[Video Games] Why these seemingly tedious sections in RPGs?

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Civ
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[Video Games] Why these seemingly tedious sections in RPGs?

Post by Civ »

Please note that the following is solely my opinion based on what I've found while playing RPG video games.

Okay, I just bought a used Playstation 2 about a week ago along with Final Fantasy X. Basically, I find it a fun game to play while going through the story; however, now, I'm in the part where it just gets tedious for me. Okay, I want to find this super-powerful summoning/weapon/item/unlock this secret but I have to go through at least 3+ hours of tedious, boring play to get it. Some examples I've read are people running around on a Chocobo/giant chicken for 5 hours just to get this one friggin' item. Or in order to continue leveling my characters, I now have to fight numerous little battles because the enemies just don't have that punch that they did.

I've found this in Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (I have to kill how many golden spiders to break the curse!?!) and Twilight Princess (5 heart pieces now for a whole one instead of 4...ugh...more searching...great). I also found this in Final Fantasy VII while trying to find the big summons. Diablo II/Diablo II: Lord of Destruction is especially true since after level 75ish, you have to go on "runs" to get your character to level up whether they're "cow runs", "Baal runs", or "Blood runs". I'll explain those if anyone is interested.

Now, I have nothing against sidequests as long as they tend to stay interesting and challenge me. For instance, the Weapons (bosses) in Final Fantasy VII, or the Cave of Trials in Legend of Zelda's Windwaker and Twilight Princess where you have to continually fight ever increasingly difficult enemies in a survival mode for the prize.

And the thing that gets me is that it's just not one game but multiple games where overly tedious stuff to do to get really good stuff is the norm. Why is this so seemingly popular? I know there are some people who would enjoy this just based on law-of-averages but do a majority find this enjoyable? Why make parts of a game a real drag/work to do if it's meant for enjoyment and an escape from work? My guess is it may be easier for the programmers to do this than continually creating new bosses.

Also, as a sidenote...who's idea was it that running across seemingly endless plains to get from point A to point B is considered fun?
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Plasmodium
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Post by Plasmodium »

Its just a way to create more gameplay hours. Have fun dodging lightning bolts for an hour, and avoiding butterflies!

Those dont bother me that much, I expect things like that to be added now. What really bothers me is missable items. You know, those things where no normal person other than the developer would be able to find without the help of a guide.
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Post by ColdBain »

I agree with you on that one Plasmodium. It seems a lot of RPGs (especially the newer ones) are designed to be played with the 'Official Guide'.

I personally enjoyed the 'tedious upgrading' moments in games, though I find that they become more 'tedious' with each passing game. I simply could not force myself to play FFX yet, (or at least, all the way through) simply because I know there are things I'm yet to complete in FFIX.

I also think it has something to do with the 'Role-playing' aspect of the game, living out an epic tale and all that.

I will say this though, the tedious-ness in these types of games aren't so bad if you know what you are doing. It's when you are left in the dark, and don't know where to go, and are wondering through a massive plain (like you said Civ) looking for that item or town. Is it around this corner? Nope, I better turn around- OH NO! I'm being attacked! Take me to the active battle screen, come on. It does get frustrating, I can appreciate and recognize the annoyance.

But I simply don't know why I still go back for more. Maybe the overall experience is more enjoyable than those moments. Or maybe they haven't perfected the art of the RPG yet.
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Post by Plasmodium »

Also, random battles. No game should have those anymore.
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Post by Jaynz »

I don't mind the random battles, if they're kept to reasonable frequency and play-thru pretty quickly. DQ VIII was rediculous with the random battles, but, having slogged through Beyond the Beyond recently, it'll be a bit before I complain TOO much about random battles in anything else again.
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Post by RID Scourge »

Yeah, I've gotten to tthe point in FFVII, where I'm trying to grow some materia for use against Emerald Weapon. Even with Cloud's Apocalypse sword (which has triple growth), this is a painfully slow process, and since I've maxed out everything else, and am just waiting on this, so I can fight Emerald, and then go take out Sephiroth, I haven't touched the game in about two months . . .

I'm only trying to complete everything because this is my third time playing it, and I'm determined to finish it, this time, damnit! Never again will I try to finish everything. I'm just playing through, unless I find myself needing to level up or in need of an item, from now on.
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Post by Plasmodium »

Ruby weapon is easier, you wont have to spend as much time working on him. FF8 was worse with Ultima (or was it Omega) weapon. Where you had to go down like 100 floors to reach him, beat him, and then climb all the way back up, with no save points throughout the entire process.
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Post by Sociopathic Autobot »

Originally posted by RID Scourge
Yeah, I've gotten to tthe point in FFVII, where I'm trying to grow some materia for use against Emerald Weapon.


That's simple.

North Cave take the left path then the upper path and bring w-item and elixers. Start fighting. I ended up with 4 knights of the round after four hours (only needed one, it just happened to be equipped).
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Post by RID Scourge »

Ah. I'm going for the 10 second approach that involves using two of your characters to use w-item, giving Barrett 4 hero drinks, then you have Barrett use his Ungarmax limit break, and that's where you stop pressing buttons. Meanwhile, Barrett is equipped with the counter-mime combination, so when emerald hits him, he'll counter with Ungarmax 8 times, which is more than enough to shred emerald, when his stats are boosted by the hero drinks. Found that one on youtube, but the counters and mimes take forever to master.
Originally posted by Plasmodium
Ruby weapon is easier, you wont have to spend as much time working on him. FF8 was worse with Ultima (or was it Omega) weapon. Where you had to go down like 100 floors to reach him, beat him, and then climb all the way back up, with no save points throughout the entire process.


Aye. Ruby is dead. Wow, that, right there, sounds like a tremendous pain in the keister.
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Post by ColdBain »

My goodness, it's been so long since I've played FF8 all the way that I completely forgot about the two Weapons in the game. Ultima is definately the one at the bottom of that 'sea research place'. Omega was the annoyance one inside that black/purple fog in Ultimecia's (spl?) Castle at the end of the game.

Plasmodium, I am astonished that you find Ruby weapon easier! I've only ever bothered to kill the bastard two or three times (since I've owned the game, which is since 1999) simply because he is so much hassle! There's that 'hero drink' trick to beating him, but I can never find more than one Hero Drink to duplicate with that W/Item thingy. (Best trick in the game!)

Sociopathic Autobot, you are talking (of course) about those little creatures that say 'gimme elixir' right? Great place to upgrade!

It might sound a little nerdy, but my goal in FF7 is to get all my characters to have a Master Green/Yellow/Red Materia each, with a mega-all and to increase all their stats to 255. I've found heaps of creatures (other than the ones that are in the sunken plane) that morph into the various Stat Sources around the FF7 world.

(I'm inbetween cities at the moment, so I'm actually unable to play any of my games till April the 8th, I've got so many games to play again!)
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Post by Sir Auros »

You guys keep saying "RPGs," but you seem to be referring to "JRPGs" AKA normal games that let you level up "your" characters while playing through the entirely linear story wherein you can affect neither the outcome nor the characterization. None of the games listed in the original post are what I would consider RPGs (not anymore than you're playing the role of a character in any game), especially not Zelda or Diablo. Now, I like both of those games, but Zelda only has a theme in common with many RPGs (it's usually classified as an adventure game) and Diablo has the whole levelling up aspect and the ability to choose some dialogue, but it's really, really linear.

I hate JRPGs with a passion, and to be honest, I kind of look down on anyone over 15 who still plays the things.
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Post by Jaynz »

That's okay, Auros, we look down on you too. :P

And, personally, I look down on ANY gaming purist or elitist, pretty much in the same way I look down on any FANDOM purist or elitist. Video Games, RPGs, Consoles, Transformers, Star Trek, Star Wars, Flash the Wonder Puppy... I don't care.

We're playing games, transforming toys, watching cheap animation, and having fun. And, if that last bit isn't what's actually important to you, then you've missed the ****ing point.

And, therefore, I look down on you.
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Post by Sir Auros »

That's fine. I still think anime and those games are stupid as hell, but if you like grinding through the same hackneyed, Japanese-style-backasswards plots, go for it.
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Post by AngelOfDeath124 »

I can understand people's frustration with tedium in JRPGs...I've had problems finishing some of them simply because it got to the point where I'm just so tired of running around the same area trying to level/find a specific item/beat a specific boss that I just hung the game up for a while.

Eventually, however, I do go back and manage to beat them(usually having to start ALL over again because I deleted my save of the game...), it just takes a while, or getting the next in the series (ie. Xenosaga Ep2... did not want to beat that game, it sucked compared to both 1 and 3...).

At the moment, I'm playing FFXII (yes, I know.) And I love it. Its challenging in ways previous FFs haven't been, at least for me. I'm enjoying the fact that I can actually DIE at boss fights instead of just breezing through. I'm enjoying the fact that I have to plan out strategies for fights. I'm roughly 35 hours into the game, and that's about my max level at this point(which means I'm either underleveled for where I'm at in the game, or I'm just really flipping slow). But yes, parts are tedious, but I can look beyond them because I am thoroughly enjoying the game.
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Post by Plasmodium »

Originally posted by Sir Auros


I hate JRPGs with a passion, and to be honest, I kind of look down on anyone over 15 who still plays the things.


:(

I thought you loved me Auros, I thought we had something. Sniff.
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Post by Jaynz »

Originally posted by Sir Auros
That's fine. I still think anime and those games are stupid as hell, but if you like grinding through the same hackneyed, Japanese-style-backasswards plots, go for it.


As opposed to the same hackneyed, American/Canadian-style-backasswards plots?

But, you know, instinctually hating EVERYTHING that comes out out a nation just because it comes out of that nation... hmm.. I think there's a word for that...
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Post by Plasmodium »

Originally posted by TFVanguard
As opposed to the same hackneyed, American/Canadian-style-backasswards plots?

But, you know, instinctually hating EVERYTHING that comes out out a nation just because it comes out of that nation... hmm.. I think there's a word for that...


Hes sorta right though. The majority of JRPGS are the same crap. The stories are like typical anime. Most of it is pretty poor. There have only been a few that have done story well in my eyes. Though there is usually always one thing to look forward to when a new JRPG comes out, thats right, the delicious h-doujins.
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Civ
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Post by Civ »

JRPGs? Never heard the term before.
Originally posted by Sir Auros
I hate JRPGs with a passion, and to be honest, I kind of look down on anyone over 15 who still plays the things.
I wonder -- did this come about, at least partially, due to the Final Fantasy fanboys I've heard about or is it just the plots?
Originally posted by Plasmodium
Its just a way to create more gameplay hours.
If that's the reason the developers did that, then I find that sad. Quality over quantity anyday of the week for me.
Have fun dodging lightning bolts for an hour, and avoiding butterflies!
Oh joy...
What really bothers me is missable items. You know, those things where no normal person other than the developer would be able to find without the help of a guide.


Yes! Where you can search for several minutes and not find it unless you look in a place that you can't see easily from your vantage point and for some reason, you can't get a 1st-person view. Especially true, when they hide crap behind a pillar.
Originally posted by AngelOfDeath124
I can understand people's frustration with tedium in JRPGs...I've had problems finishing some of them simply because it got to the point where I'm just so tired of running around the same area trying to level/find a specific item/beat a specific boss that I just hung the game up for a while.
That's eventually what happened with me and FF8. I just couldn't stand it anymore -- it wasn't fun for me. I think I got to the part where I got to Ultimecia's dimension and just stopped. I ceased caring. I was tired of having to "draw" all of the damn magic since it was repetitive, irritating, and it felt stagnant to me. Also that I thought the characters are wimps without their guardians. They were too dependent upon that and their magic where if I dare used any, it could potentially screw up the character.

I basically stopped playing it and never went back. I eventually just threw the damn game out.
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Post by Plasmodium »

At least in Shadow Hearts all the items were always in corners and places you couldnt see, so you always searched there. Its like while the chars are talking your thinking, oh man theres totally something in that dresser, and then you search there and there is. Thats sorta crap though because youre thinking, I better search this room before I leave or do anything else or I might miss something important.
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Post by Sir Auros »

Originally posted by TFVanguard
As opposed to the same hackneyed, American/Canadian-style-backasswards plots?

But, you know, instinctually hating EVERYTHING that comes out out a nation just because it comes out of that nation... hmm.. I think there's a word for that...


1 - Most RPGs coming out of North America actually have good storytelling.

2 - Localization and translation for most JRPGs has always been, and still is awful even if you ignore every plot being almost identical.

Also, how the hell is it racist or nationalist or whatever dumbass point you're trying to make to hate a certain style of game?
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