The Matrix Of Leadership

gregor69 · Post by **gregor69** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:42 am

Hey, my housemate just asked me a question, and I realised that I had no idea about an answer, that's why I'm throwing it up here.

Where did the matrix come from? I realised that successive generations of transformers after the first created by the Quintessons built the others, until we get the well known favourites we have today, but, unless it's in one of the 3 or 4 episodes I don't have yet, there has been no mention of where the Matrix came from, or who built it.

Oh well, I'm suprised that I never thought about it before, also, all Autobots are built with the capacity to carry the Matrix....... Aren't they?

bluekatt · Post by **bluekatt** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:26 am

cartoon never mentions it ( typically )
in the comic the matric is the life force of primus instilled in an holder
created by primus himself and implanted in the chest of the first transformer he created

in the cartoon thematrix is also a vessel and a portal to the matrix zone
you could argue that primus created it himself and neglected to tel his creations about the damn thing
or about unicron

stick with the comic explanation on that one

gregor69 · Post by **gregor69** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:20 pm

Ah, cool, many thanks blluekatt, as for Unicron, didn't that little guy who created that energy drinking creature in Call of the Primatives create Unicron too?

Zeeks · Post by **Zeeks** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:05 pm

Originally posted by gregor69
Ah, cool, many thanks blluekatt, as for Unicron, didn't that little guy who created that energy drinking creature in Call of the Primatives create Unicron too?

Yes, in the G1 cartoon, that was the story.
For some strange reason, I always had the impression that Alpha Trion had something to do with the creation of the matrix.......reason being that, since he created Prime, he must have had it laying around somewhere to give to Prime.

bluekatt · Post by **bluekatt** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:41 pm

Originally posted by gregor69
Ah, cool, many thanks blluekatt, as for Unicron, didn't that little guy who created that energy drinking creature in Call of the Primatives create Unicron too?

that primacron and in the cartoon that is sadly hwo the story goes
...the transformers greatest threat build by a monkey with a hat -.-

in the comic unicron is the chaos bringer an dark god primus is an light god and his eternal nemesis the transformers are his childeren and the last line of defense against unicron

i know what story iw ould choose

and mayeb alphatrion was the first to wear the matrix or build the thing with primus 's instructions i dunno

its another cartoon loophole you can turn a truck the size of ultra magnus in

Sixswitch · Post by **Sixswitch** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:43 pm

Geezus bluekatt. You're a one trick pony. You're the opposite of a rabid cartoon fanboy - a rabid anti-cartoon fanboy, and I really don't know which is worse. Give it a rest, for God's sake.

Anyway, my personal opinion is that the Matrix was rediscovered sometime in the 20 year interval between Season 2 and Season 3. Either that or it was only given to Prime somewhere between those seasons. That's completely feasible, and excluding a few minor points, it should stand up fairly well to scrutiny.

-Ss

bluekatt · Post by **bluekatt** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:03 pm

Originally posted by Sixswitch
Geezus bluekatt. You're a one trick pony. You're the opposite of a rabid cartoon fanboy - a rabid anti-cartoon fanboy, and I really don't know which is worse. Give it a rest, for God's sake.

no the horse is not yet dead enough
i hate the cartoon utterly and cant stand to watch but a few episodes off it

oh and a comic fanboy would not even awknowldge the good points of the cartoon or admit that there are some good episodes around

DrEvil · Post by **DrEvil** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:50 pm

It could argue it was created by the Quintesson's or the first Autobots... more likely the first Autobots whose leader's spark would enter a kind of sealed vaccum where it could be kept for eternity then the process would continue with each "generation"

It is a mystery though and that is the way it will be... for now

Sixswitch · Post by **Sixswitch** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:18 am

Originally posted by bluekatt
no the horse is not yet dead enough
i hate the cartoon utterly and cant stand to watch but a few episodes off it

Really? Who'd have thought it...

And I didn't call you a comic fanboy. You're an anti-"cartoon fanboy". You constantly bash the cartoon, even when doing so isn't relevent to the conversation at all. It's boring, and it's really rather sad.

You don't like the cartoon, that's great. Brilliant. Fantastic. But no one gives a ****, so kindly stop going on about it.

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:56 am

To be fair, this is a discussion board, and everyone's entitled to an opinion. It's quite undeniable, for instance, that the comic handled the Matrix better, giving it some sort of origin and consistency, rather than treating it as a device to wrap up all sorts of plot ends.

I know people disliking the cartoon is something you personally dislike, Ss. But on the other hand, neither you nor anyone else is really putting forward many reasons as to why it deserves respect. There's plenty of people here who will say "Boy, wasn't Wheelie annoying?" for a cheap shot - how is this any different?*

To be frank, if someone wants to dislike the cartoon, it's their preogative. If they want to post about it, that also is their perogative. If you don't want to read about it, that's your perogative. You're a five-star poster, and I refuse to fall out with you over which facet of an advertising campaign for a 20-year old toyline is the best. I'm just saying what I think, as I know you are.

* = bUt Wh33ly woz annoying d00d LOL - if this went through any of your minds when reading this sentence, **** off, and come back when you have at least one thought of your own.

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:13 am

Originally posted by Cliffjumper
and come back when you have at least one thought of your own.

Tom is being
extremely
mean to us. He
probably had prune juice
exactly one hour before he
started posting
today, which is why he's so crabby.

Sixswitch · Post by **Sixswitch** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:14 am

You're right, I do like the cartoon. And I can also spot each of its flaws - and if I were reading a thread about why the cartoon sucks, then I'd fully expect to see it ripped to pieces. If I were reading a thread about 'why the comic handled the Matrix better', I'd expect to see the weaknesses in the cartoon origin picked apart But I'm not reading either of these threads. So I don't see the relevance of pointing it out every other post. I have absolutely no problem with people disliking the cartoon. I just don't see why I need that fact constantly rammed down my throat.

cartoon never mentions it ( typically )

Was that last word strictly necessary to get the point across? Of course not, and this is what I mean by getting it rammed down my throat. I could (very) easily pick out another half-dozen examples of bluekatt doing this.

-Ss

EDIT: @ Strafe:

Cliffjumper · Post by **Cliffjumper** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:27 am

Yeh, that wasn't a shining moment of subtlety, for sure. But honestly, you get people throwing that kind of crap about all the time, for all sorts of different series/mediums/whatever. And while the other examples of Bluekatt doing this don't leap to mind [not syaing they don't exist, just that I don't remember them...], well, in some ways it's not an invalid comment. The cartoon did overlook a number of angles with a distressing frequency. Sure, so did the comic, but in this example at least it caught the ball.

And I really do think how the comic handled the Matrix differently is relevant, just as a topic about, say, Scorponok in the cartoon would have a valid angle...

"Scorponok was in the last couple of parts of The Rebirth"

"He got a lot of exposure in the comic too"

It's the way of Transformers discussion, frankly. Topics won't stay neatly segregated. If someone wants to bag Shockwave out for being a Space Janitor, anyone who likes Shockers is well within their rights to say yeh, well, he might've been a dolrailer in the cartoon, but hey, he rocked in the comic. Like I say, it's about discussion. Throwaway comments aren't good, you're right, and maybe Bluekatt could calm down on them for a while, or at least back them up. I'm not one for generalisation, myself.

Contrary to the chariacature of me people have decided on, I don't actually think the cartoon sucks that much, really. As cartoons go it's decent enough, and just because I find at least three other Transformers cartoons more enjoyable doesn't mean I despise the original. Most of my negative comments are generally directed against the fanboys, who frankly give 90% of cartoon fans a thoroughly bad name. That said, given the choice, which I do have, I'd rather read through a pile of TF comics for 20 minutes than watch an episode, but that to be honest is entirely my personal preference, as none of the TF animated series move as fast as I do. And I'd read Miracleman, Planetary or Authority over any of it

And Strafe, you rock so much you could be Boulder

gregor69 · Post by **gregor69** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:42 am

Well guys, first off, I didn't mean to start a thread that would get people sniping at each other, it wasn't a which is best thread, I was just after something that I prob missed in the toons, my thanks though for the info, and any chance of getting a scan of the comic about Unicron? That idea about him being an evil god and Primus being a light god is awsome, (wonder why it was never in the toon) and a question for everybody so far, does anybody know if all Autobots are built with the ability to recieve the matrix? Or was that just for example Ultra Magnus, because when Hot Rod caught the matrix it prepared him for when he became Rodimus Prime?

Zizicez · Post by **Zizicez** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:11 am

what about that stuff in COTP about the matrix being Primacron's assitant

and, er... Cliffy

Wheelys not really that annoying, but neither is Rodimus

but ppl just like to say "Wh33ly/R0d1mu5 5uck5!!!!1one" at uneven intervals because is an old joke that refuses to die

but i agree with you

Sixswitch · Post by **Sixswitch** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:19 am

There's nothing wrong with anyone despising the cartoon. It's their right as human beings for God's sake(

). I don't really see the relevence though, in comparing the comic and cartoon matrices, especially as (if memory serves) they were two completely different devices (creation matrix and matrix of leadership, right?).

Truth be told, I think the reason the cartoon never had the gods/religious angle was that they probably didn't think kids could handle the religious aspects of it very well, and parents would probably complain - I'd imagine that many more parents would have been exposed to the cartoon simply by being in the same room as their kids while watching it than would be exposed to the comics (reading is usually a solitary activity).

Although be grateful they didn't. I've dabbled in trying to write some religious fiction before, and it's bloody hard, to be honest. Converting that to a concept simple enough for kids, yet complex enough to be good would be very tricky, as would translating it into a cartoon. While I did enjoy the cartoon, the writers weren't particularly skilled at their craft (OK, I'm playing this down - I could have probably done a better job), and I doubt they'd pull it off very well.

Another possible reason is that they simply wanted to be different to the comic. I know I'd rather write original material than rewrite someone else's work.

Whew, back on topic.

-Ss

Fireflight · Post by **Fireflight** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:06 pm

Originally posted by gregor69
and any chance of getting a scan of the comic about Unicron? That idea about him being an evil god and Primus being a light god is awsome

These three pages should have what you need:
http://transfans2.com/images/comics/ukc ... 50/pg6.htm
http://transfans2.com/images/comics/ukc ... 50/pg7.htm
http://transfans2.com/images/comics/ukc ... 50/pg8.htm

Auntie Slag · Post by **Auntie Slag** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 1:22 pm

Originally posted by gregor69
and a question for everybody so far, does anybody know if all Autobots are built with the ability to recieve the matrix? Or was that just for example Ultra Magnus, because when Hot Rod caught the matrix it prepared him for when he became Rodimus Prime?

That’s a cool question. I think its one of those thoroughly intangible things, maybe investigating into the soul of the robot (Ha!).

How about this; all DVD players will readily accept discs, but few of them can read Region 28 (the fabled super region). So perhaps they could all accept the matrix in the following sense:

--------------------------------

Ultra Magnus: “Prime, I can’t accept this.... I’m not worthy”.

Prime: “Oh fine. Well, give it to Sideswipe then”.

Sideswipe: “WooT”!

--------------------------------

Sideswipe lifts up his shirt and tucks the matrix into his compartment. It doesn’t change him physically, because Sideswipe isn’t enough of a whiny bitch to become leader. He simply stores it for safe keeping and nothing happens.

The Matrix on the other hand, can readily spy Region 28 robots i.e. Optimus Prime, Hot Rod, Chase... and if they come into contact with it then the Matrix has the power to change them. They are compatible.

Alternatively someone could argue that Ultra Magnus had a defect preventing him from accepting the matrix, and Prime thought it would be a good wheeze to hand the Matrix over the only guy with a defective compartment. I mean, if it were found out that interfacing with the matrix would physically affect ANY Autobot, well there’d be lots of infighting wouldn’t there?

Optimus could have planned all of this millions of years ago. One night on Cybertron when Magnus was asleep, Optimus could have snuck up to Magnus, opened his chest and fritzed the flex capacitor diode thing that lets the Matrix flow through the strip. In this way Magnus would be a rubbish matrix holder, and everyone would remember Optimus as the greatest leader (its perfectly possible Optimus could have been conceited. Absolute power and all that):

-----------------------------------

Scene: On the planet of Junk before the Weird Al song:

Springer: “Fook, we’re getting creamed. Magnus sure is pants”.

Huffer: “God yeh. Prime would’ve whupped this lot by now. I really miss him”

Ghost of Prime: “Mua ha ha ha ha ha ha”! (ethereally)

-----------------------------------

Even more alternatively, the Matrix could be a complete sham. It could be a program that alters the physical construct of a host robot and nothing more. It is then up to the host to believe that he is now a great and responsible leader of men. Sort of like a glorified way of making someone the boss of a company, and then seeing how they change to suit their new position. Its activation could be a completely random occurrence. Hot Rod was simply lucky that his numbers came up and the thing changed him. It could just as easily have been Seaspray.

Imagine that, if Seaspray changed because the Matrix revamped his body, he might start thinking there’s more to it and he is in fact some great leader. So he starts acting like one and sure enough, kerblammo! He’s overtaken Optimus Prime in the popularity stakes.

So er.. no I don’t know. But theorising about it is kind of interesting.

gregor69 · Post by **gregor69** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:32 am

Originally posted by Fireflight
These three pages should have what you need:
http://transfans2.com/images/comics/ukc ... 50/pg6.htm
http://transfans2.com/images/comics/ukc ... 50/pg7.htm
http://transfans2.com/images/comics/ukc ... 50/pg8.htm

Many thanks Fireflight, thats awsome, and also re writes the history as I knew it, so instead of being created by the Quintessons, the Transformers were created by Primus, and Unicron created Galvatron and the others, like in the movie, does this mean that Primus would be the "Vector Sigma / The Sigma Computer"? And also it seems, that although the matracies have different names they did pretty much the same job, have I got that right?

gregor69 · Post by **gregor69** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:35 am

Originally posted by Auntie Slag
How about this; all DVD players will readily accept discs, but few of them can read Region 28 (the fabled super region). So perhaps they could all accept the matrix in the following sense:

Ultra Magnus: “Prime, I can’t accept this.... I’m not worthy”.

Prime: “Oh fine. Well, give it to Sideswipe then”.

Sideswipe: “WooT”!

Sideswipe lifts up his shirt and tucks the matrix into his compartment. It doesn’t change him physically, because Sideswipe isn’t enough of a whiny bitch to become leader. He simply stores it for safe keeping and nothing happens

Thats a really interesting out look on it, I'd never thought of it like that, but this brings rise to another question, how come Scourge could carry the matrix, and it changed him in "A Burden Hardest To Bear (G1.3)" while in the movie, Galvatron had to wear it on a chain?

Don't you love it when threads like these come up?

makes you feel like this sometimes hey?