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Old 2015-10-23, 03:15 PM   #46
inflatable dalek
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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post

Also Riker was something of a hotshot, apparently. He'd actually graduated at the same time as Geordi and only had seven years of experience by the time the series started. That doesn't really add up to me, given the job that he has and all the experiences he's said to have gone through. Also apparently Riker is almost a decade younger than the man playing him, which almost-but-not-quite works when he's a babyfaced skinny dude in season one. But by the time the finale rolls around he's the oldest-looking 35 year old in the galaxy.
Blimey, I knew Picard was about a decade older than Stewart, but I didn't know Riker went the other way. Alaska must have some hard living if he was only in his twenties in season 1.

I wonder if Data spent a lot of time on Aquiel style one or two man deep space assignments with a lot of monotonous routine? He'd seem suited to it and would explain his lack of social development, plus you never really hear anything about his prior crews ulike Picard, Riker and Geordi.


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Yeah, you'd think if they were going to guilt-trip anyone on the crew it'd be Riker, since he's the only person on the senior staff who's actually from North America. The connection that they drummed up for Picard was tenuous at best. Not to mention how silly it was that the colonists knew about it. I mean, how many people can tell you who their ancestors were and what they were doing in the 1700s now, let alone four hundred years in the future? Most branches of my family tree can't be traced much father back than the mid-1800s.
Plus Picard, who was all "Holding Worf accountable for the crimes of his Dad is a dick move" is genuinely remorseful and feels responsibility. I always suspect Old Indian guy was just playing him.


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That's a fair assessment, especially when you consider the state of Starfleet at the time. The backbone of the fleet was the 2280s-vintage Excelsior, Constellation, Oberth and Miranda-class designs, and there seemed to have been very little design work or shipbuilding done between them and the Galaxy and Nebula classes in the 2360s.
Mind, them keeping the same basic shape and class designations doesn't mean there weren't drastic changes to the designs as they went along. An Enterprise B style Excelsior (and isn't it odd how we went all the way to the fourth season of DS9 without seeing one of those in the 24th century? Killing Kirk must have really put a dampener on enthusiasm for the extra fins) could hold its own against the only year and a bit old dedicated warship Defiant so it's presumably more modern than it looks.

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The only design we actually see in service that debuted between those two generations was the Ambassador-class, and those seem to be relatively thin on the ground (a shame since they're the prettiest Starfleet ship design ever). A handful of others are mentioned but only ever seen as debris in the Wolf 359 ship graveyard, like the New Orleans-class, so they must have been equally (if not more) rare. The impression it leaves me with was that the Federation felt secure enough in their position that they were happy to leave the bulk of their defence duties to a collection of eight decade old relics while only adding a modest number of modern designs every once in a while.
Is the Nebula not supposed to be an interim class as well? I know we don't see it until well into the run of TNG but the look of the one Data took over in Redemption made it feel like an older ship to me.

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It wasn't until the Borg and Dominion became real threats that the Federation actually seemed to put much effort into modernizing their fleet, although to be fair once it became a priority they really put themselves into it. We saw a bunch of new classes of starship make their debut within a couple years. The Defiant and Intrepid classes were both brand-new with they showed up in DS9 and Voyager respectively, and First Contact debuted the Sovereign, Akira, Steamrunner and Saber classes. By the time the Dominion War kicked off, all six classes were a common sight on the battlefield (though the show was understandably reluctant to have too many copies of "hero" ships popping up unless they were plot-relevant), so they must have built hundreds of new starships in a matter of years.
It's especially impressive considering it took years to build the Enterprise D, Starfleet must have been really slacking.

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Actually, the most telling thing is that, in the midst of/right after those wars with the Cardassians, Tzenkethi and Sheliac, the only aliens that the Federation seemed to actually be worried about were the Ferengi. Who they hadn't even met yet, and who were exactly no threat at all. It certainly gives me the impression that they could have easily rolled over the races that were bothering them, even with their geriatric fleet, if they'd actually had any interest in conquest.
Of course, by the time those other races started showing up the Ferengi backstory was well on the way to being retconned so they'd been around and known for years (I think there's even a Voyager episode with a line about them visiting Wall Street before the end of capitalism).

There's actually a fairly persuasive theory that the timeline doesn't go back quite the same at the end of Yesterday's Enterprise (it works that originally the Romulan's involvement wasn't know, but whatever the C did upon its return meant this was exposed), which fans used to use to explain things like how the 50 year silence of the Romulans just sort of got forgotten. Maybe that affected things like the Ferengi and the smaller wars as well?


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I was actually surprised on rewatch that they'd only done the Holmes thing twice, because it made such a huge impression on me. Spiner and Burton both did a great job at it.
They got into legal trouble with the Doyle estate and it took four years to sort it out and get permission to use the characters again.

Data really is a crap Sherlock Holmes fan though, he clearly has only read as far as The Final Problem from the way he thinks Moriarty killed Holmes!


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Not Sirtis and McFadden, since they apparently refused to wear the DS9 outfits at all since they were unflattering (funny, since Terry Ferrell looked great in hers...).
Interesting, I'd always thought that was a producer choice to keep them in the tighter one-piece uniform throughout.

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The fact that Riker's uniform jacket sleeves only come down to his elbows is downright hilarious, but I can't for the life of me figure out why the producers thought that was a good look. I mean, shit, couldn't you just keep him in the TNG outfit the whole time? What gets me, though, is that they didn't have at least one uniform in their inventory that fit him. I mean, they've got to have a ton on-hand in different sizes for the extras to wear, right? And they didn't have a single one in Extra Large?
It might be that was the closest "Hero" uniform they had, the extras costumes are often less detailed/well made (though it'd be hard to do that with DS9 jumpsuit). If only they hadn't wasted money making a load of new uniforms they never used.

The uniform thing in Generations is really odd. Defenders say that Star Fleet has two uniform types and wearing both on the same ship makes sense and is more like real navies. Which is fine, but completely at odds with the rest of Trek where everyone on the same ship wears the same uniform at all times.

it actually looks like they're in the middle of changing over to the new regular uniform (something backed up by Voayger using it. Was DS9 trying out the look before it was rolled out fleetwide? Mind, DS9 continued to use the TNG outfits for "Not We" officers) and everyone doesn't quite manage to start wearing it on the same day.

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Speaking of Geordi, was there ever any reason given for the move from the Visor to "artificial eye" contacts? Was it because of the trouble they had filming the thing for the big screen in Generations, or did Burton just finally get sick of wearing it after eight years?
Burton had been working to get rid of the visor since at least season 2 (there's a couple of scenes with Pulaski establishing they could do it just in case the producers decided to agree), he hated not being able to use his eyes. Though you can see his normal pupils through it in at least one scene in Generations, so that may have factored into as well.

In fiction, the general assumption is the Klingons managing to put a bug on it leading to the destruction of the ship was the last straw after things like The Mind's Eye and Star Fleet told him to bloody well upgrade or get out.

The fact he could always be rendered helpless with a good slap to the face was always a bit of a design flaw anyway, especially with the number of intruders who made it to engineering and would start throwing him about.

I always though it was odd that, with the full range of special sight the visor gave him, the thing didn't have a setting for "Normal" sight as well. Even something as simple as a 1980's TV picture would probably be more useful than seeing the entire spectrum all the time.

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I was also sort of confused with how he grew normal eyes in Insurrection, only to be back to the machine ones again in Nemesis. I'm not entirely sure why or how they would have "un-healed" themselves. Or, for that matter, why they couldn't have just cloned him working eyes in the first place. Or a new heart for Picard.
Did Geordi not have his normal eyes still in Nemesis? It says a lot about his role that I've never noticed they went back to the implants...
 
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