapsco
2016-03-18, 11:08 PM
Well, season 2 of the wire seemed quite at odds with the other 4 - vast amount of one off characters going on there. I loved that season but it took a few episodes to get the hooks in and I did wonder was the plan for each season to be truly unique (with different main casts each year) and was there a reaction to such a change because in seasons 3-5 I kinda felt that they went through a couple of odd loop holes to keep some of the cops in the spotlight.

Yeah, people don't get season 2 on the first run through because it's so jarring to the other seasons. But if you blink, you'll miss one of the dockworkers has a role in season 5 - he ends up as one of the homeless guys

Auntie Slag
2016-03-18, 11:10 PM
That’s where I’m really shallow. Its only because they’re non-toy characters that I give them short shrift. If you were to put Nautica’s personality into Huffer, and Riptide’s into Bluestreak then I’d adore them. Its lame I know, especially when I think Rung is so excellent… but he is. And the same goes for Tarn, Pharma, Tyrest, Drift. But for some stupid reason I’ve always felt like Nautica and Riptide are occupying someone else’s space.

Even with you just writing about Thunderclash’s away team I would LOVE that to happen… but would that mean I’d have to wait an extra three issues to see if Rewind gets closer to finding Dominus? We waited something stupid like three years to see the Scavengers again. I still want to know if Ore is alive, and what Spoke & Lockstock look like (I’m assuming the two who came on board Spectre to hold Sunder at gunpoint were two of the Pyrobots, but I only think that because of their fiery colour schemes).

In a way I feel like the entirety of MTMTE could be renamed as ‘Chromedome’s Story’, or ‘Whirl’s story’, because they feel like the two who have had the largest impact on everything that’s happened to everyone.

Patapsco
2016-03-18, 11:14 PM
That’s where I’m really shallow. Its only because they’re non-toy characters that I give them short shrift. If you were to put Nautica’s personality into Huffer, and Riptide’s into Bluestreak then I’d adore them. Its lame I know, especially when I think Rung is so excellent… but he is. And the same goes for Tarn, Pharma, Tyrest, Drift. But for some stupid reason I’ve always felt like Nautica and Riptide are occupying someone else’s space.

Even with you just writing about Thunderclash’s away team I would LOVE that to happen… but would that mean I’d have to wait an extra three issues to see if Rewind gets closer to finding Dominus? We waited something stupid like three years to see the Scavengers again. I still want to know if Ore is alive, and what Spoke & Lockstock look like (I’m assuming the two who came on board Spectre to hold Sunder at gunpoint were two of the Pyrobots, but I only think that because of their fiery colour schemes).

In a way I feel like the entirety of MTMTE could be renamed as ‘Chromedome’s Story’, or ‘Whirl’s story’, because they feel like the two who have had the largest impact on everything that’s happened to everyone.

What if Thunderclash's away mission is for some sort of Knights Of Cybertron hunt but they find a Dominus clue? That would blow my goddamn mind

Auntie Slag
2016-03-18, 11:25 PM
Ha, that would, yes. In terms of inconsistency I guess I find Rodimus more inconsistent than the DJD’s power levels. He’s all for personal glory and being captain, but he also does the “No one dies on my watch” thing. And of course they do!

So in the Christmas issue he’s off Meteor surfing at the exact time they’re passing through Galactic Council space and the entire ship could get fried if mechanicals are detected on board. Rodimus does nothing to protect them. No planning. Instead Megatron and Magnus have to do it all.

On the other side he gets deeply affected by Trailbreaker/Cutter and Red Alert. He wants the crew to love him, and it must have taken a monumental effort to not look at Atomisers list. In this issue however, the entire crew except for the few around him have rejected him. He must feel like utter dirt right now. I bet even standing before Tarn and the rest, he’s more damaged by his own crew.

So how does Roberts explain him acting like a dick, and yet wanting to move heaven and earth for someone like Red Alert?

Patapsco
2016-03-18, 11:29 PM
Don't forget that he allowed Overlord to be loaded onto the ship, which is where Atomiser's list came from. I can't imagine many people would have been particularly happy at that decision, which is probably why Atomiser and Getaway were able to turn so many of the crew to their way of thinking (that and Getaway being such a magnificent dick)

Auntie Slag
2016-03-18, 11:39 PM
Damn, I forgot that! And Drift took the blame because he thinks Rodimus is some sort of chosen one. Oh Rodimus, you massive tart!

Patapsco
2016-03-22, 10:38 PM
I just re-read Dark Cybertron and we were talking about characters... what about Hound? He was acting Field Commander in Rodimus & Magnus absence, so he's a pretty big deal and then he just melts into the background again