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-   -   Transformers: More than Meets the Eye #37 (http://tfarchive.com/community/showthread.php?t=53938)

zigzagger 2015-02-03 03:24 PM

Transformers: More than Meets the Eye #37
 
Transformer: More than Meets the Eye #37 preview is up @ Comics Continuum.

It's out tomorrow, folks!

Unicron 2015-02-03 06:03 PM

Not sure if it's just me, but when I brought up those preview pages, my anti-virus popped a bunch of alerts telling me it caught some stuff. May want to try finding them elsewhere

Denyer 2015-02-03 07:16 PM

Are you running an ad-blocker?

http://i.imgur.com/q4boW2F.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mOqZEjF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tk4BF6y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SiyUd0R.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OELIFX2.jpg

Unicron 2015-02-03 08:35 PM

Not presently, no. Recently did a fresh install of Windows, there's a bunch of little things here and there I'd forgotten about and haven't gotten to

Knightdramon 2015-02-03 08:53 PM

I think there's an error---the book acknowledges MTMTE 9 and Ongoing...20 on the inside cover, but 20 is the space opera which has absolutely NOTHING to do with this, but the scenes from 21 [Megatron backstory] are on the exact same time as this one.

I have a theory...Rung is "forgotten" in the past when these guys make their final jump.

The next page [coupled with the front cover] probably covers the bar fight from 21, with Rung breaking cover---ie the Rung tossed on the window at Impactor/Megatron is our Rung. Then the opening of Shadowplay issue 1, with a "past" Rung assembling a Lost Light spaceship model is our Rung, possibly left back, trying to reminisce his memories, and ends up being stuck on a loop.

Remain in Light opening also makes sense, when Rung recognized the opening portal as something similar---he is actually re-living his story in a loop.

Somehow, information creep gets to him and he forgets what he is himself, and maybe an attention deflector or something is attached on him, which explains why half the bots forget who he is [even his patient, Red Alert] most of the times.

The earliest chronological appearance of Rung [pre Ongoing 21, ie our next page] is the Messatine mines on issue 34, where he interferes on Froid's and Trepan's stuff. What if he's very aware of what was going to happen to Megatron, and he used Shockwave's new laws as a front?

Crazy theory, but even Red Alert's backstory with Rung places him after Shadowplay.

It all fits, I tell you. It all fits.

You heard it here first. And if somebody comes out in the next 4 minutes and says that he had an earlier [chronological] appearance that ruins my theory, oh well.

Auntie Slag 2015-02-03 09:02 PM

About time! That's over a month that goalpost shifting, genre redefining, stupidly talented bastard's had me waiting. It had better come with two additional free issues, a send-away plush MTMTE character of your choice and free tea bags taped to the cover.

And a CD containing the two or three tracks that define every issue, with a painfully delicate & detailed explanation for each one that would make Thatcher cry.

I didn't carve '4 REAL' (with Rodimus Star) into my arm for nothing, J.

MikeB 2015-02-03 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightdramon;746140

You heard it here first. And if somebody comes out in the next 4 minutes and says that he had an earlier [chronological
appearance that ruins my theory, oh well.

In issue 1 (rereading, not some weird perfect recall thing) tailgate is thinking about Rungian self analysis 6 million years ago, but there's no reason why rung can't jump even further into the past before this arc is done, is there?

I like the theory, though I'll miss rung if it turns out to be true...

Knightdramon 2015-02-03 10:47 PM

Hmmm, I knew something was off.

The series has another error in the early issues though; Magnus refers to amendments on the Autobot code, happening after Tailgate's time, but the Autobot code should have been written after Sentinel adopted the name and Zeta formed a proper faction.

Meh. :p

Red Dave Prime 2015-02-04 11:32 AM

So.....



Need to re-read again but going by this issue, Roberts has set things up really well. Fair play that we are getting pay-offs so far down the line.

And...

SPOILER! (select to read)
Many of us were correct in thinking it was Megs Brainstorm was going for and not Pax. But still, the whole reveal to this is done really well.

zigzagger 2015-02-04 03:54 PM

As always, doing this on the fly. Just some super quick thoughts.

---

Figured it'd be Megatron. In 'season 2', it's always about Megatron!

By the time Roberts is done with him, we're going to know just about everything there is know about Megatron, huh? Think this is the first time we've seen the creation of, well, anyone in the IDWverse.

Hope to get more details next issue regarding that. And assuming Megatron was indeed forged, this may go some way to explaining (or rather, showing) the process.

....

Annnnd that's all the time I got. Will be back later.

Death's Head 2015-02-04 05:03 PM

In that last page he looks more like he's being Constructed Cold...

inflatable dalek 2015-02-04 08:47 PM

He also has a blue spark rather than the point 1 percenter green one he should have. Brainstorm on the other hand, has a green spark somewhere stashed around his person...




A fantastic issue. I'm a sucker for when an ongoing series does a Back to the Future 2 style "Mucking about in old stories" style time travel adventure and this pulled it off perfectly. I love the idea that Rung hadn't actually yet been as important as Rewind and the series thinks he is, him being everywhere that matters in the past is just down to his wacky time travel highjinks.

And Knightdramon was so nearly right in his theory! Excellent weaving in and out of the old art as well, especially as- whilst Rung in Shadowplay might have always been intended to be a future version- there wouldn't have been any thought of this when Chaos Theory was done (with the comic divided up into seasons, Chaoes Theory really is, using similar TV terms, a back door pilot).

I think those in the "Brainstorm isn't a Decepticon" camp are pretty much vindicated here. He may be up to no good, but whatever his plan his actions are just far to benign for a DJD mole. He could have killed past Rung. He could have blown up Maccadam's. Effectively his main plot this issue is to stop Megatron becoming Megatron- not kill him- by preventing a bar room brawl.

On the other hand, I'm now more convinced that ever the theory I suggested a few months ago about Rewind is true and it was him that betrayed everyone on the ALL. I think the DJD have Dominus Ambus and have been putting Vesper Lynd style coercion upon him to make him pass on information, probably for some time. The slaughter of his old crew wasn't what he had wanted, hence him being so keen to rescue Dominus in the past and prevent everything.

Terome 2015-02-05 12:56 PM

Yes, dug this. Took me another read to quite twig what was going on with Past Rung and Brainstorm and infer what was going on with the Dominus Ambus talk. Is the 'Functionist' timeline the one where Rewind meddled? We're getting all these teases to the start of the war - Terminus' instructions, Megatron getting arrested, Whirl's involvement - what if Dominus Ambus was the ultimate cause of the war and Megatron's ascension?

On Future Rung - it does make especial sense that Brainstorm would spot him because he would have known about his teetotal habits. Speaking of those, we now know why teetotal Rung was in Maccadam's in the first place.

Sweet catch on the blue spark detail. We also get to see what Whirl's crazy gun does and it seems to detonate sparks quite handily.

Quote:

I'm a sucker for when an ongoing series does a Back to the Future 2 style "Mucking about in old stories" style time travel adventure and this pulled it off perfectly.
The bit where Megatron cowers under the bar is so Marty Junior.

But hey, here's something I didn't like - the pages from older issues. Seemed a lot clumsier than I'd give this series credit for. A big long chat about Proteus' Promise had nothing to do with this story. The Impactor pages were more seamless but, wow, Roberts has really improved at dialogue since Chaos Theory, hasn't he? 'Five quarts of energon in the wind' makes me wince.

The bar brawl that follows is pretty awesome though. On improvement - how great is Milne at crowded, chaotic scenes now?

Not sure I quite follow the Whirl backstory. The Functionists sent the Heavies to break his stuff and then, later, had the Senate take his face? Why is that a big revelation?

Oh yeah! Amidst it all - Cyclonus' apology. The shoe finally dropped. I've been tense about that for years. And is Tailgate inside Cyclonus while he's protesting against Brainstorm's execution? Love how willing Rodimus is to kill him, by the way. He doesn't have a high opinion of traitors.

Anyone think all this was just a way for Brainstorm to impress Perceptor? That would be a more powerful motivator for him than caring whether the war happened or not.

Terome 2015-02-05 08:33 PM

Stray thought - will Rung's tendency to go unnoticed mean that Past Rung and Future Rung will swap places before the LL crew heads for the present?

inflatable dalek 2015-02-05 08:40 PM

Present Rung becomes Tarn!

You know, considering Rewind has access to all this CCTV fotage and can accurately place what everyone was up to in the past, it's odd he's never asked Rung about the day he was thrown into Megatron considering that's quite an important event.

Or asked any of the others how they managed to both be in the bar that day and in other places. Especially as this now seems to be a predestination paradox.

Terome 2015-02-05 10:16 PM

Well, of course if he had those particular angles then we wouldn't be in this situation... Though if he'd asked Rung he would have just gone the way it went when Megatron asked him.

I've been thinking of Rewind's database. It does present a storytelling problem for exactly reasons like you mention and I reckon its corruption won't just be so that Brainstorm can be hooked up to it like they did to dissuade Tailgate. Its loss may be permanent so that the upcoming Dominus arc won't have to answer questions like, 'Why doesn't Rewind just look this/that/the other up.'

Also, I imagine Megatron would get a real kick out of an encyclopedic knowledge of what would have happened had he not killed everyone. Rewind might end up writing Megatron's next book rather that Optimus' biography. Seeing as how we're all about writing this season it would suit for Megatron to take up the pen again.

Hey, here's something else I liked - even though the laws of the day in no way apply to the Lost Light crew, and that he's done far worse things in his time, Chromedome still has the fear of getting a fine for being in a class-inappropriate place. That is the most Catholic thing in the world.

inflatable dalek 2015-02-05 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terome (Post 746197)
Well, of course if he had those particular angles then we wouldn't be in this situation... Though if he'd asked Rung he would have just gone the way it went when Megatron asked him.

Another reason for the corruption of it is likely that as Rung's database has been replaced by the one from the new timeline it neatly deals with them not just asking him to check up on where Brainstorm might be. Smart move by Mr. Roberts there! I'm just more curious as to why this has never come up before (like when, for example, Rung interviewed Impactor when doing his Weckers psychological profile). It seems Megatron was the first person ever to mention it to him as Rung seemed to find it a bit baffling.

Terome 2015-02-05 10:34 PM

Oh yes, good reasoning. It's easy to imagine that Impactor would have some complicated emotions about Megatron and might not have been interested in that line of inquiry.

Hmm... I just realised that when Roberts does go down that 'Impactor's back' road that the presence of Megatron would make it a very different story from whatever fragments he and Roche had at the end of Wreckers. Personally, I hate 'big returns' and think Impactor should stay away and play among the stars with Pharma, Tyrest, Overlord, et al.

That would be nice, wouldn't it? If they were all just having a fantastic time playing stickball or something. Not a care in the world.

Apart from Impactor, when would anyone bring up that day in Macaddams to Rung? Everybody else in the room likely perished in the war. Nightbeat might ask impertinent questions, since something about that guy with his model ship has been nagging at him for ages.

zigzagger 2015-02-06 03:20 PM

Got a moment to add a few more thoughts.

Yeah, this storyline is just plain fun. Has all the adventure, and world-building, and... fun I've come to expect from the title.

Nice touch with the reprinted pages from Chaos Theory. As well as with the new, previously off-panel bits that had been added. Felt like genuine improvements. If Elegant Chaos is intended to be the conclusion to Roberts' ongoing flashback-trilogy-thingy, it felt appropriate we come back to where it all started, you know. Brings us full circle.

Serves as a nice refresher for those who missed Chaos Theory, too.

Do agree with Terome's quibble with the Shadowplay pages, though. Not nearly as seamless, their inclusion.

While nothing major, that was some nice character development for Cyclonus. He's just a big ol' sentimentalist. And his late apology to Tailgate had me grinning like a fool. Certainly not the star of the show, but Cykes still had some standout moments for me.

Chromedome and ALL Rewind's relationship gets more and more uncomfortable (for me) as the story goes along. And OLL Rewind never seemed this preoccupied with finding Dominus Ambus. At least from what we were able to tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inflatable dalek (Post 746169)
I'm now more convinced that ever the theory I suggested a few months ago about Rewind is true and it was him that betrayed everyone on the ALL....

I'm convinced too. Still seems suspect to me that Magnus's memories have not melded with the Functionalist reality like Rewind's data has.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terome (Post 746180)
On improvement - how great is Milne at crowded, chaotic scenes now?

I know, right? He's come a long way since Megatron Origin (seriously, check out M:O; it's a good point of reference). Has a much keener understanding of space and what have you.

Though to give credit, Lafuente's coloring does compliment Milne's pencils. Quite liking her work, actually. Very vibrant with good attention to detail... and this is Milne we're talking about, so there's a lot of freakin' detail.

At this point, I'm going to assume she's replaced Burcham, yes?

Quote:

Not sure I quite follow the Whirl backstory. The Functionists sent the Heavies to break his stuff and then, later, had the Senate take his face? Why is that a big revelation?
Glad I wasn't the only. Got a big fat "Well, duh" from me.

inflatable dalek 2015-02-06 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zigzagger (Post 746235)
Chromedome and ALL Rewind's relationship gets more and more uncomfortable (for me) as the story goes along. And OLL Rewind never seemed this preoccupied with finding Dominus Ambus. At least from what we were able to tell.

I'm trying to think, did we ever hear OLL Rewind mention Dominus directly in the present, or have we only ever heard about him from Chromedome up till now?

Something is definitely going on there.



Quote:

At this point, I'm going to assume she's replaced Burcham, yes?
Yeah, it's a permanent gig. I didn't attend it, but based on what I was told by someone who did, it seems Milne gave the impression during his art class at the last AA that he and Burcham had a fractious working relationship. That's not to suggest any behind the scenes issues as such-based on the same talk Milne and Roberts go at it tooth and claw over the smallest details as well because both care a lot- but Burcham may have fancied something a bit more relaxing as a result.

Terome 2015-02-06 05:46 PM

Court intrigue!

I do miss Burcham - his muted palette and paper textures were a welcome addition to post-Dreamwave Transformers. Joanna's colours have grown on me but they aren't arty enough for my dumb tastes.

So I think with the Senate / Functionist thing, there's a deliberate effort being made to make it seem as though they act separately when, in actuality, the Senate or factions of it were under the control of the Functionists, even when their power was publicly ebbing.

And I am guessing that Whirl will be put in a position where he will have to spare Megatron or spare the Functionists and he'll be all, no way!

Quote:

I'm convinced too. Still seems suspect to me that Magnus's memories have not melded with the Functionalist reality like Rewind's data has.
But isn't that exactly what we see when we get to 'subject not recognised?'

Quote:

I'm trying to think, did we ever hear OLL Rewind mention Dominus directly in the present, or have we only ever heard about him from Chromedome up till now?

Something is definitely going on there.
Hmm... who narrated that chunk of biography we had on DA? Where we saw him 'exchanging fuel' with Rewind and such?

Unicron 2015-02-06 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terome (Post 746241)
Hmm... who narrated that chunk of biography we had on DA? Where we saw him 'exchanging fuel' with Rewind and such?

That was Domey, explaining who Dominus was to Tailgate

zigzagger 2015-02-06 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terome (Post 746241)

But isn't that exactly what we see when we get to 'subject not recognised?'

Mmm, possibly. Though I do wonder, is that a result of the Functionalist timeline converging with the other, or was that the result of Brainstorm revising his plan?

I kinda gathered he hadn't initially intended to go that far back in time.

Terome 2015-02-06 10:24 PM

Quote:

Mmm, possibly. Though I do wonder, is that a result of the Functionalist timeline converging with the other, or was that the result of Brainstorm revising his plan?

I kinda gathered he hadn't initially intended to go that far back in time.

Could definitely be a red herring. I'm assuming at this point that the Functionalist timeline is one where Megatron never arose / the war never happened. It appears to be what we're supposed to think but it could be a feint... the workings of the timelines converging are very vague right now.

Quote:

That was Domey, explaining who Dominus was to Tailgate
Ah, cheers. Guess Dalek is right - OLL Rewind never brought him up.

Red Dave Prime 2015-02-07 12:02 AM

So regarding rewind - are we thinking that at some point since coming on board OLL Domey wiped OLL Rewind but this didnt happen (for whatever reason) between ALL Domey & Rewind? There is that off-hand remark in issue 12 about rewind being allergic to ultra violet light and of course thats how you spot whether someone has had been messed with. Wonder what the reasons were - is it possible that...

Ok, on OLL, the snuff discs are found and rodimus gives out to rewind. Realising that Rewind is still obsessed with Dominus, Chrome dome does his needle trick. In the aftermath of OLL Rewinds death, he feels guilt with this which explains some of his comments to rewind in issue 37.

However back on board the ALL this never happens (Rodimus being dead and all) so Chromedome never learns of the discs. Its possible he never even learns of Dominus (again, going by the conversation in issue 37) Rewind discovers that dominus is on the discs in some form and that its linked to the DJD which in turn leads to Rewind contacting the DJD leading to the massacre. His hope is to use the time machine to go back before the DJD did what they did.

Maybe.

Auntie Slag 2015-02-07 07:13 PM

Why is Brainstorm trying to kill the leader of a side that's already lost the war?

inflatable dalek 2015-02-07 07:41 PM

Well, assuming that is what he's doing (Roberts is a wiley fox)... Killing Megatron and preventing the war from ever happening could save quintillions (totally a real word) of lives.

Plus, actually pulling a gun out seems to be a last resort. The previous plan was just to knock out Past Rung and prevent the chain of events that led to Megatron being horse whipped by Whirl and really set him off.

Auntie Slag 2015-02-08 12:00 AM

I don’t think Brainstorm could care less about saving billions or ‘quintillions’ of lives. A mad scientist like him prospers best in wartime, being given licence to create all manner of nasty and strange devices. There’s a phrase about war often creating the best situation for innovation and advancement, so if anything, the war coming to an end is the end of a purposeful life for him.

Some of his actions suggest he cares about no-one, apart from a little sentimentality towards Chromedome losing another Conjunx Endura, and the desire to be recognised above Perceptor… and these two are alive and well. There’s been no backstory yet to display he’s lost anyone or anything important through the war.

Interestingly the gun he’s about to shoot Megatron with has a bit of resemblance to a Walther P-38. I’d bet the cover price of a TF UK comic from 1987 that its not a gun necessarily used for killing. Maybe he’s going back to enhance Megatron in some way?

Skyquake87 2015-02-08 08:58 AM

I wondered that - he's carrying around that 1%er spark.

...I was about to say there's 'more than meets the eye' without any trace of irony, but stopped myself. Phew. Think I got away with that one...

Elsewhere, I really liked the bar scene with Tailgate going about how he's potential Wreckers material and then asking where his curly straw is. Adorable. Loved the gags about his face too.

And look what I handsome chap Whirl was before the Senate/ Functionists got ahold of him.

...just on the colours, I really like Joanna's brighter and bolder hues. They really help sell the splendor of pre-war Cybertron in a way I don't think Burcham's more washed out muted tones would have done. Does mean the reprinted Chaos Theory pages stick out though and are quite obviously a reprint.

Auntie Slag 2015-02-08 09:53 AM

On another note, why did Cyclonus kick Tailgate in the stomach again? Apart from it being a reference to one of the early issues, I didn't get it!

Unicron 2015-02-08 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auntie Slag (Post 746275)
On another note, why did Cyclonus kick Tailgate in the stomach again? Apart from it being a reference to one of the early issues, I didn't get it!

Pretty sure that's meant to be a flashback

Auntie Slag 2015-02-08 12:56 PM

But I don't see why this flashback is relevant now. Apologies if I'm being dim!

Denyer 2015-02-08 02:03 PM

Cyc's just having a moment of reflection.

Auntie Slag 2015-02-08 09:36 PM

Weird, I still don't get it. Cyclonus isn't a Decepticon, and Tailgate has long since resolved his Autobot/Decepticon allegiances, and now they're best buddies. So the beating, to my mind, seems totally unnecessary when both characters have since moved on?

Denyer 2015-02-08 10:12 PM

It isn't mind-blowing to Tailgate, who spent millions of years deactivated. Cyclonus spent it in the company of genocidal maniacs, some of whom were complicit in the ruining of Cybertron... it turned him into someone he didn't like much, he's overcome with regret in general, etc.

It may also indicate that that's what Tailgate thinks about in connection to the apology, rather than Cyc.

Auntie Slag 2015-02-08 10:32 PM

Yeah I guess, but Cyclonus is also a person of honour like a Samurai. I don't see him randomly beating anyone else up, or punching the wall because of his traumatic time past dealings with a bunch of murderers. I consider him far more level headed than Rodimus, Trailcutter and the others. It seems such a weird, unstructured thing. And if he's honourable and got some anger issues, it would behoove him go and have a chat with Rung rather than occasionally give Tailgate a swift kick in the balls every time his thoughts get dark.

I guess that's my point; I'd expect someone like him to find a solution rather than simply hurt his friend and apologise, that would be in character. Whirl I could easily see beating someone up and semi-apologising, for instance... but Cyclonus? It breaks him a bit for me.

We can drop this if you like, there's something I'm not getting. Maybe its because I've been able to understand everyone's actions up to this point... Whirl, in his own batty way, makes sense.

Denyer 2015-02-08 10:49 PM

Hang on... are you reading that panel with the kicking as happening at the same time as what's on the rest of the page?

Flashback. The abusive rage happened a few volumes ago.

Auntie Slag 2015-02-08 10:55 PM

Really? Unicron mentioned that a few posts ago but I didn't really understand. Does it say somewhere on the page that its a past event? I'm getting the impression this was obvious to everyone but me!

Denyer 2015-02-08 11:23 PM

Previously there's been more emphasis on using muted colours for flashbacks, but the visual shorthand's the same as used later in this issue with Whirl -- rounded corners.

A little box saying 'Issue #4' might have helped, though.

Auntie Slag 2015-02-08 11:41 PM

I totally didn't get that!

Otherwise (and entirely apart from this oddity), I found the first read through quite hard going, and the second almost sublime. I put a lot of it to the fact that, for the first time the art has felt properly clogged up.

People have been saying how great LaFuente's colouring is, but it got far too confusing this issue. The panels with Whirl going mental on The Heavies was just a mess. Trying to make out the detail was hard work, and the whole thing was too dark for its own good. I miss Burcham's colours. I felt he complemented Milne's complex drawings perfectly. It didn't matter how detailed a panel because, I could always make out every bit just fine.

I wonder if the problem with this issue was that someone had dialled down the contrast too much on some pages?

And poor old Springarm. I always imagined he & Wheelarch were done with a sword, but to have his head torn off, in panel. I know its been done before with Cyclonus back in the original Marvel UK run, but what persists with me is the scene from Megatron: Origin where Megs does the same to Bumper. That felt proper grisly and we only heard it happen. This has some of that feel. Ugh!


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