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Old 2016-07-30, 09:17 AM   #57
inflatable dalek
Duke of Kidderminster
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Kidderminster UK

Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
The guilt weapon is something that I honestly didn't even remember on first reading, and a reminder there definitely would have made the first few pages more coherent to me -- I'd still wonder about the wisdom of using it when Deathsaurus's characterization was leading there anyway, but it wouldn't have led me to stop reading the story, roll my eyes and say "oh **** off!"
It's worth noting it created an epiphany for Megatron back in issue 50 as well, adding to the nice symetrical feeling of things (and like Deathsaurus, Megs would probably have been swayed towards realising what he'd done to organics given more time, this punched through the denial they were feeling in one go).

Also, does the issue even allude to the fact that Terminus and Roller (and Glitch!) are people that we've already met? I don't recall but I'm leaning towards 'no'. Though I suspect that if the comic had an extra two pages to work with, like it used to, we'd probably have seen some dialogue making it more clear just how important they were to some of the people in that room.
As said I'd agree Roller and Terminus would confusing to new readers as the reminder of them was very sublte with their names on the list, though I don't think knowing who Glitch was is actually remotely important, the key thing is he's not Roller and really was (as far as we're concerned) just Tarn.

The stuff with the time case is more problematic, because there really isn't anything to cite or point back to -- we last saw it when Ravage gave it to Megatron fifteen issues ago and everything that has been revealed to have happened since really feels like a deus ex machina.
But again, I think if you don't remember that story/hadn't read it "We had a time machine that we thought we'd destroyed" is pretty self explanatory as well.

Actually it's interesting you bring up DS9, because I was thinking about it in the context of this conversation after I made my last post.
Let's turn it into a Trek thread, old shool style!

Deep Space Nine is my favourite Trek series, you know that, and I'll fight anyone who badmouths it. But it's also the least popular of it's generation by far, and only the flop that was Enterprise saves it from being the redheaded stepchild of the franchise. And stuff like this is a big part of why its popularity has never matched its' quality. It was a very, very well-written show, but it also made some stumbles that made it really difficult for a lot of traditional Trekkies to embrace it. The serialized nature wasn't familiar then, people weren't used to needing to watch certain episodes to know what was going on, and sometimes the show wasn't the greatest at keeping part-time watchers in the loop. And the last half of the last season was practically LOST-tier, but since they knew the show was ending I'm assuming they made an active choice at that point to no longer even pretend to give a damn about such things (and yes, "More Than Meets The Eye" is ending, but the story is continuing under a different banner so that's not the same thing).
I'm surprised anyone would consider it less successful than Voyager tbh, it never hit the iconic heights of TOS or TNG (and I think people downplay how iconic that show was, as someone on another forum I post at recently mused Picard has more internet memes by himself than almost any other contemporary US TV character), but it certainly got more viewers than VOY-a result of how they were broadcast differently of course but still means it was more widespread--and was always more critically acclaimed, especially once it hit that post Worf stride.

And I think that was largely because unlike Voyager, DS9 felt like it was made by people who were aware of klate 90's TV and was moving with the times with shows like X-Files and Babylon 5 (especially of course) and the move towards storyarcs and more serialisation that was so popular at the time and has only gotten more so since.

The best description of Voyager I've ever read was it was the least succesful successful show ever made, running for seven years as the top rated show on its network but even the people who made it think it was a bit shit. I actually think Enterprise has more respect these days, helped by the current films (and especially the most recent) being packed full of references and homages.

And whilst a lot of Trek fans weren't embracing of DS9 (famously it's the Trek show for people who don't like Trek) that's as much to do with things like no space ship like wot proper Star Trek has as the actual quality.

And you know, I actually really like that scene because of what it says about Sisko. As he takes the ship into the wormhole you think he's a desperate man intent on a suicidal last stand, but as things move along you realize that he knows exactly what he's doing and this was the plan (or at least Plan B) the whole time and the dude is basically Space Batman. But a line or two earlier on in the episode definitely could have changed the initial reaction from a "Huh?" to an "Of course! How come I didn't see that coming?" as all the pieces drop into place.
I think my only issue is it's a happy coincidence the Prophets decide to stop for a chat, I think it'd be much better if Sisko had always had a Plan B if the minefield failed, actually planning to go tell God he's a dick who needs to do more is a very Ben thing to do. It's actually quite a bold move considering the outside pressures to downplay/remove the "Dull" Bajoran religion stuff. Instead after a couple of years of "Look, a ship! Worf! Klingons! Space battles!" they go and make the final two years of the show based around the thing they'd been ordered to downplay.

In terms of the show ending though, don't forget the 24th century Trek was continuing in both Voyager and the TNG films (no one knew when season 7 was finishing Insurrection would lead to a big gap and a rethink), with some serious thought given to bringing Voyager home now the Alpah Quadrant was freed up. The show was ending but the overall Universe was carrying on... just as with MTMTE.

Also, given that you pointed him to my post as an example of people being WRONG about stuff...
Aww, now I feel bad. It was only because your post and my my responses to it covered everything I wanted to say generally though (much easier than 50 000 tweets) rather than because you're a WRONG man.

SPOILER! (select to read)
No one tell Warcry every time he posts I tweet a link and go "Look at the WRONG man!"

I think another thing to remember is that where MTMTE has found its audience and its success has been digitally rather than through the physical copies (which-last time I checked-have remained the same level with RID and basically every main comic since Schmidt, you could argue that audience is captive), which does change what you can get away with in terms of audience expectations. Someone coming to the comic this week off the back of someone else's recommendations just isn't going to start with issue 55 as it's promoted as part 6 of a six part story, the fact all the digital issues are out there to buy still means they can jump on with issue 50 and--if they like that--work forward. There's a good chance they'll even start all the way back with issue 1.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be room out there for the more traditional "Any issue can be your first" generally stand alone comics, any more than there's nothing wrong with TV shows that do standalone episodes (Voyager's big issue was that it tried to do that with a format that actually required more serialisation than even DS9 did and the stories they wanted to tell and the show they were telling them in never meshed), the shifts in how media works now just means there's the option for more variety in how you tell stories. Which is no bad thing.
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