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Old 2006-06-30, 02:10 PM   #61
inflatable dalek
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
He doesn't colour Infilitration (did a couple of pages in an early issue to help meet a deadline, I think, but isn't main colourist.) He coloured Beast Wars and is now doing Stormbringer. Infiltration has John Rauch, whose efforts have been distinctly variable so far...
Damn you people with facts. Facts will be the end of us all...
 
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Old 2006-06-30, 06:00 PM   #62
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hehe, yeah

i colored maybe 10 pages of Infiltration and a batch of covers but thats it

other than that, ive seen as much as you have [well, i did actually take a peek at the last page of issue 6. xD bwaha. but thats it :P]
 
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Old 2006-07-01, 05:05 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer
You've got Infiltration as a standalone story and Infiltration as part of a longer story arc -- they're both valid ways of assessing the story, although you, I and anyone with any experience of good storytelling would certainly baulk at, say, a story conveyed by letter page and interview should any of those plot points fail to turn up in the story; it's not that characters were said to have survived in DW letters pages, for instance, it's that this wasn't ever explained adequately in the story itself (and quickfire regenerations cheapened the previous story arc.)
.
Sorry Stu, I know you love Infiltration and all, but let's be honest here.

You accused DW before of leaving plot holes in the story that were filled in by the letters page. I admit, that is a flaw.

But I'm going by Josh's post above where he is relating to us things that have either not happened or only fleetingly been hinted at, and made it seem like those things were part of crux of the story. They haven't been.

How you can say that Simon's interviews or letters pages in this instance are any different from what Mick did with Blitzwing and the like in his columns is beyond me.

I think your overzealous fondness of Infiltration may be clouding your judgement. As a poster responded to you on the tfw2005 board, stop defending Infiltration like its a flawless work of art. It isn't.

Instead, accept it for what it is. A good three to four issue story that has been drawn out waaaaaaay to long in the form of a six-issue limited series.
 
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Old 2006-07-01, 05:14 AM   #64
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what i dont get is why everyone refers to it as a mini-series

its just the first arc of an ongoing story




*shrug*

ah well

i'm done with you guys anyway :P
 
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Old 2006-07-01, 05:36 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
made it seem like those things were part of crux of the story.
They have been. Personally I get off on ideas rather than explosions.

Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
How you can say that Simon's interviews or letters pages in this instance are any different from what Mick did with Blitzwing and the like in his columns is beyond me.
Because Furman has a fresh start and opportunity to put those things into his story. McDonough had well over a year of issues in which to tie things together in his continuity and didn't do so.

Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
As a poster responded to you on the tfw2005 board, stop defending Infiltration like its a flawless work of art.
It's a Transformers comic: it isn't, pretty much by definition. In fact, let's just go copy-paste that reply, eh?
Quote:
Then we're just bouncing mindless opinions neither "side" will change off each other -- but at least a range of opinions are coming across.

My issues with IDW so far:

-- Rauch's colouring is inconsistent, ranging from great to awful.
-- Covers being randomly and misleadingly assigned to issues, such as to a part of the story they don't fit, or featuring characters who appear in the issue doing completely different stuff.
-- One "chapter" broken over issues #1 and #2 of Infiltration. Furman's overwritten every six issue arc he's done in the last few years by about an issue. IMNSHO.
-- Lack of proofreading.
-- I don't see a great deal of point in Evolution (or any crossover/alt-universe), or much logic in the stories selected for Generations reprints. Give us stuff that's hard to find.
-- Beast Wars was character-stuffing and the time-synching doesn't make sense (the Maximals might be displaced, but their base isn't.)

They've all cropped up in discussion, I just don't harp on.
I'll be expecting a change of style and pace for Escalation. I think Infiltration is appropriate for a first story arc. I plan on keeping the issues, which I can't really say about Beast Wars.

Furman has the opportunity to really **** up by March next year, but at present he's doing well for making me want to find out what happens next, and the last time that happened with a TF comic was when scans of G2 #7-12 were hard to come by, several years before the Titan reprints. (IIRC, it was Roger Moe / Prowl who came through with them.)

There's also a lot of interest riding on the one-shots, which run the risk of being rehash (especially Shockwave) and will demonstrate if the knack for self-contained fiction is still with him.
 
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Old 2006-07-01, 06:48 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer

I'll be expecting a change of style and pace for Escalation. I think Infiltration is appropriate for a first story arc. I plan on keeping the issues, which I can't really say about Beast Wars.
I plan on keeping them to. Why? Because overall its pretty good. Its a decent read, and will especially be good once in TPB form.

And I to think that storywise, it has been superior to Beast Wars, which had some good moments, but otherwise was mediocre at best.

But I recognize the flaws in its pacing for what it is.



Quote:
ah well

i'm done with you guys anyway :P
It's nothing personal, Josh.

I just disagree with the somewhat misleading nature of your synopsis above. You readily admit that you garnered much of that from the letters pages and interviews, which is exactly my point.

So in actuality, we are in agreement.
 
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Old 2006-07-01, 07:35 PM   #67
inflatable dalek
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Quote:
Originally posted by DCJosh
what i dont get is why everyone refers to it as a mini-series

its just the first arc of an ongoing story

Well, having a big gap before issue 7 and another mini inbetween creates the impression of a standalone mini whatever the intent.
 
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Old 2006-07-01, 07:49 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
Well, having a big gap before issue 7 and another mini inbetween creates the impression of a standalone mini whatever the intent.
Exactly. It's like watching a season of Lost, and then defending it simply on the grounds there's intended to be more in the future, which may or may not be good. Its' very naming as a seperate story means it can be analysed as such. You can analyse UK #199-205 as individual issues, or as Time Wars. The argument for discussing Infiltration as its' own story will surely be confirmed when its' issued as a TPB - I'd bet my left nut they won't wait for Escalation and do a 12-issue TPB. Regardless of its' existance as the first part of a bigger story, it must still function in the format it's been given - so that's as a story in itself, and even as individual issues, and that's what people are debating. To be frank, we're still not guaranteed the full story will actually be told - there's nothing to say Furman's masterplan won't be as half-formed as McDonough's, should the axe fall.
 
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Old 2006-07-01, 10:05 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
garnered much of that from the letters pages and interviews
As mentioned before, the only parts from solicitations are the big-hitters turning up on Earth, and further confirmation that other teams are currently active elsewhere in the universe.

Quote:
Small little squads? Really! I didn't realize that. War isn't just confined to Earth? We learned that?! Where!?
#2, Ratchet: "Two whole megacycles of intricate sub-radar cut and thrust"

#2, Starscream: "Having broken protocol" [the 'Cons have an established itinerary for this]

#2, Ratchet: "An image redolent of bitter failure and nightmarish consequences, of bodycounts and worlds aflame."

#2, Prowl: "violations of section six, eleven, fifteen and twenty-two of the Autobot code of interplanetary conflict."

#3, Prowl: "you broke protocol ... you know the code violations intimately" [the Autobots also aren't unfamiliar with the infiltration/siege pattern]

#3, Ratchet: "Why are we here, on this planet? We're here to save lives. Now okay, maybe we're talking mass numbers, a global scale of species saved, but me, I take it one life at a time."

#3, Ratchet: "They dig in and then slowly destabilize the geopolitical infrastructure, formenting global anarchy. Siege mode is a protective military configuration, usually adopted during phase five. I've only seen it once before myself" [Ratchet's explaining that his experience is less than that of others, but he's seen the process played out -- and broken protocol before in contacting native species, as confirmed earlier]

#4, Bumblebee: "something that will warrant a whole alert-status upgrade" [the 'Bots are waiting until the conflict is open to reveal themselves to humans; it's only a matter of time before siege mode]

Are you reading or just flipping pages?

Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
gap before issue 7
Aye, it's a damn shame about that.
 
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Old 2006-07-02, 01:29 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denyer

Are you reading or just flipping pages?
The only obvious thing from reading these past five issues is that the Transformers want to be secretive about their existence, and that along that line, the Decepticons are up to no good and the Bot are there to stop them. That's it.

That's what five issues have spelled out clearly.

Regarding your quotes:

Quote:
"Having broken protocol"
Quote:
#2, Prowl: "violations of section six, eleven, fifteen and twenty-two of the Autobot code of interplanetary conflict."
Quote:
#3, Prowl: "you broke protocol ... you know the code violations intimately" [the Autobots also aren't unfamiliar with the infiltration/siege pattern]
If this is what you are saying backs up Josh's synopisis above, you must be quite the detective.

See, in the hospital where I would, we have protocol for if there is a major contamination issue. We have codes of violations and all sorts of procedures that should take place in the event of a terrorist attack.

But guess what? Major contamination and terrorist events have never happened. Still, protocals and procedures are there just in case.

Are you really asking me to believe that a couple of lines by Prowl and Ratchet citing interplanetary protocols are supposed to give me the insight that Josh has had?

Quote:
#2, Ratchet: "An image redolent of bitter failure and nightmarish consequences, of bodycounts and worlds aflame."
This only hints at what we find in the wake of destruction. The Autobots and Decepticons are at war. How does this reveal anything that the past twenty years of the Transformers hasn't?


Quote:
#3, Ratchet: "They dig in and then slowly destabilize the geopolitical infrastructure, formenting global anarchy. Siege mode is a protective military configuration, usually adopted during phase five. I've only seen it once before myself" [Ratchet's explaining that his experience is less than that of others, but he's seen the process played out -- and broken protocol before in contacting native species, as confirmed earlier]
Finally! A quote that hints at what could be going on now, hints at the possibility that what's going on on Earth may be what's going on on countless planets across the galaxy.

So in reality I have one line of dialogue in #3 that more clearly addresses what Josh addressed in his synopsis.

But you know what has been even more clear in spelling things out?

Furmans interviews and letter columns.
 

Last edited by Commander Shockwav; 2006-07-02 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 2006-07-02, 02:01 PM   #71
DCJosh
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i dunno

thats just what i've gathered from reading

of course other people may have different ways of interpreting story/dialogue *shrug*


guess we'll see how things pan out then eh?
 
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Old 2006-07-02, 02:07 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by DCJosh


thats just what i've gathered from reading
Thing is, once you've read something in an interview and/or solicitation, it's very easy to join up the dots. For those of us naive enough to expect the story to be in the comic, things aren't quite so evident from throwaway lines. I'm pretty sure this just isn't me being thick - I mean, I managed to spot most of the mise-en-scene in Watchmen without problems.
 
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Old 2006-07-02, 05:46 PM   #73
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
If this is what you are saying backs up Josh's synopisis above, you must be quite the detective.
This is going to sound harsh, but I think it's just basic intelligence -- those developments aren't based on recent interviews, they've been evident as we went along: http://tfarchive.com/community/showt...threadid=32811

#2 was the turning point for this being a new continuity.

Quote:
Originally posted by Commander Shockwav
But you know what has been even more clear in spelling things out?

Furmans interviews
And? He's pitching further story arcs -- hard to introduce those without summarising and giving some vague description of where they're going. He could not give interviews and what we'd be missing would be a name for the M corporation (the Machination), plus titles for the following two story arcs (Escalation and Devastation)... that and noting Furman seems to have a bit of a fetish for the "-ation" suffix.

Further to this, anyone who wanted spoilers and read solicitations would have confirmed Megatron was turning up. (As earlier indicated in #3 -- "If the Decepticons have engaged Siege Mode, whatever's happening is happening now! And whether they've gone rogue or are acting under orders, it means the same thing... Megatron!" [The 'Bots are expecting this; they've seen it before.])

People'd also be able to predict Prime's probably going to show ("Could be that itís time for Prowl and Co. to roll out the big guns?" + the cast list shadows) -- although this could be misdirection, just as it's unlikely we'll get Megs reformatted with an Earth mode in this arc. We could see Prime on a viewscreen instructing a more heavily-armed strike force for Earth.
 
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Old 2006-07-03, 12:00 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cliffjumper
Thing is, once you've read something in an interview and/or solicitation, it's very easy to join up the dots. For those of us naive enough to expect the story to be in the comic, things aren't quite so evident from throwaway lines. I'm pretty sure this just isn't me being thick - I mean, I managed to spot most of the mise-en-scene in Watchmen without problems.
To be honest, I'm rather surprised to hear that from you. I'm used to the fact that many people who read Transformers comics aren't used reading comics and in many cases don't understand how to read a comic.

Like Denyer, for me those were quite clear and I haven't been reading interviews before I've received my current issue (I get it 2-4 weeks after it's released).
 
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