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Old 2015-11-14, 08:07 AM   #21
inflatable dalek
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Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
That's sort of the problem, though. The script was highly silly but nobody seems to have informed the actors or director of that fact, as they seem to have done their absolute best to take the thing 100% seriously. Craig himself is a big part of the issue, because he does a great job of making Bond a brooding, world-weary hollow shell of a secret agent but his portrayal of the man just doesn't fit in a movie where he slaloms down a mountain in a wingless plane or deploys flamethrowers from a sportscar.
Oddly I think Craig was at his best since Casino Royale here. He seems to be the direct opposite of the usual Bond actor; they usually wind up moaning that the films don't give them a chance to do "Proper" acting and develop the character. Craig on the other hand, as a self confessed Sir Rog fan, has always given the impression in interviews he'd rather be shooting lasers in space and doing "I thought Christmas only came once a year" jokes.

I think the tailers might actually have helped with the mixed reception by promoting it as a completely different kind of film. They made it look like it was going to be another Very Serious Bond and instead we got the most unashamedly fun one since Tomorrow Never Dies. And yeah, that and ones like Octopussy don't tend to top anyone's favourites list but they're still a great watch.


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Oh, don't pretend you don't love it.
You might say that... nobody does it better.


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I never got the impression that Le Chiffre was a member of Quantum, though. Did they say that in QoS?

He worked for them in the same way that he worked for the African lunatic with the machete, I thought, laundering and investing their money. But it felt like he was an independent contractor rather than a part of their group. That's the only way the plot of the movie makes sense. They arranged for Bond and Vesper to go there under the assumption that they'd win and Quantum could make off with the cash, then killed Le Chiffre for his initial cockup that lost them their money to begin with.

If Le Chiffre was one of their own, then the whole thing winds up being a very overcomplicated scheme that ends with them burning one of their own operatives for failing at a plan that they actively ensured couldn't succeed.
Nah, I think you're making it more convoluted than it really was. Quantum/SPECTRE (actually, let's just call it The Organisation when talking specifically about CR so as not to get confused by the subsequent retcons) definitely didn't set Bond and Vesper on Le Chiffre, Bond finds out about his involvement before the airbus bomb fails so there would have been no need for them to set a trail for him to follow because his original plan hadn't gone tits up yet.

So Le Chiffe, on behalf of his organisation, takes the money from the African guy (who it's reasonable to assume doesn't know much about the bigger organisation considering he goes straight to Le Chiffre for his revenge) and invests it in shares designed to gain in value once the airport disaster happens.

Then when Bond kills the original bomber hired for the event and gets his phone, he's able to follow the trail, find out about the Le Chiffre connection and stop the bombing.

This failure makes Le Chiffre desperate (and perhaps one aspect of the book that isn't made clear in the film is he's so desperate he still goes ahead with the card game even though he knows SIS, CIA and Deuxième Bureau are all on to him and in the room) enough to organise the card game before either the African catches up with him or his own people take him out for the massive failure.

They know MI6 are sending someone (presumably because "We're everywhere!" as we subsequently learn), and Le Chiffre arranges for Vesper's boyfriend to be grabbed (retconned by the following film) so they can have an insider who can be forced to try and stop Bond interfering.

When this fails, the organisation have had enough and send someone to kill Le Chiffre and arrange to use Vesper to get their money back (one area it improves on the book as it means Mr. White has a reason not to kill Bond, the SMERSH man in the novel doesn't kill him because he doesn't have orders to).

All fairly straightforward and ends with doing for "Organised Nebulous Terrorism" what the book did for SMERSH as far as Bond is concerned: These bastards have to be made to pay.

That's why I still think CR is comfortably the best Craig still, the plot works, very few holes in there. As you'd expect for a story that has its core based on something Ian Fleming tried (and failed) to do for real during the war.

Indeed, it's hard to think of the last Bond film before it that has a plot that works as well... Licence to Kill I suppose, whatever that film's other flaws everything flows logically and there's a sensible approach taken to Bond's taking down of Sanchez.


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A part of me hopes that after Craig is done, they'll stop with the whole "updated for the modern world" thing and just make a bunch of period films set in the 1960s. Complete with evil Russkies, sinister SPECTRE agents and the whole shebang.
I would guess the relative failure of The Man From UNCLE would stop them considering that for the present. Plus a 60's set Bond would always struggle to escape from the shadow of the Bond films actually made in the '60's. Plus imagine the budget needed to recreate all those period foreign locations! SPECTRE is, amazingly, already the joint most expensive film ever made and they only had to film places that were already there for the most part.

On a similar topic, I was surprised to read the explosion of the SPECTRE base is apparently the biggest boom ever done for a film. It really doesn't feel like it does it?

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I'd assumed the same thing, that the ring had had all of their DNA on it. But that doesn't make any sense, since several of those men died nine years ago now and I'm pretty sure the guy Bond killed would have washed his hands a few times since then.
It was an attempt to introduce some Ian Fleming level bigotry by suggesting Mexicans don't wash.


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Makes as much sense as anything, I suppose. Especially since this movie tells us that your country is an Orwellian police state!
The real question is, what is going on with train drivers in the Craig films? The chap at the start of Skyfall keeps on going even though the entire rear of his train is being destroyed, and here Bond and Madeline get let off at their stop as if they haven't just been involved in a massive fight that wrecked this expensive old train.


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Seriously? That would be hilarious if it wasn't so backwards and wrongheaded. But then again, it is the same country that decided it knew better than it's people what pornography they should be allowed to access.
I know! I mean, I only looked up Blue is the Warmest Colour to check out Seydoux's acting talent prior to the film and, as it's a three hour movie, of course I made do with the 20 minute highlights package avalaible on certain sites. Which certainly gave me an idea of her talent, but if David Cameron were to look me up now it would give him quite the wrong idea about me. And I wouldn't want him to have that.

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Well, if he does recur I certainly hope he shows a bit more interest in what's going on than he did in this movie. He was practically sleepwalking through it.
Pure SPECTRElation on my part, but I would guess they've started him off fairly low key so they have somewhere to go with him in terms of following his arc in the books where he starts off fairly normal, even dull by Bond villain standards and then completely loses his shit thanks to two consecutive massive defeats from Bond and winds up walking around his self made Japanese suicide garden dressed as a samurai.

Oh, and whilst I can't see it being the title of the next one (three S titles in a row seems unlikely), Shatterhand (Blofeld's identity when hiding in Japan) would be a cool name for a future film.


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You're talking about Robinson, right? He was cool enough as a background guy but I don't remember him ever actually doing anything. I only know his name because he was in one of the old N64 games.
I think the problem with Tanner is he's basically redundant to the films. In the books what usually happens is M gives the broader points of Bond's mission and then "Chief of Staff" takes over and briefs him on the exact specifics. Which makes sense--the head of MI6 really wouldn't have time to go over every detail of a mission with one agent, but the movie's streamlining it (as they did when they basically made Bond's succession of secretaries and Miss Monneypenny the same character) so M just handles it all himself moves things along quicker.

Which leaves Tanner just sort of following M about with a puzzled expression and making suggestions that are immediately shot down like he's some sort of Worf.
 
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Old 2015-11-16, 10:47 PM   #22
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Finally saw this at the weekend.

I enjoyed it, though had a few niggles. Like I didn't follow how Q linked the ring to all those other guys. And I didn't get why White's daughter did a complete character 180 the moment she put on a slinky dress. And I didn't see the point of wasting post-Guardians Bautista as a basically mute thug. And I thought some of the action sequences were shit.

But overall I enjoyed it.

This, however, does a much better job than I could of articulating the things that are wrong with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvSHbaA4ep8
 
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Old 2015-11-17, 11:15 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
And I didn't get why White's daughter did a complete character 180 the moment she put on a slinky dress.
It was finding her dad's photos of her in his secret room that started to shift her viewpoint wasn't it?

Christ, how cheap are SPECTRE that they were using VHS in 2005ish? Considering Casino Royale had the Ocean Club using Blu Ray for its security cameras in the same year (almost as if it was some sort of gratuitous Sony product placement) are we really supposed to think a nice hotel had more resources?
 
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Old 2015-11-17, 11:27 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
It was finding her dad's photos of her in his secret room that started to shift her viewpoint wasn't it?
- Come near me and I'll cut you
- I'm quite drunk but this room shows maybe daddy did love me
- Yes I know how to use a gun thank you very ****ing much and I'll admit I once shot a man
- Oh Mr Bond you're so wonderful I'll totally dress up and smile for you at dinner

Yeah, not buying it.

Unless I missed something crucial while I was giving the guy in the row behind the stink eye for looking at his iPad a-****ing-gain.

Also thought the Bellucci stuff was a bit rapey.

Check me out watching a Bond movie and getting hung up on the characterisation of the female lead. IKNOWRITE.

ANYWAY you've probably seen this three times so can you just fill me in on how Q connected the ring to Silva, etc? Because to me it felt like another case of coughcoughdontworryaboutthedetailscoughcough oh look here's a badly edited action sequence.
 
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Old 2015-11-17, 11:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
-
ANYWAY you've probably seen this three times so can you just fill me in on how Q connected the ring to Silva, etc? Because to me it felt like another case of coughcoughdontworryaboutthedetailscoughcough oh look here's a badly edited action sequence.
I've only seen it once (or once more than you've read this thread by the looks of it, but I shall repeat myself )


Medez' explanation on the Empire podcast: The SPECTRE ring's are made of special metal that left traces on the dead bodies of all the people brought up on Q's screen.

I'll let you decide how sensible that is (and it really isn't conveyed well in the film).


Interestingly, and I didn't spot this myself as I've not read the book recently, this was the first Bond film to properly use plot-rather than just a name as happened with "Colonel Sun-Moon"-- elements from a novel by someone other than Fleming. As opposed to previous "Oh, that's a bit similar, I wonder how much of a coincidence that was?" M's been kidnapped/fight on an airship/the plot of The Spy Who Loved Me moments.

The torture scene, and chunks of the dialogue in it (most notably Blofeld's bit about eyes) are taken directly from Colonel Sun with the Amis estate getting a "Thanks" at the end.

With that door open I look forward to Bond going to Disneyland Paris and enjoying it, Bond awkwardly using condoms in a bizarre safe sex message and Bond being told apart from his evil doppelgänger by his distinctive penis.
 
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Old 2015-11-17, 12:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by inflatable dalek View Post
I've only seen it once (or once more than you've read this thread by the looks of it, but I shall repeat myself )
I never claimed to have read the thread (far too many tl;dr size posts - you and Warcry just shouldn't be allowed in the same thread and tbh I only came here to post that video), but you totally like repeating things and it's your birthday so consider it your present?

Quote:
Medez' explanation on the Empire podcast: The SPECTRE ring's are made of special metal that left traces on the dead bodies of all the people brought up on Q's screen.

I'll let you decide how sensible that is (and it really isn't conveyed well in the film).
Personally I'd have gone with "hey this symbol was on the rings we found on all these other people" if I was writing it. But it's a good thing we've got directorial interviews to explain shit nowadays, right?

Quote:
The torture scene, and chunks of the dialogue in it (most notably Blofeld's bit about eyes) are taken directly from Colonel Sun with the Amis estate getting a "Thanks" at the end.
Does the book also include a bit where a man gets drilled through the cheek and doesn't even bleed? Because that was far more egregious than whatserface's character shift, if only because it was blatantly done in the search for a lower certificate. It's like, seriously, has nobody involved in this scene ever cut themself shaving?

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Bond being told apart from his evil doppelgänger by his distinctive penis.
Well at least we'll have graduated from stealing from Captain America to stealing from 100 Bullets. Sort of.
 
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Old 2015-11-17, 12:12 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
Does the book also include a bit where a man gets drilled through the cheek and doesn't even bleed? Because that was far more egregious than whatserface's character shift, if only because it was blatantly done in the search for a lower certificate. It's like, seriously, has nobody involved in this scene ever cut themself shaving?
From memory the torture in the book is designed to keep Bond in as good a shape as possible for as long as possible (with the "What point does the soul leave the body?" being the whole point of the exercise. Rather nicely Sun ends up rather depressed by the whole thing as he realises he's not as much of a sadist as he thought he was), so they'd have at least wiped up any blood quickly.

There's a lot more extensive and nasty stuff planned after sticking needles in his head as well, I can't remember how far along they got with it (though Bond is thoroughly ****ed off by the time the woman in the Swan role--no similarities in character beyond serving the same plot function as this is a prostitute bought in to taunt Bond with her body as he's tortured--helps to get him out) but it was supposed to end with him being given a drug that would have him convulse himself to death.
 
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Old 2015-11-17, 01:49 PM   #28
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I know what you mean. My own inability to cope with actors playing roles other than what they are most famous for meant I kept expecting Lea Seydoux to get completely naked and start fingering Miss Moneypenny.
My problem was that that the character of C reminded me way too much of Moriarty, whereas Swann didn't remind me at of Emma from Blue is the Warmest Color or Daniel Craig for that matter playing a petty thief who became Derek Jacobi's lover in another movie. Especially when C starts ranting about "What is democracy means anymore" before his fight M.

My favorite movie critic reviews Spectre
NSFW for language but he does make a good point about the Craig Bond films overall.
 



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Old 2015-11-17, 02:46 PM   #29
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Anybody following that link who didn't do so when I posted it half a dozen posts back is off my Christmas card list.
 
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Old 2015-11-17, 02:51 PM   #30
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Jesus, is no one reading this thread? This lack of paying attention is why they thought they could get away with not explaining the ring thing.

I tell you what though, I'm having more fun with my mental typecasting than Cyberstrike is.

Craig actually seems to be having trouble getting people to accept him as anything other than Bond. This is his first movie since Skyfall and the non Bond stuff he did between that and Quantum was all met with a "meh".
 
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Old 2015-11-17, 03:00 PM   #31
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Jesus, is no one reading this thread?
Pretty much the only attention I paid to the posts before mine was making sure nobody had already posted that video.

So I'm at least ahead in that regard.

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Craig actually seems to be having trouble getting people to accept him as anything other than Bond. This is his first movie since Skyfall and the non Bond stuff he did between that and Quantum was all met with a "meh".
What did he even do between Solace and Skyfall? Cowboys and Aliens, the Dragon Tattoo remake and the Olympics opening skit? I mean it's hardly a collective plea to be taken seriously.
 
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Old 2015-11-17, 03:18 PM   #32
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Was the Pullman adaptation before Quantum then?

It's telling that he keeps doing the first film in a franchise that never gets a second one. And he must have thought he was on to a sure thing with a Fincher directed thriller adaptation (he may have decided being married to Rachel Weisz is better than making films).

Mind, Brosnan looks at Craig's career with envy. Now there's a man waiting for his equivalent of Highlander to save him from that post Bond/post leading man slump.
 
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Old 2015-11-17, 03:24 PM   #33
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Was the Pullman adaptation before Quantum then?
Yes.
 
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Old 2015-12-02, 09:10 AM   #34
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The fact Bond is out of Copyright in Canada has already been taken advantage of by a forthcoming short story collection, but are we really for a Canadian Bond film?

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.co...our-eyes-only/

Chancers out for a payout presumably, are there any countries other than Canada it could actually be shown? Love how they're so confident in their preferred choice of famous Englishman Ryan Reynolds that they already have plans for a new black actor by the fourth movie they're planning.

I'd have thought the obvious thing to do would have been a faithful adaptation of Spy Who Loved Me, which has a similar setting to FYEO (though it's mostly south of the border. Mind, despite what the above link claims so is Eyes Only, Ontario is only briefly visited before Bond goes on his illicit hunt), but was famously ignored by its film and would be cheap to do.
 
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Old 2016-02-02, 06:07 PM   #35
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And Screenjunkies did the thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu4kFqmv3RM
 
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Old 2016-02-07, 09:24 PM   #36
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Jesus, is no one reading this thread? This lack of paying attention is why they thought they could get away with not explaining the ring thing.

I tell you what though, I'm having more fun with my mental typecasting than Cyberstrike is.
Mainly it's waiting to get the money for the blu-ray/dvd combo.
Dude my mental typecasting would make cry with joy. But since I'm in a miserable bastard mood I won't tell you.
 



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