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Old 2002-04-06, 12:51 AM   #1
Cliffjumper
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Lightbulb 'Marvel Time'

What're any Marvel fans' opinion on this idea, put forward in Johnny Byrne's X-Men: The Hidden Years and Marvel: The Lost Generation? It basically states that most Marvel Universe stuff happened from the early 1980s onwards... I personally think it's a pretty stupid idea. While it counters the idea of the characters never really ageing, I personally think that realistic ageing is something not really necessary in comics, and something most readers don't care for... I also think that this is quite simply too much of a ret-con. Byrne's got a habit of doing this sort of thing [e.g. the Vision/Human Torch angle, or the re-arranging of Iron Man's origin] but I think this is a bit too much. There are too many things in the comics to place the stories in the then-present day, from the subtle [such as fashions - Dark Phoenix clearly takes place in the disco years, etc.] or more blatant markers such as dates [for example, Jean Grey's gravestone stating she died in 1980 in that one after Dark Phoenix]... I also think the idea of all this stuff like Inferno, Onslaught, Zero Tolerance, the Magneto War, E is for Extinction, the T-Bolts' Masters of Evil scam, the Siege Perilous, etc, etc happening over about 10 years or so is frankly ridiculous... What do you lot think?
 
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Old 2002-04-06, 09:45 AM   #2
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Marvel Time bugs the hell out of me, to be perfectly honest.

I can cope with them stretching out the whole notion of "time" to explain why the original class are still in their twenties (at least I think it's twenties), but what I can't stand is the pop culture references (there were a handful of Costello references in early X-Factor, or thereabouts, and one of the characters in Poptopia talked about "This Life") - that's where it falls down for me, because it loses all sense of scale.
Same applies to Jean's recent comments about "is this how we welcome in the 21st century" or the like...

If they could just let the story develop, in its own sense of time, without chucking in references that will date the story, I'd be much happier.
 
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Old 2002-04-06, 10:34 AM   #3
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Actually, the characters have aged some, but I think it's only like, two or three years since X-men #1, so it doesn't matter.

I agree with Brend, Marvel should avoid dating things with reality; they're sure to screw it up.
 
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Old 2002-04-06, 02:10 PM   #4
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Believe me, if you read Hidden Years, some of the pop culture references are really annoying. Byrne goes out of his way to place the story in the early/mid 80s, rather than subtly suggesting so...

As for the original team aging, I'd give them all about 10 years... Bobby's clear mid-20s to me, whereas in (Uncanny) X-Men #1 he's named as sixteen... Scotty, Jean, Archangel and Hank all seem to be late 20s me [well, as far as I can tell from Hank, anyway!]... Basically, I found Marvel time just draws attention to something which a good story will make you not care about... It's like when something like Star Trek draws your attention to the language problem [with universal translators] and you kinda think 'hmm, never noticed that before. what a stupid idea' when it would have been better to ignore it and just ride with it.
 
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Old 2002-04-06, 04:00 PM   #5
Denyer
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Wink I just love that...

...Wolverine and Captain America flashback story set in the 1950s, with the Black Widow as a girl. What's her secret, anyway?
 
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Old 2002-04-07, 04:10 PM   #6
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Screw her age, I want to know how she's changed from being a sultry Russian to not far off a cheer-leader American heroine... and where she actually was in the whole Onslaught Marvel Universe shebang. Leading from a distance Tash?

Quite a few MU characters have got excuses for not aging, though... Cap & Wolvie are two, plus Thor, Wonderman [I still hate the name sooo much], anyone cosmic, the thing's not exactly gonna get wrinkles, etc... But to be honest, I don't think age and time are something which should be touched on, except maybe in a tounge-in-cheek way [I haven't actually read the Cap/Wolvie/Black Widow one - it sounds like an Uncanny issue I saw a while back, and kicked meself for not getting - anyone got an issue #?], but c'mon, if all the X-Men's adventures happened over 15 years, we've got several team decimations, Magneto returning from the dead umpteen times, Kitty changing her code name every six months [and costume every 3]... I mean that lot's a bit much anyway, but condensed???
 
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Old 2002-04-07, 05:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quicksilver
[I haven't actually read the Cap/Wolvie/Black Widow one - it sounds like an Uncanny issue I saw a while back, and kicked meself for not getting - anyone got an issue #?]
UXM #268
 
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Old 2002-04-07, 05:43 PM   #8
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Tis also chronicled in the "Executions: Book One" TPB (published circa 1995...)
 
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Old 2002-04-07, 07:52 PM   #9
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Cheers guys! I'll probably try to find the issue more... I'm at a loss as to why Boxtree are actually allowed to publish anything... For a full display of their ineptness, anyone who has their Legionquest TPB can tell you about the cover gallery...
 
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Old 2002-04-07, 10:36 PM   #10
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brendocon
Tis also chronicled in the "Executions: Book One" TPB (published circa 1995...)
...it's in a UK annual along with a Siena Blaze @ da Arctic/Antarctic (?) thing, too. I can scan it fer ya when I have a little more time.
 

Last edited by Denyer; 2002-04-07 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 2002-04-07, 10:52 PM   #11
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That'd be cool cheers! I think I have the Sienna Blaze one - she shoots down a Blackbird with Scotty, Chuck and Ororo on it, right?
 
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Old 2002-04-07, 10:56 PM   #12
Denyer
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Smile Uh huh...

...with mutterings about every time she invokes her powers, the Earth will split like some kinda fruit (I forget which.)
 
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Old 2002-04-07, 11:19 PM   #13
Cliffjumper
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Apparently, if Tony Stark had given everyone his nice shiny armour, she'd have been an X-Man... Someone explain that one to me a sec...
 
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Old 2002-04-08, 01:37 AM   #14
Denyer
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Smile Um...

...care to elaborate?
 
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Old 2002-04-08, 08:03 AM   #15
Osku
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stuart Denyer
...care to elaborate?
Hes referring to What if... Iron Man sold out? #64. Sienna Blaze is one of the "cannon fodder" X-Men against Magneto. In that reality Stark gave his armour to public use.
Quite nice little piece of work by Furman & Senior.
 
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Old 2002-04-08, 03:31 PM   #16
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Lightbulb

Uh-huh! It's quite wicked, I suppose with so much going on it's to much to ask that those X-Men [off the top of my head, Cyclops, Wolverine, Gambit, Sienna Blaze and Maverick... I'm missing one...] were juch more than cannon fodder...

Denyer, there should be scans on their way tomorrow!
 
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Old 2002-04-08, 10:43 PM   #17
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The biggest problem with marve time has to be Kitty Prydes age. I'm sure in excalibur she catagorially stated to be 18 or so. A few years on shes 17 in X-men. The new mutants suffer from this problem. IN the end of the Nm run in early X-force they are clearly becomming young aduts but (cant rememebr the reference off the top of my head) they become mid teend again. Lets not talk about the way they have tryed to make SPiderman in his 'early-mid' 20's especiallyas the X-mena nd Avengers have susposted to be running 13-15 miminum thus Peter Parker has to be 30 at the least now.

Problem is no one expected these characters to actually be more or less the same or even survive 40 years on.

Dc ghad this problem too. They simply destroyed the Dc universe and said everythign that happened before never actually happened and reconed the characters origins and history etc.
 

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Old 2002-04-08, 11:49 PM   #18
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I really do think it's something which should just simply be ignored. I like Johnny Byrne, his penciling and writing are both excellent, but by drawing attention to this he's just causing sooo much trouble...
 
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Old 2002-04-09, 10:37 AM   #19
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I believe I've read somewhere that 3 years of our time would equal 1 year of their time. That theory is (I've let myself to believe) quite accpeted in the general fandom. It would seem to make some sense.
 


Thanks D!
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Old 2002-04-09, 05:00 PM   #20
Denyer
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Smile *whistles*

Apparently, my mouse hand, of its own volition, deleted some of the posts from this topic. Oops.
 
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