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inflatable dalek
2017-01-02, 08:58 PM
The Return of Doctor Mysterio!




Well, finally watched this...

Better than I thought it was going to be tbh. Looked surprisingly cheap and I'm not sure why they didn't just use the Slitheen as the zip headed alien duplicate's plan was basically a rerun of Aliens of London anyway ( In fact, considering the fank wank opening explanation for why the Doctor can go to New York again I'm surprised they didn't go as far as pointing out the similarity) but it flowed along well enough and had some good gags. And I actually liked Matt Lucas.

It did seem a bit odd to be doing such a dedicated spoof of a nearly forty year old movie when you'd have thought the current superhero craze would provide fresher material (and make more sense for kids). Indeed, the guy playing the Ghost seemed to agree as he was doing doing a Christian Bale impression when in costume.

Why did he need both glasses and a mask anyway?

And of course, getting a job as the live in nanny to the woman who doesn't know you have a thing for her is more creepy than romantic.

Oh, and whilst it makes sense in fiction for the Doctor to be upset about River still, it was a bit old business in feeling.

Skyquake87
2017-01-02, 09:04 PM
I watched this and meant to post about it earlier! Then I forgot.

Enjoyable funny nonsense, with a very evident Lois And Clark vibe (at least that's what I got, rather than the Donner films). Matt Lucas was good, wasn't he? Be interesting to see how his character develops (and fingers crossed he's not part of some mystery the Doctor has to solve). Wasn't sure about the River stuff myself either - I suppose it was felt it needed to be addressed since that was the last time we saw The Doctor.

Brendocon 2.0
2017-01-02, 09:07 PM
Why did he need both glasses and a mask anyway?

Because the idea that somebody becomes unrecognisable simply by removing their specs is, always has been and always will be irretrievably stupid?

inflatable dalek
2017-01-02, 09:27 PM
Amussingly, from what people in GB are saying,the opening is set after Lois found out Clark was Superman in the comics (apparently it's actually set whilst Superman was dead!). Not a problem if you assume Grant isn't really a comics fan but just had a couple of old issues laying about, but it made me smile. The John Bryne comic he flicks through was a composite of at least two, possibly three issues as well. I guess finding one comic with both Superman and Clark in it was a bit too difficult?

Brendocon 2.0
2017-01-02, 09:42 PM
Probably came down to finding pages with panels that worked for blah blah I don't know.

Stop posting at other boards. And bring back Knightdramon from wherever you've put him. I can't be reporting MP/3P news all by myself FFS.

Heinrad
2017-01-02, 09:47 PM
I watched it today. I liked it. Not the greatest story, but fun. Part of me gets the feeling the Doctor's speech towards the end was more Moffatt saying goodbye.

My question is, why did he wait so long to do the superhero thing?

Hound
2017-01-03, 03:30 AM
Ah, thanks for the reminder that I'd needed to watch this. I'd forgotten that I'd missed it on Christmas and had meant to watch it last week but had gotten sidetracked by life and stuff.

I enjoyed it quite a bit. Not that it was the best or anything but it was fun and appropriately quirky.

Skyquake87
2017-01-03, 07:52 PM
My question is, why did he wait so long to do the superhero thing?

In DWM (what I have now read. mostly), when asked about this, Moffat states that its because he likes Superhero films to watch, but he couldn't write them (insert your own joke here). He mentions that like Brendocon, there's something very silly that no one can tell Clark Kent is Superman just because he wears glasses. Turns out Lois And Clark was an influence on this, and it was relationship stuff which he remembered he was pretty god at with Coupling, so managed to find a way to write it.

Cyberstrike nTo
2017-01-04, 01:04 PM
I watched it today. I liked it. Not the greatest story, but fun. Part of me gets the feeling the Doctor's speech towards the end was more Moffatt saying goodbye.

My question is, why did he wait so long to do the superhero thing?

My guess is that Moffatt might trying to get a writing gig on of the DC and/or Marvel TV shows since both companies have used a lot of Doctor Who and Sherlock actors. Maybe he's thinking that if writes a superhero story they might want to hire him as a writer once his last series is over. He knows a lot of the actors that they are currently using or have used in the past.

Marvel has used Christopher Eccelstone, David Tennat, Karen Gillian, and Jenna Coleman in various movies and TV shows. As well as Sherlock stars Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman.

DC is currently using John Barrowman and Arthur Darville, on Legends of Tomorrow and Alex Kingston has popped up on Arrow a few times.

As too the special I thought it was pretty good, I Peter Calpadi when not overly serious and I actually liked Matt Lucas which was surprised me and I liked the Ghost and hope he returns of even gets a spin-off series. I honestly didn't realize how much I missed Dr. Who till the build up to the 2016 Christmas special and then I started watching the Matt Smith Christmas shows on Amazon Video and it was like hanging with old friends for Christmas.

So yeah I can't wait to see the new series!

inflatable dalek
2017-01-08, 07:35 PM
I hadn't really paid any attention to the series 10 trailer, but there's a blink and you'll miss it appearance from a faithfully recreated very silly Tom Baker monster....


Movellans! One is chucked into a wall during the Dalek bit, silver wig, white jumpsuit and cheap gun all present and correct. Presumably it's just a fun cameo, I can't see them not totally reinventing their look if they were going to play a big role. They looked stupid at the time... Presumably they were easier to do than Mechanoids.

Scotimus Prime
2017-01-28, 10:05 AM
Feeling a bit sad today

R.I.P. John Hurt, Gallifrey Falls No More
http://pm1.narvii.com/5985/6683fc114603781d800e2b2f15fc60af9c0800f1_hq.jpg

Brendocon 2.0
2017-01-30, 10:16 PM
Confirmed that Capaldi's leaving at Christmas. Not really a surprise. And lets Chibnall have a clean slate.

Scotimus Prime
2017-01-30, 10:32 PM
Yup...here's info on that
http://screenrant.com/doctor-who-peter-capaldi-leaving-season-10/?utm_source=SR-FB-P&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_campaign=SR-FB-P&view=list

inflatable dalek
2017-02-03, 07:42 PM
Confirmed that Capaldi's leaving at Christmas. Not really a surprise. And lets Chibnall have a clean slate.

Yeah, shame he basically lost a season though (hmm, come to that, the last three Doctors all basically missed one year's worth of episodes for various reasons. How random).

I will be pleasantly surprised if the BBC let Chibnall go for anyone but a David Tennant II type as part of the "Make it like wot it used to be" approach (Ben Whishaw would probably get my vote out of those).

Mind, I've been reading claims Chibers schedule means his first season won't be on to next Autumn. Which cheerfully undoes the only good thing about the gap year, letting them get back to the Easter start the show does better in.

Scotimus Prime
2017-03-13, 09:41 PM
Here's a new series 10 trailer that just dropped
https://youtu.be/s2xOQK_BLIg

inflatable dalek
2017-04-14, 01:25 PM
It's back tomorrow!

I'm not sure how representive of general feeling my circle of peers is, but I'm not finding many folk who give a ****. Most seem more interested in who the next Doctor is going to be than in this year. Hell, I've even had a few bemoan the series is tired and needs to take a break!

Skyquake87
2017-04-14, 07:11 PM
I'm excited! I'm really looking forward to it. Been watching all the trailers and build up stuff floating about online which is the first time I've bothered with all that.

I'm not surprised that there's folk who aren't so interested anymore - its 12 years since the show came back(crikey!) and that's a long time to sustain peoples interest - especially for Sci Fi stuff and especially in the UK where our viewing habits in the last 20-30 years have been largely limited to soaps, medical dramas and endless detective/ police shows. The brief burst of SF/ horror that UK TV had is pretty much over, leaving Who the only game in town. In age of superhero stuff flying the flag for SF, Who does seem oddly out of place now. But I like that!

Denyer
2017-04-17, 08:18 PM
Decent. Much less annoying and overwritten than Clara.

Skyquake87
2017-04-19, 08:22 PM
Yup. Bill feels much more...real. I like her. I liked the watery alien thingy thing. Whilst the alien space ship gone a bit wonky is one of Nu-Who's cliches, it did make me think of Waters Of Mars and Ice Warriors and stuff, so wonder if this'll be followed up later in the season.

Loved the cheeky Movellan cameo - I like that these older designs are being allowed to stand up as they were. Looking forward to seeing the original Cybermen and was excited to see a flash of The Master in the trailer (I liked John Simm's Master).

inflatable dalek
2017-04-21, 02:19 PM
Thought it was better than the sum of its parts. Said parts being a mish mash of ideas Moff has already done (or in the case of mimicked dialogue, RTD had already done in Midnight) slightly less well than he'd done them previously and pointless old continuity references for the old fans. Did a key decision of the Doctor's have to be influenced by a photo of a character last seen 34 years ago (or as she looked in the picture, more than 50)? Did we need a lingering close up of the old sonic screwdrivers (apparently they were the commercially available toys as well, so does that make it product placement?)?

Even the Movellans, which as a sad old fan I loved, were the sort of thing that's too backwards looking. There was nothing as bad as Davros watching his Who DVD collection or someone thinking Rassilon was interesting enough in and of himself any dodgery old ****er could play him, but it was very tired.

Positively though, Capaldi was on fine form, Bill made a strong first impression as a likeable character (only the overdone "Bigger on the inside" thing felt forced, if the characters are pointing out its taking a long time for her to get the point it's not a good sign) and the Lucas was good fun. The Doctor having a butler feels like an obvious idea in retrospect and it's working well across the two episodes so far. Plus, it's a new idea!

inflatable dalek
2017-04-28, 09:08 PM
I thought Smile was quite good for three quarters of the length (despite being hamstrung by a precredits sequence that explained the mystery that was then very carefully explored) and had a nice spooky atmosphere. But it really felt like it fell apart at the end, from Ralph Little being an idiot (was he planning to shot the entire building?) to the Doctor suddenly being fine with unwilling mind wipes despite the end of last week and a really odd metaphor. The robots aren't the indigenous population, they're immigrants like the humans.

Also, in a forced attempt at continuity we get firmly told these aren't the last humans, but at the end everyone acts like these are the last humans.

Still, up till that ending it was really well done.

Brendocon 2.0
2017-05-01, 08:05 PM
Have caught up on this series now (sorry, I have a life) and it's weird how it doesn't feel in the slightest bit Moffaty. Really weird.

Even though at the same time we've had not-quite-retreads-but-riffs-on The Lodger, the Happiness Patrol and the Beast Below.

And next week is Ghost Light/Fendahl/Hide/fun gothic horror.

Have enjoyed.

Heinrad
2017-05-02, 01:33 AM
Quite enjoying the series so far.

Skyquake87
2017-05-02, 07:28 AM
Me too! It feels a bit lighter, like someone's opened a window to let some fresh air in. The retreads haven't bothered me so much. The Smile one reminded me of the Hand-bots, but I liked that it made the point that technology isn't inherently evil. The humans waking up at the end wasn't necessary and Ralf Little was wasted. Enjoyed Thin Ice, some good dialogue and lines and a solid story. I like Bill very much and Pearl Mackie is ace.

Skyquake87
2017-05-14, 09:04 PM
Thin Ice was passable... Oxygen was really good! Supporting cast were great, and the stuff in Space at the start was very impressive. I liked the set design and whatnot on this one too.

inflatable dalek
2017-05-19, 07:26 PM
Caught up!

Knock Knock felt a bit of waste of David Suchet, and the spooky haunted house feels very done by new Who.

Oxygen was very good, but again, space suits with corpses in is something Who has done already.

Saturday's at least looks like new territory for the show, though isn't it about a decade too late for a Dan Brown pisstake?

Skyquake87
2017-05-19, 08:38 PM
...I'd forgotten about the house one. I liked it, but everyone being magically alive after they'd been consumed was a bit rubbish.

Skyquake87
2017-06-12, 07:10 PM
After a decent start, the 'Monks' 3-parter was a bit pointless. Like The Slients (Silence?), they had vague and unknowable motivations. I can't believe they'd go to all that effort of making an ENTIRE PLANET go yes please, we'd like to be ruled by your literally rotten features, that seems good, only for them to bugger off at the first sign of trouble. Did all the people working for them get TUPED back ?

On the plus side, Empress of Mars was pretty decent and I liked that. Especially turning the soldiers into horrible scrunched up balls. It was both comical and horrific. I approve! Plus: ALPHA CENTAURI!!! brilliant.

Denyer
2017-06-12, 08:47 PM
Definitely appreciating the retro. They're doing early era Cybermen at some point too, aren't they?

Skyquake87
2017-06-13, 06:55 PM
Yup. Whether that will involve The Master, I don't know...

Tetsuro
2017-06-17, 11:06 PM
I can't believe they'd go to all that effort of making an ENTIRE PLANET go yes please, we'd like to be ruled by your literally rotten features
Just once I'd like that kind of a monster to look reasonable attractive, at least at first, similar to Claws of Axos. At least then I could buy everyone going along with them a little better.

Not to mention their reason for looking that way was a bit bollocks, too.

Skyquake87
2017-06-18, 07:30 AM
I can't even remember why they looked like that! ...nor do I care.

Eaters Of Light was a nice change of pace and a really enjoyable story. I liked that it felt a little more soulful, don't know if that's the word, but maybe it was just the pictish setting and all. Anyway, I really enjoyed it. Decent supporting cast, although some of them could have done with more to do. Only slight whiff of cheese was the business with the blackbirds.

Tetsuro
2017-06-18, 12:51 PM
The Doctor (or one of the characters, I can't remember anymore) asked them why they looked like corpses, and their answer was something in the lines of "because you are corpses, you are already dead" or something dumb like that.

Brendocon 2.0
2017-06-26, 03:35 PM
So I love how they put two absolutely superb would-be jaw-dropper twists into "World Enough and Time" and then included both of them in the "next time" package on the previous week's episode.

Great ****ing job guys.

inflatable dalek
2017-06-26, 07:58 PM
See, as Capaldi's first season cliffhanger I can see why they'd announce the Cybermen in advance considering that once you film on location on a street it's all over the papers anyway (though that begs the question why they write these scripts as a surprise when Moff must know he'd have no choice but to go with it), but John Simm doesn't seem to have done any filming where folk saw him, so why ruin that?

That said, the disguise completely fooled me even though I knew he was in the episode. It was only when he started talking to Missy and I realised we'd reached the end of episode cliffhanger point Simm should be showing up that it clicked.

I am an idiot.

Good, moody episode though. Goodness knows what more causal viewers who've had a decade of Cybusmen thought of them doing "The origin of the Cybermen" again though. "Wait, they're from an alternate dimension aren't they? What's a "Mondas"?" But then mostly this season seems to be about the Moff giving up on casual viewers and doing everything he can to get hardcore fans to love him again before he goes.

As for the inbetween episodes, having now caught up, after a strong start this season has been a bit of a slog. Especially the Angel season 4 remake (but not as good!) in the middle. It feels like it kind of deserves the low viewing figures to be honest (including beating Battlefield for lowest overnight rating. You could argue it's unfair not to include IPlayer and so on for that one, but then taped and second TV viewings weren't included for McCoy).

I liked the Ice Warriors one though. And the Tardis team is actually great. They just need better material.

Odds on Moff going even more out with the fanwank and the pre-credits flashforward turning out to be set at the same time and place as the first Doctor's regeneration?

Brendocon 2.0
2017-06-26, 09:08 PM
See, as Capaldi's first season cliffhanger I can see why they'd announce the Cybermen in advance considering that once you film on location on a street it's all over the papers anyway (though that begs the question why they write these scripts as a surprise when Moff must know he'd have no choice but to go with it), but John Simm doesn't seem to have done any filming where folk saw him, so why ruin that?

Agree on the Cybermen, once it's common knowledge you may as well lean into it, but ruining both was just daft.

Good to see the Master hiding out under rubber masks again though, it must be said.

Skyquake87
2017-06-26, 09:09 PM
I was a bit disappointed they'd ruined Simm's return by spoilering it on purpose in advance :( I wouldn't mind, but (somehow) I managed to miss all the press stuff about him being in Who the first time around, so to have the show just give up and spoil everything seems like they've just given up keeping things from the chatty world of the internet. boo.

Disguise totally had me too! And I really liked this with its slow build up and whatnot. Nice :)

Tetsuro
2017-06-27, 11:53 AM
Goodness knows what more causal viewers who've had a decade of Cybusmen thought of them doing "The origin of the Cybermen" again though. "Wait, they're from an alternate dimension aren't they? What's a "Mondas"?"
That's something I've always been wondering about; have all the Cybermen in nu-Who been the alternate reality ones or have some of them actually been native to this universe and they just couldn't be bothered to come up with different designs for them to set them apart?

Skyquake87
2017-06-27, 06:59 PM
AFAIK, only the ones in Season 2 have been alternate reality ones. All their subsequent appearances are from 'our' universe, just using the same designs. I liked the sleeker Iron-Man looking ones we had since 2012 :)

Cyberstrike nTo
2017-06-27, 10:23 PM
AFAIK, only the ones in Season 2 have been alternate reality ones. All their subsequent appearances are from 'our' universe, just using the same designs. I liked the sleeker Iron-Man looking ones we had since 2012 :)

I was always thought the two versions met and/or the original Cybermen found some of the remains from of Torchwood Tower and just took various aspects from the alternate universe Cybermen and used them as their own.

Tetsuro
2017-07-01, 09:01 PM
They really have not been very good at establishing the difference.

What was the name of the other Cyberman planet anyway? The one from Tomb IIRC.

Skyquake87
2017-07-02, 09:11 AM
I'm not sure, in the finale, The Doctor must have repeated the names of the planets where he's encountered them twice, but just Mondas, Telos and Marinus have stuck.

Both of the newer designs showed up in the finale (disappointingly, i have to say), to show how the Cybermen had evolved over time - so it was a shame the Invasion and up redesigns didn't also make an appearance (always liked the Silver Nemesis design best of the 'classic' looks).

The series finale was pretty solid, I thought. Just a shame there was a bit of a struggle to find something for the Master/ Missy to do, although I did like the final scene between them. Likewise, Nardole's exit seemed little more than deck clearing before the new production team comes in. I've liked having him around, but we haven't really got to see much of why he's there and what he's all about. Oh well.

I did like how Bill being a Cyberman was done and resovled (although the pilot flashbacks were unnecessary) - good choice to have her appearing human, otherwise those scenes would have been impossible to take seriously done in the staccato of the Cyberman's synthesized voice.

Capaldi was brilliant throughout, and I loved his speech to The Master, just asking him to do the right thing for once.

and that is my thoughts.

Brendocon 2.0
2017-07-02, 11:55 AM
I never want Capaldi to leave.

Nice to see Simm playing the Master straight for once. Though boo to overexplaining the symbolism at the end there.

They really have not been very good at establishing the difference.

What was the name of the other Cyberman planet anyway? The one from Tomb IIRC.

Telos.

Or was it Planet 14.

Or Marinus?

inflatable dalek
2017-07-02, 07:08 PM
Mind, if memory serves Planet 14 was Marinus in the comic that was referencing...

Simm being a bit older seems to have slowed him down, resulting in a much better less bouncy twat performance (a John Simm fan on twitter was very angry at this, saying the difference was just direction. Boo to the Tennant era peeps who were directing him to act badly then). There was basically no reason for two masters, or even much of the Missy arc in the end, but they played off each other well enough for it to work.

Generally a very good finale, of the sort that makes you will Moff could do this every week. A little derivative in places (how often has Nick Briggs would up playing a companion now? Three times?), but still nice and foreboding stuff that ended well.

Not sure about the return of the First Doctor and Christmas special looking to be set between scenes in The Tenth Planet. Still, we shall see.

Brendocon 2.0
2017-07-02, 07:40 PM
I liked the idea of doing a Two Masters story just for the sake of it, tbh. Especially as it ties up the (admittedly unnecessary) "when did he regenerate" loose end, and also means that the Cyberman plan in Dark Water is basically a direct continuation of what he was upto here.

Did think that the "character from twelve episodes ago pops up and uses vague god-level sub-atomic-rewrite powers" to save Bill was a massive cop-out though.

Currently enjoying the small subsection of people on Twitter who don't realise Bradley was playing Hartnell and think he's the new Doctor.

[EDIT] Black clothes, beard, eyeliner, rubber masks, not bouncing about like a twat... yeah, definitely the direction o_0

Tetsuro
2017-07-02, 07:42 PM
Pretty sure Telos was the one.

The only thing that really bothered me about the episode was the lack of a definitive ending to the whole spaceship story. It's still stuck by a blackhole with cybermen creeping in on the surviving humans. The Doctor said Nardole will guard the survivors for the rest of their lives, but y'know those survivors are eventually gonna grow up and have kids too. What is he gonna do then?

inflatable dalek
2017-07-02, 07:43 PM
Currently enjoying the small subsection of people on Twitter who don't realise Bradley was playing Hartnell and think he's the new Doctor.

Mind, there is a point there that to get the impact you have to remember a one off docudrama from four years ago. Hartnell himself has been in the actual program as recently. I can see it falling flat/being confusing for a lot of folk.

I'm enjoying the Very Angry folk on Gallifrey Base who have worked out he's going to be terrible from five seconds because he's not going to play it exactly like Bill would.

No, not that Bill.

Brendocon 2.0
2017-07-02, 07:50 PM
Mind, there is a point there that to get the impact you have to remember a one off docudrama from four years ago.

I didn't remember that until about an hour after watching it, tbh.

Unrelated note, when are they going to get off their arses and animate the rest of the missing episodes?

inflatable dalek
2017-07-02, 07:56 PM
Unrelated note, when are they going to get off their arses and animate the rest of the missing episodes?

There's some confusion there. Cast members like Anneke Wills keep saying more are happening (and in the case of one guest star from Evil of the Daleks, that's he's been filming motion references!), but the folk who'd work on making the special features/restoring the soundtracks keep seeming legitimately baffled by this.

I suppose it all depends on how much Power depended on the now defunct BBC store.

Brendocon 2.0
2017-07-03, 02:26 PM
I suppose it all depends on how much Power depended on the now defunct BBC store.

I hate to think of anything depending on the BBC store.

Ryan F
2017-07-03, 09:27 PM
There's some confusion there. Cast members like Anneke Wills keep saying more are happening (and in the case of one guest star from Evil of the Daleks, that's he's been filming motion references!), but the folk who'd work on making the special features/restoring the soundtracks keep seeming legitimately baffled by this.

I suppose it all depends on how much Power depended on the now defunct BBC store.

Stupid question (Gallifrey Base scares me sometimes), but would the Restoration Team have much work to do on the animations? I mean, all the audio was cleaned up by Mark Ayres for the CD releases years ago, so that stuff is presumably available off the shelf.

On the other hand, Anneke Wills can get... 'confused' sometimes, and I'm not sure why you'd hire an old actor to perform MoCap for a series of animations where natural human movements haven't exactly been top of the priority list.

In any case, why would you re-hire an actor fifty years later to study his movement in an attempt to re-create his younger self - I mean, undoubtedly their posture, gait, bearing etc. would have changed considerably over the years? Sounds like balls, if you ask me!

inflatable dalek
2017-07-07, 01:30 PM
It's a case of wait and see!

I wouldn't be surprised if the filming was for a new fan recon.

On the Cybusmen, all the ones in the RTD era are from the parallel Earth (the ones in The Next Doctor are expressly said to have escaped the void, their images of all the Doctors being stolen from the Daleks).

The Moff era ones are intended to be from our Universe, but they couldn't pony up for costumes without the logo till Nightmare in Silver. Of course, the cheeky "They turn up everywhere!" dialogue in the finale basically solves all Cybermen chronology problems.

Cyberstrike nTo
2017-07-13, 12:36 PM
The Moff era ones are intended to be from our Universe, but they couldn't pony up for costumes without the logo till Nightmare in Silver. Of course, the cheeky "They turn up everywhere!" dialogue in the finale basically solves all Cybermen chronology problems.

It's also a nice albeit it dark and real bit of social commentary. I loved the shot at Trump as well.

Skyquake87
2017-07-16, 08:03 PM
So, Jodie Whitaker is the 13th Doctor.

I wish this felt progressive and less like...shutting up the tabloids who've been banging on about the Doctor being female since...1980.

In fiction, it just raises all kinds of questions about Timelord physiology and the populace of Gallifrey in general that, honestly, I was never had or was bothered about. Or crucially, never wanted to know about. It's been kind of drip fed into the TV series in recent years, so its just "sometimes they like to be female and others male", which is fine... but I dunno, I didn't want Doctor Who to suddenly be derailed by biology and gender issues. It probably wont be, but its such a big concept to put out there... It'll be interesting to see how / if this is tackled. I'm rambling now.

Anyway, interested to see what Jodie's Doctor will be like and she looks very smiley :) Even if I am a bit sad that we've lost one of the most unique male role models out there in TV land.

Tetsuro
2017-07-16, 08:49 PM
Or crucially, never wanted to know about. It's been kind of drip fed into the TV series in recent years, so its just "sometimes they like to be female and others male", which is fine... but I dunno, I didn't want Doctor Who to suddenly be derailed by biology and gender issues. It probably wont be
When you put it like that, it makes me think of those situations where you tell someone you explicitly don't care about a certain topic when they bring it up, only for them to go on a rant about it anyway.

Part of me wants to be mad about this in the same way I'm always annoyed by race- and genderswapping, but I'm beginning to think that part of me has numbed to a kind of indifference. I can't stop them from pandering to demographics so there's no point getting worked up over it. Plus you're pretty much guaranteed the well has already been poisoned before you ever get involved into any sort of argument over the whole thing.

For all I know, Jodie might be fine in the role. In the other hand, they might also kill it with some kind of a lame "Hey I'm a woman now!" joke repeated ad nauseum.

I also started wondering why I never had particularly strong feelings about Missy either, and I think that boils down to the part where her identity was suspect for a fairly long time - and also the simple fact that the nu-Who Master was always a bit shit.

Denyer
2017-07-16, 09:11 PM
Not an actress I'm familiar with -- I'd echo others and say it's a shame they didn't go with ginger and have the Doctor not actually notice the gender swap.

But more to the point I'll be sorry to see the current Doctor go. Didn't quite get Eccleston or Tennant (in large part I think due to lousy scripts) and the Smith companions had a similar effect a lot of the time, but I think both Smith and Capaldi carried the role well, and we'll hopefully see some multi-Doctor episodes in future.

There'll be huge bonus points if later on in the series this turns out to be Iris Wildthyme.

edit: Also, I really wanted it to be Tilda Swinton -- Whittaker doesn't have much of an alien feel.

Cyberstrike nTo
2017-07-16, 10:50 PM
I was kind of hoping for Haley Atwell (Peggy Carter) she would be been a great Doctor.

Tetsuro
2017-07-16, 11:18 PM
I guess Helen Mirren might've been a little too much to ask.

Skyquake87
2017-07-17, 06:11 AM
When you put it like that, it makes me think of those situations where you tell someone you explicitly don't care about a certain topic when they bring it up, only for them to go on a rant about it anyway.

^This.

I also agree with your comments about Missy. Michelle Gomez is brilliant, but the character never felt nailed down enough to convince me she was The Master (didn't help that after unveiling whatever mad scheme she was doing, she just kind of ...hangs around not really doing much). I'm sure that won't be the case with The Doctor, who's a more avuncular character, but it does show that if the writing isn't there then your whole 'it's a girl!' just looks little more than stunt casting, and that's no good.

Anyway, what would I know, I can't even spell Jodie's name right. It's Whittaker with two 't' s. Tut tut.

Tetsuro
2017-07-17, 04:32 PM
It also probably helped that whatever flaws she might've had, Missy still seemed like an improvement over the bouncing twat he was during the final RTD episodes. Which is even more of a shame because if the last episode proved anything, it's that John Simm can definitely deliver a solid performance as the Master under good direction and script. Although there's no way to know they're just not planning to bring Simm's Master back and have him deal with regenerating into a woman in some unspecified time in the future, kinda like Clara seems to have an indefinite lease of life now.

Although I still kind of have trouble buying the part where he literally kills his own future self rather than side with the Doctor; if his behaviour in the classic episodes is anything to go by, a somewhat understated characteristic of the Master is that he's a bit of a coward, so what is effectively suicide seems kind of out-of-character.

Heinrad
2017-07-18, 02:13 AM
Haven't seen the finale yet, but from what I've read here, I'm suddenly reminded of the book Harvest of Time, where the Third Doctor stumbles across a ship filled with different, time-stasised versions of the Master. I'll have to read it again, but the Delgado Master seemed to view the situation as "Oh, good. Lots more of me to go around." Whereas his future versions weren't nearly as thrilled about it.

Or bouncing to The End of Time, I kind of got the impression that as long as the Master Cult had some goop and a willing(or unwilling) dupe, they could bring him back, though I was never sure if he was really back to being a full Time Lord. That's where I thought Missy came from, to be honest. The goop didn't regenerate the woman's body he took over into a man, so the Master just changed his/her name to the Mistress, and went about doing what he'd been doing right along.

As for the new Doctor.... I don't know, really. At the moment, all I can think of is the end to Curse of the Fatal Death. Is she a good actress? Can she make the role her own? Are they preparing to burn Chibnall in effigy before we see what he's got planned?

inflatable dalek
2017-07-21, 01:10 PM
Never seen Whittaker in anything, which is pleasing as it creates the same situation I was in with Matt Smith: No preconceptions.

Though to date I don't think the casting of the Doctor has made a wrong step so far in the new series (even if Eccles isn't a favourite of mine, he was absolutely the right guy for the role at that time), so I'm not too worried on that score. The writing on the other hand...

Still, it's a good opening statement of intent from Chibbers that the show isn't going to retreat into playing it safe RTD lite stuff as I was expecting it to.

As for the casting of a woman, all for it and there's absolutely no reason not to do it. Even before the Moff started laying the pipe from almost his very first line as producer ("I'm a girl?"), the logic of regeneration is such nonsense at the service of the plot there's nothing you can't do with it. Audiences accepted regeneration energy zapping a clone of the Doctor's hand and making a human copy of him they'll be fine with this.

Not to sure what's so bad if this casting is designed to appeal to a demographic when that demographic would be women, or half of all people. There's a tendency from people who don't like the choice to paint it as only appealing to a small niche of PC gone mad SJW's when it's going to mean something to a lot more folk than that.

I mean, Twitter was full of women crying with joy at this. You'd have not gotten anything like that sort of reaction from another white bloke.

Tetsuro
2017-07-21, 04:56 PM
Audiences accepted regeneration energy zapping a clone of the Doctor's hand and making a human copy of him
Speak for yourself.

inflatable dalek
2017-07-21, 05:00 PM
Speak for yourself.


"Audiences" doesn't equal "You". Or me for that matter, but that was a very popular story.

Skyquake87
2017-07-21, 08:23 PM
I love that finale to Season 4, silly growing an extra Doctor and all :) I've seen bits of Broadchurch with Whittaker in, and she's a fine actor, so will be great. It will, of course, stand and fall on the writing.

...I'm sure it will all be fine!

andersonh1
2017-07-24, 06:13 PM
I was never convinced that Missy was the same character played by Roger Delgado, Peter Pratt and Anthony Ainley. Similarly, I'm going to have a really hard time seeing Whittaker as the same character played by Capaldi, Davison and Hartnell. It's just a bridge too far for me.

Denyer
2017-07-24, 06:40 PM
It's the Davison, Eccleston, Tennant etc ones that haven't gelled personally. A bit too casually "normal" and the scripts emphasised the yoof angle.

Tangent; they're playing up the "don't want to regenerate" angle these days aren't they?

edit: Audiences accepted regeneration energy zapping a clone of the Doctor's hand and making a human copy of him

Which ones were these then? Got the impression the Tylers were wearing thin by that point -- like most companions reactions tend to turn after a while, although Martha got it the worst. Did like the lampshading of dumping it into another universe, although with having since gotten heavy handed reasons why going back to Rory/Amy and others isn't an option, that's become business as usual.

Gouki
2017-07-25, 05:05 AM
I was never convinced that Missy was the same character played by Roger Delgado, Peter Pratt and Anthony Ainley. Similarly, I'm going to have a really hard time seeing Whittaker as the same character played by Capaldi, Davison and Hartnell. It's just a bridge too far for me.

So... why is it a bridge too far?

andersonh1
2017-07-25, 02:05 PM
So... why is it a bridge too far?

We're supposed to believe that this is the same person played by different actors. I think that despite all the differences in the actors playing the Master or the Doctor, there was at least the consistency that he was a male British actor that has run through them all that at least offered me something that was the same every time, some tiny straw to grasp. Regeneration is a concept that requires a pretty heft suspension of disbelief as it is, and I think it's finally been stretched to the breaking point.

I tried with Missy. It's not as though we haven't had her as a dry run for a female Doctor. We're not going into this blind. Missy is meant to be the same character that we last saw played by John Simms and Derek Jacobi, but I have never perceived her as "the Master". She's always seemed like someone different and separate. The change just doesn't work for me, and I doubt the Doctor will be any different.

Denyer
2017-07-25, 04:38 PM
Think there's some of Delgado and Ainley in Gomez's performance. Didn't particularly like Simms as he was like a mirror universe Simon Pegg at times.

Based on close to no footage, they need to (i.e. I think they ought to) aim for some decent costume throwbacks, and not to Davison. One or two Romana throwbacks would be fun, and possibly a K9.

andersonh1
2017-07-25, 06:13 PM
Think there's some of Delgado and Ainley in Gomez's performance. Didn't particularly like Simms as he was like a mirror universe Simon Pegg at times.

I've been watching a start to finish Who marathon for a few years now, and I'm currently watching Tennant's second season with the three parter that brought back the Master. I like Simms more than I did the first time around. He has a bit of Ainley's madness turned up to hyperactive levels, but he doesn't really seem to be drawing on any past performances, just playing the part as written. I think Davies just decided, along with other modern writers, that the Master's sole defining characteristic is that he's insane, which I maintain Delgado's version never was. I think Ainley's version might well have been, after all he'd done to himself. I thought Eric Roberts did a better job and was closer to Delgado than anyone else has managed, but I suspect I'm in the minority in liking his performance.

I'll have to watch Gomez again and see what I think this time when I get to Capaldi's episodes. I know they were going for a Pertwee/Delgado "former friends" vibe with her and Capaldi, but she's so silly half the time, and I don't see any of Delgado's suaveness or affability in her performance. And to be bluntly honest, I just don't see him turning into her down the line. Changing the character into a woman really disconnects them.

Denyer
2017-07-25, 07:43 PM
The Pertwee era's tendency towards ridiculousness is one of things I like most about it, TBH. Take that and blend it with a bit of mad and homicidal and that's what I find myself recognising.

And the Master isn't particularly fussy about surviving in a non-humanoid form. It's fitting that the incarnation that kills (as far as he knows) his future self is Simms, who represents a point at which madness was basically all there was to the character -- although I assume he's got some sort of contingency, like a time-looped copy or clone or something. (I suspect we'll see the Master back as a bloke versus the new Doctor).

Having grown up with harder science fiction such as Iain M Banks in which elective reconfiguration of biology is a thing (and it's the exception that Culture citizens stick with a body or gender for most of their existence, and uploading or transitioning into other forms of life -- including whole civilisations opting to leave the matter universe behind -- is very common) I guess I just see this as considerably more likely than time travel.

Tetsuro
2017-07-28, 02:16 PM
If anything, at this point I find my biggest point of contention with casting a woman in the role isn't because of the genderswap or the implications it might have, but it's effect on the fandom.

I'm honestly sick and tired of hearing about social politics all the time, and now I have one less thing I'm a fan of where that's not an issue. I've already had to block two people (not here, fortunately) for hurling insults at me because, hey, I don't like it so I must be a misogynist.

Cyberstrike nTo
2017-08-07, 11:12 PM
You know I'm actually excited to see the next season of Dr. Who. I love the idea of a female Doctor and I think it will bring a much needed breath of fresh air and also much needed new perspective on the Doctor. I can't wait to see what Jodie Whittaker does with the role.

It takes a lot to get me excited about a TV show now of days, which meaning I'm planning on how I'm going to scrape up the money to buy a season pass on XBL and/or PSN. Or do I wait for it to be on Netflix, Amazon Prime, or Blu-Ray?
Oh decisions, decisions, decisions.

Right now the only other shows that I do that are the CW/DCU TV shows Supergirl, Arrow, The Flash and DC's Legends of Tomorrow these are the only other shows that I actually can't wait to see new seasons.