The Descent [no spoilers - yet] / Altered Endings

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Halfshell
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The Descent [no spoilers - yet] / Altered Endings

Post by Halfshell »

Right, now I've known for a while that this film was being released in North America this month... what I've just found out, however, is that they've gone and changed the ending for the NA release.

Now, when I first saw the film, one of the [many] things I absolutely loved about it was the ending. If what I've read about the change is true, then it drastically alters the actual tone of how the film finishes. It completely changes what, to me, the story is.

Which got me thinking - first off, about who here has seen both endings, and which they prefer. And secondly, what people think about studio-altered endings to films in general.

Is it acceptable for the bigwigs to tinker with the story in an attempt to send people home happy? Or should they let the story be presented as originally intended and let it live and die on its own merits?

I think the latter, but am willing to hear a counterpoint...
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Post by Clay »

They've altered the ending to a film that's already seen a theatrical release?

I didn't know they could/would do that... (George Lucas aside...)

I know filmmakers will screen a rough cut of a movie for a test audience to see what the reactions are and then make changes based on that, but not that they would alter a film that's already on the market.

A bit odd, that...
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Post by Halfshell »

Film saw UK release in July last year. It's not so much "new ending" as "finishes early". In so much as they've dropped the final plot twist... I'm presuming it's to give it an "up" end, but just pisses me off from an artistic viewpoint...
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Post by Denyer »

Originally posted by Brendocon
what people think about studio-altered endings to films in general.
Depends entirely on the result. Blade Runner and the director's cut are two totally different films, each with their own merits. I prefer the "Hail to the king!" version of Army of Darkness to the one where Ash ends up in a pastiche apocalypse.

Donnie Darko I found pretty meh either way. It got acclaimed for having an IQ at a time films generally didn't, rather than been whizz-bang spectacular.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Well, I've yet to (knowingly) see an example of a film with an altered ending which hasn't been terrible (even if some, like Blade Runner, have little between them. I don't think I can express how utterly over-rated Blade Runner is...)... I saw the studio's wanted ending for the superb Brazil a while back, and it was nonsensical. As a counterpart, I don't really think there's anything wrong with altering endings in theory - some films do need better endings (but whether studio execs are capable of improving them, or do so in the right way, or for the right reason, are totally different things). I think after the Brazil/Blade Runner debacles a lot of people get wound up by the idea without considering whether it is an improvement or not. Some films do take a twist too many (I'm struggling to remember the one I'm thinking of, but there was some post-Usual Suspects knock-off that I'd have loved but for one twist too many - and if it had ended five minutes early I'd have been happier... damn, it's going to bug me what that was now).

Directors often damage their own films - take Leon for example. The original cinema/video edit was the only decent film Luc Besson's ever managed. They let him to a director's cut, and it's full of the usual over-indulgent flashiness, with a side helping of paedophilia. I can't watch the original edit now, because I know what's "happening" between frames and the like.

In the case you mention, though, it makes little sense. I dunno, it's basically an edited version of the film - the full ending already exists, it's just a certain market is only getting part of the story, which seems a little pointless - that something like that is cut is going to be all over newspapers and the like in any reviews, and I don't see what they're actually trying to acheive...
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Post by Halfshell »

It's like that horribly overdubbed bit at the end of the GI Joe movie. "Hey! It's alright! That guy isn't dead after all! Whoooo!"

It just stinks "oh no - we need a happy ending yay" cop-out.

At least you can clearly see Val Kilmer breathing in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. And they took the piss out of it.

Bonus points go to Return of the King for not being able to decide which ending to use, so just shoving all of them on there.

[EDIT] and anybody attempting to mention Clue! gets bitchslapped - it was the whole point.

[EDIT again] Dodgeball. That's a great example of a studio deciding to change the ending and pissing over the entire point of the story. It also renders the title's byline utterly redundant.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Originally posted by Brendocon
It's like that horribly overdubbed bit at the end of the GI Joe movie. "Hey! It's alright! That guy isn't dead after all! Whoooo!"

It just stinks "oh no - we need a happy ending yay" cop-out.


The difference with that, though, is that it wasn't something trumpeted at the time of release, and there probably weren't many places for it to be trumpeted anyway... I mean, tacky as it seems, how many people really questionned that ending before finding out the truth years later?

Whereas with this... that's going to be all over the internet and mentioned in every review of the thing now, and a lot of people are going to be aware of it, and probably either not want to see an incomplete movie, or be fully briefed about the missing ending before seeing the thing... I just don't really see what the studio was hoping to acheive...
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Post by Halfshell »

Yeah, that was my main concern. The Duke thing was just me trying to cite a random example of "oh look - not really dead!".

I know most people who go to see horror films are geeks who'll be aware of it, but there's always going to be a lot of people who aren't exposed to the net, and skip reviews so to be spoilerproofed. I know I tend to do that a lot.

It's just daft, really. The extra scene will probably even be on the DVD... I can buy them doing that if it's cut before the actual release, because it would be a bonus feature of "this is something we played with" but a year down the line is basically saying "this is the original ending... uhm... don't really know why we didn't show you it before... to make you buy this?"
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Post by Denyer »

Apparently the US version of Highlander is significantly shorter... anyone know anything about that?
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Originally posted by Denyer
Apparently the US version of Highlander is significantly shorter... anyone know anything about that?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Highlander_%28film%29

No idea why - timing reasons are a likely.

Best US hackjob is probably still the best ganster film of all time, Once Upon a Time from America, which was edited down from four hours to two. A couple of years ago I actually saw a tape of the US edit, and absolutely nothing makes sense...
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Post by Denyer »

re: Highlander, that's what I'd heard -- that the whole "whatever you say Jack, you're the master race" bit got trimmed... shame, really. One of my favourite bits, and it's also a tie-in to the soundtrack...
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Originally posted by Brendocon
[EDIT] and anybody attempting to mention Clue! gets bitchslapped - it was the whole point.


Which version of Clue was the point? The original American theatrical release where you got one, randomly chossen ending depending on what cinima you saw it in? Or the British/VHS/DVD version where the endings all follow each other with the "This is what could have happened..." caption cards? A change that was dictated for the UK release after the film tanked in the states...

My favorite "alternate version" film is Dia Another Day- Depending on if you see it in the UK or US Bond uses a different product placement electric razor.

Oh, and the directors cuts of Aliens and Alien 3 are essential in a way the ones of Alien and Alien Ressurection aren't.
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Post by Halfshell »

Originally posted by inflatable dalek
Which version of Clue was the point? The original American theatrical release where you got one, randomly chossen ending depending on what cinima you saw it in?


That's the bugger.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Hopefully the DVD reinstates that idea with some sort of "Random ending generator" extra feature.
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Post by Halfshell »

inflatable dalek wrote:Oh, and the directors cuts of Aliens and Alien 3 are essential in a way the ones of Alien and Alien Ressurection aren't.
I didn't realise until I watched it this week that I'd never actually seen the theatrical cut of Aliens... the only version I'd ever seen was the SE, which made watching the regular version thinking it was what I'd normally watched a very surreal experience. "Wait... what about the scene where... or did I imagine that? Was that only in the novelisation? What's going on???"

What? Right, yes - reason for the bump.

The Descent 2.

Mooted for a while. Along with great confusion as to a "uhm... y'what?" in regards to the whole existence.

But now clarified:
http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=22736

They're picking up from the US ending.

****ing profiteering bastards. Hack the ending up, give it a beat of optimism and relief, strip all the ****ing despair and ambiguity and awesomeness out of it... then use the new ending as a springboard to franchiseville?

**** right off. And die.

For those of you who still haven't seen The Descent, and want to know exactly what my ****ing problem with the whole thing is...
SPOILER! (select to read)
Basic gist (some exact details may be off):

It's a caving expedition gone wrong. Monsters underground. Everybody dies bar one, who chances on a tunnel out to the surface and makes a heroic climb for freedom. Rushes to the car, sits down and relaxes.

Cuts back to her still in the cave, pretty much catatonic, clearly having imagined her glorious escape. Sat where she was when she found the tunnel - which clearly isn't there. With the monsters closing in. She's not getting out. End film.

US release ends before the reveal that her miraculous escape was just fantasy. Thus killing the whole vibe of "well, yeah... you probably would be ****ed wouldn't you? Nice to see they didn't cop out and give us another typical Hollywood against-all-odds triumph ending".
:(
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Halfshell wrote:I didn't realise until I watched it this week that I'd never actually seen the theatrical cut of Aliens... the only version I'd ever seen was the SE, which made watching the regular version thinking it was what I'd normally watched a very surreal experience. "Wait... what about the scene where... or did I imagine that? Was that only in the novelisation? What's going on???"

Now you mention it, I don't think I have either (I think Cameron's pretty much tried to bury it hasn't he?). Whilst I can understand some of the criticism it gets in terms of wasting to much time with the Captain Hollister stuff, it's nice to have things like the explanation for the Aliens coming through the celling in there.


Apparently there are crazy people out there who think the dodgy voiceover/silly happy ending version of Blade Runner is better...
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