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Old 2014-11-01, 08:35 PM   #41
Warcry
Likes Beast Wars toys. A lot.
 
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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terome View Post
I can totally buy that Trailcutter was weakened and caught off-guard and so Kaon was able to easily get the upper hand. In a fair fight, maybe it wouldn't have been so decisive but what would be the fun in that?
I suppose it depends on how you define "fair fight". The scenario Knightdramon alluded to above wasn't really "fair" IMO, since it pitted a 100% Trailbreaker against a severely weakened Kaon. If they were both 100%, I'd probably give the edge to the 'Con (those Tesla coils are going to seriously mess a bot up at close range).

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
I didn't spot the sound effect right off, but I am surprised to see a few people say they didn't immediately think Trailbreaker was supposed to be dead (nearly as much as I was that the people who did assume that were really, really upset about it and that was the reaction that had mildly surprised Roberts), the poor guy's brain module is squished on page, that seems to be trying very, very hard to go "This is a proper death" (though who knows, with a time travel plot coming up...).
Except not really, going by the art. If it was supposed to be squished the artist did a terrible job of showing that, because the art doesn't convey that meaning at all (strictly IMO of course). That's what I'm trying to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Say that when examining Vos that First Aid had found he had a chemical imbalance in the brain that was the source of his murderous impulses and a simple bit of surgery would completely remove them. Vos in his current state of mind would (literally) violently object to this. Would it be morally wrong for him cut open his head and fix the problem?
You're damned right it would be wrong! It's is absolutely ghastly to perform surgery on a patient without their consent unless it's immediately necessary to save their life. And not even then, if they make it clear they wouldn't want it. Doctors aren't gods and they don't get to ignore their patients' fundamental rights as a sentient being just because they think they know better. Just because Vos is evil doesn't mean that he loses the right to decide whether or not he accepts medical treatment. An absolutely batshit mental patient (which, just to be clear, neither Megatron nor Vos are anywhere near being) might need to be medicated to keep them from hurting themselves, but invasive brain surgery? We stopped lobotomizing people decades ago and for good reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Now, obviously Megatron isn't Vos bad at this point in time, but Trepan's stance would be exactly the same- Megs is mentally ill and his consent or not is irrelevant. And that isn't in and of itself a wrong viewpoint, Doctor's, especially when dealing with brain complaints, frequently do have to deal with patients against their will in terms of giving out medication or surgery and doing things that will alter their personalities, usually drastically. That doesn't put them on the same level as executioners.
If we were talking about ethical doctors pursuing legitimate treatments, perhaps. But let's not kid ourselves. I don't think for a second that Trepan or Froid actually believe that Megatron is in any way "ill". There's no way to make a judgment like that from reading someone's file for a few seconds. They're regime hatchet men, and they'd been told what to do with him before they got on that shuttle. Frankly, the only reason those two were sent instead of an assassin is because they wanted a puppet wearing Megatron's body to denounce the Decepticon cause once the threat had been neutralized.

When "doctors" pretend that enemies of the regime are mentally ill and perform unnecessary procedures on them to make them more docile, they goddamn well are on the same level of executioners, if not worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
The thing with Vos is, that even though he's an especially bad example, it's been made very clear at this point that the rest of the Galaxy (and who else can judge the Transformers war crimes from an impartial perspective?) consider both armies to be as bad as each other, Bluestreak himself would probably count as a war criminal by any reasonable standard (indeed, trying to refuse medical aid to a dying enemy soldier would probably count as such), post war can they really count their past crimes against them or is everyone damned equally?
The difference is that the DJD have continued to commit atrocities (against both sides) in the three or four years after the war (somehow) officially ended with AHM. When everyone else basically threw their hands up, agreed that they'd had enough and tried to have a fresh start, Tarn and co. said "LOLNO" and continued on with torturing Decepticons to death for mostly-imagined crimes while showing no compunction about slaughtering noncombatants aboard an "enemy" ship. They're basically a terrorist group at this point, not soldiers.

As for what Bluestreak, Mainframe and First Aid did in denying a transfusion to Vos...I dunno. You can't really force someone to donate blood (or the equivalent), can you? Even to save a life. How is that any different from holding a draft and forcing people to "donate" a kidney to get someone off of dialysis? And would Vos have even wanted Autobot Energon in his veins? TNG did a good episode about that, with Worf and a Romulan (and it was all the stronger, IMO, for not trying to preach to us about which was the right choice).

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Plus- none of our three know about the ALL at this stage, so that can't come into their debate.
I guess? Without knowing when this happens it's hard to say what they do and don't know. There was some confusion about the timeline up above, wasn't there? But either way that's hardly the only time the DJD have attacked Autobots since the war ended -- we hear about a battle with them in Bullets, and it sounded like they were still in full-on supervillain mode in Delphi. So even if they didn't know about what happened in orbit they're well aware that the DJD are continuing to butcher their kind with impunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
You've basically imagined a way the scene could have been done quite badly that Roberts has clearly avoided deliberately so as not to make the DJD as insanely Mary Sueish as you fear, and then you've gotten quite annoyed about it. Despite the entire scenario only being in your head- if anything I'd have a word with yourself.
I'm not the one who asked the question. I just answered how I thought it would have played out going off of how the DJD have been portrayed to date.

Just to be clear, I do appreciate Roberts finding a way to avoid making them look like Mary Sues for once. If he keeps it up I may eventually stop groaning every time they show up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Of course, we still don't really know if Megatron's genuinely reformed... As for the others Knightdramon mentioned, I'm not seeing any drastic change in stance here. Starscream has always been a sneaky opportunist, Soundwave has practical common sense about 50% of the time and Shockwave wanted to destroy the entire Universe which seems a pretty strange definition of him being a misunderstood nice guy.
Fair point. The comics are in a strange place now though, where the main villains really haven't reformed or started behaving any differently, but they've started to be presented in a sympathetic way regardless. With Megatron it's been well done, but with the others it's been a bit ham-handed. Starscream in particular should have been overthrown or assassinated about fifty times for acting the way he does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Slag View Post
I’m intrigued as to how someone is able to warp in and out of Trailcutters forcefields. I thought they were utterly impregnable. Skywarp for example wouldn’t be flustered at all by one.
I sort of scratched my head about this too. If magical teleporter energy can go through it, then why not lasers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
Think of it like those emergency lights in schools and other large buildings. One of their uses is to kick on when the power goes out, so it's kind of useless for them to simply run off the building's power. I would liken the panic bubble to those.
I guess? It doesn't really make much sense though. The bubble is there to protect him. If he's dead, he doesn't need protecting (or the forcefield) anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
Perceptor is on board still, no? Him, Ratchet, First Aid and any other science/engineering/medical specialists on board could all work together on it. Hell, Megatron would probably consult on it, since he had combiner tech built into one of his recent bodies and he's known to have been after the tech for forever. Stands to reason he'd have some knowledge on the subject.
I forgot about Perceptor! Yeah, he could probably do it.
 
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