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Old 2014-06-21, 09:01 PM   #21
Knightdramon
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Seen pics of all.

Chromia is heavily remoulded from RID Arcee. She and Generations Arcee actually look very nice.

Liking Brainstorm.

Voyager Prime must be an accident. Or severely, ultimately mistransformed. Seriously, there's an error. He must decompress from the waist or something.

Megatron is...underwhelming. Is it just me or is he extremely...basic?

Evasion Prime rusty deco appears better than takara's, and comes with a repaint of Skids and that Dreads deluxe from DOTM. This set is on my list.

EDIT: And LDR Grimlock with LDR Clear and chromed Optimus. These two sets are killer.
 
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Old 2014-06-21, 09:31 PM   #22
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Chromia is heavily remoulded from RID Arcee. She and Generations Arcee actually look very nice.
**squints**

Well, so it is. Didn't even realize. Explains the whole Prime Arcee vibe I was getting before.

That's pretty extensive, though. New arms, new upper-legs, new head and new alt-mode... she may as well be a whole new figure. Really, the torso is the only give away.
 
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Old 2014-06-21, 09:52 PM   #23
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My first hint was the lower legs...then the arms and torso kind of looked familiar in shape and purpose, then the cycle mode and how the legs ended up where they are.

Still, this is our next Springer/Sandstorm level of remoulding.
 
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Old 2014-06-21, 10:10 PM   #24
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The leader Megatron is great. Reminds me of the April Fool's line art posted by Hasbro back in 2007. Would prefer a brown version like the desert camo tanks usually come in, but yeah... that'll do.
 
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Old 2014-06-22, 08:41 AM   #25
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Things I like...Brainstorm, Roadbuster, Bombshell and Windblade (she does look nice).

Not really much else grabbing me, very impressed with the Samurai looking Drift figure though.

Generations badly needs some properly good Decepticon toys. It feels very one-sided at the moment with the Autobots getting the lion's share of the 'upgrades' and the Decepticons just having to make do with repaints. The few original mould toys the 'cons have got have been less than stellar (hello Blitzwing - although I still adore my Doubledealer..!) and it would be nice to see them getting some love.
 
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Old 2014-06-22, 03:32 PM   #26
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The crazy internet theory of the day is that the reason why Voyager Optimus is so horrible is that he's actually designed as a combiner torso. The "theme" for the 2015 Generations line is supposed to be gestalts (with Superion the first one they've teased), the Hasbro designers were all coyly going "oh, there's more to this Optimus than you realize, you'll figure it out when it's closer to release", and the toy itself has a whole bunch of random moving panels that have absolutely nothing to do with his transformation.

I think it's actually fairly likely, on balance, that they're right about this. Where I disagree with them is that I don't think it excuses the terrible looks at all -- the toy is still pinheaded with a ridiculous waist, badly-proportioned limbs and a poor transformation.

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Chromia is heavily remoulded from RID Arcee.
At first I was like "What? That's crazy talk!" But she totally is. And you're right about it being Sandstorm-level retooling. Just from looking at the stock photos, I think more parts have been changed than left the same.

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Generations badly needs some properly good Decepticon toys. It feels very one-sided at the moment with the Autobots getting the lion's share of the 'upgrades' and the Decepticons just having to make do with repaints. The few original mould toys the 'cons have got have been less than stellar (hello Blitzwing - although I still adore my Doubledealer..!) and it would be nice to see them getting some love.
I never realized until just now, but that is completely spot on. The latest batch of Generations (everything post-FoC) has brought us very few new Decepticon molds. Some quick back-of-the-envelope math tells me that we've gotten ten new Legends molds (only four of them Decepticon), two Deluxe Decepticon molds out of fourteen (plus a Predacon and a Vehicon, which aren't the same thing), one Voyager out of eight (plus a pending Predacon), one out of two leaders and zero Titans.

So eight out of thirty-five molds in their 30th Anniversary sub-line were designed to be Decepticons -- less than 25%! And those eight include three new Megatrons and two new Starscreams, so things wind up feeling even less equitable than they actually are. The only 'fresh' Decepticons to come out over nearly two years worth of product are Shrapnel, Bombshell and the not very well-received Blitzwing.

It's definitely a big change from the FoC stuff, where the breakdown went the other way (75% of those molds were Decepticon, though most were reused as Autobots later so the number of actual figures was about the same) or the original Generations line where things were split 50/50.

If "combiners" really is the theme for 2015, though, I suspect we'll see things get back onto a more even footing. We've already seen Superion teasers and the number of figures they quoted suggest there are three more teams lined up -- I'd guess Protectobots, Constructicons and Stunticons.

(Hopefully the individual figures turn out better than the FoC Combaticons)
 
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Old 2014-06-22, 04:13 PM   #27
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If "combiners" really is the theme for 2015, though, I suspect we'll see things get back onto a more even footing. We've already seen Superion teasers and the number of figures they quoted suggest there are three more teams lined up -- I'd guess Protectobots, Constructicons and Stunticons.
I'm digging the idea of a year of combiners, if they turn out well. I'm just wondering if they're going to end up being Energon-style, with the repaint limbs, wasn't too thrilled with that the first time. Though given their recent forays into heavy retools like Sandstorm and Chromia, they may go that route.

Personally, I'm hoping for a new set of Technobots. They always seem to get left out, except for pointless filler repaint.
Though I'm expecting whatever teams they do to be something with some semi-logical repaint potential. Stunticons into random Autobot cars stapled together/Masquerade, Aerialbots into random Decepti-jets or Seekers, etc. That or they'll re-use some limb molds across two or more gestalts.
 
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Old 2014-06-22, 05:42 PM   #28
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General thought's the same as most of the people here... Optimus looks ugly, the Megatrons look underwhelming, but Arcee, Brainstorm, Chromia and Bombshell look awesome.

Now if only these guys will actually show up in retail....

Combiners is a big resounding 'meh' for me, considering past attempts like mini-Abominus and Bruticus have been mostly underwhelming and generally ending up making the individual little toys suck. Would rather have a full set of Aerialbots, Constructicons, Protectobots or whatever that didn't combine but are just good toys.

Though by combiners they could mean stuff like Jetwing Optimus or Tidal Wave Armada Megatron some shit like that... doesn't give an excuse for that atrocious Optimus toy, though.
 
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Old 2014-06-22, 06:20 PM   #29
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(Hopefully the individual figures turn out better than the FoC Combaticons)
And of course we have the third party conundrum: despite having many unofficial combiners, those are all the result of different design groups working independently of each other and taking their time. If Hasbro wants to make multiple teams within a year, the chances of them all turning out like the like the FOC Combaticons, a seemingly rushed job, gets higher.

It'll also be interesting to see their choices for size. Four basics plus a deluxe nets you the Energon teams, which are about the size of a leader (basics are of course non-existent now or have been renamed Legion Commander class). Four deluxes plus a voyager would be larger, but of course cost more. In either case, the problem is coordinating the release schedules for waves of different size classes. Two solutions could be to either sell them as a boxed set, or make them all the same size. And while I do like how the Combaticons look as an ensemble together that way, the latter solution really screws with the combined mode's proportions.

Still, I look forward to see what comes to fruition. How many years have Hasbro said that they don't like doing combiners? And how many third party combiners are there now that have been gobbled up by the fandom at five times the cost of what Hasbro would sell them for? It seems that they finally got a clue that sales can be pollinated by having the figures interact through combination... which they knew very well back in 1986.
 
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Old 2014-06-22, 06:24 PM   #30
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Though again, how much has the presence of third-party combiners hurt Hasbro's intention to release them? Certainly the amount of third-party combiners out there and the amount of fans who have them would make Hasbro relatively iffy about releasing more combiners...

Certainly would look forward to owning them if they do end up being good, however.
 
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Old 2014-06-22, 06:31 PM   #31
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Though again, how much has the presence of third-party combiners hurt Hasbro's intention to release them? Certainly the amount of third-party combiners out there and the amount of fans who have them would make Hasbro relatively iffy about releasing more combiners...

Certainly would look forward to owning them if they do end up being good, however.
Probably depends on how they rate a specific combiner. Hasbro can, of course, produce things at such a scale so that the end products are a fraction of what the third party stuff costs. Plus with them being official and all, people double-dipping would seem probable. So in that sense, it wouldn't be relevant.

But it may be that if they look at something like Hercules and ask, "can we produce six voyager-sized constructicons that combine and entice both the niche fandom and general retailers?" the answer would be to shelve the idea. Their first idea for Devastator was to just repaint Buildron from Superlink, so we should also consider their unwillingness to gamble with larger scale stuff.
 
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Old 2014-06-22, 06:32 PM   #32
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I think the third-party combiners (which are, what 2/3s of total third-party output?) have probably played a huge role in convincing Hasbro that there's money in this. After all, if people will pay $600 for gigantic combiners that look great but don't really fit with each other or anything else in their collection, they'll probably also fork over $90 for a slightly-less-imposing official one that works with their Classics toys.

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I'm digging the idea of a year of combiners, if they turn out well. I'm just wondering if they're going to end up being Energon-style, with the repaint limbs, wasn't too thrilled with that the first time. Though given their recent forays into heavy retools like Sandstorm and Chromia, they may go that route.
That's possible, yeah. Though if they make the Aerialbots and Stunticons, I'm not sure anyone would worry about design reuse. After all, all four of the smaller G1 Aerialbots were basically the same toy with different jet parts tacked on, with the same transformation and parts layout. The Stunticons were a bit more varied but still very "samey" as far as the design goes. Just make one "limb" design for each team, retool it with different alt-mode parts and maybe give it a Universe Sideswipe/Sunstreaker robot mode, and you're more or less there.

If they're planning to stick close to that for new toys, then those two teams would give them a lot of budget leeway when it comes to whatever else they're doing next year (in terms of not having to redeco everything).

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Personally, I'm hoping for a new set of Technobots. They always seem to get left out, except for pointless filler repaint.
Oh, I'd love to see Technobots and Terrorcons too. But it'd be a very pleasant surprise for that to happen before the pre-movie teams are tackled, unless they make a tiny Computron to go with BH Abominus.

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Though I'm expecting whatever teams they do to be something with some semi-logical repaint potential. Stunticons into random Autobot cars stapled together/Masquerade, Aerialbots into random Decepti-jets or Seekers, etc. That or they'll re-use some limb molds across two or more gestalts.
This is entirely possible too. Lots of people are speculating that Terrible Optimus was actually designed to be Motormaster for just that reason. Though considering the sameyness of the smaller Aerialbots and Stunticons, I'm not sure how wise it'd be to try and flog sixteen toys based on the same two basic designs inside of one year.

Another thing they could do is embrace the "scramble" aspect of the old toys and release one or two characters from each of the G1 combiners, rather than putting out complete sets right off the bat. Certain chunks of the fandom would be awash with rage over a move like that, but I'd love it!

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Combiners is a big resounding 'meh' for me, considering past attempts like mini-Abominus and Bruticus have been mostly underwhelming and generally ending up making the individual little toys suck. Would rather have a full set of Aerialbots, Constructicons, Protectobots or whatever that didn't combine but are just good toys.
Generally agree with that, TBH. I'd rather have cool toys of Scrapper, Fireflight, Dead End, Swindle, First Aid, Divebomb, Hun-grrr, Lightspeed, Seawing or Wildfly than a really cool Devastator or Superion that breaks apart into ugly or poorly-articulated components (I can only hope that they've learned some lessons from FoC Bruticus in that regard). I know when I saw that Superion silhouette, my first thought wasn't "yay combiners", but "yay, a new Skydive!"

I suspect you and I are in the minority when it comes to caring about combiner team members more than the gestalt forms, though.

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Though by combiners they could mean stuff like Jetwing Optimus or Tidal Wave Armada Megatron some shit like that... doesn't give an excuse for that atrocious Optimus toy, though.
The numbers the Hasbro folks gave were something like "5 Voyagers and 16 Deluxes", which a lot of people are parsing as "Scramble City" since it's Optimus plus four standard-sized special teams. It's all just speculation now, though, so who knows? There could be a bunch of curveballs in there with Duocons, Overlord or Energon-style combinations as well.
 
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Old 2014-06-22, 06:42 PM   #33
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Oh, missed this:

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And of course we have the third party conundrum: despite having many unofficial combiners, those are all the result of different design groups working independently of each other and taking their time. If Hasbro wants to make multiple teams within a year, the chances of them all turning out like the like the FOC Combaticons, a seemingly rushed job, gets higher.
I don't know that the Combaticons seemed all that rushed to me. They were just bad.

They suffered from the same problems that most of the FoC toys did, and that most "media-first" toys do: the designs they were working from were never actually meant to exist as physical manifestations, just look cool on-screen. Having to give them three modes instead of two only amplified a problem that most of the figures in that line suffered from, and the end result was clunky and awkward.

Plus 90% of the WFC/FoC character models look like ass to begin with, so even if the toy translations came together perfectly they were going to suck regardless.

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It'll also be interesting to see their choices for size.
Speculation is Voyager team leaders plus four Deluxe limbs, but we won't really know until we see the things. If it's true though, that's one of FoC Bruticus's problems fixed already.
 
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Old 2014-06-22, 06:42 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
I think the third-party combiners (which are, what 2/3s of total third-party output?) have probably played a huge role in convincing Hasbro that there's money in this. After all, if people will pay $600 for gigantic combiners that look great but don't really fit with each other or anything else in their collection, they'll probably also fork over $90 for a slightly-less-imposing official one that works with their Classics toys.
Winner

It's also worth noting that a couple of the third party combiners make use of extensive remolding for limbs as well. Feral Rex's Tantrum and Headstrong are extensive remolds of each other, as are Fansproject's Wildrider and Breakdown.

I don't know that you could do all four Stunticon limbs that way (Dragstrip stands out), but Aerialbots would be easy.
 
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Old 2014-06-23, 01:12 AM   #35
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The crazy internet theory of the day is that the reason why Voyager Optimus is so horrible is that he's actually designed as a combiner torso. The "theme" for the 2015 Generations line is supposed to be gestalts (with Superion the first one they've teased), the Hasbro designers were all coyly going "oh, there's more to this Optimus than you realize, you'll figure it out when it's closer to release", and the toy itself has a whole bunch of random moving panels that have absolutely nothing to do with his transformation.
Random thought: While not really a combiner in the strictest sense of the word that figure could make for a great torso for a Leader sized Powermaster Optimus Prime.
 
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Old 2014-06-23, 09:41 AM   #36
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Random thought: While not really a combiner in the strictest sense of the word that figure could make for a great torso for a Leader sized Powermaster Optimus Prime.
That was my first thought when I saw the pics, aside from ugly. The way chest seems to unfold, the placement of the smokestacks, etc. really looked like Powermaster Prime/Ginrai to me.
 
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Old 2014-06-23, 02:47 PM   #37
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I'm really intrigued by all the new Generations stuff!

I think it's fantastic we're getting new Insecticons in the 'Legends' size class. If they're anything of the quality/fun of Swerve, I'm totally sold - Just wish I could find me a Skrapnel around here to kick things off.

I've heard Tailgate is pretty 'meh' but I think I'd take a shot at Windcharger... maybe. And I'm in on Powerglide. Just sold off my Classics Ultra & DOTM Cyberverse Powerglide, so there's a perfect gap to fill! I may perhaps bite on Nemesis Prime as well. Unless they redeco that new Voyager Optimus Prime that looks quite horrid (maybe it'll look better in black?).

Arcee, Chromia, and Windblade all coming very soon? Talk about year of the fembots! Sold on all three, just to break up the Autobot sausagefest I currently have on my shelf.

Brainstorm looks great, even though I have no connection to, or interest in the character himself. I think the Headmaster deal is great.

Not going to get either of the Leader Megs nor Leader Jetfire. Somehow I feel better buying a bunch of little Transformers spread out in favor of one giant 'bot in the $50 range. Plus, my scale OCD won't tolerate it since I already have most of my 'big' bots in Voyager.

Looks like my wallet is going to hurt in the coming year or so. Better stop buying all those Halo MB sets so I can save up!
 
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Old 2014-06-24, 01:34 AM   #38
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In either case, the problem is coordinating the release schedules for waves of different size classes. Two solutions could be to either sell them as a boxed set, or make them all the same size. And while I do like how the Combaticons look as an ensemble together that way, the latter solution really screws with the combined mode's proportions.
They could sell two Deluxe-sized limb-bots in a single Voyager-sized box. You'd have 3 Voyagers in a wave, such as 1: Motormaster, 2: Dragstrip & Dead End, 3: Breakdown & Wildrider.

Mold reuse wouldn't be bad if they reuse a mold in different teams and keep the Scramble-City aspect. If Groove and Afterburner have the same mold, but one's Defensor's leg and the other's Computron's arm, it wouldn't be that obvious with the gestalts next to each other.
 
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Old 2014-06-24, 09:27 AM   #39
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They could sell two Deluxe-sized limb-bots in a single Voyager-sized box. You'd have 3 Voyagers in a wave, such as 1: Motormaster, 2: Dragstrip & Dead End, 3: Breakdown & Wildrider.
I don't think that's likely. If they did that instead of releasing the deluxes individually, it'd probably tick off retailers because of the shelf space it would chew up, plus the lack things to hang on the pegs. If they did that in addition to individual deluxes, something would shelfwarm badly because there'd be less torsos than limbs on the shelves.

My bet is they might do 5 bot box sets in addition to the individual releases, perhaps with the full sets being released a wave later to give people sort of a back up (and maybe with some bonus thing packed, like extra weapons or whatever to draw the completionists/tick people off).
That or instead of shipping the figures like they normally would (voyagers in one case, deluxes in another case), they might try making a case consist of 1 or 2 full sets of a voyager and the 4 deluxes.

Quote:
Mold reuse wouldn't be bad if they reuse a mold in different teams and keep the Scramble-City aspect. If Groove and Afterburner have the same mold, but one's Defensor's leg and the other's Computron's arm, it wouldn't be that obvious with the gestalts next to each other.
Yeah, that's the sort of thing I was thinking when I referenced the recent heavy retools they've been doing. Planned out well in advance, like they did with Springer/Sandstorm and the various Generations figures designed with extra heads for the repaints, they could easily make it cost effective.

Design a limb mold where the basic robot form is the same but they can use different arms, legs, and other parts to get various car alt modes out of it. So from one mold they could get 3 Stunticons, Lightspeed, and Streetwise. The 4 Aerialbot limbs, maybe Blast Off and Strafe could come from the same base. Groove and Afterburner like you mentioned. Blades and Vortex. That kind of planning could probably let them make a few one-off molds to properly complete a group, like Nosecone and Dragstrip.

That kind of system is probably why we're getting a year of combiners. Fully planned out like that they can make sure they'll appropriately recoup mold costs without resorting to seemingly random repaints like the Combaticons into Wreckers.
 
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Old 2014-06-25, 06:15 PM   #40
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Randomly looking up on the official pictures of the newly revealed Generation toys... and if her robot mode wasn't so feminine, I'd say that Chromia is a shoo-in to be repainted into Afterburner. That motorcycle mode is basically identical to Afterburner's.

Personally don't particularly care for combiners unless they make Devastator, Monstructor, Abominus or Piranacon. The only one confirmed was Superion, as I gather? Not hugely interested in him. I'll probably pick Skydive, but otherwise not a big fan of him.
 
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