PDA

View Full Version : Batman vs Superman... possible flame thread


slartibartfast
2016-04-08, 02:14 PM
It's been a long time since I read the comic, but I remember it as a journey meant to instil a sense of humility to the character and create a bridge between humanity and supermanitude... am I remembering it wrong ?

It was probably a mistake to watch the thing in the first place. I intentionally avoided the Superman reboot efforts but Snyder succeeded in pissing me off at least once every few minutes... screaming at the screen, literally.

And they brought a cave troll.

Can someone please point out to me some redeeming features to this... uh... experience, I need help here. Maybe I just have bad taste in cinema, the last movie I enjoyed was Santa's slay :|

Brendocon 2.0
2016-04-08, 02:52 PM
Batfleck was decent. Beyond that it was dull, senseless and really not worth the time it would take for me to type out my thoughts on it.

slartibartfast
2016-04-08, 04:10 PM
Aye, granted Affleck's haircut was probably the best bit in the whole thing. And I suppose Scott Pilgrim made for an almost interesting choice for Lex... wait, damn, wrong actor.

I must admit that I'm ashamed to be pouring so much hate onto all this work done by so many people, only he-who-must-not-be-named managed to rile this amount of fanboy ranting. I feel I should probably pull a Roger Murtaugh and avoid every superhero movie from now on. Forever. Future me, thou hast been warned.

Clay
2016-04-08, 07:11 PM
Didn't like what I saw in the trailers, so I haven't bothered with it so far. Biggest obstacle for me was just how joyless it looked. I mean, grimdark works for Batman by himself, but once they start adding other superheroes in, they need ease off the gloominess.

Skyquake87
2016-04-08, 08:58 PM
Yes, someone should give Snyder a copy of Giffen's Justice League ... er, or maybe not.

I've not bothered with this, and don't think I will,as I didn't particularly like the recent Supes effort with its chocolate box CGI. Still mildly excited for Suicide Squad though.

Sades
2016-04-08, 09:54 PM
Hound and I just tried to see this, but it turned out that both websites I checked that said there was a 1 PM showing were incorrect. We got a ride to the theatre, got out, went to the door... the theatre was locked up tight. Our ride had already left and wasn't answering the texts I was sending, so I figured he'd forgotten his phone. It was really windy and cold, and I didn't have a jacket because I'm stupid (didn't figure I was going to be outside longer than it would have taken to get from vehicle to building), so we waited for a few minutes inside the post office next door while we tried to figure out what to do.

Once it became clear that our ride wasn't going to be coming back, we decided to walk to our local grocery store (where he mentioned he was going to go) to see if we could intercept him. Wasn't far, about 15ish freezing minutes later we were there. We waited about 20 mins, nothing... So, we decided we'd go to the mall across the road, grab a nibble, then wait there until shortly before the movie was supposed to be over and head back to the theatre. Did that... we were in the middle of waiting for our Beef Sukiyaki and Teriyaki chicken when our ride found us. Huzzah! He'd gone to the mall and forgotten his phone in the car. We didn't have to wait and then walk back to the theatre in the freezing cold.

... From what I'm reading here, it kind of sounds like we had a better adventure by not going to the theatre. I think Hound's gonna be seeing this one on his own, unless he reaaaaallllly wants me to go...

Heinrad
2016-04-09, 03:06 AM
Affleck was great. He just nailed it perfectly. I actually liked Cavill's Superman(have yet to see Man of Steel, but the ads didn't sell me on that one), and the Wonder Woman sub-plot was well done, although the wedging in of the rest of the League was a bit awkward. It was well done, and I loved Momoa's intro, but it wasn't part of the flow of the story.

I will admit, I wasn't sure if this was going to be any good or not, so I got a free ticket. Let's hear it for WB DVD promos! And I really enjoyed it.

I also went into it wondering if the entire basis of the fight would be Batman telling Superman, "I did your mom. A lot."

Tetsuro
2016-04-09, 09:05 AM
I saw the action figures in a toy store yesterday. The Batman figure looked pretty good, kinda like a more realistic TDKR Batman.

Denyer
2016-04-09, 02:09 PM
Not the best Justice League, but enjoyed it despite (or maybe because of) low expectations and the only thing that really snapped me out of it was the nuke. Look forward to a Wonder Woman movie, and a Justice League one even if it'll probably be rather Search for Spock. Still have no desire to see Man of Steel.

Can't recall offhand whether much as been made in modern DC comics about Martha Wayne and Martha Kent sharing a name?

inflatable dalek
2016-04-10, 12:06 AM
It's odd really, I quite liked Man of Steel (though the neck snap ending wasn't earned. There could be--and there's probably been many in the comics--a good story in Superman being forced to kill, but the film didn't properly establish that he's against killing. Certainly when he's throwing Kryptonians through buildings there's no indication he's holding anything back in case it does kill them) but can't get any enthusiasm for this at all. The trailers just haven't done anything for me. Or at least not enough to get me to go see it.

I've been slightly baffled by people being surprised it's not suitable for kids ("Try telling your six year old they can't see Batman fight Superman!"), at this stage the last small child friendly live action Batman film was almost 20 years ago and Forever and And Robin are pretty much aberrations in the approach the series has taken since Tim Burton. Have people not being paying attention?

Heinrad
2016-04-10, 03:36 AM
It's a superhero movie. And all superhero movies should be bright and cheery and kid friendly, right?

Which I get the feeling is why a lot of people aren't thrilled with it. It's the equivalent of going to the bookstore and buying your 5 year old a copy of The Killing Joke because there's a clown on the cover and Batman is in it. Or The Dark Knight Returns because it's a Batman book. And then wondering why little Timmy is wondering why Joker is killing people, or Batman is crippling people.

But then, I also know that when Batman Returns came out, there were people who got up and left the theater because not even Michelle Pfeiffer in a skintight latex cat suit could make them want to stay. It was a lot darker than they were expecting.

Brendocon 2.0
2016-04-10, 04:05 PM
It's a superhero movie. And all superhero movies should be bright and cheery and kid friendly, right?

Which I get the feeling is why a lot of people aren't thrilled with it.

Nothing to do with it. The tone is completely unconnected to why it's a terrible movie.

slartibartfast
2016-04-11, 11:27 AM
yay opinions, thanks all.

I've been trying to convince myself I'm being too harsh. If I were to take off my nostalgio-goggles for some of the stuff from the 80s-90s I'd probably have a brain fart as well. Thing is, I don't think there was any chance I was going to find the film any good. It's like someone going "look, you don't want to make a good movie, you want to make a successful movie. Follow the formula, we've been using since forever and it never fails."

Is it so inconceivable that you could have a story called Batman vs Superman without them having to unite to fight a common foe ?

^ yeh, hardly a spoiler.

Everything is so contrived, just to set up the next money shot. Poor Louis and the other secondary characters getting shunted around like props, and the m-bomb... it's almost like he wants us to take the piss (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tqvSWc_xaE)

I'm ranting again... I did think "ignorance is not the same as innocence" was a great line, to be fair.

Warcry
2016-04-11, 05:00 PM
Watched this yesterday, and I enjoyed it more than either the previous Batman or Superman solo movies, though neither of those are a particularly high bar to clear. It was a really messy movie, though. I have to agree with everyone who said that Batfleck was the high point of the movie. I haven't been a huge fan of any big-screen Batman since Keaton, but Affleck definitely sold me on his take. The older, more jaded Batman of the movie manages to really seem like he's been through hell, but without descending to the Miller-style near-parody of The Dark Knight Returns. In general I think Batman was handled well (aside from the wanton murder, but that's been a problem with a lot of Batman adaptations) and if this had been a Batman movie, it would have been pretty darn solid.

Unfortunately it's not, and that's where the wheels fall off.

The reason why Superman and Batman play off of each other so well in the cartoon and comics is because they're polar opposites. Batman the grim, avenging horror of the night, Superman the kind, hope-inspiring beacon of light and goodness. But this version of Superman is nearly as grim as Batman, and that really takes the edge off their conflict and inevitable alliance. I did like that their conflict was presented evenly and without judgment, since both men were both essentially right about one another, and both were so struck by tunnel vision that they weren't willing to try and understand the other until it was too late. But because both men had such a cynical perspective on things it was hard to really sympathize with either one, when for the story to work you should be sympathizing with both.

Then on top of all that the supporting cast were mostly awful or forgettable, the plot made no sense, Wonder Woman was barely in it and what the **** is Doomsday here for?

Riffing on Death of Superman when we've barely had a chance to see the guy being a hero really makes no sense. Even less so when he's not been especially heroic or likeable, and had so little time to really make people care about him. They also appear to have missed the entire point of Death of Superman, though the comic was so awful that it doesn't particularly matter.

Especially since it's a near-lock that he's going to be back by Justice League Part One, anyway...

Also, I really wish they'd go back to doing superhero movies that aren't thinly-disguised disaster porn.

Heinrad
2016-04-11, 10:52 PM
I think part of the problem with the Man of Steel version of Superman is that it's based on the "New 52" version, which, as I understand it, is the grim dark avenger of.... uh.... evil?

In fact, the New 52 version of Superman is proving so popular that one of the things they're doing in the upcoming Rebirth arc, when the dust settles, it's going to be the pre-New 52 Superman who's in the book and not the new version.

To give you an idea of how much I'm reading the New 52, the only comic I'm reading from DC right now is Harley Quinn. I'll probably get into Batman Beyond once they start it, if it's not too out there.

Skyquake87
2016-04-12, 07:51 PM
Have people not being paying attention?

No.




There was all the palaver with all the Spider-Man films ever* being 12 certificates and lots of 'slow news day' stories about little Jimmy not being able to see the film. But then I half suspect the parents complaining are the same ones buying 18 cert video games for their 6 year olds...'I was totally shocked that that Grand Theft Auto turned out to be about violence, robbing, some more violence, some driving, more violence and sex. I was totally confused by the certificate on the box because I thought it was just a game. Something should be done because I can't be bothered looking and reading and using my brain etc etc.'

*Except the awful 1970s ones. which is what a U certificate gets you.

Brendocon 2.0
2016-04-12, 08:05 PM
One of my favourite things of the year so far is February's "wah why can't my 11 year old see Deadpool" being followed by March's "I let my kid watch Watership Down and now they're traumatised, what the ****".

V.excited to see what reactionary parents bring us in April.

Skyquake87
2016-04-12, 08:11 PM
I swear to God, its like everyone's forgotten how the world works and there's no rational thinking. Society is just turning into some horrible collective outrage at NOTHING whilst all the important stuff that people should be bothered about goes unnoticed.

inflatable dalek
2016-04-12, 08:29 PM
V.excited to see what reactionary parents bring us in April.

When is Suicide Squad out? "I had no idea a film with the word "Suicide" in the title would be unsuitable for little Tommy".

Skyquake87
2016-04-12, 08:36 PM
"Especially as that nice Will Smith is in it. I was expecting family friendly entertainment."



Just remembered how much I'd love to see Marshal Law adapted into a film.

Sades
2016-04-14, 06:28 AM
So we saw this. How awesome did Ocean Khal Drogo look? And Wonder Woman was cool.

The rest, meh. This isn't my thing. It was a decent action flick but I've seen better. And this isn't even my fandom, but I know the Batman origin story. The rehash seemed unnecessary at this point (except for the flashback later on).

The Marthas thing made me think of this (https://40.media.tumblr.com/0d8f4bbebefde07f11079e80092ab552/tumblr_o56f4lNrAy1th1pweo1_1280.jpg). I know that wasn't the point, but I still laughed a bit.

How did Bruce Wayne manage to go for the hard gainz without getting Rhabdo? Those were some serious lifts.

Oh, OH. And Superman jumped into that bathtub with his fricking shoes on! He just came in from outside in those things. I don't care who you are, no lady is gonna give you sweet lovin' if you jump into her bathtub with your shoes on.

Brendocon 2.0
2016-04-14, 09:16 AM
And this isn't even my fandom, but I know the Batman origin story. The rehash seemed unnecessary at this point (except for the flashback later on).

The Marthas thing made me think of this (https://40.media.tumblr.com/0d8f4bbebefde07f11079e80092ab552/tumblr_o56f4lNrAy1th1pweo1_1280.jpg). I know that wasn't the point, but I still laughed a bit.

I'd imagine that's intended as a parody of the film, tbf.

Also yeah, retelling the origin has no point other than to set-up that really really ****ing idiotic pay-off. So in a contextual sense, it's there for a reason, just a shame the reason is so brain-punchingly dumb.

But yeah, Wonder Woman best thing in it.

Sades
2016-04-15, 05:34 AM
You know, I was disappointed there was not very much Aquaman in this movie. There better be Aquaman, AND a Kraken in the next one.

I'd imagine that's intended as a parody of the film, tbf.

Ah, sorry, clumsy phrasing/missing context. What can I say, I'm lazy.

I was aware beforehand that it was parodying the movie, but I happened to see the image first so when it came up in the movie, I laughed and thought of the cartoon. By "I know that's not the point", I meant that that bit in the movie wasn't about samey names but was more meant to show Bruce that Supes was "human" after all by linking his fear of losing his mother to Bruce's loss so that Bruce would stop hating his near-omnipotent guts so we could get awesome slow-mo posed group shots mid-battle.

Tetsuro
2016-04-15, 12:36 PM
Just remembered how much I'd love to see Marshal Law adapted into a film.
I used to think "Marshal Law" was some kind of a Punisher storyline, probably because it was mentioned in that context in the Finnish language edition of the series, so now that you mentioned it, I had to look it up...

...and apparently Marshal Law DID get one Finnish publication, and was voted the worst Marvel character for years afterwards.

Which speaks more about the Finnish comic readership than the comic probably.

inflatable dalek
2016-04-15, 02:26 PM
Whatever flaws the films do have, I do think it's a good idea that DC are trying to create a different feel to the generally more light hearted and fun Marvel stuff for their movies. Variety is a good thing.

It's also good to hear Wonder Woman seems to have gone down well with even people who loathed it, there's a character who has always felt oddly neglected by cinema considering she has the fondly remembered TV show to ensure most people know who she is.

Skyquake87
2016-04-15, 07:22 PM
I used to think "Marshal Law" was some kind of a Punisher storyline, probably because it was mentioned in that context in the Finnish language edition of the series, so now that you mentioned it, I had to look it up...

...and apparently Marshal Law DID get one Finnish publication, and was voted the worst Marvel character for years afterwards.

Which speaks more about the Finnish comic readership than the comic probably.

sort of. Marshal Law has been a character with diminishing returns, thanks to the blunting of Pat Mills wit. The initial six-issue series from Epic , the two 'bookshelf' adventures 'Takes Manhattan' (a savage satire of the Marvel pantheon) and 'Kingdom Of The Blind' (a riff on Batman) are all great, and after that, its steadily downhill. I recall ML did get to Hollywood at some stage, and just got stuck in Development Hell and that was that.

Tetsuro
2016-04-15, 10:26 PM
Yeah, apparently said Finnish publication was a single 100 page special in the mid-90's, which featured "Marshal Law Takes Manhattan" and a bunch of other superhero parodies more in the vein of Mad Magazine.

To give you some sort of idea what kind of a landscape comics have here, the only three titles I can think of that have appeared on supermarket shelves consistently for decades are Donald Duck, Asterix and Tex Willer. There's also a war comic anthology type series that just reprints material from various sources.

I can't even remember the last time I saw an honest to god cape title on a shelf.

tfforlife12
2016-08-30, 09:19 PM
Just got the extended edition and it is way better than the theatrical cut of the movie.