[Dorling Kindersley] The Ultimate Guide

Comics, cartoons, movies and fan stuff.
User avatar
secretcode
Posts: 3717
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:50 pm
Contact:

[Dorling Kindersley] The Ultimate Guide

Post by secretcode »

Hello. I was wondering something about the ultimate guide. Is it worth the purchase? I usually dig DK's books, especially the Star Wars one.

Is there any place with scans of it, in order for me to see a sample of what's inside?
Image
Latest Hauls: Supertrain Megazord, RID Galvatron, Nightwatch Prime
TF Total: 173 ---- Non-TF: 32
User avatar
Denyer
Posts: 33033
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2000 4:00 am
Location: Perfidious Albion
Contact:

Post by Denyer »

Ben included a couple of pages with his review:

http://www.bwtf.com/br/dkultimate.shtml

Wouldn't bother, personally -- a lot of it is grounded in Dreamwave continuity, and the new edition didn't allow for editing; it just contains a few extra pages of info leading into current stuff.

Then again, if you like the DK approach it might be your cup of tea. I wasn't too impressed by the comprehensiveness of the Batman one I read; reading around the subject on Wikipedia would probably be more in-depth.

(It's been published with various ISBN numbers, so look around on Amazon for secondhand copies.)

If you do get one, d'you feel like reviewing it?
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Post by inflatable dalek »

As a coffee table picture book it's fine. I've no great urge to get the new edition myself though.
User avatar
Halfshell
Posts: 19167
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 4:00 am
Location: Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Contact:

Post by Halfshell »

It's not worth the effort.
User avatar
secretcode
Posts: 3717
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:50 pm
Contact:

Post by secretcode »

Originally posted by Denyer
If you do get one, d'you feel like reviewing it?


Sure, Why not.
Image
Latest Hauls: Supertrain Megazord, RID Galvatron, Nightwatch Prime
TF Total: 173 ---- Non-TF: 32
User avatar
secretcode
Posts: 3717
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:50 pm
Contact:

Post by secretcode »

I picked it up today, I'll get around to reviewing soon, after things in real life are over with.
Image
Latest Hauls: Supertrain Megazord, RID Galvatron, Nightwatch Prime
TF Total: 173 ---- Non-TF: 32
User avatar
Tramp
Protoform
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:33 am
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post by Tramp »

I've read it, and I loved it. I found it to be very informative.
User avatar
Halfshell
Posts: 19167
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 4:00 am
Location: Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Contact:

Post by Halfshell »

I found it to be cobbled together, vague, uninformative, full of stuff that was blatantly made up on the spot and too focussed on a brand new continuity that crashed and burned about a fortnight later.
User avatar
Chris McFeely
Protoform
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 4:00 am
Contact:

Post by Chris McFeely »

I second Halfshell's comment. I normally *love* DK's "Ultimate Guide" books - the ones for characters like Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, the Avengers or Ghost Rider are great books that cover their entire history in print in a concise, informative manner. Where the TF book falls down is that this is NOT what it is - it's not a guide to "what has been," but a guide to "what is," more focused in attempting to create a new "definitive" Transformers continuity (the Dreamwave one, because it was current at the time) than in chroniciling the HISTORY of the franchise, which is what I wanted out of the book.

Now, that's not to say that the historical aspects go ignored - there ARE pages that cover the original cartoon and comics. But outside of those spreads, the entire G1 section is based around the Dreamwave universe, and this fails because the DW universe was so incredibly *underdeveloped* when the book was written. Consquently, most of the information in the book had to be MADE UP *FOR* THE BOOK, which to me is the *complete* antithesis of what an Ultimate Guide should be about.

This all applies only to the G1 section of the book, though. The BW, BM and Armada sections are quite well done. RiD is a ****ing joke, though, focusing only on toys and illustrated with a lot of bad images. And the incomplete nature of the tv show pages annoys me, as they pick and choose "select episodes" to talk about. Why not do them in the same maner as the comic pages, where, rather than do an issue-by-issue list, they just talk about the major events that happened?

Finally, what remains exceptionally tiresome is that everyone seems to think that Simon Furman is qualified to write every Transformers book ever. Because he's not. If someone who just *knew more* about what they were writing about, this book would be a lot better.

Despite ALL of that, though, if I ever see someone who has been out of Transformers since before Beast Wars wanting to get back into the franchise, I always reccommend this book. Although it's *specifics* are ****ed, it's a decent overview of what has been happening with Transformers since G1 that'll put you on the right track to getting back into the franchise. It's just really not much use for fans at all, because it's so low on actual, real historical information that it won't tell you a single damn thing you don't already know.
User avatar
Halfshell
Posts: 19167
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 4:00 am
Location: Don't complain to me. I don't care.
Contact:

Post by Halfshell »

Yeah, being the author of one aspect doesn't automatically qualify somebody as an authority on all of it.

What it needed was somebody who had a good grounding in most areas, with assists in each aspect from an expert in that field.
Chris McFeely wrote:Consquently, most of the information in the book had to be MADE UP *FOR* THE BOOK
I think the best example of this is Cybertron's robot mode. Okay, you can point to Cybertron Primus as being modelled after the image and yadda yadda yadda, but it doesn't change the fact that it was the first time in any kind of official anything where Cybertron had been depicted as having a transformation. It was a common fanwank idea, but one that could always be shot down as "Unicron spent his energy fashioning a robot mode, Primus spent his energy creating the Transformers to fight on his behalf".

Suddenly an artist's impression of what it might look like is being presented to fans as what it actually is... then it winds up in official fiction later. That's not documenting info. That's pulling it out of your arse and letting future events cover you.
User avatar
Damolisher
Protoform
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:11 am
Location: The craphole known as Paraparaumu, New Zealand.

Post by Damolisher »

Oh, but guys, it's not factually inaccurate. Everything is a retcon, everything they write is true, especially about Primus! (/Sarcasm)

In all honesty, I third Halfshell's opinion. The book is crap.
"Right, switch to Red Alert."
"Are you sure, sir? It does mean changing the bulb!"
User avatar
Sir Auros
Posts: 12980
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 4:00 am
Location: Virginia, USA
Contact:

Post by Sir Auros »

I don't think it's fully crap. I mean, it's an interesting read, but not everything in there is going to be accurate. It was DWcentric and like Brend said, they folded pretty soon after it was made. That said, if you're the type to spend time splitting hairs online about continuity...you need to spend less time online.
User avatar
another tf fan
Posts: 1692
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:08 am
Location: USA

Post by another tf fan »

I like the book well enough. Good reading on the John.

That said, as an " Ultimate Guide" it is not.

The way they covered Alternators and Classics but skipped over Cybertron really bugged me.
Come on and wind me up.
User avatar
Heinrad
Posts: 6281
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2001 5:00 am
Location: Riskin' it all on my Russian Roulette!

Post by Heinrad »

Eh, it's not bad. I liked the toy info, and I love the Powermaster Prime pic.

And the editing foul-ups are amusing.

My question is, why make the G1 characterization changes? Listing Ironhide as a construction engineer made no sense(in Armada/Energon/Cybertron, sure, but G1?), and grounding Bludgeon as an adherent to the dark forces at work in the Transformers universe......

Have they changed anything aside from adding new pages for the IDW stuff in newer printings?
As a professional tanuki (I'm a Japanese mythological animal, and a good luck charm), I have an alarm clock built into me somewhere. I also look like a stuffed animal. And you thought your life was tough......

3DS Friend Code: 1092-1274-7642
User avatar
Tramp
Protoform
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:33 am
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post by Tramp »

Heinrad wrote:Eh, it's not bad. I liked the toy info, and I love the Powermaster Prime pic.

And the editing foul-ups are amusing.

My question is, why make the G1 characterization changes? Listing Ironhide as a construction engineer made no sense(in Armada/Energon/Cybertron, sure, but G1?), and grounding Bludgeon as an adherent to the dark forces at work in the Transformers universe......

Have they changed anything aside from adding new pages for the IDW stuff in newer printings?
Bludgeon being an adherant of dark forces came from War Within: Dark Ages. In issue #1, Bludgeon, Mindwipe and Bugly are engaged in an arcane ritual when the Fallen enters their abode and recruits them as his acolytes.
User avatar
inflatable dalek
Posts: 24000
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:15 pm
Location: Kidderminster UK

Post by inflatable dalek »

Which is part of the reason the book is ultimately worthless as a character guide, things like the entry on Bludgeon only apply to one now defunct continuity rather that in this case only featured for a few issues.

I do agree that the bias towards Furman written comics is a little unfortunate, and probably misses the target audience a fair bit as well (the average nostalgia buyer is going to be more interested in the cartoon than Alignment and so on).
User avatar
Tramp
Protoform
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:33 am
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post by Tramp »

inflatable dalek wrote:Which is part of the reason the book is ultimately worthless as a character guide, things like the entry on Bludgeon only apply to one now defunct continuity rather that in this case only featured for a few issues.

I do agree that the bias towards Furman written comics is a little unfortunate, and probably misses the target audience a fair bit as well (the average nostalgia buyer is going to be more interested in the cartoon than Alignment and so on).
Whether or not the DW continuity is "defunct" or not is moot. The book was written while the DW continuity was in effect and the information DW itself used was taken from previous canon, in Bludgeon's case, from his tech spec and from Marvel, where he was more mystic. It has always been part of who Bludgeon is. Image http://www.unicron.us/tf1989/toypix/bludgeon.htm I was reading the Spotlight vol 2 TPB which included Spotlight: Soundwave, which had Bludgeon in it, and even there he was a mystic involved in arcane arts and such. It is something long established as part of his character. It was Simon Furman who instilled that into his character early on in Marvel, Furman who instilled it into his character in War Within: Dark Ages, and instilled it in Spotlight: Soundwave and in Stormbringer. Bludgeon is the classic mystic martial artist. A practitioner and believer in mystic arts and arcane codes and knowledge. He always has been. That wasn't just DW.
User avatar
zigzagger
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:40 am

Post by zigzagger »

Hmm. I don't know.... I wouldn't call Bludgeon a practitioner of dark arts, etc, in the IDW-verse (both in Stormbringer and Spotlight: Soundwave). Perhaps a martial artist, that does some to be a given with him. IDW's portrayal of him, though admittedly, seemed to take some cues from previous incarnations as a fanatic (at least in DW). IDW's Bludgeon has been more like a mad cult leader who, among other things, had believed that sending a non-sentient Thunderwing on a second rampage would purify and restore Cybertron to its formal glory. I don't recall him dabbling in dark arts in order to execute this vision. He's just a nut.
User avatar
Tramp
Protoform
Posts: 1109
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:33 am
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post by Tramp »

zigzagger wrote:Hmm. I don't know.... I wouldn't call Bludgeon a practitioner of dark arts, etc, in the IDW-verse (both in Stormbringer and Spotlight: Soundwave). Perhaps a martial artist, that does some to be a given with him. IDW's portrayal of him, though admittedly, seemed to take some cues from previous incarnations as a fanatic (at least in DW). IDW's Bludgeon has been more like a mad cult leader who, among other things, had believed that sending a non-sentient Thunderwing on a second rampage would purify and restore Cybertron to its formal glory. I don't recall him dabbling in dark arts in order to execute this vision. He's just a nut.
A cultist. By that very word, that implies arcane arts and the occult—dark arts and mysticism. not necessarily "hocus-pocus", but definatley occult knowledge and mystic beliefs. Metillikato is itself a mystic art, combining elements of both Circuit-Su and Chrystalocution with a strong dose of spirituality thrown in. That in and of itself makes him a practitioner of mystic arts.
User avatar
zigzagger
Posts: 3453
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:40 am

Post by zigzagger »

Could you not boldface. Thanks.
Post Reply