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Old 2016-06-13, 06:55 PM   #21
Warcry
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British politics are kind of opaque from my POV, but honestly I don't think you can compare the Queen and the EU at all. One of them is a ceremonial figurehead with no real power and the other is actually capable of influencing laws inside the UK's borders. Even if you hate the idea of having royalty, the Queen's not really going to have much of an impact on your everyday life. There's the occasional call to get rid of the monarchy here in Canada too, but nothing ever comes of it because, to be perfectly honest, it just really doesn't matter all that much to most people.

I get why some of your people don't like the EU, and it does seem like a really dysfunctional, bloated institution, but I'm not sure how telling the rest of Europe to piss off is going to fix anything. Is it just a "national pride" thing that's driving it?
 
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Old 2016-06-13, 06:56 PM   #22
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Yup. And the end result of Populism is Boris Johnson and Donald Trump "they're so funny and say the things everyone's thinking". Of course they are...

@Warcry. The EU referendum was a Conservative election promise. And here we are, having the great EU debate. A debate that is mostly being skewed by allsorts of bulls*** claims about how much we pay in, what we get out of EU Membership.

As a small island nation that used to rule the world, we have a much puffed up opinion of ourselves, when really we should take a step back and realize we can't fend for ourselves anymore and aren't the global superpower we think we are. Farming, for instance, is reliant on massive EU subsidies just to remain viable in the UK.

I do like it here, but its so petty and small-minded sometimes.

That said, I think the migrant crisis has really tipped things over the edge. Europe has made such a pig's ear of that. Say what you like about David Cameron, but he had the UK's approach down pat - help people in their own country to prevent them making the journey to Europe. Sadly, that's been forgotten in the screeching about them all coming over here to take our benefits. Sigh.

Also; nice to see football hooliganism returning for Euro 2016.
 
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Old 2016-06-13, 07:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcry View Post
Is it just a "national pride" thing that's driving it?
Basically. There's a fine line between national pride and xenophobia, while a lot of people seem to think the "great" in Great Britain was awarded to us because we're amazing or something, rather than just referring to the expansion of the kingdom when the Scottish and British thrones merged.

The imperialist mindset is hard to kill.
 
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Old 2016-06-13, 07:01 PM   #24
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Whilst the Queen has little real power, the equally unelected House of Lords does.

Considering it would take six years to pull out, Trump might kill us all before then anyway.
 
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Old 2016-06-13, 07:07 PM   #25
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Oh God, he's been super classy in the wake of the Orlando shootings hasn't he?

At least 'Dubya' was too dumb to press the button, Trump's enough of a blow hard that he becomes president, we'll all be dead by next year.
 
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Old 2016-06-13, 07:22 PM   #26
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I don't know if I'd worry so much about Trump. He seems like the sort of guy who'd loose interest immediately after getting the ego boost of winning the election, then spend the next four years alternately golfing and giving out tax breaks and cabinet posts to his buddies. Implementing world-destroying policies seems too much like hard work for someone like him.

I sincerely hope to never find out though, don't get me wrong.

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Originally Posted by Brendocon 2.0 View Post
The imperialist mindset is hard to kill.
I'd imagine a lot of the older generations still remember being raised to think of the other European powers as the enemy, too, which doesn't help. It's probably a bit humbling for them to be united with old foes like Germany and France, or to accept countries who were hostile Cold War puppets a few decades ago as equals.

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Whilst the Queen has little real power, the equally unelected House of Lords does.
Similar to our Senate then, although senators are appointed party hacks rather than hereditary.

Does the House of Lords actually do anything to interfere with what the elected government passes, or do they spend all their time defrauding taxpayers, taking bribes from the prime minister's office and being investigated by police like our lovely upper house?
 
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Old 2016-06-13, 07:32 PM   #27
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I sincerely hope to never find out though, don't get me wrong.
If I were him I'd be focusing more on building a wall so I don't have to look at Canada.


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Does the House of Lords actually do anything to interfere with what the elected government passes, or do they spend all their time defrauding taxpayers, taking bribes from the prime minister's office and being investigated by police like our lovely upper house?
yep, they're basically (very basically) half the government. All laws and policy has to go through and be ratified by them.
 
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Old 2016-06-13, 07:46 PM   #28
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If I were him I'd be focusing more on building a wall so I don't have to look at Canada.
That would be great for us actually, since it would keep out the hordes of American illegal immigrants who are going to try and cross into Canada to find work if Trump actually does what he's promising and starts trade wars with every second country in the world.

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yep, they're basically (very basically) half the government. All laws and policy has to go through and be ratified by them.
It's the same way here with the Senate (our dysfunctional government was modelled after yours -- thanks so much for that, by the way). But they rarely actually do anything, if that makes sense. 99.9% of the time they just rubber stamp whatever the House of Commons sends their way, and if they don't it's usually because whoever wrote the bill wrote something hilariously unconstitutional into it so it has to be sent back for amendments. So the only time we ever remember they exist is when a scandal happens -- expense fraud, bribery, that one creep challenging the guy who's now Prime Minister to a fist fight, that same guy turning out to be a sex offender to the surprise of absolutely nobody...

Unlike the queen, lots of people want to get rid of the Senate (myself included) if for no other reason than that they're embarrassing. If they were useless but behaved themselves, like her, I doubt anyone would care.
 
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Old 2016-06-13, 08:37 PM   #29
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One thing the House Of Lords did actually try to do right and exert an actual conscience on the government is this wherein they attempted to stop the government cutting benefits to the disabled. Unfortunately, the government enforced a "but it costs money" priviledge to overrule them
 

"When did you first realize that he uses bad grammar to distract you whenever you raise an objection to something he wants to do?"
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Old 2016-06-14, 04:15 AM   #30
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Quote:
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I sincerely hope to never find out though, don't get me wrong.
I don't think that Trump really has any chance of getting elected TBH. He's just much too happy being a complete asshat to get enough votes, but even if he does get elected I don't think he's quite capable of navigating politics and getting anything he'd want to do accomplished. He's managing to alienate anyone in the capital that might support him and any of his policies. I think he'd find himself a very impotent president.

Hillary on the other hand is well acquainted with what is involved with being in power in Washington DC and she's very in the pocket of those who hold real power. She's scary and she's almost certainly going to get elected.
 
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Old 2016-06-14, 07:27 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Skyquake87 View Post
Also; nice to see football hooliganism returning for Euro 2016.
While we have a handful of meat heads that's mainly the Russians. Their football fans are ours thirty years ago, right down to systematic racism in domestic games.
 
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Old 2016-06-14, 03:24 PM   #32
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One thing the House Of Lords did actually try to do right and exert an actual conscience on the government is this wherein they attempted to stop the government cutting benefits to the disabled. Unfortunately, the government enforced a "but it costs money" priviledge to overrule them
You know something's gone wrong when the out of touch hereditary aristocracy are the ones trying to protect the poor and vulnerable while those same people's elected representatives put the boot to them.

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I think he'd find himself a very impotent president.
He would certainly have a hard time pushing any of his policies through congress when both parties hate him. I could see him trying to abuse executive orders to get it done anyway, though, if he actually cares about the ideas he's pushing enough to try and implement them rather than it just being a big ego show.

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Hillary on the other hand is well acquainted with what is involved with being in power in Washington DC and she's very in the pocket of those who hold real power. She's scary and she's almost certainly going to get elected.
I don't want to get too much into US politics, but it really says something when both parties have managed to nominate between them the two least-popular serious presidential candidates since pollsters have started tracking candidate popularity. The Republicans are especially mental because they've known for years that they'd be facing Hillary and just how unpopular she was. And yet somehow all the boring-but-solid people who would have beaten her in a cakewalk got run out of town on a rail and the only two people who got serious support in the primaries were the two crazy extremists she had a solid chance of beating. I don't see how they could have sabotaged their own chances any worse short of nominating Dick Cheney.

(And yes, Hillary seems to be nearly as shit as Trump, for all the reasons you described and many, many more.)

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While we have a handful of meat heads that's mainly the Russians. Their football fans are ours thirty years ago, right down to systematic racism in domestic games.
I dunno, I'm pretty sure it was the British fans who paraded through Marseilles's Muslim neighbourhoods chanting for ISIS to come out so they could kick their butts...

Football hooliganism is crazy stuff, though. I'm honestly surprised that no North American sports have developed that sort of fan culture, especially American football where the fan experience seems to come down to getting as drunk as physically possible as they drag fifteen minutes of gameplay out over four hours. Though I suppose geography plays a big role. It's a lot easier for fans of rival clubs to travel across the UK en masse than it is to get a few thousand baseball or hockey fans from Anaheim to Toronto.
 
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Old 2016-06-14, 03:47 PM   #33
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I dunno, I'm pretty sure it was the British fans who paraded through Marseilles's Muslim neighbourhoods chanting for ISIS to come out so they could kick their butts...
ENGLISH fans, dude. ENGLISH. I'm not having the Welsh and Nirish taking credit for the actions of our ****ing idiots.

Major difference is that if our fans try that shit over here they tend to be ejected, banned and disowned. Russia's official reaction seems to have been "well done guys, keep up the good work!"

We've got idiots, definitely. But we're working hard to make them the minority. Russia seem to think it's all perfectly fine and within the spirit of things.

They're hosting the next world cup, too. Which will be great fun.

Quote:
Football hooliganism is crazy stuff, though. I'm honestly surprised that no North American sports have developed that sort of fan culture, especially American football where the fan experience seems to come down to getting as drunk as physically possible as they drag fifteen minutes of gameplay out over four hours. Though I suppose geography plays a big role. It's a lot easier for fans of rival clubs to travel across the UK en masse than it is to get a few thousand baseball or hockey fans from Anaheim to Toronto.
Yeah, I get the impression that "away support" isn't really as big a thing over there. A lot of it comes from incredibly drunk people deciding that it's not about sport so much as it is a turf war. ****ing idiotic films that glamourise the shit don't really help either.
 
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Old 2016-06-14, 04:28 PM   #34
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Major difference is that if our fans try that shit over here they tend to be ejected, banned and disowned. Russia's official reaction seems to have been "well done guys, keep up the good work!"
I can't imagine what a disaster area their stadiums must be, if that's the case. Over here if you act up you get the same treatment as you're describing in England -- booted, banned and eviscerated in the media, so hooliganism never really catches on. Like maybe once every few years you'll see some idiot trying to import that fine European sporting tradition of throwing bananas at black players, but after they get a highly-publicized lifetime ban the other idiots are reminded where the line is and not to cross it. Or very rarely fans might riot after their team loses a championship game (Hi, Vancouver!). But usually the worst you'll get over here are hateful or homophobic chants directed at opposing players.

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We've got idiots, definitely. But we're working hard to make them the minority. Russia seem to think it's all perfectly fine and within the spirit of things.

They're hosting the next world cup, too. Which will be great fun.
Still better than vuvuzelas.

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Yeah, I get the impression that "away support" isn't really as big a thing over there. A lot of it comes from incredibly drunk people deciding that it's not about sport so much as it is a turf war. ****ing idiotic films that glamourise the shit don't really help either.
You will see visiting team fans in the crowds over here but usually they're either transplants (there's tons of fans in visiting garb at hockey games in Florida because there's tons of retirees there from Canada and the northern US) or traitors who support whoever the "big" team is in the sport rather than their home team -- so the Maple Leafs in hockey, the Yankees in baseball, the Heat in basketball and probably someone in American football too but who cares about American football. The latter do tend to cause trouble, because the people willing to show up to their home team's arena in enemy colours tend toward being loudmouths, and drunken home fans sometimes try to shut them up. It's not uncommon for fistfights to break out, but they're usually small scale, quickly contained and lead to bans and a night in the drunk tank.

The only large-scale fan travel that I can think of off the top of my head is Toronto and Montreal fans heading to Ottawa for hockey games, and even then it's mainly because it's easier and cheaper (even factoring in the travel) to do that than get tickets for the home games.
 
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Old 2016-06-14, 07:38 PM   #35
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Remember, the Philadelphia Eagles stadium used to have a courthouse and jail built in because their fans were so bad - I think the general consensus is "don't go to a game in Philly with the visiting teams jersey on, bad things will happen to you"
 

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Old 2016-06-14, 07:41 PM   #36
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You know something's gone wrong when the out of touch hereditary aristocracy are the ones trying to protect the poor and vulnerable while those same people's elected representatives put the boot to them.
While some members of the House Of Lords are indeed hereditary, most are made so by the Queens Honours lists, and generally chosen by the government of the day and are usually chairman of big business. The Lords right now I would imagine would consist of made Lords from the arse end of Major's last Tory Government, a shitload from the New Labour Years and a handful from the coalition and current shower of shite
 

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Old 2016-06-14, 07:49 PM   #37
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That's actually not very different from our Senate, then. Appointees here are also usually big party donors, businessmen, token activists and the like, people that the governing party wants to give a government paycheque to but don't want to give any actual power and/or don't trust enough to let them run for Parliament.

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Remember, the Philadelphia Eagles stadium used to have a courthouse and jail built in because their fans were so bad - I think the general consensus is "don't go to a game in Philly with the visiting teams jersey on, bad things will happen to you"
That's definitely true Philly can be a bit rough. And Oakland/the Bay Area in general is another hot spot for that kind of nonsense. But random drunken violence is a much different animal from what sometimes happens in Europe. Fan violence is never a good thing, but there's a big difference between drunks throwing fists and organized gangs of hooligans roaming the stands and streets looking to start brawls.
 
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Old 2016-07-01, 02:46 PM   #38
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I think she's gone to far by having Great Britain murdered by her agents though.
 
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Old 2016-12-25, 11:49 PM   #39
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2016: "So you think I've let you off by Carrie Fisher being in a stable condition and looking like she might survive?

Well we'll see about that! Who did a famous Christmas song I can kill just before Christmas Day ends?

Noddy Holder? They might be surprised he was still alive (See: That bloke from Status Quo)...

Geoge Michael?! Ohhhhhh....that gets Band Aid in as well as Last Christmas. And makes the "That bloke from Status Quo is now the one dead person on Band Aid to be dead" people instantly definitively wrong without too much checking. DIE GEORGE!"

My mother is really upset. She still thought she might be in with a chance with him.

The second story on BBC News as I got in was about the Queen not going to church today. Presumably she looked at the rest of the year and gave up on the idea of God.
 
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Old 2016-12-26, 06:37 PM   #40
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He may not have been a celebrity of any kind, but my dad's dad passed away in the morning of Christmas day, the day after his 85th birthday.

This leaves me with no surviving grandparents. I guess it's official, my childhood is now over.
 
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