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Old 2014-11-05, 09:14 PM   #47
inflatable dalek
Duke of Kidderminster
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Kidderminster UK

late reply due to me being very busy the last few days Doing A Thing.

Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
Except not really, going by the art. If it was supposed to be squished the artist did a terrible job of showing that, because the art doesn't convey that meaning at all (strictly IMO of course). That's what I'm trying to say.
Fair enough, but based on the twitter meltdown readers who found the art confusing were greatly outnumbered by those that did decide Trailbreaker was dead and were very upset (as Roberts was responding to people who really, really disliked the decision to a "I'm not going to read any more" level, he's unlikely to have ignored those simply asking if Trailbreaker had actually died).

You're damned right it would be wrong! It's is absolutely ghastly to perform surgery on a patient without their consent unless it's immediately necessary to save their life. And not even then, if they make it clear they wouldn't want it. Doctors aren't gods and they don't get to ignore their patients' fundamental rights as a sentient being just because they think they know better. Just because Vos is evil doesn't mean that he loses the right to decide whether or not he accepts medical treatment. An absolutely batshit mental patient (which, just to be clear, neither Megatron nor Vos are anywhere near being) might need to be medicated to keep them from hurting themselves, but invasive brain surgery? We stopped lobotomizing people decades ago and for good reason.
But Doctor's can and do make choices for patients considered unfit to decide for themselves every day, sometimes with disastrous results to be sure (there's no shortage of medication that turned out to have nasty side effects, or people being "Treated" for things which would no longer consider mental illness), but there are folks who are genuinely unable to decide what's best for them and the doctor's treating them are certainly not monsters.

If we were talking about ethical doctors pursuing legitimate treatments, perhaps. But let's not kid ourselves. I don't think for a second that Trepan or Froid actually believe that Megatron is in any way "ill".
I'd say the scary thing is, however flippant they might be (and Ratchet was taking the piss out of Megatron to his face whilst fixing him in Dark Cybertron), Trepan and Froid- plus the functionalists in general- do absolutely beleive what they're doing is right and their civilisation hinges upon everyone knowing their place and function.

The difference is that the DJD have continued to commit atrocities (against both sides) in the three or four years after the war (somehow) officially ended with AHM. When everyone else basically threw their hands up, agreed that they'd had enough and tried to have a fresh start, Tarn and co. said "LOLNO" and continued on with torturing Decepticons to death for mostly-imagined crimes while showing no compunction about slaughtering noncombatants aboard an "enemy" ship. They're basically a terrorist group at this point, not soldiers.
Do any of our boys know about that though? Everyone's scared of the DJD as boogy men and we've had a sign of what they've been up to, but I don't think the Lost Light crew have had any real indication that they're still active and haven't taken up horticulture before finding the ALL (and again, Bluestreak and co don't know about that).

Mind, Vos is of course still an extreme war criminal, but that's something for a level of authority way beyond Bluestreak to deal with (it probably would have meant Vos being made Admiral of the Autobot fleet).

As for what Bluestreak, Mainframe and First Aid did in denying a transfusion to Vos...I dunno. You can't really force someone to donate blood (or the equivalent), can you? Even to save a life. How is that any different from holding a draft and forcing people to "donate" a kidney to get someone off of dialysis? And would Vos have even wanted Autobot Energon in his veins? TNG did a good episode about that, with Worf and a Romulan (and it was all the stronger, IMO, for not trying to preach to us about which was the right choice).
That is a fantastic episode of TNG, though I always thought it was a shame Worf was given a slightly easy out by the Romulan telling him outright he didn't want Klingon blood.

But equally, whilst Worf had every right to decide his own personal code of ethics, he made that choice when he joined Star Fleet, an organisation that requires its members to live by a specific standard (as Picard eventually calls Worf out on when he stabs Duras to death and he tries to use the "It's cool with the Klingon way" excuse). With a less sympathetic commander that would have effectively ended his Federation career, especially as if not for the luck of there being another Romulan on the planet who could be used to prove Tomolak had lied the death of the patient would have started a Romulan/Federation war.

Equally, the Autobots have a firm code of behaviour (as Ultra Magnus so likes to share). Bluestreak made his choice about what his ethical standards are when he signed up (and he's still a badge wearing Autobot. Though thinking on it, it's not been very well established exactly what the standing of everyone is in relation to still being enlisted).

Fair point. The comics are in a strange place now though, where the main villains really haven't reformed or started behaving any differently, but they've started to be presented in a sympathetic way regardless. With Megatron it's been well done, but with the others it's been a bit ham-handed. Starscream in particular should have been overthrown or assassinated about fifty times for acting the way he does.
That's just the old "Every villain is the hero of his own story" thing though, them being given motivations that make sense from their points of view (well, bar Shockwave whose plan still makes no sense) isn't the same as them being nice people by any other standard.

I do disagree with Knightdramon though about Shockwave being sympathetic just because he thought he was doing the best for his species by destroying the entire Universe (?!), that's like those Sentinel Prime apologists who moan about Optimus being so mean to him in Dark of the Moon for just wanting to enslave humanity.

I sort of scratched my head about this too. If magical teleporter energy can go through it, then why not lasers?
Whilst Trek has conditioned us to think transporters can't work through shields (except when they can), has Transformers ever gone with that?
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