Timothy Dalton

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Halfshell
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Timothy Dalton

Post by Halfshell »

Isn't he just a brilliant Bond? I mean how does he get so much flak? Because he's not Roger Moore?

All I can say is that, having sat through seven films in a week that have the exact same plot (okay, possibly exception of For Your Eyes Only, but it has that wank bit with Thatcher at the end which completely undermines the preceding two hours of decency, so it by no means gets off the hook), Not Being Roger Moore should earn people a knighthood.

I mean he spends the first few standing about like a block of wood, flailing unconvincingly, smirking, raising his eyebrows and dropping one-liners that wouldn't make a ****ing Carry On... film. Then, when he finally relaxes into the role, he looks like your grandad. And he's a sex pest.

Then Dalton comes in... somebody with a range that extends beyond standing about... and gets widely regarded as being awful.

Can you really see Moore throwing himself about like Dalton does in those films? Or, you know, being able to actually convey the type of emotion needed? Of course not - all Moore ever does is stand about like a confused uncle who's trying to find the bar. He's like Prince Philip without the engaging wit... the main difference being we're not expected to believe that supermodels fall into bed with ol' Phil within seconds of meeting him.

Live and Let Die? Yes, it's awesome watching him dynamically stand about whilst surrounded by crocodiles. And the dull boat chase that takes up nine hours of the runtime.

The Spy Who Loved Me? Kill me now.

And Jaws! How rubbish is Jaws? He's built like a ****ing mountain, seemingly indestructable... and the best way he has of killing people is to bite them. To the extent that he passes up opportunities to do sensible things like choke them or throw them off trains... because he wants to bite them. ****'s sake.

View to a Kill? Oh. My. God. Yeah, I really wanted to see an 80 year old man getting it on with Grace Jones. Not even Chris Walken can save it.

Moonraker? The gondola that turns into a hovercraft? Pigeons doing double takes? Moonraker is inexcusable. Plus the guy's got, like, no edge. Timothy Dalton had edge.

And let's face it - The Living Daylights is ****ing awesome.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Dalton's 'problem' was always that he was an actor and thought of Bond as he would any other part, putting things like method and talent into his performance, rather than being a tuxedo'd one-liner machine. Bond's a bastard, and Dalton was the only one really capable of bringing that across.
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Post by TSFC »

Timothy Dalton is one the best damned Bonds...period.

The Living Daylights was one of the better Bond films. A good storyline, gorgeous locations, (same goes for the Bond women. :D)

License To Kill was the first Bond film to be rated PG-13 (and deservedly so)...and it really shows how much range the character of Bond really has.

Had it been anyone else in the role for LTK...I think it would've failed miserably.

Now, granted it did do terrible at the box office, but real world problems were too much for people to deal with, and they were used to Moore's Bond and his foppish portrayal.

It's a shame though, LTK's Bond is how he's supposed to be.

Daniel Craig...he's filling the shoes nicely though...I'd say he's an excellent runner up to Dalton.
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Post by Sixswitch »

Yes I agree. Hot Fuzz is awesome.

But with regards to Bond, I also agree. I thought the two films he did stood out from the others by a mile. Really good to see some actual emotion from the character.

That's not to say that jokey one-liner Bond was bad as such. In fact, they're good fun as films go, but the Dalton ones were better.

-Ss
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Post by Jaynz »

Dalton had a great run for his two movies. But, yes, he was rejected because he wasn't Roger Moore and because his movies were more serious in tone. (I remember the reviews when they came out, oy...)

What's funny is that Moore could be damn good as Bond when allowed to. "Man with the Golden Gun", aside from the McGuffin, was a pretty straight-up Bond story and he worked well in it. "For Your Eyes Only" was also pretty solid.

But, you know, you get Moonraker...

I'm not really sold on Craig yet, largely because he didn't show the wit and charm for Bond (granted, we're dealing with a part of Bond's career before he developed it). There's some hint of it, but I think they went a smidge too far making Bond 'edgy' and JUST 'edgy' ... the character didn't show a lot of versatility, so the actor didn't get a fair chance to.
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Post by slartibartfast »

umph, I couldn't just pass through this thread without posting anything.


The high guru of causality confirms that everyone here is indeed correct. May St. Craig be a worthy flame bearer of St. Daltons' legacy.
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Post by Jetfire »

OOOOOOOOOLD NEWS!

http://tfarchive.com/community/showthre ... ght=dalton

Jetfire, thinking years ahead of Brendocon


Ignores Cliffy's age old championing of Dalton's Bond. YEAH
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Post by Zisteau »

He was better in Flash Gordon.
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Post by TSFC »

Originally posted by Zisteau
He was better in Flash Gordon.


But...but...but...


No.

No one was good in Flash Gordon. (I still can't believe they're serious about remaking it...)
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Only For Your Eyes Only is inexcusibly bad as far as the Moore films go (forget A View To A Kill being a waste of Christopher Walken, Jullian Glover- who should have been the best Bond baddy of all- is completely throwaway in it). And anyone who doesn't like The Spy Who Loved Me is a mook.

The Living Daylights is indeed a fine film, but does have a slightly tired and old fashioned feel to it, and the portrayal of what's effectively the Taliban as nobel Oxford educated freedom fighters feerlessly opposing the evil Russians has dated it even more.

LTK is risible rubish though, and doesn't even have the main saving grace of most bad Bond films in that the women are minging (Thunderball, FRWL and FYEO all at least have babes). It wants to be a adult, gritty drama but end with a winking fish statue. Says it all.

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Post by Halfshell »

Originally posted by inflatable dalek
Only For Your Eyes Only is inexcusibly bad as far as the Moore films go
Wrong wrong wrong. It's the best of the bunch. And it's actually almost quality if you ignore the pre-credits sequence and turn off before the stupid telephone conversation at the end, They went to the trouble of thinking up an actual plot for one thing, and it at least eschews the [otherwise unignorable] Moore formula by having them go for a swim at the end rather than a shag.

Moonraker is abysmal on every level. You're seriously telling me you prefer it to For Your Eyes Only? You're insane.
And anyone who doesn't like The Spy Who Loved Me is a mook.
It's rubbish. Moore's outacted by the bloody parachute in the opening sequence. Jaws is one of the most ridiculous baddies ever. At least The Man With The Golden Gun has Christopher Lee in it, even if he's so hammy that Jewish people should avoid it.
and the portrayal of what's effectively the Taliban as nobel Oxford educated freedom fighters feerlessly opposing the evil Russians has dated it even more.
Yes, because the fact that one person is English means that they all are.
LTK is risible rubish though
See? Now why would we listen to somebody who can't even spell rubbish? The winking statue is naff, yes, but it's far better than a winking Roger Moore. Or a pigeon doing a double take. And hey, it's got actual emotion to it. There's depth to the character for the first real time since OHMSS.

And you're insane, as Crime Boss's girlfriend was unbelievably hot. You're just used to Kiddy women - if they've not been wacked with a frying pan, they're just not worth it.

Fortunately for the rest of us, you've completely undermined all credibility by implying that Moonraker is better than The Moore Film That Actually Goes to the Trouble of a Plot.
EDIT: How do the Ultimate Editions (tm) stand compare to the Bog Standard Editions Brend?


No clue. In most instances, this run through is the first time I've seen them in about ten years.

I'll tell you one thing, though - watching all of them in order in the space of a fortnight is an absolutely fascinating experience.

"Hang on, which one of these is M? Neither of them is Bernard Lee... is one of them the defence minister or whatever? Oh, I don't care."
"For god's sake, Jaws - just break the bitch's neck!"
"Moneypenny looks like my grandmother"
"Waxwork Moore is slowly melting..."
"Hang on... they put the tracker in the real Fabergé Egg... this plot makes no sense... and gives a new meaning to casual racism."
"Don't go to bed with him! He's old enough to be your great grandad!"

Dalton was blessed relief and the first three Brosnans a breath of fresh air. Tim could take Danny Craig no hassle.
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Post by Jetfire »

I rather like many of Moores films. They are like Bond parodies to some degree carried by Moore's great sense of humour. For your eyes only and Live and Let die are the best of the "Serious" moore entries but The Spy WHo Loved me is genius.

Now don't get me wrong, if they were making more silly camp Moore like films I'd be cross (Die another day anybody?). But as previous entries for the odd saturday afternoon movie they are brilliant entertainment and loads of fun.
Moonraker included. Come on you, all laugh at the "attempting re-entry" line at the end and Jaws is brilliant.
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Post by inflatable dalek »

Originally posted by Brendocon
Wrong wrong wrong. It's the best of the bunch. And it's actually almost quality if you ignore the pre-credits sequence and turn off before the stupid telephone conversation at the end, They went to the trouble of thinking up an actual plot for one thing, and it at least eschews the [otherwise unignorable] Moore formula by having them go for a swim at the end rather than a shag.
What on Earth do you think they were going to get up to whilst having their swim? The best bit about the film is Roger Moore's performance as a older, world weary Bond. The bit at Tracey's grave and his response to the helicopter pilot ("It's important" "It always is") is the best moment of the film. Yes, the film has a plot, but it's just two slight Fleming short stories shoved together with lashing of dodgy 80's fahsion and music, a tired snow chase (at least The World Is Not Enough adds the parahawks to spice things up a bit) and the least interesting baddy of the entire franchise.
Then the attempts to make a "serious" film are undone by the bad comedy skit moments that might have worked in a more light hearted Bond but stick out badly here (as well as the horrid death of Blofeld and Thatcher, you've got daftness like the extreme burglar alarm on the Lotus...)
Moonraker is abysmal on every level. You're seriously telling me you prefer it to For Your Eyes Only? You're insane.
Whilst I can't argue the insane thing, and it's not as good as Spy, ways in which Moonraker is not abysmal:

Fantastic model work that's actually more convincing that the stuff in Goldeneye.
A top draw performance from the guy playing Hugo, magnetic and charasmatic without going over the top.
The bit where the girl gets ripped appart by the dogs.
The name Holly Goodhead (Fleming would have loved that).
A fantastic John Barry Score.

It does however have the worst product placement of any Bond film in the bit where the ambulance drives past honking big adverts for several brands that show up elsewhere in the film.
It's rubbish. Moore's outacted by the bloody parachute in the opening sequence. Jaws is one of the most ridiculous baddies ever.
No more silly than a mute Korean who throws a hat. Stomberg's a bit dull and the shameless riffing of the You Only Live Twice plot is the first real example of the franchise feeding on itself (to the point where even a couple of shots are repeated exactly from the earlier film) and the legal removal of SPECTRE from the script leaves it a little odd as to why the baddy thinks he needs to kill everyone to set up his undersea kingdom, but it has Barbara Bach, well executed stunts, Caroline Munroe, snappy dialouge and a mostly logical plot thought out plot, the adition of useful new regulars in Gogol and Fredrick Grey, Barbara Bach, the brilliant exuberance of the submersible Lotus, and the best end line of any Bond film.
At least The Man With The Golden Gun has Christopher Lee in it, even if he's so hammy that Jewish people should avoid it.
It's a definate improvement on the book (Where James Bond saves the world's sugar).
Yes, because the fact that one person is English means that they all are.
I didn't say he was English, just English educated. And wherever the rest of them went to school the fact they're portrayed as Jolly decent oprresssed chaps who are at worse slightly naughty scamps dates it (and as for other things that date it, even the characters have to admitt that SMERSH was shut down in the 50's...)


There's depth to the character for the first real time since OHMSS.
It's all one note depth though, he's angry, snarly and generally pissed off to the point where he bitch slaps Q (who despite being comic relife gets all the best lines, the bit where he checks the beds for softness before picking the best for himself is priceless).
And the film completely buggers up its attempts to be dark and gritty with the forced happy ending. Bond gets his job back despite assaulting M, getting a lot of Hong Kong agents killed and causing lots of death and destruction when MI6 had allready set a deal in place that would have brought Sanchez in without so much fuss. Felix has gotten over the rape and murder of his wife, not to mention the loss of a arm and leg, and apparently the fact that a corrupt and easily bribed President has set up with a drug barrons crack whore to run a unstable country is apparently a good thing.

you're insane, as Crime Boss's girlfriend was unbelievably hot.
Far to wet whinney and irritating for my tastes I'm afraid.


"Hang on, which one of these is M? Neither of them is Bernard Lee... is one of them the defence minister or whatever? Oh, I don't care."
Lee actually died right before filming started on FYEO, that's why it seems a bit confusing as to who's in charge, his lines were split between a Fredrick Grey, Q and that one off chap (who might be ment to be Bill Tanner- I know he's in one of the pre- Goldeneye films but can't remember which).

they put the tracker in the real Fabergé Egg... this plot makes no sense... and gives a new meaning to casual racism."
Watch Kamal's face when the egg is smatched, he knew it was the real one despite his attempt to bluff it wasn't. I agree though that "This'll keep you in Curry" is a strong contender for the most racist bit of any Bond film.

"Don't go to bed with him! He's old enough to be your great grandad!"
The Grace Jones shag actually just beats fat Riker getting jiggy with Troi in Star Trek Nemesis as the scariest cimema sex scene ever.

Dalton was blessed relief and the first three Brosnans a breath of fresh air. Tim could take Danny Craig no hassle.


Brosnan is still my favourite in the role and probably the best all rounder (though the boy Craig made a impressive debut, it'll be interesting to see how he does in a more typical Bond film).

I'd say the advantage Craig has over Dalton is that he looks like he's enjoying it and having a good time (well, when not getting ball beaten that is). That's a vital part of the character, Bond was created as Fleming's fantasy outlet, the guy who could do all things he couldn't now he was getting married and settling down (and I'd love to know what Mrs. Fleming thought about the fact that the girl her husbands alter-ego wants to marry in Casino Royale turns out to be teh evil and commit suicide. Same for book Bonds two other ill faited marriages...).
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Post by Jetfire »

Bond had two wife's?

I know about Tracey but who was the other?

I know he had a kid by Kissy Suzuki who Bond may or may not know about but not another wife.
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Post by Zisteau »

Originally posted by TSFC
But...but...but...


No.

No one was good in Flash Gordon. (I still can't believe they're serious about remaking it...)


You're wrong. Any flick with Max von Sydow as the villain is solid gold.
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Post by Halfshell »

Originally posted by inflatable dalek
No more silly than a mute Korean who throws a hat


Lots sillier.

On the one hand we have somebody who has a razor sharp projectile weapon hidden amongst their regular clothing, enabling them to quickly and efficiently despatch their adversaries from a safe distance.

And on the other we have a man who can, judging by all the evidence, choke a bear to death, but who insists on biting people on the neck. In order to do this, he needs to get within a range where it would be a lot quicker and more sensible to just punch them in the face.

Jaws is big, strong, powerful... seemingly invulnerable... yet undermines everything he's got going for him by not actually using any of this to his actual advantage, relying instead of biting people when it would have made more sense just to kill them.

Case in point: the bit with token bird in the alleyway during the carnival. If he'd just snapped her neck on the spot, it would have made more sense. But no, he uses all that strength to hold her motionless whilst he... ever... so... slowly... tries... to... eat... her... throat.

Rubbish!
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Post by Zudo Bug »

For Your Eyes Only was one of the best Bond films ever made. The film also has one of the best best looking Bond girls in it.

What some people fail to realise is that all of the actors who played Bond played him in the only way they knew how to. Timothy Dalton was a stage actor and played Bond as Ian Fleming portrayed him in the books. Roger Moore was more of a comic actor and so he played him with a bit of humour. The same can be said of Daniel Craig as he usually only plays tough guys in his movies. Dalton isn't the worst Bond ever - that has to go to George Lazenby who spent most of his only film standing around posing.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Well, we'd better let Moore off acting badly, as it would seem his only experience is being a bad actor (though he's actually several times better in Wild Geese than he ever was in Bond...). That Jose Delbo - don't knock his art, it's only bad because he's bad at art...
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Post by Jaynz »

Moore was incredibly good in 'The Saint', which is why he was chosen to be Bond in the first place. The bigger problem with the Bond franchise in the 1970s was... it was the 1970s.
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Post by Cliffjumper »

Moore could be good in the Saint, especially early on, but by the middle of the run was blatantly phoning it in (and he was generally better in his earlier Bonds, too). He was a better Saint in The Persuaders! (the 2nd best ITC sun & scuffles show, behind the genuinely excellent Danger Man), oddly enough...
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