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Old 2002-04-18, 12:41 AM   #21
Denyer
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Quote:
Originally posted by ENERGON
4. Optimus Prime was actually a very old model he was created many millions of ages ago.

the reson that he was a bit stronger then megatron would be that , orion Pax was injured by megatron and was so to say remade to optimus .
meaning optimus was a newer model then megatron .
I bet Micro$oft could sell you anything... possibly even the Throttlebots...

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Comics-wise (UK), Galvatron would have pulped Prime. US? He seems less powerful. Cartoon? Not a chance (mainly because they have this "good over evil" kids' stuff going on...)
 
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Old 2002-04-18, 02:37 AM   #22
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Galvatron couldn't beat Prime and he knew it, that's the reason he tries to blow up Cyberton after Prime's return instead of trying to reconquer it. I'm not sure but I don't recall him trying to do that while Rodimus was around.
 

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Old 2002-04-18, 02:52 AM   #23
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Actually, Vector Sigma gabve him that plan.
 
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Old 2002-04-18, 11:18 AM   #24
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Comic Galvatron could kick Optimus ass... cartoon Galvatron would kick his own ass.
 
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Old 2002-04-18, 01:07 PM   #25
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Originally posted by nmathew
I'm going to put my money on Prime. First off, he did beat Megs in the movie. Stupid Hot Rod (grumble)

Prime is a great warrior. Galvatron a great, er, brawler? he doesn't need/use as much skill.
Bah, Optimus should have finish off Megatron and not give away his boring "glory and honor" speeches. Even though Hot Rod got caught by Megatron, Optimus still could have dodge the blast from Megatron.

As for Optimus vs Galvatron in the cartoon, Optimus would win because of the "good guys always beat the bad guys" rule.

In the comics, Galvatron would destroy Optimus.
 


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Old 2002-04-18, 01:10 PM   #26
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Quote:
Origianlly posted by Skylinx:
If you say that Galvatron was stronger/better than Ops, then Rodimus being Galvatron's equal (beating him in the TF:TM and series) would be stronger and better than Op, no way...
We know that's false : In the return of Optimus Prime, Prime beats Rodimus after a long fight. And he is not powered by the quintisson. The quint scientist didn't even have enough time to repair him, how could he improve him....???

Quote:
Originally posted by ENERGON:
if u remember in "dark awakening" he singelhandedly drove galvy and his cons away.
They were frightened seeing Optimus Prime being alive again when Galvy (or Megs, that's the same for me) had already killed him himself...
Count this reason out.

And snake... he didn't face Optimus...
 

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Old 2002-04-18, 01:27 PM   #27
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This is awful, I think that Sixo, Snake and Sixswitch have the closest thing to a decent answer here.

Strength, strength, strength, and whose got the biggest gun! Is that all it comes down to? no way. Its all down to wits, prowess, skill and so on. Strength was only the exemplified way of getting thing's done in the comics and cartoons so that it appealed to us more as little kids, which we were at the time.

There was a brief period (I believe the best period), where people like Megatron and Optimus were concerned about the opinions their troops held them in, because that was the key to winning battles, that's what swayed things. Morale, loyalty etc. With your troops fully behind you, you could do and achieve great things. This was decently shown in the comics where people didn't want to follow Galvatron because he was absolutely nuts. Whose gonna follow a nutball?

In a fight, it would be tough going, not because of the size of Galvatron's gun, but because he's crazy, and how would Prime be able to anticipate anything when he's combating a crazy guy? In contrast if he were fighting Bludgeon, he would merely need to go check the internet for websites on Metallikato, put all the relevant stuff in his brain, then be able to anticipate Bludgeon's possible attack/defence strategies.

What am I going on about now? Oh yeah, they put too much emphasis on how strong an individual was physically, like its gonna make any difference to anyone other than maybe Grimlock. The Decep's followed Megatron because he was cold, calculating, devious, merciless and so on. He used to know how to make his warriors fight for him, with him. Then all that got left behind in the persuit of one robot going 'one-on-one' with another. Please :rolleyes:

Prime and Glvatron would never get in a one on one fight, each faction would have too much to lose if their head honcho died, they (each sides warriors), would do everything in their powers to ensure their leaders were safe in their own numbers, ready to fight and lead them another day. In other words, war. Prime would be valiant, Galvatron would be tough, but they need their guys around them. Neiter would be stupid enough to go one on one with each other.

Why was it, as everything went on, that all power, wisdom etc was pooled into one super duper being on each side? Prime and Megatron/Galvatron. I don't believe that. They were the guys that people followed, they inspired. Just because Prime was the leader doesn't mean he should be the most intelligent, the best fighter, the best basketball player and so on. Now in theory, Prowl was the smartest Autobot, but no-one's gonna follow that monosyllabic bot are they? well maybe a few, but not the crowds that Optimus drew. So put Prowl and Optimus on the same side, you've got yourself a powerful pair, they inspire others to follow them with other top skills and you've got yourself a kick ass army. For all we know Prime could simply have been a mediocre bot who was good at talking spin and conning guys into following him, and it was their skills together that made for great things.

This is what I prefer, not this untouchable super warrior crap. If Thundercracker got annoyed with Galvatron one day and decided "Right that's it, he's nuts, I'm gonna kick his ass", then Thundercracker, although he would get taken down, would still put a fair few knocks and dents into Galvatron, because Thundercracker was tough, he was a warrior too, so could andle himself in a battle. I'm sure most of you are thinking "Thundercracker? Hah! he couldn't even dent Galv". I hate this super being crap. The leaders are a couple of guys that inspire people to follow 'em. If Frenzy were to pick up reasonably sized gun, and got past security, he could assaninate Prime. Why not? its a gun! what, is he impervious to everything except Galvatrons/Megatron's cannon?

I want my leaders vulnerable goddammit, otherwise they should kill all their own troops right now, then get it on together in a ring, one kills the other, then we can all go populate a forum on the 'Powerpuff Girls' or something.

Damn, if only Prime can kill Megs/Galv and vice versa, why am I wasting my time with this sh*t? Coz I don't believe it, that's why.

*Waits for Bumblebee to destroy Galvatron with a photon rifle he borrowed from Jazz*
 



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Old 2002-04-18, 02:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Windcharger
The Decep's followed Megatron because he was cold, calculating, devious, merciless and so on.
Actually, the Decepticons only followed Megatron because of that bigassed cannon on his arm. That's his only attribute. Having the most powerful weapon. He doesn't have an ounce of charisma, he's dangerously belligerent, and is profoundly stupid.


But on the topic of Galvatron versus Optimus, remember, Galvatron blew up an entire planet...and that's after the fall of Unicron, so he wasn't being amped up by the chaos bringer. He's at least as strong and as durable as Megatron, if not more, plus he's got that laser cannon, an alternate mode that's actually formidable in one-on-one, and he's a total loon. Oh, and if he bothers to remember, he can fly, not very fast, but that's still better than Prime, who cannot fly at all (unless he's tricked into thinking that he's still in MTMTE.)
 
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Old 2002-04-18, 02:11 PM   #29
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Right, I'm nuts. Over the course of this weekend, I'm gonna create a huge arm cannon and blow up the moon. Then all the world will bow down to me coz I've got a big gun. It doesn't work like that. Megatron isn't that stupid. He was smart once. There's a billion bots on Cybertron, he created an army that followed him because of what he believed, not because of the size of his gun.

Its just like in 'Fight Club'. Megatron IS Brad Pitt/Edward Norton. His ideals inspired others who felt the same way. I don't think the troops would hang around if he kept waving his arm cannon about in a mad hysterical way. Together, he and his crew overthrew the norm. Bunch of terrorists is what they were.

Someone could always make a bigger arm cannon, so he had to have more than that going for him. He had an idea.
 
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Old 2002-04-18, 02:19 PM   #30
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You still miss the point Snake. Read what Windcharger has written first... :rolleyes:
Second. Megatron is not stupid , (at least not as stupid as you think he is). If he was, then leader would be Starscream. His BFG (BigF******Gun) is not that powerful, I remember Shockwave causing enormus damage and not only him.
And if ever Megatron ever faces you he could still beat you even if you have Galvatron's BmoreFG
 

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Old 2002-04-18, 02:48 PM   #31
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Okay, let's tally it up, Galvatron is stronger, more durable, has an incredibly powerful weapon, can fly, and is completely psychotic...and none of that matters in a fight. Yeah, sure.

And neither Prime nor Galvatron would get in a one-on-one fight. Is that an attribute of Galvatron's? Because your reasoning didn't prevent the Optimus versus Megs fight in the movie.

And your preferences to how leaders should be protrayed has zero effect on this discussion. That's how they are and you can't change that. Megatron was total dumbass and a bully who ruled because of the giant gun on his arm. His troops were either too scared to oppose him, or too stupid to realize how bad he was. Think that's impossible? Then explain why Galvatron's troops didn't overthrow him for his incompetence and vicious, unwarranted abuse? Either they feared him, or they enjoyed being constantly beaten by him and losing all the time.


Oh, and Megatron is just as stupid as I say he is. And anybody who debates that clearly hasn't watched the show. Good example; Ultimate Doom. Megatron puts the smack down on Starscream, because Screamer thinks it's a bad idea to let the autobots go. No, it's a good idea, Megs says, because they'll take care of the autobots at their leisure, as if they'll find the autobots in a more comprimised situation than they already were when Soundwave was blasting them with his waves.

And so at the end of the miniseries, Megatron takes off in his spaceship loaded with Energon, and the rabid pitbull of irony bites him in the ass; the autobots blow up his ship, destroying his energon, and almost killing him. His plan is ruined and he is defeated, all because he's too stupid to kill his enemies when he has the chance.
 

Last edited by The Green Knight; 2002-04-18 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 2002-04-18, 02:54 PM   #32
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To be fair I think some people's views of Megatron come from what they've seen of him in the cartoons, perhaps not the comics, and even then, to get a bit more of a taste for his deviousness you would have had to have read the earlier issues.

Now in the cartoons, Megs comes across as a thug with a big gun. This means the only thing seperating him from a numbskull like... rumble, is that he's got a big arm cannon. I don't buy it, but they made us think that's all it took because the show was aimed at little kids. No such thug could ever be the leader of anything outside of maybe a small group of like minded friends in a playground. Its not leader material.

The best example of Leadership I can fathom from my childhood days is 'Watership Down', wherein Hazel was the leader, Pigwig was the brawn of the outfit, and the others each brought their own qualities. Hazel possessed nothing out of the ordinary other than the ability to inspire others with his quick thinking and cunning, and have them follow him as their leader.

Here was a cartoon that didn't treat its audience like braindead fools, it used big words, foreign concepts and so on, but we still understood it. Its the same with 'Animal Farm', even 'Babe'.

I suppose the only thing Meg's was good for in the cartoons was the fact he could make us think a bit more as to what makes a leader in real life. Apart from that, he was Mr. One Dimensional, as were almost all of the bots. *Sigh*

In the cartoons he's a dumbass, and so is Galvatron. Prime would win because he's the good guy. Invoking the holy power of the matrix, or hubcap, or whatever else it takes to get the job done, and even then Galvatron wouldn't be vanquished, he would come back again in some way because good can't exist without evil blah blah blah, damn cartoon.
 

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Old 2002-04-18, 02:56 PM   #33
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All hail Galvatron! GALVATRON!
 
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Old 2002-04-18, 03:08 PM   #34
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Hey! Don't talk smack on Rumble! Rumble was cool. Rumble was much smarter than Megatron. If Rumble saw an oppotunity to cause an earthquake, he wouldn't say "Naw, let's wait until the autobots get here and can do something to stop me." He'd trash the place.

I always thought they made Megatron a bumbling, annoying bully on purpose, to make him as universally unappealing as possible.
 
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Old 2002-04-18, 03:14 PM   #35
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Only because it wasn't his place to say, and he was scared of big old beligerent bucket head with the big arm cannon. Only the nasty leaders have the license to to be truly stupid. The rest get on and do as they're told unless they're called Starscream, and his contract says specifically to get on Megatron's nerves.

Lets go back on all I've said;

Prime Vs. Galvatron; who would win?

Whoever has the more recent toy on the market.

Quote:
I always thought they made Megatron a bumbling, annoying bully on purpose, to make him as universally unappealing as possible.
True. Remember kids, being a bad guy means you get no friends and no-one likes you. Be like Uncle Prime and his smiley white teeth no soul brigade. Bland? never we're not being obvious for nothing, we hope our latest tale of good against evil has cleared up any questions you have about whether to be nice or nasty. This is your first step on the road to wholesomeness, purity, clean living and taking it up the %^* for the rest of your life, your cartoons will teach you this.

*Cue the music* Transformers, da da da da da, sanitizers in disguise.

Galvatron wil never win because he's purple and shouts a lot.
We love you Prime, we love you Prime. Yay! When I grow up, I want a chest cavity so I can insert a big crystal in myself.
 

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Old 2002-04-18, 04:16 PM   #36
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If Megatron was so stupid, how come Starscream never took over the leadership? Hmmm? Hmmm? Because Starscream was even more stupid. And don't talk to me about Megatron's big arm cannon scaring Starscream, because if Megatron was as dumb as you think, then he would still get his ass handed to him by the red jet dude.

I don't agree with any of your 'Megatron is a dumbass' thingers. If he was so stupid, how come he all but conquered Cybertron eh? eh? No my friends, Megatron is not stupid. Megatron rules. And You Know It.

But, having said what I said in the subject of this post (what do you mean you didn't read the subject?), I do think Megatron isn't as stupid as you keep saying Snake. If I ever stop being lazy, I'll even post a response telling you why...

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Old 2002-04-18, 05:50 PM   #37
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Sycophants will always flock to maniacs.

For the Decepticons, in various stages, Soundwave Shockwave and Cyclonus flocked to the banner, and never contested leadership (Ok, except for that one incident in the Movie.
 


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Old 2002-04-18, 06:00 PM   #38
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Oh yeah, Megatron's brilliant. His inept plans and "don't kill the enemy when you have the chance" attitude really makes him the best leader ever. How many times did he say "Decepticons! Retreat!"? So often that's copyrighted by him. I have to pay him $500 for saying that.

He sucks. He's stupid beyond belief. And he survives on pure luck, and the writer's love for his character.

All but conquered Cybertron? Well, who on the planet was going to stop him? Alpha Trion? The Cons did a quite a number on him, and that was just to steal the key to Vector Sigma. Had they been on a mission to kill him, he'd certainly be dead. (If there had been time to show what happened, I'm sure Megatron would have been seen yelling at Starscream not to finish-off Alpha) And since he merged with Vector Sigma and was no longer an obstacle. And the female autobots, who are weak and stereotypical and relied on Alpha Trion constantly? Oh yeah, what an army.

What are his great victories then, as the "greatest decepticon leader" ever? None. Conquering Cybertron in the movie? As I pointed out, there was basically nobody there to stop him. He made a final, stupid mistake by attacking autobot city. And sure, he managed to kill Prime, but only because Hot Rod distracted Optimus. And it cost of his own life anyway. His stupidity would have been fatal, but his luck saved him when Unicron granted him a new body. (Well, being made into the herald and slave of a dark god who wants to devour the universe is sort of lucky, better than being dead.)

Had Starscream being tougher, and had a little better luck (his was amongst the worst of all the characters), he'd have been calling the shots and the autobots would have been wiped out long ago.

Megatron is an overbearing moron with a big gun, that's it. Remember "Child's Play", when Perceptor was trying to shut down the Space Bridge? What's Megatron's solution to this "problem" (I guess it could be considered a problem if they have a schedule to keep)? Shoot the space bridge controller. What else do you expect a well-armed idiot to do? And then he whines when it malfunctions and loses his enegon cubes?

I think it was Walky who first pointed out that Megatron's helmet resembles a bedpan. How appropriate for him, since he has sh*t for brains. He's a moron with heavy artillery. He should stick to what he knows; blowing things up, and stay away from things that involve complex thought, like leadership, or speaking aloud.


*Head begins to spin around uncontrollably, ala Beetlejuice.

I admit it; I'm addicted to Megatron-bashing!

ARGH!!!

*men in the white coats drag Snake off so he can get some rest...
 

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Old 2002-04-18, 06:07 PM   #39
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Megatron was trapped into what is known as "bad guy for a kid's show" and doomed by that circumstance...I try to keep that in mind when viewing his failures.

I think "near-misses" are all a villain is ever going to come too, although off the top of my head Megatron desroyed the Golden Lagoon, a nice tactical defeat for the Autobots. Converting the Constructicons with the Robo-Smasher was no small feat either, and desroying one of the most pristine of the Autobot cities on Cybertron. Psychologically impairing Omega Supreme must have been a nice bonus.
 


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Old 2002-04-18, 11:05 PM   #40
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AS far as the comics are concerned, Megatron is far from stupid. He was the first Decepticon and actually managed to raise an army through propoganda and general persuasion. He had his manic side, but he could, at times, prove fairly charismatic (when it suited him...). He was overconfident at times, which occasionally led to a downfall, but he inspired people.

He was only really taken down when the treacherous Shockwave set him up against all five Predacons, and even then he was a little emotionally clouded! And he survived...

...to inspire and rule again! Both in G1 and again in G2! He's pretty smart, and very tough.

Galvatron even more so on both counts. In the UK comic, he destroyed whole armies of Autobots almost single-handedly.
 
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