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Old 2015-10-27, 09:07 PM   #58
inflatable dalek
Duke of Kidderminster
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Kidderminster UK

Originally Posted by Tetsuro View Post
If that's a diss on the intrepid class, dem's fightin' words mister.
It's more of a dis on toilet seats.

Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
There's a notable lack of good Star Trek ship toys out there in general, right now. Which is a shame because I'd love to grab a few. The stickers have all peeled off of my explodey Generations Enterprise-D and I don't think the electronics work anymore either. I've also lost most of my old model kits to the ravages of time and yellowing.
I keep seeing a nice three pack set of the 1701, refit and B in Forbidden Planet and am so tempted. But even though it says it's a simple kit, I suspect I'll still bugger it up.

Especially considering he's a proper officer in this timeline, Star Fleet is drafting children. That's dark.

Agreed the D really shouldn't look like that, but I suppose that's a conceit you need to make (along with them all serving on the same ship despite the drastically different history) as they were never going to build all new sets and models for just one episode.

Worf (it really was a shame that he wasn't in command of the Klingon ships that attacked at the end of the episode)?
I'm really glad they didn't go down that obvious parallel Universe EVIL regular route myself. Especially considering how... large Dorn played basically the same thing in DS9 (where he's basically playing 50 Shades of Grey with Garak).

I wonder if the green-screening they did holds up in HD.
The upscale on the TOS set looks fine, even if it's not up to the same level as the full TNG remasters.

I do wish they'd edited out the "I'm going to have sex with you later" look Kirk gives Sisko though.

You're totally right that it should be a non-issue by then, because as soon as Starfleet accepted his application they tacitly accepted his personhood. Not to mention the fact that you'd presumably have to have your paperwork in order just to apply (the show never touches on 24th-century immigration policy but I can't imagine you can join Starfleet unless you're a citizen or an otherwise-legal resident of a Federation holding like Nog was), which means that Data should have tons of civilian paperwork to back up his argument too. Given that he was "born" on a Federation colony, you'd think the question would be pretty clear-cut. Because either he's a Federation citizen or he's a toaster, and even if he hadn't joined Starfleet how the heck could he live two decades without that being settled? As soon as he applied for an ID card or drivers' license the question would have needed to be answered.
Plus, even if he is property, how do Star Fleet own him? Finders keepers? Is there no Soong estate that would have a better claim?

Plus, even if Soong was an ahead of his time genius, Data is over twenty years old at this point. Shouldn't a lot of the technology in him be badly antiquated, or at least easily replicatable, by now? Even if he's constantly been doing software/hardware updates that suggests contemporary Federation tech should be able to match him.

But as you say, who cares?

I love any episode that uses the holodeck for something beyond childish wish-fulfillment, but even seeing it used in a criminal investigation doesn't make up for the silliness of the premise. To be honest I got the feeling that the whole thing was a bit of a show anyway, because there's no way that Picard was going to hand over his first officer and he'd shown in the past how willing he was to break alien laws to protect his crew when push comes to shove.
I really liked that episode as a kid because the different perspectives thing seemed very novel, but yeah, the execution really doesn't stand up.

Rashomon-style stories only work when all of the possible truths on display are equally credible and self-serving, and TNG's attempt fell flat on it's face by making the wife's and assistant's stories so transparently unbelievable while Riker's seemed like a perfectly normal episode of TNG by comparison.
It can work if it's a broad comedy (The X-Files episode Bad Blood is hilarious with Mulder and Scully's drastically different versions of what happened. Though it still has something sweet to say about the characters and how they interact as well), but the differences being so big is as you say just too silly to work as drama. And Riker's made it this long without having noticed different people remember events differently? He needs Troi to explain that to him?

He's probably been too busy with the raping thing to pay attention to human behaviour.

Actually, I think the Galaxy-class fares even worse than the Constitutions in that every single one of them to have an important on-screen role wound up destroyed. The crews of Galaxy, Venture and Challenger probably prayed every day that their captains would never get introduced to Sisko or Picard. Not a good start for a class whose ships were supposed to last 100 years. And it's even worse if you believe the background info that says that they only ever built six of them before the war started...
It is a slightly lazy "This shit just got real" plot device isn't it? Especially in The Jem Hadar where they even cast a Picard looking actor as the captain.

At least when they did it in the original series it was because they didn't have the budget for new ships (I love how all their registry numbers are 1701 mucked about with on the AMT kit).

I don't mind the ship not being mentioned, since it was only in service for a few years. I mean, it's not as if they mentioned the Enterprise-B or C outside of the single shows they appeared in. But you'd think Archer himself would have been. Making first contact with dozens of species and becoming president of the Federation should be at least worth a name-drop...
Well, they did retcon it so a planet called Archer from TNG was named after him.

As for the B and C, they were models in the observation lounge for five years, "No bloody A, B, C or D", "This is the fifth vessel to hold the name..." and so on. Archer must have done something awful at some point (the NX-O1 is in service for ten years as well and actually manages to retire in tact. That's more than most of the others).

I was always surprised when they did the Directors Cut of the first film they didn't CGI Archer's ship in place of that other spaceship in the rec deck.

I do think that the fans of the show place a lot more weight on the name "Enterprise" than most people would in-universe. Kirk's ship wasn't treated as anything special at the time, and though he and Spock were definitely famous for their exploits later on, there's nothing on-screen to indicate that there weren't a dozen other, equally-legendary officers from their day. And certainly the ships commanded by Harriman and Garrett didn't seem to be anything special from the snippets we saw. And even the Enterprise-D got more respect for being the "flagship" (whatever that nebulous, inaccurately-applied term even meant) than it did for the name on the hull.
I always quite liked how Riker doesn't quite remember the plot of The Naked Time, it's something he read in school once and stuck in his mind as a silly image but it's not more than that. Which is of course how most of Kirk's day to day stuff would be remembered (I assume the fact he discovered time travel the same day is still a closely guarded secret as Kirk was the only person we ever saw employ that way of doing it despite it being really easy), who knows everything Nelson ever did?

The TNG crew don't seem to have earned the same sort of acclaim as the TOS gang did for their exploits, either. I suppose that's partly due to how much bigger Starfleet is in Picard's day than Kirk's. They built 72,000 ships between Excelsior and Defiant and don't seem to have retired many of them, since we frequently see Excelsior and Miranda-class ships in TNG and DS9 with registries in the 10,000s. We even occasionally see a few below that (I think the Repulse with its' NCC-2544 is the oldest ship we see in TNG).
We never really got a historical perspective on the D though. Riker seemed to become well known amongst other officers after BOBW, indeed he'd stand a chance of becoming better known to the public than Picard (as a hero anyway, I'm sure the Locutus thing made the news) as that's a high profile public rescuing of the entire planet.

Speaking of DS9, I've noticed recently that Terry Ferrell gets a lot of flak and I can't quite figure out why. Dax sucked in the first two seasons but I'd put that more on the writers (who seemed to have no idea what to do with her) than the acting. She could be a bit wooden at first but by the time the middle seasons rolled around and the character had grown a personality, I thought she was fine. Not exceptional, but no worse than half the TNG cast.
I liked Dax once they ditched her original "Aloof intellectual" characterisation and made her a life loving adventurer, which Ferell is obviously much more comfortable playing.

Actually, I like both Dax's (despite Ezri being portrayed as a potential date for most of the cast rather than a character in her own right half the time), a nice variation on the Time Lord idea (I'm sure it's not coincidence that one of Dax's past hosts was a Leela and Ezri's original surname was pronounced "Tegan").

Last edited by inflatable dalek; 2015-10-27 at 10:57 PM.
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