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Old 2007-10-16, 09:42 AM   #301
inflatable dalek
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
It very well may be, and probably is. I don't know. I've never been to Japan nor kept up with their versions that much.
I've never been to Japan either. Piece of piss finding out though and it's kind of useful to like, check your facts first. Hell, I didn't even have to, Halfshell did the legwork for me.

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No, but they are licened and it matches up with all of hasbro's retcons. They are also newer sources. That too makes a big deal.
Lots of stuff in both don't match up with IDW's more recent stuff (Headmaster for example). Lots of stuff in both doesn't even match up with Dreamwave's take on it...



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One is produced by a licensee, the other by Hasbro themselves.
One was written by the closest thing we have to a main TF writer. The other was written by a tea boy on his break.



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The Ultimate Guide is Uncooborated bollocks? I think not. It is a canon source and is cooborated by everything previousoly in existance including Marvel, the cartoon, BW-BM, 3H, Fun Publications, RID, AEC,DW, IDW, et all.
TUG doesn't match up with lots of stuff in the cartoon/comics/DW/IDW ect. We've allready spelt out the whole Marvel UK?Quintesson thing do pay attention.

Quote:

and IO see someone who simply wants all the various continuites to exist in a vacuume regardless of Hasbro's offical postion or what canon sources say.
Then you're as blind as the arse you're talking out of.
 
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Old 2007-10-16, 09:56 AM   #302
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And all I see is somebody whose approach to evidence is "if I've not seen it myself, it doesn't count."

I've never seen The Sopranos, but I'm fairly sure it doesn't entitle me to pass comment about what does or doesn't happen in it.

Fair play for just blindly ignoring valid points, though. It's that kind of arrogance that causes you to lose all credibility in the eyes of impartial observers.

You'll note the conspicuous absence of people wading in to agree with / defend you. Some people might take the time to wonder why that is. Though you're doubtless ignoring that, too.

I'm done with this thread.
 


Last edited by Halfshell; 2007-10-16 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 2007-10-16, 09:56 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally posted by inflatable dalek
I've never been to Japan either. Piece of piss finding out though and it's kind of useful to like, check your facts first. Hell, I didn't even have to, Halfshell did the legwork for me.
Which is all well and good.


Quote:
Lots of stuff in both don't match up with IDW's more recent stuff (Headmaster for example). Lots of stuff in both doesn't even match up with Dreamwave's take on it...
If you are talking about current events specific to that continuity, so what. What is the common element which binds the continuities together is Primus and Unicron, not how the headmasters came to be, Not the speciofic events currently happening, not the specific versions of the characters. Those vary from continuity to continuity. The retcons only deal with the origins of the Transformers race, and the place Primus and Unicron have in the multiverse. That is all. Now, yes, IDW may set itself up as a completely isolated continuity. That has not been decided yet. However, that has no effect on current and already established canon, which binds all continuities togther currently, and that is that Primus and Unicron exist in all realites, one existing in them all at the same time, the other travelling between them.





Quote:
One was written by the closest thing we have to a main TF writer. The other was written by a tea boy on his break.
No, the other was written by someone whose job it was to work on that section. For all we know it could have been Aaron Archer himself who wrote it.





Quote:
TUG doesn't match up with lots of stuff in the cartoon/comics/DW/IDW ect. We've allready spelt out the whole Marvel UK?Quintesson thing do pay attention.
TUG includes retcons which were added to cartoon continuity as well as all other continuities, regarding Primus and Unicron, and the Quintessons, in regards to the origins of Cybertron and the Transformers as a race. Do you honestly belive that Hasbro and the writers cannot make any changes they deem fit to make, any retcons they deem fit to make? The Ultimate Guide includes previously establsihed retcons that have been in place since at least 2001 and before; reinterpretations of events and their place in not only cartoon continuity, but also comic book continuity as well as later series. IT deals with over twenty years of material including all of the retcons.



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Then you're as blind as the arse you're talking out of.
That doesn't even deserve a response.
 

Last edited by Tramp; 2007-10-16 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 2007-10-16, 10:11 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally posted by Halfshell
And all I see is somebody whose approach to evidence is "if I've not seen it myself, it doesn't count."

I've never seen The Sopranos, but I'm fairly sure it doesn't entitle me to pass comment about what does or doesn't happen in it.

Fair points for just blindly ignoring valid points, though. It's that kind of arrogance that causes you to lose all credibility in the eyes of impartial observers.

You'll note the conspicuous absence of people wading in to agree with / defend you. Some people might take the time to wonder why that is. Though you're doubtless ignoring that, too.
That is not true. I have used Japanese information in debates. information that I have only researched second-hand because I don't have access to the orignals. The information I know about Wreckers is mostly second-hand. I hacve only read issue 1 so far because I am not a member of the offical fan club. and have never been to Botcon. I can't afford either. I read issue 1 on the web site. #3 is not up yet. Secondly whether people agree makes no difference. What makes a difference is what is actually officially sanctioned, what is actual canon. Being in the majority does not make you right. Popular opinion does not make truth. It does not make fact. In the 16th Century the majoritiy of people believed the world was flat. Did that make it true? No. They believed that the Earth was the center of the universe. Did that make it true? No. In the early 20th Century, the majority of scientists believed that the "missing Link" between man and ape would show a large brain. They believed that the it was the brain that evolved first, and discounted any evidence that showed otherwise. Did that make them right? No. Evidence proved them all wrong. Canon shows you to be wrong. Canon says that Primus is the same being in all realities. Canoin says that Primus created the Transformers in all realities. Canon reconciled that origin with the Quintesson origin for the cartoon continuity in Wreckers #3 and it is discussed further in the Ultimnate Guide, a canon source. The exact details of how that story does so, I don't know. I just know it does reconcile the two origin stories into one. Canon says that the Quitnessons had some involvement in the Transformers early development, but what exactly that involvement was is a matter of conjecture. The exact details are unknown and may vary from reality to reality. This is all canon; and it all contradicts your belief that all TF realities are isolated from one aother and your belief that each relaity has their owen Primus and its own Unicron, or if they even exist. Canon says they do exist in all of them and that they are singular beings in the multiverse. That is what canon says.
 
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Old 2007-10-16, 12:01 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp
They aren't completely independent, and Transformers The Ultimate Guide, Universe, and other materials are viable sources which support it. Sources you choose to ignore because they don't agree with your view.
Yeah, so do I, and you can do absolutely nothing about it. I can ignore whatever I damn wish. And furthermore, I can ignore you and your ramblings which have nothing to do with me, the things I like and the things I would be willing to discuss. And if threads that I am interest in reading or participating in will still keep having huge chunks of nonsense about MTMTE, Botcon comics and TUG inserted between the posts that are actually worthwhile to read, I'm pretty sure the ignore list can take care of that.
 

-Okay, the bomb's dropped. Life goes on. No amount of sulking or worrying changes that. We've got our own lives to live. In that regard, in five minutes time, I am using the autopilot on the Midnight Runner and taking it down the pub. If I go on my own, I go on my own.
-Well. Wait up, you horrible English git. While I'm around, you don't have to go anywhere on your own.
And, one by one, the others follow.
And, one by one, they begin to smile.

Last edited by Ozz; 2007-10-16 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 2007-10-16, 12:04 PM   #306
Halfshell
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I dare say this thread would be entirely coherent even after that measure...
 
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Old 2007-10-16, 03:16 PM   #307
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Can we retcon Tramp and this thread out of the TFA continuity?
 

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Old 2007-10-16, 05:13 PM   #308
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Well, after 306 posts, I think it's fair to say I was right all along -- Star Trek is rubbish.
 

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Old 2007-10-16, 06:09 PM   #309
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Personally, I'm part of that teensy, disenfranchised group who believes that "the artist is dead", but I think that was a point already made, what, 200-odd posts earlier.

That's my tangent for the day
 
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Old 2007-10-16, 06:10 PM   #310
inflatable dalek
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tramp

That doesn't even deserve a response.
Niether does half the crap you've come out with. Lets recap here- You're reason for not taking the Japanese timeline seriously is Exactly the same [using your trick with the bold there to get it accross] as our reason for not taking the Ultimate Guide seriously. That is a double standard so huge you're either an idiot, a troll or an idiot troll.

And well done with comparing yourself to people who often suffered greatly for going against conventional wisdom. You're less like those who challenged the flat Earth idea though and more akin to ones who still believe it now.
 
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Old 2007-10-16, 06:13 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ackula
Can we retcon Tramp and this thread out of the TFA continuity?
Who's this Tramp I hear about? Does she except 20s?
 


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Old 2007-10-16, 06:57 PM   #312
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