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Old 2014-11-05, 10:59 PM   #49
Warcry
Likes Beast Wars toys. A lot.
 
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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Can I just stop for a second and say how awesome it is that a Transformers comic is bringing up discussions like this? It's almost like it's becoming real, grown-up fiction now!

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Fair enough, but based on the twitter meltdown readers who found the art confusing were greatly outnumbered by those that did decide Trailbreaker was dead and were very upset (as Roberts was responding to people who really, really disliked the decision to a "I'm not going to read any more" level, he's unlikely to have ignored those simply asking if Trailbreaker had actually died).
Obviously I can't speak for those people, but we've got at least two people here (myself and Knightdramon) saying that we didn't get the intending meaning from that panel. And I'm sure there's more. So at the very least, the intended dramatic impact was lost on some of us.

And are people seriously freaking out about Trailbreaker dying? I mean...Trailbreaker? Really? He barely even had a personality. It's a bit of a waste to kill him before he got to do anything meaningful, I agree, but it obviously happened for big plot reasons (pushing the LL/DJD confrontation) rather than simply shock value.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
But Doctor's can and do make choices for patients considered unfit to decide for themselves every day, sometimes with disastrous results to be sure (there's no shortage of medication that turned out to have nasty side effects, or people being "Treated" for things which would no longer consider mental illness), but there are folks who are genuinely unable to decide what's best for them and the doctor's treating them are certainly not monsters.
To a certain extent and when there's no other option, perhaps. But considering how often those "benign" involuntary treatments seem to get reclassified as "atrocities" by future generations? I'm not especially sanguine about doctors having carte blanche to decide what's best for their patients. There's a good reason why medical treatments usually need to be cleared through an incapacitated person's next-of-kin rather than society just telling doctors to do what they think is best -- the next-of-kin are supposed to know what the patient themselves would want.

Sometimes that means the patient doesn't get the ideal treatment, but I'd much rather have that than some stranger making decisions for me just because they've got a stethoscope and a lab coat.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
I'd say the scary thing is, however flippant they might be (and Ratchet was taking the piss out of Megatron to his face whilst fixing him in Dark Cybertron), Trepan and Froid- plus the functionalists in general- do absolutely beleive what they're doing is right and their civilisation hinges upon everyone knowing their place and function.
The expression on Trepan's face while he's working on Megatron puts the lie to that, IMO. In that moment he's clearly a bully taking a great deal of pleasure exerting his dominance over someone lower on the social totem pole than he is. Likewise, if Froid had any ethics at all he would meet with his patient and try to cure him through noninvasive means before scheduling him for brain surgery. Even the laziest of doctors wouldn't proscribe such drastic treatment without actually examining the patient first.

That's not to say that they don't think they're doing what's right for the cause, but they're not doing it because they think it's medically necessary. They're doing it because it's politically necessary, because it's necessary to protect the system. It's the equivalent of a doctor in 1800s Georgia amputating the tongue from a slave who was telling his fellows that they didn't have to put up with their lot in life. If they're willing to do that, they're in gross breach of medical ethics and should probably look for a different career choice (which ironically, the system they're defending would forbid them to do...).

Sidenote: how in the world is Rung a psychiatrist on Functionist Cybertron? He's classified as an ornament. Shouldn't he be on display in a museum somewhere?

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Do any of our boys know about that though? Everyone's scared of the DJD as boogy men and we've had a sign of what they've been up to, but I don't think the Lost Light crew have had any real indication that they're still active and haven't taken up horticulture before finding the ALL (and again, Bluestreak and co don't know about that).
First Aid and anyone else left on the ship from Delphi would. The DJD base was on the same planet as the hospital and they were treating soldiers injured in battles with them well after AHM (in Bullets). Exactly what they were doing isn't clear, but they were definitely prosecuting a war that everyone else agreed was over and we've seen more than once what their idea of fair battle tactics is.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
But equally, whilst Worf had every right to decide his own personal code of ethics, he made that choice when he joined Star Fleet, an organisation that requires its members to live by a specific standard (as Picard eventually calls Worf out on when he stabs Duras to death and he tries to use the "It's cool with the Klingon way" excuse). With a less sympathetic commander that would have effectively ended his Federation career, especially as if not for the luck of there being another Romulan on the planet who could be used to prove Tomolak had lied the death of the patient would have started a Romulan/Federation war.
Actually, the episode made it sound like they couldn't hold it against Worf or order him to do it due to Starfleet's rather idealistic regulations. In fact, I got the impression towards the end that Worf was practically begging Picard to order him because he knew it was the right thing to do but he couldn't do it without an honourable excuse. Starfleet's regulations about personal behaviour seem to be absolutely insane, though, considering how many times their officers (not even just Worf!) are seen to run off and murder foreign nationals and/or commit acts of terrorism against foreign nations with absolutely zero consequences.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Equally, the Autobots have a firm code of behaviour (as Ultra Magnus so likes to share). Bluestreak made his choice about what his ethical standards are when he signed up (and he's still a badge wearing Autobot. Though thinking on it, it's not been very well established exactly what the standing of everyone is in relation to still being enlisted).
I'm not entirely sure that's true, in the IDWverse. The Autobot code is a ponderously bulky and bureaucratic thing, by the sounds of it, and in practice the only screener for becoming an Autobot seems to be "do you want to kill Decepticons?"

I mean, in theory it'd be nice if what you say is true, but in practice they employed Whirl for four million years.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Whilst Trek has conditioned us to think transporters can't work through shields (except when they can), has Transformers ever gone with that?
Transformers fiction almost never features any sort of transporter or shield anyway, so it's not had much to say either way. From a practical standpoint, though, forcefields that can be teleported through just aren't very useful.

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Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
Officially it's supposed to be contained to just the Transformers title (formerly RID), last I heard anyway. There's nothing saying Roberts can't do his own take on it though.
This, more or less. All IDW said is that MTMTE wouldn't be pulled into a crossover like last time, not that we wouldn't see combiners on the Lost Light at all. Given Hasbro's recent toy-cramming proclivities I think we well, but as its' own story arc not connected to the one on Earth/Cybertron.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
And thinking on the brain surgery side of things...

Pure speculation, but considering the brain module has been established as one of three absolutely essential parts of any Transformer, operations on it pretty much have to be fairly common don't they? Nearly everything else can be ripped off and replaced if need be but when the brain module is gone it's gone and everything would have to be done to fix it
I don't think that necessarily follows. The spark is an absolutely essential part too, but slice yours in half and your doctors (other than Pharma apparently) won't have a clue how to fix it. Brain modules might be serviceable, but it's equally possible that you can't touch the hardware (as opposed to the software, via Shadowplay) without flat-out killing the patient. We don't really know enough to say at this point.

We might learn more next issue though, if First Aid and Ratchet try to put Trailbreaker's brain back together.
 
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