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Old 2015-10-27, 08:42 PM   #57
Warcry
Likes Beast Wars toys. A lot.
 
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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Originally Posted by Tetsuro View Post
I know this should probably go to the toy forum, but why the hell hasn't there been a Voyager toy with pivoting nacelles since the Playmates one? You'd think Diamond Select or even Hot Wheels had tackled that one.
There's a notable lack of good Star Trek ship toys out there in general, right now. Which is a shame because I'd love to grab a few. The stickers have all peeled off of my explodey Generations Enterprise-D and I don't think the electronics work anymore either. I've also lost most of my old model kits to the ravages of time and yellowing.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
TNG: Yesterday's Enterprise. Probably the best "Dark alternate timeline" story ever done, mainly because it's not about eye-patches and leather costumes but the actual impact on the regulars (Jonathan Frakes in particular is very good as a more argumentative and less trusting in his captain Riker). Plus lots of good world building, some great action and an episode that's a better movie than half the movies.
Although I love that episode to bits, I can't bring myself to say it's my favourite because there are so many little places where it could have been better. The darker take on the main cast was interesting, as was the starker wartime Enterprise (though I find it hard to believe that the Galaxy-class would have even gotten drawn up in a Federation that had been at the edge of war for decades). I even enjoy seeing Yar again, and in spite of the flak that the actress gets I think she does great here. I just don't think a single episode is enough space for the concept to breathe properly. Your "movie" analogy is great because I think this story would have been fantastic if it had had the extra 40 minutes or so to go more in depth and show how different the crew's lives were from the versions that we knew. We got to see a lot of Picard, Riker and Yar, but how different are Data, Geordi, Beverly and Wesley in this timeline? Where are Troi and Worf (it really was a shame that he wasn't in command of the Klingon ships that attacked at the end of the episode)?

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
DS9: It'd probably be unfair to say Trials as that's not a "Proper" DS9 episode really is it?
Not really, though it was amazing and I love every second of it.

I wonder if the green-screening they did holds up in HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
It being written by a lawyer helps as well, I'm sure it likely doesn't stand up to genuine scrutiny (it ignores the obvious defence for Data--that Star Fleet accepted his sentience when they let him into the academy. Unless they're in the habit of giving positions to rocks. This was of course before Harry Kim would have signed up--for the drama)
Well, the Horta did join the Federation eventually, so I suppose they would have to allow rocks in. Though I'm not sure how they'd fit one in the uniform...

You're totally right that it should be a non-issue by then, because as soon as Starfleet accepted his application they tacitly accepted his personhood. Not to mention the fact that you'd presumably have to have your paperwork in order just to apply (the show never touches on 24th-century immigration policy but I can't imagine you can join Starfleet unless you're a citizen or an otherwise-legal resident of a Federation holding like Nog was), which means that Data should have tons of civilian paperwork to back up his argument too. Given that he was "born" on a Federation colony, you'd think the question would be pretty clear-cut. Because either he's a Federation citizen or he's a toaster, and even if he hadn't joined Starfleet how the heck could he live two decades without that being settled? As soon as he applied for an ID card or drivers' license the question would have needed to be answered.

But on its own merits the episode is powerful enough that I don't care about the logic or lack thereof in its' backstory.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Compare that to, say, A Matter of Perspective. Where Picard is not only Riker's defendant but also the man who gets to decide if he's extradited or not and it end with them not actually proving Riker didn't commit the murder, just presenting an alternate theory of what happened (which wouldn't be enough under an "Guilty till proven innocent" system).
I love any episode that uses the holodeck for something beyond childish wish-fulfillment, but even seeing it used in a criminal investigation doesn't make up for the silliness of the premise. To be honest I got the feeling that the whole thing was a bit of a show anyway, because there's no way that Picard was going to hand over his first officer and he'd shown in the past how willing he was to break alien laws to protect his crew when push comes to shove.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Plus it's genuinely creepy that, thanks to ever helpful Troi, we know the wife genuinely thinks Riker tried to rape her. Lucky for Billy boy that got swept under the carpet.
That was truly silly. If this was a different story and the defendant wasn't a main cast member that would have been an effective way to confuse the audience, but what they showed was just so absurdly removed from anything we'd ever seen from Riker. I mean, shit, a big part of Violations was build on the idea that he'd never do something like that. If the story had been "Riker tried to seduce a married man's wife a bit too aggressively", I think people would have bought it as a possibility. Because he totally seems the type to try and revenge-bone the wife of someone who's treating him like garbage. But what they actually did was a step too far to be credible.

Rashomon-style stories only work when all of the possible truths on display are equally credible and self-serving, and TNG's attempt fell flat on it's face by making the wife's and assistant's stories so transparently unbelievable while Riker's seemed like a perfectly normal episode of TNG by comparison.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Of course April is canon, he was in the Animated series wasn't he?
If you say so. I've never had the opportunity to watch TAS.

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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
The Galaxy Class seems similarly accident prone, Star Fleet lost at least three in eight years (and the Enterprise was the only one to manage a saucer separation. So much for that "Keep the civilians safe" feature. I hope the Odyssey at least left the kids back on DS9...), plus at least a couple during the war.
I'm pretty sure they made sure to mention that Odyssey off-loaded their civilians before going through the wormhole, yeah.

Actually, I think the Galaxy-class fares even worse than the Constitutions in that every single one of them to have an important on-screen role wound up destroyed. The crews of Galaxy, Venture and Challenger probably prayed every day that their captains would never get introduced to Sisko or Picard. Not a good start for a class whose ships were supposed to last 100 years. And it's even worse if you believe the background info that says that they only ever built six of them before the war started...

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Yeah, apparently they wanted a whole new ship (well, exterior anyway, I assume the bridge would have been a redress) but the need to reuse stock shots made for some serious scaling back of ideas.
The reused CGI shots in the last few episodes of the show really did hurt the attempt to portray it as an epic finale. I guess the budget got axed once they decided it was going to be the end of the line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
Ah, but Archer's Enterprise was an Earth Star Fleet ship, not a Federation Star Fleet ship, so it's not part of the same service and thus not included in the registry thing.

Seriously, that's the reason people trot out for the NX-01 never, ever being mentioned in any of the subsequent shows.
I don't mind the ship not being mentioned, since it was only in service for a few years. I mean, it's not as if they mentioned the Enterprise-B or C outside of the single shows they appeared in. But you'd think Archer himself would have been. Making first contact with dozens of species and becoming president of the Federation should be at least worth a name-drop...

I do think that the fans of the show place a lot more weight on the name "Enterprise" than most people would in-universe. Kirk's ship wasn't treated as anything special at the time, and though he and Spock were definitely famous for their exploits later on, there's nothing on-screen to indicate that there weren't a dozen other, equally-legendary officers from their day. And certainly the ships commanded by Harriman and Garrett didn't seem to be anything special from the snippets we saw. And even the Enterprise-D got more respect for being the "flagship" (whatever that nebulous, inaccurately-applied term even meant) than it did for the name on the hull.

The TNG crew don't seem to have earned the same sort of acclaim as the TOS gang did for their exploits, either. I suppose that's partly due to how much bigger Starfleet is in Picard's day than Kirk's. They built 72,000 ships between Excelsior and Defiant and don't seem to have retired many of them, since we frequently see Excelsior and Miranda-class ships in TNG and DS9 with registries in the 10,000s. We even occasionally see a few below that (I think the Repulse with its' NCC-2544 is the oldest ship we see in TNG).

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Originally Posted by Tetsuro View Post
If that's a diss on the intrepid class, dem's fightin' words mister.
Yeah, I tend to prefer older-style vessels like the Reliant or Excelsior or Enterprise-C, but Voyager was a damned pretty ship. It's easily my favourite of the "modern" designs that debuted in DS9, Voyager and the TNG films.

Even if I've never quite understood what the tilting warp engines were supposed to accomplish.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuro View Post
For some reason I kept recalling the scene in DS9 where the high ranking member of the Bajoran religious order hangs herself in the Promenade happens at the first season finale, so I watched the whole episode wondering when it happens, only for it not to.

...it happened during the Dominion occupation of the station, didn't it?
Yeah, that was during the Dominion arc (and one of its more memorable moments).

Speaking of DS9, I've noticed recently that Terry Ferrell gets a lot of flak and I can't quite figure out why. Dax sucked in the first two seasons but I'd put that more on the writers (who seemed to have no idea what to do with her) than the acting. She could be a bit wooden at first but by the time the middle seasons rolled around and the character had grown a personality, I thought she was fine. Not exceptional, but no worse than half the TNG cast.
 
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